That was the players fault, not Yogi's.

[blackpoolhibs]

They played as well as i have seen them play in years, to go 6-2 up, playing the same system we have played all season. Then our keeper decided to play without arms and hands again, just like saturday.:grr: On saturday, the managers is slaughtered for not taking a forward off, and bulking up the midfield with another midfielder. At 6-2 he does just that, but reading this board, he was wrong for doing that?

What could the manager have done that would have stopped us winning easily? I know, shot that ****in idiot Smith. This one is entirely down to the players, and nobody else.

[Arch Stanton]

What could the manager have done that would have stopped us winning easily?
Field a team that doesn't fold after 60 mins?

[Steve20]

Change the record.

No other manager would have thrown away a 6-2 lead. The entire shape of the team changed when he took Riordan off. Yes, the players are to blame yesterday as well, but to say Yogi is blameless is ridiculous.

[Mon Dieu4]

Wether you think its players fault or not, the buck stops with the manager and losing a 4 goal lead to anyone is unforgivable, coupled with performances & results in the last few months then people are going to be calling for his head.

[SalfordHibs]

They played as well as i have seen them play in years, to go 6-2 up, playing the same system we have played all season. Then our keeper decided to play without arms and hands again, just like saturday.:grr: On saturday, the managers is slaughtered for not taking a forward off, and bulking up the midfield with another midfielder. At 6-2 he does just that, but reading this board, he was wrong for doing that?

What could the manager have done that would have stopped us winning easily? I know, shot that ****in idiot Smith. This one is entirely down to the players, and nobody else.

So you are happy with a manager that just laughs and jokes after his team came from 6 - 2 lead to draw the game 6 6 or even worse it could have been 7 6 to Well last night if the penalty went in.

Answer me this why did he take Riordan off, it was the old Riordan last night and he was well up for it, they seem to back off him everytime he cut in with the ball, Nish played ok last night scored 3 goals, but as usual he started to fade out of the game, that should have been the change.

Our defence and goal keeper were nothing but embarrassing last night, it was Tynie all over again the 4 4 game, our problem is we dont seem to be fit and keep the pace going for the full 90mins, look at Motherwell they came out the blocks in the 2nd half and kept the pace going into injury time why cant we be like that.

I'll tell you why...Yogi isn't taking this job serious as he makes out, saying we only need 2 players, we need at least 8.

[blackpoolhibs]

Field a team that doesn't fold after 60 mins?

And what team would that have been? And what proof do you have, that any different line up, would have performed better?

[MrRobot]

Agreed. We need that defence sorted for the weekend or we're just gonna get pumped. Hogg and Thicot dropped, Murray in centre, Booth and McCann in at LB and RB. Midfield, drop Miller, but keep overall shape that we used cause we did get well forward.

[Arch Stanton]

And what team would that have been? And what proof do you have, that any different line up, would have performed better?

OK, you've convinced me - it's an impossible task - those other teams in the SPL that do it are probably on drugs I guess.

[hibs0666]

They played as well as i have seen them play in years, to go 6-2 up, playing the same system we have played all season. Then our keeper decided to play without arms and hands again, just like saturday.:grr: On saturday, the managers is slaughtered for not taking a forward off, and bulking up the midfield with another midfielder. At 6-2 he does just that, but reading this board, he was wrong for doing that?

What could the manager have done that would have stopped us winning easily? I know, shot that ****in idiot Smith. This one is entirely down to the players, and nobody else.

The manager picks the team and takes responsibility for results. The clown should be out the door this morning.

[greenlex]

I agree with Blackpool. Last night was down to the players.
The only thing he might be responsible for is their fitness.
Their is something fundementally wrong with professional players at that level that need their hands held to defend a four goal lead for half an hour.

[SalfordHibs]

And what team would that have been? And what proof do you have, that any different line up, would have performed better?

Keeper had a nightmare on Saturday did he not...There's one change for a start :agree:

[jst1875]

They played as well as i have seen them play in years, to go 6-2 up, playing the same system we have played all season. Then our keeper decided to play without arms and hands again, just like saturday.:grr: On saturday, the managers is slaughtered for not taking a forward off, and bulking up the midfield with another midfielder. At 6-2 he does just that, but reading this board, he was wrong for doing that?

What could the manager have done that would have stopped us winning easily? I know, shot that ****in idiot Smith. This one is entirely down to the players, and nobody else.

at 6 - 2 we still looked an attacking force with more goals to come, no need to shore up ... but by removing riordan he took away a major part of that force which also allowed their right back to push up and put more pressure on our dodgy defence.

[hibees_green]

They played as well as i have seen them play in years, to go 6-2 up, playing the same system we have played all season. Then our keeper decided to play without arms and hands again, just like saturday.:grr: On saturday, the managers is slaughtered for not taking a forward off, and bulking up the midfield with another midfielder. At 6-2 he does just that, but reading this board, he was wrong for doing that?

What could the manager have done that would have stopped us winning easily? I know, shot that ****in idiot Smith. This one is entirely down to the players, and nobody else.

Your good.:faf:

[MussyHibby]

I usually appreciate your positivity BH but your comments are ridiculous. Why don't we just not have a manager then?

He says " I don't know whether to laugh or cry", what a tube! Where's the apology, where's the humility, where's the understanding that that was unacceptable and embarrassing! :grr:

[khib70]

And what team would that have been? And what proof do you have, that any different line up, would have performed better?
Oh dear. Having spent most of last season (rightly) giving it tight to Mixu, you are now cheerleading for the gurning buffoon who has launched us into the realms of comedy. I sincerely hope you're at the windup!

Any manager with a shred of integrity would be packing his stuff right now. Instead we get yet another slavering post-match pishfest.

But he's from Leith, so.......

[J-C]

Change the record.

No other manager would have thrown away a 6-2 lead. The entire shape of the team changed when he took Riordan off. Yes, the players are to blame yesterday as well, but to say Yogi is blameless is ridiculous.

There's only one man to blame and that's Smith, is it a womder he's been bombed out everywhere he's went, flatters at first, then bang! a total joke of a keeper, I've seen better at Leith Links.
Maka had his faults but he never made 3 blatant errors in one game before.

[SalfordHibs]

I agree with Blackpool. Last night was down to the players.
The only thing he might be responsible for is their fitness.
Their is something fundementally wrong with professional players at that level that need their hands held to defend a four goal lead for half an hour.

Sorry mate for such an important game Hughes needed to pick the right team last night and he failed yet again, Smith was poor on Saturday and he got abused by the fans for it, his confidence must have been zero going into such a big game, fitness levels are down to the manager and they played a huge part last night, the correct subs are down to the manager.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

I agree with Blackpool. Last night was down to the players.
The only thing he might be responsible for is their fitness.
Their is something fundementally wrong with professional players at that level that need their hands held to defend a four goal lead for half an hour.


Well Lex don't get me started about the training complex, ever since we moved in to it our fitness has been terrible, get them back up Arthurs Seat and Porty beach instead of pandering them with "leisure" facilities

:grr:

[Expecting Rain]

Hibs have been incapable of basic defending all season and last night confirmed this, Yogi has had plenty of time to sort it out, throwing away a 6-2 lead is inexcusable, he also has the habit of giving his opponents hope by substituting our leading goalscorers, enough said.

[jacomo]

Oh dear. Having spent most of last season (rightly) giving it tight to Mixu, you are now cheerleading for the gurning buffoon who has launched us into the realms of comedy. I sincerely hope you're at the windup!

Any manager with a shred of integrity would be packing his stuff right now. Instead we get yet another slavering post-match pishfest.

But he's from Leith, so.......

And before that, this poster led the booing of John Collins.

Two wins in 14 league games? Desperate, woeful stuff. This is as big a collapse in form as any I can remember.

Of course, the manager is blameless. :rolleyes:

[greenlex]

Hibs have been incapable of basic defending all season and last night confirmed this, Yogi has had plenty of time to sort it out, throwing away a 6-2 lead is inexcusable, he also has the habit of giving his opponents hope by substituting our leading goalscorers, enough said.

Not all season we haven't. When we played Rangers in December our record was along with theirs and one other club down south I think the best in Britain.
We have turned to **** though.

[Judas Iscariot]

Yogi is as much to blame if not more so..

Before last night Yogi signed that inept prick Smith, he didn't bolster our *****y defence during the summer or the January window, he picks the team, the players, the formation, the tactics, he should inspire and lead the team..

Then last night..


Takes Riordan off for McBride - Good in principle, apart from the fact he didn't tell anyone to slot in where Riordan was.

Smith is having a mare/concussed - Doesnt sub the useless **** that chucked at least 3 of their goals and conceeds a needless pen.

Leaves Miller on for 90 mins - Who was clearly ****ed after 60 mins

Persists on playing Hogg - Who never won ANYTHING all night! Hanlon and Thicot have played excellent lately but since captain calamity has came back their games have suffered due to Hogg's sheer incompetance!

Only 2 subs - ANY manager worth his salt would have made a 3rd sub before they equalised, even if it wasn't a tactical sub but just to burn down the clock another few seconds

Formation - After subbing Deek a simple 4-4-2 would do but no, he planks McBride bang in the middle of the park along with Rankin and by this time, the dead on his feet Miller! Leaving acres of space down the flanks as no cover on the left and spoony lost hovering at RM! Why not bring Cregg on for Miller or even Stokes/Nish to shore up the midfield?

Naw, he ****ing takes Stokes off for ****ing Benji, a guy that's not interested in a battle if ever there was 1!!

And to top it all off, Yogi has the *******ing cheek to laugh at the final whistle :bitchy:

What the **** :grr:

[MussyHibby]

I agree with Blackpool. Last night was down to the players.
The only thing he might be responsible for is their fitness.
Their is something fundementally wrong with professional players at that level that need their hands held to defend a four goal lead for half an hour.

Not the formation? The fight? The substitutions? The inability to give DG a run? The goalkeeping problem? The post match comments.................:grr:

[khib70]

Yogi is as much to blame if not more so..

Before last night Yogi signed that inept prick Smith, he didn't bolster our *****y defence during the summer or the January window, he picks the team, the players, the formation, the tactics, he should inspire and lead the team..

Then last night..


Takes Riordan off for McBride - Good in principle, apart from the fact he didn't tell anyone to slot in where Riordan was.

Smith is having a mare/concussed - Doesnt sub the useless **** that chucked at least 3 of their goals and conceeds a needless pen.

Leaves Miller on for 90 mins - Who was clearly ****ed after 60 mins

Persists on playing Hogg - Who never won ANYTHING all night! Hanlon and Thicot have played excellent lately but since captain calamity has came back their games have suffered due to Hogg's sheer incompetance!

Only 2 subs - ANY manager worth his salt would have made a 3rd sub before they equalised, even if it wasn't a tactical sub but just to burn down the clock another few seconds

Formation - After subbing Deek a simple 4-4-2 would do but no, he planks McBride bang in the middle of the park along with Rankin and by this time, the dead on his feet Miller! Leaving acres of space down the flanks as no cover on the left and spoony lost hovering at RM! Why not bring Cregg on for Miller or even Stokes/Nish to shore up the midfield?

Naw, he ****ing takes Stokes off for ****ing Benji, a guy that's not interested in a battle if ever there was 1!!

And to top it all off, Yogi has the *******ing cheek to laugh at the final whistle :bitchy:

What the **** :grr:
:top marksSays it all:grr::grr::grr:

[Beefster]

They played as well as i have seen them play in years, to go 6-2 up, playing the same system we have played all season. Then our keeper decided to play without arms and hands again, just like saturday.:grr: On saturday, the managers is slaughtered for not taking a forward off, and bulking up the midfield with another midfielder. At 6-2 he does just that, but reading this board, he was wrong for doing that?

What could the manager have done that would have stopped us winning easily? I know, shot that ****in idiot Smith. This one is entirely down to the players, and nobody else.

I don't recall you making this argument in defence of Collins or Mixu? Why's that?

I could be wrong but I think you just like to go against the mainstream viewpoint to get a reaction:


Most folk back Collins (after winning a cup), you slate him.
Most folk back Mixu (after 6 months), you slate him.
Most folk are slating Hughes, you back him.

[Alfred E Newman]

They played as well as i have seen them play in years, to go 6-2 up, playing the same system we have played all season. Then our keeper decided to play without arms and hands again, just like saturday.:grr: On saturday, the managers is slaughtered for not taking a forward off, and bulking up the midfield with another midfielder. At 6-2 he does just that, but reading this board, he was wrong for doing that?

What could the manager have done that would have stopped us winning easily? I know, shot that ****in idiot Smith. This one is entirely down to the players, and nobody else.

Don`t faint but on this occasion I tend to agree with you. He brought on a defensive player at 3-6 which was the right thing to do. But the reallity is defensively we are a shambles and have been all season. yogi has to carry some of the blame for that. Bringing on Benji was another major blunder though if the goalkeeper is going to implode there is not much the manager can do about it. Last nights performance summed up Hibs strengths and weeknesses in 90 mins.

[cammy1969]

at 6 - 2 we still looked an attacking force with more goals to come, no need to shore up ... but by removing riordan he took away a major part of that force which also allowed their right back to push up and put more pressure on our dodgy defence.
spot on m8 gave them far to much room but at 6-4 i think we could all see whats was going to happen but not our great leader instead off killing the game take off nish or stokes and flood the midfield to kill the space but no not him while the team has to take a lot off the blame until our great manager takes off his eye patches i think were donald ducked

[greenlex]

Sorry mate for such an important game Hughes needed to pick the right team last night and he failed yet again, Smith was poor on Saturday and he got abused by the fans for it, his confidence must have been zero going into such a big game, fitness levels are down to the manager and they played a huge part last night, the correct subs are down to the manager.

The only other fit keeper is Maka. Now I am not anti Maja by any stretch but could you imagine the stick on here if Maka had been in goals last night with a similar performance. Hidsight us wonderfull.
Fitness levels are down tothe players too. You can lead a horse to water and all that. If the players are not buying into what Hughes is trying to insti they need to be punted not Hughes. Collins revolt anyone
Only sub lastnight I would question was benji for Stokes but even then Icould see what he was trying to do.

[Sergio sledge]

Sorry mate for such an important game Hughes needed to pick the right team last night and he failed yet again, Smith was poor on Saturday and he got abused by the fans for it, his confidence must have been zero going into such a big game, fitness levels are down to the manager and they played a huge part last night, the correct subs are down to the manager.

What other keeper was there to pick? If Yogi had picked Maka, he'd be getting pelters on here for it before the match. He can't win sometimes......

As someone else has said whatever the managers faults, and I think he has to take a share of the blame for last night and a large share of the blame for the run we are on, full time professional players with the experience of Murray, Hogg, Miller, Rankin, Smith, McBride and Nish should be able to dig in and hold on to a 4 goal lead with 25 minutes left. They should have shown leadership on the park and shown the inexperienced players how it should be done.

These players did the exact opposite, shrinking into their shells, and leaving responsibility to someone else.

[Expecting Rain]

Not all season we haven't. When we played Rangers in December our record was along with theirs and one other club down south I think the best in Britain.
We have turned to **** though.

Mate, when we didn`t concede it was more due to good fortune than decent defending and at times better organisation, maybe a better attitude as well, in my opinion of course.

[MussyHibby]

Personally I'm pointing the finger at Yogi but just pondering on Smith. 6 goals conceded and I'd blame him for only one.......the free kick. Yes, PK was a shocker but he redeemed himself. Goal from corner was a free kick. Not excusing him, he was rotten however, for me, Yogi's to blame.

[500miles]

Mate, when we didn`t concede it was more due to good fortune than decent defending and at times better organisation, maybe a better attitude as well, in my opinion of course.

It's because Bamba was an absolute rock at that point. Never underestimate the importance of a physically dominant centre half.

[BroxburnHibee]

BH, your constant blind backing of Yogi is as boring as your constant criticism was of Mixu last season.

You're at the wind up so give it a rest eh.

[Frazerbob]

I don't recall you making this argument in defence of Collins or Mixu? Why's that?

I could be wrong but I think you just like to go against the mainstream viewpoint to get a reaction:


Most folk back Collins (after winning a cup), you slate him.
Most folk back Mixu (after 6 months), you slate him.
Most folk are slating Hughes, you back him.


Agreed :agree:

BH is a top man a very good Hibby but he is losing all credibility as a Hibs.net poster with his bizarre defence of Yogi.

(sorry Gary!)

[erskine-hibby]

They played as well as i have seen them play in years, to go 6-2 up, playing the same system we have played all season. Then our keeper decided to play without arms and hands again, just like saturday.:grr: On saturday, the managers is slaughtered for not taking a forward off, and bulking up the midfield with another midfielder. At 6-2 he does just that, but reading this board, he was wrong for doing that?

What could the manager have done that would have stopped us winning easily? I know, shot that ****in idiot Smith. This one is entirely down to the players, and nobody else.

Total bollocks!!!

He is meant to be the manager and coach and as such is 100% responsible for what happens on the pitch. He can make subs, turn the team around, change set up and tactics (all of which he tried and failed miserably to do last night). How can you not see he has got less of a clue than Mixu had and is on a par with Duff Jimmy.
I must say I admire your loyalty to him (don't understand it, but admire it), but it's time for him to go. Do you really want the same thing next season?, cos that's what we are going to get with him in charge.

[Hainan Hibs]

Complete and utter wind up merchant.

Overly negative under Mixu to get attention, now overly positive under Yogi.

The act is old, boring and incredibly sad.

Give it up.

