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Hibbyradge
02-05-2010, 08:15 AM
I don't know what's gone so badly wrong at Easter Road since the turn of the year, but if we don't see significant signs of progress by the end of October, I think it will time for Rod to let Yogi go.

I genuinely do believe that every manager should be given a decent amount of time to build his own team and I'm sure many will argue that October doesn't offer that, but if we continue to perform as we have in 2010, we'll be relegation candidates and that's a step too far in the wrong direction.

If we get a few good and appropriate signings in over the summer, I think that with the completed stadium and the wider pitch, we could be in for some exciting times next season.

However, if we have a poor start to the campaign, we'll be on a downward spiral that only a change in manager will be able address.

I do like Yogi's passion for the Hibs job, I agree with his general views on the game and I do hope he's a great success, but he needs to start getting it right very soon.

marleyhib
02-05-2010, 08:28 AM
Since the turn of the year our record is abysmal:

P19 W5 D3 L11 - 18 points

Losing 6 on the bounce is unacceptable.

However I think we have to give Yogi a decent chance to turn it around, continually changing manager will get us nowhere - sacking him now is a bad idea and 3 months of next season probably isn't long enough unless we are rock bottom.

If he gets it badly wrong after next season then its probably time for a change. Football is a results business and results have been bad, however what is worrying is the lack of anything promising recently.

I also think if Yogi doesn't work out we need to look at who is appointing the managers as they too must take some of the blame.

Pedantic_Hibee
02-05-2010, 08:36 AM
Yogi could really do himself a favour by coming out and telling it like it is instead of, as admirable as it is, almost defending his players on a weekly basis.

If he came out and told us exactly what we can see, imo he'd buy himself a helluva lot of time.

His bizarre post-match interviews are only adding fuel to the fiery suggestion that he's effin' clueless.

Expecting Rain
02-05-2010, 08:40 AM
Yogi could really do himself a favour by coming out and telling it like it is instead of, as admirable as it is, almost defending his players on a weekly basis.

If he came out and told us exactly what we can see, imo he'd buy himself a helluva lot of time.

His bizarre post-match interviews are only adding fuel to the fiery suggestion that he's effin' clueless.

Unfortunately, coming out and telling it llike it is results in alienating the players who have too much power these days and making it harder to sell damaged goods.

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 09:07 AM
Unfortunately, coming out and telling it llike it is results in alienating the players who have too much power these days and making it harder to sell damaged goods.

:agree: As much as we dont like it, managers will always protect his players, he does not want to have a go in public, what good would that do?

Yesterday's loss was nothing to do with the managers tactics, or formation. It was clearly down to individual errors. We dont have enough good players, whatever formation we put out. And yesterday showed us, we are every bit as good as the yams, even with a side thats short of its better players, and short of confidence.

I agree with Dave, he needs time to get rid of those who are not up to the job, and he needs to get better players in.

hibs0666
02-05-2010, 09:14 AM
:agree: As much as we dont like it, managers will always protect his players, he does not want to have a go in public, what good would that do?

Yesterday's loss was nothing to do with the managers tactics, or formation. It was clearly down to individual errors. We dont have enough good players, whatever formation we put out. And yesterday showed us, we are every bit as good as the yams, even with a side thats short of its better players, and short of confidence.

I agree with Dave, he needs time to get rid of those who are not up to the job, and he needs to get better players in.

He's already had the chance to bring better players in and there has not been one ounce of improvement since last season. Hughes will, rightly, carry the can.

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 09:24 AM
He's already had the chance to bring better players in and there has not been one ounce of improvement since last season. Hughes will, rightly, carry the can.

I disagree. The players he brought in coupled with what was left, was a team that were challenging for 2nd place in the middle of February. Since then, McBride has been mostly injured. Zemamma the same. Bamba and Miller, our 2 biggest players in terms of quality and form til then, have lost form and or been suspended. Hogg has reverted back to his usual form, along with Nish.

I saw enough in the early season to keep with him, in fact give him another 3 years guaranteed, to see the job through.

BEEJ
02-05-2010, 09:30 AM
Yogi could really do himself a favour by coming out and telling it like it is instead of, as admirable as it is, almost defending his players on a weekly basis.

If he came out and told us exactly what we can see, imo he'd buy himself a helluva lot of time.

His bizarre post-match interviews are only adding fuel to the fiery suggestion that he's effin' clueless.
:agree: He's indulging in meaningless psycho-babble on a regular basis (eg 'fear of winning')


I agree with Dave, he needs time to get rid of those who are not up to the job, and he needs to get better players in.
In both Yogi's post-match interview yesterday and the interview with him in yesterday's Scotsman he mentioned just 'one or two new faces' coming in over the summer. He also made much of continuing to work with the players he's got.

Not a picture of the wholesale changes in the squad that many seem to believe is required.

hibs0666
02-05-2010, 09:30 AM
I disagree. The players he brought in coupled with what was left, was a team that were challenging for 2nd place in the middle of February. Since then, McBride has been mostly injured. Zemamma the same. Bamba and Miller, our 2 biggest players in terms of quality and form til then, have lost form and or been suspended. Hogg has reverted back to his usual form, along with Nish.

I saw enough in the early season to keep with him, in fact give him another 3 years guaranteed, to see the job through.

The situation in February doesn't matter a jot - prizes are given out in May. We are now in the frankly ridiculous position of being on a par with one of the worst Hearts teams of recent decades - that for me is a sure sign that we are going backwards not forwards.

If our form continues as it is into next season then we will be in a relegation dogfight by November. That is too big a risk for Hibs to take and that means that Hughes needs to be replaced asap.

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 09:32 AM
:agree: He's indulging in meaningless psycho-babble on a regular basis (eg 'fear of winning')


In both Yogi's post-match interview yesterday and the interview with him in yesterday's Scotsman he mentioned just 'one or two new faces' coming in over the summer. He also made much of continuing to work with the players he's got.

Not a picture of the wholesale changes in the squad that many seem to believe is required.

You do realise managers tell lies?

Steve20
02-05-2010, 09:34 AM
Never mind 3 months, time for him to go now.

truehibernian
02-05-2010, 09:45 AM
:agree: As much as we dont like it, managers will always protect his players, he does not want to have a go in public, what good would that do?

Yesterday's loss was nothing to do with the managers tactics, or formation. It was clearly down to individual errors. We dont have enough good players, whatever formation we put out. And yesterday showed us, we are every bit as good as the yams, even with a side thats short of its better players, and short of confidence.

I agree with Dave, he needs time to get rid of those who are not up to the job, and he needs to get better players in.

I genuinely think John Hughes has a week to save his job. The board have a new stand, new shirt deal, new bums to try and convince to put on seats. People often come out with this football cliche that "managers need more time". It is one of the few sporting industries where the concept of time is neglected in favour of immediate success in response to prolonged failure. Yes it will cost money to remove the management team, but I think given Sol Bamba, Zemmama, Stokes and possibly Riordan are now (in my opinion) well on the shopping/transfer list, I don't think the Board have any fears that they will be able to comfortably bear this financial burden. A massive player clear out is also not really on the cards, not only because there are severance pays to deal with, but some of the players are either not being played, some are decent squad players, and who is to say that with 3 or 4 good additions, cannot be part of a side who play a different style of football. Hibernian does however need a manager who needs to get tough behind the scenes IMO, eradicate a certain culture that has developed, and start to be 100% focused on the game, the result, and not his good relationship with the players, fans and media. He demands his team to rid itself of the "soft" tag, however he IMHO is the main contributor this season for it. If this was La Liga or Le Championnat, playing nice little passing football with time to control, look up and move, would be ideal. But sadly, it's the SPL, and our league means you have to have a blend of grit, fight, desire, no nonsense as well as technical ability, style and football. He manages in this ideal world that everyone plays the same way. That is why fundamentally we have been beaten by teams that bully, chase, harrass, and play with width, pace and braun. Look at hearts first goal yesterday and Rangers last week. Hogg bullied by both Obua and Lafferty, Hanlon turned and bullied by bloody Elliot. The Celtic goals as well........easy balls into the box, not defended, no one willing to literally throw themselves into the mixer. They are all prepared though to stand and watch each other until it is too late. If I were a manager of a fellow SPL team, beating Hibs would be an absolute cake walk. You play with width, and with some pace up top. Most goals scored against us come from crosses into the box or set pieces, not through the middle. Play four in midfield, with at least two with height. You could even get away with playing a 3-5-2 given we don't play with any width or pace whatsoever, so full backs needn't be required. Hibs are one dimensional, play through the middle, and are easy to read. Hughes - has to go IMHO because pundits, fans, ex players and ex managers all say what I see and we all see on here. His persistence at playing players off form, out of position and who are clearly not good enough means he has a stubborness which exceeds Mixu's to be honest. Having five goalkeepers who to be brutally honest, you could pick holes in all of them (perhaps very unkind to Flynn), is frankly ridiculous. Having no natural right back for a whole season is again, in professional management, neglect. Playing certain players totally out of position (Wotherspoon and Riordan) encourages mistakes and lack of confidence, not the other way about. Choosing a captain who should never be in the side let alone given the armband, was his first wrong decision and that was before a ball was kicked. Having only one player (Wotherspoon) from the youth ranks given a chance to shine is again, given the form, unacceptable. If they are good enough for a pro contract and to be on the bench, play them ! I know this will read as a rant, but I have tried to be as constructive as I can - but Hughes for me has proved that he has indeed lost the focus and as such will lose his job. Sad, but true.

