PDA

View Full Version : Goalkeepers again!



Bayern Bru
06-05-2010, 12:34 PM
Just some stats for consideration regarding our keepers this season.

Yves Ma-Kalambay: Played 7, conceded 7.
5 wins, 1 draw, 1 defeat (all competitions).

Graeme Smith: Played 14, conceded 27.
5 wins, 3 draws and 6 defeats (all competitions).

Graham Stack: Played 22, conceded 29.
7 wins, 6 draws and 9 defeats (all competitions).

All of them were in goal when Hibs had a relatively good run of form. I honestly think Hibs have suffered by not being able to stick to a regular keeper. I understand injuries etc., but IMO you can't just drop a keeper after he lets in 4 goals which is what happened with Maka. Too much chopping and changing disturbs the balance of the team, and how many have we won since we dropped Maka? I'm not saying it's entirely the goalkeeper's fault, but how many times have we been fuming after a match because of a goalkeeping error by Smith or Stack? I have no idea who's staying and who's going (and I'm still questioning the 'Goalkeeping school' idea) but whoever stays, there needs to be a discernible first choice keeper, and a backup.

Aubenas
06-05-2010, 12:41 PM
:top marks

The Sea-gull
06-05-2010, 12:42 PM
Just some stats for consideration regarding our keepers this season.

Yves Ma-Kalambay: Played 7, conceded 7.
5 wins, 1 draw, 1 defeat (all competitions).

Graeme Smith: Played 14, conceded 27.
5 wins, 3 draws and 6 defeats (all competitions).

Graham Stack: Played 22, conceded 29.
7 wins, 6 draws and 9 defeats (all competitions).

All of them were in goal when Hibs had a relatively good run of form. I honestly think Hibs have suffered by not being able to stick to a regular keeper. I understand injuries etc., but IMO you can't just drop a keeper after he lets in 4 goals which is what happened with Maka. Too much chopping and changing disturbs the balance of the team, and how many have we won since we dropped Maka? I'm not saying it's entirely the goalkeeper's fault, but how many times have we been fuming after a match because of a goalkeeping error by Smith or Stack? I have no idea who's staying and who's going (and I'm still questioning the 'Goalkeeping school' idea) but whoever stays, there needs to be a discernible first choice keeper, and a backup.


Agree with what you are saying but I don't think Maka was just dropped for conceding 4 goals. He has quite a bit of previous.

Bayern Bru
06-05-2010, 12:48 PM
Agree with what you are saying but I don't think Maka was just dropped for conceding 4 goals. He has quite a bit of previous.

Undoubtedly, but if Maka had previous why wasn't he dropped before the Rangers game? Was the Rangers game the final nail in his coffin? Surely that's not the way to approach these dilemmas. Pretty sure the Dundee Utd keeper wasn't dropped after letting in 7 against Rangers and he seems to have bounced back. (leaving aside the issue of 'previous' in this case).
Both Stack and Smith have shipped at least 4 goals each on at least one occasion, and it could be argued that they've got previous as well but there's just too much chopping and changing. We should be able to turn up for games and be at least 80% sure of who the keeper is going to be, but we're not.

There's just no consistency regarding why goalkeepers are dropped, and everyone says that you need to build a team from the back. We've been inconsistent and fragile at the back since Maka being axed, and I don't think it's coincidence.

M11BMO
06-05-2010, 12:53 PM
I think it's fair to say we could take Van Der Sar or Buffon to Easter Road and turn them into nervous wrecks...

Archie70
06-05-2010, 01:08 PM
[QUOTE=Leitrim Hibee;2456163]Just some stats for consideration regarding our keepers this season.

Yves Ma-Kalambay: Played 7, conceded 7.
5 wins, 1 draw, 1 defeat (all competitions).

Graeme Smith: Played 14, conceded 27.
5 wins, 3 draws and 6 defeats (all competitions).

Graham Stack: Played 22, conceded 29.
7 wins, 6 draws and 9 defeats (all competitions).

QUOTE]

So games to goals ratio its

Maka 1 per game,
Smith 1.92 per game,
Stack 1.3 per game


Points per game its

Maka 2.2
Smith 1.2
Stack 1.2

I think that's right!
Any idea how they fare when it comes to shut outs?

Bayern Bru
06-05-2010, 01:23 PM
Clean sheets

Stack: 7 clean sheets
Smith: 1 clean sheet
Maka: 3 clean sheets.

So Maka kept a clean sheet in 3 out of the 7 games he played for Hibs, which included 5 wins and only 1 loss.

Smith has 1 clean sheet from 14 games including 5 wins and 6 losses.

