Gordon Brown drops a clanger.

[marinello59]

Whoops.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8649012.stm

Vote loser?

[Beefster]

Whoops.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8649012.stm

Vote loser?

It could only have been worse for him if he had been utterly offensive about a little old granny.

Oh...

[Peevemor]

Coud be a vote winner depending on what she said.

Maybe he's right? :dunno:

[Beefster]

Coud be a vote winner depending on what she said.

Maybe he's right? :dunno:

Here's what she said according to the media - I can't find a video.


In the exchange Mrs Duffy said: "You can't say anything about immigrants."
She added: "All these eastern Europeans - where are they coming from?"
Mr Brown said a million people had come from Europe but another million Britons had moved the other way.

Why has he apologised 'profusely' in the media and phoned her to apologise?

Why didn't he call her a bigot to her face?

[marinello59]

]Coud be a vote winner [/B]depending on what she said.

Maybe he's right? :dunno:

Doubt it. His reaction when the tape is played back to him said it all, he knows he is in trouble with this one.

[Peevemor]

Doubt it. His reaction when the tape is played back to him said it all, he knows he is in trouble with this one.

Fair enough - I didn't watch the clip TBH.

---------- Post added at 02:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:10 PM ----------


She added: "All these eastern Europeans - where are they coming from?"

:Ummm:

[hibsbollah]

:faf:Theres a 'Thick of It' episode very similar to this story. Series 2 episode 1. Spooky.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Here's what she said according to the media - I can't find a video.


In the exchange Mrs Duffy said: "You can't say anything about immigrants."
She added: "All these eastern Europeans - where are they coming from?"
Mr Brown said a million people had come from Europe but another million Britons had moved the other way.


Why has he apologised 'profusely' in the media and phoned her to apologise?

Why didn't he call her a bigot to her face?

I'd hazard a guess at Eastern Europe.

The Thick Of It looks more like a documentary with every day that passes.

[Beefster]

:faf:Theres a 'Thick of It' episode very similar to this story. Series 2 episode 1. Spooky.

That was my first thought too! I'd love to see Malcolm Tucker's reaction to this gaffe!

[LiverpoolHibs]

:faf:Theres a 'Thick of It' episode very similar to this story. Series 2 episode 1. Spooky.

Great minds... :greengrin

[heretoday]

I think he was referring to her immigration concerns. He's been caught out.

Let no one believe that the other party leaders don't say the same sort of things in guarded moments!

The furore will take some of the gloss off the SNP debate decision. I'm sure they were hoping for good press coverage today.

[hibsbollah]

That was my first thought too! I'd love to see Malcolm Tucker's reaction to this gaffe!

"How much ****ing **** is there on the menu and what ****ing flavor is it?"
probably.:greengrin

Edit- I just found the episode: this is the conversation that will be happenning later;

Mark Davies (http://www.hibs.net/name/nm0691928/) (BBC): Malcolm, this is a traditional oldfashioned news story called "Minister looks a tit".
Malcolm Tucker (http://www.hibs.net/name/nm0134922/): Hey, everybody looks a tit, you know? Take two of these shots of him looking moronic out, leave a couple in of him looking a little bit dim, put one of him composed, drop it down in the running order, and we've got a deal.
Mark Davies (http://www.hibs.net/name/nm0691928/): What deal, Malcolm? He looks a tit, that's it! I'm sorry.
Malcolm Tucker (http://www.hibs.net/name/nm0134922/): But there is a difference between allowing someone's natural tittishness to come through and just exploiting it through camera work here! You're sticking one tit moment on top of another tit moment! That wouldn't happen in real life!

[Danderhall Hibs]

The furore will take some of the gloss off the SNP debate decision. I'm sure they were hoping for good press coverage today.

That's all they want out of it. Why spend the £50k on actual campaigning when you can spend it on a court case they can't win!

[heretoday]

"How much ****ing **** is there on the menu and what ****ing flavor is it?"
probably.:greengrin

This guy's pecker is in the fan and we're all getting ****ing splattered!

[Beefster]

YouTube - Guy News: Gordon Calls Granny a "Bigot" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkREnSghrTU)

Gogs finds out that it was all taped....

http://orderorder.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/gordon1.jpg

[hibsbollah]

YouTube - Guy News: Gordon Calls Granny a "Bigot" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkREnSghrTU)

Gogs finds out that it was all taped....

http://orderorder.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/gordon1.jpg (http://orderorder.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/gordon1.jpg)


:faf:Thats very funny. Gordon's 'tit moment'.
I hope he doesnt overdo the apology stuff.

[Woody1985]

That's all they want out of it. Why spend the £50k on actual campaigning when you can spend it on a court case they can't win!

Look at what a live debate has done for Clegg.

Any sort of exposure at that level is almost certain to generate some more interest in any party if they come across well. If they were to get some success it would be the best 50k any politician has ever spent.

The stance, from what I've read, that the BBC are taking is 'Well you can't win so **** off' and that's pretty much the tone of it as well.

Even if he doesn't win this, he should be able to create a future debate with the Scottish leaders of the other parties.

[Mibbes Aye]

Here's what she said according to the media - I can't find a video.


