North Korea "Sunk" South Korean Battleship

[Sylar]

An international report has confirmed suspicions that a North Korean submarine torpedo sunk a South Korean battleship, killing all 46 sailors on board.

BBC Story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia_pacific/10129703.stm)

North Korea claim this is a "fabrication" and will respond with war if they face sanctions.

Troubled waters ahead...

[hibsdaft]

Troubled waters ahead...

troubled waters already by the sounds of it :wink:

[hibsbollah]

If I was Iran reading that report I would get nuclear weapons damn quick. North Korea would have been toast years ago if it didnt have a 'deterrent'.

[--------]

troubled waters already by the sounds of it :wink:
A spokesman for the DPRK National Defence Commission issued a statement repudiated the claim, stating that the South Korean "group of traitors had far-fetchedly tried to link the case with us without offering any material evidence. It finally announced the results of the joint investigation based on a sheer fabrication, which assert that the warship was sunken by our torpedo attack, in a bid to mislead the public opinion inside and outside Korea....


What is evident is that the sinking of warship 'Cheonan' can never be construed otherwise than a 'conspiratorial farce' and 'charade' orchestrated by the group of traitors in a deliberate and brigandish manner to achieve certain political and military aims because only 46 soldiers met miserable deaths while officers survived the case."


North Korea further warned that "It is our invariable iron will to react to "retaliation" with more powerful retaliation and to "punishment" with indiscriminate punishment of our style. Availing ourselves of this opportunity, we sternly warn the U.S. and Japanese authorities and riff-raffs, their poor lackeys, to act with discretion."


Nice to see the DPRK responding with their customary moderation and restraint....

[khib70]

If I was Iran reading that report I would get nuclear weapons damn quick. North Korea would have been toast years ago if it didnt have a 'deterrent'.
:confused:Not quite getting you here? Are you implying that an unprovoked sneak attack on a gunboat on the high seas, resulting in her going down with all hands, was justified in any way?

And are you yet another of those people who thinks its absolutely fine for everyone in the world, however wacky or despotic. to have a nuclear arsenal, as long as we don't have one?

Not a dig, genuine enquiry. Don't see your point

[hibsbollah]

:confused:Not quite getting you here? Are you implying that an unprovoked sneak attack on a gunboat on the high seas, resulting in her going down with all hands, was justified in any way?

And are you yet another of those people who thinks its absolutely fine for everyone in the world, however wacky or despotic. to have a nuclear arsenal, as long as we don't have one?

Not a dig, genuine enquiry. Don't see your point

My two points are that a)North Korea would be toast by now if they didnt have nuclear weapons and that b) other non-nuclear countries that are currently being threatened with invasion have probably noticed this as well.

I'm lucky enough to have visited the DMZ and I know a bit about the area. And no, im not a fan of North Korea:greengrin

[RyeSloan]

If I was Iran reading that report I would get nuclear weapons damn quick. North Korea would have been toast years ago if it didnt have a 'deterrent'.

Not entirely true...the fact is that North Koreas CONVENTIONAL weapons are the biggest threat...their nuclear threat is still theoretical as they have never proven they have the ability to create a nuclear missile. However the damage they could cause on Seol and the South population before any military victory could be won would be massive and this is the real reason (and of course indirect Chinese support) that they are not 'toast' already, nothing to do with their alleged nuclear detterent at all.

[hibsbollah]

Not entirely true...the fact is that North Koreas CONVENTIONAL weapons are the biggest threat...their nuclear threat is still theoretical as they have never proven they have the ability to create a nuclear missile. However the damage they could cause on Seol and the South population before any military victory could be won would be massive and this is the real reason (and of course indirect Chinese support) that they are not 'toast' already, nothing to do with their alleged nuclear detterent at all.

Well if you want to be pedantic:greengrin....

'their enormous military might including their possible/probable nuclear delivery capability'...

is the reason they're not toast.

[JE89]

Strangely enough I have been reading up on the Korean War as part of the Cold War for an exam next week and was thinking to myself that it is a matter of time before the North try to 'regain' the South. The fact he withdrew from the armistace that created the demiliterized zone after the Korean war, last year highlights his intentions.
As long as Kim Jong-il is in power there will be trouble. He is mental just like his father. It also looks like his son will take the realms when he is gone.

[Phil D. Rolls]

:confused:Not quite getting you here? Are you implying that an unprovoked sneak attack on a gunboat on the high seas, resulting in her going down with all hands, was justified in any way?

And are you yet another of those people who thinks its absolutely fine for everyone in the world, however wacky or despotic. to have a nuclear arsenal, as long as we don't have one?

Not a dig, genuine enquiry. Don't see your point

Ask Mrs Thatcher.

[Ryan91]

The North Koreans are wacky, the have nuclear weapons most likely but the ones that hey have tested have had very low yields, less than that of the type dropped on Hiroshima, they do not however have reliable missile technology with which to deliver them, I think that although China is friendly with the North, if they invade the South, they will probably cut all ties with them or urge a diplomatic solution.