BroxburnHibee
02-05-2010, 09:48 AM
:agree: As much as we dont like it, managers will always protect his players, he does not want to have a go in public, what good would that do?

Yesterday's loss was nothing to do with the managers tactics, or formation. It was clearly down to individual errors. We dont have enough good players, whatever formation we put out. And yesterday showed us, we are every bit as good as the yams, even with a side thats short of its better players, and short of confidence.

I agree with Dave, he needs time to get rid of those who are not up to the job, and he needs to get better players in.

Sorry but................bollocks.

I didn't post much last night as I wanted to try and calm down but its no worked I'm still ******* ragin.

Time and again on here I keep reading that he needs "time to sort it out" - "give him a chance to bring in his own players" - "he knows what needs done".

Its utter bollocks - I have seen nothing from Yogi since Christmas that says to me he has the ability to spot our weaknesses and deal with them.

IMO we were good enough to get to 3rd with this squad and indeed obviously we were good enough to achieve it going by his comments at the turn of the year - yet now when things have turned sour "he needs time to get his own players in"

Every man and his dog could see Nish & Miller were struggling but he did nothing :confused:

Hogg decides he can continue but he clearly struggles - be a manager for ***** sake :grr:

We completely outplayed them for the first 25 minutes of that second half (so much so that we had totally shut their fans up) yet we couldn't score.

Yes we gifted goals but when they equalised - did it occur to JH that he could change things and give THEM something to think about - did he ****.

He was hoping to see it out for the point so did nothing, and thats what we ended up with.

I've been following Hibs long enough to be completely un-surprised at yesterday events however I've also been going long enough to recognise when a manager has clearly not got a ****** clue.

3 months D - I wouldn't give him 3 days.

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 10:02 AM
Sorry but................bollocks.

I didn't post much last night as I wanted to try and calm down but its no worked I'm still ******* ragin.
we are all hurting, not just you?
Time and again on here I keep reading that he needs "time to sort it out" - "give him a chance to bring in his own players" - "he knows what needs done".

Its utter bollocks - I have seen nothing from Yogi since Christmas that says to me he has the ability to spot our weaknesses and deal with them.
More re writing history. Since xmas to the 14th of February, when our bad run started. We won 5, drew 2 and lost 1
IMO we were good enough to get to 3rd with this squad and indeed obviously we were good enough to achieve it going by his comments at the turn of the year - yet now when things have turned sour "he needs time to get his own players in"
We were good enough to get 3rd with the 1st eleven players, the squad is crap, NOT GOOD ENOUGH
Every man and his dog could see Nish & Miller were struggling but he did nothing :confused:
We were controlling the game, imho changes were not needed, he's been slaughtered for changing games recently, when we have been winning, then lost, he cant win with some people.
Hogg decides he can continue but he clearly struggles - be a manager for ***** sake :grr:
Hogg came back on, he told the manager he was fine, Hogg had nothing to do with the keeper ****ing up the goals, we'd have won if the keeper had 2 hands.
We completely outplayed them for the first 25 minutes of that second half (so much so that we had totally shut their fans up) yet we couldn't score.
WTF? What devine right do we have to score? We did in the end, yet a keeper making 2 errors, basic errors cost us the points, not hogg or yogi or miller
Yes we gifted goals but when they equalised - did it occur to JH that he could change things and give THEM something to think about - did he ****.
We wre controlling the game, they had a lot to think about, they were getting beat, then enter Smith.
He was hoping to see it out for the point so did nothing, and thats what we ended up with.
Again, enter Smith,
I've been following Hibs long enough to be completely un-surprised at yesterday events however I've also been going long enough to recognise when a manager has clearly not got a ****** clue.
Your opinion, not mine, and i have been following them as long as you
3 months D - I wouldn't give him 3 days.

I'd give him 3 maybe 4 more years, he's the man.:notworthy:

greenlex
02-05-2010, 10:19 AM
2 more games to sort it out. PerformNces have been better top six but unless he converts it into points questions need to be asked.

Alfred E Newman
02-05-2010, 10:26 AM
:agree:
Yesterday's loss was nothing to do with the managers tactics, or formation. It was clearly down to individual errors. We dont have enough good players, whatever formation we put out. And yesterday showed us, we are every bit as good as the yams, even with a side thats short of its better players, and short of confidence.

I agree with Dave, he needs time to get rid of those who are not up to the job, and he needs to get better players in.

Jeffries gave his players a deserved roasting last week and got a reaction yesterday.

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 10:29 AM
Jeffries gave his players a deserved roasting last week and got a reaction yesterday.

No he never, his team were getting pumped until Smith decided to take control. Whatever Jeffries said to his players, was making no difference whatsoever.

greenlex
02-05-2010, 10:32 AM
No he never, his team were getting pumped until Smith decided to take control. Whatever Jeffries said to his players, was making no difference whatsoever.

It's not what he said that made the difference it's what he done.
It's what Yogi doesn't do that worries me.

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 10:34 AM
It's not what he said that made the difference it's what he done.
It's what Yogi doesn't do that worries me.

What did he do, bribe our keeper?

BroxburnHibee
02-05-2010, 10:38 AM
Gary to lay the blame for that defeat at Smith's door is IMO ridiculous.

He played a part no doubt about it but to keep blaming our goalkeeping deficiencies is head in the sand stuff worthy of the Hearts fans at their worst.

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 10:43 AM
Gary to lay the blame for that defeat at Smith's door is IMO ridiculous.

He played a part no doubt about it but to keep blaming our goalkeeping deficiencies is head in the sand stuff worthy of the Hearts fans at their worst.

Again i disagree. We were well in control yesterday, my mate sat next to me said, i cant see hearts scoring today, i agreed. The run we have been on has been poor, nobody can deny this, but the last 3 games we have lost, have all been games we should have taken something from.

And like you, i'm fuming we have lost all 3, but yesterday, 2 individual errors lost us that game imho, not formation, not team selection, and not any substitutions yogi might or might not have made. 2 basic errors, a keeper should not be making.

Cabbage1875
02-05-2010, 10:51 AM
Blackpool Hibs you're getting boring now.

Vini1875
02-05-2010, 10:51 AM
I would guess that the board will be waiting until these two games have gone to see where we are. If we somehow manage to get into Europe I think they will stick with Yogi, but should we fail and God forbid end up in 6th then I think Yogi's postion will untenable and the board will replace him.

The unfortunate thing in all this for me is that Yogi is clearly able to spot and get decent players to ER, but I'm afraid to say he has been unable to get them to produce their good form over a purlonged period.

Watching Mixu's Hibs was bad but this is worse because you can see that most of the players out there have the talent, Yogi just can't get them to use it.

greenlex
02-05-2010, 10:56 AM
What did he do, bribe our keeper?