In the exchange Mrs Duffy said: "You can't say anything about immigrants."
She added: "All these eastern Europeans - where are they coming from?"
Mr Brown said a million people had come from Europe but another million Britons had moved the other way.

Why has he apologised 'profusely' in the media and phoned her to apologise?

Why didn't he call her a bigot to her face?

She's wrong there :agree:

Immigrants have contributed massively, disproportionately even, to the rich social and cultural fabric of these islands for centuries past and centuries to come.

See? I just said something about immigrants :greengrin

[JimBHibees]

'Why did they put me with that woman?'

Says it all about the completely stage managed Labour campaign. He obviously didnt have his rent a crowd as he so obviously did yesterday in Glasgow. The fake cheers for the bold Gordon was cringeworthy.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Look at what a live debate has done for Clegg.

Any sort of exposure at that level is almost certain to generate some more interest in any party if they come across well. If they were to get some success it would be the best 50k any politician has ever spent.

The stance, from what I've read, that the BBC are taking is 'Well you can't win so **** off' and that's pretty much the tone of it as well.

Even if he doesn't win this, he should be able to create a future debate with the Scottish leaders of the other parties.

Why would the folk in the rest of Britain be bothered about whatever Salmond's got to say though? They won't be able to vote on him anyway! And all he'd be there for would be to snipe at the others rather than tell everyone what his policies are.

BTW the radio says they did lose the case.

[bawheid]

'Why did they put me with that woman?'

Says it all about the completely stage managed Labour campaign. He obviously didnt have his rent a crowd as he so obviously did yesterday in Glasgow. The fake cheers for the bold Gordon was cringeworthy.

Of course it's stage managed. The whole bloody thing is stage managed - for every party not just Labour.

[RyeSloan]

Why would the folk in the rest of Britain be bothered about whatever Salmond's got to say though? They won't be able to vote on him anyway! And all he'd be there for would be to snipe at the others rather than tell everyone what his policies are.

BTW the radio says they did lose the case.

No one can he's not even standing for election!!!

The SNP seem to be classic whingers, they have ironically managed to get plenty of air time due to this issue and of course, from what I have heard, have had nothing positive to say about anything....

[steakbake]

4 minutes of dialogue.

Two lines of it were about immigration and to be honest, it wasn't particularly extreme.

Most of what she was saying was about benefits, education and protecting the vulnerable. She was asking about the national debt in a way that she was concerned about it. It's a far cry from the sort of folk that you would consider a bigot.

Brown's in a huff because he was given difficult questions from a real person as opposed to being given easy questions from a rentastooge.

[steakbake]

Not sure that turning up to her house is a great idea and bringing the whole media with him.

BBC spinning it like the best of them though.

[SlickShoes]

Don't think hes done anything wrong, she is a bigot maybe she should realise that.

HE should stick by what he said and not offer an apology, i know i wouldnt, think that might win him more votes than going round her house and phoning her and grovelling.

[steakbake]

Don't think hes done anything wrong, she is a bigot maybe she should realise that.

HE should stick by what he said and not offer an apology, i know i wouldnt, think that might win him more votes than going round her house and phoning her and grovelling.

What did she say that was bigoted?

Alls I heard her say was something along the lines of "...and you cannot talk about immigration... we have people flocking here who have come from eastern europe.." She got her stats wrong then so did Gordon, but she didn't say anything other than that.

Besides that comment, the rest of her questions to him were about the national debt, tax on her pension, education for her grandkids and protecting the vulnerable.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/apr/28/gordon-brown-gillian-duffy-transcript

[One Day Soon]

I thought the apology on her doorstep was even worse.

[PeeJay]

What did she say that was bigoted?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/apr/28/gordon-brown-gillian-duffy-transcript (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/apr/28/gordon-brown-gillian-duffy-transcript)

Who cares ... European stock markets are in freefall, Greece is demanding billions from the EU to save it, the banking/financial institutions are back to their old tricks and deals at our expense, the UK economic crisis is far from being solved and German TV is not showing the Barca game at all this evening ... but, hey, Mrs Duffy and Mr Brown are THE media topic of the day ... :faf:

Not funny, not good PR for the UK!

[Phil D. Rolls]

Here's what she said according to the media - I can't find a video.


In the exchange Mrs Duffy said: "You can't say anything about immigrants."
She added: "All these eastern Europeans - where are they coming from?"
Mr Brown said a million people had come from Europe but another million Britons had moved the other way.

Why has he apologised 'profusely' in the media and phoned her to apologise?

Why didn't he call her a bigot to her face?

:hmmm: Ipswich?

[Hainan Hibs]

I thought Brown was hilarious:faf:

Complete act with the woman, a nice cheery good-bye, gets in the car and "well that was a disaster"

Gaun Gordo:thumbsup:

[steakbake]

I thought Brown was hilarious:faf:

Complete act with the woman, a nice cheery good-bye, gets in the car and "well that was a disaster"

Gaun Gordo:thumbsup:

A real Jekyll and Hyde character. :agree:

He's a control freak and even when it was all laid in front of him to see, he still blamed the aide, then the woman for her questions, then the media. Finally, he got round to himself and how he might have 'interpreted' what she said - so not really his fault, just she didn't make herself clear enough for Brown to understand.

Quite a few Labour folks whistling in the dark about how it makes him appear more human and might attract people to supporting him. Personally, I don't really think there's that many people who can honestly say he's come out of it with any real dignity.

[Calvin]

What's the problem here? Guy get's a woman who's a pain in the ass and bitches about her a bit. I know I do it when I don't like a customer. It's just a symptom of working with the public and I can guarantee nearly every politician will do it.

[hibsdaft]

What's the problem here? Guy get's a woman who's a pain in the ass and bitches about her a bit. I know I do it when I don't like a customer. It's just a symptom of working with the public and I can guarantee nearly every politician will do it.

a lot of truth in that, although the woman was a citizen, not a customer.

the thing is, for the main parties politics is a game and like all games, you have to play it and be seen to play it. if you get caught saying something like in this instance you've lost the game even if all he's said is what many other might be thinking.

i don't understand why he was mic'd up in the first place mind you. always a recipe for disaster.

personally i think it was pretty bad either way, showed total disrespect for what seemed like a decent enough older woman.

[easty]

:faf:Thats very funny. Gordon's 'tit moment'.
I hope he doesnt overdo the apology stuff.

suppose you could say it'll be difficult, difficult, lemon difficult for him...

[BEEJ]

Don't think hes done anything wrong, she is a bigot maybe she should realise that.
You should watch the whole 5 minutes of Brown's original encounter with the woman. The accusation of bigotry from our esteemed leader was totally inappropriate.


A real Jekyll and Hyde character. :agree:

Quite a few Labour folks whistling in the dark about how it makes him appear more human and might attract people to supporting him. Personally, I don't really think there's that many people who can honestly say he's come out of it with any real dignity.
:agree: If that's how he deals with one of his own (a Labour voter all her life) then one can only imagine the contempt with which he holds the other 70% of the UK population. :greengrin


personally i think it was pretty bad either way, showed total disrespect for what seemed like a decent enough older woman.
Exactly. :agree:

[Betty Boop]

Don't think hes done anything wrong, she is a bigot maybe she should realise that.

HE should stick by what he said and not offer an apology, i know i wouldnt, think that might win him more votes than going round her house and phoning her and grovelling.

I don't think he should have apologised either, however if he thought she was wrong, he should have challenged her at the time.

[poolman]

What's the problem here? Guy get's a woman who's a pain in the ass and bitches about her a bit. I know I do it when I don't like a customer. It's just a symptom of working with the public and I can guarantee nearly every politician will do it.


The problem is that it's not the thing to do when you are trying to win a General Election

The man's a buffoon

[Phil D. Rolls]

The funniest thing that I saw last night amongst the slack jawed Northerners being interested, was the lady who complained about immigrants taking "our jobs".

Her name was Mrs. O'Sullivan.

[hibsbollah]

suppose you could say it'll be difficult, difficult, lemon difficult for him...

He really shouldnt have taken a **** with his clothes on:agree:

[Beefster]

The funniest thing that I saw last night amongst the slack jawed Northerners being interested, was the lady who complained about immigrants taking "our jobs".

Her name was Mrs. O'Sullivan.

Newsnight interviewed a black woman and Asian family from Rochdale who said it was right to be concerned about the effects of immigration in the town. I've never been to Rochdale but I'd say that a resident, irrespective of their ancestral links to immigration, might know the score.

[JimBHibees]

Of course it's stage managed. The whole bloody thing is stage managed - for every party not just Labour.

And thats right is it. Brown moaning about speaking to a real person, boo hoo. So out of touch it is embarressing.

[LancsHibs]

Pure Tv gold, nearly fell off my chair when I saw it:faf: The best bit for me was when they played the recording to him in the radio studio and you could see the split second when his world fell out of his bottom:faf:

What a fud.

[lyonhibs]

Gordon Brown really has put his big gallumphing foot in it this time.

I was expecting the auld biddy to have said something properly racist, but she said nothing particularly offensive.

He should have just responded to her - staggeringly stupid I hasten to add - question of "Where are all the Eastern Europeans coming from" with the simple riposte "Eastern Europe, you thick bint, where do you think??" *



* = the last part of this riposte is optional :greengrin

[bawheid]

And thats right is it. Brown moaning about speaking to a real person, boo hoo. So out of touch it is embarressing.

Who's saying it's right?

You were having a go at Labour for stage-managed electioneering. They're all at it.

You could argue that the SNP are out of touch for their tantrum at the High Court yesterday. What a waste of licence payer's money having to defend that nonsense.

[JimBHibees]

Who's saying it's right?

You were having a go at Labour for stage-managed electioneering. They're all at it.

You could argue that the SNP are out of touch for their tantrum at the High Court yesterday. What a waste of licence payer's money having to defend that nonsense.

Personally think Labour are petrified of Brown speaking to anyone normal much more than any of the other parties. IMO they see him as a liability as yesterday shows they may be right. Why couldnt he shoot down the auld biddy if he is Mr Substance rather than being petrified to even speak about immigration no doubt ordered not to by the super slick know it alls like Campbell and Mandelson.

SNP court case was no doubt an attention seeking exercise however think they have the right to do it if they think they have been wronged.

