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hibeemikey21
03-05-2010, 10:18 PM
After reading the thread about the Hearts accounts, it really hit me how exciting a future Hibs can have. After all, we have got:

A (relatively) new, and soon to be completed stadium.
A new and state of the art training complex.
And we have achieved this without accumulating any debt.

There really is nothing else that our income can be spent on other than on the pitch. For example, if we were to sell another Fletcher for £4 million, we might now see half of that going straight towards transfer funds. Given the financial situation at every other club in the SPL, and the fact that even the OF are "selling clubs" these days, if we play our cards right, we could really emerge as a dominant force in Scottish football.

How far do you honestly all think we can go in the next decade though?

noseyhibby
03-05-2010, 10:35 PM
Hibernian FC has failed to win silverware for 97% of its history. Once in a blue moon the league cup/skol cup/7up whatever you want to call it comes our way.
So, I am going for nowt.

HibeeMG
03-05-2010, 10:37 PM
I really do see your point. However, and I don't know if this is because of the current situation on the pitch, I don't see the day where Hibs will ever be competing with the OF for players and therefore we will always be behind them.

MountcastleHibs
03-05-2010, 10:39 PM
After reading the thread about the Hearts accounts, it really hit me how exciting a future Hibs can have. After all, we have got:

A (relatively) new, and soon to be completed stadium.
A new and state of the art training complex.
And we have achieved this without accumulating any debt.

There really is nothing else that our income can be spent on other than on the pitch. For example, if we were to sell another Fletcher for £4 million, we might now see half of that going straight towards transfer funds. Given the financial situation at every other club in the SPL, and the fact that even the OF are "selling clubs" these days, if we play our cards right, we could really emerge as a dominant force in Scottish football.

How far do you honestly all think we can go in the next decade though?

I agree with you. I think we do have a very bright future. However, I honestly think we will never break our hoodoo and win the Scottish.

With that said, I can't see us winning the league. Celtic and Rangers have too much influence, power and money for anyone else to win it. We can run them close, but not win it.

Most realistic chance is the League Cup.

monktonharp
03-05-2010, 11:34 PM
Hibernian FC has failed to win silverware for 97% of its history. Once in a blue moon the league cup/skol cup/7up whatever you want to call it comes our way.
So, I am going for nowt.I'm not really clever on statistics,and dont want to be but 97% seems a lot. However,I tend to think,that if a seagull is gonna sheite,it will land on Hibs,therefor we will win f///////ck all for years to come.or am I just being depressing,like you?

deek68
03-05-2010, 11:38 PM
After reading the thread about the Hearts accounts, it really hit me how exciting a future Hibs can have. After all, we have got:

A (relatively) new, and soon to be completed stadium.
A new and state of the art training complex.
And we have achieved this without accumulating any debt.

There really is nothing else that our income can be spent on other than on the pitch. For example, if we were to sell another Fletcher for £4 million, we might now see half of that going straight towards transfer funds. Given the financial situation at every other club in the SPL, and the fact that even the OF are "selling clubs" these days, if we play our cards right, we could really emerge as a dominant force in Scottish football.

How far do you honestly all think we can go in the next decade though?

The real change we’re going to see is the dominance of the OF. I know, they’ve always been dominant but if you consider 2nd place in the SPL to be a “prize” then the big two have taken 36 out of 40 triumphs in the last ten years.

Only Livingston (League Cup 2004), Hearts (2nd place/Scottish cup 2006) and Hibs (League Cup 2007) have stopped them claiming everything. Given their precarious position and lack of financial clout now I can see the door opening up for other clubs to take a share of the spoils.

We can achieve some or all of the above in the next ten years. (Nowt being one of them).

seanraff07
03-05-2010, 11:42 PM
We get on a Scottish Cup run most years, and i just have that slight feeling that some time soon, were going to win it, were more than capable of doing it and theirs no superior team in our way, we just need to give 5 good performances and we would do it.

deek68
03-05-2010, 11:47 PM
We get on a Scottish Cup run most years, and i just have that slight feeling that some time soon, were going to win it, were more than capable of doing it and theirs no superior team in our way, we just need to give 5 good performances and we would do it.