[ginger_rice]

The North Koreans are wacky, the have nuclear weapons most likely but the ones that hey have tested have had very low yields, less than that of the type dropped on Hiroshima, they do not however have reliable missile technology with which to deliver them, I think that although China is friendly with the North, if they invade the South, they will probably cut all ties with them or urge a diplomatic solution.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here, and agree that China are the key here.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Sino-Korean relations aren't nearly as straight forward as people seem to think.

Since North Korea's first daliance with nuclear weapons in 2006 Japan has undergone a reactive process of massive U.S.-backed remilitarisation. Unsurprisingly, China is pretty unhappy about this; to the extent that it whole-heartedly supported the U.N. resolution imposing sanctions on the DPRK.

China's only real concerns are that the N. Korean regime doesn't fall as that would; deny them a buffer zone to the South, deny Chinese capital what is effectively a client state which places no restrictions on them whatsoever and provides low-cost labour in abundance and lead to a massive influx of Korean immigrants into China.

[Leicester Fan]

Does China really need anymore abundant, low cost labour?

[LiverpoolHibs]

Does China really need anymore abundant, low cost labour?

Yup. Chinese wages are considerably higher than those in North Korea anyway and that coupled with the fact that the boom in the Chinese economy created high employment levels which in turn has in turn led to demand for further wage increases means that Chinese capital (as all capital does) has found somewhere else to invest its surplus where profits will be higher.

[Leicester Fan]

Yup. Chinese wages are considerably higher than those in North Korea anyway and that coupled with the fact that the boom in the Chinese economy created high employment levels which in turn has in turn led to demand for further wage increases means that Chinese capital (as all capital does) has found somewhere else to invest its surplus where profits will be higher.

I find it hard to believe that China would ever have such a shortage of labour to force wages higher.

Anyhoo. It certainly isn't in China's interest to have a war (possibly nuclear) on their doorstep, especially with 2 of it's biggest markets , Japan and the USA, likely to be drawn in.

[khib70]

My two points are that a)North Korea would be toast by now if they didnt have nuclear weapons and that b) other non-nuclear countries that are currently being threatened with invasion have probably noticed this as well.

I'm lucky enough to have visited the DMZ and I know a bit about the area. And no, im not a fan of North Korea:greengrin
It does the heart good to see someone of your political leanings endorsing the value of an independent nuclear deterrent:wink:

[Hainan Hibs]

I think the potential for a mass movement of immigrants over the border in the event of a complete collapse of the North Korean economy is the reason why China prefers the status quo, it does not want to deal with thousands of immigrants from North Korea. Any Korean able to get over the border but found out is sent straight back and faces execution.

South Korea has taken the strongest action it could without military action, by withdrawing all trade. This will hurt North Korea but the real damage would be done if China withdrew it's support which makes up about 35% of North Korea's GDP.

The South and the USA are going all out with propoganda now, sending in balloons with messages taped on them, blasting out radio messages over the border, and sending in mobiles to try to get messages across. They may be hoping for some sort of uprising in the North but after watching some documentaries I don't think it is very likely because of the control Kim Jong Il has.

The only way to get North Korea to back down is by China withdrawing it's support, but that would mean severe economic trouble in the North which would mean even more North Koreans trying to get into China which they do not want., which is why they will try to keep the status quo.

I also don't think either side wants a full return to war (technically the war is still on). The South has far superior technology and finance, however the North does have missiles ready which could do serious damage to Seoul within a short period of time.

[hibsbollah]

It does the heart good to see someone of your political leanings endorsing the value of an independent nuclear deterrent:wink:

:greengrin
The UK Government must look at Pyongyang with envy. At least the Koreans dont have to borrow the yankee imperialist's deterrent and had the foresight to get their own. They showed real 'entrepreneurialism' there:wink:

[Chuckie]

Here come the warmongers..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia_pacific/10160204.stm

[Leicester Fan]

Here come the warmongers..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia_pacific/10160204.stm
Personally, calling for a world response seems a bit less warmongery to me than torpedoing a battleship. Maybe that's just me though.

[Chuckie]

Personally, calling for a world response seems a bit less warmongery to me than torpedoing a battleship. Maybe that's just me though.


Hillary is choking to get in to the North Koreans.

[Leicester Fan]

There's no way the yanks want to get involved with N Korea. Not only do they have a huge army and possible nukes they also have China backing them up. If America want to do anything it's to get the rest of the world to pressure China into doing something about it's neighbour.

[Woody1985]

There's no way the yanks want to get involved with N Korea. Not only do they have a huge army and possible nukes they also have China backing them up. If America want to do anything it's to get the rest of the world to pressure China into doing something about it's neighbour.

And that's exactly why China will let NK do what they want, just to string the American's along. Much in the same way that them and Russia do with the Iran nuclear issue.

[Chuckie]

There's no way the yanks want to get involved with N Korea. Not only do they have a huge army and possible nukes they also have China backing them up. If America want to do anything it's to get the rest of the world to pressure China into doing something about it's neighbour.

Maybe the 'rest of the world' should firstly 'respond' to America's war crimes in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. You know, stuff like indiscriminate bombing of rural villages etc, before butting in on internal affairs on the Korean peninsula.

Maybe that's just me though.