Switched the laddie playing wide right onto the left as Murray gad eventually got to grips with him and brought on the waiter. Our narrow midfield was then stretched on both flanks instead of one. Couple that with our tiring midfield and well you know the rest.
What dud Yogi do? He brings on a player who is either not match fit or more interested in what stupid hat he is gonna wear that night( maybe both) to pressure them at the back a bit.

truehibernian
02-05-2010, 11:00 AM
Switched the laddie playing wide right onto the left as Murray gad eventually got to grips with him and brought on the waiter. Our narrow midfield was then stretched on both flanks instead of one. Couple that with our tiring midfield and well you know the rest.
What dud Yogi do? He brings on a player who is either not match fit or more interested in what stupid hat he is gonna wear that night( maybe both) to pressure them at the back a bit.

I thought Alan Gow was one of their subs. He was certainly good at passing to his fellow Hearts players and breaking up play and tidying up at the back when we attacked :faf:

Alfred E Newman
02-05-2010, 11:14 AM
No he never, his team were getting pumped until Smith decided to take control. Whatever Jeffries said to his players, was making no difference whatsoever.

The Hearts players showed more will to win. I cannot remember the Hearts keeper having a save to make in the second half so saying we were pumping them is just nonsense.

Dashing Bob S
02-05-2010, 11:32 AM
I was still in Yogi camp till yesterday. I think he's teetering on the verge of losing the dressing room in a way that Mixu never did. His constant berating of players and getting onto shouting matches on the touchline with them is embarrassing and self-defeating. Ironically, I think it's because he wants the best for the club and has great passion for it.

However, I think if he's to continue, he needs to take not just a long good look at the team in the close-season, but also himself, and put this Leith uberfan, one-of-the-boys, playing-to-the-gallery stuff to bed, and simply see it as another job.

It's strange to berate someone for too much passion, but when you compare his behaviour trackside here and Falkirk, its clear this job is infantilising him, and it's effecting his standing with the players. Yes, some of those spineless wage thieves do need a boot up the rspca but there are ways and means of doing it without undermining them, or ultimately, your own authority with the players and the fans.

I still feel he needs more time, but even saying that is now really starting to stick in my throat. The only real difference between Yogi and Mixu is that Mixu could win a derby.

NORTHERNHIBBY
02-05-2010, 11:52 AM
I would like to see a bit more fear about the place both from the players and the manager. Not being feared to win, but more aware of what continually losing will mean. I want to see Hughes tell his players that if we don't pick up points from the last games and finish fourth, he can't be sure that we will kick off next season with him in charge. If they don't respond, then that is as clear a message as you can get. Yogi's body language minds me of a bloke at my work who has been tipped the wink that his job is secure as we go into a period of " down-sizing". We are zipping around like blue ersed flies to make an impression, and he is plodding half-ersed cos he knows he is ok.

Cropley10
02-05-2010, 12:16 PM
:agree: As much as we dont like it, managers will always protect his players, he does not want to have a go in public, what good would that do?

Yesterday's loss was nothing to do with the managers tactics, or formation. It was clearly down to individual errors. We dont have enough good players, whatever formation we put out. And yesterday showed us, we are every bit as good as the yams, even with a side thats short of its better players, and short of confidence.

I agree with Dave, he needs time to get rid of those who are not up to the job, and he needs to get better players in.

That is the biggest load of slaver I have read on here in a while :faf:

Yesterday's defeat was entirely down to the manager. Mixu usedto blame individual errors and we all laughed at him.

Not only did Hughes NOT have a plan B - he failed to respond to FJK's substitutions and left Hogg on when very clearly he was struggling. Hertz sensed this and kept attacking. Rather than see the game out we sat deep and played hoofball. And lost. Again.

MacDonald didn't have a save tomake 2nd half FFS.

What's perhaps even more worrying though is his insistence on having a running argument with some of his players throughtout the game.

I honestly don't know what the Happy Clappers think is going to happen if we sign 2 or 3 players and empty half a dozen more. He's not suddenly going to become a great tactician or super motivator. That's obvious by now.

Beefster
02-05-2010, 12:21 PM
I'd give him 3 maybe 4 more years, he's the man.:notworthy:

You wanted Mixu binned after 6 months but want a manager whose total record is pretty much equal and has taken us on the worst league run in 33 years to be given another 4 years?

Seems reasonable.

marinello59
02-05-2010, 12:40 PM
Again i disagree. We were well in control yesterday, my mate sat next to me said, i cant see hearts scoring today, i agreed. The run we have been on has been poor, nobody can deny this, but the last 3 games we have lost, have all been games we should have taken something from.And like you, i'm fuming we have lost all 3, but yesterday, 2 individual errors lost us that game imho, not formation, not team selection, and not any substitutions yogi might or might not have made. 2 basic errors, a keeper should not be making.

And didn't.
My view remains that the squad isn't as good as some seem to think it is and that is the root of all our problems but Yogi has to take a large share of the blame. Good on you for defending him. Blind devotion is just ridiculous though.

cabbage07
02-05-2010, 01:50 PM
[QUOTE=Cabbage1875;2447795]Blackpool Hibs you're getting boring

All hes trying to do is convince himself .
Comes out with some *****.

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 02:31 PM
And didn't.
My view remains that the squad isn't as good as some seem to think it is and that is the root of all our problems but Yogi has to take a large share of the blame. Good on you for defending him. Blind devotion is just ridiculous though.

I have never said the manager has always got things right. I do see him make what i'd say were mistakes. Although it is easy to say this when i will never be culpable for any of the decisions he has to make. What i will say again, is yesterdays result had nowt to do with any decision Yogi made, other than picking the keeper.

We were comfortable, very comfortable, then the keeper decided to hand them the game. How is that the managers fault? Anyone who knows me, will know i have blind devotion to nobody, especially a manager.

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 02:32 PM
You wanted Mixu binned after 6 months but want a manager whose total record is pretty much equal and has taken us on the worst league run in 33 years to be given another 4 years?

Seems reasonable.

When did Mixu with his best 11 available have us challenging in the middle of February?

hibs0666
02-05-2010, 02:36 PM
When did Mixu with his best 11 available have us challenging in the middle of February?

Totally irrelevant.

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 02:37 PM
Totally irrelevant.

Not when you compared them.

NORTHERNHIBBY
02-05-2010, 02:41 PM
When did Mixu with his best 11 available have us challenging in the middle of February?

Isn't the point that the challenge effectively stalled in December and that we have done zip since then?

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 02:44 PM
Isn't the point that the challenge effectively stalled in December and that we have done zip since then?

Have a look at your post, then come back with the truth when you have checked the facts.

NORTHERNHIBBY
02-05-2010, 02:47 PM
Have a look at your post, then come back with the truth when you have checked the facts.


:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

hibs0666
02-05-2010, 02:47 PM
Not when you compared them.

It's now May and we are also-rans. February is now a total irrelevance except for highlighting just how utterly pish we have become.

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 02:49 PM
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Are you that stupid?

marinello59
02-05-2010, 02:51 PM
I have never said the manager has always got things right. I do see him make what i'd say were mistakes. Although it is easy to say this when i will never be culpable for any of the decisions he has to make. What i will say again, is yesterdays result had nowt to do with any decision Yogi made, other than picking the keeper.

We were comfortable, very comfortable, then the keeper decided to hand them the game. How is that the managers fault? Anyone who knows me, will know i have blind devotion to nobody, especially a manager.

It was more than the keeper to blame for the first goal. Hanlon and Murray were both cuplable.
After we scored we looked like a team without any clue of what to do next. Why would that be? Lack of preparation perhaps?

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 02:52 PM
It's now May and we are also-rans. February is now a total irrelevance except for highlighting just how utterly pish we have become.

No complaints there, we have had a terrible slump since the middle of february. Is there any chance it might be because our team has changed quite a lot since then?

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 02:54 PM
It was more than the keeper to blame for the first goal. Hanlon and Murray were both cuplable.
After we scored we looked like a team without any clue of what to do next. Why would that be? Lack of preparation perhaps?

I dont know, do you? Do the management team not prepare the team properly? If not, i'd love to hear more on this.

marinello59
02-05-2010, 02:59 PM
I dont know, do you? Do the management team not prepare the team properly? If not, i'd love to hear more on this.

I really have no idea. I can only go by what I see on the pitch. Do you know if the preparation is sufficient to put out a team that can give us a win?

I want Yogi to turn this round and take us forward and I still think he can but to suggest that he bears no blame at all for yesterday just doesn't wash with me.

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 03:01 PM
I really have no idea. I can only go by what I see on the pitch. Do you know if the preparation is sufficient to put out a team that give us a win?

I want Yogi to turn this round and take us forward and I still think he can but to suggest that he bears no blame at all for yesterday just doesn't wash with me.

As i have said a million times, Yogi does not get everything right, but what could he have done yesterday, that would have stopped those two goals?:confused:

Brizo
02-05-2010, 03:06 PM
I would guess that the board will be waiting until these two games have gone to see where we are. If we somehow manage to get into Europe I think they will stick with Yogi, but should we fail and God forbid end up in 6th then I think Yogi's postion will untenable and the board will replace him.

The unfortunate thing in all this for me is that Yogi is clearly able to spot and get decent players to ER, but I'm afraid to say he has been unable to get them to produce their good form over a purlonged period.

Watching Mixu's Hibs was bad but this is worse because you can see that most of the players out there have the talent, Yogi just can't get them to use it.

:agree: In the poorest SPL for years our squad had enough quality to hold onto 3rd spot as I dont believe that man for man Arabs or Well have better players. Whats undone it is other teams sussing us out and Yogis inability to suss out that theyve sussed us out and change the "tactics".

Tactics that seem to have come come from the 11 halftime 21 the winner school of tactics , chasing games we are winning and the failure to make defensive substitutions to protect a lead , his embarassing maybury league style touchline man management and the criminal underuse of multi million pound training facilities to improve fitness in a squad badly lacking stamina and pace in key areas. Those are areas that can only be changed by Yogi reassessing how he manages the club. And im guessing he might well be too arrogant or stubborn to do that.

Until now I was willing to give Yogi next season to put things right but tbh ive lost any faith that he has the ability to do that

Barney McGrew
02-05-2010, 03:07 PM
I'd give him 3 maybe 4 more years, he's the man.

I'm getting more and more convinced you're at the wind up.

As someone who was probably the most voiceferous critic of Mixu on this board, you've turned full circle and are now backing a manager who's tactics, formations and lack of ability to have a Plan B are at times equally as bizarre as his predecessor's. What's the difference between Mixu and Yogi in your eyes?

It looks like we're going to end up only three points better off than we were last season, with a far better squad of players at the managers disposal.

That's not progress.

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 03:16 PM
I'm getting more and more convinced you're at the wind up.

As someone who was probably the most voiceferous critic of Mixu on this board, you've turned full circle and are now backing a manager who's tactics, formations and lack of ability to have a Plan B are at times equally as bizarre as his predecessor's. What's the difference between Mixu and Yogi in your eyes?

It looks like we're going to end up only three points better off than we were last season, with a far better squad of players at the managers disposal.

That's not progress.

It pisses me off when folk keep telling me we have a much better squad than under Mixu. We have a better keeper in Stack, we lost our best midfielder
because he had to replace our captain Jones, who left. We replaced Fletcher with Stokes, a better goalscorer, but not as good a player imho.

Miller has come in and replaced Bamba, McBride and Zemamma have come in, and when fit we were doing well, but they have been injured for long periods, Stack too, and our replacements have been cregg, rankin, stevenson and the likes, not the best, and nowhere near good enough if we are to challenge for 3rd. Far better squad, i dont think so.

HFC 0-7
02-05-2010, 03:33 PM
Again i disagree. We were well in control yesterday, my mate sat next to me said, i cant see hearts scoring today, i agreed. The run we have been on has been poor, nobody can deny this, but the last 3 games we have lost, have all been games we should have taken something from.

And like you, i'm fuming we have lost all 3, but yesterday, 2 individual errors lost us that game imho, not formation, not team selection, and not any substitutions yogi might or might not have made. 2 basic errors, a keeper should not be making.

Nonsense! They looked just as capable of scoring as we did. They also hit the post because our midfielders were no where to close down.

As for formation and tactics, straight from the word go they were using the cross field ball to isolate murray and they got some joy, this happened all the way through the first half and nothing was done to stop it. After we scored you could see we were sitting deeper and deeper, that was the time to either go defensive or freshen things up.

I cant believe you still think Yogi is the man when he has been on such a bad run. You say its because the squad is weak, well, he had 2 transfer windows to strengthen it, he did some of that in the summer but left out replacements for key positions, he then had the January window where he should have a very good idea that the squad was weak and failed to do anything about it.

He has brought in 8 players, been given more money than most managers in hibs history, playing in a league where the 3 top clubs of recent years in Rangers, Celtic and Hearts are much weaker and so far can only muster 3 more points than Mixu who got the bullet.

We talked about how Rangers, Celtic and Hearts were all in crisis either with fincancial woes or managerial problems, Dundee Utd and Motherwell losing their managers mid season and yet these teams are the ones that have been able to cope and pick up the points where as Hibs who have made the big name signings, got a manager who has brought in the players he wants in 2 transfer windows are the ones in free fall.

Why should Yogi be given more time? What has he shown that makes him good enough. I would say that he needs to go now, if you give him the start of the new season it may mean the damage is done and next season is a write off.

Beefster
02-05-2010, 03:35 PM
When did Mixu with his best 11 available have us challenging in the middle of February?

You keep telling everyone that it's the entire season that counts. You can't have it both ways.

Barney McGrew
02-05-2010, 03:37 PM
we lost our best midfielder
because he had to replace our captain Jones, who left. We replaced Fletcher with Stokes, a better goalscorer, but not as good a player imho..

Yogi's had two windows to replace Jones with another centre half - instead he made the choice to play Bamba there instead of in midfield.

He replaced a one footed ten goal a year striker with a two footed twenty goal a year striker. He got rid of O'Brien and Chisholm and replaced them with far better players.

The squad IS far better than last year.


Miller has come in and replaced Bamba, McBride and Zemamma have come in, and when fit we were doing well, but they have been injured for long periods, Stack too, and our replacements have been cregg, rankin, stevenson and the likes, not the best, and nowhere near good enough if we are to challenge for 3rd. Far better squad, i dont think so.

We went to Tynecastle for the last derby of last season with a shadow team because of injuries and suspensions and played a midfield of O'Brien, Chisholm, Rankin and Stevenson. Despite that being (on paper) a much weaker midfield than we put out yesterday, they outfought and outworked Hertz the whole night.

Something that was sadly missing again yesterday.

HFC 0-7
02-05-2010, 03:38 PM
It pisses me off when folk keep telling me we have a much better squad than under Mixu. We have a better keeper in Stack, we lost our best midfielder
because he had to replace our captain Jones, who left. We replaced Fletcher with Stokes, a better goalscorer, but not as good a player imho.

Miller has come in and replaced Bamba, McBride and Zemamma have come in, and when fit we were doing well, but they have been injured for long periods, Stack too, and our replacements have been cregg, rankin, stevenson and the likes, not the best, and nowhere near good enough if we are to challenge for 3rd. Far better squad, i dont think so.

Lets look at who he has brought in, through from the 19's or got back from loan: -

Stokes
Miller
McBride
Cregg
Stack
Smith
Brown
Galbraith
Wotherspoon
Zemmama

Thats 10 players! He only had to lose 2 in Fletcher and Jones the rest he decided to punt. I am sorry, but you are mental if you think losing 2 players and bringing in 10 means you dont have a stronger squad. The only way this wouldnt mean we had a stronger squad would be if Yogi bought rubbish players, in which case he deserves to get the bullet!

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 03:40 PM
Nonsense! They looked just as capable of scoring as we did. They also hit the post because our midfielders were no where to close down.

As for formation and tactics, straight from the word go they were using the cross field ball to isolate murray and they got some joy, this happened all the way through the first half and nothing was done to stop it. After we scored you could see we were sitting deeper and deeper, that was the time to either go defensive or freshen things up.

I cant believe you still think Yogi is the man when he has been on such a bad run. You say its because the squad is weak, well, he had 2 transfer windows to strengthen it, he did some of that in the summer but left out replacements for key positions, he then had the January window where he should have a very good idea that the squad was weak and failed to do anything about it.

He has brought in 8 players, been given more money than most managers in hibs history, playing in a league where the 3 top clubs of recent years in Rangers, Celtic and Hearts are much weaker and so far can only muster 3 more points than Mixu who got the bullet.

