UKIP party political broadcast

[lyonhibs]

Did anyone just see this?

Dearie, dearie me. What a bunch of delusional fannies. They want to leave the EU for the bits they don't like, but would still magically maintain a free trade agreement with EU countries, without paying into the EU?

How's that going to work?

They apparently - I must have misheard this - aim to cut the public sector by £50 billion in year 1 :confused::bitchy: by getting rid of this most nebulous of sources "Government excess" - no specifics of course.

They want to raise the income tax ceiling to - wait for it - £11,500, and scrap inheritance tax - COMPLETELY. I hope they've got a laboratory that has developed the "money tree" we've all been looking for, because my god they'll need it.

That, and not one UKIP person on the entire broadcast actually seemed capable of pronouncing words correctly lead me to conclude that UKIP are the BNP with a almost entirely transparent veneer of "credibility"

And Nigel Farrage - there's a puss I wouldn't tire of smacking!!!

Give them their dues though, they managed to fit 1 black guy into their "distressed members of the British public pose real-life questions" bit, to show that they are down with multi-cultural Britain, innit??

[Hainan Hibs]

Haven't seen the brodcast however had a read over their manifesto.

Now, I had to read it a few times, but the no tax threshold is raised to £11,500,

and then,

as soon as you earn £11,501 you are bent over and reamed with a single flat rate of 31%:dizzy::dizzy:


Also they would scrap all MSP's, and we would have the privilege of having the Scottish MP's discuss Scottish matters for a grand total of 1 week a month:dizzy::dizzy:.

What a set of bams.

[Beefster]

Did anyone just see this?

Dearie, dearie me. What a bunch of delusional fannies. They want to leave the EU for the bits they don't like, but would still magically maintain a free trade agreement with EU countries, without paying into the EU?

How's that going to work?

They apparently - I must have misheard this - aim to cut the public sector by £50 billion in year 1 :confused::bitchy: by getting rid of this most nebulous of sources "Government excess" - no specifics of course.

They want to raise the income tax ceiling to - wait for it - £11,500, and scrap inheritance tax - COMPLETELY. I hope they've got a laboratory that has developed the "money tree" we've all been looking for, because my god they'll need it.

That, and not one UKIP person on the entire broadcast actually seemed capable of pronouncing words correctly lead me to conclude that UKIP are the BNP with a almost entirely transparent veneer of "credibility"

And Nigel Farrage - there's a puss I wouldn't tire of smacking!!!

Give them their dues though, they managed to fit 1 black guy into their "distressed members of the British public pose real-life questions" bit, to show that they are down with multi-cultural Britain, innit??

I've haven't read the UKIP manifesto but do they have racist policies?

[AndyM_1875]

I've haven't read the UKIP manifesto but do they have racist policies?

Not overtly, certainly they are a bit smarter & aware than the BNP but under the surface they are just as hostile and bigoted. When Robert Kilroy Silk was involved with them he was caught on tape saying how he wouldn't be staying in the party because of 'all the right-wing nutters'.

Basically they are the Daily Mail at prayer.

[lyonhibs]

I've haven't read the UKIP manifesto but do they have racist policies?

I wasn't even meaning on the level of racist policies per se (although there may well be some in there) but more insofar as both parties, and their "pie in the sky" policies, are equally discredited - IMO - as legitimate voting options.

Doubtless others will disagree, and if folk want to vote for UKIP, then be my guest, but I very much doubt that watching that PPB will have convinced any marginal voters in their favour, put it that way

[Danderhall Hibs]

Also they would scrap all MSP's,

I like the sound of this part.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Did anyone just see this?

Dearie, dearie me. What a bunch of delusional fannies. They want to leave the EU for the bits they don't like, but would still magically maintain a free trade agreement with EU countries, without paying into the EU?

How's that going to work?

They apparently - I must have misheard this - aim to cut the public sector by £50 billion in year 1 :confused::bitchy: by getting rid of this most nebulous of sources "Government excess" - no specifics of course.

They want to raise the income tax ceiling to - wait for it - £11,500, and scrap inheritance tax - COMPLETELY. I hope they've got a laboratory that has developed the "money tree" we've all been looking for, because my god they'll need it.

That, and not one UKIP person on the entire broadcast actually seemed capable of pronouncing words correctly lead me to conclude that UKIP are the BNP with a almost entirely transparent veneer of "credibility"

And Nigel Farrage - there's a puss I wouldn't tire of smacking!!!

Give them their dues though, they managed to fit 1 black guy into their "distressed members of the British public pose real-life questions" bit, to show that they are down with multi-cultural Britain, innit??

I think Farage still thinks we've got the good old British empire to rely on for trade!

They are a bunch of delusional idiots, their existence supported by the Daily Heil and Daily Express constantly providing over inflated figures of how much it costs Britain to be in the EU and that all the EU does is make us accept some laws that we don't want. There figures are never accurate, and they never mention the benefits of being in Europe. Scaremongering at its best.

[lyonhibs]

I think Farage still thinks we've got the good old British empire to rely on for trade!

They are a bunch of delusional idiots, their existence supported by the Daily Heil and Daily Express constantly providing over inflated figures of how much it costs Britain to be in the EU and that all the EU does is make us accept some laws that we don't want. There figures are never accurate, and they never mention the benefits of being in Europe. Scaremongering at its best.

:agree: :agree:

The EU was set up with the principal aims of maintaining peace between member countries and fostering trade links between member nations.

Granted, it may have grown slightly beyond its original scope, and become a bit of a bureuacratic monster at times, but if anyone could point me in the direction of a similarly sized international organisation which has so successfully satisfied its founding principals for 50+ years, I'd be delighted to hear of it.

[Phil D. Rolls]

They are mad as a bus load of Yams, shaking hands with Mr Romanov.

[Killiehibbie]

Dearie, dearie me. What a bunch of delusional fannies.

And Nigel Farrage - there's a puss I wouldn't tire of smacking!!!

Change the name for any other political party.
Swap him for just about any other politician.

[New Corrie]

They are mad as a bus load of Yams, shaking hands with Mr Romanov.

Nearly as mad as us daft Brits propping up Portuguese irrigation systems, Bull fighting, Alitalilia, Irish motorways and of course we contribute £60 mil a day and can't even fish our own waters, sorry. who's the mad ones?

[Dashing Bob S]

Possibly the saddest and most irrelevant political party ever invented. One great argument against PR is that would give this motley crew of golf club bores and genuine headcases some sort of representation.

[steakbake]

Anyone remember Jimmy Goldsmith's Referendum Party?

[GhostofBolivar]

Nearly as mad as us daft Brits propping up Portuguese irrigation systems, Bull fighting, Alitalilia, Irish motorways and of course we contribute £60 mil a day and can't even fish our own waters, sorry. who's the mad ones?

Europol and easier extradition protocols; cleaner beaches and rivers; 4 weeks paid holiday a year; a EU-wide ban on the death penalty; an organisation that gives twice as much in aid to developing countries than the USA; the Regional Development Fund - which has given massive handouts to some of the most deprived areas in the UK; the Human Rights Act; 2-year guarantees on household appliances; stricter safety standards on aircraft; cheaper flights; free healthcare for tourists anywhere in the EU.

And without the Bosman ruling, we'd never have signed Franck Sauzee.


Yeah, the EU's ****ing insane.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Nearly as mad as us daft Brits propping up Portuguese irrigation systems, Bull fighting, Alitalilia, Irish motorways and of course we contribute £60 mil a day and can't even fish our own waters, sorry. who's the mad ones?

Does Britain get any money out of the EU, or is it all one way traffic?

[heretoday]

UKIP? It's the PC face of the BNP, no?

[New Corrie]

Does Britain get any money out of the EU, or is it all one way traffic?


You know fine well FR that the EU does better out of us than we do out of them. It's a total joke, and any poor sod that speaks out against it just gets deemed a Daily Mail reading racist.

[marinello59]

You know fine well FR that the EU does better out of us than we do out of them. It's a total joke, and any poor sod that speaks out against it just gets deemed a Daily Mail reading racist.

Only the ones that are Daily Mail reading racists.:agree:

If it is such a bad deal why have successive Governments kept us in the EU? Why would no party with a realistic chance of power suggest leaving the EU? Is it some perverse way of making it harder to run the economy? You know what, this Government business is far to easy. let's set ourselves a real challenge and give shedloads of money away to Europe.

[New Corrie]

Europol and easier extradition protocols; cleaner beaches and rivers; 4 weeks paid holiday a year; a EU-wide ban on the death penalty; an organisation that gives twice as much in aid to developing countries than the USA; the Regional Development Fund - which has given massive handouts to some of the most deprived areas in the UK; the Human Rights Act; 2-year guarantees on household appliances; stricter safety standards on aircraft; cheaper flights; free healthcare for tourists anywhere in the EU.

And without the Bosman ruling, we'd never have signed Franck Sauzee.


Yeah, the EU's ****ing insane.


You think these are good things??? Swell, we have to pay prisoners compensation for slopping out, but hey my fridge has got a two year guarantee!!! The flights are cheap because all these flailing Latin airlines are getting propped up with our money. We are the only dafties that play ball, all the other countries quite rightly stick their fingers up at the left wing lunacy that eminates from Brussels.

[New Corrie]

Only the ones that are Daily Mail reading racists.:agree:

If it is such a bad deal why have successive Governments kept us in the EU? Why would no party with a realistic chance of power suggest leaving the EU? Is it some perverse way of making it harder to run the economy? You know what, this Government business is far to easy. let's set ourselves a real challenge and give shedloads of money away to Europe.


There are plenty Euro Sceptics amongst the mainstream parties. The figures are there for all to see, we give more than we gat back by a considerable margin.

[hibsbollah]

There are plenty Euro Sceptics amongst the mainstream parties. The figures are there for all to see, we give more than we gat back by a considerable margin.

Thats not true, it depends where you live. Objective 1 funded regions (Cornwall, N Ireland, Merseyside) benefit massively from being in the EU. I dont have the figures but I guess the only region that isnt a net recipient of EU funding is the SouthEast of England.

[marinello59]

There are plenty Euro Sceptics amongst the mainstream parties. The figures are there for all to see, we give more than we gat back by a considerable margin.

And we get no benefits at all? Good grief. Thank goodness we have those forward thinking UKIP chaps to lead us out of this nightmare.:agree:

[New Corrie]

And we get no benefits at all? Good grief. Thank goodness we have those forward thinking UKIP chaps to lead us out of this nightmare.:agree:


I am not suggesting that they could lead us out of this nightmare, although it wasn't Euro sceptics that created the Monster.

[PeeJay]

The EU is a wonderful institution IMO, the fact that we've had peace in Europe for so long alone confirms it for me. Some people maybe take that for granted now? BUt it came though hard work and commitment.

We also have freedom of movement, freedom to work anywhere in the EU we like, to live anwhere we like, buy property, set up a business, study anywhere we like - the multicultural benefits are tremendous. On the European mainland we can of course also travel through many countries without having to stop at borders for passport checks, and we have the euro, no need for foreign exchange for tourists & business - tremendous savings involved - well, except the UK of course!

The UK's problem, in general, I would suggest is:

a) The populace at large is not informed and seems little disposed to familiarise itself with the concept, i.e. it mainly gets fed disinformation from the media or nutters like UKIP - and the Tories come to think of it ...
b) More worrying - few, if any, of the UK MPs of all parties and houses, seem to be following a common UK agenda, i.e. with regard to what the EU should be about (from a UK POV), where it is going etc. and as such the UK as an entity always appears - to 'us' Europeans (sic) - to basically be saying no to everything, and can we have our money back. There is little evidence of any positive input, mainly just complaints and opt outs.

The EU's not perfect, of course, but it's a magical idea and it works ...

Facts & Figures locked up in here:
http://ec.europa.eu/budget/library/publications/fin_reports/fin_report_08_en.pdf (http://ec.europa.eu/budget/library/publications/fin_reports/fin_report_08_en.pdf)

[hibsdaft]

You know fine well FR that the EU does better out of us than we do out of them. It's a total joke, and any poor sod that speaks out against it just gets deemed a Daily Mail reading racist.

you're missing the point about the EU if your arguement is based on the figures you quoted. Europe is our biggest market. the daft rules people winge about (standardising things) allow us to sell our goods and services across a market of 500m rather than 60m. hundreds of thousands of us go over there to work on short term contracts or long term. we get huge money for infrastructure in rural areas too. those infrastructure projects you complain about allow us to reach those markets, and build up economies to which we're directly linked and will feed off in the future.

on top of all that, the entity itself is now the biggest economy and market on the planet and has serious bargaining power globally.

personally i think it is anti-worker and too much about advancing big business, but with your politics CG you ought to love it imo

[GhostofBolivar]

You think these are good things??? Swell, we have to pay prisoners compensation for slopping out, but hey my fridge has got a two year guarantee!!! The flights are cheap because all these flailing Latin airlines are getting propped up with our money. We are the only dafties that play ball, all the other countries quite rightly stick their fingers up at the left wing lunacy that eminates from Brussels.

They're unquestionably good things.

And the flights are cheap because an airline granted a licence to operate by one EU member state is permitted to operate in all member states. This increases competition and therefore prices fall.

[hibsbollah]

personally i think it is anti-worker and too much about advancing big business, but with your politics CG you ought to love it imo

It also promotes redistribution of wealth from rich to poor regions, which is probably one of the things that CG objects to.

[New Corrie]

It also promotes redistribution of wealth from rich to poor regions, which is probably one of the things that CG objects to.


Not at all, I think that is a good thing.

[lyonhibs]

The EU is a wonderful institution IMO, the fact that we've had peace in Europe for so long alone confirms it for me. Some people maybe take that for granted now? BUt it came though hard work and committment.

We also have freedom of movement, freedom to work anywhere in the EU we like, to live anwhere we like, buy property, set up a business, study anywhere we like - the multicultural benefits are tremendous. On the European mainland we can of course also travel through many countries without having to stop at borders for passport checks, and we have the euro, no need for foreign exchange for tourists & business - tremendous savings involved - well, except the UK of course!

The UK's problem, in general, I would suggest is:

a) The populace at large is not informed and seems little disposed to familiarise itself with the concept, i.e. it mainly gets fed disinformation from the media or nutters like UKIP - and the Tories come to think of it ...
b) More worrying - few, if any, of the UK MPs of all parties and houses, seem to be following a common UK agenda, i.e. with regard to what the EU should be about (from a UK POV), where it is going etc. and as such the UK as an entity always appears - to 'us' Europeans (sic) - to basically be saying no to everything, and can we have our money back. There is little evidence of any positive input, mainly just complaints and opt outs.

The EU's not perfect, of course, but it's a magical idea and it works ...

Facts & Figures locked up in here:
http://ec.europa.eu/budget/library/publications/fin_reports/fin_report_08_en.pdf (http://ec.europa.eu/budget/library/publications/fin_reports/fin_report_08_en.pdf)

:agree: :agree:

In a nutshell - my and the previous generation have been spoilt regarding this. The idea of a deadly war - fought predominately in France and Belgium - being triggered by a student demonstrator shooting an Archduke in Austria seems absolutely absurd to us now. Far too many of us - IMO - either don't know, or don't want to know, that the main reason that we have lived in harmony - well, relatively speaking - with our European neighbours for 50+ years is down in main to the establishment and maintenance of the EU, which isn't done by fairy dust and magic sparkles, but with a lot of hard work and commitment from a lot of people.

[steakbake]

The EU is a price worth paying to ensure that we use our proximity to each other properly and avoid the mistakes of the past.

I don't necessarily think that "new" states in Europe should necessarily try too hard to join. I think that the EU is well enough established now that associate relationships like those with Iceland, Norway and Switzerland are preferable.

[Sir David Gray]

I will be voting UKIP next week, mainly because of their stance on the EU but also because I agree with a lot of their policies on things like defence, immigration, foreign policy and the armed forces. These are things that are very important to me.

The European Union is a complete farce and we are better off out of it. We cannot make our own laws without getting the approval of Brussels, we cannot decide for ourselves whether or not we should allow certain foreign nationals to come into the country, just because they come from a country that is in the EU and it also costs us billions of pounds each year in membership. For a country that has hundreds of billions of pounds worth of debt and with the politicians currently debating what "waste" to cut, I think it's a no-brainer that the number one priority should be to withdraw immediately from the European Union.

Also in response to lyonhibs' comment about how a free trade agreement is going to work out if we're not part of the EU, it seems to work out OK for the likes of Norway.

If David Cameron was to come out tomorrow and announce that, if he becomes PM next week, he would set up a referendum on the UK's future in the EU and that his Conservative party would actively campaign to get us out, I don't believe that we would be talking about hung parliaments or coalitions. As far as I'm concerned, he would win the election in a landslide.

It's high time that we had a referendum on the EU, the last time that the British people had a say on our position in Europe, we were asked to vote on something that was very different to the situation that we now have today.

The way we're going, before too long we are going to have a United States of Europe, in all but name. If we're not going to withdraw completely (which we won't) then I am 100% opposed to further integration and I am also 100% against adopting the euro.

All this talk as well about UKIP being similar to the BNP is just a complete nonsense. There is absolutely nothing in UKIP's manifesto that could be described as racist or Nazi-like and UKIP has already gone on record, as recently as last year, as saying that they will never do a deal with the BNP.

[Dashing Bob S]

If we weren't in the EU, our economy would have crushed like Iceland's in this recession.

If we were in the Euro, I doubt it would have been hit so hard by it.

Flat Earthers and little Britain types are deluding themselves. The EU is here to stay. It's time to get with the project and kick slavering fools of UKIP and the Daily Mail into touch.

[Beefster]

If we weren't in the EU, our economy would have crushed like Iceland's in this recession.

If we were in the Euro, I doubt it would have been hit so hard by it.

Flat Earthers and little Britain types are deluding themselves. The EU is here to stay. It's time to get with the project and kick slavering fools of UKIP and the Daily Mail into touch.

Based on what? You have read about Greece, right?

I'm not anti-Europe but let's not pretend it's a utopia that will protect us from all ills.

[PeeJay]

Based on what? You have read about Greece, right?

I'm not anti-Europe but let's not pretend it's a utopia that will protect us from all ills.


Don't think any pro-Europeans are pretending it's utopia -we know it has its faults - it's a WIP, but one well worth persevering with, and it has achieved so much for Europe.

Bit unfair to reduce the EU to the mess that Greece is currently in, I feel! The euro will survive the current Greek calamity, and come out of it much stronger I'm sure - the reason being the alternative is simply unacceptable and failure to do so, would practically end the concept of the EU.

[Beefster]

Don't think any pro-Europeans are pretending it's utopia -we know it has its faults - it's a WIP, but one well worth persevering with, and it has achieved so much for Europe.

Bit unfair to reduce the EU to the mess that Greece is currently in, I feel! The euro will survive the current Greek calamity, and come out of it much stronger I'm sure - the reason being the alternative is simply unacceptable and failure to do so, would practically end the concept of the EU.

I'm arguing against the point that the UK would have been, essentially, bankrupt without the EU or that the recession wouldn't have been as hard if we were in the Euro.

There was a report by some think tank a few months back (I forget who but they were one of the ones who work with the govt) who said that, had we been in the Euro, our unemployment would have been a million higher and the recession longer.

I can try and find it later if anyone is interested.

[GlesgaeHibby]

I will be voting UKIP next week, mainly because of their stance on the EU but also because I agree with a lot of their policies on things like defence, immigration, foreign policy and the armed forces. These are things that are very important to me.

The European Union is a complete farce and we are better off out of it. We cannot make our own laws without getting the approval of Brussels, we cannot decide for ourselves whether or not we should allow certain foreign nationals to come into the country, just because they come from a country that is in the EU and it also costs us billions of pounds each year in membership. For a country that has hundreds of billions of pounds worth of debt and with the politicians currently debating what "waste" to cut, I think it's a no-brainer that the number one priority should be to withdraw immediately from the European Union.

Also in response to lyonhibs' comment about how a free trade agreement is going to work out if we're not part of the EU, it seems to work out OK for the likes of Norway.

If David Cameron was to come out tomorrow and announce that, if he becomes PM next week, he would set up a referendum on the UK's future in the EU and that his Conservative party would actively campaign to get us out, I don't believe that we would be talking about hung parliaments or coalitions. As far as I'm concerned, he would win the election in a landslide.

It's high time that we had a referendum on the EU, the last time that the British people had a say on our position in Europe, we were asked to vote on something that was very different to the situation that we now have today.

The way we're going, before too long we are going to have a United States of Europe, in all but name. If we're not going to withdraw completely (which we won't) then I am 100% opposed to further integration and I am also 100% against adopting the euro.

All this talk as well about UKIP being similar to the BNP is just a complete nonsense. There is absolutely nothing in UKIP's manifesto that could be described as racist or Nazi-like and UKIP has already gone on record, as recently as last year, as saying that they will never do a deal with the BNP.

I don't even know where to start with this. You clearly haven't read through the thread in detail, the benefits of the EU are clear for all to see: increased workers rights, regional development fund to help deprived areas, increased consumer protection, increased safety regulations for aeroplanes, EU wide ban on death penalty, cleaner beaches and rivers, sustained peace in Europe.

And of course the big one, which you dispute without any facts is of course the EU single market (EU free trade). The single market has so many benefits that I don't have time to list them all. Here's a few for you:


Businesses can flourish. With a target market of 500 Million instead of say 60 Million in the UK businesses can achieve economies of scale saving them money.
Larger market for goods means that consumers have more and more choice. Increased competition in a larger market results in lower prices for consumers.
In 2006 EU GDP was 2.2% higher than it would have been without the single market.
Over period 1992-2006 EU single market has helped create an extra 2.75 million jobs across Europe.


I don't suppose you've had a good read at UKIPs manifesto? They've got some great policies right enough, first £11,500 tax free then taxed at 31% for anything earned above that :faf: You can't honestly support that? It will hit those on modest to middle incomes very hard.

Next you state that the Tories would experience a landslide win next week if they came out and stated they would withdraw from Europe. That is absolute rubbish as there are many in this country that believe the EU is worthwhile (thankfully) and there will be some conservative voters included in that. The small band of UKIP supporters deflecting to the Tories wouldn't be enough to get them a landslide victory. There would be just as many, if not more, who withdrew their support for the tories over this issue.

There is a reason the 3 main parties support remaining part of the EU, and that is the benefits outweigh the negatives.

[heretoday]

If we weren't in the EU, our economy would have crushed like Iceland's in this recession.

If we were in the Euro, I doubt it would have been hit so hard by it.

Flat Earthers and little Britain types are deluding themselves. The EU is here to stay. It's time to get with the project and kick slavering fools of UKIP and the Daily Mail into touch.

Hear! Hear! Stand for PM for God's sake. It's not too late!

[Leicester Fan]

I don't even know where to start with this. You clearly haven't read through the thread in detail, the benefits of the EU are clear for all to see: increased workers rights, regional development fund to help deprived areas, increased consumer protection, increased safety regulations for aeroplanes, EU wide ban on death penalty, cleaner beaches and rivers, sustained peace in Europe.



This regional funding is coming out of our money. All these laws and regulations could quite easily been passed by our parliament so why is the EU essential to achieving these things?

As for peace in Europe the only war we've had in Europe in my memory was in in the former Yugoslavia where nations were forced into a confederation against their wills. Make of that what you will.

[ScottB]

So this party is against another party making decisions for us, yet if they won the election they'd scrap our parliament without consulting us??


It's amazing how many parties talk about issues that are devolved like they can do anything about it from Westminster, it's misleading.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Another point to ponder for those thinking of voting UKIP.

This party:



denies climate change
believes in homeopathy
is completely against stem cell research
believes the met office funding should be linked to the accuracy of their forecast (crazy given that the met office forecasts are amongst the most accurate in the world

Luckily UKIP won't get into power as they would be disastrous for science.

[Leicester Fan]

Another point to ponder for those thinking of voting UKIP.

This party:



denies climate change- So do a lot of people
believes in homeopathy-I'll give you that one
is completely against stem cell research-That's a moral question, it's debatable
believes the met office funding should be linked to the accuracy of their forecast (crazy given that the met office forecasts are amongst the most accurate in the world-Then they should have no problem with their funding

Luckily UKIP won't get into power -So what's the problem?
.

[Beefster]

Another point to ponder for those thinking of voting UKIP.

This party:



denies climate change
believes in homeopathy
is completely against stem cell research
believes the met office funding should be linked to the accuracy of their forecast (crazy given that the met office forecasts are amongst the most accurate in the world

Luckily UKIP won't get into power as they would be disastrous for science.

No, they don't. They question how 'man-made' the ongoing change is.

There's a difference.

[GlesgaeHibby]

No, they don't. They question how 'man-made' the ongoing change is.

There's a difference.

Sorry I should have said anthropogenic climate change in my post, although when climate change is mentioned in the press that is generally what is implied.

Questioning how man made the change is just shows that their scientific policy has absolutely no credentials, as the vast majority of scientists accept man made climate change based on the evidence presented, but this is another debate in itself so I'll leave it there.

[Sir David Gray]

I don't even know where to start with this. You clearly haven't read through the thread in detail, the benefits of the EU are clear for all to see: increased workers rights, regional development fund to help deprived areas, increased consumer protection, increased safety regulations for aeroplanes, EU wide ban on death penalty, cleaner beaches and rivers, sustained peace in Europe.

And of course the big one, which you dispute without any facts is of course the EU single market (EU free trade). The single market has so many benefits that I don't have time to list them all. Here's a few for you:


Businesses can flourish. With a target market of 500 Million instead of say 60 Million in the UK businesses can achieve economies of scale saving them money.
Larger market for goods means that consumers have more and more choice. Increased competition in a larger market results in lower prices for consumers.
In 2006 EU GDP was 2.2% higher than it would have been without the single market.
Over period 1992-2006 EU single market has helped create an extra 2.75 million jobs across Europe.


I don't suppose you've had a good read at UKIPs manifesto? They've got some great policies right enough, first £11,500 tax free then taxed at 31% for anything earned above that :faf: You can't honestly support that? It will hit those on modest to middle incomes very hard.

Next you state that the Tories would experience a landslide win next week if they came out and stated they would withdraw from Europe. That is absolute rubbish as there are many in this country that believe the EU is worthwhile (thankfully) and there will be some conservative voters included in that. The small band of UKIP supporters deflecting to the Tories wouldn't be enough to get them a landslide victory. There would be just as many, if not more, who withdrew their support for the tories over this issue.

There is a reason the 3 main parties support remaining part of the EU, and that is the benefits outweigh the negatives.

I have had a look at their manifesto and what I will say is, I don't think there's anyone who is voting today who will agree with absolutely everything that their chosen party stands for. You just have to choose one that is closest to reflecting your views. As I said in my previous post, when it comes to things like foreign policy, immigration, defence and the Armed Forces, I think UKIP's policies on these issues are pretty much spot on.

Obviously I have nothing to back up my statement about the Tories winning in a landslide if they were to call for Britain to withdraw from the EU but I am going on the fact that it's fairly widely accepted that, out of all the EU member states, the UK is one of the most eurosceptic.


Another point to ponder for those thinking of voting UKIP.

This party:



denies climate change
believes in homeopathy
is completely against stem cell research
believes the met office funding should be linked to the accuracy of their forecast (crazy given that the met office forecasts are amongst the most accurate in the world

Luckily UKIP won't get into power as they would be disastrous for science.

*As Beefster has already pointed out, they challenge the view that climate change is predominantly man-made, not that climate change is actually occurring. I would tend to go along with that and there a number of scientists who would also agree.
*I think they are wrong on this issue.
*I think they are correct to be against embryonic stem cell research. I think it's morally wrong to create a potential human life, just to destroy it soon after.
*Again I think they are correct. I can't agree/disagree with your point about the accuracy of the Met Office forecasts as I have never seen that reported before. All I will say is, if they are amongst the most accurate in the world, it doesn't say very much for the forecasters in other nations.

[RickyS]

[QUOTE=FalkirkHibee;2456539]I have had a look at their manifesto and what I will say is, I don't think there's anyone who is voting today who will agree with absolutely everything that their chosen party stands for. You just have to choose one that is closest to reflecting your views. As I said in my previous post, when it comes to things like foreign policy, immigration, defence and the Armed Forces, I think UKIP's policies on these issues are pretty much spot on.

reading a lot of these posts, its fair to say a lot of folk know more than me, and Like FalkirkHibee, these are the biggest concerns for me. so who does someone like me vote for?

[Sir David Gray]

reading a lot of these posts, its fair to say a lot of folk know more than me, and Like FalkirkHibee, these are the biggest concerns for me. so who does someone like me vote for?

It's a wee bit late (although maybe not now that we have a hung parliament as we might have another election in a couple of months) but what I will say first and foremost is that you should vote for whatever party you want and it's not for me, or anyone else, to tell you which way you should vote.

However, you say that some of your biggest concerns are our foreign policy, immigration, defence and the Armed Forces. You don't say what your views are on each subject and the 'perfect' party for you could change quite significantly depending on what your stance is;

If you want strict restrictions on immigration without carrying out racist policies, are quite happy being close to the USA, think that we should leave the EU but still maintain close ties with European nations and keep our nuclear deterrent then UKIP is probably for you.

If, however, you think we should have more rights for asylum seekers, wish to have amnesties for illegal immigrants, want the nuclear deterrent scrapped and view the USA with scepticism then you are probably more suited to a socialist party such as the SSP.

[steakbake]

What struck me about some of the UKIP candidates I saw at their counts on TV last night is how freakin' odd many of them were. One or two of the speeches were plain bizarre.

Still, if it wasn't for UKIP, the Tories would have probably won a large majority by hoovering up all those right-wing votes, so at least we can be glad for that.

[Sir David Gray]

What struck me about some of the UKIP candidates I saw at their counts on TV last night is how freakin' odd many of them were. One or two of the speeches were plain bizarre.

Still, if it wasn't for UKIP, the Tories would have probably won a large majority by hoovering up all those right-wing votes, so at least we can be glad for that.

:agree: I actually read that today that UKIP prevented the Conservatives from winning in 10 seats. It still wouldn't have given them an overall majority but UKIP did extremely well at the polls and only the system prevented them from having some significant success.

I've said this on another thread already but it's ridiculously unfair that you can speak for almost 1 million people (and be the fourth largest party by number of votes won) and yet fail to win any seats.

In response to your first paragraph, that is a great source of regret to me, especially in terms of their leadership and the negative campaign that they launched.

In my opinion, UKIP has some very good policies but instead of highlighting them, they preferred to be negative about the three main parties and when their leader was questioned on some of their policies, he refused to speak about them.

I believe they would benefit greatly from being run by someone who was actually competent.

[lyonhibs]

:agree: I actually read that today that UKIP prevented the Conservatives from winning in 10 seats. It still wouldn't have given them an overall majority but UKIP did extremely well at the polls and only the system prevented them from having some significant success.

I've said this on another thread already but it's ridiculously unfair that you can speak for almost 1 million people (and be the fourth largest party by number of votes won) and yet fail to win any seats.

In response to your first paragraph, that is a great source of regret to me, especially in terms of their leadership and the negative campaign that they launched.

In my opinion, UKIP has some very good policies but instead of highlighting them, they preferred to be negative about the three main parties and when their leader was questioned on some of their policies, he refused to speak about them.

I believe they would benefit greatly from being run by someone who was actually competent.

You're not saying Lord Pearson of Rannoch/Nigel Farrage (I always think of these 2 like the headmaster and deputy head at my school - one had the title, the other actually ran the show) are a couple of absolute incompetents who do nothing but conform right to the stereotype that their opponents expect of them, and probably do more harm to UKIP's already fairly objectionable/looney policies (IMO of course) than they do good??? :confused:



:greengrin





As an aside, this may be inverted snobbery at work, but someone with the title "Lord Pearson of Rannoch" telling us he'll work for the "ordinary man" in the UK???

:faf:

[Sir David Gray]

[/B]

You're not saying Lord Pearson of Rannoch/Nigel Farrage (I always think of these 2 like the headmaster and deputy head at my school - one had the title, the other actually ran the show) are a couple of absolute incompetents who do nothing but conform right to the stereotype that their opponents expect of them, and probably do more harm to UKIP's already fairly objectionable/looney policies (IMO of course) than they do good??? :confused:



:greengrin





As an aside, this may be inverted snobbery at work, but someone with the title "Lord Pearson of Rannoch" telling us he'll work for the "ordinary man" in the UK???

:faf:

Yes, I cannot stand Lord Pearson and I have no idea why he was made their leader. The man clearly hasn't the first idea about how to run a political party and any time I see him on TV, I just cringe.

I'm not all that fond of Nigel Farage either but he was a political genius in comparison to his successor.