Stack has 7 clean sheets from 22 games including 7 wins and 9 losses.

The_Sauz
06-05-2010, 02:23 PM
Smith lost 11 goals in 2 games (5 v St Johnstone 6 v Motherwell)
The only Gk to have lost more in one game is Jim Leighton 7 v Rangers :boo hoo:

Archie70
06-05-2010, 02:41 PM
To sum up

Yves Ma-Kalambay: Played 7, conceded 7.
5 wins, 1 draw, 1 defeat (all competitions).

Graeme Smith: Played 14, conceded 27.
5 wins, 3 draws and 6 defeats (all competitions).

Graham Stack: Played 22, conceded 29.
7 wins, 6 draws and 9 defeats (all competitions).


Games to goals ratio

Maka 1 per game,
Smith 1.92 per game,
Stack 1.3 per game


Points per game

Maka 2.2
Smith 1.2
Stack 1.2

Shut outs per game

Maka: 1 clean sheet every 2.3 games
Smith: 1 clean sheet every 14 games
Stack: 1 clean sheet every 3.1 games


Lies, damn lies and statistics aside. There really only looks one obvious choice for the number 1 shirt. However, despite being the youngest, least experienced, with the best stats I think he'll be the one shown the door in the summer.
Why? because he's the one Yogi never signed!
If you think back to our last derby game last season, when they lumped high balls in he was outstanding and constantly took the pressure off. He the only one that's capable off claiming high balls instead of leaving our vertically challenged central defence to deal with it. However as Hughes stated he doesn't communicate as well with Bamba so he was dropped! Surely something that could be ironed out in training.

Hibby 2005
06-05-2010, 02:45 PM
Unfortunately for Maka, the Rangers game where we conceded 4 goals was a pivotal match and was, IMO, the start of the decline. Had we gained anything from that game I'm sure we'd have continued in good form. Maka was at fault for the crucial 3rd goal and possibly others but then Smith's display last night puts it into perspective.

Andy74
06-05-2010, 02:56 PM
To sum up

Yves Ma-Kalambay: Played 7, conceded 7.
5 wins, 1 draw, 1 defeat (all competitions).

Graeme Smith: Played 14, conceded 27.
5 wins, 3 draws and 6 defeats (all competitions).

Graham Stack: Played 22, conceded 29.
7 wins, 6 draws and 9 defeats (all competitions).


Games to goals ratio

Maka 1 per game,
Smith 1.92 per game,
Stack 1.3 per game


Points per game

Maka 2.2
Smith 1.2
Stack 1.2

Shut outs per game

Maka: 1 clean sheet every 2.3 games
Smith: 1 clean sheet every 14 games
Stack: 1 clean sheet every 3.1 games


Lies, damn lies and statistics aside. There really only looks one obvious choice for the number 1 shirt. However, despite being the youngest, least experienced, with the best stats I think he'll be the one shown the door in the summer.
Why? because he's the one Yogi never signed!
If you think back to our last derby game last season, when they lumped high balls in he was outstanding and constantly took the pressure off. He the only one that's capable off claiming high balls instead of leaving our vertically challenged central defence to deal with it. However as Hughes stated he doesn't communicate as well with Bamba so he was dropped! Surely something that could be ironed out in training.

There was a simialr thread recently but i'm afraid the stats don't really show the real story with Maka.

When Hibs are playing well he is likely to go and chuck one in and turn things around. The other keepers have all looked a bit more solid until recently with Smith!

Mak has been like that for about 3 years now though, brilliant one week shocking the next, I think hughes is looking fior that 7 out of 10 most weeks.

We will all accept the odd howler, particualry when under the cosh but not just really daft mistakes out of nothing every couple of weeks which is Maka's problem.

That said until Stack and Brown are fit I'd have Maka in on saturday and pray it's his good week.

NORTHERNHIBBY
06-05-2010, 03:03 PM
Mark Brown has not let in any goals since he signed for us......:wink:

Gettin' Auld
06-05-2010, 03:17 PM
I think it's fair to say we could take Van Der Sar or Buffon to Easter Road and turn them into nervous wrecks...
We've had quite a few buffoons in goals. :wink:

Danderhall Hibs
06-05-2010, 06:03 PM
To sum up

Yves Ma-Kalambay: Played 7, conceded 7.
5 wins, 1 draw, 1 defeat (all competitions).

Graeme Smith: Played 14, conceded 27.
5 wins, 3 draws and 6 defeats (all competitions).

Graham Stack: Played 22, conceded 29.
7 wins, 6 draws and 9 defeats (all competitions).