We talked about how Rangers, Celtic and Hearts were all in crisis either with fincancial woes or managerial problems, Dundee Utd and Motherwell losing their managers mid season and yet these teams are the ones that have been able to cope and pick up the points where as Hibs who have made the big name signings, got a manager who has brought in the players he wants in 2 transfer windows are the ones in free fall.

Why should Yogi be given more time? What has he shown that makes him good enough. I would say that he needs to go now, if you give him the start of the new season it may mean the damage is done and next season is a write off.

I disagree with all of the above, and the reason i want him to stay, is i believe i saw enough until february to tell me he knew what to do, when he had his best side available, and as i suspected, the squad was nowhere near the 3rd best as some would like to tell us, and they were imho not good enough by a long way.

EasterRoad4Ever
02-05-2010, 03:44 PM
I don't know what's gone so badly wrong at Easter Road since the turn of the year, but if we don't see significant signs of progress by the end of October, I think it will time for Rod to let Yogi go.

I genuinely do believe that every manager should be given a decent amount of time to build his own team and I'm sure many will argue that October doesn't offer that, but if we continue to perform as we have in 2010, we'll be relegation candidates and that's a step too far in the wrong direction.

If we get a few good and appropriate signings in over the summer, I think that with the completed stadium and the wider pitch, we could be in for some exciting times next season.

However, if we have a poor start to the campaign, we'll be on a downward spiral that only a change in manager will be able address.

I do like Yogi's passion for the Hibs job, I agree with his general views on the game and I do hope he's a great success, but he needs to start getting it right very soon.

Unfortunately time isn't really the issue with Hughes - ability is. Its not about enabling him to bring in his own players or put his own mark on the team. Anyone who has watched Hibs over the season can see that Hughes has limited managerial ability - crap at substitutions, crap tactics, crap man management, basically a crap manager. Like watching anyone at work, if they prove over a reasonable period that they're just no getting it, time is unlikely to help them.

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 03:46 PM
Unfortunately time isn't really the issue with Hughes - ability is. Its not about enabling him to bring in his own players or put his own mark on the team. Anyone who has watched Hibs over the season can see that Hughes has limited managerial ability - crap at substitutions, crap tactics, crap man management, basically a crap manager. Like watching anyone at work, if they prove over a reasonable period that they're just no getting it, time is unlikely to help them.

Surely you mean since the middle of February?

hibees_green
02-05-2010, 03:59 PM
Hughes is average. In the long term the results will demonstrate this.

In fact we have an average manager, average players, an average board, an average league position year on year and average performances.

Currently the club as a whole is average.

Having said that ....... there's nowt wrong with being average.

Alfred E Newman
02-05-2010, 04:01 PM
It pisses me off when folk keep telling me we have a much better squad than under Mixu. We have a better keeper in Stack, we lost our best midfielder
because he had to replace our captain Jones, who left. We replaced Fletcher with Stokes, a better goalscorer, but not as good a player imho.

Miller has come in and replaced Bamba, McBride and Zemamma have come in, and when fit we were doing well, but they have been injured for long periods, Stack too, and our replacements have been cregg, rankin, stevenson and the likes, not the best, and nowhere near good enough if we are to challenge for 3rd. Far better squad, i dont think so.

I am confused now. Are you saying that Yogi inherited a better squad from Mixu than we have now yet you call that progress?

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 04:04 PM
I am confused now. Are you saying that Yogi inherited a better squad from Mixu than we have now yet you call that progress?

Why are you confused? We DONT have the 3rd best squad in the SPL in my opinion. And we have a maginally better side this season to last. Is that clear enough?

Dirkster23
02-05-2010, 04:12 PM
Lets look at who he has brought in, through from the 19's or got back from loan: -

Stokes
Miller
McBride
Cregg
Stack
Smith
Brown
Galbraith
Wotherspoon
Zemmama

Thats 10 players! He only had to lose 2 in Fletcher and Jones the rest he decided to punt. I am sorry, but you are mental if you think losing 2 players and bringing in 10 means you dont have a stronger squad. The only way this wouldnt mean we had a stronger squad would be if Yogi bought rubbish players, in which case he deserves to get the bullet!

Don't forget Benji coming back and Gow on loan :wink:

Despite the spin BH tries to put on it, Hughes has a far stronger squad than Mixu!

noseyhibby
02-05-2010, 04:13 PM
I genuinely think John Hughes has a week to save his job. The board have a new stand, new shirt deal, new bums to try and convince to put on seats. People often come out with this football cliche that "managers need more time". It is one of the few sporting industries where the concept of time is neglected in favour of immediate success in response to prolonged failure. Yes it will cost money to remove the management team, but I think given Sol Bamba, Zemmama, Stokes and possibly Riordan are now (in my opinion) well on the shopping/transfer list, I don't think the Board have any fears that they will be able to comfortably bear this financial burden. A massive player clear out is also not really on the cards, not only because there are severance pays to deal with, but some of the players are either not being played, some are decent squad players, and who is to say that with 3 or 4 good additions, cannot be part of a side who play a different style of football. Hibernian does however need a manager who needs to get tough behind the scenes IMO, eradicate a certain culture that has developed, and start to be 100% focused on the game, the result, and not his good relationship with the players, fans and media. He demands his team to rid itself of the "soft" tag, however he IMHO is the main contributor this season for it. If this was La Liga or Le Championnat, playing nice little passing football with time to control, look up and move, would be ideal. But sadly, it's the SPL, and our league means you have to have a blend of grit, fight, desire, no nonsense as well as technical ability, style and football. He manages in this ideal world that everyone plays the same way. That is why fundamentally we have been beaten by teams that bully, chase, harrass, and play with width, pace and braun. Look at hearts first goal yesterday and Rangers last week. Hogg bullied by both Obua and Lafferty, Hanlon turned and bullied by bloody Elliot. The Celtic goals as well........easy balls into the box, not defended, no one willing to literally throw themselves into the mixer. They are all prepared though to stand and watch each other until it is too late. If I were a manager of a fellow SPL team, beating Hibs would be an absolute cake walk. You play with width, and with some pace up top. Most goals scored against us come from crosses into the box or set pieces, not through the middle. Play four in midfield, with at least two with height. You could even get away with playing a 3-5-2 given we don't play with any width or pace whatsoever, so full backs needn't be required. Hibs are one dimensional, play through the middle, and are easy to read. Hughes - has to go IMHO because pundits, fans, ex players and ex managers all say what I see and we all see on here. His persistence at playing players off form, out of position and who are clearly not good enough means he has a stubborness which exceeds Mixu's to be honest. Having five goalkeepers who to be brutally honest, you could pick holes in all of them (perhaps very unkind to Flynn), is frankly ridiculous. Having no natural right back for a whole season is again, in professional management, neglect. Playing certain players totally out of position (Wotherspoon and Riordan) encourages mistakes and lack of confidence, not the other way about. Choosing a captain who should never be in the side let alone given the armband, was his first wrong decision and that was before a ball was kicked. Having only one player (Wotherspoon) from the youth ranks given a chance to shine is again, given the form, unacceptable. If they are good enough for a pro contract and to be on the bench, play them ! I know this will read as a rant, but I have tried to be as constructive as I can - but Hughes for me has proved that he has indeed lost the focus and as such will lose his job. Sad, but true.

Good honest post, but Yogi will not be dismissed sometime soon...just a gut feeling.:rolleyes:

Alfred E Newman
02-05-2010, 04:15 PM
Why are you confused? We DONT have the 3rd best squad in the SPL in my opinion. And we have a maginally better side this season to last. Is that clear enough?

Make up your mind. Is it better or worse?

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 04:18 PM
Make up your mind. Is it better or worse?

Are you daft, can you not read?

KWJ
02-05-2010, 04:45 PM
Don't forget Benji coming back and Gow on loan :wink:

Despite the spin BH tries to put on it, Hughes has a far stronger squad than Mixu!

so.he's.made.a.healthier.squad.while.making.us.£3M !

Legend!

Lots.of.things.have.happened.since.our.poor.run.ha s.started.

The.most.telling.is.likely.the.squad.shuffling.and .lack.of.options.on.the.bench.

He's.given.us.our.happiest.and.saddest.runs.in.a.l ong.long.time.