Even mediocre teams win the cup. St Mirren 1987 (no disrespect) Motherwell 1991 (no disrespect) Kilmarnock 1997 (no disrespect) Hearts 1998 (disrespect). It will come. Possibly when we least expect it. 2011 suits me.

seanraff07
03-05-2010, 11:52 PM
I think we'll do it in 2012, and it will be Yogi that leads us to it after he buys some new players in the summer and moulds that team together over the next two seasons.

snooky
03-05-2010, 11:52 PM
This has been the best season to achieve anything in years with the OF financially weak & similarly their player pools. The rest of the teams in the SPL have been rather bland or minging. Unfortunately we're at that level too.
If only we had a settled squad, playing sensible tactics and had not sold off all the family jewels, all the domestic trophies could have been well within our grasp.

:hmmm: Maybe we should change our motto to "If Only..."

Still there's always next season to look forward to. O-O-OTBAH :clapper: :wink:

DH1875
04-05-2010, 12:14 AM
You can but dream.

I reckon if we went about it the right way there is every chance we could win the league. You only have to look at the dutch league. Who would have thought FC Twente would beat the likes of Ajax, PSV, AZ Alkmaar and Feyenoord.
Scottish football is on it's knees. Rangers and Celtic are spent forces, with their depts both clubs will continue to struggle to attract really top notch players. Add to that hopefully there will be some nice flats to buy in gorgie and the Yams will be a distant memory.
We have no one to fear.


Still I am a realist and know that we will probably win ****** all.

monktonharp
04-05-2010, 12:35 AM
This has been the best season to achieve anything in years with the OF financially weak & similarly their player pools. The rest of the teams in the SPL have been rather bland or minging. Unfortunately we're at that level too.
If only we had a settled squad, playing sensible tactics and had not sold off all the family jewels, all the domestic trophies could have been well within our grasp.

:hmmm: Maybe we should change our motto to "If Only..."

Still there's always next season to look forward to. O-O-OTBAH :clapper: :wink: I think you mean.............this was the best season to win something,certainly the SC. as has been proved,no OF team in this year's final,just a diddy team fae tayside,and the mighty Staggies to decide who's getting it this year.:yawn:

greenlex
04-05-2010, 06:45 AM
The Old Firm will still dominate Scottidh Football but I reckon it will be to a lesser extent as the quality they could buy/ pay is lost to other leagues in Europe as the money tightens. We in our league are best placed totake advantage so I have voted accordingly. Whether we will or not depends on a huge change in attitude in the playing staff and a massive culture change in the club. Hughes is trying to do that but it remains to be seen if he is capable or not. His talk is right but the walk us a bit wonky at the moment.

Holmesdale Hibs
04-05-2010, 10:00 AM
After reading the thread about the Hearts accounts, it really hit me how exciting a future Hibs can have. After all, we have got:

A (relatively) new, and soon to be completed stadium.
A new and state of the art training complex.
And we have achieved this without accumulating any debt.

There really is nothing else that our income can be spent on other than on the pitch. For example, if we were to sell another Fletcher for £4 million, we might now see half of that going straight towards transfer funds. Given the financial situation at every other club in the SPL, and the fact that even the OF are "selling clubs" these days, if we play our cards right, we could really emerge as a dominant force in Scottish football.

How far do you honestly all think we can go in the next decade though?

I agree the future looks brighter for us and we're defintiely in a better financial state than for most, if not all, SPL clubs.

Winning a cup is a possibility but I can't see us being close to winning the league in the next 10 years given the revenue gap with the unwashed.

How the team progresses from here is also dependant on the attendences. Remember someone at the club saying 11000 (or something similar) was the magic number that was needed to break even. We must make sure that we achieve this as a minimum so we're not selling players to cover our losses.