Games to goals ratio

Maka 1 per game,
Smith 1.92 per game,
Stack 1.3 per game


Points per game

Maka 2.2
Smith 1.2
Stack 1.2

Shut outs per game

Maka: 1 clean sheet every 2.3 games
Smith: 1 clean sheet every 14 games
Stack: 1 clean sheet every 3.1 games


Lies, damn lies and statistics aside. There really only looks one obvious choice for the number 1 shirt. However, despite being the youngest, least experienced, with the best stats I think he'll be the one shown the door in the summer.
Why? because he's the one Yogi never signed!
If you think back to our last derby game last season, when they lumped high balls in he was outstanding and constantly took the pressure off. He the only one that's capable off claiming high balls instead of leaving our vertically challenged central defence to deal with it. However as Hughes stated he doesn't communicate as well with Bamba so he was dropped! Surely something that could be ironed out in training.

One vital stat missing here - errors made. Can someone get them? I'll start with Stack - the one at Tiny when he let it hit the post - that's his only mistake.

Maka next?

Dunkin' Donut
06-05-2010, 06:31 PM
save the facts for another day, bottom line is maka has been slaughtered for a lot less than what smith done last night. none of our keepers are exactly covering themselves in glory in a bid to make the no.1 shirt theirs for next season.

Shaggy
07-05-2010, 07:48 AM
Mark Brown has not let in any goals since he signed for us......:wink:


I agree, hes a sensational sucess and yogis best signing !!!:agree:

TornadoHibby
07-05-2010, 08:05 AM
One vital stat missing here - errors made. Can someone get them? I'll start with Stack - the one at Tiny when he let it hit the post - that's his only mistake.

:faf: :faf:
Amazing the power of selective recall! :wink: :greengrin

Maka next?

Pointless even responding in support of Maka despite all the evidence as the Hibs equivalent of the "you only need to sh*g a sheep once" theory has already damned him to the Summer exit door I suspect! :confused:

Two or three years ago it was possible to enjoy the sometimes healthy debate that was often evident on here! Now everything on here seems to be focussed on the "blame culture" theory and one player or other, sometimes, like Maka, the same one for weeks on end, is continually "blamed", whether accurately or indeed justifiably IMO, until he gets punted as his "blamers" are seeking! :grr:

I now generally only read here now for "heads ups" on information as they arise and now tend not to get involved in some of the serious pettiness that has unfortunately crept in and become more common rather than not! :agree:

I believe that others like me have done the same and that is indeed unfortunate for the benefit of the board IMO although doubtless there will be some that disagree! :wink: :cool2: :greengrin

Arch Stanton
07-05-2010, 08:55 AM
One vital stat missing here - errors made. Can someone get them? I'll start with Stack - the one at Tiny when he let it hit the post - that's his only mistake.

Maka next?

Yep - Maka should have learned a lesson from Stack and stayed on his line whatever the situation. The team may have lost more goals but hey, better that than making a goalkeeping error.

Danderhall Hibs
07-05-2010, 08:57 AM
Yep - Maka should have learned a lesson from Stack and stayed on his line whatever the situation. The team may have lost more goals but hey, better that than making a goalkeeping error.

When Stack was in goals we had the best defensive record in the UK. Maybe not making many mistakes is the way forward?

hibees_forever
07-05-2010, 08:59 AM
Fair enough the keepers have been pretty poor but they cant take all the blame.

Our defence is useless. Chris Hogg should never play for hibs again. He cant even get the basics right. On the evidence of Wednesday night, Thico can get tae aswell as far as im concerned. The 2 of them are total garbage.
And how Chris Hogg can walk out with that armband is beyond me.

How can you expect our keepers to be confident when they have no confidence in the guys playing in front of them.

Every hibs fan could see in January that we had to sign a right back, a centre half, and a hardy central midfielder. We signed none of that and decided to sign 2 goalkeepers and an outside left..... Where is the logic behind that?

Its just a total shambles

NadeAteMyLunch!
07-05-2010, 09:15 AM
When Stack was in goals we had the best defensive record in the UK. Maybe not making many mistakes is the way forward?

We had the best record when Maka was in goals!! :confused: However, Yogi told my old man in Dec that he cant wait to get rid of Maka as, quote "Lovely big laddie but jst not got it".....Shame his signing Smith clearly doesnt have it either!!!

GreenPJ
07-05-2010, 09:51 AM
We have two keepers who don't particularly like coming off their line (Stack and Smith) but at the same time we are very weak at both LB and RB (I include LB as I think Murray is really struggling just now and has been for 2/3 months).
We have CH's that are either young, maverick's or not tall/good enough.

We play 3 in midfield who are all central midfielders and have no width.

We have forward players who don't always defend enough from the front.

