What size of SPL would you prefer?

[Diclonius]

Well?

[Carheenlea]

2.

Rangers and Celtic can play "the greatest derby in the world" every week while the rest of us enjoy an 18 team 1st division.

[MWHIBBIES]

2

Hibs and Montrose:wink:

[Disc O'Dave]

Well?

Ideally, more than just Motherwell - that would get a bit boring. They would be champions the same season they got relegated.

I'll get my coat. :greengrin

Dave

[danhibees1875]

16 and a change back to the 'league' format for the league cup. :agree:

[Hibercelona]

18 teams with no split.

2 up and 2 down, with a play off between 3rd worst and 3rd best.

:drool:

[iwasthere1972]

18 team league with two up and two down. 34 matches each.

Bring back the "League" Cup consisting of 14 groups of 3 teams playing home and away with the top team from each league progressing to the last 16. The remaining two places would be awarded to the two "best" second placed teams. How "best" is defined would perhaps be topical.

Bring it on. :cool2:

[GreenCastle]

18 teams - play each other twice a season - one home - one away.

Crowds will rise :agree:

[iwasthere1972]

18 teams - play each other twice a season - one home - one away.

Crowds will rise :agree:

They're not allowed to. Got to remain in our seats. :wink:

[Sweep]

18 teams - play each other twice a season - one home - one away.

Crowds will rise :agree:

I aggree. :agree: :top marks

[Brooster]

18 team league with two up and two down. 34 matches each.

Bring back the "League" Cup consisting of 14 groups of 3 teams playing home and away with the top team from each league progressing to the last 16. The remaining two places would be awarded to the two "best" second placed teams. How "best" is defined would perhaps be topical.

Bring it on. :cool2:

All that was done away with because of the number of boring and meaningless games so no thanks.

[Geo_1875]

So you prefer "excitement" to fairness? Sorry, give me home and away against a reasonable number of teams and I'll enjoy my football just as much. Why should the league be structured to protect the self interest of poorly run clubs? If their product doesn't sell they can find an appropriate market.

[NAE NOOKIE]

16 Teams.

Split to two leagues of 8 after 30 games. Its fair and not messy.

Its a lot of games ( 44 ) but teams in the Championship in Engerland play 46 league matches, not to mention play offs, FA cup and League cup.

Clubs who are in Europe could be given the option to field weakened teams in the first two rounds of the League Cup if the want to.

2 relegated automatically and 3rd bottom SPL plays 3rd top in the 1st division for survival or promotion at a decent sized neutral venue. Lets say 20,000 capacity Easter Road.

With the extra matches the teams will have, top price for a ticket could be set at 23 quid for Cat A and 18 quid for cat B.

:rolleyes:

[Phil D. Rolls]

16 and a change back to the 'league' format for the league cup. :agree:


18 team league with two up and two down. 34 matches each.

Bring back the "League" Cup consisting of 14 groups of 3 teams playing home and away with the top team from each league progressing to the last 16. The remaining two places would be awarded to the two "best" second placed teams. How "best" is defined would perhaps be topical.

Bring it on. :cool2:

Have to say the league format wasn't popular. I thought the way they worked it when we won in 91 was good. Getting all the ties over with quickly, keeps interest and excitement going.

How we ever ended up with a final in March is beyond me. No doubt it was something the OF wanted.

[offshorehibby]

I've went with 16 only because looking at the current 1st division only the current top 4 look capable of holding their own. Any of the rest would just be cannon fodder. If we went with a 16/18 what would be the proposal for the lower leagues.

This could also be the time to reconstruct the whole Scottish set up. Hibs and Dundee utd did show an interest in entering a second team into the lower leagues.

[--------]

So you prefer "excitement" to fairness? Sorry, give me home and away against a reasonable number of teams and I'll enjoy my football just as much. Why should the league be structured to protect the self interest of poorly run clubs? If their product doesn't sell they can find an appropriate market.


Re-structuring the League won't automatically improve things. If the clubs think it will, they're still living in the Emerald City, capital of the great State of Denial, in the United States of Cloud-Cuckoo Land.

The clubs have to sort themselves out in a radical way, IMO.

They need to put their finances in order and learn to live within their means.

