If The Future Is Green And White...

[Dashing Bob S]

...can the future please start soon?

We hear about how strong a position we're in with reference to other clubs regarding our stadium, training ground and debt levels. So when do we start massively outperforming them, the DU's Yams, M'wells and A'deens?

I'd say the season after next.

[khib70]

...can the future please start soon?

We hear about how strong a position we're in with reference to other clubs regarding our stadium, training ground and debt levels. So when do we start massively outperforming them, the DU's Yams, M'wells and A'deens?

I'd say the season after next.
Apparently the future's a kind of minty pale green:greengrin

[Andy74]

...can the future please start soon?

We hear about how strong a position we're in with reference to other clubs regarding our stadium, training ground and debt levels. So when do we start massively outperforming them, the DU's Yams, M'wells and A'deens?

I'd say the season after next.

We weren't a kick in the baws off doing it this year.

I don't think we can fix everything for next year unless we are very lucky in the transfer market but maybe as you say the next again.

If we relax and let a manager hang around to do a job instead of letting some of the dross that we've got win again we will be fine!

[--------]

...can the future please start soon?

We hear about how strong a position we're in with reference to other clubs regarding our stadium, training ground and debt levels. So when do we start massively outperforming them, the DU's Yams, M'wells and A'deens?

I'd say the season after next.


It may be that this is a case of "Back To The Future", Bob.

Back to 1972? Back to 1950? Back to 1902? :rolleyes:

[Cropley10]

We weren't a kick in the baws off doing it this year.

I don't think we can fix everything for next year unless we are very lucky in the transfer market but maybe as you say the next again.

If we relax and let a manager hang around to do a job instead of letting some of the dross that we've got win again we will be fine!

We've got a lot less dross than Mixu had this time last year.

What have we fixed this year exactly? You're basically saying we need a couple of seasons of transition (again).

[Andy74]

We've got a lot less dross than Mixu had this time last year.

What have we fixed this year exactly? You're basically saying we need a couple of seasons of transition (again).

We have got less, yes, and that's why we've spent most of the season in 3rd place rather than 6th or worse with Mixu.

Transitions never end I'm afraid, the team will change constantly.

Dundee Utd for all the praise they have had have only had a good finishing league position this year after 3 to 4 years of putting a team together and filling gaps.

If we'd been up and down constantly i'd actually be more concerned. I've seen us make very good progress but obviously the last couple of months have been terrible. I can see why though and what needs sorted and Hughes can as well.

We aren't miles away, getting in a right back, maybe two if McCann isn't going to get fitter. A centre half, maybe two if we really want to drastically improve the cover. At least one physical midfielder with presence and a creative player to replace Zemmama when he is out.

That would prbably see us well on our way, even one or two of those would have seen us able to carry on our form a bit longer this year.

We talk about lack of bottle and commitment but after the first Hamilton defeat I saw a team who really sorted that side of it out and were extremely consistent.

I've hated the last couple of months like everyone else but I don't share the same dramatic response as some which always seem to suggest that there are deep problems to address. we're nearly there but quite obviously at the start of a management spell it will take some time to make all the changes you want.

[down the slope]

We have got less, yes, and that's why we've spent most of the season in 3rd place rather than 6th or worse with Mixu.

Transitions never end I'm afraid, the team will change constantly.

Dundee Utd for all the praise they have had have only had a good finishing league position this year after 3 to 4 years of putting a team together and filling gaps.

If we'd been up and down constantly i'd actually be more concerned. I've seen us make very good progress but obviously the last couple of months have been terrible. I can see why though and what needs sorted and Hughes can as well.

We aren't miles away, getting in a right back, maybe two if McCann isn't going to get fitter. A centre half, maybe two if we really want to drastically improve the cover. At least one physical midfielder with presence and a creative player to replace Zemmama when he is out.

That would prbably see us well on our way, even one or two of those would have seen us able to carry on our form a bit longer this year.

We talk about lack of bottle and commitment but after the first Hamilton defeat I saw a team who really sorted that side of it out and were extremely consistent.

I've hated the last couple of months like everyone else but I don't share the same dramatic response as some which always seem to suggest that there are deep problems to address. we're nearly there but quite obviously at the start of a management spell it will take some time to make all the changes you want.

A couple of months, which couple are we talking about ?. do you mean the couple of five !!!, tell you what , i will wait till the corner is turned than go back like a few thousand others who have seen enough.

[Andy74]

A couple of months, which couple are we talking about ?. do you mean the couple of five !!!, tell you what , i will wait till the corner is turned than go back like a few thousand others who have seen enough.

Since mid February really. That's not five months nearer two and a half. And I actually think the last few weeks we've played better and have been a bit unlucky.

