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View Full Version : How long does Yogi get to turn it around from now?



Bob Box Fish
18-04-2010, 12:32 PM
This season consider the 2 most likely scenarios:

(1) We finish 6th. No european spot or progress on last season in terms of league position / cups / european place.

(2) We finish 5th and get a european spot despite not winning any games and Hearts being equally as gash.

Next season:

Say Yogi brings in a few players / punts a few of the current mob.

We have a mixu style pre-season and dont win any games including european if we are lucky enough to even get there.

Do we let him start the new league season as manager or do we think we should get someone in ASAP and try and turn it around? Again he has brought in some players.

Personally, I would give him the first round of games and if the same rubbish is still apparant: soft team, no midfield, simple goal keeping errors, players played out of position, poor tactical decisions when ahead, players generally not giving a toss etc. I would get rid and get someone else in.

I originally thought give him to xmas but if we continue as we are going we could end up in a relegation battle.

Thoughts?

blackpoolhibs
18-04-2010, 12:34 PM
3 more years minimum, let him build a dynasty.:notworthy:

Supermac
18-04-2010, 12:40 PM
If this current run of results continues to the end of this season and then into October/November next season I wouldn't bet on him still being at ER by Christmas.

Cropley10
18-04-2010, 12:42 PM
3 more years minimum, let him build a dynasty.:notworthy:

Why should he be given 3 years? 4 games left to scrape into 5th place. Let's see what happens if our relegation form continues into pre-season.

bingo70
18-04-2010, 12:47 PM
This season consider the 2 most likely scenarios:

(1) We finish 6th. No european spot or progress on last season in terms of league position / cups / european place.

(2) We finish 5th and get a european spot despite not winning any games and Hearts being equally as gash.

Next season:

Say Yogi brings in a few players / punts a few of the current mob.

We have a mixu style pre-season and dont win any games including european if we are lucky enough to even get there.

Do we let him start the new league season as manager or do we think we should get someone in ASAP and try and turn it around? Again he has brought in some players.

Personally, I would give him the first round of games and if the same rubbish is still apparant: soft team, no midfield, simple goal keeping errors, players played out of position, poor tactical decisions when ahead, players generally not giving a toss etc. I would get rid and get someone else in.

I originally thought give him to xmas but if we continue as we are going we could end up in a relegation battle.

Thoughts?

I don't think it matters where we finish this season, Yogi's future will be determined at the start of next season, i want him to be given time but if we start next season the same way we're finishing this season then thats relegation form so there's no way he'll be allowed to continue.

I'm confident he'll bring in the right players in the summer to sort out our problems though so i don't expect him to be going anywhere.


3 more years minimum, let him build a dynasty.:notworthy:

:greengrin

bingo70
18-04-2010, 12:48 PM
Why should he be given 3 years? 4 games left to scrape into 5th place. Let's see what happens if our relegation form continues into pre-season.

pre-season :confused:

You'd sack him if we have a poor pre-season? Your ****ing mental :greengrin :wink:

Bob Box Fish
18-04-2010, 12:54 PM
I don't think it matters where we finish this season, Yogi's future will be determined at the start of next season, i want him to be given time but if we start next season the same way we're finishing this season then thats relegation form so there's no way he'll be allowed to continue.

I'm confident he'll bring in the right players in the summer to sort out our problems though so i don't expect him to be going anywhere.



:greengrin

I think it does, the higher up the league you finish the more you get which could affect next seasons player budget (if there is one).

bingo70
18-04-2010, 12:59 PM
I think it does, the higher up the league you finish the more you get which could affect next seasons player budget (if there is one).

I think the difference is pretty marginal though, i don't think it's enough to really influence the player budget.

I was actually meaning about my own opinion though, not what i think the board will do, i've pretty much written this season off as a disapointing one, whether we finish 4th, 5th or 6th won't really change my opinion on the manager.