Every team we play against knows this and every team we play against targets our flanks to whip in cross balls.

With weaknesses in defence and keepers who don't want to confidently come off their line no wonder we are conceeding so many goals. :boo hoo:

Danderhall Hibs
07-05-2010, 10:20 AM
We had the best record when Maka was in goals!! :confused:

Stack played the majority of the games - all through the unbeaten run, until he got injured at HT in the Falkirk (?) game.

Ritchie
07-05-2010, 10:31 AM
i never ever thought id say this but.... BRING BACK MAKA!!! :agree:

strangler
07-05-2010, 10:31 AM
Never mind the goalies, if Bamba had been playing on wed we would've been 2pts clear of Well. Is he defo back for Sunday?

mim
07-05-2010, 11:09 AM
We have two keepers who don't particularly like coming off their line (Stack and Smith) but at the same time we are very weak at both LB and RB (I include LB as I think Murray is really struggling just now and has been for 2/3 months).
We have CH's that are either young, maverick's or not tall/good enough.

We play 3 in midfield who are all central midfielders and have no width.

We have forward players who don't always defend enough from the front.

Every team we play against knows this and every team we play against targets our flanks to whip in cross balls.

With weaknesses in defence and keepers who don't want to confidently come off their line no wonder we are conceeding so many goals. :boo hoo:

That sums up our problem rather well. :agree:

IberianHibernian
07-05-2010, 11:19 AM
i never ever thought id say this but.... BRING BACK MAKA!!! :agree:Has probably known since January that he has no future at Hibs . After so long without a match and after recent personal problems has he even been training regularly ? Surely if he was match fit he`d have played at Motherwell after Smith`s performance in Derby ?

Phil MaGlass
07-05-2010, 11:21 AM
Id like to see Maka back in goal masel.

TornadoHibby
07-05-2010, 11:25 AM
That sums up our problem (s) rather well. :agree:

A wee correction I felt was required Mike as we have more problems than simply current goalkeepers not relieving pressure on defenders and reducing the risks of a headed goal from the central 6yd to 18yd area of our box! :wink: :greengrin

Scotthibs1875
07-05-2010, 04:54 PM
One vital stat missing here - errors made. Can someone get them? I'll start with Stack - the one at Tiny when he let it hit the post - that's his only mistake.

Maka next?
He is terrible. At least Smith will come off his line unlike Stack who is a bottle merchant. What have you seen of stack that makes you think he is better than Smith?

Danderhall Hibs
07-05-2010, 04:59 PM
He is terrible. At least Smith will come off his line unlike Stack who is a bottle merchant. What have you seen of stack that makes you think he is better than Smith?

Defensive organisation, leadership, good at one on ones and until his injury being a big part of the defensive record in the UK. On top of all that only 1 mistake that's cost us anything. That's all.

I bet Smith wishes he stayed on his line a bit more after the other night's horror show.

Scotthibs1875
07-05-2010, 05:26 PM
Defensive organisation, leadership, good at one on ones and until his injury being a big part of the defensive record in the UK. On top of all that only 1 mistake that's cost us anything. That's all.

I bet Smith wishes he stayed on his line a bit more after the other night's horror show.
Just because He made one mistake that game do you remember his performance during that hearts game. Running after the ball and missing the header oh aye that was a magnificant performance. Every corner that comes in he looks shaky and stands on his line.

--------
07-05-2010, 05:31 PM
Smith lost 11 goals in 2 games (5 v St Johnstone 6 v Motherwell)
The only Gk to have lost more in one game is Jim Leighton 7 v Rangers :boo hoo:


see that leighton?

Total bombscare. Ask Sir Alec Ferguson.

hibsbollah
07-05-2010, 05:35 PM
I said this before in another thread. In some ways I dont care which keeper gets the gloves, as long as they get a proper run of games to establish a relationship with the defenders. And arent just dropped after one or two bad games. Continuity is what you need in goals.

Danderhall Hibs
07-05-2010, 05:44 PM
Just because He made one mistake that game do you remember his performance during that hearts game. Running after the ball and missing the header oh aye that was a magnificant performance. Every corner that comes in he looks shaky and stands on his line.

He's no messiah. :wink: But he's the most consistent goalie we've got (can't say about Brown yet).

One bad game mate. Cost us one goal in a game we were always going to lose anyway. If he keeps making mistakes I'll be with you.

KeithTheHibby
07-05-2010, 05:56 PM
I reckon Mark Brown will start as number 1 keeper at the start of the season.

Bayern Bru
07-05-2010, 06:05 PM
I reckon Mark Brown will start as number 1 keeper at the start of the season.