[Woody1985]

Personally think Labour are petrified of Brown speaking to anyone normal much more than any of the other parties. IMO they see him as a liability as yesterday shows they may be right. Why couldnt he shoot down the auld biddy if he is Mr Substance rather than being petrified to even speak about immigration no doubt ordered not to by the super slick know it alls like Campbell and Mandelson.

SNP court case was no doubt an attention seeking exercise however think they have the right to do it if they think they have been wronged.

I love the irony that seems to have completely bypassed the media about the comments she made.

She didn't say anthing out of order, perhaps she didn't atriculate her point correctly, or even get the chance to as he was too busy smiling and trying to get away.

She was called a bigot for saying that 'You can't say anyhing about these Eastern Europeans'.

I think what she was trying to say is that you can't even raise the subject of immigration without being called a racist or a bigot. It looks like she was proved correct.

I bet she's on TV in a couple of weeks when she's at the polling station. It will be interesting to see who she votes for.

[Twa Cairpets]

This whole thing is being ridiculously overplayed.

1. Politicians get stick for stage managing meetings, then get stick for saying something not stage managed.

2. (Very) mildly offensive biddy says something, politician says something equally mildly "off-message" and is caught.

3. Every news programme one week before a General Election leads on this story for around half of every bulletion that day. We hear virtually nothing on mainstream media from any other party about what they have been campaigning over.

This is utter, utter p!sh. I'm no particular Brown fan, and havent decided who I'm voting for, but this supposed "gaffe" will make not the merest hint of an iota of difference.

We're in the biggest recession for decades and the election may be affected by this petty drivel. Deeply sad.

[Beefster]

This is utter, utter p!sh. I'm no particular Brown fan, and havent decided who I'm voting for, but this supposed "gaffe" will make not the merest hint of an iota of difference.

We're in the biggest recession for decades and the election may be affected by this petty drivel. Deeply sad.

Sorry to be a pedant but we're out of recession.

When Gordon Brown has been making a big deal of the "I'm a working class, no, middle class, no, working class son of the manse who shares your values" lines then anything that contradicts that has been made fair game by him trying to make an issue of it in the first place.

Politicians can't play it however they want and then scream foul when someone shows them to be a hypocrite.

[Phil D. Rolls]

If I was Brown I would have told her to her face that she was talking p*sh, and be done with it. I'm sure the media would have applauded my honesty.

[Twa Cairpets]

Sorry to be a pedant but we're out of recession.

When Gordon Brown has been making a big deal of the "I'm a working class, no, middle class, no, working class son of the manse who shares your values" lines then anything that contradicts that has been made fair game by him trying to make an issue of it in the first place.

Politicians can't play it however they want and then scream foul when someone shows them to be a hypocrite.

Pedantry is good - keeps you on yer toes. Fair point, out of recession but facing a monumental debt hole.

Whether Brown (or Clegg or Cameron) says something off-guard, in a supposedly private conversation is just showing that they are subject to normal pressures. If he had said "she's obviously an evil, satanic kitten-torturing Nazi, and I want you to get MI5 to take her out with extreme prejudice", then yeah, thats maybe going OTT, but it wasnt.

Its just luck that he got caught rather than either of the other two, or Salmond. If anyone thinks that some of their private views of individuals differ from what they publicly proclaim, then that is surely delusional. Every person in the planet does it (being nice/polite to people you instantly take a dislike to on short acquaintance then bitch about them afterwards).

[steakbake]

I read an article in the PC Thug's Manifesto (The Independent) which made a very interesting point.

A summary as I read it is: Brown is a complete control freak. He is totally out of his depth in any situation which has not been carefully choreographed and stage managed. The irony is that he handled the situation very well but because it was not on his terms and was not carefully staged managed to his specifications, he felt it was a disaster.

www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/steve-richards/steve-richards-why-did-brown-make-this-blunder-1957036.html

Worth a read.

[lucky]

Thought he totally overly reacted but so has the media. Do you think we would have had the same blanket coverage if Cameron had said something offline? The Tory press would not have swooned on Rochdale in such a manner.

I hear Wee Eck is gutted he now wants to call of Scotland *******s so he can get some publicity since his £50k stunt with other peoples money failed.

[gringojoe]

Gillian Duffy is old Labour, working class cares about her community. Gordon Brown is a politician cares about himself and even uses his dead child and disabled child to try and win votes hence the talk with Piers Moragn.

[Beefster]

Thought he totally overly reacted but so has the media. Do you think we would have had the same blanket coverage if Cameron had said something offline? The Tory press would not have swooned on Rochdale in such a manner.

I hear Wee Eck is gutted he now wants to call of Scotland *******s so he can get some publicity since his £50k stunt with other peoples money failed.

Course they would have.

I presume you are including the BBC, CNN, Guardian, Independent and Mirror in the 'Tory press'?

[easty]

This is utter, utter p!sh. I'm no particular Brown fan, and havent decided who I'm voting for, but this supposed "gaffe" will make not the merest hint of an iota of difference.

We're in the biggest recession for decades and the election may be affected by this petty drivel. Deeply sad.

Exactly my thoughts, you should vote for the party you believe has the best policies, what Gordon Brown said about this old women is, although unfortunate for Labour, irrelevant on the grand scheme of things. Anybody who was planning to vote Labour but has, after seeing Browns "clanger", changed thier mind and will now vote for, say, the Tories is more than slightly naive.