If.we.start.next.season.like.we've.finished.this.o ne.I'll.join.yer.club.but.i'm.confident.we.will.on ce.again.hover.around.top.5.

lets.see.the.season.out.ffs.

oh.and.worst.hearts.team.in.decades:faf:

not.great,still.top.6.

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 04:48 PM
so.he's.made.a.healthier.squad.while.making.us.£3M !

Legend!

Lots.of.things.have.happened.since.our.poor.run.ha s.started.

The.most.telling.is.likely.the.squad.shuffling.and .lack.of.options.on.the.bench.

He's.given.us.our.happiest.and.saddest.runs.in.a.l ong.long.time.

If.we.start.next.season.like.we've.finished.this.o ne.I'll.join.yer.club.but.i'm.confident.we.will.on ce.again.hover.around.top.5.

lets.see.the.season.out.ffs.

oh.and.worst.hearts.team.in.decades:faf:

not.great,still.top.6.

Why all the ..................s:faf: fwiw i agree with you.

Phil MaGlass
02-05-2010, 04:49 PM
Smith was pi5h against the yams,every time he came for a cross ball he couldnae get a hand near it,it was quite shocking,I mean WTF, he can use his hands but cannae jump high enough to catch the baw,I havent seen him enough this season to make many comments but on that one display,Maka get the gloves on.
Also another point I think the new super duper 5 million complex has made the players soft JH needs tae get these pampered oxygen thieves up and doon Arthurs seat,cos the facility is not working on these knuts.

KWJ
02-05-2010, 04:51 PM
Why all the ..................s:faf: fwiw i agree with you.

spilt.not.1.ut.2.ottles.of.eer.on.laptop.and.now.s ome.keys.dont.work.

Guess.which.question.mark

:greengrin:boo hoo:

blackpoolhibs
02-05-2010, 04:54 PM
spilt.not.1.ut.2.ottles.of.eer.on.laptop.and.now.s ome.keys.dont.work.

Guess.which.question.mark

:greengrin:boo hoo:

:faf::top marks

Removed
02-05-2010, 05:07 PM
spilt.not.1.ut.2.ottles.of.eer.on.laptop.and.now.s ome.keys.dont.work.

Guess.which.question.mark

:greengrin:boo hoo:


:faf: Now that really did make me :faf: out loud

Sorry about your laptop though

Dirkster23
02-05-2010, 05:15 PM
so.he's.made.a.healthier.squad.while.making.us.£3M !

Legend!
Off of that you'd have to take off transfer fees for players in and what's rumoured to be substantial signing on fee's for some players.
Lots.of.things.have.happened.since.our.poor.run.ha s.started.

The.most.telling.is.likely.the.squad.shuffling.and .lack.of.options.on.the.bench.
It's Yogi that shuffles the squad, no one else. What was the bench yesterday? Benji, Galbraith, Cregg, Gow, McCann? Plenty options there
He's.given.us.our.happiest.and.saddest.runs.in.a.l ong.long.time.

If.we.start.next.season.like.we've.finished.this.o ne.I'll.join.yer.club.but.i'm.confident.we.will.on ce.again.hover.around.top.5.
What clubs that? All i pointed out was the other poster had forgotten two players on his list.
lets.see.the.season.out.ffs.

oh.and.worst.hearts.team.in.decades:faf:
Did i say that??
not.great,still.top.6.
Mixu had us there too!

Alfred E Newman
02-05-2010, 06:08 PM
Are you daft, can you not read?


It pisses me off when folk keep telling me we have a much better squad than under Mixu. We have a better keeper in Stack, we lost our best midfielder
because he had to replace our captain Jones, who left. We replaced Fletcher with Stokes, a better goalscorer, but not as good a player imho.

Miller has come in and replaced Bamba, McBride and Zemamma have come in, and when fit we were doing well, but they have been injured for long periods, Stack too, and our replacements have been cregg, rankin, stevenson and the likes, not the best, and nowhere near good enough if we are to challenge for 3rd. Far better squad, i dont think so

Why are you confused? We DONT have the 3rd best squad in the SPL in my opinion. And we have a maginally better side this season to last. Is that clear enough?

Given some of your recent posts on here I think it is you that is daft.

Cropley10
02-05-2010, 07:12 PM
I disagree with all of the above, and the reason i want him to stay, is i believe i saw enough until february to tell me he knew what to do, when he had his best side available, and as i suspected, the squad was nowhere near the 3rd best as some would like to tell us, and they were imho not good enough by a long way.

But what does he do when he doesn't have his best side available? Lose?

HFC 0-7
02-05-2010, 07:15 PM
I'm getting more and more convinced you're at the wind up.

As someone who was probably the most voiceferous critic of Mixu on this board, you've turned full circle and are now backing a manager who's tactics, formations and lack of ability to have a Plan B are at times equally as bizarre as his predecessor's. What's the difference between Mixu and Yogi in your eyes?

It looks like we're going to end up only three points better off than we were last season, with a far better squad of players at the managers disposal.

That's not progress.

I am thinking the same thing, blackpool Hibs with Yogi is the same as Hibs Spain was with Maka.

greenlex
02-05-2010, 07:20 PM
spilt.not.1.ut.2.ottles.of.eer.on.laptop.and.now.s ome.keys.dont.work.

Guess.which.question.mark

:greengrin:boo hoo:
Thats a ugger. it of a astard really :faf::faf:

vahibbie
03-05-2010, 03:20 AM
:agree: As much as we dont like it, managers will always protect his players, he does not want to have a go in public, what good would that do?

Yesterday's loss was nothing to do with the managers tactics, or formation. It was clearly down to individual errors. We dont have enough good players, whatever formation we put out. And yesterday showed us, we are every bit as good as the yams, even with a side thats short of its better players, and short of confidence.

I agree with Dave, he needs time to get rid of those who are not up to the job, and he needs to get better players in.

I believe someone has already used the term "bollocks", quite rightly so.
Yogi spouted off that we sat too far back and tried to defend a one goal lead.
Granted I only watched on HibsTV but FFS I saw that within minutes of us scoring. It's exactly what we did against Celtic. Are you seriously trying to tell us that Yogi has no control over what the team does, what formation it sets itself up in and what substitutes rolls are. If he can see what's happening why can't he change it. If he can't change it then he's lost the players and should go away

KWJ
03-05-2010, 04:54 AM
Mixu had us there too!

Sorry, I wasn't referring to your quote throughout my post just the squad bit. We don't know what the signing on fees and wages were/are but with the dosh brought in from Fletch and Jones, and clearing them of the wage bill I'd still bet we must have brought in a good wedge of money.

Someone said worst Hearts team in decades, this one is still in the top 6 I was pointing out.

While I reckon on paper it's a fairly decent bench for a mid table club, he's tried them all before without much success. The team has chopped and changed because of injuries and suspensions. Sure Yogi would liked to have kept the same side together from the great run really.

KWJ
03-05-2010, 05:00 AM
I believe someone has already used the term "bollocks", quite rightly so.
Yogi spouted off that we sat too far back and tried to defend a one goal lead.
Granted I only watched on HibsTV but FFS I saw that within minutes of us scoring. It's exactly what we did against Celtic. Are you seriously trying to tell us that Yogi has no control over what the team does, what formation it sets itself up in and what substitutes rolls are. If he can see what's happening why can't he change it. If he can't change it then he's lost the players and should go away

But how often do you hear managers saying that? it happens all the time, managers might encourage them to push out but its the whole team from back to front that have to do it, not the manager.

Listening to his post match interview he was obviously disappointed about what happened to us after our goal, I just find it impossible to believe that he stood there and let it happen if he saw it. He must have been trying to change it but it didn't happen as all too often happens in football.

There's no magic button to go from being under pressure to dominating the match.

blackpoolhibs
03-05-2010, 08:32 AM
I believe someone has already used the term "bollocks", quite rightly so.
Yogi spouted off that we sat too far back and tried to defend a one goal lead.
Granted I only watched on HibsTV but FFS I saw that within minutes of us scoring. It's exactly what we did against Celtic. Are you seriously trying to tell us that Yogi has no control over what the team does, what formation it sets itself up in and what substitutes rolls are. If he can see what's happening why can't he change it. If he can't change it then he's lost the players and should go away

Are you saying we lost those goals because we sat too deep? I have said many times, there are things the manager does, that i dont agree with, but i'm sure he does not have any input in the way we defended on saturday. In fact maybe if we had just defended properly, further forward of further back, whatever.