Leith Green
04-05-2010, 10:02 AM
Where was the Irn Bru 1st division choice?? :greengrin

Andy74
04-05-2010, 10:16 AM
We were actually pretty close to achieving something this year, and that is with a team that the majority seem to accept is still miles away from where we want to be.

With a couple of different types of players and real cover for our best players the type of slide we have been on does not need to happen.

The comforting thing is that I can see us addressing those things and I'd be very surprised if the likes of Motherwell, Dundee Utd and Hearts can improve significantly from where they are.

We'd be going mental if our wage bill was £10m, over twice ours, and a team the calibre of Hearts is what we got as a result! I wonder how their squad will be on half that figure when they get there?

For most of the season we were the best of the rest and although what has happened since has been bitterly disappointing I think we will emerge from this to take that place over the coming years.

hibees_green
04-05-2010, 11:22 AM
.......There really is nothing else that our income can be spent on other than on the pitch. For example, if we were to sell another Fletcher for £4 million, we might now see half of that going straight towards transfer funds. ......?

:hilarious

Firstly we might have all these things but we don't own them all and they still have significant running costs. We'll still have to pay a significant amount out on our 'superb' facilities over the next decade.

In my opinion this will ensure we will not see much change in our playing success over the next decade.

In my opinion this is where we've went wrong. Too much focus on expensive infrastructure, not enough focus on footballing success.

Andy74
04-05-2010, 11:31 AM
:hilarious

Firstly we might have all these things but we don't own them all and they still have significant running costs. We'll still have to pay a significant amount out on our 'superb' facilities over the next decade.

In my opinion this will ensure we will not see much change in our playing success over the next decade.

In my opinion this is where we've went wrong. Too much focus on expensive infrastructure, not enough focus on footballing success.

What don't we own?

And what was built which didn't have football success as its ultimate aim?

Brizo
04-05-2010, 11:45 AM
:hilarious

Firstly we might have all these things but we don't own them all and they still have significant running costs. We'll still have to pay a significant amount out on our 'superb' facilities over the next decade.

In my opinion this will ensure we will not see much change in our playing success over the next decade.

In my opinion this is where we've went wrong. Too much focus on expensive infrastructure, not enough focus on footballing success.

:agree: The Famous Five stand function suites which were kitted out to a very high spec , crystal chandelier included , and which we were told would generate an income stream from corporate events and a restaurant which would be open 7 days a week. The corporate income stream never materialised and the restaurant opening was scaled back to matchdays only after a very short period of time. Its main function is now as the humble BTG matchday boozer, when it was intended for much greater things. Either someones pre project market research was totally [email protected] or it was a STF ego project (and btw im a STF fan)

As for East Mains , a 5 million pound state of the art training facility which by Yogis own admission the first team squad are only using for a couple of hours each day. We have players in key areas patently lacking pace and stamina. We have fantastic facilities for them to improve their fitness but for whatever reason those facilities are are not being utilised to their full potential. At least with East Mains we can hope that future managers make better use of it.

BEEJ
04-05-2010, 11:55 AM
We were actually pretty close to achieving something this year, and that is with a team that the majority seem to accept is still miles away from where we want to be.
Did we lose in a cup final? Or have we just missed out by a gnat's whisker on a 3rd place finish in the SPL?

I must have missed that?! :greengrin

Sir David Gray
04-05-2010, 12:39 PM
I'm not really clever on statistics,and dont want to be but 97% seems a lot. However,I tend to think,that if a seagull is gonna sheite,it will land on Hibs,therefor we will win f///////ck all for years to come.or am I just being depressing,like you?

In the 135 years that we have been in existence, we have had 9 years where we have won a major honour.

That means we have won nothing in 94% of our seasons.

GloryGlory
04-05-2010, 12:43 PM
After reading the thread about the Hearts accounts, it really hit me how exciting a future Hibs can have. After all, we have got:

A (relatively) new, and soon to be completed stadium.
A new and state of the art training complex.
And we have achieved this without accumulating any debt.



And some of the unfittest players in the league.... :wink: IMO, we are not getting much of a return yet from that investment!