Frazerbob
18-04-2010, 01:01 PM
pre-season :confused:

You'd sack him if we have a poor pre-season? Your ****ing mental :greengrin :wink:

We'll never have as bad a pre-season as Mixu had and he wasn't binned.

Bob Box Fish
18-04-2010, 01:01 PM
I think the difference is pretty marginal though, i don't think it's enough to really influence the player budget.

I was actually meaning about my own opinion though, not what i think the board will do, i've pretty much written this season off as a disapointing one, whether we finish 4th, 5th or 6th won't really change my opinion on the manager.

Might be wrong but a few year ago I think it was roughly 65k per place so the difference between 4th - 6th could be a signing really.

bingo70
18-04-2010, 01:05 PM
Might be wrong but a few year ago I think it was roughly 65k per place so the difference between 4th - 6th could be a signing really.

aye, you might be right, that figure rings bells as well.

Not sure how it would be affected by the pisher TV deal we've got now though :dunno:

basehibby
18-04-2010, 01:16 PM
This season consider the 2 most likely scenarios:

(1) We finish 6th. No european spot or progress on last season in terms of league position / cups / european place.

(2) We finish 5th and get a european spot despite not winning any games and Hearts being equally as gash.

Next season:

Say Yogi brings in a few players / punts a few of the current mob.

We have a mixu style pre-season and dont win any games including european if we are lucky enough to even get there.

Do we let him start the new league season as manager or do we think we should get someone in ASAP and try and turn it around? Again he has brought in some players.

Personally, I would give him the first round of games and if the same rubbish is still apparant: soft team, no midfield, simple goal keeping errors, players played out of position, poor tactical decisions when ahead, players generally not giving a toss etc. I would get rid and get someone else in.

I originally thought give him to xmas but if we continue as we are going we could end up in a relegation battle.

Thoughts?

What makes it so unlikely that we'll finish 4th - has the universe turned inside out while I was sleeping and Hearts and Motherwell are now world beaters :confused:

bingo70
18-04-2010, 01:19 PM
What makes it so unlikely that we'll finish 4th - has the universe turned inside out while I was sleeping and Hearts and Motherwell are now world beaters :confused:

Think it's probably because we're pish :wink:

Cropley10
18-04-2010, 01:23 PM
What makes it so unlikely that we'll finish 4th - has the universe turned inside out while I was sleeping and Hearts and Motherwell are now world beaters :confused:

Might have something to do with being on a little bit of a bad run? And not having shown up in any of the three previous derbies? And that Motherwell pitch? And Bamba, Miller, Murray being suspended? :dunno:

down the slope
18-04-2010, 01:26 PM
Yogi will get until the tash sees the ST sales.

iwasthere1972
18-04-2010, 01:31 PM
Think it's probably because we're pish :wink:


Aye but we are still better pish than the Yams or Motherwell. :agree:

Bob Box Fish
18-04-2010, 01:34 PM
Aye but we are still better pish than the Yams or Motherwell. :agree:

Yams aye, Mwell naw.

Cropley10
18-04-2010, 01:34 PM
Yogi will get until the tash sees the ST sales.

How low would the numbers have to get though? Yogi and his incredible rebuilding job is here to stay.

iwasthere1972
18-04-2010, 01:36 PM
Yams aye, Mwell naw.

The result will be known at 6pm. C'mon the Arabs.

Bob Box Fish
18-04-2010, 01:41 PM
How low would the numbers have to get though? Yogi and his incredible rebuilding job is here to stay.

I think the payment plan season tickets sold will improve numbers regardless of where we finish its a really good offer.

bingo70
18-04-2010, 01:45 PM
I think the payment plan season tickets sold will improve numbers regardless of where we finish its a really good offer.

That and the new stand means i don't think there'll be any need to panic.

Of course it's a shame we probably won't be making the most of these 2 factors, however re-building jobs take time and hopefully a bit patience now will reap its rewards later on.

basehibby
18-04-2010, 02:04 PM
Think it's probably because we're pish :wink:

And Hertz and Motherwell????

Diclonius
18-04-2010, 02:06 PM
New Year.

Hermit Crab
18-04-2010, 02:07 PM
get rid of him and bring in who???:confused:

Diclonius
18-04-2010, 02:09 PM
get rid of him and bring in who???:confused:

I think the guy most people are wanting just now is McInnes. :dunno:

bingo70
18-04-2010, 02:10 PM
And Hertz and Motherwell????

i agree that hearts are rank rotten, i'm not overly concerned about them, motherwell though are playing with a lot more confidence and are on a better run than us, they've also got home advantage when they play us so i'd say they're favorites to finish 4th.

crash
18-04-2010, 02:15 PM
I find it hard to understand how anybody who has watched the performances this season can conclude that Hughes should be allowed to manage the club beyond the summer.

bingo70
18-04-2010, 02:17 PM
I find it hard to understand how anybody who has watched the performances this season can conclude that Hughes should be allowed to manage the club beyond the summer.

Over the season or over the last 2 months?

iwasthere1972
18-04-2010, 02:24 PM
i agree that hearts are rank rotten, i'm not overly concerned about them, motherwell though are playing with a lot more confidence and are on a better run than us, they've also got home advantage when they play us so i'd say they're favorites to finish 4th.

Motherwell haven't won since the 13th of March and that includes a "home pumping" by Falkirk. Admittedly they have played Dundee Utd and Celtic in that time but they are by no means world beaters. Hopefully they take nothing from today's game with Dundee United.

In truth past form and results count for nothing. It's what happens from now until the end of the season that matters.

WestEndHibee
18-04-2010, 02:28 PM
3 more years minimum, let him build a dynasty.:notworthy:
:top marksHe'll be scotland's wenger. Never lose the faith. :notworthy:

Sumner
18-04-2010, 02:30 PM
"Until the Twelfth of Never, and that's a long long time" :yawn: :bitchy:

WestEndHibee
18-04-2010, 02:31 PM
I find it hard to understand how anybody who has watched the performances this season can conclude that Hughes should be allowed to manage the club beyond the summer.

Have you only just joined us? Up until the end of January we were on course for one of our best seasons in the spl!

iwasthere1972
18-04-2010, 02:31 PM
:top marksHe'll be scotland's wenger. Never lose the faith. :notworthy:


:thumbsup: :notworthy:

He should be given more time than the Kray twins.

seanraff07
18-04-2010, 02:32 PM
pre-season :confused:

You'd sack him if we have a poor pre-season? Your ****ing mental :greengrin :wink:

We will never gave a manager sacked during pre-season.

You can't get much worse than a deserved 2-0 defeat and get completely outplayed by Cowdenbeath. Yet Mixu didn't get sacked after that did he?:bitchy:

VivaPalmeiras
18-04-2010, 02:58 PM
I think the guy most people are wanting just now is McInnes. :dunno:

Rangers man - that'd go down well :devil:

bingo70
18-04-2010, 03:01 PM
We will never gave a manager sacked during pre-season.

You can't get much worse than a deserved 2-0 defeat and get completely outplayed by Cowdenbeath. Yet Mixu didn't get sacked after that did he?:bitchy:

No manager should ever be sacked because of a pre-season result, i wanted Mixu away as much as the next man, however to sack him then would have been ridiculous.

The Harp Awakes
18-04-2010, 03:04 PM
Rangers man - that'd go down well :devil:

Aye, right enough, that'll mean he'll get about half the time Yogi's had to put it right:agree:

crash
18-04-2010, 03:06 PM
Over the season or over the last 2 months?

Over the season,(not possible to carry out a proper assessment over 2 months) . For me we havent played well at any point of the season.

Aldo
18-04-2010, 03:08 PM
Rome was not built in a day.

Next season and he will know himself what is required.

bingo70
18-04-2010, 03:09 PM
Over the season,(not possible to carry out a proper assessment over 2 months) . For me we havent played well at any point of the season.

Even then though, up until a couple of months ago he was getting the results with a pretty poor bunch of players IMO, so i think your being unfair to say you can't understand how anyone can want to give him more time.

Mikey
18-04-2010, 03:17 PM
Interesting comment from Peter Houston before today's game. He says it's taken 3 1/2 years work by him and Craig Levein to the Dundee United where they are today............. within one win of European football.

However, yesterday's substitution of Benji for Nish when we were 2-1 up still concerns me. The game should have been closed out at that stage. You get 3 points for winning 1-2 at parkhead and you get 3 points for winning 1-3 at Parkhead. What was Hughes trying to do?

I'm not sure if it's an unwillingness to change things, or an inability to change things, but either way it's cost us a lot of points this season.

Dashing Bob S
18-04-2010, 03:27 PM
Sometimes I have to pinch myself when I see that we're still 4th and with a positive goal difference, it seems so long since we actually kicked a ball. But that illustrates just how poor this league is. The Hun side that is winning it by a mile probably wouldn't even make the championship play-offs in England.

The (in some ways sad) truth is that we're capable of getting a victory in any of our last four games. We're still poor, but we're playing against other garbage, and there's some evidence that a smidgen of professional pride, team spirit and organisation are creeping back, as players know that they are fighting for their futures next season. And this won't just at Hibs, but many players will be out on their ears next season, as I expect a really tough round of cost-cutting to take place across Scottish football.

We'll all have to get used to a mix of young emerging players, and a few experienced guys on decent contracts. That means that there will be a lot of honest (or dishonest) pros who find that the domestic game can no longer sustain them. (And there will be no refuge in the lower leagues of England either.)

Hibs have, on paper, a decent, if chronically imbalanced squad. We've generally unperformed all season, but initially got away with it due to Riordan and Stokes's predatory abilities, and a fit McBride playing out of his skin and servicing Miller, and Bamba holding the defence together. In short, we relied on too few players, had no width, and had a game which suited the first half of the season. Once you get sussed out in this 3/4 games per season madness, you get closed down quickly. Add to that the way the pitches become heavy, and it takes it's toll if you don't have hard, strong midfielders with an engine, who can fight and close games down.

I think we're in for a very ugly end to one of the strangest and most frustrating seasons I can remember at ER. I think Hughes knows he's been let down by some players, and I'm sure they'll be out, but in his private moments he'll also be aware of the mistakes he's made, both in the transfer windows (goalies at the expense of r.b. and holding midfielders) and tactics (4-3-3 and lack of utilisation of wide, pacy lads like Galbraith) and will hopefully try to remedy that.

As unpalatable as it sounds sending this bunch of wasters to some Eastern Europe place, out of the season, to be humiliated by baw-frozen postmen, it represents some sort of progress and we should be trying hard to get into Europe, by getting positive results in the last few fixtures.

sahib
18-04-2010, 03:27 PM
Yogi will get until the tash sees the ST sales.

ST sales are also under pressure because of the period of austerity we are in and will be in for years to come. It would be foolish of Petrie to lay all the blame at the manager's door every year. If that is the road he is going down he should just hand them one year contracts. He could then announce a new celeb/guest manager every year in time to lure the punters in.

crash
18-04-2010, 03:31 PM
Even then though, up until a couple of months ago he was getting the results with a pretty poor bunch of players IMO, so i think your being unfair to say you can't understand how anyone can want to give him more time.

He came in last June, if they are a poor bunch why didn't he address this last summer?

noseyhibby
18-04-2010, 03:35 PM
Sometimes I have to pinch myself when I see that we're still 4th and with a positive goal difference, it seems so long since we actually kicked a ball. But that illustrates just how poor this league is. The Hun side that is winning it by a mile probably wouldn't even make the championship play-offs in England.

The (in some ways sad) truth is that we're capable of getting a victory in any of our last four games. We're still poor, but we're playing against other garbage, and there's some evidence that a smidgen of professional pride, team spirit and organisation are creeping back, as players know that they are fighting for their futures next season. And this won't just at Hibs, but many players will be out on their ears next season, as I expect a really tough round of cost-cutting to take place across Scottish football.

We'll all have to get used to a mix of young emerging players, and a few experienced guys on decent contracts. That means that there will be a lot of honest (or dishonest) pros who find that the domestic game can no longer sustain them. (And there will be no refuge in the lower leagues of England either.)

Hibs have, on paper, a decent, if chronically imbalanced squad. We've generally unperformed all season, but initially got away with it due to Riordan and Stokes's predatory abilities, and a fit McBride playing out of his skin and servicing Miller, and Bamba holding the defence together. In short, we relied on too few players, had no width, and had a game which suited the first half of the season. Once you get sussed out in this 3/4 games per season madness, you get closed down quickly. Add to that the way the pitches become heavy, and it takes it's toll if you don't have hard, strong midfielders with an engine, who can fight and close games down.

I think we're in for a very ugly end to one of the strangest and most frustrating seasons I can remember at ER. I think Hughes knows he's been let down by some players, and I'm sure they'll be out, but in his private moments he'll also be aware of the mistakes he's made, both in the transfer windows (goalies at the expense of r.b. and holding midfielders) and tactics (4-3-3 and lack of utilisation of wide, pacy lads like Galbraith) and will hopefully try to remedy that.

As unpalatable as it sounds sending this bunch of wasters to some Eastern Europe place, out of the season, to be humiliated by baw-frozen postmen, it represents some sort of progress and we should be trying hard to get into Europe, by getting positive results in the last few fixtures.

:top marks:agree:

bingo70
18-04-2010, 03:36 PM
He came in last June, if they are a poor bunch why didn't he address this last summer?

It takes time to assess the squad, so he's only really had one transfer window after seeing the team in competitive action and there's always very little transfer activity in the january window as no one is really out of contract and clubs don't want to let players go during the season.

to expect him to sort the squad in two transfer windows in unrealistic IMO, thats why i'm happy to give him the start of next season to see who he brings in during the summer

blackpoolhibs
18-04-2010, 03:38 PM
He came in last June, if they are a poor bunch why didn't he address this last summer?

Is there any of this you dont quite understand?

Interesting comment from Peter Houston before today's game. He says it's taken 3 1/2 years work by him and Craig Levein to the Dundee United where they are today............. within one win of European football.

crash
18-04-2010, 03:58 PM
It takes time to assess the squad, so he's only really had one transfer window after seeing the team in competitive action and there's always very little transfer activity in the january window as no one is really out of contract and clubs don't want to let players go during the season.

to expect him to sort the squad in two transfer windows in unrealistic IMO, thats why i'm happy to give him the start of next season to see who he brings in during the summer

I probably have a slight advantage over many commentators on here in that I have known Yogi since he was a Celtic fan (1974). All I will say is he can talk for Scotland, but there is not a lot more there. I'll give him this, he seems to have fooled a lot of people, but then again so did Mixu.

noseyhibby
18-04-2010, 03:58 PM
Hughes should be given till end of November. If our "relegation-type" form is still being maintained then he should be moved on and a new manager put in place by mid December,who can take advantage of the transfer window in January.
Hughes, basically, has this summers transfer window to get it right, bring in quality and get shot of the dross disguised as footballers currently fleecing Hibs for a wage.

Cropley10
18-04-2010, 04:05 PM
I think Hughes knows he's been let down by some players, and I'm sure they'll be out, but in his private moments he'll also be aware of the mistakes he's made, both in the transfer windows (goalies at the expense of r.b. and holding midfielders) and tactics (4-3-3 and lack of utilisation of wide, pacy lads like Galbraith) and will hopefully try to remedy that.


Fine words Bob. And IMO the para above is what divides the Happy Clappers from the Gloom and Doomers.

I'm very much hoping that Yogi proves me wrong and does indeed learn from his mistakes. As Mikey wrote earlier - why bring on Benji and go for 3-1? Cos he thinks he's smarter than he is. I don't think he does learn. Nothing he has done yet as Manager of Hibernian points to that, in fact the opposite.

Right now every other Club in the Division hopes that Yogi stays for next season and the season after that. And we're left hoping he turns into Super Manager with the addition of a RB, CH and a decent midfielder?

Cropley10
18-04-2010, 04:09 PM
I probably have a slight advantage over many commentators on here in that I have known Yogi since he was a Celtic fan (1974). All I will say is he can talk for Scotland, but there is not a lot more there. I'll give him this, he seems to have fooled a lot of people, but then again so did Mixu.

Interesting. I've heard him talk too, very long on theory, very idealist I'd say - too pally with the Players, and too stubborn as well. Do you think he'd ever play a proper 4-4-2 or even 4-5-1 or does that go against his views?

And what do you mean he was a Celtc fan?:confused:

IWasThere2016
18-04-2010, 04:55 PM
There has been a turnover of almost 20 players since this time last year. With Yogi bringing in 8 or 9 of these - plus Zemmama and Benji returning.

There will be a smaller number signed this summer so Yogi will need to get it right, and get the team performing and producing from the off.

A repeat of the current form and he'll not see Christmas.

bingo70
18-04-2010, 04:59 PM
There has been a turnover of almost 20 players since this time last year. With Yogi bringing in 8 or 9 of these - plus Zemmama and Benji returning.

There will be a smaller number signed this summer so Yogi will need to get it right, and get the team performing and producing from the off.

A repeat of the current form and he'll not see Christmas.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that, we'd be clear at the bottom of the league and there's no way anyone at the club would risk relegation.

That turnover of staff is ridiculous, it shouldn't be anything like that, thats why IMO we can't keep changing managers, we need some stability with the playing staff and you don't get that through chopping and changing managers regularly.

ahibby
18-04-2010, 05:04 PM
Fine words Bob. And IMO the para above is what divides the Happy Clappers from the Gloom and Doomers.

I'm very much hoping that Yogi proves me wrong and does indeed learn from his mistakes. As Mikey wrote earlier - why bring on Benji and go for 3-1? Cos he thinks he's smarter than he is. I don't think he does learn. Nothing he has done yet as Manager of Hibernian points to that, in fact the opposite.

Right now every other Club in the Division hopes that Yogi stays for next season and the season after that. And we're left hoping he turns into Super Manager with the addition of a RB, CH and a decent midfielder?

I think those positions you mention need to be filled but I expect a couple of forwards to be out of the door too and they must be replaced with better in atleast one case.

Feed McGraw
18-04-2010, 06:06 PM
get rid of him and bring in who???:confused:

Whether we get rid of him or he resigns or he goes off to live in a Monastery , there is always someone - and the way he`s going at the moment , probably someone who could do a bit better.

hibeedonald
18-04-2010, 06:17 PM
we'll still finish 4th not because were good, but motherwell and hearts are gash. motherwell have had 4 straight defeats. hearts... as long as we beat them at ER i think we'll come 4th.

snooky
18-04-2010, 06:28 PM
Jingle bells! :xwave
Realistically, he's probably go then if the 1st half of next season is like the 2nd half of this one.

basehibby
18-04-2010, 07:33 PM
He came in last June, if they are a poor bunch why didn't he address this last summer?

:rolleyes: - so you didn't notice the exits of AOB, DVZ, Chis and others? The arrivals of messers Stokes, Miller and McBride must also have escaped your attention!
That being the case you presumably have never heard of contracts either? That's the terms of employment between a player and a club which generally can't be terminated without substantial compensation being due to the player - thus meaning any club working within a budget cannot simply chop and change their squads at a whim but must attempt to steadily improve season by season.

Spike Mandela
18-04-2010, 08:24 PM
Give him 6 years. Let him build a team that challenges for relegation then survives on the last day of the season and he'll get his move to a bigger club.

Joking, I think.