My opinion only. Make an informed choice, dont vote for "anyone but Gordon Brown".

[easty]

Gillian Duffy is old Labour, working class cares about her community. Gordon Brown is a politician cares about himself and even uses his dead child and disabled child to try and win votes hence the talk with Piers Moragn.

You dont seriously believe that do you?

[gringojoe]

You dont seriously believe that do you?

Sympathy vote that is all he was after, the man would sell his granny even if she wasn't a bigot.

[hibsdaft]

Gillian Duffy is old Labour, working class cares about her community. Gordon Brown is a politician cares about himself and even uses his dead child and disabled child to try and win votes hence the talk with Piers Moragn.

don't think Gordon Brown has a disabled child, although he had a child who died shortly after birth. i think you're mistaking him with Cameron, who did have a disabled child, who died aged six or so.

imo both have used these tragedies and its sickening.

[gringojoe]

don't think Gordon Brown has a disabled child, although he had a child who died shortly after birth. i think you're mistaking him with Cameron, who did have a disabled child, who died aged six or so.

imo both have used these tragedies and its sickening.

Gordon Browns youngest son has cystic fibrosis.

[hibsdaft]

didn't know that,

[steakbake]

Sympathy vote that is all he was after, the man would sell his granny even if she wasn't a bigot.

He's definitely a cynical politician. I reckon though, that bringing his family circumstances into an interview probably wasn't his idea but he'd be going along with it on the advice of those around him, who were desperate for someone who has his clear lack of social skills to appear more human.

[hibsbollah]

Interesting; both the results of the poll showing most people dont think any the worse of Brown for the remark and that The Sun didnt print its own poll:greengrin

Unpublished YouGov/Sun poll shows support for Gordon Brown over 'bigot' remark

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/apr/29/unpublished-sun-poll-brown-bigot (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/apr/29/unpublished-sun-poll-brown-bigot)

An opinion poll for the Sun (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/sun) has found more people thought none the worse of Gordon Brown (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/gordon-brown) for describing a Labour voter as a "bigoted woman" (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/apr/28/gordon-brown-penitent-bigot-gaffe-campaign), than believed he was a hypocrite – but the newspaper decided not to publish the figures.

The results provide some comfort for Labour after the incident continued to dominate the news agenda for much of the day, overshadowing the build-up to the final leaders' debate. They also indicate that the embarrassing episode for the prime minister has had a minimal effect on voter intentions.

Voters were asked about their perception of the Labour leader in the aftermath of the insulting private comments he made about 65-year-old Gillian Duffy (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/gillian-duffy), caught on an open Sky microphone yesterday, after she had challenged him on issues including the national debt and immigration. The prime minister later apologised to Duffy in person for his comments, saying he was a "penitent sinner".

Asked if they agreed with the statement "It's a storm in a teacup. Mr Brown was simply trying to let off steam in private. We should not think the worse of him", 50% of those polled by YouGov agreed.

By way of comparison, 46% agreed with the statement: "Mr Brown is a hypocrite – saying one thing in public and the opposite in private." The remaining 4% of respondents were undecided.

The survey, carried out yesterday, also showed that just 9% of the 527 people polled said the episode was less likely to make them vote Labour, while 3% said it was more likely to make them vote Labour. The overwhelming majority – 83% – said it would not affect their voting intentions.

The Sun's failure to run the results is likely to be seized upon by critics of the paper who have accused it of not publishing the details of polls that are unfavourable to the Conservatives. The Sun announced it was backing the Tories (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/sep/30/sun-ditches-labour-for-tories), after 12 years of support for Labour, in September last year. Last week the Lib Dems accused the paper of suppressing the results of a YouGov poll (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sun-censored-poll-that-showed-support-for-lib-dems-1951940.html) that showed that if people thought Nick Clegg's party had a significant chance of winning the election, it would win 49% of the votes, with the Tories winning 25% and Labour just 19%.

The Sun also decided not to publish the details of another poll taken yesterday that was favourable to the Lib Dems. It showed that 29% of people thought the Lib Dems were being the most honest about spending cuts, compared to 26% who named the Conservatives and 21% who plumped for Labour.

The Sun's decision not to run the "bigot-gate" poll was highlighted by Mark Pack (http://www.libdemvoice.org/well-fancy-that-two-other-poll-results-the-sun-paid-for-but-didnt-report-19190.html), co-editor of the Liberal Democrat Voice website. He noted the results had appeared on the YouGov website – in compliance with the rules of the British Polling Council. There is no question YouGov had done anything wrong. Pack added: "The Sun do commission more opinion polls (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/polls) than you would expect them to publish ... but it's very striking when you have the Sun running a story and they have put forward a polling question that gives a very different slant [in its results]."
The Sun had not responded to the Guardian's request for a comment by the time of publication.

[lyonhibs]

Gillian Duffy is old Labour, working class cares about her community. Gordon Brown is a politician cares about himself and even uses his dead child and disabled child to try and win votes hence the talk with Piers Moragn.

Dearie me - you honestly believe that?? You HONESTLY believe that Gordon Brown sees the death of his weeks old baby as some sort of brownie point getting marketing tool??

Either Gordon Brown is a despicable ***** or you are slavering some pretty extreme pish, and I know which one I'm going for.

Unless you happen to be an insider that scripted Brown's chat with Piers Morgan with the footnote "Well up with tears when talking about your baby - the voters will love that"??? :confused:

[steakbake]

I read that further polls due out this evening might be more relevant and more interesting. Remember - this only happened yesterday so YouGov have had only since yesterday afternoon until presumably yesterday evening to contact their sample group. The YouGov poll uses the same people on voting intentions - it's a daily poll. I think pollsters who are doing their fieldwork from yesterday afternoon until today evening/tomorrow morning will reflect the situation more accurately. I'm not a polling expert at all, but I think that stands to reason.

If this becomes a trend, then Brown will be able to breath a small sigh of relief.

The fact that The Sun have chosen to not publish it just goes to show that it's not about facts or information anymore, it's all about spin! They're also more than a bit pissed off that they couldn't buy her story.

Depressing times for fans of democracy and openness, though.

[BEEJ]

When Gordon Brown has been making a big deal of the "I'm a working class, no, middle class, no, working class son of the manse who shares your values" lines then anything that contradicts that has been made fair game by him trying to make an issue of it in the first place.

Politicians can't play it however they want and then scream foul when someone shows them to be a hypocrite.
:agree:

I believe the sentence (sic):

"With me, what you see is what you get"

was one of Brown's claims earlier in the election campaign as he positioned himself as the man of substance and integrity to continue in office at no. 10.

Yesterday's events cast serious doubt over that claim and lend much more credence to the stories that were emerging earlier in the year about Brown's bullying of staff.

That's why his Rochdale gaff carries so much weight.

[Twa Cairpets]

:agree:

I believe the sentence (sic):

"With me, what you see is what you get"

was one of Brown's claims earlier in the election campaign as he positioned himself as the man of substance and integrity to continue in office at no. 10.

Yesterday's events cast serious doubt over that claim and lend much more credence to the stories that were emerging earlier in the year about Brown's bullying of staff.

That's why his Rochdale gaff carries so much weight.

Sorry Beej, I think you are affording this way, way to much weight. If you expect that anyone, never mind a politician is absolutely perfect in their behaviour you are living in a fantasy world.

By your definition, Brown should have said, "well Mrs wummin, I hear what you are saying but I view them as bigoted nonsense, and that the very fact I have been allowed to speak to you at all is a potential disaster". Is that really what you want to hear your PM say, or should he be relatively polite and keep his comments to his team. Which is what he did.

Conflating integrity with politeness in this issue is not fair. I see nothing at all to back up any bullying claims either.

[One Day Soon]

Gillian Duffy is old Labour, working class cares about her community. Gordon Brown is a politician cares about himself and even uses his dead child and disabled child to try and win votes hence the talk with Piers Moragn.

That statement is seriously out of order and I'm afraid it says more about you than it does Gordon Brown. You should just retract it.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Either Gordon Brown is a despicable ***** or you are slavering some pretty extreme pish, and I know which one I'm going for.

:

Is there an option for both?:greengrin

Joking aside, I can't believe it has been seriously suggested that he uses the death of his kid as a point scoring mechanism.

[One Day Soon]

Is there an option for both?:greengrin

Joking aside, I can't believe it has been seriously suggested that he uses the death of his kid as a point scoring mechanism.

Indeed Glesgae, you and I can at least agree on that.

[McHibby]

Gillian Duffy is old Labour, working class cares about her community. Gordon Brown is a politician cares about himself and even uses his dead child and disabled child to try and win votes hence the talk with Piers Moragn.

I think that's a bit much to be honest.

The media have definately blown this story out of all proportion. I don't think Brown has come out it looking too great, but he hardly called her a pishy-smelling auld hag.

It's interesting (though not surprising) that The Sun isn't publishing polls which show either Labour or Lib Dems is a favourable light. My initial reaction is that it's not right that they can try and manipulate people in this way. What do you all think about it? I've always thought it a bit weird that newspapers declare their support for one party or another anyway, but surely supressing stories in order to benefit a political party is taking it a step too far.

[One Day Soon]

I think that's a bit much to be honest.

The media have definately blown this story out of all proportion. I don't think Brown has come out it looking too great, but he hardly called her a pishy-smelling auld hag.

It's interesting (though not surprising) that The Sun isn't publishing polls which show either Labour or Lib Dems is a favourable light. My initial reaction is that it's not right that they can try and manipulate people in this way. What do you all think about it? I've always thought it a bit weird that newspapers declare their support for one party or another anyway, but surely supressing stories in order to benefit a political party is taking it a step too far.

Its all about their sales and protecting their business interests. The Sun is pro-Tory in England and pro-SNP in Scotland - work that one out. All these papers position themselves as reporting the news when really they are just pushing their product to a market place.

We have a problem with the media in this country - its out of control. They like to set people up then tear them down. Today its Labour, soon it will be the SNP and then eventually the Tories. And its almost always personalities rather than substance or issues.

[BEEJ]

Sorry Beej, I think you are affording this way, way to much weight. If you expect that anyone, never mind a politician is absolutely perfect in their behaviour you are living in a fantasy world.