Keith_M
04-05-2010, 12:44 PM
I voted League Cup, not because I'm absolutely convinced we will but because it's the most likely.

JimBHibees
04-05-2010, 12:49 PM
Even mediocre teams win the cup. St Mirren 1987 (no disrespect) Motherwell 1991 (no disrespect) Kilmarnock 1997 (no disrespect) Hearts 1998 (disrespect). It will come. Possibly when we least expect it. 2011 suits me.

:faf::faf:

hibees_green
04-05-2010, 12:49 PM
What don't we own?

And what was built which didn't have football success as its ultimate aim?

I assume we've got loan's/mortgages for some of the stands (at least the East) and training center which will need to be paid back.

Did we honestly need to spend £5M on the training centre? Could we have done it fro £2M? Could the £5M been a bit of an ego trip for some?

Even if the aim of building all this was footballing success, it's failed and doesn't show any likelyhood of being successful other than through hope and patience (which is the excuse rolled out every year).

A club should focus on spending the minimum possible on infrastructure and the maximum on attracting the best players and manager possible.

marinello59
04-05-2010, 12:52 PM
I assume we've got loan's/mortgages for some of the stands (at least the East) and training center which will need to be paid back.

Did we honestly need to spend £5M on the training centre? Could we have done it fro £2M? Could the £5M been a bit of an ego trip for some?
Even if the aim of building all this was footballing success, it's failed and doesn't show any likelyhood of being successful other than through hope and patience (which is the excuse rolled out every year).

A club should focus on spending the minimum possible on infrastructure and the maximum on attracting the best players and manager possible.

Ego trip? I would love you to expand on that one further.

Perhaps you would prefer to go back to the days of the players being driven round in a mini bus looking for a spare public park to train on?

hibees_green
04-05-2010, 12:58 PM
Ego trip? I would love you to expand on that one further.

Perhaps you would prefer to go back to the days of the players being driven round in a mini bus looking for a spare public park to train on?

If you read the post you would see that I specifically critised the cost of the training centre, not the fact that we needed one.

RyeSloan
04-05-2010, 12:59 PM
I assume we've got loan's/mortgages for some of the stands (at least the East) and training center which will need to be paid back.

Did we honestly need to spend £5M on the training centre? Could we have done it fro £2M? Could the £5M been a bit of an ego trip for some?

Even if the aim of building all this was footballing success, it's failed and doesn't show any likelyhood of being successful other than through hope and patience (which is the excuse rolled out every year).

A club should focus on spending the minimum possible on infrastructure and the maximum on attracting the best players and manager possible.

Brilliant oxymoron there....just how could a club that has spent as little as possible on infrastucture attract the best players and managers???

All of the infrastructure spending has been with the view to putting Hibs on a solid footing for the next 20/30 years...quite how you can say it's failed already when we have yet to finish the last leg of that investment is beyond me.

Despite our on field problems we have quite clearly invested heavily in the future of the club and that this investment has put Hibs in a unique position in Scottish football outside the OF....I'm amazed that anyone can complain about the route we have taken and think they must be pretty blinkered to see how this will not benefit us massively going forward.

basehibby
04-05-2010, 01:04 PM
I voted Scottish Cup - if the OF have to strip back their finances then the gap should be closable - just not closable enough to overtake both of them, but surely enough to compete consistently in the later stages of the cups (and hopefully win the one that matters most to us).

I think though that we ARE on the verge of cashing in for all the frugality shown over the last decade. Of our closest competitors, Aberdeen are already feeling the pinch big style and I get the feeling that it's only a matter of time before the likes of the Yams and the Arabs start to feel it on the pitch in much the same way.

As long as we have the right kind of manager building a team out of what SHOULD in future be a markedly better budget than our closest rivals, we SHOULD then be able to reap the benefits in the shape of more success on the pitch. Is Hughes the right kind??? Lets leave that debate to the numerous other threads on the subject.

I am of course assuming that the Yams cannot go on leaking money hand over fist forever more and will one day have to settle for a realistic wage budget or face the alternative of disappearing off the face of the earth or at least going into administration and suffering the requisite punishment (relegation to div 3???).