They have to put their stadiums in order, and start providing the fans (who are the paying customers, after all) with the entertainment and services they're looking for.

They need to sort out the TV coverage - the MacBeeb and StupidTV have proved over and over again that they can't cover major football matches in even a minimally professional manner.

(Actually, they find it very difficult to cover ANY sporting occasion competently. How much this is down to budget constraints imposed in London in the case of MacBeeb, and nepotism and simple incapacity among the folks running things both at MacBeeb and StupidTV, I'm not sure. I just know that the product is usually dreadful.)

And the football authorities need to sort out the product on the park - Scottish football must be just about the least attractive form of the game played anywhere in Europe right now. The ball-players we do have tend to get kicked to bits (e.g. Zouma?); we seem to find it very hard to develop young talent (though that may finally be improving); the pitches are very poor quality; and the refereeing standards are abysmal.

[TheEastTerrace]

Re-structuring the League won't automatically improve things. If the clubs think it will, they're still living in the Emerald City, capital of the great State of Denial, in the United States of Cloud-Cuckoo Land.

The clubs have to sort themselves out in a radical way, IMO.

They need to put their finances in order and learn to live within their means.

They have to put their stadiums in order, and start providing the fans (who are the paying customers, after all) with the entertainment and services they're looking for.

They need to sort out the TV coverage - the MacBeeb and StupidTV have proved over and over again that they can't cover major football matches in even a minimally professional manner.

(Actually, they find it very difficult to cover ANY sporting occasion competently. How much this is down to budget constraints imposed in London in the case of MacBeeb, and nepotism and simple incapacity among the folks running things both at MacBeeb and StupidTV, I'm not sure. I just know that the product is usually dreadful.)

And the football authorities need to sort out the product on the park - Scottish football must be just about the least attractive form of the game played anywhere in Europe right now. The ball-players we do have tend to get kicked to bits (e.g. Zouma?); we seem to find it very hard to develop young talent (though that may finally be improving); the pitches are very poor quality; and the refereeing standards are abysmal.

Doddie :top marks

Just about the most refreshing post I've read on here about the restructure.

The structure of the league is not the problem with the SPL, and for the life of me, cannot see how adding more teams of lower standard will make the league more exciting. I reiterate what I've said to my mates....Queen of the South vs Hibs middle of winter, 20 notes plus for a ticket....aye, that will be bloody right.

There has to be a wholesale review of Scottish football - administrators, youth development, TV rights, sponsorship, opportunities that could come with summer football, the truly awful playing standards, stadium facilities/pitches, club finances/debt, refereeing, treatment of fans as paying customers (if they want to be a business, then let's start treating them as businesses and make them accountable), player culture (including the drinking culture), professionalism of the players....I could go on.

I repeat what I said on another thread the other day; this country's top league is dying, or may already be past the point of no recovery, and is fast becoming a backwater of European football. Yet, the SFA, SPL, SFL, club chairmen and directors, seem inept in identifying the problems and radically overhauling the game. The fans need to unite together and bring about change, starting with hitting them where it hurts, in their pocket.

[soupy]

:top marks:top marks
18 teams with no split.

2 up and 2 down, with a play off between 3rd worst and 3rd best.

:drool:

[green.and.white]

18 teams - play each other twice a season - one home - one away.

Crowds will rise :agree:

Disagree, who will turn up to watch Hamilton vs Ayr United? There will be too many matches like that, nobody will care, IMHO the split is better than going back to play each team twice because the at least the matches at the end of the season will still mean something and the teams fighting for europe/survival will be playing each other, making it more exciting.

They have the problem in the EPL that by February, teams like Sunderland are safe and that is all they care about, they have no expectations and matches after this time are pointless and there are smaller crowds (this will be what happens to Killlie and Aberdeen etc.) They are trying to change their set up to make all games matter, why are we lagging behind the EPL in making our league as uneventful as theirs?

[PatHead]

Who will turn up to watch Hamilton Ayr anyway? Lets be honest not many folk are turning up to watch Celtic Hibs now. Wonder how much of that was due to Sky being live at Parkhead? Affects all of the other teams when they are at home.

Something definately needs done. I would like summer football with an 18 team league.