[jacomo]

I don't recall you making this argument in defence of Collins or Mixu? Why's that?

I could be wrong but I think you just like to go against the mainstream viewpoint to get a reaction:


Most folk back Collins (after winning a cup), you slate him.
Most folk back Mixu (after 6 months), you slate him.
Most folk are slating Hughes, you back him.


Certainly an attention seeker. I think BH likes to "call it" early - he hailed Yogi as a brilliant manager in the autumn, so can't admit his failings now.

[Andy74]

BH, your constant blind backing of Yogi is as boring as your constant criticism was of Mixu last season.

You're at the wind up so give it a rest eh.

Hold on, what do you want here? A board where only he 'majority' opinion is allowed to be repeated??

There are about 20 threads slagging Yogi and you can't handle a guy or two who actually have a differnet opinion.

BH has been proved pretty spot on with collins and Mixu although I've disagreed with him the past. I certainly agreed with the Mixu criticism and so did the Hibs board.

BH strikes me as pretty level headed and pragmatic and so if he can see the reasons around our perfromaces and they don't point to hughes being at fault then that's fine is it not??

I recall Hibs.net going tonto against Petrie for years and I was one of the only ones to stand up for him and the board and got non stop stick for it, called names, accused of being at the wind up. That tells me a t alot about the ability of Hibs.net taken on the whole to actually see what's going on at any given time.

[SalfordHibs]

The only other fit keeper is Maka. Now I am not anti Maja by any stretch but could you imagine the stick on here if Maka had been in goals last night with a similar performance. Hidsight us wonderfull.
Fitness levels are down tothe players too. You can lead a horse to water and all that. If the players are not buying into what Hughes is trying to insti they need to be punted not Hughes. Collins revolt anyone
Only sub lastnight I would question was benji for Stokes but even then Icould see what he was trying to do.

Maka wouldn't have made those 3 mistakes mate, sorry the manager is the one who takes the training so it's his job to make sure the fitness levels are up to the required standard, Hughes was always taking up the fitness levels in his interviews, where i want the club to go, some players need to have a right good look at themselves.

so is 2 wins in 17 games not Yogi's fault either...

[Barney McGrew]

He can't win

That's the whole point :cool2:

[BroxburnHibee]

Hold on, what do you want here? A board where only he 'majority' opinion is allowed to be repeated??

There are about 20 threads slagging Yogi and you can't handle a guy or two who actually have a differnet opinion.

BH has been proved pretty spot on with collins and Mixu although I've disagreed with him the past. I certainly agreed with the Yogi criticism and so did the Hibs board.

BH strikes me as pretty level headed and pragmatic and so if he can see the reasons around our perfromaces and they don't point to hughes being at fault then that's fine is it not??

I recall Hibs.net going tonto against Petrie for years and I was one of the only ones to stand up for him and the board and got non stop stick for it, called names, accused of being at the wind up. That tells me a t alot about the ability of Hibs.net taken on the whole to actually see what's going on at any given time.

My opinion is that he's at the wind up - is that allowed?

FWIW I backed Petrie all the way as well.

[SalfordHibs]

Hold on, what do you want here? A board where only he 'majority' opinion is allowed to be repeated??

There are about 20 threads slagging Yogi and you can't handle a guy or two who actually have a differnet opinion.

BH has been proved pretty spot on with collins and Mixu although I've disagreed with him the past. I certainly agreed with the Yogi criticism and so did the Hibs board.

BH strikes me as pretty level headed and pragmatic and so if he can see the reasons around our perfromaces and they don't point to hughes being at fault then that's fine is it not??

I recall Hibs.net going tonto against Petrie for years and I was one of the only ones to stand up for him and the board and got non stop stick for it, called names, accused of being at the wind up. That tells me a t alot about the ability of Hibs.net taken on the whole to actually see what's going on at any given time.

You are in the 5% :agree:

[greenlex]

Not the formation? The fight? The substitutions? The inability to give DG a run? The goalkeeping problem? The post match comments.................:grr:
there was nothing wrong with the formation when we were up by three goals and then four goals. Plenty fight just poor defending. What gialkeeping problem? He gad a shocker last night and a poor game on Sat. We have 2 keepers injured or have you missed that? Nothing wrong with the first substitution but Yes maybe cregg for stokes would have been better than benji. Haven't heard the full interview but what I hAve heard he didn't say anything that was disagreeable.

[hibsbollah]

And what team would that have been? And what proof do you have, that any different line up, would have performed better?

'Defending the Indefensible', a new novel by Blackpool Hibs. A real page-turner. Winner of the Paatelainen Prize for new modern fiction.

[blackpoolhibs]

My opinion is that he's at the wind up - is that allowed?

FWIW I backed Petrie all the way as well.

Of course your opinion is allowed, is that not what the message board is all about? FWIW last night, i watched a hibs team play as well as it had in a very long time. I also saw a goalkeeper reach Zibi and Maka levels of poor keeping. If Smith had just done the very basics of goalkeeping right, we would be on here today, congratulating the team and the manager on our qualification for Europe.

He never and we are not. One criticism of Yogi last night, i'd have taken Smith off at 6-3. All season we have had people say we are too kamakaze in our forward play, we need to go 4-4-2, or even 4-5-1 when we are winning, to try and defend our lead. When we dont do it, its the managers fault, when we do do it, its the managers fault. Its not only the team that are inconsistant.

[Hainan Hibs]

'Defending the Indefensible', a new novel by Blackpool Hibs. A real page-turner. Winner of the Paatelainen Prize for new modern fiction.

:faf:

[greenlex]

Mate, when we didn`t concede it was more due to good fortune than decent defending and at times better organisation, maybe a better attitude as well, in my opinion of course.

Of course it was. Do you really believe that we were lucky for the all that time?

[erskine-hibby]

Of course your opinion is allowed, is that not what the message board is all about? FWIW last night, i watched a hibs team play as well as it had in a very long time. I also saw a goalkeeper reach Zibi and Maka levels of poor keeping. If Smith had just done the very basics of goalkeeping right, we would be on here today, congratulating the team and the manager on our qualification for Europe.

He never and we are not. One criticism of Yogi last night, i'd have taken Smith off at 6-3. All season we have had people say we are too kamakaze in our forward play, we need to go 4-4-2, or even 4-5-1 when we are winning, to try and defend our lead. When we dont do it, its the managers fault, when we do do it, its the managers fault. Its not only the team that are inconsistant.

So it was just a bad day at the office, was it?? No one to blame but....erm the keeper...well maybe some of the players...yeah defo the keeper, defo the strikers, afterall they didn't score double figures...hey here's a novel thought, maybe because it's a "team" game we could blame the "team"....errrmm who is in charge of the team??? I don't know, cos it sure as hell ain't Teflon Yogi, he isn't to blame for anything. It must be that guy who is meant to manage, coach and train the players...just who is that???? cos I'm really confused.
:confused::confused::confused:

[blackpoolhibs]

So it was just a bad day at the office, was it?? No one to blame but....erm the keeper...well maybe some of the players...yeah defo the keeper, defo the strikers, afterall they didn't score double figures...hey here's a novel thought, maybe because it's a "team" game we could blame the "team"....errrmm who is in charge of the team??? I don't know, cos it sure as hell ain't Teflon Yogi, he isn't to blame for anything. It must be that guy who is meant to manage, coach and train the players...just who is that???? cos I'm really confused.
:confused::confused::confused:

Was our goalkeeper solely to blame for at least 3 goals last night, or not? Was Smiths performance acceptable?

[BroxburnHibee]

Of course your opinion is allowed, is that not what the message board is all about? FWIW last night, i watched a hibs team play as well as it had in a very long time. I also saw a goalkeeper reach Zibi and Maka levels of poor keeping. If Smith had just done the very basics of goalkeeping right, we would be on here today, congratulating the team and the manager on our qualification for Europe.

He never and we are not. One criticism of Yogi last night, i'd have taken Smith off at 6-3. All season we have had people say we are too kamakaze in our forward play, we need to go 4-4-2, or even 4-5-1 when we are winning, to try and defend our lead. When we dont do it, its the managers fault, when we do do it, its the managers fault. Its not only the team that are inconsistant.

To be honest Gary we played well "going forward" but lets not forget that the 'Well defence were just as bad if not worse with their defending.

If Smith really was concussed then he should have come off - so was it Yogi's fault or not :wink:

He did try to shore up the midfield which I think most folk would have wanted but the wrong striker came off - Nish was blowing out his arse - couldn't win a header - could barely run - how the **** was that gonna help?

Riordan and Stokes were well up for it last night so if we wanted 2 up front why was it not them :confused:

Instead he takes Deek off - tells Rankin to go on the wing - which he didn't do very well - and practically invites them to throw balls into our woeful defence.

Then to top it all off - he blames the strikers in his interview :hilarious - 6 goals :hilarious

Obviously none of that is Yogi's fault.

One thing I will agree with you though - the players seemed to forget completely how to pass a ball - absolutely ridiculous.

Last season you were lambasting Mixu for his tactical decisions - whats changed?

[erskine-hibby]

Of course it was. Do you really believe that we were lucky for the all that time?

No, just most.

[erskine-hibby]

Was our goalkeeper solely to blame for at least 3 goals last night, or not? Was Smiths performance acceptable?

If he was so bad should Yogi not have subbed him?? Or is he blind to that as well??

Either way he is to blame is he not???

[Leith Green]

They played as well as i have seen them play in years, to go 6-2 up, playing the same system we have played all season. Then our keeper decided to play without arms and hands again, just like saturday.:grr: On saturday, the managers is slaughtered for not taking a forward off, and bulking up the midfield with another midfielder. At 6-2 he does just that, but reading this board, he was wrong for doing that?

What could the manager have done that would have stopped us winning easily? I know, shot that ****in idiot Smith. This one is entirely down to the players, and nobody else.



You have become as laughable as Yogi..

[cammy1969]

Of course your opinion is allowed, is that not what the message board is all about? FWIW last night, i watched a hibs team play as well as it had in a very long time. I also saw a goalkeeper reach Zibi and Maka levels of poor keeping. If Smith had just done the very basics of goalkeeping right, we would be on here today, congratulating the team and the manager on our qualification for Europe.

He never and we are not. One criticism of Yogi last night, i'd have taken Smith off at 6-3. All season we have had people say we are too kamakaze in our forward play, we need to go 4-4-2, or even 4-5-1 when we are winning, to try and defend our lead. When we dont do it, its the managers fault, when we do do it, its the managers fault. Its not only the team that are inconsistant.
the thing is bh is we were 6-2 in front so why change the formation he changed the whole shap off the team when he seen it was'nt working what does he do hee haw now fair enuff he tried to see the game out but at 4-6 every man and his dog could see where it was going but he left the same team and shape now hes payed to see these thing and change it but for the god knows what time he left it as it was now if thats not the managers fault who's is it

[blackpoolhibs]

To be honest Gary we played well "going forward" but lets not forget that the 'Well defence were just as bad if not worse with their defending.
So are you are saying we should take no credit for scoring 6 goals?
If Smith really was concussed then he should have come off - so was it Yogi's fault or not :wink:
I dont know if he was concussed, was he?
He did try to shore up the midfield which I think most folk would have wanted but the wrong striker came off - Nish was blowing out his arse - couldn't win a header - could barely run - how the **** was that gonna help?
Sitting with my mate, i said stokes, he said riordan, you say nish.
Riordan and Stokes were well up for it last night so if we wanted 2 up front why was it not them :confused:
Perhaps the manager was doing what everyone has lambasted him for not doing, shoring up the midfield? But apparently thats not right now?
Instead he takes Deek off - tells Rankin to go on the wing - which he didn't do very well - and practically invites them to throw balls into our woeful defence. Obviously none of that is Yogi's fault.
They were throwing balls in all night, and Murray was having a howler, perhaps playing rankin in front was to stop that? Hindsight eh, its wonderful
One thing I will agree with you though - the players seemed to forget completely how to pass a ball - absolutely ridiculous.
We could have passed it like Brazil, it would have made no difference to Smiths shocking display. He and he alone cost us last night imho.
Last season you were lambasting Mixu for his tactical decisions - whats changed?

What's changed, a wee trip abroad next season, better points, better league position, and maybe even 4th spot. Small steps, but its a fact.

[blackpoolhibs]

the thing is bh is we were 6-2 in front so why change the formation he changed the whole shap off the team when he seen it was'nt working what does he do hee haw now fair enuff he tried to see the game out but at 4-6 every man and his dog could see where it was going but he left the same team and shape now hes payed to see these thing and change it but for the god knows what time he left it as it was now if thats not the managers fault who's is it

See what i mean, he cant win.

[zlatan]

It's like the whole Gramo/Mixu thing all over again.

[erskine-hibby]

What's changed, a wee trip abroad next season, better points, better league position, and maybe even 4th spot. Small steps, but its a fact.

Worst run in years, lose a 4 goal lead, lucky as ****** in the first half of the season, only played 4 decent games all season, a clueless manager who is not willing to take responsibility....all also facts.

We are not taking small steps forwards, but giant leaps backwards to the Duff Jimmy years.

[blackpoolhibs]

If he was so bad should Yogi not have subbed him?? Or is he blind to that as well??

Either way he is to blame is he not???

I think Yogi should have taken him off, i dont know if he was injured, but imho he's sheite.

[erskine-hibby]

See what i mean, he cant win.

It's not that he can't win.
It's because he hasn't got a clue.

[greenlex]

Maka wouldn't have made those 3 mistakes mate, sorry the manager is the one who takes the training so it's his job to make sure the fitness levels are up to the required standard, Hughes was always taking up the fitness levels in his interviews, where i want the club to go, some players need to have a right good look at themselves.

so is 2 wins in 17 games not Yogi's fault either...

possibly not but I wouldn't have thought that of smith a couple of weeks ago either.
Hughes can only do so much about the fitness. The players need to buy into it too.
I thought we were talking about last night on this thread?

[erskine-hibby]

possibly not but I wouldn't have thought that of smith a couple of weeks ago either.
Hughes can only do so much about the fitness. The players need to buy into it too.
I thought we were talking about last night on this thread?

So if they are not buying into it that is also Yogi's fault, it's his job to manage them is it not? not wiping their *****.

[BroxburnHibee]

What's changed, a wee trip abroad next season, better points, better league position, and maybe even 4th spot. Small steps, but its a fact.

Gary - my opinions not changed - you are at the wind up - Smith alone to blame :hilarious

But Yogi said it was the strikers :confused:

[Ray_]

They played as well as i have seen them play in years, to go 6-2 up, playing the same system we have played all season. Then our keeper decided to play without arms and hands again, just like saturday.:grr: On saturday, the managers is slaughtered for not taking a forward off, and bulking up the midfield with another midfielder. At 6-2 he does just that, but reading this board, he was wrong for doing that?

What could the manager have done that would have stopped us winning easily? I know, shot that ****in idiot Smith. This one is entirely down to the players, and nobody else.

Is their a rule about the said manager not being able to remove the said ****in idiot from the game, as everybody else could see how much a liability had become? Just by that simple inaction, he failed miserably to act like somebody who was capable of making decisions & therefore managing.

[cammy1969]

See what i mean, he cant win.
its not that he cant win why change when were 6-2 in front can you answer any of the other points in my other post

[Leith Green]

I think Yogi should have taken him off, i dont know if he was injured, but imho he's sheite.



You are defending Yogi and blaming Smith, Yet Smith hadnt put a foot wrong until he was wrongly made the scapegoat by Hughes for a 5-1 pumping at St Johnstone..Since that happened our defence has been awful, and they look disorganised and confused as to what the hell is going on..

In my opinion Smiths decline is down to Hughes.. Yet another boo boo fae Yogi, and neither wonder Smiths performances have since been awful

[SalfordHibs]

possibly not but I wouldn't have thought that of smith a couple of weeks ago either.
Hughes can only do so much about the fitness. The players need to buy into it too.
I thought we were talking about last night on this thread?

Same old story is it not?

[erskine-hibby]

I think Yogi should have taken him off, i dont know if he was injured, but imho he's sheite.

So why didn't he??
Same reasons as usual, he is clueless.

This can't go on and the 1 or 2 changes that Yogi says he needs in the closed season aint going to change anything. He is not getting anything out of the players that we have (better players than last term), something which you said Mixu was guilty of too.
Yep, the biggest change we need is the manager.

[GloryGlory]

Was our goalkeeper solely to blame for at least 3 goals last night, or not? Was Smiths performance acceptable?

Yes, in the final analysis, he was. And it wasn't a one-off, "bad-day-at-the-office" type of thing either. He has played poorly every time I've seen him and is a worse goalkeeper, IMO, than Simon Brown, Zibi and Maka.

However, in his defense, the defensive organisation and play in front of him is and has been extremely poor, not just last night but for months. Same old, same old - unable to defend set pieces, crosses of any kind into the box, poor marking, both full backs, even St Ian Murray, constantly out of position giving to much time and space to the opposition, midfield not tracking back effectively, when we do get the ball we are panicked into giving it away almost immediately, overall levels of fitness are very poor meaning that we can't sustain any pressure on the opposition in the last half hour, lack of motivation, team spirit. I could go on, but that'll do for starters.

All of these are things that the manager and his coaching team have had time to address and improve on the training pitch, not to mention during play by changing tactics and proper use of substitutes.

[Leith Green]

Gary - my opinions not changed - you are at the wind up - Smith alone to blame :hilarious

But Yogi said it was the strikers :confused:



Dont know what Yogi is watching??