Spike Mandela
04-05-2010, 01:04 PM
For me a measure of success in the next 10 years would be qualifying for Europe more often than not.

Consistent top 5 finishes should be a measure of the prudent finances over the past 10 years and we have a head start on other teams.

As for cups they are a lottery and you never know but latter stage involvement should be acheivable most years but as we've seen the pressure of the Scottish Cup seems to weigh heavy on every Hibs team no matter how good.

marinello59
04-05-2010, 01:07 PM
If you read the post you would see that I specifically critised the cost of the training centre, not the fact that we needed one.

You put your carefully costed difference of 3million (how did you arrive at that figure by the way?) down to an 'ego trip.'

Care to expand?

Caversham Green
04-05-2010, 01:07 PM
I assume we've got loan's/mortgages for some of the stands (at least the East) and training center which will need to be paid back.

Did we honestly need to spend £5M on the training centre? Could we have done it fro £2M? Could the £5M been a bit of an ego trip for some?

Even if the aim of building all this was footballing success, it's failed and doesn't show any likelyhood of being successful other than through hope and patience (which is the excuse rolled out every year).

A club should focus on spending the minimum possible on infrastructure and the maximum on attracting the best players and manager possible.

We have a mortgage outstanding for the West Stand only, and the implication is that the East is paid for. In any case, a mortgage doesn't mean that we don't own it. The training centre is paid for and the West mortgage is covered by reserves.

The yams paid £2.5m plus an annual rental for an inferior facility that they don't own (so can't sell if times get tough) so there's probably not a great deal of scope for a cheaper training centre that is still fit for purpose. Danny Galbraith decided to join Hibs after comparing the facilities with Riccarton and both Stokes and Miller have commented that the training centre was a factor in their decisions, so it would appear to be attracting a better quality of player, even if the benefits do not appear to be showing up on the field at this precise moment.

hibees_green
04-05-2010, 01:20 PM
Brilliant oxymoron there....just how could a club that has spent as little as possible on infrastucture attract the best players and managers???.............they must be pretty blinkered to see how this will not benefit us massively going forward.

Money talks. Players are far more interested in their pay check than how good the stadium is, providing you cover the basics of course.

I did wonder how long it would be before someone turned to their fortune telling skills of 'honest we'll benefit in the future' rather than look at the current facts.

basehibby
04-05-2010, 01:20 PM
I assume we've got loan's/mortgages for some of the stands (at least the East) and training center which will need to be paid back.

Did we honestly need to spend £5M on the training centre? Could we have done it fro £2M? Could the £5M been a bit of an ego trip for some?

Even if the aim of building all this was footballing success, it's failed and doesn't show any likelyhood of being successful other than through hope and patience (which is the excuse rolled out every year).

A club should focus on spending the minimum possible on infrastructure and the maximum on attracting the best players and manager possible.

IIRC the training centre has ALL been paid for with "ring-fenced" funding - the stadium upgrade has resulted in long term mortgages at manageable repayment rates. Whether the training centre could or should have been built for less money is debatable but don't just ignore the benefits FFS - ie the status of having one of the best training facilities in the UK and the influence that has on both youth and senior players thinking of signing for the club.

By the way - to say that the training centre has FAILED in contributing to football success is such a load of claptrap it's unbelievable - are you REALLY thinking about what you're posting as I think you'd make more sense if you just closed your eyes and randomly bashed the keyboard with your knob!

The thing was only completed about a year ago FFS! It's a long term investment which you can expect to pay dividends on the pitch over the next 20 years plus - and I'd expect most of that dividend to be in the shape of players promoted from a successful youth accademy. Even over the last season we have seen both Hanlon and Wotherspoon establish themselves as first team regulars - if that's your definition of failure then I'll find it hard to see anything you post as anything other than short-sighted reactionary ranting with all the substance of a Tynecastle Planning Application. :bye:

hibees_green
04-05-2010, 01:37 PM
You put your carefully costed difference of 3million (how did you arrive at that figure by the way?) down to an 'ego trip.'