By your definition, Brown should have said, "well Mrs wummin, I hear what you are saying but I view them as bigoted nonsense, and that the very fact I have been allowed to speak to you at all is a potential disaster". Is that really what you want to hear your PM say, or should he be relatively polite and keep his comments to his team. Which is what he did.

Conflating integrity with politeness in this issue is not fair. I see nothing at all to back up any bullying claims either.
Not a question of perfection. Not at all.

The irony about the whole sorry episode is that Brown actually handled the discussion with the woman quite well. The meeting ended amicably with a lifetime labour supporter expressing continued support for her leader and wishing him well in the election.

It only became a disaster when Brown massively over-reacted 'in private' because he thought somehow the encounter had been a massive PR calamity. That he should then seek to denigrate the woman in that way (the implication of bigotry being wholly inappropriate based on the evidence of the discourse that had occurred just minutes before) gives the public greater insight into Brown's persona.

Your middle paragraph actually infers that Brown's criticism of the woman was somehow correct. That the only error Brown made was to be caught uttering it. :confused: If that is so, it's not me that's the fantasist.

The point is that his attitude to that woman and that encounter was wrong. What he uttered revealed that starkly. Unfortunately he does not seem to be the man of the people that he likes to be portrayed as.

[Twa Cairpets]

Not a question of perfection. Not at all.

The irony about the whole sorry episode is that Brown actually handled the discussion with the woman quite well. The meeting ended amicably with a lifetime labour supporter expressing continued support for her leader and wishing him well in the election.

It only became a disaster when Brown massively over-reacted 'in private' because he thought somehow the encounter had been a massive PR calamity. That he should then seek to denigrate the woman in that way (the implication of bigotry being wholly inappropriate based on the evidence of the discourse that had occurred just minutes before) gives the public greater insight into Brown's persona.

Your middle paragraph actually infers that Brown's criticism of the woman was somehow correct. That the only error Brown made was to be caught uttering it. :confused: If that is so, it's not me that's the fantasist.

The point is that his attitude to that woman and that encounter was wrong. What he uttered revealed that starkly. Unfortunately he does not seem to be the man of the people that he likes to be portrayed as.

I suspect it was the line "What about all the eastern europeans coming over" that provoked the reaction. Maybe lightly bigoted, maybe not - I dont know.

But the reaction was what it was, and it was as inoffensive in its attitude as possible. He didnt go OTT, and it didnt show him to be anything other than someone who was maybe personally sensitive (possibly over-sensitive) to conversational inferences of bigotry, which I'm personally quite happy with.

[JimBHibees]

I read that further polls due out this evening might be more relevant and more interesting. Remember - this only happened yesterday so YouGov have had only since yesterday afternoon until presumably yesterday evening to contact their sample group. The YouGov poll uses the same people on voting intentions - it's a daily poll. I think pollsters who are doing their fieldwork from yesterday afternoon until today evening/tomorrow morning will reflect the situation more accurately. I'm not a polling expert at all, but I think that stands to reason.

If this becomes a trend, then Brown will be able to breath a small sigh of relief.

The fact that The Sun have chosen to not publish it just goes to show that it's not about facts or information anymore, it's all about spin! They're also more than a bit pissed off that they couldn't buy her story.

Depressing times for fans of democracy and openness, though.

Personally think the more shocking one was the one about if people thought Clegg's party could seriously win the election 49% would vote for him.

---------- Post added at 09:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 AM ----------


Its all about their sales and protecting their business interests. The Sun is pro-Tory in England and pro-SNP in Scotland - work that one out. All these papers position themselves as reporting the news when really they are just pushing their product to a market place.

We have a problem with the media in this country - its out of control. They like to set people up then tear them down. Today its Labour, soon it will be the SNP and then eventually the Tories. And its almost always personalities rather than substance or issues.

Complete nonsense.

[Hainan Hibs]

Complete nonsense.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to see that, I thought I had entered a Tardis by mistake and went back to 1992.

[BEEJ]

I suspect it was the line "What about all the eastern europeans coming over" that provoked the reaction. Maybe lightly bigoted, maybe not - I dont know.

But the reaction was what it was, and it was as inoffensive in its attitude as possible. He didnt go OTT, and it didnt show him to be anything other than someone who was maybe personally sensitive (possibly over-sensitive) to conversational inferences of bigotry, which I'm personally quite happy with.
By implication then, to express any reservations about the scale of immigration to the UK is to be immediately branded as a bigot. This is more or less what the woman had started to say before her 'Eastern Europeans' comment. And Brown, obliging as ever, subsequently proved her point. :greengrin

There are very many UK citizens of all creeds, colours and political persuasions who are expressing concerns about the scale of net immigration to this country - far, far more than will be voting for BNP and UKIP next Thursday.

Bigots, the lot of them, it would appear. :rolleyes:

[PeeJay]

To lighten things up a little - anybody seen this ... this guy is really quite good?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-april-29-2010/cluster****-to-10-downing (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-april-29-2010/cluster****-to-10-downing)

:greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

To lighten things up a little - anybody seen this ... this guy is really quite good?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-april-29-2010/cluster****-to-10-downing (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-april-29-2010/cluster****-to-10-downing)

:greengrin

Not available in the UK unfortunately. Would have been good, I love the Daily Show. It's kind of an American version of the One Show :duck:.

[PeeJay]

Not available in the UK unfortunately. Would have been good, I love the Daily Show. It's kind of an American version of the One Show :duck:.


I don't know what the "One Show" is - should I :confused:?

Anyway, maybe this link works - I took it from the Grauniad, so you guys should actually get it
http://tv.gawker.com/5527780/jon-stewart-mocks-the-laughable-tameness-of-british-political-scandals (http://tv.gawker.com/5527780/jon-stewart-mocks-the-laughable-tameness-of-british-political-scandals)

[Beefster]

I don't know what the "One Show" is - should I :confused:?

Anyway, maybe this link works - I took it from the Grauniad, so you guys should actually get it
http://tv.gawker.com/5527780/jon-stewart-mocks-the-laughable-tameness-of-british-political-scandals (http://tv.gawker.com/5527780/jon-stewart-mocks-the-laughable-tameness-of-british-political-scandals)

Think 'Nationwide' that used to be on every day from way back.

Edit: The clip worked second time round. Classic.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I don't know what the "One Show" is - should I :confused:?

Anyway, maybe this link works - I took it from the Grauniad, so you guys should actually get it
http://tv.gawker.com/5527780/jon-stewart-mocks-the-laughable-tameness-of-british-political-scandals (http://tv.gawker.com/5527780/jon-stewart-mocks-the-laughable-tameness-of-british-political-scandals)

It's kind of like Nationwide used to be, but has a lot of vaccuous laughter in it. Serious items are sandwiched in between tips on how to get the most out of your mobile phone.

[steakbake]

One of the best "One Show" was the day Morrissey was the celeb on the couch. Absolute class.


Chiles: Apparently your mum loves this show...
Mozza: My mum watches this show and that's why I'm here, but I'm not sure if it's true to say that she loves it. She's certainly very impressed, but she's not without criticism.

Then they had a feature on joblessness and people claiming benefits:

Mozza: I was quite happy to be unemployed. I couldn't think of a job that I wanted to do, so I thought it'd be best if I did none.

[Phil D. Rolls]

One of the best "One Show" was the day Morrissey was the celeb on the couch. Absolute class.


Chiles: Apparently your mum loves this show...
Mozza: My mum watches this show and that's why I'm here, but I'm not sure if it's true to say that she loves it. She's certainly very impressed, but she's not without criticism.

Then they had a feature on joblessness and people claiming benefits:

Mozza: I was quite happy to be unemployed. I couldn't think of a job that I wanted to do, so I thought it'd be best if I did none.

I'm sure they had Alexandra Burke on when they were doing a feature on homelessness or something. Dead from the neck up she was.

[steakbake]

I'm sure they had Alexandra Burke on when they were doing a feature on homelessness or something. Dead from the neck up she was.

Sometimes that happens, especially if you have a lot going on from the neck down. Like she does.

[Sir David Gray]

I think we got an insight on Wednesday into what people have been saying about Gordon Brown ever since he became PM. He'll say one thing in front of the TV cameras, but as soon as he's in private (or so he thinks) he turns into this person with a very nasty temper.

Everyone says things about people when they are out of earshot, that they wouldn't necessarily say to them face-to-face. But what makes this a particularly unsavoury incident is that Brown and Mrs Duffy apparently left on good terms. She had just had a bit of banter as he left her and she also said that she would be voting Labour. She was quite happy with the discussion that she had just had with Brown. He, too, had just smiled and had shared a joke with her as he was about to get into his car.

For him then to have said what he did about 30 seconds later, when he thought no-one could see/hear him, was disgraceful. If they had just had a massive public row and she had been calling him all the names under the sun and they had left on bad terms then I could have understood why he would say such a thing about her. I also couldn't fathom why he thought the encounter had been a "disaster". Before his remarks in the car, I saw nothing during that encounter which could be described as being a disaster. I think that proves how just out of touch with reality Gordon Brown actually is.

It's the fact that he was so two-faced that got me. And apart from anything else, what the lady said to him was not bigoted in the slightest as far as I'm concerned. Mrs Duffy was only saying what a vast number of people in this country would have said if they had got the chance to meet Gordon Brown for a few minutes. It is NOT bigoted to raise concerns about immigration. Basically, though, we all know now that, as far as Gordon Brown is concerned, anyone who raises concerns about immigration is a bigot. Which, of course, is just utter nonsense.

How can we now trust the Labour Party to tackle immigration when we know the real thoughts of their leader on the issue?

As for the statement that he made after he had just gone back to her house to apologise to her...

I think the less said about that the better.

You misunderstood what she was saying - aye right, Gordon! :bitchy:

I am under no illusions, though. I realise that this could have happened to any politician. However, I sincerely hope that this marks the end for Gordon Brown.

It won't really matter up here as Labour could select Spongebob Squarepants, Mr Blobby and Mickey Mouse as their candidates in some seats in Scotland and they would still win by a country mile but I think as far as England goes, unless you are talking about a committed Labour supporter, he just isn't going to get the required support down there from the so called "floating voters".