What about the fact Hibs can't defend a long ball down the middle or any type of cross into our box, Seriously its the same every week and its getting boring now, most managers probably tell their team to thump balls down the middle or into the box as we cant defend them, thats down to Yogi to sort out, and its actually getting worse!

How the hell can yogi blame the strikers for last night??

[greenlex]

So if they are not buying into it that is also Yogi's fault, it's his job to manage them is it not? not wiping their *****.

If they are not buying in to it they need to be punted. What do you want Hughes to do? Live the lifestyle fir them ?

[greenlex]

Same old story is it not?

No the trhead is about the players ****ing it up last night not Hughes. Hughes has his faults and has been culpable on many occaisions during the season but last night wasn't one of them. I will criticise him when it's needed but it isn't on this occaision.

[erskine-hibby]

If they are not buying in to it they need to be punted. What do you want Hughes to do? Live the lifestyle fir them ?

I agree some need to be punted, but Yogi says he is happy with things and only another 1 or 2 players is needed??????????????????

If that's not delusional, I don't know what is.

It's been pretty apparent for a while that Yogi can talk the talk very well, but hasn't got a clue how to walk the walk.

[JimBHibees]

I agree with Blackpool. Last night was down to the players.
The only thing he might be responsible for is their fitness.
Their is something fundementally wrong with professional players at that level that need their hands held to defend a four goal lead for half an hour.

Completely agree. It wasnt just poor play it was abysmal and unforgiveable play. We were so soft in defence it was embarressing.

[ahibby]

Change the record.

No other manager would have thrown away a 6-2 lead. The entire shape of the team changed when he took Riordan off. Yes, the players are to blame yesterday as well, but to say Yogi is blameless is ridiculous.

I am no great fan of Yogis but he did what many other managers would have done. He brought on a defending midfielder for an attacker and a move like that would have seen most teams hold on to a 6-2 or 6-3 lead. I thought Motherwells sixth goal from the glimpse I saw of it was very special indeed and I'd like to see it again to see if it is a contender for goal of the season. Hibs problem last night was not what Yogi did but the players he had at his disposal. It was commented on tv during the game at 4-2 that Yogi will be happy from with his side from midfield through to forwards and that means that our defence is the problem. We have no commander in there Hanlon is young, Thicot is young, both relatively inexperienced in the positions they were playing last night at this level. I don't rate Smith, sorry but that's my feeling on the lad. He'd be okay for a lower spl side or div 1 but not a top spl side in my opinion. If we have the midfield and forward lines that we had last night along with a good defence we would be sitting with huge grins on our faces this morning. The damage was done earlier when we failed to bring in a CB and a RB during the windows. I felt at the time, if we had really pushed the boat out in those areas we would have done really well this season. Easy to say but not easy to find the right players.

[khib70]

No the trhead is about the players ****ing it up last night not Hughes. Hughes has his faults and has been culpable on many occaisions during the season but last night wasn't one of them. I will criticise him when it's needed but it isn't on this occaision.
What a master of understatement you are. So no criticism should come the way of a manager who contrives a 6-6 draw out of a 6-2 lead? What would it take? Does he have to run on to the park and boot the ball into our net a few times before he deserves any flak?

[Leith Green]

No the trhead is about the players ****ing it up last night not Hughes. Hughes has his faults and has been culpable on many occaisions during the season but last night wasn't one of them. I will criticise him when it's needed but it isn't on this occaision.




Hughes has had months to sort out Hibs defensive inadequecys, and they are getting worse. I'm losing count of the amount of goals we lose from long punts down the park and crosses into our box..

These should be worked on in training, so either they arent or the players arent listening, either way Yogi aint doing his job correctly and its a disgrace..

He is manager, he is to blame!!

[Cropley10]

No the trhead is about the players ****ing it up last night not Hughes. Hughes has his faults and has been culpable on many occaisions during the season but last night wasn't one of them. I will criticise him when it's needed but it isn't on this occaision.

You're a very fair man!

Would you be of the same opinion had we lost 7 -6?

[Expecting Rain]

Of course it was. Do you really believe that we were lucky for the all that time?


If you want an honest answer, yes, it was poor back then but even worse now.

[greenlex]

You're a very fair man!

Would you be of the same opinion had we lost 7 -6?

Yes. Why wouldn't I?

[Cropley10]

Yes. Why wouldn't I?

When does the manager become culpable then?

[JimBHibees]

Of course your opinion is allowed, is that not what the message board is all about? FWIW last night, i watched a hibs team play as well as it had in a very long time. I also saw a goalkeeper reach Zibi and Maka levels of poor keeping. If Smith had just done the very basics of goalkeeping right, we would be on here today, congratulating the team and the manager on our qualification for Europe.

He never and we are not. One criticism of Yogi last night, i'd have taken Smith off at 6-3. All season we have had people say we are too kamakaze in our forward play, we need to go 4-4-2, or even 4-5-1 when we are winning, to try and defend our lead. When we dont do it, its the managers fault, when we do do it, its the managers fault. Its not only the team that are inconsistant.

Completely agree if he had left the team as it was and it had ended up 6-6 he would have been slaughtered. We were 3 goals up with 20 to go a half decently organised pub team would do well to lose that kind of lead.

[Ritchie]

Dot talk so much bollocks!!

The players didn't take deek off and put mcbride on!!

We totally lost our shape after that!!!

For the first time in months there was no need for a substitution..... But yogi the tactical genius strikes again!!

Don't get me wrong, sone players aren't free from blame but it was mostly yogi!!!

[SalfordHibs]

No the trhead is about the players ****ing it up last night not Hughes. Hughes has his faults and has been culpable on many occaisions during the season but last night wasn't one of them. I will criticise him when it's needed but it isn't on this occaision.

Seem to be going on swings and roundabouts mate, i have already listed my thoughts on last night's game as to why Hughes should be blamed...so you agree it was our strikers fault.

I agree players showed again last night they didn't show any fight or beleive in themselves but Yogi made the wrong changes and it cost us 3 vital points.

[greenlex]

What a master of understatement you are. So no criticism should come the way of a manager who contrives a 6-6 draw out of a 6-2 lead? What would it take? Does he have to run on to the park and boot the ball into our net a few times before he deserves any flak?

Last night he would have failed if ge had stood back and made no changes when we were being pummeled as he has done in the past it has to be fair. Last night he changed it but the players defended badly. Why should he be made the scapegoat fir that? He us damned if he doesn't and now damned when he did.

[greenlex]

When does the manager become culpable then?

When he does nothing to change things or the wrong thing for the situation.

[TheMentalHibees]

I can't remember exactly what he said, but Paw Broon on the radio after the game said "I told my players at half time, if we got a goal, then Hibs would panic, and that's how it transpired."

He continued by saying he didn't expect us to get 2 more after the break, but his original statement still rings true. We've come down with ****-your-pants syndrome, it would appear. It happened against Hearts at the weekend, and it happened again yesterday, we concede a goal and everything goes to pot.

[SalfordHibs]

When he does nothing to change things or the wrong thing for the situation.

That's exactly what the manager done last night do keep up :wink:

[blackpoolhibs]

Dot talk so much bollocks!!

The players didn't take deek off and put mcbride on!!

We totally lost our shape after that!!!

For the first time in months there was no need for a substitution..... But yogi the tactical genius strikes again!!

Don't get me wrong, sone players aren't free from blame but it was mostly yogi!!!

So one change of player resulted in us drawing last night, it had nothing to do with our keepers inability to catch or come for any ball dropping in the 6 yard box?

[greenlex]

Seem to be going on swings and roundabouts mate, i have already listed my thoughts on last night's game as to why Hughes should be blamed...so you agree it was our strikers fault.

I agree players showed again last night they didn't show any fight or beleive in themselves but Yogi made the wrong changes and it cost us 3 vital points.

Hughes Made the change because the strikers had stopped doing what they had been tracking back and closing down. If anyone us telling me Hins had the upper hand when he made the change they need their head examined.
To say he is blaming the strikers us wrong. The whole team defended portly that last half hour but it starts at the front. I think that is what Hughes is saying.

[SalfordHibs]

Hughes Made the change because the strikers had stopped doing what they had been tracking back and closing down. If anyone us telling me Hins had the upper hand when he made the change they need their head examined.
To say he is blaming the strikers us wrong. The whole team defended portly that last half hour but it starts at the front. I think that is what Hughes is saying.

Bollocks anyone could see apart from Hughes the weakest link was our midfield and defence, keeper, the strikers done what they could last night and scored 6 goals, Nish should have been off and Riordan kept on as Nish was fading in the game and Riordan was raring to go, IMHO we could have went on to score more if Riordan was still on the park.

[Andy74]

Hughes Made the change because the strikers had stopped doing what they had been tracking back and closing down. If anyone us telling me Hins had the upper hand when he made the change they need their head examined.
To say he is blaming the strikers us wrong. The whole team defended portly that last half hour but it starts at the front. I think that is what Hughes is saying.

Exactly.

Falkirk away 3-1 Hughes keeps faith with team, people go mental that he didn't shore it up.

Caltic away 1-0 up, lose 2-1 people go mental that he didn't shore it up.

Just a couiple of examples.

Last night Riordan stopped running back, hughes had been screaming at him for 5 mins and then he makes a sensible change to put a sitting midfilder on and put Rankin on the left, not a change of shape at all, just a more solid player on the left.

That didn't change the game and it was actually the right thing to do.

Unfortunatley Hughes can't go on the pitch, hold each of their hands and win all their batles for them.

[greenlex]

That's exactly what the manager done last night do keep up :wink:

I am pretty sure if the change had not been made the result would have been the same.
I can also guarantee you there would have been even more threads and posts slating him if he didn't and the result was the same.

[blackpoolhibs]

Bollocks anyone could see apart from Hughes the weakest link was our midfield and defence, keeper, the strikers done what they could last night and scored 6 goals, Nish should have been off and Riordan kept on as Nish was fading in the game and Riordan was raring to go, IMHO we could have went on to score more if Riordan was still on the park.

All season the managers been critisiced for playing his (mavericks). We have been slaughtered for playing too many forwards, this board did/does it all the time. Now its changed, we now want to keep them all on. I'm confused.:confused:

[blackpoolhibs]

Exactly.

Falkirk away 3-1 Hughes keeps faith with team, people go mental that he didn't shore it up.

Caltic away 1-0 up, lose 2-1 people go mental that he didn't shore it up.

Just a couiple of examples.

Last night Riordan stopped running back, hughes had been screaming at him for 5 mins and then he makes a sensible change to put a sitting midfilder on and put Rankin on the left, not a change of shape at all, just a more solid player on the left.

That didn't change the game and it was actually the right thing to do.

Unfortunatley Hughes can't go on the pitch, hold each of their hands and win all their batles for them.

Far too sensible a post Andy, perhaps he should have taken a midfielder off, and put benji on too?

[Barney McGrew]

Last night Riordan stopped running back, hughes had been screaming at him for 5 mins and then he makes a sensible change to put a sitting midfilder on and put Rankin on the left, not a change of shape at all, just a more solid player on the left.

That didn't change the game and it was actually the right thing to do

He then spent the remainder of the match screaming at Rankin to play more centrally rather than wide left, so it was a change of shape.

Which left Murray woefully exposed time and time again on the left side.

[JimBHibees]

Exactly.

Falkirk away 3-1 Hughes keeps faith with team, people go mental that he didn't shore it up.

Caltic away 1-0 up, lose 2-1 people go mental that he didn't shore it up.

Just a couiple of examples.

Last night Riordan stopped running back, hughes had been screaming at him for 5 mins and then he makes a sensible change to put a sitting midfilder on and put Rankin on the left, not a change of shape at all, just a more solid player on the left.

That didn't change the game and it was actually the right thing to do.

Unfortunatley Hughes can't go on the pitch, hold each of their hands and win all their batles for them.

Yep that would be my view also they are meant to be professional players after all not under 12s they should know how to defend, how to slow the game down and see the game out when 3 goals up with 20 to go. Laughable they werent able to do it.

[JimBHibees]

He then spent the remainder of the match screaming at Rankin to play more centrally rather than wide left, so it was a change of shape.

Which left Murray woefully exposed time and time again on the left side.

How do you know that? Rankin certainly seemed to be playing more left side after the change.

[Cropley10]

He then spent the remainder of the match screaming at Rankin to play more centrally rather than wide left, so it was a change of shape.

Which left Murray woefully exposed time and time again on the left side.

But that's Rankins fault and Murray's not Hughes:grr:

[Captain Trips]

No matter if he made changes or not the players on park where presented with 4 situations that they themselves failed in at 6-2, if Yogi taking off Riordan was a mistake thats not certain, what is certain IMO dreadful errors where made and should have been dealt with.

The blame for me is with the players firstly.

[blackpoolhibs]

How do you know that? Rankin certainly seemed to be playing more left side after the change.

:agree:

[SalfordHibs]

All season the managers been critisiced for playing his (mavericks). We have been slaughtered for playing too many forwards, this board did/does it all the time. Now its changed, we now want to keep them all on. I'm confused.:confused:

Blackpoolhibsthecomeidan.com

[blackpoolhibs]

No matter if he made changes or not the players on park where presented with 4 situations that they themselves failed in at 6-2, if Yogi taking off Riordan was a mistake thats not certain, what is certain IMO dreadful errors where made and should have been dealt with.

The blame for me is with the players firstly.

Spot on, to say one substitution was as bad as that defending/goalkeeping is frankly laughable. And just says to me, they are more interested in slaughtering the manager, than looking at the facts.

[HibbyAndy]

Blackpoolhibsthecomiedan.com

.

[SQHib]

[QUOTE=ahibby;2455714]
I am no great fan of Yogis but he did what many other managers would have done. He brought on a defending midfielder for an attacker and a move like that would have seen most teams hold on to a 6-2 or 6-3 lead.

Disagree - he went like for like - Riordan has much to my disgust played as a left midfielder ALL SEASON ( there's been more written on hibs.net about this than today's election ) so he cant suddenly be an attacker now cause it suits Yogis excuses - so at 6 - 3 up he went like for like - in fact worse he took off Riordan LM ( who btw played like a LM superbly all night !!) and moved Rankin CM ( also playing well ) to LM and then put McBride in at CM - we were still 4-4-2 not a tactical change in sight - we should have gone 4-5-1 left Deeks on at taken Stokes or Nish off ( not becuase they were playing badly but because they were the forwards I may add and you need to take a forward off to go from 4-4-2 to 4-5-1

I thought Motherwells sixth goal from the glimpse I saw of it was very special indeed and I'd like to see it again to see if it is a contender for goal of the season. Hibs problem last night was not what Yogi did but the players he had at his disposal.

Disagree again - As has also been said on here - players he had at his disposal allowed him to change formation quite easily i.e. above 4-4-2 to 4-5-1 and at any time from McBride subby at 6-3 down he could have changed it further with 2 more subs. He waited till 88 mins ( yes 88 mins ) when we had gone from 6-3 to 6- 5 and well had missed penalty before he made his next move - a tactical one to save the match ( and Europe etc)??? , no Stokes off - benji on. Not a tactical move - no a like for like move AGAIN !!

For what reason ? at 6-5 with 2 mins + stoppage were we looking to replace a tiring striker with a lazy one ? Looking to go 7 -5 ?? Surely not ? That defies belief even for Yogi !! Again he could have taken off stokes and on 88 mins after being 4 - 1 up and 6 - 2 up and now hanging no by 1 goal he could have made his FIRST !! formation change of the game and gone 4-5-1 but no - defies belief !

heck he even could have done this in injury time when holding onto a 1 goal lead if nothing else to run the clock down , break up play and give the defence who were now breathing out their ***** some respite for even 15 secs during the subsitution - Maybe even now AT 92 Minutes having subbed midfielder for midfielder and forward for forward we could have maybe gone a wee bit cagey and helped out the back 4 you know make them a back 5 by taking off Stokes and putting on McCormack - go with 3 CHs and tell them with 1 minute on the clock to kick anything and boot the ball into touch - but no !

Ah but aftrewards it became apparent - we defend from the front - that'll be why benji came on then cause he's well known to run and harry defenders and close down like Kenny Miller - couldn't make it up !!

ahibby dont pick me up wrong not having a go at you mate and I agree the players were at fault but the buck stops with the manager - always

[blackpoolhibs]

Blackpoolhibsthecomiedan.com

Great reply. salfordhibs****inidiot.org

Its easy this, aint it?

[Barney McGrew]

How do you know that? Rankin certainly seemed to be playing more left side after the change.

Because I sat and watched him do it :wink:

He moved Rankin one out, but told the midfield to play more narrow. That's what gave them more space down that side.

Wotherspoon did the same on the right when he took Riordan off.

[blackpoolhibs]

Because I sat and watched him do it :wink:

He moved Rankin one out, but told the midfield to play more narrow. That's what gave them more space down that side.

Wotherspoon did the same on the right when he took Riordan off.

Na, Wotherspoon was stuck to the right hand side line all second half

[Captain Trips]

Spot on, to say one substitution was as bad as that defending/goalkeeping is frankly laughable. And just says to me, they are more interested in slaughtering the manager, than looking at the facts.

Lets even say it was a mistake, the players on the park failed to deal with bread and butter situations on 3 or 4 occasions, no matter what Hughes had done I would expect players to be able to do a lot better at 4th 5th and 6th goals.

The result was down to frankly dreadful play from players.

We all know Yogi makes mistakes but some players have made way too many now.

[Beefster]

Because I sat and watched him do it :wink:

He moved Rankin one out, but told the midfield to play more narrow. That's what gave them more space down that side.

