When did it all go wrong?

[flash]

At what point did respect for other people collapse to such a low that it is now socially acceptable to;

shout and swear on your phone
play music without headphones
not give up your seat to the elderly;

i witness these things on a daily basis and the only conclusion i can make is that we have bred a generation of morally bankrupt, socially ******ed little gits.

God knows what the country will be like in 2 or 3 generations time.

[MyJo]

1992

[Beefster]

At what point did respect for other people collapse to such a low that it is now socially acceptable to;

shout and swear on your phone
play music without headphones
not give up your seat to the elderly;

i witness these things on a daily basis and the only conclusion i can make is that we have bred a generation of morally bankrupt, socially ******ed little gits.

God knows what the country will be like in 2 or 3 generations time.

I remember folk saying the same type of thing in the 80's and 90's and I'd bet it was said in the 60's and 70's.

[flash]

Ah well that's alright then.

[dawn]

Cos there's too much pussy footing around them at a young age in the home and within the childcare profession.
Its one thing to treat a child abusively but they need to know and be put in their place.

[s.a.m]

While I agree with you that a lot of people are shockingly disrespectful, at 42 I'm too young to remember the 'golden days' when everyone behaved in the manner they should.
As far as portable noise-making devices go, these are relatively new, and I suppose you could argue that we haven't developed an ettiquette for their use yet (if you were being kind). I can remember when I was young, hearing older people complaining about rudeness and bad manners in my generation. My headmaster used to start each assembly with a roll of shame, with complaints from local residents and shop-keepers about the same thing (and I would say that mine was a pretty well-behaved and tame school).
I would also say that the worst culprits for inappropriate seat-hogging on buses are middle-aged women (speaking as a nearly middle aged woman myself), sitting on their fat backsides with smug, self-righteous expressions on their faces.
Having said all that, I do agree with you - though I'm wondering if I'm noticing it because I'm getting older, rather than because of a shocking decliine in standards. One area where things seem different, is perhaps an increase in public displays of anger - and outright tantrums from people who feel hard done by. Whether it's 'road rage', or people screamiung that they have rights in shops and offices, it seems it's now considered OK to be emotionally incontinent. And it's absolutely not OK.
:grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

[Beefster]

Cos there's too much pussy footing around them at a young age in the home and within the childcare profession.
Its one thing to treat a child abusively but they need to know and be put in their place.

How would you do that?

[Jack]

I’m only 52 and if I say so myself don’t look that bad for my age :agree:. A couple of months ago a girl got up and offered me her seat!

She was German. I don’t think it would have happened had she not been there.

I was on my way to my eldest sons 18th birthday. A double whammy!!

Have things got worse or is it we just like to complain about them more, I don’t know. :dunno:

[Phil D. Rolls]

While I agree with you that a lot of people are shockingly disrespectful, at 42 I'm too young to remember the 'golden days' when everyone behaved in the manner they should.
As far as portable noise-making devices go, these are relatively new, and I suppose you could argue that we haven't developed an ettiquette for their use yet (if you were being kind). I can remember when I was young, hearing older people complaining about rudeness and bad manners in my generation. My headmaster used to start each assembly with a roll of shame, with complaints from local residents and shop-keepers about the same thing (and I would say that mine was a pretty well-behaved and tame school).
I would also say that the worst culprits for inappropriate seat-hogging on buses are middle-aged women (speaking as a nearly middle aged woman myself), sitting on their fat backsides with smug, self-righteous expressions on their faces.
Having said all that, I do agree with you - though I'm wondering if I'm noticing it because I'm getting older, rather than because of a shocking decliine in standards. One area where things seem different, is perhaps an increase in public displays of anger - and outright tantrums from people who feel hard done by. Whether it's 'road rage', or people screamiung that they have rights in shops and offices, it seems it's now considered OK to be emotionally incontinent. And it's absolutely not OK.
:grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

I used to have a book of letters to the Times (I know, I know). Anyway, one I'll always remember is some buffer from the Home Counties writing in to complain about transistor radios on trains. This was in the 50s.

I don't think younger people are any different from what they used to be. I think older people are less secure about their position in society. Coupled with the fact it is now illegal to get old, and you have a situation where the people who should be setting an example, are behaving like children themselves.

There is no generation gap any more. (Or is that what people in their 40s like to think). See you later, I'm off to the record shop to buy Plan B's new LP. It's kicking man!

[Scouse Hibee]

At what point did respect for other people collapse to such a low that it is now socially acceptable to;

shout and swear on your phone
play music without headphones
not give up your seat to the elderly;

i witness these things on a daily basis and the only conclusion i can make is that we have bred a generation of morally bankrupt, socially ******ed little gits.

God knows what the country will be like in 2 or 3 generations time.

Unfortunately we're now dealing with second and third generations of gits who have been brought up by people with no parenting skills whatsoever. It's just gonna get worse as more and more of these poor unsuspecting children are born to a society where they're given no guidance moral or otherwise by their parents who have themselves been dragged up with little or no parental guidance to speak of.

[dawn]

How would you do that?

Thats the hard part, I find it a very interesting but vast topic.


Children grow into young adults very quickly but they seem to stay at this stage until about they're about 30yrs old!
So I say, bring back (a non war based) national service for all 16-25yrs old. They could clean parks, fix roads, look after the elderly etc. :greengrin

[Hermit Crab]

Thats the hard part, I find it a very interesting but vast topic.


Children grow into young adults very quickly but they seem to stay at this stage until about they're about 30yrs old!
So I say, bring back (a non war based) national service for all 16-25yrs old. They could clean parks, fix roads, look after the elderly etc. :greengrin


Is that not like community service that operates just now? Doing things like road sweeping and cleaning up spray paint and things

[davym7062]

At what point did respect for other people collapse to such a low that it is now socially acceptable to;shout and swear on your phone
play music without headphones
not give up your seat to the elderly;

i witness these things on a daily basis and the only conclusion i can make is that we have bred a generation of morally bankrupt, socially ******ed little gits.

God knows what the country will be like in 2 or 3 generations time.

when they banned the belt in schools

[Jack]

Unfortunately we're now dealing with second and third generations of gits who have been brought up by people with no parenting skills whatsoever. It's just gonna get worse as more and more of these poor unsuspecting children are born to a society where they're given no guidance moral or otherwise by their parents who have themselves been dragged up with little or no parental guidance to speak of.

Ah, what's becoming known as feral families!

[Beefster]

I used to have a book of letters to the Times (I know, I know). Anyway, one I'll always remember is some buffer from the Home Counties writing in to complain about transistor radios on trains. This was in the 50s.

I don't think younger people are any different from what they used to be. I think older people are less secure about their position in society. Coupled with the fact it is now illegal to get old, and you have a situation where the people who should be setting an example, are behaving like children themselves.

There is no generation gap any more. (Or is that what people in their 40s like to think). See you later, I'm off to the record shop to buy Plan B's new LP. It's kicking man!

That's the point I was trying to make. In general, kids haven't changed that much. The things that were being moaned about by middle-aged folk in 1967 are still being moaned about by middle-aged folk in 2010.

[dawn]

Is that not like community service that operates just now? Doing things like road sweeping and cleaning up spray paint and things

Yep, but I would like to see hard labour for people with a violent criminal mentality! And jails should go back to basics, none of this phone and telly crap!

If my kid painted where they shouldn't, I'd make them believe I was about to paint their their most precious item, that's when they'll engage with ones point! And I think this is when the pussy footing around comes in.

Sadly many parents are too busy working to understand the impost thing about children, they need parenting, not the large house, telly in every room, car, labelled clothing, dish washer, mobile phones contracts for all, etc etc.

On the whole though, I actually find as many older people to be just as selfish and rude.

[Hermit Crab]

Yep, but I would like to see hard labour for people with a violent criminal mentality! And jails should go back to basics, none of this phone and telly crap!

If my kid painted where they shouldn't, I'd make them believe I was about to paint their their most precious item, that's when they'll engage with ones point! And I think this is when the pussy footing around comes in.

Sadly many parents are too busy working to understand the impost thing about children, they need parenting, not the large house, telly in every room, car, labelled clothing, dish washer, mobile phones contracts for all, etc etc.

On the whole though, I actually find as many older people to be just as selfish and rude.


I used to get smacked when i was younger i used to get the dogs lead or the slipper or bare hands and i feared everyone of them and it didnt do me any harm,infact ot made respect my parents and other adults like teachers and NO meant NO. Nowadays no means yes to some kids as the parents arent tough enough. IMO its the easiest way to issue discipline because who wants smacked all the time?? Nobody.

Pc brigade put paid to that though didnt they.:confused:

[Scouse Hibee]

I used to get smacked when i was younger i used to get the dogs lead or the slipper or bare hands and i feared everyone of them and it didnt do me any harm,infact ot made respect my parents and other adults like teachers and NO meant NO. Nowadays no means yes to some kids as the parents arent tough enough. IMO its the easiest way to issue discipline because who wants smacked all the time?? Nobody.

Pc brigade put paid to that though didnt they.:confused:

Easiest way for who? You can teach your child discipline,morals,respect, and so much more without having to resort to smacking them. Parenting isn't easy and it takes a lot of your time and dedication to get the right results which are so rewarding. The problem with smacking is some halfwits these days just think that's the answer without trying to teach their children the right ways to behave.
Not referring that comment to you by the way.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Yep, but I would like to see hard labour for people with a violent criminal mentality! And jails should go back to basics, none of this phone and telly crap!

If my kid painted where they shouldn't, I'd make them believe I was about to paint their their most precious item, that's when they'll engage with ones point! And I think this is when the pussy footing around comes in.

Sadly many parents are too busy working to understand the impost thing about children, they need parenting, not the large house, telly in every room, car, labelled clothing, dish washer, mobile phones contracts for all, etc etc.

On the whole though, I actually find as many older people to be just as selfish and rude.

This is the elephant in the room, whenever children's behaviour is discussed. :agree:

I know people have their reasons, but the bottom line is kids have a lot less direct contact with their parents than they used to - on the whole.


I used to get smacked when i was younger i used to get the dogs lead or the slipper or bare hands and i feared everyone of them and it didnt do me any harm,infact ot made respect my parents and other adults like teachers and NO meant NO. Nowadays no means yes to some kids as the parents arent tough enough. IMO its the easiest way to issue discipline because who wants smacked all the time?? Nobody.

Pc brigade put paid to that though didnt they.:confused:

It sounds pretty brutal to me. I was hit as well, and at times it wasn't done properly. All it did was taught me that violence was a means to an end, and that if you could take the pain it didn't matter if you got caught.

Maybe I wasn't hit the right way?

I had a happy childhood by the way, but I decided that leathering kids brutalises everyone, and makes parenting very difficult. Times change, my "beatings" weren't that severe that I was physically hurt, but I can't say they didn't affect me psychologically.


Easiest way for who? You can teach your child discipline,morals,respect, and so much more without having to resort to smacking them. Parenting isn't easy and it takes a lot of your time and dedication to get the right results which are so rewarding. The problem with smacking is some halfwits these days just think that's the answer without trying to teach their children the right ways to behave.
Not referring that comment to you by the way.

I agree, some people took the right to chastise children to mean that they had the power to abuse them and batter them way beyond what was necessary.

[Rory89]

At what point did respect for other people collapse to such a low that it is now socially acceptable to;

shout and swear on your phone
play music without headphones
not give up your seat to the elderly;

i witness these things on a daily basis and the only conclusion i can make is that we have bred a generation of morally bankrupt, socially ******ed little gits.

God knows what the country will be like in 2 or 3 generations time.

Did somebody not give up their seat for you on the bus before you wrote that aye? :greengrin

It's a mixed bag with younger people, since I've been at uni I can actually say that every person I've met in the uni and the halls has had very good manners.

[Hermit Crab]

Did somebody not give up their seat for you on the bus before you wrote that aye? :greengrin

It's a mixed bag with younger people, since I've been at uni I can actually say that every person I've met in the uni and the halls has had very good manners.


Is that anything to do with them having had their erses wiped for them by there parents for years and snobbish upbringing. :wink::offski:

[Rory89]

Is that anything to do with them having had their erses wiped for them by there parents for years and snobbish upbringing. :wink::offski:

Nah I'm at Caley, we're the boil on the arse of Glasgow's university culture.

[steakbake]

Is that anything to do with them having had their erses wiped for them by there parents for years and snobbish upbringing. :wink::offski:

That's a bit of a leap. Well behaved folks with good manners, who seem to know how to conduct themselves in public is nothing to do with being a snob or having your "erse wiped" by parents.

Behaving like a reasonable human being in public has nothing to do with class in that respect.

[steakbake]

Nah I'm at Caley, we're the boil on the arse of Glasgow's university culture.

You're still at Uni though. Something which, until very recently and arguably still today, is only accessible for certain people in society.

[Phil D. Rolls]

You're still at Uni though. Something which, until very recently and arguably still today, is only accessible for certain people in society.

University - that were bloody luxury!

[Rory89]

You're still at Uni though. Something which, until very recently and arguably still today, is only accessible for certain people in society.

It really isn't today, I know people from all kinds of backgrounds who go to uni. Of course it's a debate for another day about how many universities there are, but there are so many now that anyone who is semi-decent at school can get on a course somewhere. I'm not from a well-off background, and most people I know at Caley aren't either.

[Removed]

It really isn't today, I know people from all kinds of backgrounds who go to uni. Of course it's a debate for another day about how many universities there are, but there are so many now that anyone who is semi-decent at school can get on a course somewhere. I'm not from a well-off background, and most people I know at Caley aren't either.

True but that's because it's been devalued by all the colleges and polys becoming universities and all the diddy subjects folk do to avoid getting a real job or a real degree.

[hibbytam]

True but that's because it's been devalued by all the colleges and polys becoming universities and all the diddy subjects folk do to avoid getting a real job or a real degree.

Just out of interest, what is a 'diddy' subject? and what would you consider to be a 'real' degree?

[Speedy]

Thats the hard part, I find it a very interesting but vast topic.


Children grow into young adults very quickly but they seem to stay at this stage until about they're about 30yrs old!
So I say, bring back (a non war based) national service for all 16-25yrs old. They could clean parks, fix roads, look after the elderly etc. :greengrin

What would that achieve? I'm genuinely interested to know.

What impact would it have on university education?

What impact would it have on businesses(both those started by young people and those that rely on students e.g. supermarkets)? The previous question will also impact this.

[steakbake]

True but that's because it's been devalued by all the colleges and polys becoming universities and all the diddy subjects folk do to avoid getting a real job or a real degree.

Or perhaps more accurately, successive governments championing the merits of a University education, all the while using HE as a way of keeping young folks out of the job centres for 3 years at least.


Anyway, this has wandered well off topic. I think it "decline" is an illusion created by different generations' codes of behaviour being, well, different from each other. What was acceptable 10 years ago, might not be acceptable now or vice versa.

Problem is, we don't live in a society since thatcher declared it dead, while holding it's still-beating heart in her cold, cold hands some time in the 80s. Since then, we're all "individuals". "I" am at the centre of "my" universe and everyone else is just an incidental bit of the background scenery, unless they get in "my" way to doing what "I" "want" "to" "do".... and then they become a threat and a menace to "my" wellbeing.

Personally, I think that Individualism (with a capital I) has created a lot of problems in a society where we've no choice but to live together and endure all that brings. Collective and normative values are the only ways to peacefully coexist.

Some wee gob****** on the back of the bus might contend that it's his right to play rubbish plastic highpitched music at a high volume just as much as it is the right of some handsome young wit (such as myself) to endure his bus journey in relative peace. If the gob****** is spoken to in a certain way, he might feel his individual rights have been violated, because really, he doesn't give a fk about the handsome young wit and even less the bus driver who has to put up with this sort of malarky every day. And why indeed should our chavvy friend consider anyone else? He doesn't know me... I mean "him" [the wit].... and there is no consequence to the gob****** if others don't enjoy listening to chipmunk music as much as he does. The bus driver is only a bus driver and if he doesn't like pish music being played by a paying customer, he can go do a flying one.

No doubt if push ever did come to shove and the cops got involved and (in the very unlikely event) the chav was arrested, the copper taking him home could fully expect a blast from whoever it is who has "responsibility" for him, for nicking his/her wee ratboy because wee Jimmy has never caused anyone no bother and anyway, its assault if a copper tries to put handcuffs on you and he's not wearing his policeman's hat... and so it goes on... in many communities... in a tedious cycle of people being tolerated for being nothing short of permanent ********s and such folk thinking they have some god given right to walk around and be w******* to absolute strangers.

... or so it might appear to me.

[heretoday]

This is an old argument and the answer to it is an old one too.

There is no point to National Service or any kind of organised youth improvement campaign of that type.

When young folk are just going to go back to the same conditions they left in the first place it's pointless.

What's required is massive investment in decent education, decent housing and decent health services.

I'll leave you to guess whether any of our dynamic Prime Ministerial candidates is likely to bring this about.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Just out of interest, what is a 'diddy' subject? and what would you consider to be a 'real' degree?

Nursing is a real job, but a diddy degree (IMHO).

[Speedy]

Nursing is a real job, but a diddy degree (IMHO).

Is a nursing degree not basically an apprenticeship though?

[Removed]

Just out of interest, what is a 'diddy' subject? and what would you consider to be a 'real' degree?

Quick look at Strathclyde Uni courses I'd say diddy degrees are things like

Hospitality & Tourism Management
Human Resource Management
International Business
Journalism & Creative Writing
Sport & Physical Activity

Plus there are well documented stories about degrees in
David Beckham Studies
Parapsychology
Surfing
Golf Management
Outdoor Adventure with Philosophy
Equestrian Psychology
Aromatherapy

Real degrees would generally be accepted as things like medicine, law, engineering, business subjects that are required for post grad qualifications e.g. economics, accountancy, maths


Or perhaps more accurately, successive governments championing the merits of a University education, all the while using HE as a way of keeping young folks out of the job centres for 3 years at least.

:agree:

And just reading the rest of Steakbakes post I do agree that manners have slipped because of the "me" culture and my right to do what I want when I want and screw everyone else.

I was taught by my mum to hold the door open for ladies, give an elder my seat on the bus, don't but in on someone else's conversation, put litter in the bin etc but if todays teens don't even understand these basics then we get the type of antisocial behaviour we regularly see nowadays.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Is a nursing degree not basically an apprenticeship though?

You are assessed at degree level, but there is a large element of training at placements.

I just think it's a bit diddy because the entry requirements are really low.

[Sylar]

You are assessed at degree level, but there is a large element of training at placements.

I just think it's a bit diddy because the entry requirements are really low.

The cross-discipline approach of faculties these days means that entry requirements matter for hee-haw really.

I entered Uni to do an UG degree in Geography/Town and Regional Planning - I had to take a 3rd module (to fill credits) so took Environmental Science - I ended up taking modules in pure mathematics/physics/chemistry, despite no real previous experience in either of the above (granted, I'd done them all at higher, but nothing beyond). I ended up going on to do a Masters in Engineering, though I doubt I would have had the entry requirements to have gone straight into a degree in Physics, Maths OR Engineering, yet because I took it as a module filler, I had the option to jump into it!

I know someone who applied to do English literature at Dundee, with the full intention of doing psychology - they took psychology as their second module and took it all the way through to Masters level - they definitely didn't have the marks from high school to get into psychology, but ended up working it to get a degree.

[Beefster]

I used to get smacked when i was younger i used to get the dogs lead or the slipper or bare hands and i feared everyone of them and it didnt do me any harm,infact ot made respect my parents and other adults like teachers and NO meant NO. Nowadays no means yes to some kids as the parents arent tough enough. IMO its the easiest way to issue discipline because who wants smacked all the time?? Nobody.

Pc brigade put paid to that though didnt they.:confused:

I wasn't battered as a kid and it didn't do me any harm. I'm sure the 'PC Brigade' will gladly take any credit for making beating kids socially unacceptable though.

I'm could be wrong but I think there have been studies that show that kids who are subjected to violence from parents are more likely to be violent as adults themselves.

[Danderhall Hibs]

You are assessed at degree level, but there is a large element of training at placements.

I just think it's a bit diddy because the entry requirements are really low.

:agree: My wife done the Nursing course a few years ago - I couldn't believe that you could pass an exam or essay with 40% - by getting less than half right you're considered competent!

[Removed]

I wasn't battered as a kid and it didn't do me any harm. I'm sure the 'PC Brigade' will gladly take any credit for making beating kids socially unacceptable though.

I'm could be wrong but I think there have been studies that show that kids who are subjected to violence from parents are more likely to be violent as adults themselves.

He said smacked not battered.

There is a difference between violence and discipline.

If you want to see lack of discipline come Behind the Goals on a Saturday :bitchy: Brats as a result of poor parenting responsibility :grr:

[Beefster]

He said smacked not battered.

There is a difference between violence and discipline.

If you want to see lack of discipline come Behind the Goals on a Saturday :bitchy: Brats as a result of poor parenting responsibility :grr:

Aye but it's subjective. Smacking a kid with dog leads and slippers is a battering to me.

I sit up the stairs in the Big Boys Bar! I'll get enough of the unruly bar when my boy is old enough to start coming every week.

[Removed]

Aye but it's subjective. Smacking a kid with dog leads and slippers is a battering to me.

I sit up the stairs in the Big Boys Bar! I'll get enough of the unruly bar when my boy is old enough to start coming every week.

Will give you dogs lead :agree:

Slippers :slipper: let's not go there :greengrin

[ArabHibee]

Nursing is a real job, but a diddy degree (IMHO).

Depends what University you are doing your 'diddy' degree at.

[Phil D. Rolls]

:agree: My wife done the Nursing course a few years ago - I couldn't believe that you could pass an exam or essay with 40% - by getting less than half right you're considered competent!

I'm not being funny, one of our assessments was on drug calculations. Typical questions were - what is 10% of 100. It was considered a tough challenge for some, so it was done as a multiple choice exam.

Fair's fair, it's a way of weeding out the dummies early on. However, I think they could set the bar higher.

Same with standards of English. There are nurses out there who can barely talk in sentences, and who can't spell for toffi. (See what I did there).

[J-C]

I'm not being funny, one of our assessments was on drug calculations. Typical questions were - what is 10% of 100. It was considered a tough challenge for some, so it was done as a multiple choice exam.

Fair's fair, it's a way of weeding out the dummies early on. However, I think they could set the bar higher.

Same with standards of English. There are nurses out there who can barely talk in sentences, and who can't spell for toffi. (See what I did there).


What is the answer then ?:greengrin

[MSK]

I'm not being funny, one of our assessments was on drug calculations. Typical questions were - what is 10% of 100. It was considered a tough challenge for some, so it was done as a multiple choice exam.

Fair's fair, it's a way of weeding out the dummies early on. However, I think they could set the bar higher.

Same with standards of English. There are nurses out there who can barely talk in sentences, and who can't spell for toffi. (See what I did there).One of my Charges was on a course for second year Nurse Students ..she had to set up a mock drug kardex ..in that kardex she had E45 cream orally 3 x a day ...would it surprise you to know that not everyone picked that up ...?...:greengrin

[dawn]

What would that achieve? I'm genuinely interested to know.

What impact would it have on university education?

What impact would it have on businesses(both those started by young people and those that rely on students e.g. supermarkets)? The previous question will also impact this.


Although I never mentioned education, this would stop so many idiots going to university only to drop out a year down the line, or studying a subject that will bare no relation to their future employment, so I'd raise uni entry age as well. :greengrin

Starting a busines at a young age, teaches many invaluable lessons. These young business minded people will more than likely have been taught to take responsibility for there own actions.

Getting rid of supermarkets would be great, get the local shops back, they were an anchor point for most community's and they sold local seasonal produce, benefiting the local economy! :wink:

[J-C]

I'm not being funny, one of our assessments was on drug calculations. Typical questions were - what is 10% of 100. It was considered a tough challenge for some, so it was done as a multiple choice exam.

Fair's fair, it's a way of weeding out the dummies early on. However, I think they could set the bar higher.

Same with standards of English. There are nurses out there who can barely talk in sentences, and who can't spell for toffi. (See what I did there).


I did a 2 month intense training course to be a personal trainer and I had to learn all the bones in the body, all muscle groups(proper names mind), how the heart/lungs/circulatory system/muscles all work and also a dietry course, probably as much if not more than some nurses.

[hibeenicol]

[QUOTE=flash;2434241]At what point did respect for other people collapse to such a low that it is now socially acceptable to;

shout and swear on your phone
play music without headphones
not give up your seat to the elderly;

i witness these things on a daily basis and the only conclusion i can make is that we have bred a generation of morally bankrupt, socially ******ed little gits.

God knows what the country will be like in 2 or 3 generations time.[/QUOT

Out of your 3 examples 2 of them involve technology with mobile phones only really taking off in the last 10 years, and ipods, mobiles etc being able to play music out loudly without headphones. So I wouldn't say it's a respect issue more of technology changing how we all act.
Do you offer ypur seat on the bus to the elderly?

[hibbytam]

Quick look at Strathclyde Uni courses I'd say diddy degrees are things like


Hospitality & Tourism Management - Hotels need managers
Human Resource Management - Large corporations need HR managers
International Business- ? Not sure what such a degree would entail, but business skills are always useful
Journalism & Creative Writing- Journalism is a profession, and creativity should always be encouraged
Sport & Physical Activity- Football clubs, as an obvious example, need sports specialists.

Plus there are well documented stories about degrees in
David Beckham Studies- Really? Maybe as part of a PR course, how his image is managed. If it is true, then it's silly.
Parapsychology-
Surfing
Golf Management- Someone has to manage golf.
Outdoor Adventure with Philosophy
Equestrian Psychology
Aromatherapy

Ok, so the later ones I struggled with(that seem to be more hear-say than anything. I'd suspect that in most cases they're modules within a degree, than the degree itself)
BUT, there are some obvious jobs that would result from these degrees. My argument is that there are careers out of most degrees.


I would normally give my seat to the elderly. It's rare that I'd get a thank you out of it. Bad manners aren't limited the young.

[sleeping giant]

Easiest way for who? You can teach your child discipline,morals,respect, and so much more without having to resort to smacking them. Parenting isn't easy and it takes a lot of your time and dedication to get the right results which are so rewarding. The problem with smacking is some halfwits these days just think that's the answer without trying to teach their children the right ways to behave.
Not referring that comment to you by the way.

I can't smack my bairns.
I have done in the past but seeing them cowering in fear broke my heart.

Instead , i threaten them all the time , shout a lot more than i'd like and ground them for 2 week periods.:greengrin

A few of my mates hated their Dad when i was growing up.
Their Dads would belt them to teach them respect but still stagger home p1shed out their skulls when the pubs shut on a Sunday infront of everybody.:bitchy:
My Dad never smacked me. He was/is a big gentle Dad!
My Mum however , would leather me if i stepped out of line :greengrin:

Don't get me wrong , my Boy is no Angel !
He was grounded for a fortnight and within 2 days of being released , he was grounded again for another 2 weeks:grr:

If there was not so many utter ersehole adults doting about it would be a bit easier to teach Kids to repect their elders.

[Hainan Hibs]

I'll give up my seat but so help me god if I don't get a thank you. The amount of times I hold back the anger when they give me the evils before I have achance to get my arse off the seat and then get barged out the way so they can plant their arse down.

(On the subject of diddy degrees there can be some but I think it also depends on the student's attitude plus the view of the Uni. I go to RGU and even though many of the degrees would probably be viewed as "diddy" RGU has the 3rd best graudate level employment rating in the Uk because of it's links to industry)

[The_Todd]

When colour tv was invented. It's popular culture wot did it, clearly. Loud people shouting on the phone? Blame Dom Joly - he's loud and brash in a loutish way, not like my mate Boris who's loud in an acceptable way.

I also blame Health and Safety, Immigration, the Nanny State, Gordon Brown, the Euro, the European Union and the Guardian. Don't worry, the "big state" will cure what ails ya.

Yours
David Cameron.

[Danderhall Hibs]

When colour tv was invented. It's popular culture wot did it, clearly. Loud people shouting on the phone? Blame Dom Joly - he's loud and brash in a loutish way, not like my mate Boris who's loud in an acceptable way.

I also blame Health and Safety, Immigration, the Nanny State, Gordon Brown, the Euro, the European Union and the Guardian. Don't worry, the "big state" will cure what ails ya.

Yours
David Cameron.


David,

Did I just read a sentence where you didn't mention "job tax"?

Regards,

[The_Todd]

David,

Did I just read a sentence where you didn't mention "job tax"?

Regards,

I didn't forget, I just got so excited by my big society it slipped my mind. The jobs tax is going to cause financial armageddon I tell you. I mean, take poor Marks and Spencers? How will they afford their executive salaries, bonuses and singing on bonuses now? They'll have to sack staff! And that will all be Gordon's fault. Don't let Gordon tell you it's a rise in NIC contributions, we all know it's a brand new tax called Jobs Tax. Fact.

Yours
"Dave"

[Phil D. Rolls]

One of my Charges was on a course for second year Nurse Students ..she had to set up a mock drug kardex ..in that kardex she had E45 cream orally 3 x a day ...would it surprise you to know that not everyone picked that up ...?...:greengrin

I wondered why so many people were refusing E45 when I did the drugs round.


I did a 2 month intense training course to be a personal trainer and I had to learn all the bones in the body, all muscle groups(proper names mind), how the heart/lungs/circulatory system/muscles all work and also a dietry course, probably as much if not more than some nurses.

I can't really speak for general nurses, I think they get pretty intense stuf on anatomy and such like over the three years, right down to cell level.

[J-C]

I wondered why so many people were refusing E45 when I did the drugs round.



I can't really speak for general nurses, I think they get pretty intense stuf on anatomy and such like over the three years, right down to cell level.


What level of nursing are you doing ?

[Phil D. Rolls]

What level of nursing are you doing ?

Psychiatric, we do some anatomy in first year.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Psychiatric, we do some anatomy in first year.

Just to give folk their uppers and downers?

That's mental.

[Hermit Crab]

He said smacked not battered.

There is a difference between violence and discipline.

If you want to see lack of discipline come Behind the Goals on a Saturday :bitchy: Brats as a result of poor parenting responsibility :grr:


Or the big hall in the Hibs club.

[Pretty Boy]

It all started to go wrong when forums and discussion boards such as this one gave people who are easily offended and like a good moan a platform to air their views. Society has always complained about it's youth. In the past, however, you had to write to the newspaper or phone a radio show to complain about it, by which time you had probably calmed down with regards to the incident, now it's pretty much an instant reaction to share your views with the world whether it be via twitter, facebook, hibs.net etc etc.

I actually find most young people far less rude than many elderly people. I'm sick of old folk barging past me to get on a bus first, if you wait just a second i would offer to let you on before me, although exactly what the benefit is of doing this i have no idea. I'm sick of giving up my seat, holding open a door, helping lift a heavy item and so on and getting a blank stare back or a look of outright hostility.

I do feel there is a bit less common courtesy extended nowadays however i don't for a second believe it's limited to the younger generation or that it's anywhere near as bad as some would have us believe.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Just to give folk their uppers and downers?

That's mental.

I suppose so. :greengrin

[SHODAN]

There are plenty ways to raise a child properly that doesn't require any sort of physical punishment.

All that is required is a strong will and creating mutual respect, along with shouting or sanctions if necessary.

I was raised that way and have grown up perfectly fine.

The blame lies solely with the parents, I'm afraid, who haven't read up on how to raise their children properly. Parents who resort to hitting their kids have often have run out of ideas on how to treat their child and resort to the lowest common denominator - domestic abuse. Because that's all it is, I don't care how you'd like to dress it up.

Children as described in the first post probably already suffer an abusive home life, and use the outside world as a way of releasing their anguish. Abused at home - abusive outside the home. On top of that, they're in the minority.

The elderly like to put us all into one happy slapping, loud, obnixious group. Sorry guys, it doesn't work that way. I've been subject to verbal abuse - totally unmerited, I might add - from an OAP on more than one occasion.

Oh, and if you wanna call me part of the "PC brigade" or a "liberal pussy" - you know, all the cop-out buzz words that don't form any sort of rational argument - then away you go. :bye:

[RyeSloan]

At what point did respect for other people collapse to such a low that it is now socially acceptable to;

shout and swear on your phone
play music without headphones
not give up your seat to the elderly;

i witness these things on a daily basis and the only conclusion i can make is that we have bred a generation of morally bankrupt, socially ******ed little gits.

God knows what the country will be like in 2 or 3 generations time.

I think your question should be: Was it ever right?

It's a total fallacy that people 20/30/40 years ago were all law abiding citizens...you point on music without headphones remindes me of the outrage at ghettoblasters in the 80's or as others have pointed out radio's in the 50's.

The 'lock them all up' response is an automatic one for many but like Communisim it has been tried and proven to fail time after time...look at America's prisons and the huge increase in prison population states like California have resided over....none of it has been proven to reduce crime and in fact has been shown to do quite the opposite. The UK has been steadily increasing it's prison population as well despite many indicators showing that jailing 'minor' offenders simply encourages them to re-offend.

Of course our society could be fairer and safer but in relative terms to the majority of the world the UK is just that, I don't believe the 'Broken Britain' stuff and I believe even less that allowing the physical abuse of children in the name of displine, banning mobile music players and locking more and more of our population up is any route to making Britain 'right'.

[ArabHibee]

There are plenty ways to raise a child properly that doesn't require any sort of physical punishment.

All that is required is a strong will and creating mutual respect, along with shouting or sanctions if necessary.

I was raised that way and have grown up perfectly fine.

The blame lies solely with the parents, I'm afraid, who haven't read up on how to raise their children properly. Parents who resort to hitting their kids have often have run out of ideas on how to treat their child and resort to the lowest common denominator - domestic abuse. Because that's all it is, I don't care how you'd like to dress it up.

Children as described in the first post probably already suffer an abusive home life, and use the outside world as a way of releasing their anguish. Abused at home - abusive outside the home. On top of that, they're in the minority.

The elderly like to put us all into one happy slapping, loud, obnixious group. Sorry guys, it doesn't work that way. I've been subject to verbal abuse - totally unmerited, I might add - from an OAP on more than one occasion.

Oh, and if you wanna call me part of the "PC brigade" or a "liberal pussy" - you know, all the cop-out buzz words that don't form any sort of rational argument - then away you go. :bye:

Cheers for saving me doing it.

[Dinkydoo]

At what point did respect for other people collapse to such a low that it is now socially acceptable to;

shout and swear on your phone
play music without headphones
not give up your seat to the elderly;

i witness these things on a daily basis and the only conclusion i can make is that we have bred a generation of morally bankrupt, socially ******ed little gits.

God knows what the country will be like in 2 or 3 generations time.

Sorry, but I take particular issue with the first part in bold. I find that old people 'these days' are a lot more rude towards young people than vice versa.

To me anyone who simply expects respect because of thier age, profession...whatever, without having to properly earn it is a prat.

When do you ever see an elderly gentleman give up his seat to a diasbled (younger) member of the public.......:confused:

The reason as to why many of these standards has declined is simple, bad parenting.....which I suspect went on 100 years ago as well. It's a recursive cycle that needs to be broken but it's one that can only be broken by being properly educated and having good morals - it's a bit of a catch 22 IMO and the 'blame' certainely doesn't lie at the door of the young person.




when they banned the belt in schools

How do you teach someone that violence is wrong by smacking them with a belt? :faf:

Just a tad ironic don't you think.


:agree: My wife done the Nursing course a few years ago - I couldn't believe that you could pass an exam or essay with 40% - by getting less than half right you're considered competent!

My god that is shocking; especially when it's people's lives your dealing with!

[J-C]

Sorry, but I take particular issue with the first part in bold. I find that old people 'these days' are a lot more rude towards young people than vice versa.

To me anyone who simply expects respect because of thier age, profession...whatever, without having to properly earn it is a prat.

The fact they are elderly is the reason they should get our respect, go abroad and look at the way they treat their elders, with dignity and care. You'll not find many old peoples home or nursing homes, they look after their eldery themselves, they don't toss them in homes when they can't take care of them.
Yes they're not all kindly old people but they have worked their socks off for years helping to shape the world that you enjoy today, so respect has been earned.

When do you ever see an elderly gentleman give up his seat to a diasbled (younger) member of the public.......:confused:

The reason as to why many of these standards has declined is simple, bad parenting.....which I suspect went on 100 years ago as well. It's a recursive cycle that needs to be broken but it's one that can only be broken by being properly educated and having good morals - it's a bit of a catch 22 IMO and the 'blame' certainely doesn't lie at the door of the young person.

To a certain extent you are right but there are many examples of kids with good decent parents, who taught decent morals and these kids get involved due to peer pressure at school etc, how do you explain that one away.





How do you teach someone that violence is wrong by smacking them with a belt? :faf:

Just a tad ironic don't you think.

It wasn't the fact that you got the belt, it was the fact that the belt was there to be used which made it a deterent, would you have got into trouble knowing that 6 of the belt was what you'd get, then look like a tit because you cried for a few seconds afterwards, the so called hard lads in school were suddenly shown to be not so hard.
The same applies to jail, life there is far too easy, I know a few prison wardens and they tell me how it is. Jail should be a punishment for commiting crimes, not somewhere you can still play x boxes, watch telly etc. If there is no threat of jail being a hard nasty place then kids won't worry about doing time in them, think of some of the jails abroad and what they're like, then think of our prison system, a bit different eh!




My god that is shocking; especially when it's people's lives your dealing with!


.

[Kaiser_Sauzee]

I got smacked when I was bad. Mostly by Mum. If I was REALLY bad, I got "wait until Dad gets home".

I have no criminal record, a good job, I'm not dependent on alcohol or drugs, I respect the elderly, I don't throw rocks at firefighters, I don't sit at the back of the bus having s3x or playing loud music while swearing at war veterans, I don't graffiti public buildings, I don't p1ss in the street, I don't spit needlessly, I don't wear a hood solely to intimidate, I don't shoplift, I don't damage cars at night while pi55ed..... and so on and so on.

So smack these urchins. Cane them into a new epoch. Show them the error of their wretched ways. If not, let's have a better solution from the PC brigade instead of sanctimonious dribble.

[Dinkydoo]

The fact they are elderly is the reason they should get our respect, go abroad and look at the way they treat their elders, with dignity and care. You'll not find many old peoples home or nursing homes, they look after their eldery themselves, they don't toss them in homes when they can't take care of them.
Yes they're not all kindly old people but they have worked their socks off for years helping to shape the world that you enjoy today, so respect has been earned.

Generalisation:

Not all old people have worked thier "socks off" - I know a few that haven't worked all that much (or all that hard) thier entire life and they're still arrogant as ever.

Just because the elderly are treated with more respect in foreign countries deosn't mean that we are in the wrong and should be aiming towards the same ourselves.......

What about these countries that see women as second class citizins(sp).....should we be aiming to change our society by mirroring them?

To a certain extent you are right but there are many examples of kids with good decent parents, who taught decent morals and these kids get involved due to peer pressure at school etc, how do you explain that one away.

I'm afraid your right there, the answer I gave was a little simplistic and tbh I can't explain that one away.

However you have in part answered your own question, could the ‘well taught’ children not possibly have been influenced or peer pressured by the others who have been a victim of poor parenting…?

I know this isn’t explicitly the case and admit….I’m just being a little awkward = P

It wasn't the fact that you got the belt, it was the fact that the belt was there to be used which made it a deterent.......................................... .................................................. ..........

You can't possibly think that it's right to introduce such a method that encourages people to not commit crimes becuase they fear the punishment and not understand why it's wrong in the first place.

It doesn't what the method is (never mind the fact that it's a violent one), teaching people to fear punishment is something that I'd actively discourage as it takes them away from the actual consequence of thier action; and not the "Oh shiote, I'm gonny get a smack now eh!"

.
...

[MSK]

I got the occassional scud round the lug from my mum or the belt across the erkie from my dad when i was really bad...did it teach me a lesson ..?...i suppose it did ...but wasnt the pain from the skud or the skelp on the erkie though..it was when i was sent to my room to think about my "actions"...the pain from the leatherings disappear but the thought of being "grounded" horrified me !!! ...i could see my mates going past my window but i was grounded for a week on gardening or housework duties ...that bloody hurt more than any skelping...:agree:

The belt at school was another matter, i had it a few times, more for being mischevious than for anything else..i also think the teachers at Porty high were a bit belt happy at times ...my very last "lash" was from my art history teacher Mr Mcrobbie ...that was ****ing painful & i still have a scar on my right hand to this day ....:boo hoo:

[J-C]

Don't know when women from foreign countries came into this discussion, nothing to do with the thread, we're talking about countries like Spain, Italy etc, countries that still have strong family values.

School used to be a place where authority was never questioned along with the police and any other authority figures. Kids, well the majority knew how to behave back then, they knew how to respect others instead of fighting against them. There's no fear of any reprisals any more, it's like a case of we'll do as we want because you can't do anything to us anymore, you don't have any powers now so we'll all just be cheeky gets, cause trouble etc, and if you try to stop us we'll take you to court or phone child line. When all the talking in the world doesn't stop kids who misbehave badly, sometimes they deserve a clip round the ear, when you get older and have kids of your own and they're around 12-15 yrs old and full of testosterone, pushing their luck a bit too much, get back to me.

[Killiehibbie]

It all went wrong when they let that woman run the country.

[Beefster]

Don't know when women from foreign countries came into this discussion, nothing to do with the thread, we're talking about countries like Spain, Italy etc, countries that still have strong family values.

School used to be a place where authority was never questioned along with the police and any other authority figures. Kids, well the majority knew how to behave back then, they knew how to respect others instead of fighting against them. There's no fear of any reprisals any more, it's like a case of we'll do as we want because you can't do anything to us anymore, you don't have any powers now so we'll all just be cheeky gets, cause trouble etc, and if you try to stop us we'll take you to court or phone child line. When all the talking in the world doesn't stop kids who misbehave badly, sometimes they deserve a clip round the ear, when you get older and have kids of your own and they're around 12-15 yrs old and full of testosterone, pushing their luck a bit too much, get back to me.

I'm not sure the point that you're making about Italy and Spain but I'm fairly sure that smacking is illegal in Spain.

There are non-violent punishments that work too. I was never hit by my parents and I was far from an angel when I was a teen but my parents were all for grounding me as punishment and, as happyhibbie says, nothing was worse, when your life revolves around your mates and girls, than not being allowed out of the house for a week or two. I didn't turn into 100% well-behaved saint but then I was probably better behaved than I would have been if I was hit.

I've got a two year old toddler. I wouldn't dream of smacking him but he knows all about the 'naughty corner' and the threat of it tends to make him behave.

[heretoday]

I got smacked when I was bad. Mostly by Mum. If I was REALLY bad, I got "wait until Dad gets home".

I have no criminal record, a good job, I'm not dependent on alcohol or drugs, I respect the elderly, I don't throw rocks at firefighters, I don't sit at the back of the bus having s3x or playing loud music while swearing at war veterans, I don't graffiti public buildings, I don't p1ss in the street, I don't spit needlessly, I don't wear a hood solely to intimidate, I don't shoplift, I don't damage cars at night while pi55ed..... and so on and so on.

So smack these urchins. Cane them into a new epoch. Show them the error of their wretched ways. If not, let's have a better solution from the PC brigade instead of sanctimonious dribble.

Unfortunately hysteria gets you nowhere.

[Cocaine&Caviar]

At what point did respect for other people collapse to such a low that it is now socially acceptable to;

play music without headphones


.

I hate this! :grr:

[Hibrandenburg]

At what point did respect for other people collapse to such a low that it is now socially acceptable to;

shout and swear on your phone
play music without headphones
not give up your seat to the elderly;

i witness these things on a daily basis and the only conclusion i can make is that we have bred a generation of morally bankrupt, socially ******ed little gits.

God knows what the country will be like in 2 or 3 generations time.

It all went tits up around the time that we became consumers instead of customers :agree:

[J-C]

I'm not sure the point that you're making about Italy and Spain but I'm fairly sure that smacking is illegal in Spain.

There are non-violent punishments that work too. I was never hit by my parents and I was far from an angel when I was a teen but my parents were all for grounding me as punishment and, as happyhibbie says, nothing was worse, when your life revolves around your mates and girls, than not being allowed out of the house for a week or two. I didn't turn into 100% well-behaved saint but then I was probably better behaved than I would have been if I was hit.

I've got a two year old toddler. I wouldn't dream of smacking him but he knows all about the 'naughty corner' and the threat of it tends to make him behave.

Spain and Italy have few nursing and old peoples homes as they tend and look after their elderly themselves, because of the respect and stronger family values there.
I have never smacked my kids, the raised voice was all that was neede. My dad clip me round the ear once when he caught me with fags at the age of 13, never looked at a cigarette again

[Dinkydoo]

JC50Don't know when women from foreign countries came into this discussion, nothing to do with the thread, we're talking about countries like Spain, Italy etc, countries that still have strong family values.

No but it has eveything to do with the point you were trying to make around other countries having an elevated level of respect for thier elders.

My point was how does that relate to ourselves in any way??

Other countries have societies where homosexuals are victimised and women are treated like slaves; I wouldn't argue that because this seems to be 'the norm' elsewhere that we should be striving to do the same here. Because you only gave one benefit (if you can even call it that) of having more respect for the elderly (less Nursing homes to pay for) I'm struggling to see what point (if any) you're trying to make by mentioning other countries...

School used to be a place where authority was never questioned along with the police and any other authority figures. Kids, well the majority knew how to behave back then, they knew how to respect others instead of fighting against them. There's no fear of any reprisals any more, it's like a case of we'll do as we want because you can't do anything to us anymore, you don't have any powers now so we'll all just be cheeky gets, cause trouble etc, and if you try to stop us we'll take you to court or phone child line. When all the talking in the world doesn't stop kids who misbehave badly, sometimes they deserve a clip round the ear, when you get older and have kids of your own and they're around 12-15 yrs old and full of testosterone, pushing their luck a bit too much, get back
to me.


You generalise so many times in the above paragraph that I don't really see the point in replying. "Authority was never questioned...Kids, well the majority knew how to behave back then...There's no fear of any reprisals any more, it's like a case of we'll do as we want because you can't do anything to us anymore, you don't have any powers now so we'll all just be cheeky gets, cause trouble etc, and if you try to stop us we'll take you to court or phone child line."

:faf:

So, if in this magical land of fairies and lollypops when nobody ever did anything that bad and generally, the majority of people behaved themselves, why was there ever such a need for "the belt" at school? and how come so many people were on the receiving end?

"All the talking in the world doesn't stop kids misbehaving badly" might be true but my arguement on this thread has always been that hitting someone doesn't exactly achieve much either.

Understanding is the key, if you understand why you've not to do something and what the potential consequences of your actions could be, coupled with a little fear of being grounded (for example) then IMO your much less likely to go out and do it.

This was certainley the case for myself when I was a bit younger and it's not a case of "It didn't do me any harm...". IMO It's given me a solid grounding and as much preperation for adult life as possible.

I for one am glad that "the belt" has been abolished and would be completely against it's 'return'.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I got smacked when I was bad. Mostly by Mum. If I was REALLY bad, I got "wait until Dad gets home".

I have no criminal record, a good job, I'm not dependent on alcohol or drugs, I respect the elderly, I don't throw rocks at firefighters, I don't sit at the back of the bus having s3x or playing loud music while swearing at war veterans, I don't graffiti public buildings, I don't p1ss in the street, I don't spit needlessly, I don't wear a hood solely to intimidate, I don't shoplift, I don't damage cars at night while pi55ed..... and so on and so on.

So smack these urchins. Cane them into a new epoch. Show them the error of their wretched ways. If not, let's have a better solution from the PC brigade instead of sanctimonious dribble.

Sorry, but I don't agree with this. I don't think you can make an argument about what's best for everyone based on your own experience alone.

I think simplistic solutions to complex problems rarely work. The problem is that your solution has already been tried and shown to be wanting. The "PC Brigade" are trying to think a bit harder about finding something that works.

I take it the "PC Brigade" are all those nosey people like social workers and teachers and the police, who actually spend their lives thinking about and dealing with these problems?

[lyonhibs]

Don't know when women from foreign countries came into this discussion, nothing to do with the thread, we're talking about countries like Spain, Italy etc, countries that still have strong family values.

School used to be a place where authority was never questioned along with the police and any other authority figures. Kids, well the majority knew how to behave back then, they knew how to respect others instead of fighting against them. There's no fear of any reprisals any more, it's like a case of we'll do as we want because you can't do anything to us anymore, you don't have any powers now so we'll all just be cheeky gets, cause trouble etc, and if you try to stop us we'll take you to court or phone child line. When all the talking in the world doesn't stop kids who misbehave badly, sometimes they deserve a clip round the ear, when you get older and have kids of your own and they're around 12-15 yrs old and full of testosterone, pushing their luck a bit too much, get back to me.

You are joking, right???

My Grandma was a fearsome primary school teacher for 40+ years, and some of the stories she had of pupils behaviour would make your toes curl.

This is a topic on which people LOVE to get all "misty eyed" about these halycon "good old days", where rivers flowed full of milk and honey, where you could leave your front door unlocked because there was no crime and everyone loved everyone else.

Lot of p!sh if you ask me.

That's not to say that the things mentioned in the OP don't drive me up the wall, or that I am - in theory - wholeheartedly against smacking, but it's a slippery slope. There's quite enough child abuse as it is without a concerted "promotion" of physical discipline as a principal means of controlling your kids.

[hibsbollah]

As someone who is about to turn 40, what I notice most is the inconsiderate people of my own age or older. Grannies pushing past and demanding seats on the bus, middle age blokes having road rage episodes, old fellahs having tantrums if someone parks in front of their house etc. The 60s baby-boomer-having-it-all-generation have got their cheap mortgages, free education, decent health service, ****ed the environment, have a nice earnings-linked pension now and don't care about the younger generation.

Just another take on it.:wink:

[Hiber-nation]

School used to be a place where authority was never questioned .

Dunno about that, I remember a bam in my class asking the student teacher if she fancied a ride. And that was in 1972.

[J-C]

Yes there are always going to be kids at school who push their luck and cheek a bit further than other's it's happened for years ansd years, the one thing I have noticed is the lack of respect by the younger generation to the authority fugure. It just so happens the ones coming on here trying so desperately to make out as if the younger generation are all starry eyed and little angels are indeed the younger ones themselves.

In my day you would never see anyone throwing bricks at ambulances or fire engines, being agressive towards anyone who dared go outside their own home and ask the kids to either behave or be quiet. As has happened a few times in the past few years where people have been either killed or beaten up for facing up to a gang of youths.

Yes I wwent around in a crowd when I was younger but would never dream of beating someone up just because he came out his house asked us to move on, we'd moan, ball him a few names under our breathes but the main thing was he probably knew our dad's and we didn't want themto find out if we were doing anything wrong, cause we knew we'd get a hiding if we did.

There you have it, the threat of punishment, whether it's a grounding, or a clip round the ear, or even the threat of a proper jail sentence, take away the threat and you take away the fear.

My kids feared my raised voice, which was enough, some kids thinks, if all he does is shout and that's it, well I'll do it again because a raised voice is sod all, then the raised voice turns into a clip round the lug.

There are ignorant people of all ages all over the world, respect has to be earned, like teacher, police, parents, city elders etc. These are the authority figuers in most of our lives, take away the respect and anarchy ensues.


Dinky, you yourself stated that you have little respect for the elderly,why? I gave you examples of other countries who instead of flinging their elderly into homes, they look after them theirselves, this is what is meant by respect. Older people there have a purpose in life and are still seen as important mambers of the community, over here, flung in a home and forgotten about.

You seem to have a problem with the older generation Dinky, you talk about understanding the youngsters, then if you come on here slagging off the older generation like you initially did, how can we understand when the tone is agressive.

[J-C]

Dunno about that, I remember a bam in my class asking the student teacher if she fancied a ride. And that was in 1972.

You always had the one or two like that though, usually there wasn't any malice intended.

We used to go out our way to try and make life difficult for any student teacher, it was a bit like a trial to see if they could cope, we'd be around 12-13 yrs old. You grow up and grow out of it though, or someone( usually the ring leader ) would get pulled up to the headmasters room and get a what for, then you'd all sit there as quiet as mice for the rest of the time.:greengrin

[Dinkydoo]

Yes there are always going to be kids at school who push their luck and cheek a bit further than other's it's happened for years ansd years, the one thing I have noticed is the lack of respect by the younger generation to the authority fugure. It just so happens the ones coming on here trying so desperately to make out as if the younger generation are all starry eyed and little angels are indeed the younger ones themselves.

I don't think anyone is claiming that the youth of today are faultless just that a bit equality and understanding would be nice when you hear people constantly moaning about the kids these days.

In my day you would never see anyone throwing bricks at ambulances or fire engines, being agressive towards anyone who dared go outside their own home and ask the kids to either behave or be quiet. As has happened a few times in the past few years where people have been either killed or beaten up for facing up to a gang of youths.

I have to say that in Dumfries, it got really quite bad around 2 - 3 years ago. Gangs of bampots roaming the streets, folk getting battered simply because "Yer no fae this part ae the toon".

It's quite awful at times but it seems to have calmed down a bit recently.

Yes I wwent around in a crowd when I was younger but would never dream of beating someone up just because he came out his house asked us to move on, we'd moan, ball him a few names under our breathes but the main thing was he probably knew our dad's and we didn't want themto find out if we were doing anything wrong, cause we knew we'd get a hiding if we did.

There you have it, the threat of punishment, whether it's a grounding, or a clip round the ear, or even the threat of a proper jail sentence,take away the threat and you take away the fear.

Aye but is "threat" and "fear" the best/only way to control your children. I agree with you that the fear of punishment can be a deterrant (sp) but without understanding the person in question is likely to reoffend IMO. "Well son, why did you break into the shop ....again." "Sorry, I didn't think I'd get caught this time."

Where as if you maybe told the thief that the repercussions of his/her actions meant that the family who owned the business lost out on X hundred pounds in insurance money and that thier wee girl has been eating crackers for lunch all week, coupled with a hefty punishment, I certainley wouldn't do it again.

My kids feared my raised voice, which was enough, some kids thinks, if all he does is shout and that's it, well I'll do it again because a raised voice is sod all, then the raised voice turns into a clip round the lug.

Please don't take this the wrong way but my issue is that what happens when a "clip round the lug" fails to have an effect.....

....a kick in the jaw?

Not yourself personally by the way - just to avoid confusion.

There are ignorant people of all ages all over the world, respect has to be earned, like teacher, police, parents, city elders etc. These are the authority figuers in most of our lives, take away the respect and anarchy ensues.


This is what I've been saying...no? Respect is to be earned and not a default qualification through your age.

Dinky, you yourself stated that you have little respect for the elderly,why? I gave you examples of other countries who instead of flinging their elderly into homes, they look after them theirselves, this is what is meant by respect. Older people there have a purpose in life and are still seen as important mambers of the community, over here, flung in a home and forgotten about.

You seem to have a problem with the older generation Dinky, you talk about understanding the youngsters, then if you come on here slagging off the older generation like you initially did, how can we understand when the tone is agressive.

Sorry but that is complete rubbish. When did I ever say "I have little respect for the elderly"?

What I said was I take issue with people that automatically think that because of thier age, profession...whatever, that they are due respect - so lets cut the crap here eh.

I'd also like it if you could give me examples of "slagging off the older generation"

As I can't seem to find any:rolleyes:

Edit: I don't think that my initial post was anymore agressive than the OP to be honest. something about morally bankrupt little gits...

Pot, kettle and all that.

In terms of sending our elderly loved ones into homes, I don't think it's fair to criticise anyone in regards to this as we have no idea what factors have contributed personally in resulting with someone being sent to a nursing home.

By respect I mean, give up your seat, don't tlak back (even if you are making a valid point)....etc

[Phil D. Rolls]

[

In terms of sending our elderly loved ones into homes, I don't think it's fair to criticise anyone in regards to this as we have no idea what factors have contributed personally in resulting with someone being sent to a nursing home.


I'd take you more seriously on this subject if you sounded like you had half an idea what you're talking about. You don't get sent into a nursing home.

Do you think the elderly don't have rights?

[Dinkydoo]

I'd take you more seriously on this subject if you sounded like you had half an idea what you're talking about. You don't get sent into a nursing home.

Do you think the elderly don't have rights?

For crying out loud; this is getting petty now isn't it.

Of course I realise that the elderly have rights, bad choice of words on my part but I think you knew exactly what I meant.

FWIW, JC50 uses the term "fling" and "flung" in relation to this yet I note that you've not quoted him.

[Phil D. Rolls]

For crying out loud; this is getting petty now isn't it.

In what way?

[Dinkydoo]

In what way?

I suspect that I've probably answered this question by editing my post but here goes anyway:

I obviously realise that the elderly have rights and are not simply wrapped up, stamped and shipped out on mass to nursing homes - there has to be some level of compromise to make it as easy as possible for all parties involved.

I think it's a bit petty that you knew what I meant yet decided to choose to get offended by it - as I find it hard to believe that someone like yourself really is that presumptious. In fact I'm certain of it, you'd have commented on JC50's wording before mines if your natural reaction was to interpret "resulting with someone being sent to a home" as thinking older people don't have the same rights as the rest of us.

[DaveF]

Unfortunately we're now dealing with second and third generations of gits who have been brought up by people with no parenting skills whatsoever. It's just gonna get worse as more and more of these poor unsuspecting children are born to a society where they're given no guidance moral or otherwise by their parents who have themselves been dragged up with little or no parental guidance to speak of.

Very true.

I was brought up in a rough part of Edinburgh, but have always given up my seat on buses, opened doors, helped people across the road etc... not because I'm any sort of hero, but because I had these simple guidelines\morals call them what you will, instilled into me from a young age.

I'm now a parent and its my turn to teach these same, simple basic to my kids.

They know (although quite often need reminding!) to hold open doors for others, not to speak over the top of others, hold onto litter till they find a bin \ get home....etc.

Sure, they can still be little ****ers at times, but if they grow up with a little bit of respect for those around them, then I'll feel happy that I've done a good job.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think it's a bit petty that you knew what I meant yet decided to choose to get offended by it - as I find it hard to believe that someone like yourself really is that presumptious. In fact I'm certain of it, you'd have commented on JC50's wording before mines if your natural reaction was to interpret "resulting with someone being sent to a home" as thinking older people don't have the same rights as the rest of us.

Fair enough. I only read your post because it was last. I was only stirring it. I wasn't offended at all, just amused at the thought of old folk getting sent away because they are an inconvenience.

[Dinkydoo]

Fair enough. I only read your post because it was last. I was only stirring it. I wasn't offended at all, just amused at the thought of old folk getting sent away because they are an inconvenience.


No bother.

I must admit that I did jump the gun a little threre. Apologies if the response came across rather sharp. :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

No bother.

I must admit that I did jump the gun a little threre. Apologies if the response came across rather sharp. :greengrin

Nah, you were quite right. :thumbsup:

[J-C]

Sorry but that is complete rubbish. When did I ever say "I have little respect for the elderly"?

What I said was I take issue with people that automatically think that because of thier age, profession...whatever, that they are due respect - so lets cut the crap here eh.

I'd also like it if you could give me examples of "slagging off the older generation"

As I can't seem to find any:rolleyes:

Edit: I don't think that my initial post was anymore agressive than the OP to be honest. something about morally bankrupt little gits...

Pot, kettle and all that.

In terms of sending our elderly loved ones into homes, I don't think it's fair to criticise anyone in regards to this as we have no idea what factors have contributed personally in resulting with someone being sent to a nursing home.