[Hainan Hibs]

I'd like an 18 team league, 2 up and down with a play off between the 3d bottom team in the Premier league and 3rd team in the 1st division. Also bring back the league structure in the League Cup.

However, for Scottish football to improve I feel it needs to collapse in on it's self (i ken that doesn't make much sense:greengrin). No one is going to pay over £20 for pish football no matter what the format of the league is.

I wish we could get a clean slate to work off of. Revise everything in Scottish football, youth development. the number of governing bodies etc. Only then can we see any real chance of Scottish football moving to a new level.

[green.and.white]

Who will turn up to watch Hamilton Ayr anyway? Lets be honest not many folk are turning up to watch Celtic Hibs now. Wonder how much of that was due to Sky being live at Parkhead? Affects all of the other teams when they are at home.

Something definately needs done. I would like summer football with an 18 team league.

It sounds like you are trying to disagree with me but you are basically making the same point as i did :confused:

[Cool_Hand_Luke]

Disagree, who will turn up to watch Hamilton vs Ayr United?

Hamilton fans might...and possibly some Ayr United fans :dunno: :greengrin

[resident_Arab]

12 team as it is now.


18 team is/was absolutely woeful, a lot worse than the current set up, led to all time low crowds (current crowds are actually excellent in comparison), the change was the best thing that happened.

would be the worst thing that could happen to go back down that route.

[cwilliamson85]

18 play each other home and away once and get teh split to ****!

bring in play offs aswell

[sesoim]

I'd like an 18 team league, 2 up and down with a play off between the 3d bottom team in the Premier league and 3rd team in the 1st division. Also bring back the league structure in the League Cup.

However, for Scottish football to improve I feel it needs to collapse in on it's self (i ken that doesn't make much sense:greengrin). No one is going to pay over £20 for pish football no matter what the format of the league is.

I wish we could get a clean slate to work off of. Revise everything in Scottish football, youth development. the number of governing bodies etc. Only then can we see any real chance of Scottish football moving to a new level.



:agree: If tickets were a tenner like they should be, crowds would go up again. An 18 team League would certainly help rekindle interest, as playing the Old Firm less would give us all a better chance of catching them, and I think fans would rather watch us playing 17 different teams and (hopefully) winning more games.

[SidBurns]

Went for 18 in the following structure:-


SPL - 18 teams - 2 down, 3rd bottom playoff
SPL 2 - 18 teams - 2 down, 3rd top playoff - might be hard to sort out North/South Divide
North Division - 16 teams
South Division - 16 teams
Junior/Senior - 16 teams (remaining teams)
Amateur - various

[IberianHibernian]

2 main points : Changing number of teams won`t guarantee improvement - more needs to be done to improve skills of players . There is too much football at present - players are jaded physically and mentally , pitches are terrible , fans are bored ( especially as there is too much football on telly and that`s not going to change for a few years ) .
But teams playing each other 3 or 4 teams in league is too many in a small country where teams are liable to meet in cups again . Edinburgh Derby would be great if it was still say last Saturday of August and New Year`s Day both with 3 pm kick offs . I`ve great memories of League Cup group matches ( any older fans remember a 4-0 thrashing of Aberdeen at Holy Ground to qualify for QF in about 1970 ? or that we qualified as second of group when we won LC in 1972 , only year that 2nd qualified I think ) but think it`d be a mistake to return to that . But LC should be with final before Christmas and SC as cup competition from January to April / May ( Early May - we lost 1972 final on 6th May ) .
It`s now very difficult to organise competitions since Europa League and CL qualifiers start in July and Scottish clubs usually play clubs from northern Europe where leagues play in summer . An 18-club league would mean 34 games ( all played on Saturday at 3 pm except one weekly TV match at other time - Sunday / Monday for Europa League teams with Thursday matches ) so clubs might complain about lost revenue or try to justify higher season ticket prices but reality is that Scotland is too small a country to justify having a league with all full - time players in all clubs ( is there much / anything to suggest in our team that players have to be full -time ? ). So I`d like to see 18 - team SPL with no public matches from May to July . We would lose 4 home matches but think we would win with fans more enthusiastic about buying tickets ( seasons and walk up ) and obviously clubs would have to look for other ways to make money apart from football - markets , other sports , cultural events etc etc .

[ForeverHibs93]

18: one home, one away:agree:

[seanraff07]

18 or 20 like the Prem, simply just play each time team home and away once, none of this playing the same team 3 or 4 times a season then splitting it into two halves pish.:grr:

[Silversand]

I like the derby too much, so I vote 16 to ensure that the Yams don't get relegated.

:thumbsup:

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

There is probably no obvious fix to our game. But I'd go for 2 leagues of 18 with a pyramid system like they have in England, so that teams from out with Scottish League, like Irvine Meadow could end up in the Scottish League.

There is NO doubt that many Junior clubs, or those like Whitehill Welfare etc could bring more to our league than many of the current 3rd division clubs, they're also has to be relegation from the bottom league or otherwise what is the point of having a bottom league.

[green.and.white]

Hamilton fans might...and possibly some Ayr United fans :dunno: :greengrin

Yes very funny :greengrin

[blairwallace]

5!
the old firm
hibs and ****
and dundee united
cause every other match is bollocks! :wink:

[Leith Green]

An 18 team league would mean a 34 game league, means league cup games could be played on a saturday would probably give both a real boost! Such a simple thing would work wonders in my opinion..

[sparkiehibs]

Change all the 4 leagues to 16 teams (play each other twice = 32 games)
Remove Split and add in Play-Offs (Semi and Final)
See Below


SPL

1. CHAMPION
2. CHAMPIONS LEAGUE
3. EUROPA LEAGUE

4. MIDTABLE
5. MIDTABLE
6. MIDTABLE
7. MIDTABLE
8. MIDTABLE
9. MIDTABLE
10. MIDTABLE
11. MIDTABLE
12. MIDTABLE
13. MIDTABLE

14. RELEGATED
15. RELEGATED
16. RELEGATED

1st, 2nd & 3rd Division

1. CHAMPION
2. PROMOTION

3. PLAYOFF FOR PROMOTION PLACE
4. PLAYOFF FOR PROMOTION PLACE
5. PLAYOFF FOR PROMOTION PLACE
6. PLAYOFF FOR PROMOTION PLACE

7. MIDTABLE
8. MIDTABLE
9. MIDTABLE
10. MIDTABLE
11. MIDTABLE
12. MIDTABLE
13. MIDTABLE

14. RELEGATION
15. RELEGATION
16. RELEGATION

[Jim Herriot]

16 SPL (2 down)
16 SFL (2 up, 3 down)
16 North, 16 West, 16 East (1 up from each)

SPL - 12 from SPL + 4 from div 1
rangers, celtic, hearts, aberdeen, dundee utd, hibernian, motherwell, kilmarnock, hamilton, falkirk, st mirren, inverness ct, st johnstone, partick thistle, dunfermline, dundee

SFL - 5 from div 1 + all of div 2 + cowdenbeath
queen of the south, greenock morton, ross county, airdrie utd, clyde, raith rovers, ayr utd, brechin city, peterhead, stirling albion, east fife, arbroath, alloa, queens park, stranraer, cowdenbeath

EAST - livingston + 3 from div 3 + 6 from east of scotland premier + 6 from SFJA East Region Super League
livingston, east stirling, stenhousemuir, berwick r, whitehill welfare, spartans, lothian thistle, civil service strollers, tynecastle, edinburgh city, bonnyrigg rose, camelon, linlithgow rose, kelty hearts, bo'ness utd, forfar west end

WEST - 3 from div 3 + 4 from South of Scotland League + 9 from SJFA West Region Superleague
dumbarton, annan, albion rovers, threave rovers, dalbeattie star, wigtown, st cuthbert wanderers, auchinleck talbot, beith, arthurlie, pollock, largs thistle, petershill, kilbirnie ladeside, kirkintilloch rob roy, irvine meadow

NORTH - 3 from div 3 + 7 from Highland League + 6 from SJFA North Superleague
montrose, forfar, elgin city, cove rangers, deveronvale, inverurie loco works, keith, wick academy, buckie thistle, fraserburgh, banks o'dee, sunnybank, culter, dyce juniors, banchory st ternan, longside

posted before on http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?164186-A-new-Scottish-League-Format&p=2210596&highlight=#post2210596

[Bobo]

An 18 team league would mean a 34 game league, means league cup games could be played on a saturday would probably give both a real boost! Such a simple thing would work wonders in my opinion..

Think the majority of supporters from most teams would agree with this and the merits that it would bring.

Unfortunately the tail has been wagging the dog of Scottish football for far too long now...too many beaks and not enough brains!

We have 3 governing bodies (SFA, SPL & SFL) :bitchy: no wonder the game in Scotland is such a bureaucratic mess.

[jgl07]

Have to say the league format wasn't popular. I thought the way they worked it when we won in 91 was good. Getting all the ties over with quickly, keeps interest and excitement going.

How we ever ended up with a final in March is beyond me. No doubt it was something the OF wanted.
It's because of European competition. Since the qualifying and group stages in the Champions League and the Europa League take up most mid-week slots, it is not possible to schedule the League Cup as it was in the 1990s.

[cad]

I want a league that you play each other twice . 18 would do nice
I want a league without Celtic and Rangers and the baggage that comes with them
I want a league whos purpose is to promote Scottish football not line the pockets of the Old Firm
I want a league with 1 governing body
I want a league where the suits are no more
I want a league where Weegie bias isnt the norm
I want a league thats for summer football

And I want it now .:grr:

[PeeJay]

Seems to me that the problem with the SPL is that it is geared to boosting the finances of the big teams (the OF in particular) with teams paying each other 4 times (where else does anything so stupid happen?), plus the monstrously dumb split (where else does that happen?) and, finally enhancing the tv viewer's enjoyment.

Well I don't care much for boosting the coffers of the OF, the split is beyond my comprehension and I don't think SPL football should be primarily geared to tv fans: it should be geared to the fans who turn up at the stadiums - so no more 12:00 Sunday kick offs just so the tv can squeeze in "more important games" in the prime slots! Less football on the telly, more fans through the turnstiles.

18 teams - two up - two down!

[down-the-slope]

18 playing twice....2 up 2 down..play off for 3rd bottom / 3rd top 1st Div

36 couple less games...give Scottish Cup its old priority

League cup for U21's only to develop youngsters and leave space for Top teams Euro games

season from July to Mid May with After festive season break (not because of weather but to recharge batteries) allows better prep for 4/5 teams in Euros (so they have played real games in league before Euros helping our teams do better

[Lofarl]

Tv coverage has ruined football in this country.

16-18 team League seems ok. But who will take Rangers and Hearts place when they go bust?

[Wilbur]

18 teams with no split.

2 up and 2 down, with a play off between 3rd worst and 3rd best.

:drool:

Spot on there.

[francobaresi]

20 teams & spread what wealth there is left in our game; get some decent away trips to boot...:greengrin

GGTTH

[Spike Mandela]

Poll result is pretty convincing and a view that is likely shared by most football fans of all teams who regularly attend games.

Probably the least likely to be accepted by the powers that be. Ever get the feeling that teams actually don't give a **** about their supporters.

[hibsdaft70]

[QUOTE=IberianHibernian;2431456]2 main points : Changing number of teams won`t guarantee improvement - more needs to be done to improve skills of players . QUOTE]

I think the issue with teams playing young players by choice is down to fear. With only a 12 team league a string of bad results can see you plummit quickly to the wrong end of the table (Unless you have a fantastic first half of the season !!Sound familar?) Managers need to win games and dont feel that they can bring young players through in any large number. Look at how much Rangers moaned like a bitch when they had to field under 21 players on the bench. Hibs and maybe Dundee United are two of the few who regularly filed young player from their academies. I think that managers have a problem in saying" Go out and enjoy yourself son, express yourself". What they talk about is "good engines, commitment,keep it tight" in other words - Dont Lose!.

A bigger league would allow teams to try a few things out, field young players and let them show their skill. Chairmen are reluctant to give up two home games to the OF and the ****bos but gone are the days when the Ugly Sisters coming through from the Weeg meant a sellout crowd, people are bored with 4 games a season, it's no longer a big game cos it happens so often. I think meeting teams twice a season will make things a bit different and bring the crowds.

18 team league would suit me.