We'd have won the game in a canter. They never looked like scoring, bar the shot that hit the post in the 1st half, was that down to them being sheite, or the manager getting his tactics right, and us being good?

Danderhall Hibs
03-05-2010, 08:33 AM
I am thinking the same thing, blackpool Hibs with Yogi is the same as Hibs Spain was with Maka.

Hibs Spain was/is deadly serious about Maka - he wasn't at the wind-up.

rainman
03-05-2010, 08:38 AM
Hibs Spain was/is deadly serious about Maka - he wasn't at the wind-up.

I always wondered that.

Do you know of any reasons? family friend? Lover?

I agreed with him when lofty was getting a game before Maka but then he wrote off every keeper Hibs signed or were linked with before a ball was kicked so i quickly realised he had a bias that came from an underlying affection for the big guy.

HFC 0-7
03-05-2010, 08:39 AM
But how often do you hear managers saying that? it happens all the time, managers might encourage them to push out but its the whole team from back to front that have to do it, not the manager.

Listening to his post match interview he was obviously disappointed about what happened to us after our goal, I just find it impossible to believe that he stood there and let it happen if he saw it. He must have been trying to change it but it didn't happen as all too often happens in football.

There's no magic button to go from being under pressure to dominating the match.

Yes, there is no magic button, thats why you would make tactical subs to stop sitting to deep, you can put a player in to sit just in front of the defence to break things up to allow the defence to push up. I would have brought McCann on and put Thicot just in front of the defence.

KWJ
03-05-2010, 08:43 AM
But it happens all the time when teams start getting pinned to deep and can't get out, the game swung. One or two subs doesn't always make a difference.

Looking at our bench I'd say I'd have done the same thing bringing on Gow as he's an attacking midfielder but more likely to win the ball than Benji.

I would also have started Thicot at centre back though alongside Hanlon.

Danderhall Hibs
03-05-2010, 08:58 AM
I always wondered that.

Do you know of any reasons? family friend? Lover?

I agreed with him when lofty was getting a game before Maka but then he wrote off every keeper Hibs signed or were linked with before a ball was kicked so i quickly realised he had a bias that came from an underlying affection for the big guy.

He doesn't think he makes any more mistakes than any other keeper and thinks we'll miss out on him when he moves on. I disagree with him but he's entitled to his opinion.

Unfortunately too many folk started posting stuff like you've just done and got the guy banned.

blackpoolhibs
03-05-2010, 09:16 AM
Hibs Spain was/is deadly serious about Maka - he wasn't at the wind-up.

I am certainly not at any wind up. I just saw enough from the team, when we had everyone fit. Once he gets rid of what i'd say was the dross, and finds more better players, i think he will come good, and we will get better. If others think differently that's fine, but I'm still behind him.

Danderhall Hibs
03-05-2010, 09:33 AM
I am certainly not at any wind up. I just saw enough from the team, when we had everyone fit. Once he gets rid of what i'd say was the dross, and finds more better players, i think he will come good, and we will get better. If others think differently that's fine, but I'm still behind him.

I never said you were BH. This is just going the same way as Hibs Spain thoguh - you'll get folks backs up by disagreeing with them and you'll end up being banned.

Toaods
03-05-2010, 09:35 AM
He doesn't think he makes any more mistakes than any other keeper and thinks we'll miss out on him when he moves on. I disagree with him but he's entitled to his opinion.

Unfortunately too many folk started posting stuff like you've just done and got the guy banned.

had a wee chat with the big fella on Saturday before K.O. - perhaps it's just aswell after that tattie Smiths poor performance.

Danderhall Hibs
03-05-2010, 09:39 AM
had a wee chat with the big fella on Saturday before K.O. - perhaps it's just aswell after that tattie Smiths poor performance.

I was sitting beside him. I don't think he could believe the 2nd - he reckons Smith's finished now after the fans' in the South Stands reaction towards him.

blackpoolhibs
03-05-2010, 09:48 AM
I never said you were BH. This is just going the same way as Hibs Spain thoguh - you'll get folks backs up by disagreeing with them and you'll end up being banned.

Banned for having a different opinion, surely not? Although to be fair, it would probably do me a favour, i have lots to do round the house, but spend way too much time on here.

Beefster
03-05-2010, 09:50 AM
I was sitting beside him. I don't think he could believe the 2nd - he reckons Smith's finished now after the fans' in the South Stands reaction towards him.

I hope not. His treatment from some fans was ****ing shocking.

Cropley10
03-05-2010, 12:21 PM
I was sitting beside him. I don't think he could believe the 2nd - he reckons Smith's finished now after the fans' in the South Stands reaction towards him.

Who were you sitting beside??:confused:

And what did the fans in the South Lower do/say?

(I know I shouldn't mention this but is GS a jambo - cos he couldnt have done any worse for their/his second)

BTW my 9 year old watched the 'high'lights on the BBC and simply said 'Smith didn't play very well'...:greengrin

Danderhall Hibs
03-05-2010, 01:17 PM
Who were you sitting beside??:confused:

And what did the fans in the South Lower do/say?

(I know I shouldn't mention this but is GS a jambo - cos he couldnt have done any worse for their/his second)

BTW my 9 year old watched the 'high'lights on the BBC and simply said 'Smith didn't play very well'...:greengrin

I was sitting beside Hibs Spain.

There were a crowd of fans in the South that ran down to the front and hurled abuse at Smith after the 2nd goal.

vahibbie
03-05-2010, 02:24 PM
Are you saying we lost those goals because we sat too deep? I have said many times, there are things the manager does, that i dont agree with, but i'm sure he does not have any input in the way we defended on saturday. In fact maybe if we had just defended properly, further forward of further back, whatever.

We'd have won the game in a canter. They never looked like scoring, bar the shot that hit the post in the 1st half, was that down to them being sheite, or the manager getting his tactics right, and us being good?

Obviously not directly, but the fact we did sit back put us in the situation where we could and did concede goals. The fact that they never looked like scoring is down to us going forward.
Yogi saw the same reaction against Celtic and he should have prepared the team for it NOT to happen again. I'm assuming he did not give instructions to sit back therefore I also have to assume the players did not respond to his instructions. OK, managers cannot always dictate what happens on the pitch but as this is a re-occuring thing with Hibs it should have been addressed. If Yogi thinks it's "just something we do" he should sub accordingly and give us a proper defensive formation to guard a lead. It may not have been all his fault but it's his team and it's about time he started shouldering some of the blame.....in fact most of the blame.

blackpoolhibs
03-05-2010, 03:14 PM
Obviously not directly, but the fact we did sit back put us in the situation where we could and did concede goals. The fact that they never looked like scoring is down to us going forward.
Yogi saw the same reaction against Celtic and he should have prepared the team for it NOT to happen again. I'm assuming he did not give instructions to sit back therefore I also have to assume the players did not respond to his instructions. OK, managers cannot always dictate what happens on the pitch but as this is a re-occuring thing with Hibs it should have been addressed. If Yogi thinks it's "just something we do" he should sub accordingly and give us a proper defensive formation to guard a lead. It may not have been all his fault but it's his team and it's about time he started shouldering some of the blame.....in fact most of the blame.

I dont think we sat deep on saturday. I think its another thing folk make up just to try and make their point more valid.

vahibbie
03-05-2010, 03:30 PM
I dont think we sat deep on saturday. I think its another thing folk make up just to try and make their point more valid.

So, you say so and it becomes fact that it didn't happen.
Well it did, and it did against Celtic as well. What's more your hero John Hughes saw it as well. What's more he at least admits it and blames at least part of it on our defeat.
I can actually see why you like Yogi.....you both spout the same nonsense after every game:devil:

Speedway
03-05-2011, 12:56 PM
I agree.

Andy74
03-05-2011, 01:28 PM
I agree.

I think this thread just illustrates how strange it was to be calling for a sacking in the position we were.

Yes, we had a shocking run, there were many reasons for that, but from here, people were already at the stage where they had turned and there is no way back for a manager and a team after that.