Wotherspoon did the same on the right when he took Riordan off.

Aye, but if we had had better players that space down the flanks, created due to Hughes' changes, wouldn't have been there?

Or something.

[SalfordHibs]

Great reply. salfordhibs****inidiot.org :bitchy:

Its easy this, aint it?

From a man that was against Mixu in everything he tried to do, now backs Hughes who is doing the same infact worse, at least Mixu got results against the Yams.

[The Voice Of Reason]

I am another one in the minority then. :cool2:

Last night the players were to blame (mostly the keeper). Although I would remind everyone that Hogg is still carrying an injury and Hanlon has been out with an injury and is not match fit.

Yogi (or any other manager for that matter) surely cannot legislate for the "Coco The Clown" antics of the keeper. He had a stinker.

Admittedly, Yogi did sign Smith.....but he must surely now be thinking of getting rid of him.

Is that Mark Brown guy any good ? I bloody well hope so ! Also, folk on here in the past were quick enough to lambast Gordon Marshall, so what about having a go at Scott Thompson........is he to blame for Smith's antics ?!? :devil:

[erskine-hibby]

I am another one in the minority then. :cool2:

Last night the players were to blame (mostly the keeper). Although I would remind everyone that Hogg is still carrying an injury and Hanlon has been out with an injury and is not match fit.

Yogi (or any other manager for that matter) surely cannot legislate for the "Coco The Clown" antics of the keeper. He had a stinker.

Admittedly, Yogi did sign Smith.....but he must surely now be thinking of getting rid of him.

Is that Mark Brown guy any good ? I bloody well hope so ! Also, folk on here in the past were quick enough to lambast Gordon Marshall, so what about having a go at Scott Thompson........is he to blame for Smith's antics ?!? :devil:

Mate, Coco the clown is in the dugout, but hopefully not for much longer.

[The Voice Of Reason]

Great reply. salfordhibs****inidiot.org

Its easy this, aint it?

Here's what I think :-

salfordhibs@yamundercover.com :jamboak:

[Andy74]

From a man that was against Mixu in everything he tried to do, now backs Hughes who is doing the same infact worse, at least Mixu got results against the Yams.

Mixu had us at best 6th and lower down the leagues for his whole time in charge.

Hughes has had Hibs at 3rd for the majority of the time has been here and no lower than 5th.

If you want to look at the worst of something then you look at the last 12 weeks or you could view the whole tenure and that actually is fairly good.

And you must remember that wer are very far from the finished article.

Why anyone would want yet another manager coming in to work with the same players is beyond me I'm afraid.

[The Voice Of Reason]

Mate, Coco the clown is in the dugout, but hopefully not for much longer.

Disagree my friend.

[The Voice Of Reason]

Mixu had us at best 6th and lower down the leagues for his whole time in charge.

Hughes has had Hibs at 3rd for the majority of the time has been here and no lower than 5th.

If you want to look at the worst of something then you look at the last 12 weeks or you could view the whole tenure and that actually is fairly good.

And you must remember that wer are very far from the finished article.

Why anyone would want yet another manager coming in to work with the same players is beyond me I'm afraid.

:top marks :agree:

[SalfordHibs]

Mixu had us at best 6th and lower down the leagues for his whole time in charge.

Hughes has had Hibs at 3rd for the majority of the time has been here and no lower than 5th.

If you want to look at the worst of something then you look at the last 12 weeks or you could view the whole tenure and that actually is fairly good.

And you must remember that wer are very far from the finished article.

Why anyone would want yet another manager coming in to work with the same players is beyond me I'm afraid.

I will agree with you on one part of your post "FINISHED" WE CERTAINLY ARE UNDER THAT CLOWN

[SalfordHibs]

Here's what I think :-

salfordhibs@yamundercover.com :jamboak: :faf:

Far from it young boy :dizzy:

[greenlex]

From a man that was against Mixu in everything he tried to do, now backs Hughes who is doing the same infact worse, at least Mixu got results against the Yams.

You cannot sayhe is worse than Mixu. We are a shoe in for fifth with fourth a real possibilityILIfe not alll about results against Hearts. Yes it's great to beat them but I bet every single one if themwould swap positions this morning.

[JimBHibees]

Mixu had us at best 6th and lower down the leagues for his whole time in charge.

Hughes has had Hibs at 3rd for the majority of the time has been here and no lower than 5th.

If you want to look at the worst of something then you look at the last 12 weeks or you could view the whole tenure and that actually is fairly good.

And you must remember that wer are very far from the finished article.

Why anyone would want yet another manager coming in to work with the same players is beyond me I'm afraid.

Completely right and if you selectively look at some of the football we were playing last night from middle to front it showed the level of potential that is already in the squad. Great passing and moving on an absolutely appalling pitch. The first goal was excellent. Given a decent goalkeeper and defence we would no doubt be a better team next season. Yogi has made some errors however even something like Bamba playing in the last 3 games would have seen us getting more points than we have. I am hoping that he has a few players already lined up primarily in defensive areas which he maybe wasnt able to get in January.

This certainly isnt the time to be knee jerking and sacking the manager. Give the guy some real time to turn the team around.

[silverhibee]

They played as well as i have seen them play in years, to go 6-2 up, playing the same system we have played all season. Then our keeper decided to play without arms and hands again, just like saturday.:grr: On saturday, the managers is slaughtered for not taking a forward off, and bulking up the midfield with another midfielder. At 6-2 he does just that, but reading this board, he was wrong for doing that?

What could the manager have done that would have stopped us winning easily? I know, shot that ****in idiot Smith. This one is entirely down to the players, and nobody else.


Sorry BH disagree with that, you say it was the players, i say it was Yogi's fault, the first who should have been removed from the pitch should have been Stokes and not Riordan, bring McBride on for Stokes and leave Nish upfront and Hibs go 4-5-1, after Riordan was taken off wee never had another attack at there goal, to then take Stokes off and put Benji on was just plain stupid if you ask me.

So i dont know why you are dumping all the blame on the players, yes they may have contributed to that last night, but so did the manager, and the buck stops with him, if Yogi had any balls he should have hooked Smith when he got a knock and brought on Maka, scary thought i know, but Smith was chucking them in last night.

[blackpoolhibs]

From a man that was against Mixu in everything he tried to do, now backs Hughes who is doing the same infact worse, at least Mixu got results against the Yams.

Mixu had us challenging for 4th? I must have missed that.:confused:

[SalfordHibs]

You cannot sayhe is worse than Mixu. We are a shoe in for fifth with fourth a real possibility. IRS nor all about results against Hearts. Yes it's great to beat them but Oi bet every single one if themwould swap positions this morning.

17 games and 2 wins is acceptable is it, we were 10 points clear of the Yams and nearly beat us to Europe...What an achievement eh :bitchy:

JH has had more money to spend than Mixu or JC got, and he never replaced what was required, do you really think our board is going to back him in the say way, nae chance, RP has to take the blame along with the other members of the board as they brought in someone on the cheap, when what was required, they needed to shell out and get in an experience manager.

[Craig_in_Prague]

Completely right and if you selectively look at some of the football we were playing last night from middle to front it showed the level of potential that is already in the squad. Great passing and moving on an absolutely appalling pitch. The first goal was excellent. Given a decent goalkeeper and defence we would no doubt be a better team next season. Yogi has made some errors however even something like Bamba playing in the last 3 games would have seen us getting more points than we have. I am hoping that he has a few players already lined up primarily in defensive areas which he maybe wasnt able to get in January.

This certainly isnt the time to be knee jerking and sacking the manager. Give the guy some real time to turn the team around.

Yep,
in the cold light of day, sacking Hughes isn't the right thing,
Last night I seen the best football we've played in a long long time, and without stating the obvious the same goes for the terrible defending.

Hughes knows we need to toughen up, get in better 'defenders' and a Matty Jack in midfield, and boy this team could go places.

[erskine-hibby]

Yep,
in the cold light of day, sacking Hughes isn't the right thing,
Last night I seen the best football we've played in a long long time, and without stating the obvious the same goes for the terrible defending.

Hughes knows we need to toughen up, get in better 'defenders' and a Matty Jack in midfield, and boy this team could go places.

Aye the first division.

[blackpoolhibs]

Sorry BH disagree with that, you say it was the players, i say it was Yogi's fault, the first who should have been removed from the pitch should have been Stokes and not Riordan, bring McBride on for Stokes and leave Nish upfront and Hibs go 4-5-1, after Riordan was taken off wee never had another attack at there goal, to then take Stokes off and put Benji on was just plain stupid if you ask me.

So i dont know why you are dumping all the blame on the players, yes they may have contributed to that last night, but so did the manager, and the buck stops with him, if Yogi had any balls he should have hooked Smith when he got a knock and brought on Maka, scary thought i know, but Smith was chucking them in last night.

You do know you are in the minority. Most of this season, when we have been winning, the manager has been slaughtered for not doing what you say. But last night, apparently most wanted us to keep the mavericks on, and continue to go for it. This bolstering the midfield when winning only seems to be right, when we lose games we were winning.:confused:

[ahibby]

17 games and 2 wins is acceptable is it, we were 10 points clear of the Yams and nearly beat us to Europe...What an achievement eh :bitchy:

JH has had more money to spend than Mixu or JC got, and he never replaced what was required, do you really think our board is going to back him in the say way, nae chance, RP has to take the blame along with the other members of the board as they brought in someone on the cheap, when what was required, they needed to shell out and get in an experience manager.

No way is it acceptable but we must look at that along with where we finish and the reason why we didn't finish 3rd. A lot of the blame could lie with Yogi but we all know that we have played with out a real right back all season and when Bamba is out and Hogg is unfit, we are up sh** creek for CH/CBs. Give him a chance to improve our defence in the summer. If he doesn't I think our league position will be so poor by Christmas, he will be away. On the other hand if he brings in the right players we wil be sitting clever, but then again I predicted a Hibs win last night.

[SalfordHibs]

No way is it acceptable but we must look at that along with where we finish and the reason why we didn't finish 3rd. A lot of the blame could lie with Yogi but we all know that we have played with out a real right back all season and when Bamba is out and Hogg is unfit, we are up sh** creek for CH/CBs. Give him a chance to improve our defence in the summer. If he doesn't I think our league position will be so poor by Christmas, he will be away. On the other hand if he brings in the right players we wil be sitting clever, but then again I predicted a Hibs win last night.

Mate i want the best for Hibernian Football Club, i had a bad feeling when Yogi got appointed but i was prepared to let him win me over, which sadly isn't the case.

Why should we let him waste more money what has already happened in the last two windows.

It's time for a change and needs to be done ASAP.

[Barney McGrew]

Mixu had us at best 6th and lower down the leagues for his whole time in charge.

Hughes has had Hibs at 3rd for the majority of the time has been here and no lower than 5th.

If you want to look at the worst of something then you look at the last 12 weeks or you could view the whole tenure and that actually is fairly good

Jim Duffy had us leading the league at one point. Didn't mean it was right that we kept him in charge though.

Rightly or wrongly, in football management it's your current results that decide your future, not what's happened back down the line.

[Captain Trips]

Under 2 managers I have seen errors and bad play that have cost us goals, yeah Mixu and Hughes made mistakes but some of these players have been making errors for years now and not playing well often enough.

Yeah we have some good players but a lot more not up for it. I would like to see Hughes remain but only if during the summer he looks to be making some serious changes with players.

[JimBHibees]

Jim Duffy had us leading the league at one point. Didn't mean it was right that we kept him in charge though.

Rightly or wrongly, in football management it's your current results that decide your future, not what's happened back down the line.

I would hope the Board would look at the bigger picture than current results such as over the season, who we are looking to replace in the squad and who we are looking to bring in also.

[greenlex]

Jim Duffy had us leading the league at one point. Didn't mean it was right that we kept him in charge though.

Rightly or wrongly, in football management it's your current results that decide your future, not what's happened back down the line.

A draw on Sunday makes it 2 in 18. Will most likely have us 4th at the end of a season. It's a results business 4th in the league and a euro slot is an improvement not only on last season but where we are right now. The board would need to think long and hard about sacking him. If it's about season ticket sales he might go if it's about results he should stay.

[ahibby]

Mate i want the best for Hibernian Football Club, i had a bad feeling when Yogi got appointed but i was prepared to let him win me over, which sadly isn't the case.

Why should we let him waste more money what has already happened in the last two windows.

It's time for a change and needs to be done ASAP.

I said to my mates when the appointment was made public that I wasn't sure he was the right man for the job. During the season I have seen what I think is poor man management skills and a lack of tactical awareness, but that's only my opinion. I haven't been happy and that is why this season was my first in many with out a season ticket.

I think Yogi is turning a corner now and if he can get the right players in people will feel different about him by September. If he doesn't he will be out the door by Christmas.

[skipster7]

I agree some need to be punted, but Yogi says he is happy with things and only another 1 or 2 players is needed??????????????????

If that's not delusional, I don't know what is.

It's been pretty apparent for a while that Yogi can talk the talk very well, but hasn't got a clue how to walk the walk.
umpteen times you've mentioned only 1 or 2 players needed so i'll take the bait.would it be a good idea when with important games still to play to say in public that half my squad are either bottlers or aren't up to it and i'll punt them if anybody will have them ?
i dont.

[Barney McGrew]

I would hope the Board would look at the bigger picture than current results such as over the season, who we are looking to replace in the squad and who we are looking to bring in also.

I'm sure that's exactly what they will be doing come Monday morning, regardless of where we finish in the league - and they're not in an enviable position.

As Greenlex says, the decision will come down to two things - how he's done against whatever targets he was set at the start of the season and how we are doing with season ticket sales.

[SalfordHibs]

I said to my mates when the appointment was made public that I wasn't sure he was the right man for the job. During the season I have seen what I think is poor man management skills and a lack of tactical awareness, but that's only my opinion. I haven't been happy and that is why this season was my first in many with out a season ticket.

I think Yogi is turning a corner now and if he can get the right players in people will feel different about him by September. If he doesn't he will be out the door by Christmas.

Sorry mate i cant see it, that's why i would like changes done now.

[Andy74]

I'm sure that's exactly what they will be doing come Monday morning, regardless of where we finish in the league - and they're not in an enviable position.

As Greenlex says, the decision will come down to two things - how he's done against whatever targets he was set at the start of the season and how we are doing with season ticket sales.

I'd be thoroughlly amazed if Hughes' position was even being remotely considered.

The Board ain't daft, they can see the overall picture and the reasons behind the slump and what can be done to fix it.

Even if season tickets go down, which I don't think they will, I would doubt getting rid of yet another manager and not actually addressing the areas of the team that need fixed first would be the way they would choose to deal with it.

[blackpoolhibs]

Sorry mate i cant see it, that's why i would like changes done now.

I think we get that.

[Gatecrasher]

Answer me this why did he take Riordan off, it was the old Riordan last night and he was well up for it, they seem to back off him everytime he cut in with the ball, Nish played ok last night scored 3 goals, but as usual he started to fade out of the game, that should have been the change.

.

i couldnt help but laugh at this though.

big nishy's contribution should have won the game on its own but he only did ok :rolleyes:

gie the guy a break FFS

[Bad Martini]

The problems we had last night...let's see.

Scoring goals? Nope.

Setting up goals? Nope.

Tracking back defensively...possibly.

Shutting up shop with a THREE goal margin - for sure. Shutting up shop witha FOUR goal margin - utterly ****ing criminal!!!

The forwards (and midfield) come back with more goals, more chances and ultimately put the game beyond the opposition at 6-2.

Then what happens...Motherwell change tact and go for it and we make a ****ing change that was NOT needed. We had gained a 4 goal advantage by doing - just when we were all fooled into thinking Yogi had this one sewn up, he goes and steals a draw (and very nearly a defeat) from the jaws of a massive 6 ****ing 2 win!!!

He whips of Riordan, who is NOT a forward (if you want to shut up shop, remove Nish or Stokes - NOT cause their doing bad - both done very well - but because you dont care about scoring more) and bring on a defender/defensive midfielder....

Then, if necessary, do that again later in the game.

Naw, we bring off our ****ing playmaker and goalscorer and leave on two forwards.

THEN, we bring off a forward and bring on ANOTHER forward when we MUST protect a slim 1 goal margin.

WHERE IS THE TACTICS AND THINKING IN THIS????


Please someone explain and justify these subs? If someone can do it, I'd love to hear it. Its not logical. It's not sensible. It's not even possible TO explain it because it defies all logic.

Add to that our defense was sheite, our keeper was found wanting and we did nothing to change THAT and THAT is where our problems lie.

However, Im sure collectively he'll blame the players, the pitch, Riordan, Nish, Stokes etc - the PROBLEM is Yogi's poor substitutions. NOTHING ELSE.

It was NOT broken at 6-2....and if you are going to change it, at least make a change that makes SENSE...bring off a forward for a defender. NOT a left midfielder/playmaker.

Then, if necessary repeat to protect....Benji??? Why?

Fak it. Am gettin pissed off just thinking aboot this again.

ENDOF :brickwall:brickwall:brickwall:brickwall:brickwall

[Andy74]

The problems we had last night...let's see.

Scoring goals? Nope.

Setting up goals? Nope.

Tracking back defensively...possibly.

Shutting up shop with a THREE goal margin - for sure. Shutting up shop witha FOUR goal margin - utterly ****ing criminal!!!

The forwards (and midfield) come back with more goals, more chances and ultimately put the game beyond the opposition at 6-2.

Then what happens...Motherwell change tact and go for it and we make a ****ing change that was NOT needed. We had gained a 4 goal advantage by doing - just when we were all fooled into thinking Yogi had this one sewn up, he goes and steals a draw (and very nearly a defeat) from the jaws of a massive 6 ****ing 2 win!!!

He whips of Riordan, who is NOT a forward (if you want to shut up shop, remove Nish or Stokes - NOT cause their doing bad - both done very well - but because you dont care about scoring more) and bring on a defender/defensive midfielder....

Then, if necessary, do that again later in the game.

Naw, we bring off our ****ing playmaker and goalscorer and leave on two forwards.

THEN, we bring off a forward and bring on ANOTHER forward when we MUST protect a slim 1 goal margin.

WHERE IS THE TACTICS AND THINKING IN THIS????


Please someone explain and justify these subs? If someone can do it, I'd love to hear it. Its not logical. It's not sensible. It's not even possible TO explain it because it defies all logic.

Add to that our defense was sheite, our keeper was found wanting and we did nothing to change THAT and THAT is where our problems lie.

However, Im sure collectively he'll blame the players, the pitch, Riordan, Nish, Stokes etc - the PROBLEM is Yogi's poor substitutions. NOTHING ELSE.

It was NOT broken at 6-2....and if you are going to change it, at least make a change that makes SENSE...bring off a forward for a defender. NOT a left midfielder/playmaker.

Then, if necessary repeat to protect....Benji??? Why?

Fak it. Am gettin pissed off just thinking aboot this again.

ENDOF :brickwall:brickwall:brickwall:brickwall:brickwall


I think I was at a different game from some as for me the subsitutions had nothing whatsoever to do with the result.

What comfort are you all getting from making this stuff up?

I'd rather we focused on the actual causes of our problems which is what everyone at the club will hopefully be doing.

[blackpoolhibs]

The problems we had last night...let's see.

Scoring goals? Nope.

Setting up goals? Nope.

Tracking back defensively...possibly.

Shutting up shop with a THREE goal margin - for sure. Shutting up shop witha FOUR goal margin - utterly ****ing criminal!!!

The forwards (and midfield) come back with more goals, more chances and ultimately put the game beyond the opposition at 6-2.

Then what happens...Motherwell change tact and go for it and we make a ****ing change that was NOT needed. We had gained a 4 goal advantage by doing - just when we were all fooled into thinking Yogi had this one sewn up, he goes and steals a draw (and very nearly a defeat) from the jaws of a massive 6 ****ing 2 win!!!

He whips of Riordan, who is NOT a forward (if you want to shut up shop, remove Nish or Stokes - NOT cause their doing bad - both done very well - but because you dont care about scoring more) and bring on a defender/defensive midfielder....

Then, if necessary, do that again later in the game.

Naw, we bring off our ****ing playmaker and goalscorer and leave on two forwards.

THEN, we bring off a forward and bring on ANOTHER forward when we MUST protect a slim 1 goal margin.

WHERE IS THE TACTICS AND THINKING IN THIS????


Please someone explain and justify these subs? If someone can do it, I'd love to hear it. Its not logical. It's not sensible. It's not even possible TO explain it because it defies all logic.

Add to that our defense was sheite, our keeper was found wanting and we did nothing to change THAT and THAT is where our problems lie.

However, Im sure collectively he'll blame the players, the pitch, Riordan, Nish, Stokes etc - the PROBLEM is Yogi's poor substitutions. NOTHING ELSE.

It was NOT broken at 6-2....and if you are going to change it, at least make a change that makes SENSE...bring off a forward for a defender. NOT a left midfielder/playmaker.

Then, if necessary repeat to protect....Benji??? Why?

Fak it. Am gettin pissed off just thinking aboot this again.

ENDOF :brickwall:brickwall:brickwall:brickwall:brickwall

We were 2-1 up at parkead, and 1-0 up against hearts, and people are screaming for us to change the midfield, shore it up. We do this yesterday and its wrong, not needed.:confused: Its an easy job this football management, especially when you can never get a result wrong, or make a decision that affects the result

[BEEJ]

umpteen times you've mentioned only 1 or 2 players needed so i'll take the bait.would it be a good idea when with important games still to play to say in public that half my squad are either bottlers or aren't up to it and i'll punt them if anybody will have them ?
i dont.
Something like:

"There are some players here who are now playing for their futures at this club."

might just instil in the squad that fear of losing that we seem to lack at the moment.

[Captain Trips]

If Hughes had put a sack of spuds on instead of Riordan that still does not in any way shape or form detract from the point that we had 3 to 4 goals scored against us that were absolutley dreadfully dealt with by the defence and keeper.

Maybe taking him off created more room, I dont care if it did it never created anything of danger it was the players fault that turned these chances into danger. No matter what Hughes did players were asked simple questions on abilty and were found lacking and not for first time.

If Riordan had been say sent off I would still blame the defenders for not dealing with simple tasks.

[Bad Martini]

I think I was at a different game from some as for me the subsitutions had nothing whatsoever to do with the result.

And for me, removing a midfielder who was all over the pitch, scored and set-one up AND tracked back was NOT the way to prevent more goals going in against us or help us to score more. You tell me why Riordan was to be removed and what it done to HELP the cause?

IF (And I say IF) somebody was to be removed, we should have removed an out and out forward...this could have been done with a defender if necessary for this would have been a good way to PROTECT what we had. FAIL.

THEN, when we DID need to protect what we had at 6-5 Yogi takes off a forward (good move) and replaces him with a FORWARD................it does not take a brain surgeon to work out this is not the way to help our defensive cause...

So, please tell me how these subs did NOT influence the game????


What comfort are you all getting from making this stuff up?

Making up what? Yogi DID make these changes. They DID **** up our win in my opinion.

Just to be clear, I get NO pleasure in seeing Hibs lose. I get NO pleasure in seeing our European hopes all but disappear doon the lavy. I got NO pleasure, joy or even hint of anything good to even be discussing our shortcomings when a 6-2 win was on the cards. Do you?


I'd rather we focused on the actual causes of our problems which is what everyone at the club will hopefully be doing.

So would I. In my opinion, the cause is the Manager. He picks the team, plays the team, picks the tactics and makes the changes. Changes can win or lose games and last night, IMHO, they did NOT do a thing to help us win. Like changes Hughes had made before, in other games....




We were 2-1 up at parkead, and 1-0 up against hearts, and people are screaming for us to change the midfield, shore it up. We do this yesterday and its wrong, not needed.:confused: Its an easy job this football management, especially when you can never get a result wrong, or make a decision that affects the result

It is an easy job.

Shore it up with the right players and take off the right players.

As I say above. Take of your out and out forwards, shore up the defence and the midfield. Dont take of a forward for a forward or a midfielder like Riordan and replace with a player who cannot do the same job or role when that is still needed.

IMHO.

[SalfordHibs]

i couldnt help but laugh at this though.

big nishy's contribution should have won the game on its own but he only did ok :rolleyes:

gie the guy a break FFS

After 60mins he was blowing out of his arse, that's when it should have been changed, Riordan was still causing them problems at that point.

I said Nish played alright cause that's what it was, he wasn't brillant or outstanding, still witnessed the hands in the air while on the deck, and the miss placed passes.

[3pm]

There is no shape to anything we do defensively. We have no idea - Hughes has to take the blame for that. We should be difficult to beat but we aren't.

We were bad at the back on Saturday, we were worse last night.

Shocking.

[SalfordHibs]

There is no shape to anything we do defensively. We have no idea - Hughes has to take the blame for that. We should be difficult to beat but we aren't.

We were bad at the back on Saturday, we were worse last night.

Shocking.

Maybe as this was his position as a player he doesn't want to blame the defence, as that is one place he should have had sorted in the two windows.

[1875 NO 1]

They played as well as i have seen them play in years, to go 6-2 up, playing the same system we have played all season. Then our keeper decided to play without arms and hands again, just like saturday.:grr: On saturday, the managers is slaughtered for not taking a forward off, and bulking up the midfield with another midfielder. At 6-2 he does just that, but reading this board, he was wrong for doing that?

What could the manager have done that would have stopped us winning easily? I know, shot that ****in idiot Smith. This one is entirely down to the players, and nobody else.

he could have done something to stop the supply to O'Biren, who continually put in dangerous balls into our box

At 4 -1 he could have taken Deek and Stoakes to keep them fresh for Sunday. And went with a solid midfiled 5 with Nishy up to. A bit like the Huns play in Europe.

When Smith lost the plot he could have subbed him for Maka

Every time the launced it long Jutkiewicz won evey header off Hanlon. Hanlon kept getting caught under the ball. Yogi should have told him to stand a yard off his man and get a run and jump.

He could have put McBride to sweeper behind Hanlon and Hogg to win the 2nd ball as we were loosing all long balls.

He has not tactically ability and time for him to go. Sorry he has one tactic - bring on Benji for the 23rd time this season.

The question i ask is he going to learn that by next season? Id say no so why keep him as manager.

[blackpoolhibs]

It is an easy job.

Shore it up with the right players and take off the right players.

As I say above. Take of your out and out forwards, shore up the defence and the midfield. Dont take of a forward for a forward or a midfielder like Riordan and replace with a player who cannot do the same job or role when that is still needed.

IMHO.

You talk about the substitutions influencing the game, i'd wager the goalkeeper, and i use that word loosely, had much more influence than any substitution yogi has made all season.

[blackpoolhibs]

he could have done something to stop the supply to O'Biren, who continually put in dangerous balls into our box
He did, he replaced Riordan, who with all the will in the world, is not the best defender, and pushed Rankin there, a better defender. Or maybe he didnt, thats what i think i saw?
At 4 -1 he could have taken Deek and Stoakes to keep them fresh for Sunday. And went with a solid midfiled 5 with Nishy up to. A bit like the Huns play in Europe.
Yes he could have, but he never, and they then managed to go 6-2 up
When Smith lost the plot he could have subbed him for Maka
Yes, i agree.
Every time the launced it long Jutkiewicz won evey header off Hanlon. Hanlon kept getting caught under the ball. Yogi should have told him to stand a yard off his man and get a run and jump.
:faf: do you mean hold their hands
He could have put McBride to sweeper behind Hanlon and Hogg to win the 2nd ball as we were loosing all long balls.
:faf:
He has not tactically ability and time for him to go. Sorry he has one tactic - bring on Benji for the 23rd time this season.
Aye no tactical ability, 5th great chance of 4th, and European football
The question i ask is he going to learn that by next season? Id say no so why keep him as manager.
We have more points than last season.A higher place finish. A chance of Europe. Better league placing than Yams. New stand. New pitch. 14 more goals than last season, 7 more than the previous season. 3 more wins than last season. Thats progress for you.

[sunshine1875]

The problems we had last night...let's see.

Scoring goals? Nope.

Setting up goals? Nope.

Tracking back defensively...possibly.

Shutting up shop with a THREE goal margin - for sure. Shutting up shop witha FOUR goal margin - utterly ****ing criminal!!!

The forwards (and midfield) come back with more goals, more chances and ultimately put the game beyond the opposition at 6-2.

Then what happens...Motherwell change tact and go for it and we make a ****ing change that was NOT needed. We had gained a 4 goal advantage by doing - just when we were all fooled into thinking Yogi had this one sewn up, he goes and steals a draw (and very nearly a defeat) from the jaws of a massive 6 ****ing 2 win!!!

He whips of Riordan, who is NOT a forward (if you want to shut up shop, remove Nish or Stokes - NOT cause their doing bad - both done very well - but because you dont care about scoring more) and bring on a defender/defensive midfielder....

Then, if necessary, do that again later in the game.

Naw, we bring off our ****ing playmaker and goalscorer and leave on two forwards.

THEN, we bring off a forward and bring on ANOTHER forward when we MUST protect a slim 1 goal margin.

WHERE IS THE TACTICS AND THINKING IN THIS????


Please someone explain and justify these subs? If someone can do it, I'd love to hear it. Its not logical. It's not sensible. It's not even possible TO explain it because it defies all logic.

Add to that our defense was sheite, our keeper was found wanting and we did nothing to change THAT and THAT is where our problems lie.

However, Im sure collectively he'll blame the players, the pitch, Riordan, Nish, Stokes etc - the PROBLEM is Yogi's poor substitutions. NOTHING ELSE.

It was NOT broken at 6-2....and if you are going to change it, at least make a change that makes SENSE...bring off a forward for a defender. NOT a left midfielder/playmaker.

Then, if necessary repeat to protect....Benji??? Why?

Fak it. Am gettin pissed off just thinking aboot this again.

ENDOF :brickwall:brickwall:brickwall:brickwall:brickwall

Agree 100%. Yogi's use of substitutions is a disgrace.

I have no problem in putting on McBride, but taking off Riordan was the was the wrong option. I would have kept Nish for his aerial presence and instead taken off Stokes who had run down a few blind alleys late on. But to be honest, I have no major gripe about personel change.

But then to put on Benji for Stokes was unbelievable. The change should have been Cregg or Stevenson for Stokes.

Then to not make the third sub in the final seconds to break up play, stiffen up the team and to bring on fresh legs was the last straw for me.

I really am struggling to understand why anyone is still defending him. It is not as if last nights game was a one-off. Poor substitutions (or lack of them) is what Yogi seems to excel at.

[MSK]

We have more points than last season.A higher place finish. A chance of Europe. Better league placing than Yams. New stand. New pitch. 14 more goals than last season, 7 more than the previous season. 3 more wins than last season. Thats progress for you.And losing fans by the thousand ...if thats progress then please spare me the failure !!!

[sunshine1875]

We have more points than last season.A higher place finish. A chance of Europe. Better league placing than Yams. New stand. New pitch. 14 more goals than last season, 7 more than the previous season. 3 more wins than last season. Thats progress for you.

What is it now 9 points out of a possible 45? Yes - real progress!

Based on the games since mid-February, we are likely to be amongst the favourites for relegation. Tell you what though, at least we have a manager who is experienced in such situations. I wonder why.:coffee:

[blackpoolhibs]

And losing fans by the thousand ...if thats progress then please spare me the failure !!!

They will all be back, when we play our first European tie.

[MSK]

They will all be back, when we play our first European tie.Doubt it ..i very much doubt it ...explain then since you are the happy clapping ambassador for hibs & hibs.net ..if progress is being made ...why are we losing fans by the week ..why are home crowds down & continually falling ..?

[cammy1969]

we got battered for the last 20 min's after we subed deeks for mcbride and what did he do ? nothing thats what oh sorry he brings on benji in the 88 min now even yogis biggest defenders cant say that was good management

[Barney McGrew]

We have more points than last season.A higher place finish. A chance of Europe. Better league placing than Yams. New stand. New pitch. 14 more goals than last season, 7 more than the previous season. 3 more wins than last season. Thats progress for you.

Stats can tell you anything you them want to:

Current form (last 6 games)

Team P W D L F A Pts
Celtic 6 6 0 0 14 4 18
Hamilton 6 4 1 1 11 3 13
Rangers 6 4 1 1 9 4 13
St Johnstone 6 2 3 1 8 6 9
Falkirk 6 2 2 2 4 4 8
Dundee Utd 6 2 2 2 5 6 8
Hearts 6 2 2 2 4 6 8
St Mirren 6 1 4 1 6 6 7
Kilmarnock 6 2 0 4 5 8 6
Motherwell 6 1 1 4 11 16 4
Aberdeen 6 1 1 4 6 12 4
Hibernian 6 0 1 5 10 17 1

2 wins in 17
9 goals more conceded than last season, 10 more than the season before that
More games lost than last season, the same number as the season before that

Not much progress that I can see.

[blackpoolhibs]

Doubt it ..i very much doubt it ...explain then since you are the happy clapping ambassador for hibs & hibs.net ..if progress is being made ...why are we losing fans by the week ..why are home crowds down & continually falling ..?

Rangers crowds are down, can you explain that?

[blackpoolhibs]

Stats can tell you anything you want to:

Current form (last 6 games)
Team P W D L F A Pts
Celtic 6 6 0 0 14 4 18
Hamilton 6 4 1 1 11 3 13
Rangers 6 4 1 1 9 4 13
St Johnstone 6 2 3 1 8 6 9
Falkirk 6 2 2 2 4 4 8
Dundee Utd 6 2 2 2 5 6 8
Hearts 6 2 2 2 4 6 8
St Mirren 6 1 4 1 6 6 7
Kilmarnock 6 2 0 4 5 8 6
Motherwell 6 1 1 4 11 16 4
Aberdeen 6 1 1 4 6 12 4
Hibernian 6 0 1 5 10 17 1

What are they like for the season? Where are we in the league?

[cammy1969]

Rangers crowds are down, can you explain that?
and thats got to do with hibs what exactly

[Jim44]

Something like:

"There are some players here who are now playing for their futures at this club."

might just instil in the squad that fear of losing that we seem to lack at the moment.

A more relevant point might be - "There are some players here who are now playing for my future at this club."

[blackpoolhibs]

and thats got to do with hibs what exactly

Crowds in Scotland are down, for every team. The recession, people have less money, there are many reasons. As i said, if success on the park means more people through the doors, why are Rangers crowds down?

[MSK]

Rangers crowds are down, can you explain that?Re-read my question ..im talking about hibs & the so-called "progress" ..not rangers ..

[PaulSmith]

Something like:

"There are some players here who are now playing for their futures at this club."

might just instil in the squad that fear of losing that we seem to lack at the moment.

Having spoken to a couple of players very recently they are in absolutely no doubt that they are playing for their Hibs future, in fact one said that if your not doing the job then Yogi will bin you without even blinking.

Hughes has also said this publicy in that some players won't be able to take him to where he wants and some will fall by the way side.

[down the slope]

They will all be back, when we play our first European tie.

Oh no we won't, how you can defend what has been happening to our club AND still maintain we are progressing !!!!!, fan power will have it's day in the near future believe me. We should not be standing for this level of incompetence and to support it just beggars belief.

[Barney McGrew]

What are they like for the season? Where are we in the league?

We're dropping like a stone, as you well know.

So no comment on the other points?

More league defeats
More goals conceded
2 wins in 17

Again, where is the progress in that?

[blackpoolhibs]

Re-read my question ..im talking about hibs & the so-called "progress" ..not rangers ..

The progress is there for all to see in my signature, those are the FACTS. You can take a period of the season to try and manipulate your point, to suite your argument. But the manager should be judged over a season, not just part of it.

Crowds in Scotland are down, for every team. The recession, people have less money, there are many reasons. As i said, if success on the park means more people through the doors, why are Rangers crowds down?

[Captain Trips]

No matter what its Hughes its the players no its Hughes, its both at times its Hughes at times players, last night im with BH that was players, other times Hughes has made errors.

Under 2 managers ive seen the same players make the same poor passes and poor defending and IMO the first people who should go are some of the players, im not interested in Hughes or another manager trying to work with these clowns any more.

If Hughes does not make the noises about wholesale changes then I will think he isnt up to task, 1st season is there to iron out things and try and progress see what your players do, 2nd is to move on the ones that are a let down and there are many.

[PaulSmith]

No matter what its Hughes its the players no its Hughes, its both at times its Hughes at times players, last night im with BH that was players, other times Hughes has made errors.

Under 2 managers ive seen the same players make the same poor passes and poor defending and IMO the first people who should go are some of the players, im not interested in Hughes or another manager trying to work with these clowns any more.

If Hughes does not make the noises about wholesale changes then I will think he isnt up to task, 1st season is there to iron out things and try and progress see what your players do, 2nd is to move on the ones that are a let down and there are many.

Absolutely. :top marks

[JimBHibees]

we got battered for the last 20 min's after we subed deeks for mcbride and what did he do ? nothing thats what oh sorry he brings on benji in the 88 min now even yogis biggest defenders cant say that was good management

The Benji sub was just to run the clock down nothing more.

[Barney McGrew]

You can take a period of the season to try and manipulate your point, to suite your argument. But the manager should be judged over a season, not just part of it.

So why were you constantly on here wanting Mixu punted half way through last season then?

[blackpoolhibs]

We're dropping like a stone, as you well know.

So no comment on the other points?

More league defeats
More goals conceded
2 wins in 17

Again, where is the progress in that?

We have more points than last season.A higher place finish. A chance of Europe. Better league placing than Yams. New stand. New pitch. 14 more goals than last season, 7 more than the previous season. 3 more wins than last season. Thats progress for you. THIS IS APPARENTLY NOT ENOUGH THESE DAYS.:bitchy:

[Andy74]

Oh no we won't, how you can defend what has been happening to our club AND still maintain we are progressing !!!!!, fan power will have it's day in the near future believe me. We should not be standing for this level of incompetence and to support it just beggars belief.

If you believe that then go and get enough fans to do something about it.

Me, Iive just got my new East Stand season ticket and another for my daughter.

You can't honestly chart progress on a 12 week period which includes a number of factors like Zemmama out for the season, Bamba unavailable for long stretches, McBride out for a long period. Stevenson and Mccormack playing matches! Crap pitches and the East stand going.

Progress must be charted over the season and that shows a team who spent the majority of the time in 3rd place and have never been below 5th.

If the team overall really is as poor as the last few weeks suggest we wouldn't have been able to achieve any of that.

And this isn't the end of the progress it's the beginning, we have to allow the manager to get his own players in and work with them over a longer period.

[blackpoolhibs]

So why were you constantly on here wanting Yogi punted half way through last season then?

I'm sure you mean Mixu. When did Mixu have us 3rd? When did Mixu have us challenging for Europe going into the last game of the season? Mixu was with us 18-20 months, we were never at any time of his management challenging for anything, other than a top 6 place, Yogi has managed that with ease, and deserves more time.

[Barney McGrew]

I'm sure you mean Mixu. When did Mixu have us 3rd? When did Mixu have us challenging for Europe going into the last game of the season? Mixu was with us 18-20 months, we were never at any time of his management challenging for anything, other than a top 6 place, Yogi has managed that with ease, and deserves more time.

Still doesn't back up your point. You said the manager needs to be judged over a season, not part of it and a period of time that 'suites'. In fact even going into the top six last season we could still qualify for europe, so your argument falls down there too.

So it's OK to ask for one manager to be punted half way through a season, but another one needs more time?

You need to get more consistency in your wind ups :wink:

[cammy1969]

The Benji sub was just to run the clock down nothing more.
my point is m8 for the last 20 min we got bettered and he just stood there surely you would take off a forward and flood the midfield and try and see the game out

[blackpoolhibs]

Still doesn't back up your point. You said the manager needs to be judged over a season, not part of it and a period of time that 'suites'. In fact even going into the top six last season we could still qualify for europe, so your argument falls down there too.

So it's OK to ask for one manager to be punted half way through a season, but another one needs more time?

You need to get more consistency in your wind ups :wink:

Not at all, Mixu had a season and a half. If we were doing as badly as we have been doing at xmas, i'd be saying the same about Yogi.

[Beefster]

I'm sure you mean Mixu. When did Mixu have us 3rd? When did Mixu have us challenging for Europe going into the last game of the season? Mixu was with us 18-20 months, we were never at any time of his management challenging for anything, other than a top 6 place, Yogi has managed that with ease, and deserves more time.

Mixu had us in 3rd after about 10 games last season. You were still calling for his head at the time - you didn't wait for a full season to be completed.

[BEEJ]

Rangers crowds are down, can you explain that?
Dismal performances in Europe and losing more SPL points at Ibrox than the Hun faithful are used to. Add to that the club's financial woes and their inability to spend on higher calibre players like they once did.

Rightly or wrongly, they regard European competition as their measuring stick of success and this season has brought a healthy dose of reality to them.

But what does any of that have to do with Hibs? :confused:

[blackpoolhibs]

my point is m8 for the last 20 min we got bettered and he just stood there surely you would take off a forward and flood the midfield and try and see the game out

:faf::faf:

[cammy1969]

:faf::faf:
and your point is

[J-C]

Still doesn't back up your point. You said the manager needs to be judged over a season, not part of it and a period of time that 'suites'. In fact even going into the top six last season we could still qualify for europe, so your argument falls down there too.

So it's OK to ask for one manager to be punted half way through a season, but another one needs more time?

You need to get more consistency in your wind ups :wink:


Mixu was obviously not getting anywhere with the team, the football was dire(constant hoofball) and we struggled to get top 6, time to go.....Yogi had us pushing for 3rd, better quality players in general, top 6 with ease and still in there for Europa, keep him till next season and hope we improve further.....if not then we can say punt him.

[blackpoolhibs]

and your point is

We did make the midfield stronger, taking riordan off, pushing Rankin wide and playing McBride did this. With Nish dropping in there, we were virtually playing 4-5-1. Perhaps i'm wrong, and we did not do this. Perhaps it was all down to Riordan being hooked, and had nothing to do with coco the clown in goal, handing them 3 goals?

[MSK]

The progress is there for all to see in my signature, those are the FACTS. You can take a period of the season to try and manipulate your point, to suite your argument. But the manager should be judged over a season, not just part of it.

Crowds in Scotland are down, for every team. The recession, people have less money, there are many reasons. As i said, if success on the park means more people through the doors, why are Rangers crowds down?2 wins in 17 games does not equate to progress ...FACT....we are playing against some of the poorest teams since the inception of the SPL & that includes the old firm ...FACT....thats not manipulating points to suit my arguement, unlike you im not "dressing" anything up...

Turn this on its head... 2 wins from 17 at the start of the season would see us planted firmly at the bottom of the pile ..our only saving grace is that most of the teams in the SPL are as pish as us !!

Progress !!!! :faf:

[Keith_M]

Craig Brown told his players at half time to keep on going, because Hibs always concede late goals. Hasn't it got to a sad state of affairs that the opposition manager sees the teams problems before our own?

Why exactly are our team conceding so many goals? Why can't they hang on to a lead? If it's lack of fitness, then the coaching staff need looked at.

[blackpoolhibs]

Mixu had us in 3rd after about 10 games last season. You were still calling for his head at the time - you didn't wait for a full season to be completed.

Why would you lie? Although it does make your point look more valid.:bitchy: Here's a task for you. Go find these posts, were i wanted Mixu out when we were 3rd, and there will be a donation to the Dnipro appeal. If not, will you match this?

[J-C]

my point is m8 for the last 20 min we got bettered and he just stood there surely you would take off a forward and flood the midfield and try and see the game out


Did Cregg not replace Riordan to do just that?

[cammy1969]

We did make the midfield stronger, taking riordan off, pushing Rankin wide and playing McBride did this. With Nish dropping in there, we were virtually playing 4-5-1. Perhaps i'm wrong, and we did not do this. Perhaps it was all down to Riordan being hooked, and had nothing to do with coco the clown in goal, handing them 3 goals?
i don't think anyones saying the players were blameless but it was plain for everyone to see that we needed another change as they had us pined in so do you think he was right to leave it as it was

[PaulSmith]

Craig Brown told his players at half time to keep on going, because Hibs always concede late goals. Hasn't it got to a sad state of affairs that the opposition manager sees the teams problems before our own?

Why exactly are our team conceding so many goals? Why can't they hang on to a lead? If it's lack of fitness, then the coaching staff need looked at.

Why have we scored so many late goals this season as well?

[blackpoolhibs]

2 wins in 17 games does not equate to progress ...FACT....we are playing against some of the poorest teams since the inception of the SPL & that includes the old firm ...FACT....thats not manipulating points to suit my arguement, unlike you im not "dressing" anything up...

Turn this on its head... 2 wins from 17 at the start of the season would see us planted firmly at the bottom of the pile ..our only saving grace is that most of the teams in the SPL are as pish as us !!

Progress !!!! :faf:

The only FACT i'm interested in, is the one that says were are in Europe, that will hopefully be confirmed next sunday. You only get that by your league position over a whole season. That will do for me.

[matty_f]

No matter what its Hughes its the players no its Hughes, its both at times its Hughes at times players, last night im with BH that was players, other times Hughes has made errors.

Under 2 managers ive seen the same players make the same poor passes and poor defending and IMO the first people who should go are some of the players, im not interested in Hughes or another manager trying to work with these clowns any more.

If Hughes does not make the noises about wholesale changes then I will think he isnt up to task, 1st season is there to iron out things and try and progress see what your players do, 2nd is to move on the ones that are a let down and there are many.
:top marks

[MSK]

Did Cregg not replace Riordan to do just that?Cregg didnt replace Riordan..it was Mcbride ..

[Andy74]

Craig Brown told his players at half time to keep on going, because Hibs always concede late goals. Hasn't it got to a sad state of affairs that the opposition manager sees the teams problems before our own?

Why exactly are our team conceding so many goals? Why can't they hang on to a lead? If it's lack of fitness, then the coaching staff need looked at.

Lack of ability, experience, nerves when on a bad run and you are in a good position?

Hughes know this, why do you think Brown realised before Hughes??

It's not fitness, it is mentally switching off or panicking or plain just not having the ability to get away with it for 90 odd minutes in some cases.

Changing the manager won't address that, changing some of the players and the attitude of the other players over time will, as well as others getting more experience.

[cammy1969]

Did Cregg not replace Riordan to do just that?
eh no mcbride came on for deek and imo at that time we did not need that change if we were going to change it then take off nish or stokes for mcbride as rankin was doing ok in cm and we could have kept the same midfield and added mcbride to it and gave them less space now thats just in imo

[J-C]

No matter what its Hughes its the players no its Hughes, its both at times its Hughes at times players, last night im with BH that was players, other times Hughes has made errors.

Under 2 managers ive seen the same players make the same poor passes and poor defending and IMO the first people who should go are some of the players, im not interested in Hughes or another manager trying to work with these clowns any more.

If Hughes does not make the noises about wholesale changes then I will think he isnt up to task, 1st season is there to iron out things and try and progress see what your players do, 2nd is to move on the ones that are a let down and there are many.

:top marks

Exactly, that's why Mixu left after his 1st full season, it was plainly obvious midway through his 2nd season he hadn't a clue, Yogi needs to start proving his worth as of next season, or else.

[blackpoolhibs]

i don't think anyones saying the players were blameless but it was plain for everyone to see that we needed another change as they had us pined in so do you think he was right to leave it as it was

A goalkeeper with hands was all we needed, no matter what subs the manager made. What would you have said if we put cregg on in midfield, and took stokes off, yet lost 7-6? I suppose that would have been handing them the initiative?

[J-C]

eh no mcbride came on for deek and imo at that time we did not need that change if we were going to change it then take off nish or stokes for mcbride as rankin was doing ok in cm and we could have kept the same midfield and added mcbride to it and gave them less space now thats just in imo

Sorry, meant Mcbride.

[blackpoolhibs]

eh no mcbride came on for deek and imo at that time we did not need that change if we were going to change it then take off nish or stokes for mcbride as rankin was doing ok in cm and we could have kept the same midfield and added mcbride to it and gave them less space now thats just in imo

Its easy this internet management.

[Captain Trips]

The dissaponting thing is we have some of the best players in the SPL going forward and unfortunatly we have some that are not up to task, I believe if they are moved on and better players are signed we will do well, and thats with Hughes.

1 or 2 new faces will just end up with Hughes getting sacked and that will be his own fault, if the players are playing for futures then he will be signing and scouting for his, I can see everyones points on the form on everything and there is a case for his sacking 100% absolutley.

For me I would see what his plans are and if we are talking big changes I would allow him that over summer.

[cammy1969]

A goalkeeper with hands was all we needed, no matter what subs the manager made. What would you have said if we put cregg on in midfield, and took stokes off, yet lost 7-6? I suppose that would have been handing them the initiative?
the big word there is IF but as he never lets talk about the facts we gave a way a 4 goal lead and only made 1 change apart from the last min well he should have changed the keeper then imo he made the wrong change at the wrong time and that was the start of the down fall

[MSK]

Its easy this internet management.You've obviously been taking lessons from Vlad ...you both talk the same amount of ***** too ..

[blackpoolhibs]

You've obviously been taking lessons from Vlad ...you both talk the same amount of ***** too ..

Thanks. :bitchy:

[cammy1969]

Its easy this internet management.
well instead off we snide comments if you think any off my points are wrong tell us what you think

[blackpoolhibs]

the big word there is IF but as he never lets talk about the facts we gave a way a 4 goal lead and only made 1 change apart from the last min well he should have changed the keeper then imo he made the wrong change at the wrong time and that was the start of the down fall

:faf::faf:

[vahibbie]

The only FACT i'm interested in, is the one that says were are in Europe, that will hopefully be confirmed next sunday. You only get that by your league position over a whole season. That will do for me.

And if it's not confirmed on Sunday?

The expectation of taking something from DU away can't be good, even tho it's a non game for them. Then if they lose the Cup we're out on our erse.
Hope your Mr Happy is still smiling after putting up with total *****e for months and getting no return.

Never mind you can still call it progress and it makes all so much better.
:faf::faf::faf:

[MSK]

Thanks. :bitchy:Your welcome ..anytime ..

[Beefster]

Why would you lie? Although it does make your point look more valid.:bitchy: Here's a task for you. Go find these posts, were i wanted Mixu out when we were 3rd, and there will be a donation to the Dnipro appeal. If not, will you match this?

Posts don't go far enough back unfortunately.

I may be wrong but I seem to recall you wanting rid after the pre-season games. If I'm wrong, when did you start calling for his head?

[cammy1969]

:faf::faf:
there we go again cant answer so put smilies very good

[blackpoolhibs]

Posts don't go far enough back unfortunately.

I may be wrong but I seem to recall you wanting rid after the pre-season games. If I'm wrong, when did you start calling for his head?

After the cup defeat against Hearts at easter road.

[Captain Trips]

To many people are over analysing this substitution IMO it had no real bearing, Mwell didnt start playing world class football after it, they scored goals from normal chances that are just as likely to have croped up no matter.

Im sure they would have got a corner no matter what subs were made, its about what we did when these chances were created and sadly errors were all over place. All situations were defendable and the defending was poor, the keeper was also poor. We can argue all day about would these chances have occured if Riordan had stayed on we will never know.

What happened from 6-2 are situations we will face every week no matter how we play a corner a freekick etc, the players showed that they did not have it in them to defend these situations.

[blackpoolhibs]

there we go again cant answer so put smilies very good

Going round in circles, the keeper threw 3 goals in, you want the midfield strengthened, we did that, you want the keeper subbed now. Big big circles.

[Keith_M]

To many people are over analysing this substitution IMO it had no real bearing, Mwell didnt start playing world class football after it, they scored goals from normal chances that are just as likely to have croped up no matter.

Im sure they would have got a corner no matter what subs were made, its about what we did when these chances were created and sadly errors were all over place. All situations were defendable and the defending was poor, the keeper was also poor. We can argue all day about would these chances have occured if Riordan had stayed on we will never know.

What happened from 6-2 are situations we will face every week no matter how we play a corner a freekick etc, the players showed that they did not have it in them to defend these situations.


:agree:


What he said.

[matty_f]

To many people are over analysing this substitution IMO it had no real bearing, Mwell didnt start playing world class football after it, they scored goals from normal chances that are just as likely to have croped up no matter.

Im sure they would have got a corner no matter what subs were made, its about what we did when these chances were created and sadly errors were all over place. All situations were defendable and the defending was poor, the keeper was also poor. We can argue all day about would these chances have occured if Riordan had stayed on we will never know.

What happened from 6-2 are situations we will face every week no matter how we play a corner a freekick etc, the players showed that they did not have it in them to defend these situations.

Well put. :agree:

[cammy1969]

Going round in circles, the keeper threw 3 goals in, you want the midfield strengthened, we did that, you want the keeper subbed now. Big big circles.
no im asking YOU what we should have done as YOU keep shooting everyone down when they say what they would do it all about opinions on here so id just like to know what YOU would do ive gave mine im not saying im right just giving an opinion

[KWJ]

It's frankly scary how obsessive the get yogi to **** mob actually are on here.

Not being able to fathom the slightest bit of Yogi defending has been rife, especially so in the past week but it's been there since March.

Any fan looking in here would see how we've done over the whole season, where we are in the league and that we've still got something to play for in the last game of the season. They'd then probably think we've had a good season on the back of that.

I understand the frustration, hell I'm frustrated too. I can understand and even agree with a fair whack of the criticism being dealt at Yogi and the players. What I'm getting pissed off at is so many people finding it uncomprehnsible that I, and many others, have a different view to them on our current manager.

Should probably take a break from the board before I become a keyboard hardnut and tell somebody to get tae ****. The negativity and more worryingly the mob mentality is painful to read.

[blackpoolhibs]

no im asking YOU what we should have done as YOU keep shooting everyone down when they say what they would do it all about opinions on here so id just like to know what YOU would do ive gave mine im not saying im right just giving an opinion

I'd have taken Stokes off, and put McBride on, put Riordan in Stokes place and put Rankin wide left. But i have no idea if that would have changed the way the game went. Motherwell would still have got corners, had shots and crosses, would Smith have cocked up as badly with a different formation in front of him? I have no idea, but he did, and that had nothing to do with who was on the pitch in front of him.

[J-C]

Does anyone on here actually think that at 6-2 Yogi ecpected the team to just capitulate like they did, specially when we were so far in front, no I thought as much. It was obvious that at that time like everyone else he thought the game was wrapped up, the front 3 had stopped working, so he brought in a so called defensive midfielder to shore things up, which he didn't do. I also don't think Yogi expected the goalkeeper to make 3 blatant errors(4 if you take the penalty) and gift them 3 goals, christ almighty even Maka didn't make that many mistakes in 1 game, I'm positive if Maka had been playing only the last goal they scored might've gone in.

[Andy74]

To many people are over analysing this substitution IMO it had no real bearing, Mwell didnt start playing world class football after it, they scored goals from normal chances that are just as likely to have croped up no matter.

Im sure they would have got a corner no matter what subs were made, its about what we did when these chances were created and sadly errors were all over place. All situations were defendable and the defending was poor, the keeper was also poor. We can argue all day about would these chances have occured if Riordan had stayed on we will never know.

What happened from 6-2 are situations we will face every week no matter how we play a corner a freekick etc, the players showed that they did not have it in them to defend these situations.

Absolutely right, they way were defending it seemed all night that goals would be scored and I've never been so sure at 6-2 that we would not win the game. I wish I'd stuck cash on at 6-2 for a draw!

The first sub was in theory the right thing to do but it made no real odds good bad or otherwise to the game, so it was not a deciding factor in any way shape or form. I'm presuming the people suggesting this weren't actually there and just thought that this should be the case looking at it after the fact.

The second one was neither here nor there. Stokes was staying high up the pitch for the out ball when we were defending and Benji just took that role on for a very short time.

Neither McBride nor Benji chucked the ball in our net, failed to cut out crosses or refused to head balls coming for their heads or contributed to the ball being in those areas in the first place.

Smith, Hogg and Hanlon are still high on my list of culprits!

[Sergio sledge]

The problems we had last night...let's see.

Scoring goals? Nope.

Setting up goals? Nope.

Tracking back defensively...possibly.

Shutting up shop with a THREE goal margin - for sure. Shutting up shop witha FOUR goal margin - utterly ****ing criminal!!!

:agree:



The forwards (and midfield) come back with more goals, more chances and ultimately put the game beyond the opposition at 6-2.

Then what happens...Motherwell change tact and go for it and we make a ****ing change that was NOT needed. We had gained a 4 goal advantage by doing - just when we were all fooled into thinking Yogi had this one sewn up, he goes and steals a draw (and very nearly a defeat) from the jaws of a massive 6 ****ing 2 win!!!

Did he? In the game I was watching, the players threw away a four goal lead through basic mistakes.


He whips of Riordan, who is NOT a forward (if you want to shut up shop, remove Nish or Stokes - NOT cause their doing bad - both done very well - but because you dont care about scoring more) and bring on a defender/defensive midfielder....

Then, if necessary, do that again later in the game.

Naw, we bring off our ****ing playmaker and goalscorer and leave on two forwards.

Riordan not a forward?! What a load of rubbish. This is the same Riordan who for pretty much all of this season has had a large part of the fans calling for him to be played in his "natural position." Where is this "natural position?" Oh yes, it is up front, as one of the front two, and what position are they, yes they are forwards......

Riordan is a forward, not doubts about it. He may not have been playing in a forwards position for the season (although whether he has been playing left midfield in a 442, or left forward in a 433 is very much up for debate, and no-one seems to be able to agree on it) but he is a forward. Like it or not, but midfielders are generally better at tracking and tackling than forwards, and are generally better at knowing how to hold on to a lead than a forward might be, who's natural instinct is to go forward at every opportunity.


THEN, we bring off a forward and bring on ANOTHER forward when we MUST protect a slim 1 goal margin.

WHERE IS THE TACTICS AND THINKING IN THIS????

It wouldn't have been the sub that I would have made, but then I'm not a professional football manager, but I can see some logic in it. Firstly, it wastes time. Secondly, nothing was sticking up front for us, and Stokes isn't renowned for his hold up play, so you bring on a forward with excellent close control and an ability to hold the ball up to try to make it stick up front and give us a chance to get out of our half.



Please someone explain and justify these subs? If someone can do it, I'd love to hear it. Its not logical. It's not sensible. It's not even possible TO explain it because it defies all logic.

Plenty of people have given perfectly logical, sensible explanations for the subs, but you've obviously chosen to ignore them.

Fair enough they didn't work, but it's very easy to look back and judge with hindsight, Hughes unfortunately doesn't have the benefit of this at the time, and has to make a decision based on what he sees. I though the Riordan sub was a decent move at the time. (IMHO he could have picked any of the front 3, and I would have been happy with the sub)

I wonder how much of this "the Riordan substitution was criminal" attitude is coming from people letting their "he's one of us" attitude cloud their judgement? If the same sub had been Stokes, or Nish, I could almost guarantee there wouldn't be such an outcry.


to that our defense was sheite, our keeper was found wanting and we did nothing to change THAT and THAT is where our problems lie.

Funny, under previous managers, when the keeper made a blunder it was Gordon Marshalls fault. Why is it suddenly now the managers fault?

Yes, the defense was rubbish, and it was rubbish all game. Yogi tried to shore it up by putting a more defensively minded player on for a forward minded player, but it didn't work. The only defenders we could have brought on were McCormack and Stevenson. Can you honestly say they would have made a difference to an already shaky defence?


However, Im sure collectively he'll blame the players, the pitch, Riordan, Nish, Stokes etc - the PROBLEM is Yogi's poor substitutions. NOTHING ELSE.

It was NOT broken at 6-2....and if you are going to change it, at least make a change that makes SENSE...bring off a forward for a defender. NOT a left midfielder/playmaker.

Then, if necessary repeat to protect....Benji??? Why?

Fak it. Am gettin pissed off just thinking aboot this again.

ENDOF :brickwall:brickwall:brickwall:brickwall:brickwall

Sorry, but this is pish. The only reason we lost is because Yogi replaced Riordan with a midfielder, and Stokes with Benji? Are you serious? Nothing to do with the players having a bad night defensively? Nothing to do with the goalie having a nightmare? Nothing to do with not one of the players standing up to be counted when under the cosh? Nothing to do with the Motherwell players getting their tails up, and ours letting their heads drop?

[Andy74]

It's frankly scary how obsessive the get yogi to **** mob actually are on here.

Not being able to fathom the slightest bit of Yogi defending has been rife, especially so in the past week but it's been there since March.

Any fan looking in here would see how we've done over the whole season, where we are in the league and that we've still got something to play for in the last game of the season. They'd then probably think we've had a good season on the back of that.

I understand the frustration, hell I'm frustrated too. I can understand and even agree with a fair whack of the criticism being dealt at Yogi and the players. What I'm getting pissed off at is so many people finding it uncomprehnsible that I, and many others, have a different view to them on our current manager.

Should probably take a break from the board before I become a keyboard hardnut and tell somebody to get tae ****. The negativity and more worryingly the mob mentality is painful to read.


It's been amazing how quickly it has descended and how aggressive everyone is getting about it. Total hysteria and I'm finding it a bit difficult to fathom as well.

I mean I've been up to Dingwall, Perth, Hamilton, Fir Park, all these poor and disappointing games and I've always been only too happy to go off a manager when he's not producing but I'm not even close to that with Hughes yet, and I wasn't really bothered about him coming here.

I guess I don't see a lot wrong that can't be fixed by the manager when he is in the door for longer than a season.

Is it Football Manager games that made everyone think that football mangement is easy enough when you do certain things and that everything is down to the manager every time the team takes the pitch??

[Captain Trips]

I'd have taken Stokes off, and put McBride on, put Riordan in Stokes place and put Rankin wide left. But i have no idea if that would have changed the way the game went. Motherwell would still have got corners, had shots and crosses, would Smith have cocked up as badly with a different formation in front of him? I have no idea, but he did, and that had nothing to do with who was on the pitch in front of him.

Correct, subs or no subs the keeper chucked in 2 goals from standard normal situations, I would have probaly done nothing and hoped my players would perform with some levels of competance for the remainder. I think you said it before you simply cannot legislate for these errors.

Im sure we made a substitute in a match then after it Zibbi/Brown made a mistake, I never remember that sub being mentioned just the errors from Zibbi/Brown.

Last night was no different, why there is talk of tactics I dont know as this was sheer clownshoe stuff of which I am afraid we have seen all to often over the past 5 or 6 years.

[cammy1969]

I'd have taken Stokes off, and put McBride on, put Riordan in Stokes place and put Rankin wide left. But i have no idea if that would have changed the way the game went. Motherwell would still have got corners, had shots and crosses, would Smith have cocked up as badly with a different formation in front of him? I have no idea, but he did, and that had nothing to do with who was on the pitch in front of him.
thank you now that was'nt hard was it do you not think the reason you got so much stick on this thread was because all you did was shoot down everyone who posted an opinion now we'll never know if your changes or mine or anybody else's would have worked but what we do know is yogi's did'nt and with 2 subs still left on the bench i felt that he should ave tried something else as i think we all knew what was coming at 4-6 as i say its all about apinions and im not on here to fall out with other supporters

[KWJ]

thank you now that was'nt hard was it do you not think the reason you got so much stick on this thread was because all you did was shoot down everyone who posted an opinion now we'll never know if your changes or mine or anybody else's would have worked but what we do know is yogi's did'nt and with 2 subs still left on the bench i felt that he should ave tried something else as i think we all knew what was coming at 4-6 as i say its all about apinions and im not on here to fall out with other supporters

You're right, we all knew what was coming at 4-6 and any change wouldn't have made a blind sight of difference as everyone in the crowd knew from the fans to the players. On both sides.

I actually knew because a mate text me before I ****in watched it, thought he must have been taking the piss. Eased the pain a fair bit as I'd gathered from his text that Hearts had won too.

P.S. people might ignore your posts as they're a mare to read. Full stops buddy! :)

[euro Hibby]

partly the problem with Yogi is that he flatters to deceive. We got more than we should have early in the season and expected better or the same
for the latter part of the season.

NOw our form is relegation standard. People have stopped listening to the crap being spouted by the manager who really is his own worst enemy because he constantly contradicts himself.

I think most on the board wanted 4 4 2 because its simple for average players to follow. Last night was the nearest we got to 442 for a while.

With all the problems over the past 19 games , some feel the manager could have used the squad better and given some others a run orat least played them in their best position.

Personally, I am not mad at yogi, I just think others Collins, Mixu to name a few got it as bad and if not worse. Right now I don't think he is the man for the job and some here might agree.

[Hibby 2005]

The one thing that might have happened had Riordan stayed on is we may well have scored again! There was acres of space for him to exploit as Motherwell were chasing the game. He was also having one of his better games. Very odd call by Yogi.

[cammy1969]

You're right, we all knew what was coming at 4-6 and any change wouldn't have made a blind sight of difference as everyone in the crowd knew from the fans to the players. On both sides.

I actually knew because a mate text me before I ****in watched it, thought he must have been taking the piss. Eased the pain a fair bit as I'd gathered from his text that Hearts had won too.
the thing is keith my point is that the manager did'nt try and change it when it was all 2 plain to see now is his job not to see and change these things now its not all his blame but he did'nt even try

[we are hibs]

what about MARK BROWN never saw him play for hibs saw glimpsis of him for ICT:dunno:

[KWJ]

but he did, he tried to shore us up defensively by bringing on McBride for Riordan and putting Rankin to the left.

We needed a leader, somebody to stand up and control the game for us. There was none in the starting 11 and the only one on the bench was Yogi.

They had the momentum and it killed us.

[cammy1969]

The one thing that might have happened had Riordan stayed on is we may well have scored again! There was acres of space for him to exploit as Motherwell were chasing the game. He was also having one of his better games. Very odd call by Yogi.
:agree:

[basehibby]

I think Hughes has to take a bit of the blame - for example - why not use the last sub to waste another 30 seconds in injury time - also why not just have them all sitting in front of their own box with the score at 6-5? OK it would have invited 'well onto the attack - but not many would have argued with that as a reasonable tactic to defend a one goal lead for a couple of minutes.

Individual errors contributed massively to not taking the three points and there's nothing the manager can do about that - but he possibly could have done SOMETHING and didn't and therefore has to take his share of the blame IMO.

By the way, despite that I still back him for reasons explained on the poll asking that question.

[Dashing Bob S]

I think Yogi has to take a lot of the blame for this incredible slump (both since Jan and in the microcosm of the season which was the Motherwell game) as we have become easy to beat.

However, we had one of the best defensive records in the UK at the start of the season with largely the same personnel.

THE MAIN REASON FOR THE SLUMP HAS BEEN OUR DEFENCE CAVING IN.

Why?

* Bamba's loss of form after returning from the African nations cup and subsequent suspensions.

* McBride, who covered in front of the defence having injury problems.

* Heavy pitches in second half of season/team fitness being poor. This favours larger, more physical (and fitter - Hibs staff are remiss here) players and we are constantly out muscled in the middle and the back.

* Related to the above - lack of strength and leadership in the squad when the going gets rough. It's hard to think any other SPL side who would relinquished that lead. I've had emails from all over the world asking 'how did they do that? Did have some players sent off? Did they walk off the park en masse?' I still don't really know.

* Players played out of position - D-Spoon did okay as a makeshift before Christmas, but other teams sussed we didn't have an RB and targeted that position ruthlessly.

One of the big criticisms I heard from more astute Falkirk fans about Yogi was that he never had a plan B. This is becoming an evident weakness. In the SPL you can try and play football in the first half of the season, but once the pitches get heavy, the injuries kick in and you get into the third round of games where the opposition know your tricks, you have to be prepared to fight, graft and physically compete, scrap for points to earn the right to play.

But you can't expect the Zemmama's, Millers and Riordans to do that, or even the McBrides, its not the way they are made.

Yogi needs to sign a full-back, a dominant central defender, and most of all, a hard, aggressive, holding midfield player. These type of players are available and will become increasingly so as more clubs cut costs in the UK and over Europe, and we should, particularly after clearing out some dross next season, be in a better position to afford them.

Is Yogi the man to be trusted with another season?

My gut reaction is yes. It's easy to sound off, but I'd give him at least until Christmas. You get nowhere chopping and changing, and he needs time to grow into the job, learn to cut out the uberfan Leith lad showboating and achieve a level of abstraction from it all.

Yes, he's made mistakes, and will do so again, but throughout his career Hughes has thrived on being underestimated and proving people wrong. While it hurts me as a fan that he protects the players with irritating platitudes after every reverse, I can see why he does it. He clearly knows that there are defensive/midfield and mentality problems in the squad. I think he'll sort it out.

[KWJ]

I think Hughes has to take a bit of the blame - for example - why not use the last sub to waste another 30 seconds in injury time - also why not just have them all sitting in front of their own box with the score at 6-5? OK it would have invited 'well onto the attack - but not many would have argued with that as a reasonable tactic to defend a one goal lead for a couple of minutes.

Individual errors contributed massively to not taking the three points and there's nothing the manager can do about that - but he possibly could have done SOMETHING and didn't and therefore has to take his share of the blame IMO.

By the way, despite that I still back him for reasons explained on the poll asking that question.

I agree with the final sub for time suggestion. Didn't want us lining up in front of the box though, was far happier whenever the ball wasn't in our half. The players should have been putting their foot on the ball and trying to get it to the corners.

As for Riordan scoring again, I could just as easily have seen Nish or Stokes scoring again and it had to be one of the three.

[Brizo]

Tactical issues are Yogis responsibility. Individual player errors are that players responsibility. Both share responsibility for fitness and motivation but Yogi takes ultimate responsibility for sending them out fit and positive. The players and Yogi share responsibility for the slump. But Yogi like any manager in any job has overall responsibility for how their team perform.

If Yogi stays and I think ST sales will be the factor in that , his close season transfer activity will show whether he has learnt any lessons from this season. He had 5 seasons at Falkirk and they were generally regarded as playing nice football but being too lightweight. If he adds a tougher physical element to this Hibs team it will be a first in his managerial career and unfortunately im not convinced that its part of his "vision".

[Andy74]

Tactical issues are Yogis responsibility. Individual player errors are that players responsibility. Both share responsibility for fitness and motivation but Yogi takes ultimate responsibility for sending them out fit and positive. The players and Yogi share responsibility for the slump. But Yogi like any manager in any job has overall responsibility for how their team perform.

If Yogi stays and I think ST sales will be the factor in that , his close season transfer activity will show whether he has learnt any lessons from this season. He had 5 seasons at Falkirk and they were generally regarded as playing nice football but being too lightweight. If he adds a tougher physical element to this Hibs team it will be a first in his managerial career and im not convinced its part of his "vision"

Why does he keep saying we are too soft and he wants a more phyiscal presence then? I'm sure he will try and get that different type of player in.

[RickyS]

And if it's not confirmed on Sunday?

The expectation of taking something from DU away can't be good, even tho it's a non game for them. Then if they lose the Cup we're out on our erse.
Hope your Mr Happy is still smiling after putting up with total *****e for months and getting no return.

Never mind you can still call it progress and it makes all so much better.
:faf::faf::faf:

thats my thinking TBH, I cant help but remember the absolute turning over they gave us at ER and they will want to show the manager they are worth a start at Hampden. maybe i'm just panicking, maybe its the Hibs way but I can see us and Well losing.

[Brizo]

Why does he keep saying we are too soft and he wants a more phyiscal presence then? I'm sure he will try and get that different type of player in.

I hope you are right. My concern is based on not what hes saying but his five year track record at Falkirk where iirc they were lacking in physical presence and Falkirk fans criticisms (similar to many Hibbies current criticisms) were never addressed. Time will tell .... if he is allowed that time ?

[BEEJ]

Why does he keep saying we are too soft and he wants a more phyiscal presence then? I'm sure he will try and get that different type of player in.
As you say, Yogi has not just recently discovered this weakness. He was saying this about Hibs virtually from the day he arrived. He could see it from his position as an opposing manager at Falkirk.

So it could be argued that the 2009 summer transfer window was his first opportunity to address this fundamental flaw in the Hibs squad.

[ekhibee]

I agree with the final sub for time suggestion. Didn't want us lining up in front of the box though, was far happier whenever the ball wasn't in our half. The players should have been putting their foot on the ball and trying to get it to the corners.

As for Riordan scoring again, I could just as easily have seen Nish or Stokes scoring again and it had to be one of the three.
Well I'm sorry but I just can't agree with this. Our defence was rubbish BEFORE the game was standing at 6-2, to me anyway, the forward line was giving Motherwell plenty of problems in terms of a 3-pronged attack with Motherwell having serious problems covering all 3 of them. Hughes takes one of them off, brings on a defensive midfielder and pushes Rankin out onto the left wing which does mean a complete restructuring of the side to a defensive unit that invites Motherwell back into the game. I wouldn't normally think that 1 substitution could make a difference like that, but we had momentum, and with that substitution, in my opinion,the momentum was taken away. On saying that, I do think credit where credit's due, Hughes played the right formation at the start of the game and we played some of the best stuff in ages, hopefully he can learn from this even if it's been a long time coming. At this stage of the season even with a Europa Cup spot at stake, Yogi must know we are a pretty soft touch defensvely, which means playing to your strengths. Unless Riordan was injured, and he didn't seem to be, our best chance of winning the game was always going to be how we played up til he took Riordan off, but that's just my opinion.

[basehibby]

Well I'm sorry but I just can't agree with this. Our defence was rubbish BEFORE the game was standing at 6-2, to me anyway, the forward line was giving Motherwell plenty of problems in terms of a 3-pronged attack with Motherwell having serious problems covering all 3 of them. Hughes takes one of them off, brings on a defensive midfielder and pushes Rankin out onto the left wing which does mean a complete restructuring of the side to a defensive unit that invites Motherwell back into the game. I wouldn't normally think that 1 substitution could make a difference like that, but we had momentum, and with that substitution, in my opinion,the momentum was taken away. On saying that, I do think credit where credit's due, Hughes played the right formation at the start of the game and we played some of the best stuff in ages, hopefully he can learn from this even if it's been a long time coming. At this stage of the season even with a Europa Cup spot at stake, Yogi must know we are a pretty soft touch defensvely, which means playing to your strengths. Unless Riordan was injured, and he didn't seem to be, our best chance of winning the game was always going to be how we played up til he took Riordan off, but that's just my opinion.

I don't think Hughes can win in this respect - very recently he was getting absolute pelters on here for NOT making a defensive sub when ahead (vs Celtic???). Now he makes a defensive sub and still gets slaughtered!
Got to admit though - whatever he was trying to do didn't work - even if most of Motherwell's goals were down to disatrous individual errors.

[J-C]

I don't think Hughes can win in this respect - very recently he was getting absolute pelters on here for NOT making a defensive sub when ahead (vs Celtic???). Now he makes a defensive sub and still gets slaughtered!
Got to admit though - whatever he was trying to do didn't work - even if most of Motherwell's goals were down to disatrous individual errors.


Everyone I've spoken to says he should've shored up the midfield by puting 5 in there, he put on McBride, fair do's but surely a defensive midfielder of his quality should've been enough. My main problem was Smith, 3 totally rediculous errors cost us, slow to get down for a hot that hit the post, trying to stop a ball with his foot on the line and unable to take a simple cross on his 6yd line, the man's a joke. Why has he been emptied from every club he's been at, simple he's naff.

[Bad Martini]

:agree:

:thumbsup:



Did he? In the game I was watching, the players threw away a four goal lead through basic mistakes.

There was an element of poor mistakes and this much I am not going to disagree with. My opinion, in the game I was watching, is that we should not have let it get to the point where we were in the position to make stupid defensive mistakes.

We should defend from the front backwards, NOT, the other way around. Attack is generally the best form of defense and I cannot recall too many times where a team sitting in and defending deeply have won. Thus, to maintain pressure on the opponents and keep them at bay, would be a good strategy to undertake at 6-2. I dont disagree some individual howlers were to blame for the actual incidents; my point was around avoiding those incidents altogether.



Riordan not a forward?! What a load of rubbish. This is the same Riordan who for pretty much all of this season has had a large part of the fans calling for him to be played in his "natural position." Where is this "natural position?" Oh yes, it is up front, as one of the front two, and what position are they, yes they are forwards......

Riordan is a forward, not doubts about it. He may not have been playing in a forwards position for the season (although whether he has been playing left midfield in a 442, or left forward in a 433 is very much up for debate, and no-one seems to be able to agree on it) but he is a forward. Like it or not, but midfielders are generally better at tracking and tackling than forwards, and are generally better at knowing how to hold on to a lead than a forward might be, who's natural instinct is to go forward at every opportunity.

Let me agree and disagree. Riordan IS a forward. Riordan was not PLAYED as an out and out forward. He SHOULD have been in my opinion (and had he been, I would be confident he'd bag more goals than Stokes or Nish would in the same position) but that is another story.

The point I was making is that he was NOT Playing as far up the pitch as Stokes and Nish. He WAS ironically doing all the tracking back, spraying passes FORWARD and doing plenty outwith scoring to justify staying on the pitch.

Which is why I said we should have brought off an out and out forward namely Nish or Stokes...



It wouldn't have been the sub that I would have made, but then I'm not a professional football manager, but I can see some logic in it. Firstly, it wastes time. Secondly, nothing was sticking up front for us, and Stokes isn't renowned for his hold up play, so you bring on a forward with excellent close control and an ability to hold the ball up to try to make it stick up front and give us a chance to get out of our half.

:agree: - I dont disagree mate. The point I was making here is, I WOULD have brought on one of the other two in place of Benji who isn't renowned for hard work and defensive prowess.

Furthermore, I'd have wasted time and made THREE Subs (Yogi didn't do this either).



Plenty of people have given perfectly logical, sensible explanations for the subs, but you've obviously chosen to ignore them.

Fair enough they didn't work, but it's very easy to look back and judge with hindsight, Hughes unfortunately doesn't have the benefit of this at the time, and has to make a decision based on what he sees. I though the Riordan sub was a decent move at the time. (IMHO he could have picked any of the front 3, and I would have been happy with the sub)

I wonder how much of this "the Riordan substitution was criminal" attitude is coming from people letting their "he's one of us" attitude cloud their judgement? If the same sub had been Stokes, or Nish, I could almost guarantee there wouldn't be such an outcry.

I dont choose to ignore anything, merely putting forward my own opinion.

My rationaile for us failing to win is NOT that Riordan was subbed; it was due to the sub(s) made, the tactics and the failure to use all 3 subs, plus the individual **** ups you correctly mention...my point is, it SHOULD NOT have gotten to that.

As for Riordan being removed specifically - the reason he shouldn't have been removed I have already covered above...nothing to do with being a Hibby (So is Nish) and nothing to do with being one of us (so is Nish and proved that with his interview)...it was purely tactical.


Funny, under previous managers, when the keeper made a blunder it was Gordon Marshalls fault. Why is it suddenly now the managers fault?

Yes, the defense was rubbish, and it was rubbish all game. Yogi tried to shore it up by putting a more defensively minded player on for a forward minded player, but it didn't work. The only defenders we could have brought on were McCormack and Stevenson. Can you honestly say they would have made a difference to an already shaky defence?

I dont know mate but as you say, I am NOT a professional fitba manager. I am not paid to be smart enough to do that. Yogi is....


Sorry, but this is pish. The only reason we lost is because Yogi replaced Riordan with a midfielder, and Stokes with Benji? Are you serious? Nothing to do with the players having a bad night defensively? Nothing to do with the goalie having a nightmare? Nothing to do with not one of the players standing up to be counted when under the cosh? Nothing to do with the Motherwell players getting their tails up, and ours letting their heads drop?

Perhaps not the only reason. This much I confess to being a tad wrong. My point stnads though; had the right subs been made, right time, right players and all 3 subs and perhaps timed better, we MIGHT Not have gotten into this mess and I do believe screwing with the momentum we had was not the way to go and was not helpful and yes, I do think it was massively contributory to us not winning.


That said, that is all MY opinion.....:agree:

[matty_f]

:thumbsup:




There was an element of poor mistakes and this much I am not going to disagree with. My opinion, in the game I was watching, is that we should not have let it get to the point where we were in the position to make stupid defensive mistakes.

We should defend from the front backwards, NOT, the other way around. Attack is generally the best form of defense and I cannot recall too many times where a team sitting in and defending deeply have won. Thus, to maintain pressure on the opponents and keep them at bay, would be a good strategy to undertake at 6-2. I dont disagree some individual howlers were to blame for the actual incidents; my point was around avoiding those incidents altogether.




Let me agree and disagree. Riordan IS a forward. Riordan was not PLAYED as an out and out forward. He SHOULD have been in my opinion (and had he been, I would be confident he'd bag more goals than Stokes or Nish would in the same position) but that is another story.

The point I was making is that he was NOT Playing as far up the pitch as Stokes and Nish. He WAS ironically doing all the tracking back, spraying passes FORWARD and doing plenty outwith scoring to justify staying on the pitch.

Which is why I said we should have brought off an out and out forward namely Nish or Stokes...




:agree: - I dont disagree mate. The point I was making here is, I WOULD have brought on one of the other two in place of Benji who isn't renowned for hard work and defensive prowess.

Furthermore, I'd have wasted time and made THREE Subs (Yogi didn't do this either).




I dont choose to ignore anything, merely putting forward my own opinion.

My rationaile for us failing to win is NOT that Riordan was subbed; it was due to the sub(s) made, the tactics and the failure to use all 3 subs, plus the individual **** ups you correctly mention...my point is, it SHOULD NOT have gotten to that.

As for Riordan being removed specifically - the reason he shouldn't have been removed I have already covered above...nothing to do with being a Hibby (So is Nish) and nothing to do with being one of us (so is Nish and proved that with his interview)...it was purely tactical.



I dont know mate but as you say, I am NOT a professional fitba manager. I am not paid to be smart enough to do that. Yogi is....



Perhaps not the only reason. This much I confess to being a tad wrong. My point stnads though; had the right subs been made, right time, right players and all 3 subs and perhaps timed better, we MIGHT Not have gotten into this mess and I do believe screwing with the momentum we had was not the way to go and was not helpful and yes, I do think it was massively contributory to us not winning.


That said, that is all MY opinion.....:agree:

I can see where you're coming from there BH, what I would say is that your post takes Motherwell out of the equation altogether.

We never made any changes at 6-2, but 'Well never gave in and they didn't let us attack them for it to be the best form of attack. They got their act together and started putting us under pressure. The game changed, and Yogi reacted to it by bringing on McBride.

I think your point stands up if there's only Hibs that influence how we play. Motherwell's own play dictated that we needed to change at that point, IMHO.

[ekhibee]

I can see where you're coming from there BH, what I would say is that your post takes Motherwell out of the equation altogether.

We never made any changes at 6-2, but 'Well never gave in and they didn't let us attack them for it to be the best form of attack. They got their act together and started putting us under pressure. The game changed, and Yogi reacted to it by bringing on McBride.

I think your point stands up if there's only Hibs that influence how we play. Motherwell's own play dictated that we needed to change at that point, IMHO.
I can see where you're coming from too, but sadly I still disagree with it. Motherwell didn't just start attacking seriously after the score was 6-2, they tried to attack the whole game virtually. But for all their attacking, we were still 4 goals in front, with a formula that had worked, and had us comfortably in front. Of course the defensive errors were catastrophic, but if attack was the best form of defence in this game, and I believe it was considering how weak our defence was without Bamba, to change the system and invite Motherwell back into the game was an error, although credit to Hughes for getting the original formation right.

[Captain Trips]

I can see where you're coming from too, but sadly I still disagree with it. Motherwell didn't just start attacking seriously after the score was 6-2, they tried to attack the whole game virtually. But for all their attacking, we were still 4 goals in front, with a formula that had worked, and had us comfortably in front. Of course the defensive errors were catastrophic, but if attack was the best form of defence in this game, and I believe it was considering how weak our defence was without Bamba, to change the system and invite Motherwell back into the game was an error, although credit to Hughes for getting the original formation right.

Again I think you are looking too deeply into it, Motherwell would still have had some chances no matter what we did, we failled to deal with standard normal chances a freekick and a corner to name 2. The result was pure and simple down to the dreadful errors you spoke of.

[J-C]

I can see where you're coming from too, but sadly I still disagree with it. Motherwell didn't just start attacking seriously after the score was 6-2, they tried to attack the whole game virtually. But for all their attacking, we were still 4 goals in front, with a formula that had worked, and had us comfortably in front. Of course the defensive errors were catastrophic, but if attack was the best form of defence in this game, and I believe it was considering how weak our defence was without Bamba, to change the system and invite Motherwell back into the game was an error, although credit to Hughes for getting the original formation right.

True but the fact was the 3 forwards took their foot off the gas and began to sti back on their laurels thinking the job was done. Defending has to start from the front and up until the 6-2 scoreline it worked but as soon as the forwards stopped working their socks off, then something had to be done. The Mptherwell team started to overrun us in midfield die to this lack of workrate from the 3 strikers, hence a midfielder was brought on to stabalise the midfield, but defending and comedy keeping couldn't save it.

[greenlex]

Shutting diwn the midfield and defending a three gial lead was the correct thing to do fir Hibs on Wednesday. If anyone thinks differently they have not seen Hibs play much this season. Which front/attacking midfielder that was chosen to come off is probably up fir debate.but the substitution and fornation change isn't.
Colin Nish has said himself that the forward players were not doing their job properly and that was a contributing factor in the result or words to that effect.

[blackpoolhibs]

I can see where you're coming from too, but sadly I still disagree with it. Motherwell didn't just start attacking seriously after the score was 6-2, they tried to attack the whole game virtually. But for all their attacking, we were still 4 goals in front, with a formula that had worked, and had us comfortably in front. Of course the defensive errors were catastrophic, but if attack was the best form of defence in this game, and I believe it was considering how weak our defence was without Bamba, to change the system and invite Motherwell back into the game was an error, although credit to Hughes for getting the original formation right.

Can you explain why we lost at parkhead, when we kept the formation the same? We were winning that game, the formula as you say was working. People were screaming for the manager to shore the midfield up, and was slaughtered for not doing so?

[ekhibee]

Can you explain why we lost at parkhead, when we kept the formation the same? We were winning that game, the formula as you say was working. People were screaming for the manager to shore the midfield up, and was slaughtered for not doing so?
I totally agree with you, but I should have emphasized that I was commenting specifically on the Motherwell game. But when you're 4 goals up, with potential threats from either side of the pitch with the forward line, Motherwell would have had to be considerably more vigilant for the counter-attack. I agree with other posters about the need for midfield/forwards to help out what was basically a weakened defence, but to me anyway it seemed that the substitution seemed to affect the performance of both teams, one beneficially, the other not. It is just my opinion though.