By respect I mean, give up your seat, don't tlak back (even if you are making a valid point)....etc

Fair do's young man, maybe you didn't exatly say these things but it came over that way, my interpretation as your post seemed to jump on the elderly right from the start.

I must admit some of these older generation can be a real pain in the proverbial but I was brought up to give elderly repect, why? because they are old and as such deserve it. You can't go arguing with them, it just isn't the done thing, let them be a moan and ignore them. :greengrin

I must admit that I find drugs are a real serious issue nowadays, they are too easily available, 30 years ago you could get them but only a few people knew where to get them, now on any street corner there's someone selling them. Cocaine used to be the rich man's drug, now cheap as chips and anyone can afford it. With drug addiction comes crime, and it's all a vicious circle.

With regards to elderly and nursing homes, my point was we as a society nowadays tend to put them into these homes all too easily, they become a burden on us and it's an easy option. Is this due to the break up in society as a rule, where we are becoming increasingly selfish in our lttle worlds and the family is becoming less important. Obviously when someone is needing constant round the clock nursing, well a home is the sensible option, but all too often they get put there when they get in the way of your own lives, something which doesn't happen in a lot of other countries.

[Phil D. Rolls]

With regards to elderly and nursing homes, my point was we as a society nowadays tend to put them into these homes all too easily, they become a burden on us and it's an easy option. Is this due to the break up in society as a rule, where we are becoming increasingly selfish in our lttle worlds and the family is becoming less important. Obviously when someone is needing constant round the clock nursing, well a home is the sensible option, but all too often they get put there when they get in the way of your own lives, something which doesn't happen in a lot of other countries.

I think only the very rich can afford to pay the £900 a week or so that it costs to stay in nursing home. Most of the residents I have come across are there because they can't be cared for at home, and receive funding to support them.

I think it would put an incredible strain on most families to actually look after these people themselves.

[Speedy]

I think one of the reasons there is a lack of respect, people being violent etc. is that communities are not the same as they used to be.

People move about more and do not know their neighbours very well and there isn't a sense of pride in the community that there perhaps once was. I suppose this links to what one of the other posters said about not giving lip to people coming out their houses because their parents would find out.

I agree with Dinkydoo about respecting the elderly. I have no problem respecting the elderly if they are a reasonable person. However, I do not think someone deserves respect solely because they are old because all that shows if that they have managed to stay alive.

[Dinkydoo]

Fair do's young man, maybe you didn't exatly say these things but it came over that way, my interpretation as your post seemed to jump on the elderly right from the start.

Fair enough, I can see how that wouldn't have done me any favours in terms of trying to convey my views on the subject.

I must admit some of these older generation can be a real pain in the proverbial but I was brought up to give elderly repect, why? because they are old and as such deserve it. You can't go arguing with them, it just isn't the done thing, let them be a moan and ignore them. :greengrin

I do......usually :devil:

Unfortuantely because my area of expertise lies within technology and I'm one of the youngest staff members in NHS D&G, I know exaclt how much of a pain some folk can be!

Computer literacy can be a realy problem at times.

I must admit that I find drugs are a real serious issue nowadays, they are too easily available, 30 years ago you could get them but only a few people knew where to get them, now on any street corner there's someone selling them. Cocaine used to be the rich man's drug, now cheap as chips and anyone can afford it. With drug addiction comes crime, and it's all a vicious circle.

With regards to elderly and nursing homes, my point was we as a society nowadays tend to put them into these homes all too easily, they become a burden on us and it's an easy option. Is this due to the break up in society as a rule, where we are becoming increasingly selfish in our lttle worlds and the family is becoming less important. Obviously when someone is needing constant round the clock nursing, well a home is the sensible option, but all too often they get put there when they get in the way of your own lives, something which doesn't happen in a lot of other countries.

That makes more sense to me now, and funnily enough I agree with you. I must have misconstrued what you meant before around this as our definitions of "respect" differ slightly.

Anyway, off home for the long weekend. Hope you all enjoy it if you're lucky enoughto get one like me! :faf::devil:

[HibeeEmma]

Teens playing their music loud on buses must be a new thing because I don't remember it a few years back.

Not only annoying but really cringe worthy too

[Phil D. Rolls]

Teens playing their music loud on buses must be a new thing because I don't remember it a few years back.

Not only annoying but really cringe worthy too

It always has been cringeworthy.

http://www.hibs.net/message/showpost.php?p=2434324&postcount=9

[J-C]

I think only the very rich can afford to pay the £900 a week or so that it costs to stay in nursing home. Most of the residents I have come across are there because they can't be cared for at home, and receive funding to support them.

I think it would put an incredible strain on most families to actually look after these people themselves.


This is the case to an extent but there is a lot more nursing homes doing deals with the government where they are paid a percentage by the Scottish Office and the family or the pension pays the rest, I know this because my father in law was in one for 3 years, he needed constant nursing after a stroke.

It can be a strain if they needed the constant care for their health but all too often they're put into these places when all they have is dementia, parkinson's atc.

---------- Post added at 04:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:23 PM ----------


That makes more sense to me now, and funnily enough I agree with you. I must have misconstrued what you meant before around this as our definitions of "respect" differ slightly.

Anyway, off home for the long weekend. Hope you all enjoy it if you're lucky enoughto get one like me! :faf::devil:


Have a nice weekend. I'll be working all through :confused:

[hibsbollah]

As someone who is about to turn 40, what I notice most is the inconsiderate people of my own age or older. Grannies pushing past and demanding seats on the bus, middle age blokes having road rage episodes, old fellahs having tantrums if someone parks in front of their house etc. The 60s baby-boomer-having-it-all-generation have got their cheap mortgages, free education, decent health service, ****ed the environment, have a nice earnings-linked pension now and don't care about the younger generation.

Just another take on it.:wink:

To emphasise the point above, as I speak the sad 50-something across the road is washing his car while listening to Smooth FM at about 150 decibels. He's got the golf club membership, the beige slacks, the pink golfing jumper, respectable ugly orange-tanned wife. But he's a bigger antisocial prick than most 'neds' or 'chavs' i come across.

[Phil D. Rolls]

This is the case to an extent but there is a lot more nursing homes doing deals with the government where they are paid a percentage by the Scottish Office and the family or the pension pays the rest, I know this because my father in law was in one for 3 years, he needed constant nursing after a stroke.

It can be a strain if they needed the constant care for their health but all too often they're put into these places when all they have is dementia, parkinson's atc.

---------- Post added at 04:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:23 PM ----------






Have a nice weekend. I'll be working all through :confused:

Both of those are progressive diseases that will eventually completely incapacitate the person. They need professional care.

To get the funding, their dementia or parkinson's would have to be such that they couldn't live without 24 hour care. That's too big a strain on the families IMO.

ps How did the weekend go? I noticed a good few hen parties about, and also there was the rugby league - things picking up yet?

[ArabHibee]

I got smacked when I was bad. Mostly by Mum. If I was REALLY bad, I got "wait until Dad gets home".

I have no criminal record, a good job, I'm not dependent on alcohol or drugs, I respect the elderly, I don't throw rocks at firefighters, I don't sit at the back of the bus having s3x or playing loud music while swearing at war veterans, I don't graffiti public buildings, I don't p1ss in the street, I don't spit needlessly, I don't wear a hood solely to intimidate, I don't shoplift, I don't damage cars at night while pi55ed..... and so on and so on.

So smack these urchins. Cane them into a new epoch. Show them the error of their wretched ways. If not, let's have a better solution from the PC brigade instead of sanctimonious dribble.
:thumbsup:Loving your work!

[J-C]

Both of those are progressive diseases that will eventually completely incapacitate the person. They need professional care.

To get the funding, their dementia or parkinson's would have to be such that they couldn't live without 24 hour care. That's too big a strain on the families IMO.

ps How did the weekend go? I noticed a good few hen parties about, and also there was the rugby league - things picking up yet?


Getting better but the financial climate is starting to hit Edinburgh a lot now, we have a choice, work harder or tighten our own belts :greengrin.

Rugby weekend was ok, got a few fares but mainly short ones from Murrayfield to to town, they all seemed to get here by coach or train.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Getting better but the financial climate is starting to hit Edinburgh a lot now, we have a choice, work harder or tighten our own belts :greengrin.

Rugby weekend was ok, got a few fares but mainly short ones from Murrayfield to to town, they all seemed to get here by coach or train.

Stick in mate, it's not as if there's a massive queue of people wanting to drive cabs, what with the employment situation being what it is.....:greengrin

The missus was out on Saturday, said the ranks were pretty full at midnight. Unheard of in my day, and that was only 2 years ago. :bitchy:

[hibsdaft]

Hare (as in Burke and Hare) was released without serving any time in prison.

there were 100,000 prostitutes in London in 1860.

people mythologise the past.