We are nowhere near the standard expected on this thread after the change, we may get there again some time but for me this is when we should have been showing some backing and support.

As I said on another thread I'd take a 6-6 away to Motherwell right now as I do like to at least see some attempt to play football and score goals.

We were playing with very fragile confidence which did for us in the end, and still went there and could have scored ten goals.

I actually couldn't care about Hughes, didn't really want him here in the first place but the way we treat people has to change.

At the time it was all about tactics, formations etc, now that's proved to be rubbish it's about the dross players, big change.

Do people really wonder why this club consistenty falls into the same thing time and again? Why players and managers fail?

Speedway
03-05-2011, 01:33 PM
I think this thread just illustrates how strange it was to be calling for a sacking in the position we were.

Yes, we had a shocking run, there were many reasons for that, but from here, people were already at the stage where they had turned and there is no way back for a manager and a team after that.

We are nowhere near the standard expected on this thread after the change, we may get there again some time but for me this is when we should have been showing some backing and support.

As I said on another thread I'd take a 6-6 away to Motherwell right now as I do like to at least see some attempt to play football and score goals.

We were playing with very fragile confidence which did for us in the end, and still went there and could have scored ten goals.

I actually couldn't care about Hughes, didn't really want him here in the first place but the way we treat people has to change.

At the time it was all about tactics, formations etc, now that's proved to be rubbish it's about the dross players, big change.

Do people really wonder why this club consistenty falls into the same thing time and again? Why players and managers fail?

Hence my reason for digging it up Andy.

A read through this, and others I could find, demonstrates that the manager's name is interchangeable. The support's approach, understanding and mindset is the constant.

Hibbyradge
03-05-2011, 04:19 PM
I think this thread just illustrates how strange it was to be calling for a sacking in the position we were.



Hence my reason for digging it up Andy.

A read through this, and others I could find, demonstrates that the manager's name is interchangeable. The support's approach, understanding and mindset is the constant.

Given that I started the thread, I better reply.

I didn't actually call for Hughes to be sacked. I suggested that if he didn't improve things with some decent signings in the close season, we would find ourselves as relegation candidates this season.

And I said if that was going to happen, October would be the time for him to go.

And that's exactly what did happen. He was let go in October and his players became relegation candidates.

It wasn't my mindset that made me post that. My mindset is to defend pretty much every player and manager we've ever had.

It was just blindingly obvious that under Yogi, we were in a serious downward spiral.

3pm
03-05-2011, 04:32 PM
I think this thread just illustrates how strange it was to be calling for a sacking in the position we were.

Yes, we had a shocking run, there were many reasons for that, but from here, people were already at the stage where they had turned and there is no way back for a manager and a team after that.

We are nowhere near the standard expected on this thread after the change, we may get there again some time but for me this is when we should have been showing some backing and support.

As I said on another thread I'd take a 6-6 away to Motherwell right now as I do like to at least see some attempt to play football and score goals.

We were playing with very fragile confidence which did for us in the end, and still went there and could have scored ten goals.

I actually couldn't care about Hughes, didn't really want him here in the first place but the way we treat people has to change.

At the time it was all about tactics, formations etc, now that's proved to be rubbish it's about the dross players, big change.

Do people really wonder why this club consistenty falls into the same thing time and again? Why players and managers fail?

We're not great Andy but the real nasty stuff comes from a small minority in my view. There are some on here who'd never have the brass neck to square an individual up face to face with some of the bile they post on here.

However, people have had an accumulation of 4 years of utter rubbish served up to them. People are frustrated and while I agree some need to give themselves a good look in the mirror, I understand the frustration as well.

BEEJ
03-05-2011, 04:46 PM
Given that I started the thread, I better reply.

I didn't actually call for Hughes to be sacked. I suggested that if he didn't improve things with some decent signings in the close season, we would find ourselves as relegation candidates this season.

And I said if that was going to happen, October would be the time for him to go.

And that's exactly what did happen. He was let go in October and his players became relegation candidates.

It wasn't my mindset that made me post that. My mindset is to defend pretty much every player and manager we've ever had.

It was just blindingly obvious that under Yogi, we were in a serious downward spiral.
:agree: And it proved to be a remarkably accurate observation.

This part in your OP is key:


I genuinely do believe that every manager should be given a decent amount of time to build his own team and I'm sure many will argue that October doesn't offer that, but if we continue to perform as we have in 2010, we'll be relegation candidates and that's a step too far in the wrong direction.

If we get a few good and appropriate signings in over the summer, I think that with the completed stadium and the wider pitch, we could be in for some exciting times next season.

Those who still hold a candle for Yogi, wish somehow he was still at the helm and think he was unfairly dispensed with, all too readily forget the run of results that we were on in 2010 and the kind of performances that we were witnessing.

We followed up six and a half months of excellent results with five and a half months of record-breaking dross. Yes, the squad encountered injury problems etc - but for a team to nosedive quite so spectacularly was truly alarming.

I don't know how long a support (or a club Board for that matter) should be expected to stick with a Manager under those latter circumstances. For me, the make or break for Yogi was always going to be the second summer transfer window and what he did there to turn around the fortunes of the club.

Unfortunately in that 2010 window he managed somehow to bomb in an area that many had previously considered to be one of his strengths as a Manager - his ability to spot a player and to use his network of contacts to bring a mix of young talent and experience to the club. Our highest wages were squandered on two players who, regardless of former pedigree, could no longer deliver at SPL level.

That was his undoing. You can point to the departure of Stokes but by last August his head had been turned westwards and he was never going to be the same player for us as he had been the previous season.

There was no going back for Yogi after his dealings in the 2010 summer transfer window.

IWasThere2016
03-05-2011, 07:47 PM
Given that I started the thread, I better reply.

I didn't actually call for Hughes to be sacked. I suggested that if he didn't improve things with some decent signings in the close season, we would find ourselves as relegation candidates this season.

And I said if that was going to happen, October would be the time for him to go.

And that's exactly what did happen. He was let go in October and his players became relegation candidates.

It wasn't my mindset that made me post that. My mindset is to defend pretty much every player and manager we've ever had.

It was just blindingly obvious that under Yogi, we were in a serious downward spiral.

Yet - the month before (IIRC) I posted saying much the same and got pelters. A few weeks on - with more defeats and yet more pish from Yogi - and the majority had had enough. Fickle or what?!? He had to go. IMHO October was too late.

Speedway
03-05-2011, 08:15 PM
Given that I started the thread, I better reply.

I didn't actually call for Hughes to be sacked. I suggested that if he didn't improve things with some decent signings in the close season, we would find ourselves as relegation candidates this season.

And I said if that was going to happen, October would be the time for him to go.

And that's exactly what did happen. He was let go in October and his players became relegation candidates.

It wasn't my mindset that made me post that. My mindset is to defend pretty much every player and manager we've ever had.

It was just blindingly obvious that under Yogi, we were in a serious downward spiral.

My ire is at the general tone of the thread as it disintegrates from discussion to being an excuse to attack...again.

matty_f
03-05-2011, 09:51 PM
:agree: And it proved to be a remarkably accurate observation.

This part in your OP is key:



Those who still hold a candle for Yogi, wish somehow he was still at the helm and think he was unfairly dispensed with, all too readily forget the run of results that we were on in 2010 and the kind of performances that we were witnessing.

We followed up six and a half months of excellent results with five and a half months of record-breaking dross. Yes, the squad encountered injury problems etc - but for a team to nosedive quite so spectacularly was truly alarming.

I don't know how long a support (or a club Board for that matter) should be expected to stick with a Manager under those latter circumstances. For me, the make or break for Yogi was always going to be the second summer transfer window and what he did there to turn around the fortunes of the club.

Unfortunately in that 2010 window he managed somehow to bomb in an area that many had previously considered to be one of his strengths as a Manager - his ability to spot a player and to use his network of contacts to bring a mix of young talent and experience to the club. Our highest wages were squandered on two players who, regardless of former pedigree, could no longer deliver at SPL level.

That was his undoing. You can point to the departure of Stokes but by last August his head had been turned westwards and he was never going to be the same player for us as he had been the previous season.

There was no going back for Yogi after his dealings in the 2010 summer transfer window.

Great post BEEJ.:agree: