why noone should vote for the tories

[AgentDaleCooper]

apart from my belief that real people would never vote for them anyway (:wink:), there's one really important thing to take into account - if they get in there is NO WAY they will reform the voting system. labour MIGHT, and would probably be forced into it by the lib dems in a coalition.

FPTP is the main thing standing in the way of a decent political culture in this country. its all-or-nothing nature means that the parties can no longer afford to be too different from each other, whilst spending most of their energy trying to make each other look **** rather than getting on with their job.

britain needs consensual politics so fking badly, the fact that cameron hasn't included total reform of the voting system is an achingly clear indication that he doesn't give a toss about 'a new politics' - he just wants to win the election for his toff chums.

[Beefster]

apart from my belief that real people would never vote for them anyway (:wink:), there's one really important thing to take into account - if they get in there is NO WAY they will reform the voting system. labour MIGHT, and would probably be forced into it by the lib dems in a coalition.

FPTP is the main thing standing in the way of a decent political culture in this country. its all-or-nothing nature means that the parties can no longer afford to be too different from each other, whilst spending most of their energy trying to make each other look **** rather than getting on with their job.

britain needs consensual politics so fking badly, the fact that cameron hasn't included total reform of the voting system is an achingly clear indication that he doesn't give a toss about 'a new politics' - he just wants to win the election for his toff chums.

I'm bored of this pish. Let's look at some of the Lib Dem front bench.

Nick Clegg - born into a family with Russian nobility in its ancestry, a rich banker for a father and educated at one of the top (and most expensive) private schools in the country.

Chris Huhne - educated at the same top private school as Clegg.

Ed Davey - private education.

Simon Hughes - private education.

Norman Lamb - went to boarding school.

David Laws - private education.

Sarah Teather - private education.

That's only a small subset. By all means, criticise their policies but this 'toff' stuff is just pure hypocrisy - all the parties have MPs of all classes.

If you want to look at how inclusive the parties are, look at how many non-white MPs or PPCs at their top target seats that the Lib Dems have. It won't take you long.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I'm bored of this pish. Let's look at some of the Lib Dem front bench.

Nick Clegg - born into a family with Russian nobility in its ancestry, a rich banker for a father and educated at one of the top (and most expensive) private schools in the country.

Chris Huhne - educated at the same top private school as Clegg.

Ed Davey - private education.

Simon Hughes - private education.

Norman Lamb - went to boarding school.

David Laws - private education.

Sarah Teather - private education.

That's only a small subset. By all means, criticise their policies but this 'toff' stuff is just pure hypocrisy - all the parties have MPs of all classes.

If you want to look at how inclusive the parties are, look at how many non-white MPs or PPCs at their top target seats that the Lib Dems have. It won't take you long.

So, the Tories are keen on PR then?

[BroxburnHibee]

YouTube - Same Old Tories: David Cameron mixes up his lines on discrimination (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mat6P2YggS8)

:greengrin

[Beefster]

So, the Tories are keen on PR then?

Only the Lib Dems, of the three main parties, are. Let's not kid ourselves though, there is self-interest in each parties position.

[matty_f]

Nobody should vote for the Tories as they have for years and years shown themselves to be nothing more than a shower of c*nts.

[lyonhibs]

Nobody should vote for the Tories as they have for years and years shown themselves to be nothing more than a shower of c*nts.

In a nutshell :agree:

Tories and Celtc fans - shower of c*nts!! :thumbsup:

[Beefster]

Nobody should vote for the Tories as they have for years and years shown themselves to be nothing more than a shower of c*nts.

At least the level of reasoning is improving.

[Leicester Fan]

If the Labour Party hadn't got rid of grammar schools then there wouldn't be so many public school boys in politics. Half of the govt cabinet also went to fee paying schools.

[Beefster]

If the Labour Party hadn't got rid of grammar schools then there wouldn't be so many public school boys in politics. Half of the govt cabinet also went to fee paying schools.

I'm fairly sure this is incorrect. Labour MPs are all working class heroes, who were brought up on council estates and attended state schools.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Only the Lib Dems, of the three main parties, are. Let's not kid ourselves though, there is self-interest in each parties position.

of course, but IMO PR is the only way to get ourselves out of this political hole britain has found itself in - it would open up politics to a much more diverse range of parties.

labour's only chance of remaining in power is a coalition with the lib dems, and there's no way they'll get that without major voting reform.

[One Day Soon]

of course, but IMO PR is the only way to get ourselves out of this political hole britain has found itself in - it would open up politics to a much more diverse range of parties.

labour's only chance of remaining in power is a coalition with the lib dems, and there's no way they'll get that without major voting reform.

You are falling into a trap when despairing of the politics of the UK and Scotland - assuming that the problem is the political system. It isn't. The problem is the people in politics.

We have STV for local government in Scotland now. That has broken down Labour's grip on many local authorities but it hasn't done anything for the quality of decision making, policy making and service delivery in Scotland. In fact you could argue that it has significantly degraded the quality of those things.

We now have a politics where very few 'normal' people want to get involved because a) it is a reviled profession b) the money relative to many other professions is crap and c) the electorate is heavily disengaged and uninterested.

It is a real chicken and egg situation but this will not improve unless more people get more informed and more involved. All electoral reform will do is leave the same kind of people in Parliament in different proportions. A good start would be to dramatically increase the number of women elected.

The other problem of course is the media. We have a media that is not interested in substance, it just wants to know who's up and who's down. Just watch Newsnicht Scotland any night to see that.

But then there is a line of argument which says that as an electorate we get the politicians that we deserve. We have been coasting on a diet of the likes of Forsyth, Cook, Rifkind, Smith, Salmond, Dewar, Kennedy and Brown for a good long while. Behind them, the quality looks an awful lot thinner.

[Beefster]

You are falling into a trap when despairing of the politics of the UK and Scotland - assuming that the problem is the political system. It isn't. The problem is the people in politics.

For the first time, I agree with you.

When the disillusionment is mainly created by the expenses scandal, I can't see how changing the electoral system is going to eradicate that apathy. There were Labour, Conservative, Lib Dems, SNP, Plaid, DUP, Sinn Fein etc MPs all caught with their hands in the cookie jar. No party was immune.

[One Day Soon]

For the first time, I agree with you.

When the disillusionment is mainly created by the expenses scandal, I can't see how changing the electoral system is going to eradicate that apathy. There were Labour, Conservative, Lib Dems, SNP, Plaid, DUP, Sinn Fein etc MPs all caught with their hands in the cookie jar. No party was immune.


Don't worry Beefster - agreeing with me will become a habit eventually!

As a matter of interest which public school did the poseur Clegg go to? Not Eton presumably?

[Beefster]

Don't worry Beefster - agreeing with me will become a habit eventually!

As a matter of interest which public school did the poseur Clegg go to? Not Eton presumably?

I'm sure it will!

Westminster.

[Betty Boop]

of course, but IMO PR is the only way to get ourselves out of this political hole britain has found itself in - it would open up politics to a much more diverse range of parties.

labour's only chance of remaining in power is a coalition with the lib dems, and there's no way they'll get that without major voting reform.



Labour and the Lib Dems are in favour of different systems though, Gordon Brown is in favour of the Alternative Voting System, whereas the Lib Dems favour the STV system. The Alternative Vote is a preferential system rather than proportional, however it is an improvement on FPTP.