Care to expand?

Do you read the posts? I asked a question. Could we have done it for £2M?

It wasn't a carefully costed difference.

I then implied that if we could have, maybe the exra 3 million was an ego trip for those that approved it.

marinello59
04-05-2010, 01:40 PM
Do you read the posts? I asked a question. Could we have done it for £2M?

It wasn't a carefully costed difference.

I then implied that if we could have, maybe the exra 3 million was an ego trip for those that approved it.

It's a ridiculous assertion that somebody at Hibs would deliberately overspend by three million quid to satisfy their ego.

Caversham Green
04-05-2010, 01:45 PM
Do you read the posts? I asked a question. Could we have done it for £2M?

It wasn't a carefully costed difference.

I then implied that if we could have, maybe the exra 3 million was an ego trip for those that approved it.

Probably, but if we had a very promising youngster would definitely not have signed for us and two highly-regarded players including this season's top scorer might not have. More will follow in the coming years - do you really not see that as a benefit?

hibees_green
04-05-2010, 02:01 PM
Probably, but if we had a very promising youngster would definitely not have signed for us and two highly-regarded players including this season's top scorer might not have. More will follow in the coming years - do you really not see that as a benefit?

I'm not questioning the fact that the training centre is a benefit. I do see a training centre as a benefit but honestly think it didn't have to be as expensive.

As long as training facilities are reasonable players wages will still be the single biggest factor in attracting quality.

The less we had spent the more will be available.

marinello59
04-05-2010, 02:03 PM
I'm not questioning the fact that the training centre is a benefit. I do see a training centre as a benefit but honestly think it didn't have to be as expensive.
As long as training facilities are reasonable players wages will still be the single biggest factor in attracting quality.

The less we had spent the more will be available.

Why though? How and where would you have saved money?

hibees_green
04-05-2010, 02:10 PM
IIRC the training centre................. reactionary ranting with all the substance of a Tynecastle Planning Application

Well I'm glad that's sorted. You get your kicks out of having of having one of the best training facilities in the UK. I get mine from bashing my keyboard with my knob.

I'm not saying that the training facility has specifically failed. I'm saying that despite all our recent invetsment we are no more than average as a club. I don't see that changing.

p.s. We had one of the most successful crops of youngsters in the SPL's history a few years ago without the training centre. Despite that we'll no doubt hear that every decent future player will be purely down to the training centre.

Caversham Green
04-05-2010, 02:20 PM
I'm not questioning the fact that the training centre is a benefit. I do see a training centre as a benefit but honestly think it didn't have to be as expensive.

As long as training facilities are reasonable players wages will still be the single biggest factor in attracting quality.

The less we had spent the more will be available.

But you were questioning the fact that the training centre is a benefit - you said it had failed. I've given three examples where the facilities were a factor in quality players signing for Hibs - all three might have looked elsewhere if the facilities had been run of the mill. We can now offer at least as good wages as other non-OF clubs with the added bonus of the best training facilities in the country - that has to give us an edge in negotiations.

Cropley10
04-05-2010, 02:25 PM
Interesting PoV from the OP. Not one I really share.

I'd find it far more exciting if we were winning derbies away from home in the last 2 minutes personally.

Andy74
04-05-2010, 02:33 PM
Interesting PoV from the OP. Not one I really share.

I'd find it far more exciting if we were winning derbies away from home in the last 2 minutes personally.

I think the things being discussed could make it more likely that we can be winning more often than not against them for some years to come and that is more interesting to me that them being able to do it to us now and again now.

hibeemikey21
04-05-2010, 02:43 PM
I think the things being discussed could make it more likely that we can be winning more often than not against them for some years to come and that is more interesting to me that them being able to do it to us now and again now.

:agree:

Hearts peaked when they finished second and won the S.C. They are now starting do decline/treading water at best, and hemorrhaging cash at the same time (as can be seen by their £8 million losses, even after selling the likes of Berra). As I suggested, we are on the up, even though its hard to see it that way given our relegation form of late! In the long term however, I well and truly forsee the tables turning in our favour!

hibees_green
04-05-2010, 02:47 PM
Why though? How and where would you have saved money?

I'm going on the basis that most people have described it as 'state of the art' and in general 'state of that art' costs more than functionally adequate'.

If it couldn't be done for any less than £5M then so be it. It would simply surprise me if that's the case.

Andy74
04-05-2010, 02:54 PM
I'm going on the basis that most people have described it as 'state of the art' and in general 'state of that art' costs more than functionally adequate'.

If it couldn't be done for any less than £5M then so be it. It would simply surprise me if that's the case.

We had the money to do it and so we made it as good as it could possibly be for our needs, that is a sensible long term view.

We want the club to achieve its potential and be a major player and a professional set up. We are gradually doing everything we can to get there.

On the park you can say the same though that takes more time and nothing is guaranteed.

When we started own the road of not playing the likes of Fenwick and o'Neill because they were costing us too much I didn't think we'd be back signing players of the calibre of Riordan, Stokes and Miller. It's clearly our intention to keep signing players of that quality.

If you had kept that £3m back what would you have done with it that would have made a difference in a sustainable way?

hibees_green
04-05-2010, 02:58 PM
But you were questioning the fact that the training centre is a benefit - you said it had failed. I've given three examples where the facilities were a factor in quality players signing for Hibs - all three might have looked elsewhere if the facilities had been run of the mill. We can now offer at least as good wages as other non-OF clubs with the added bonus of the best training facilities in the country - that has to give us an edge in negotiations.

If that's how you read the post fair enough.

I don't mean the training center has failed.

I do mean that all the infrastructure (stadium and training centre) we have invested in hasn't produced any more success than we have had in the past.

I do question the amount spent on the training centre and whether we could have done it cheaper.

Cropley10
04-05-2010, 03:00 PM
I think the things being discussed could make it more likely that we can be winning more often than not against them for some years to come and that is more interesting to me that them being able to do it to us now and again now.

They've been doing this now and again as you put since God was a boy.

Meanwhile we cling to the hope that things are going to get better. When in fact - on a like for like basis - they're not. 3 points more than last season is a huge under-achievement.

Every other team in the SPL will be delighted if Hughes stays at Hibs.

Meanwhile players are going to think longr than twice about joining. Why would Arfield want to come here for example?

BEEJ
04-05-2010, 03:00 PM
We have a mortgage outstanding for the West Stand only, and the implication is that the East is paid for.
As a bit of an aside, can someone explain how this works?

By defiinition this ring-fenced funding for the East Stand does not appear in the club's accounts for 2008/09. So have we been promised the funds from an anonymous benefactor; or is the funding still running around in a Hibs strip until sold this summer?

:dunno:

hibees_green
04-05-2010, 03:01 PM
....If you had kept that £3m back what would you have done with it that would have made a difference in a sustainable way?

Kept Fletcher, played him left of midfield, finished 3rd and won the SC. This would have increased the gate for next season and sent us on our way to year after year of European success:wink:

Caversham Green
04-05-2010, 03:19 PM
As a bit of an aside, can someone explain how this works?

By defiinition this ring-fenced funding for the East Stand does not appear in the club's accounts for 2008/09. So have we been promised the funds from an anonymous benefactor; or is the funding still running around in a Hibs strip until sold this summer?

:dunno:

It wasn't obvious how it could be done from the 2009 accounts. We had enough cash/debtors to cover the cost, but that included ST money and had to cover some running costs for this year. The club also cancelled the overdraft facility as well IIRC. The funding may be running around in a Burnley or Celtc strip ( there may be add-ons for appearances or becoming captain) but I suspect a player sale is done and dusted.

Brizo
04-05-2010, 03:20 PM
If that's how you read the post fair enough.

I don't mean the training center has failed.

I do mean that all the infrastructure (stadium and training centre) we have invested in hasn't produced any more success than we have had in the past.

I do question the amount spent on the training centre and whether we could have done it cheaper.

:agree: A training centre is only as good as the manager and players commitment to using it. By Yogis own admission its been used at best two hours per morning by the players and he couldnt understand why they werent using it more. Which coming from the manager I found :confused:

As soon as anyone criticises the East Main spend someone always pops up to ask if we should be training on public parks. Of course a purpose built training centre was needed but like you im not convinced we needed something that JC admitted was on a par with EPL facilities , particularly given the differences in finances and player standards between SPL and EPL. Champagne facilities for pomagne players springs to mind.

Under this particular manager were certainly not getting our moneys worth out of the 5 million outlay. Not in terms of amount of time its used by the squad , improved fitness levels or improved performances. Hopefully a future manager will utilise the facilities better.

Caversham Green
04-05-2010, 03:26 PM
If that's how you read the post fair enough.

I don't mean the training center has failed.

I do mean that all the infrastructure (stadium and training centre) we have invested in hasn't produced any more success than we have had in the past.

I do question the amount spent on the training centre and whether we could have done it cheaper.

That's because football is not an exact science - I'm saying that the training centre has attracted at least three quality players and is likely to bring in more, while you're saying in another post (tongue in cheek, I suspect) that keeping Fletcher (even though he didn't want to stay) would have been enough to win us the cup and third in the league. It's all about opinions I suppose.

Andy74
04-05-2010, 03:32 PM
It wasn't obvious how it could be done from the 2009 accounts. We had enough cash/debtors to cover the cost, but that included ST money and had to cover some running costs for this year. The club also cancelled the overdraft facility as well IIRC. The funding may be running around in a Burnley or Celtc strip ( there may be add-ons for appearances or becoming captain) but I suspect a player sale is done and dusted.

Though aren't the accounts a snapshot and although we had other things to pay during the reaminder of the year we also had more gate money to come in, other mechandising and corprorate sales and it may also be practice to front end our outgoings so really, a lot of that cash could well have been available.

Speedway
04-05-2010, 04:31 PM
By the way - to say that the training centre has FAILED in contributing to football success is such a load of claptrap it's unbelievable - are you REALLY thinking about what you're posting as I think you'd make more sense if you just closed your eyes and randomly bashed the keyboard with your knob!



I disagree. It doesn't work for most .netters who employ that tactic daily.


I think the things being discussed could make it more likely that we can be winning more often than not against them for some years to come and that is more interesting to me that them being able to do it to us now and again now.

The problem for me Andy, is that it's always long term, it's always just around the bend and the carrot is always just out of reach. These transitional and debt removal seasons and years just mean there's less time for me to get any enjoyment out of following the club.

The thought that my son may get to see us win derbies more frequently in the future is of precisely zero comfort.

The stats say we've won nowt for 94% of our seasons and I confidently predict that this stat is one that we'll finally find consistency in achieving in the future.

basehibby
04-05-2010, 05:59 PM
IMO East Mains should be looked at as an investment in the future and the cost of it should therefore be spread out over at least 20 years. If that's the case then it would only have to be the deciding factor in attracting one or two players of the calibre of Scot Brown/Steven Whittaker over the next 20 years to pay for itself.

Going by the comments of Galbraith on signing for Hibs - which indicated that East Mains was a deciding factor for him - I'd predict that the chances are pretty strong that East Mains WILL pay for itself - and in a lot shorter time than 20 years.

I'm as desparate as any Hibby to see us succeed on the pitch and I'm convinced that the investments in infrastructure made over the last ten years or so WILL help us get there.

The stands only need to get paid for once but will provide an increased capacity and therefore greater revenue for many decades to come.

East Mains will provide the manager and players with a head start on their rivals for many years to come and will hopefully in some cases tip the balance in terms of attracting quality players to the club.

And with all this stuff paid for and the club on an even keel financially the stage will be set to take full advantage of it with a sustainably better budget for the manager to work with.

Then, as always, it will be down to the manager to make a good fist of things - but at least he'll be starting with the best possible cards in his pack.