That makes it about six good months and almost three not so good.

With a game tomorrow night where we could take 4th place.

You can wait all you like, you certainly won't be helping the corner get turned. Supporters like you deserve the negative results you get if you won't support them through tough periods.

[BEEJ]

Transitions never end I'm afraid, the team will change constantly.
As do the personnel in other SPL clubs. But the one constant is that there always seems to be a ready excuse as to why Hibs routinely underachieve.


I've seen us make very good progress but obviously the last couple of months have been terrible. I can see why though and what needs sorted and Hughes can as well.

I've hated the last couple of months like everyone else but I don't share the same dramatic response as some which always seem to suggest that there are deep problems to address. we're nearly there but quite obviously at the start of a management spell it will take some time to make all the changes you want.
I guess it all boils down to whether or not you feel the current management team have got what it takes. You either have confidence in the Hughes / Rice partnership, or you don't.

[Andy74]

As do the personnel in other SPL clubs. But the one constant is that there always seems to be a ready excuse as to why Hibs routinely underachieve.


I guess it all boils down to whether or not you feel the current management team have got what it takes. You either have confidence in the Hughes / Rice partnership, or you don't.

Are we under achieving this year? Certainly the last few months we are but on the whole? We are pretty much where we can expect to be are we not? I think we can expect to be more in the hunt for 3rd place but that happening this year from where we were would have been a real over achievement.

What team is it after Celtic and Rangers that have routinely delivered?

Dundee Utd? 5th being their best finish recently until now? Up an down since the 80s and routinely flirted with relegation.

Aberdeen? current predicatment says it all again.

Motherwell? Up and own but do well with their resources now and again.

Hearts? £10m wage bill and £35 debt to scrape the top 6. Achieved to their budget last year and were bottom 6 the year before that.


I'd be interested to hear how we are the only ones who are underachieving and using excuses year after year.

[BEEJ]

Are we under achieving this year?
Yes, indeed we are. Factor in the cup exits and you betcha!

You might think we were really close to achieving something this season but I fail to see it.


What team is it after Celtic and Rangers that have routinely delivered?

Dundee Utd? 5th being their best finish recently until now? Up an down since the 80s and routinely flirted with relegation.

Aberdeen? current predicatment says it all again.

Motherwell? Up and own but do well with their resources now and again.

Hearts? £10m wage bill and £35 debt to scrape the top 6. Achieved to their budget last year and were bottom 6 the year before that.

I'd be interested to hear how we are the only ones who are underachieving and using excuses year after year.
Well thanks for those examples. But to answer your questions highlighted in bold, here in reverse order, are our final league placings since the SPL was first formed:

08/09 6th
07/08 6th
06/07 6th
05/06 4th
04/05 3rd
03/04 8th
02/03 7th
01/02 10th
00/01 3rd
99/00 6th
98/99 Not in SPL

Now, if you do the maths on the 10 seasons above in which we have competed in the SPL (so not including this year), you get an average of 5.9 - in other words an average of a 6th place finish over that decade.

So by definition, if you were to do the same calculation for the other non-OF SPL sides, then there must be three teams with better averages over the same period that fill places 3, 4 and 5.

You might regard an average of 6th place as satisfactory and as somehow being our 'destiny'. I call it under-achievement.

And that's before you even factor in our 'adventure' in Division 1.

[Cropley10]

Are we under achieving this year? Certainly the last few months we are but on the whole? We are pretty much where we can expect to be are we not? I think we can expect to be more in the hunt for 3rd place but that happening this year from where we were would have been a real over achievement.

What team is it after Celtic and Rangers that have routinely delivered?

Dundee Utd? 5th being their best finish recently until now? Up an down since the 80s and routinely flirted with relegation.

Aberdeen? current predicatment says it all again.

Motherwell? Up and own but do well with their resources now and again.

Hearts? £10m wage bill and £35 debt to scrape the top 6. Achieved to their budget last year and were bottom 6 the year before that.


I'd be interested to hear how we are the only ones who are underachieving and using excuses year after year.

Motherwell finished 3rd the season before last, Hertz last season.

Things weren't working out with Gannon or Shabby. They fixed that and have improved.

I'm sorry but I just don't buy this we've played well, we're only a couple of players away from a team stuff. On the first point I'd say we've played well twice at home this season. We've not beaten a side in the top 6 under their current management either.

As for personnel we seem to have a very l o n g list of positions that need addressed; FB, CH, CM, LM, CF. Let's be honest we might just get one or two but I can't see the Board throwing a whole load of money atthe manager for him to spend on new staff. If we were where United are now it might be a different story.

[IWasThere2016]

That makes it about six good months and almost three not so good.
You can wait all you like, you certainly won't be helping the corner get turned. Supporters like you deserve the negative results you get if you won't support them through tough periods.

:faf: "not so good" You should've been in Politics Andy.


As do the personnel in other SPL clubs. But the one constant is that there always seems to be a ready excuse as to why Hibs routinely underachieve.

I guess it all boils down to whether or not you feel the current management team have got what it takes. You either have confidence in the Hughes / Rice partnership, or you don't.

We are underachieving .. no doubt. And confidence in the management - puuuurlease! 5-1 StJ, 4-1 Hamilton, 2-1 Ross Co, and don't even mention the inability to beat the worst Yams side in a long long time! :boo hoo:

[HFC 0-7]

Yes, indeed we are. Factor in the cup exits and you betcha!

You might think we were really close to achieving something this season but I fail to see it.


Well thanks for those examples. But to answer your questions highlighted in bold, here in reverse order, are our final league placings since the SPL was first formed:

08/09 6th
07/08 6th
06/07 6th
05/06 4th
04/05 3rd
03/04 8th
02/03 7th
01/02 10th
00/01 3rd
99/00 6th
98/99 Not in SPL

Now, if you do the maths on the 10 seasons above in which we have competed in the SPL (so not including this year), you get an average of 5.9 - in other words an average of a 6th place finish over that decade.

So by definition, if you were to do the same calculation for the other non-OF SPL sides, then there must be three teams with better averages over the same period that fill places 3, 4 and 5.

You might regard an average of 6th place as satisfactory and as somehow being our 'destiny'. I call it under-achievement.

And that's before you even factor in our 'adventure' in Division 1.

Doesnt work like that. I had a quick look at working out in the same way you have looking at league positions over the seasons the team has been in the SPL you get the following: -

Rangers1.55
Celtic1.55
Hearts4.36
Hibs5.90
Aberdeen6.27
Kilmarnock6.55
Dundee Utd7.27
Dundee7.43
Motherwell7.45
StJohnstone7.50
Falkirk8.50
Livingston8.60
Dunfermline8.75
ICT8.80
Hamilton9.00
St Mirren11.00
Partick11.00
Gretna12.00


FWIW, this is a bad way to work out average league position as all it would take is one bad season to muck up the figures, for example, if you were to finish 1st 9 season out the 10 and 12th the other season it would show your average as 2.1 even although you have never finished 2nd.

One thing that jumped out at me when looking at the league placings over the years is Kilmarnock. They have finished 4th 3 times and 5th 3 times, pretty impressive for such a small club.

Dundee utd on the other hand have finished outside the top 6 on 7 occasions 5th 3 times and once in 3rd.

[BEEJ]

Doesnt work like that. I had a quick look at working out in the same way you have looking at league positions over the seasons the team has been in the SPL you get the following: -

Rangers1.55
Celtic1.55
Hearts4.36
Hibs5.90
Aberdeen6.27
Kilmarnock6.55
Dundee Utd7.27
Dundee7.43
Motherwell7.45
StJohnstone7.50
Falkirk8.50
Livingston8.60
Dunfermline8.75
ICT8.80
Hamilton9.00
St Mirren11.00
Partick11.00
Gretna12.00


FWIW, this is a bad way to work out average league position as all it would take is one bad season to muck up the figures, for example, if you were to finish 1st 9 season out the 10 and 12th the other season it would show your average as 2.1 even although you have never finished 2nd.

Re the bit in bold, that is what averages are all about. So there is no other way to do it.

My averages were over the ten most recently completed seasons, you've used eleven. In the eleventh season Hibs didn't feature.

What does skew the numbers is the promotion and relegation factor. If it was always the same 12 sides competing then the averages would work out in the way that I initially thought.

Sadly there is one shower of trash that have massively over-achieved in the last decade.

[HFC 0-7]

Re the bit in bold, that is what averages are all about. So there is no other way to do it.

My averages were over the ten most recently completed seasons, you've used eleven. In the eleventh season Hibs didn't feature.

What does skew the numbers is the promotion and relegation factor. If it was always the same 12 sides competing then the averages would work out in the way that I initially thought.

Sadly there is one shower of trash that have massively over-achieved in the last decade.

I worked them out on how many seasons they were in the SPL, so its different for a lot of clubs, Gretna for example were only worked out on there lone season so it was position divided by amount of seasons in SPL When looking at averages of this nature, to get a more accurate picture you should take out the MAX and the MIN, that way you take out the one off seasons that skew the figures.

I was really getting at the fact that it wouldnt come out the way you envisaged as hibs are showing as being the 4th best in terms of league positions even although there average is actually 5.9.