You may very well be right.
I also expect one of Stack or Smith to move on in addition to Maka.

Has Maka's departure been confirmed or is it just speculation?

Arch Stanton
07-05-2010, 06:31 PM
We have two keepers who don't particularly like coming off their line (Stack and Smith) but at the same time we are very weak at both LB and RB (I include LB as I think Murray is really struggling just now and has been for 2/3 months).
We have CH's that are either young, maverick's or not tall/good enough.

We play 3 in midfield who are all central midfielders and have no width.

We have forward players who don't always defend enough from the front.

Every team we play against knows this and every team we play against targets our flanks to whip in cross balls.

With weaknesses in defence and keepers who don't want to confidently come off their line no wonder we are conceeding so many goals. :boo hoo:

I'm wondering if that is a tad unfair on the forwards since they also have to do their own midfield scavenging - maybe they could also run around with goalkeeping gloves and cover that position as well. :greengrin

To my amazement, I'm starting to appreciate Riordan more - the way he ran ahead of play after Stokes was clearly beaten and then the way he beat the keeper for his goal was great instinctive attacking play from him. The fact he doesn't have the same kind of defensive instincts isn't such a great drawback provided there is good defensive awareness in the midfield and the back four.

And Yogi, you can absolutely NOT blame our defending too deep on the forwards!! That is just stupid!

Arch Stanton
07-05-2010, 06:49 PM
Defensive organisation, leadership, good at one on ones and until his injury being a big part of the defensive record in the UK. On top of all that only 1 mistake that's cost us anything. That's all.

I bet Smith wishes he stayed on his line a bit more after the other night's horror show.

It's not often that Hibs can claim be the best in the UK so I'm a bit embarrassed that I am not aware of this achievement - what are the details? I must say it does sound pretty special!

Jonnyboy
07-05-2010, 06:56 PM
Smith lost 11 goals in 2 games (5 v St Johnstone 6 v Motherwell)
The only Gk to have lost more in one game is Jim Leighton 7 v Rangers :boo hoo:

IIRC Leighton was still in goals for the next game, a bit like Smith will be when we face United. Oh and for those who felt Wednesday night was a 'disgrace' I respectfully point you towards that 7-0 Ibrox gubbing as being a real disgrace.

hibsbollah
07-05-2010, 06:58 PM
It's not often that Hibs can claim be the best in the UK so I'm a bit embarrassed that I am not aware of this achievement - what are the details? I must say it does sound pretty special!

The only best defensive record in the UK we had this season as far as I know was in mid December (thanks to only conceding 5 goals in 11 games in Oct November and December, when Maka not Stack was between the sticks:confused:) Maybe Danderhall can correct me.

Danderhall Hibs
07-05-2010, 07:07 PM
It's not often that Hibs can claim be the best in the UK so I'm a bit embarrassed that I am not aware of this achievement - what are the details? I must say it does sound pretty special!

We had conceded the least goals from all the leagues in the UK. It was well publicised on here. :greengrin


The only best defensive record in the UK we had this season as far as I know was in mid December (thanks to only conceding 5 goals in 11 games in Oct November and December, when Maka not Stack was between the sticks:confused:) Maybe Danderhall can correct me.

I think Maka played in 2 (or 2 1/2) of the games?

hibsbollah
07-05-2010, 07:41 PM
We had conceded the least goals from all the leagues in the UK. It was well publicised on here. :greengrin



I think Maka played in 2 (or 2 1/2) of the games?

Ive checked, you're right:agree: maka just played in the December games during that run.

TornadoHibby
07-05-2010, 07:50 PM
Ive checked, you're right:agree: maka just played in the December games during that run.

And played rather well in each of them too IIRC, altho he was "blamed" on here for "spilling" a cross for the Killie goal only for the video evidence (courtesy of BBC) to show conclusively that Simon Ford had virtually "clothes lined" Maka stopping him from getting anywhere near the goal yet the ref "hadn't seen it"! :grr:

Maka was outstanding at Aberdeen and kept us in the match with several fine saves when we seemed to be finding it difficult to pass to players with green shirts! :agree:

I think that game was the start of our run of declining form and not the Rangers game which followed! :agree:

Coldest I've ever been at a Todders game too! :cool2: :greengrin

Arch Stanton
07-05-2010, 08:06 PM
We had conceded the least goals from all the leagues in the UK. It was well publicised on here. :greengrin



I think Maka played in 2 (or 2 1/2) of the games?

It maybe got highlighted on hibs.net but I doubt they were raving about it on Soccer A.M. - unless they were particularly stuck for interesting tidbits - 2 clean sheets in a row is what it amounts to. :agree: