When is a Bus Lane NOT a Bus Lane?

[MB62]

Not a joke unfortunately, there's no punch line (although sometimes a punch is exactly what is required :wink:).

Almost every day without fail, I see drivers with obviously no idea when to use bus lanes, and this morning was no exception.
I hate drivers who ignore bus lanes, using them as a means to jump traffic queues because they seem to be in more of a hurry than anybody apparently.

However, equally it annoys me when I see drivers not using them when they are not in operation, then cutting in right in front of you as they are caught in the wrong lane, as happened to me yet again this morning.

Every single bus lane has a road sing at the start of the lane to indicate the times of when this should be used for buses, taxis and bikes. The vast majority of them start from 7.30AM and end at 9.30AM and start again at 4.00PM and end at 6.30PM. There are some that are priority lanes right throughout the day from 7.30am to 6.30pm and these will also be in operation on a Saturday too.

This morning about 6.15AM, I'm sitting as usual at the traffic lights opposition St James Centre heading up to the Bridges. There's the car in the outside lane, the lights change and we both head up the road with me in what would be a bus lane in another hour and 15 minutes but at this time of the day, it's another lane on the road. We approach the top of Leith Street where the bus lane now officially ends no matter what time of day it is. This chap, who happens to be a fellow Hibby, spotted by his wee Hibs scarf car sticker on his back window, speeds up, cuts right in front of me and nearly slices the front of my car in two. Obviously this guy has NO IDEA that he could have been in the same lane as me from the start. Even despite this though, there was hardly another car on the road at this time of the morning, he could easily have dropped his speed and fell in behind me but decided he wanted to be Fernando Alonso.
Maybe I shouldn't be surprised or even harsh on my fellow Hibby for this action as I have even seen a good few police cars doing something similar, if they don't know the rules of the road what chance does anybody else have?

But just in case you have stuck with this to the end, can I ask all drivers to maybe pay a bit more attention to these things and be aware that, just because there is big green lanes around the city, they are only priority lanes DURING THE TIMES STATED on the road side boards at the start of each lane.

Sorry for the rant folks, I was just a bit p155ed off this morning again.

[McSwanky]

Not a joke unfortunately, there's no punch line (although sometimes a punch is exactly what is required :wink:).

Almost every day without fail, I see drivers with obviously no idea when to use bus lanes, and this morning was no exception.
I hate drivers who ignore bus lanes, using them as a means to jump traffic queues because they seem to be in more of a hurry than anybody apparently.

However, equally it annoys me when I see drivers not using them when they are not in operation, then cutting in right in front of you as they are caught in the wrong lane, as happened to me yet again this morning.

Every single bus lane has a road sing at the start of the lane to indicate the times of when this should be used for buses, taxis and bikes. The vast majority of them start from 7.30AM and end at 9.30AM and start again at 4.00PM and end at 6.30PM. There are some that are priority lanes right throughout the day from 7.30am to 6.30pm and these will also be in operation on a Saturday too.

This morning about 6.15AM, I'm sitting as usual at the traffic lights opposition St James Centre heading up to the Bridges. There's the car in the outside lane, the lights change and we both head up the road with me in what would be a bus lane in another hour and 15 minutes but at this time of the day, it's another lane on the road. We approach the top of Leith Street where the bus lane now officially ends no matter what time of day it is. This chap, who happens to be a fellow Hibby, spotted by his wee Hibs scarf car sticker on his back window, speeds up, cuts right in front of me and nearly slices the front of my car in two. Obviously this guy has NO IDEA that he could have been in the same lane as me from the start. Even despite this though, there was hardly another car on the road at this time of the morning, he could easily have dropped his sped and fell in behind me but decided he wanted to be Fernando Alonso.
Maybe I shouldn't be surprised or even harsh on my fellow Hibby for this action as I have even seen a good few police cars doing something similar, if they don't know the rules of the road what chance does anybody else have?

But chance in case you have stuck with this to the end, can I ask all drivers to maybe pay a bit more attention these things and be aware that, just because there is big green lanes around the city, they are only priority lanes DURING THE TIMES STATED on the road side boards at the start of each lane.

Sorry for the rant folks, I was just a bit p155ed off this morning again.

Egg zackery. It's not flamin' difficult, people... read the signs!

Having said that, I do enjoy slicing my way through the weekend traffic because people can't be bothered to check the signs and insist on queueing in the right hand lane on Milton Road. You'd think they'd learn, but I'm not complaining about that one!

[J-C]

This is exactly what happened to the taxi driver on friday morning around 10.10am. A car didi a left turn from the right hand lane into Downie Ter, taxi swerved hit the car then a road sign and ended up on it's side, lucky driver and 2 passengers unhurt.

My big problem is when driving myself in my own car, forgetting I'm not driving the taxi and start driving along the lane during the allotted times, force of habit.

An excellent example of driver not paying attention was yesterday at around 11.30am. Tree's were grtting cut at the junction of St John's rd and Clermiston Rd and temp light were up causing a wee bit of a traffic jam.This was due to the fact the majority of drivers haven't a clue about lanes the traffic was tailed back to well past the David Lloyd at Glasgow Rd, needless to say they were all in the outside lane with the inner lane completely empty, all the way along Corstorphine, just amazing.

[SlickShoes]

I recently moved to glasgow and started doing my usual of driving in the bus lanes outwith the alotted bus lane times. Only then did my Mrs ask me what i was doing, i was happy to say that i was skipping queues and bypassing the idiots that didnt know about the bus lanes different times of operation.

She then pointed out that in glasgow you cant drive in them at any time DOH!

So you do get a lot of people from areas that dont allow anyone to drive in bus lanes other than busses or taxis and they will probably out of habit not go in them.

Luckily i stopped driving in glasgows bus lanes and have seen a few folk stopped by the police for it recently.

[MB62]

Egg zackery. It's not flamin' difficult, people... read the signs!

Having said that, I do enjoy slicing my way through the weekend traffic because people can't be bothered to check the signs and insist on queueing in the right hand lane on Milton Road. You'd think they'd learn, but I'm not complaining about that one!

Amazing isn't it? Then you get the odd tube staring daggers at you for you doing this, and all because they are clueless.

[Andy74]

This is exactly what happened to the taxi driver on friday morning around 10.10am. A car didi a left turn from the right hand lane into Downie Ter, taxi swerved hit the car then a road sign and ended up on it's side, lucky driver and 2 passengers unhurt.

My big problem is when driving myself in my own car, forgetting I'm not driving the taxi and start driving along the lane during the allotted times, force of habit.

An excellent example of driver not paying attention was yesterday at around 11.30am. Tree's were grtting cut at the junction of St John's rd and Clermiston Rd and temp light were up causing a wee bit of a traffic jam.This was due to the fact the majority of drivers haven't a clue about lanes the traffic was tailed back to well past the David Lloyd at Glasgow Rd, needless to say they were all in the outside lane with the inner lane completely empty, all the way along Corstorphine, just amazing.

So, you drive up them in your car out of force of habit, others stay out of them at all times due to force of habit! That's the way it goes.

[Removed]

This morning about 6.15AM, I'm sitting as usual at the traffic lights opposition St James Centre heading up to the Bridges. There's the car in the outside lane, the lights change and we both head up the road with me in what would be a bus lane in another hour and 15 minutes but at this time of the day, it's another lane on the road. We approach the top of Leith Street where the bus lane now officially ends no matter what time of day it is. This chap, who happens to be a fellow Hibby, spotted by his wee Hibs scarf car sticker on his back window, speeds up, cuts right in front of me and nearly slices the front of my car in two. Obviously this guy has NO IDEA that he could have been in the same lane as me from the start. Even despite this though, there was hardly another car on the road at this time of the morning, he could easily have dropped his speed and fell in behind me but decided he wanted to be Fernando Alonso.


:hmmm: BMW driver

Agree with the rant though :agree:

[Hainan Hibs]

Oh no, another "look at me, perfect driver" thread:greengrin

[speedy_gonzales]

needless to say they were all in the outside lane with the inner lane completely empty, all the way along Corstorphine, just amazing.

Unfortunately, between Manse Rd and Clermiston Rd there is only 1 lane available to traffic, but some road users insist on squeezing up the inside, resulting in wing mirrors being smacked out of position.

[Jack]

I recently moved to glasgow and started doing my usual of driving in the bus lanes outwith the alotted bus lane times. Only then did my Mrs ask me what i was doing, i was happy to say that i was skipping queues and bypassing the idiots that didnt know about the bus lanes different times of operation.

She then pointed out that in glasgow you cant drive in them at any time DOH!

So you do get a lot of people from areas that dont allow anyone to drive in bus lanes other than busses or taxis and they will probably out of habit not go in them.

Luckily i stopped driving in glasgows bus lanes and have seen a few folk stopped by the police for it recently.

If there was consistency (and maybe even simplicity) with road signs and markings, particularly bus lanes, then maybe this would be less of a issue.

All to often these days things, all sorts of things, are made over complicated where a simple solution is often available.

While we’re talking about bus lanes … what about the one in Bread Street that means traffic coming from the Castle direction cannot turn right towards Lothian Road? Anyone any idea the last time a service bus used that piece of road? (I say service bus because during the Tattoo coaches use it to ferry the performers home.) I think it was about 5 years ago before the 35 was re-routed.

[Peevemor]

Unfortunately, between Manse Rd and Clermiston Rd there is only 1 lane available to traffic, but some road users insist on squeezing up the inside, resulting in wing mirrors being smacked out of position.

Ariba! Ariba! :greengrin

[J-C]

Unfortunately, between Manse Rd and Clermiston Rd there is only 1 lane available to traffic, but some road users insist on squeezing up the inside, resulting in wing mirrors being smacked out of position.

I know that but was obviously meaning all along the route where the bus lane is, after saying that though if the drivers knew how to drive, there's plenty of foom at Manse Rd for 2 lanes of vehicles, unless a bus is there.

There are 2 lanes at the lights at Clermiston Rd, one for turning right and another for going straight.

[J-C]

So, you drive up them in your car out of force of habit, others stay out of them at all times due to force of habit! That's the way it goes.


Erm, no I initially start to drive up them ocassionally, once in a blue moon, a bit different. The lanes are only used as a priority during the times stated, which means that between 9.30am and 4pm they are normal lanes, how do people not realise this and when there is a wee build up in traffic, it's exagerated due to the fact that only one lane is being used.

Habit has nothing to do with it, ignorance by other drivers who don't read road signs. Next time you drive up a bus lane outwith the times, look at the other drivers and I'll bet some will be shaking their heads at you as if you were doing something wrong.

[J-C]

If there was consistency (and maybe even simplicity) with road signs and markings, particularly bus lanes, then maybe this would be less of a issue.

All to often these days things, all sorts of things, are made over complicated where a simple solution is often available.

While we’re talking about bus lanes … what about the one in Bread Street that means traffic coming from the Castle direction cannot turn right towards Lothian Road? Anyone any idea the last time a service bus used that piece of road? (I say service bus because during the Tattoo coaches use it to ferry the performers home.) I think it was about 5 years ago before the 35 was re-routed.


Not for a while seeing that no buses go that way now, all go up Lothian Rd.

There is consistency with signs and markings, they have bit huge blue ones with the times of when the lane is in use on the side of the road every couple of hundred yards, not too complicated.


What about in the town centre when a road is only for buses,taxi's and bikes, it is clearly marked with 2 large no entry signs but people still enter these roads......since when did you just start ignoring no entry signs, that would fail your driving test immediately.

[MB62]

Oh no, another "look at me, perfect driver" thread:greengrin

Nah, more of a 'how the f*** did you pass your test when you obviously have no idea how to read a road sign' thread.

I really do object to somebody trying to run me off the road because they are clueless :grr:

[Jack]

There's inconsistency around the country as far as bus lanes are concerned, as stated previously, Glasgow and Edinburgh are different and lets not get started with the dos and don’ts with the different types of London bus lanes! Red bus lanes, greenways, greenways that are greenways but aren’t painted green!

There's inconsistency with all things Blue Badge around the country.

There's inconsistency with yellow lines, double yellow lines, even triple yellow lines, red lines and I’m sure I saw green lines somewhere a couple of years ago!

Some roundabouts don’t look like roundabouts and there are roundabouts where it doesn’t look as though there are roundabouts! There are some that seem to get changed from one to the other and back again with the weather!

The daftyness of having two ‘straight ahead’ lanes at traffic lights but only one lane 20 yards down the road!

Hard shoulders, down south, where you are encouraged to use them at peak times. We are told at other times they are dangerous places; its imperative to keep them clear for emergency vehicles but when they are at their busiest, accidents most likely to happen, they're full of cars! WTF!



:greengrin :agree: :wink:

[Woody1985]

I'm a hopper. :greengrin

Here's how it goes for me.

Bus lane in operation

I will stay in the appropriate lane majority of the time.

If I need to turn left at the end of the bus lane I will stay in the correct lane until I reach what I deem as an appropriate position to enter into the bus lane. E.g. If the bus lane is huge then I'll tend to wait until the last 100 metres or so before moving in.

If I'm in a hurry that will cause me to miss an appointment and the traffic is completely jammed I will do a quick 'polis check' and go in the bus lane. I do not do this to get to work (most of the time I can't drive anyway to due massive parking fees and generally being forced out of my car in Edinburgh).

Bus lane not in operation

I will scan the bus lane, if there are parked cars in the lane (usually legally) then I will stay in the right hand lane. I'm not fannying around jumping left to right, left to right for parked cars.

If I'm not in a hurry and most of the cars are in the right lane I will amble along in the right lane to prevent any other drivers pulling into the left lane without looking and taking me out.

If I'm rushed I will use the bus lane if it is clear, getting the looks mentioned above, whilst giving the 'What the **** are you looking at ya prick' look back.

I'll also occasionally make my bus lane decision based on the state of the road, the roads near the kerb in bus lanes are usually covered in pot holes with the weight of the buses. I've got an MR2 which has quite a hard suspension and it doesn't make for a good drive to be going over potholes.

[Teo10]

Not for a while seeing that no buses go that way now, all go up Lothian Rd.

There is consistency with signs and markings, they have bit huge blue ones with the times of when the lane is in use on the side of the road every couple of hundred yards, not too complicated.


What about in the town centre when a road is only for buses,taxi's and bikes, it is clearly marked with 2 large no entry signs but people still enter these roads......since when did you just start ignoring no entry signs, that would fail your driving test immediately.

This does my nut in!

When your at the bottom of Lothian Road at the lights at Frasers, Opposite the Hudson Hotel, there is a road that CLEARLY states no entry and that it is only for Taxi's etc so your just minding your business driving along and all of a sudden have to pull and emergecy stop because some idiot turns left down that street. I just about crashed doing this the other day and tooted my horn at the driver who then proceeded to shout at me and tell me to learn to drive?! when HE was the one trying to go down a road that car's arent allowed.....:crazy::crazy:

[Ants]

When its a Greenway.

Cooncil pages give the ultimate definitions:-

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/CEC/CityDevelopment/TransportandTravel/Parking/GreenwaysandBusLanes/Greenways_And_Bus_Lanes.html

Where are the Greenways?

A8 Glasgow Road – Maybury to Princes Street

A900 Leith Walk – Leith to Princes Street

A702 Lothian Road – Leven Street to Princes Street

A70 Slateford Road – Inglis Green Road to Haymarket

A71 Calder Road – City Bypass to Ardmillan

[lapsedhibee]

There's inconsistency around the country as far as bus lanes are concerned, as stated previously, Glasgow and Edinburgh are different and lets not get started with the dos and don’ts with the different types of London bus lanes! Red bus lanes, greenways, greenways that are greenways but aren’t painted green!

There's inconsistency with all things Blue Badge around the country.

There's inconsistency with yellow lines, double yellow lines, even triple yellow lines, red lines and I’m sure I saw green lines somewhere a couple of years ago!

Some roundabouts don’t look like roundabouts and there are roundabouts where it doesn’t look as though there are roundabouts! There are some that seem to get changed from one to the other and back again with the weather!

The daftyness of having two ‘straight ahead’ lanes at traffic lights but only one lane 20 yards down the road!

Hard shoulders, down south, where you are encouraged to use them at peak times. We are told at other times they are dangerous places; its imperative to keep them clear for emergency vehicles but when they are at their busiest, accidents most likely to happen, they're full of cars! WTF!



:greengrin :agree: :wink:

Correct. And for all the perfect drivers implying "read the signs, morons", I'd point out that if you took the time to carefully read every sign you pass while driving in city traffic you'd be a danger to yourself, pedestrians, cyclists, rickshaw drivers, tramworkers, etc.

Here's an excerpt from the Greenways and Bus Lanes (http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/CEC/CityDevelopment/TransportandTravel/Parking/GreenwaysandBusLanes/Greenways_And_Bus_Lanes.html#whencanIdrive) page on the Cooncil website:

"When can I drive in the bus lane?

The blue bus lane signs show the operational times. Most routes operate from 7.30 am
to 6.30 pm, Monday to Friday, and 8.30 am to 6.30 pm on Saturdays. The exception is
the stretch of the A8 Glasgow Road between Maybury and Haymarket, which only operates
during peak hours – between 7.30-9.30 am and 4.00-6.30 pm, Monday to Friday."

[Andy74]

Erm, no I initially start to drive up them ocassionally, once in a blue moon, a bit different. The lanes are only used as a priority during the times stated, which means that between 9.30am and 4pm they are normal lanes, how do people not realise this and when there is a wee build up in traffic, it's exagerated due to the fact that only one lane is being used.

Habit has nothing to do with it, ignorance by other drivers who don't read road signs. Next time you drive up a bus lane outwith the times, look at the other drivers and I'll bet some will be shaking their heads at you as if you were doing something wrong.

So when you start to drive up them I'm presuming you didn't read the road sign?

[Scouse Hibee]

Correct. And for all the perfect drivers implying "read the signs, morons", I'd point out that if you took the time to carefully read every sign you pass while driving in city traffic you'd be a danger to yourself, pedestrians, cyclists, rickshaw drivers, tramworkers, etc.

Here's an excerpt from the Greenways and Bus Lanes (http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/CEC/CityDevelopment/TransportandTravel/Parking/GreenwaysandBusLanes/Greenways_And_Bus_Lanes.html#whencanIdrive) page on the Cooncil website:

"When can I drive in the bus lane?

The blue bus lane signs show the operational times. Most routes operate from 7.30 am
to 6.30 pm, Monday to Friday, and 8.30 am to 6.30 pm on Saturdays. The exception is
the stretch of the A8 Glasgow Road between Maybury and Haymarket, which only operates
during peak hours – between 7.30-9.30 am and 4.00-6.30 pm, Monday to Friday."

The point is I'm sure a lot of people use the same route time and time again yet have still not realised that they can use the bus lanes. You don't have to read the sign every time you use the route.

On another note was in Liverpool last week where it seems that road signs are ignored completely in some areas.:grr:
The area where my parents live has several streets which have been designated one way with a NO ENTRY sign at one end of the street. The locals it appears have decided that they're not happy with the change so are completely ignoring the rules.

[MB62]

Correct. And for all the perfect drivers implying "read the signs, morons", I'd point out that if you took the time to carefully read every sign you pass while driving in city traffic you'd be a danger to yourself, pedestrians, cyclists, rickshaw drivers, tramworkers, etc.

Here's an excerpt from the Greenways and Bus Lanes (http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/CEC/CityDevelopment/TransportandTravel/Parking/GreenwaysandBusLanes/Greenways_And_Bus_Lanes.html#whencanIdrive) page on the Cooncil website:

"When can I drive in the bus lane?

The blue bus lane signs show the operational times. Most routes operate from 7.30 am
to 6.30 pm, Monday to Friday, and 8.30 am to 6.30 pm on Saturdays. The exception is
the stretch of the A8 Glasgow Road between Maybury and Haymarket, which only operates
during peak hours – between 7.30-9.30 am and 4.00-6.30 pm, Monday to Friday."

I can say with certainty that there are many more exceptions to this. In fact the exception would be more likely to be the other way around.

[lapsedhibee]

The point is I'm sure a lot of people use the same route time and time again yet have still not realised that they can use the bus lanes. You don't have to read the sign every time you use the route.


If you don't read the sign and the Cooncil decide to change the wording (I might be wholly wrong here, but I have a strong feeling that bus lanes used to cease at 9.15, not 9.30) you're ****ed. Same with parking rules - used to be 5.30 everywhere, now it's 6.30 centre city centre, and 5.30 not-so-centre city centre. Etc etc etc.

[lapsedhibee]

I can say with certainty that there are many more exceptions to this. In fact the exception would be more likely to be the other way around.

:agree: The cooncil contradicts itself on its own webpage. Not surprising that mere non-taxi driving mortals like wirsels can get confused.

[speedy_gonzales]

I can say with certainty that there are many more exceptions to this. In fact the exception would be more likely to be the other way around.
Last week I would have agreed with you but it looks like someone is going out and changing the signs. The stretch between Calder r-about and Hermiston park'n'ride(Heriot Watt) used to be 0700-0930/1600-1830 but they've recently changed it so that it is a greenway 0700-1830. I also noticed somehwere else like this but the location escapes me just now!

[J-C]

So when you start to drive up them I'm presuming you didn't read the road sign?


Are you deliberately trying to wind me up, or are you a bit dim.


I have stated before I drive a taxi so use bus lanes regularly 6 days a week, 7-8 hrs a day, occassionally when I drive in my own car I forget that I'm not driving the taxi during the rush hour times, this happens once in a blue moon and only for a split second. :confused:

[J-C]

Last week I would have agreed with you but it looks like someone is going out and changing the signs. The stretch between Calder r-about and Hermiston park'n'ride(Heriot Watt) used to be 0700-0930/1600-1830 but they've recently changed it so that it is a greenway 0700-1830. I also noticed somehwere else like this but the location escapes me just now!


Calder Rd has always been 0700-1800, also Inglis Green Rd, Shandwick Pl.

Glasgow Rd,St John's Rd, Leith St, Slateford Rd, Haymarket Ter, West Coates, Roseburn Ter, Corstorphine Rd, and Liberton Gds are all 0700-0930/1600-1830.

[danhibees1875]

When its a jar!!! oh wait, thats when is a door not a door.....

[BS44]

Calder Rd has always been 0700-1800, also Inglis Green Rd, Shandwick Pl.

Glasgow Rd,St John's Rd, Leith St, Slateford Rd, Haymarket Ter, West Coates, Roseburn Ter, Corstorphine Rd, and Liberton Gds are all 0700-0930/1600-1830.

Inglis Green Road bus lane is now a 24 hour bus lane, has been for a couple of months.

[Ants]

Ive noticed that the signs have been updated on the west end of Princes Street, there is now a tram on the blue sign...................... Bit premature!!

[Danderhall Hibs]

Nah, more of a 'how the f*** did you pass your test when you obviously have no idea how to read a road sign' thread.

I really do object to somebody trying to run me off the road because they are clueless :grr:

Slightly off topic but it's the same story at the "new" Sherrifhall roundabout. Since they added the new lane in folk have decided they can't be bothered to read the paint on the road that tells them which lane to go in and just pick a lane and ram their way out.

The number of times I've been tooted and that because I went in the correct lane is incredble. And it's not always been women either.

[J-C]

Inglis Green Road bus lane is now a 24 hour bus lane, has been for a couple of months.


Oh aye, forgeot about that one, haven't got a clue why it's 24hrs, it's not as if it's jumping with buses every day eh.

[speedy_gonzales]

Oh aye, forgeot about that one, haven't got a clue why it's 24hrs, it's not aas if it's jumping with buses every day eh.
My man on the inside says it was for safety, vehicles were quite rightly using it when not in operation and swinging out on to Slateford Road without adhering to the give-way!

[speedy_gonzales]

Calder Rd has always been 0700-1830,
Aye, agreed, but I was talking about the stretch west of the bypass towards Heriot Watt uni, that used to be, until very recently, 0700-0900/1600-1830. It has now been changed to reflect the same times as Calder Road, and from a little digging about on the Edinburgh Council Portal, I can't see a submitted application to change these times!

[J-C]

My man on the inside says it was for safety, vehicles were quite rightly using it when not in operation and swinging out on to Slateford Road without adhering to the give-way!


Which they still do, but I can see why they changed it though.

[Andy74]

Are you deliberately trying to wind me up, or are you a bit dim.


I have stated before I drive a taxi so use bus lanes regularly 6 days a week, 7-8 hrs a day, occassionally when I drive in my own car I forget that I'm not driving the taxi during the rush hour times, this happens once in a blue moon and only for a split second. :confused:

No, just looking for you to apply the same standards to yourself as you want from others, always being totally aware, reading all the road signs regardless of how used to the roads you are or not and all that.

Some others never drive in the bus lanes because they only drive at rush hour, probably been doing that for years and it might be difficult for them to be conditioned to actually read the sign for the times and then drive in the things?

[J-C]

No, just looking for you to apply the same standards to yourself as you want from others, always being totally aware, reading all the road signs regardless of how used to the roads you are or not and all that.

Some others never drive in the bus lanes because they only drive at rush hour, probably been doing that for years and it might be difficult for them to be conditioned to actually read the sign for the times and then drive in the things?


What a load of bull**** that is, what effing standards are you blethering about, I don't drive all the way along the greenways as you somehow seem to think, I'm talking about 10 or 20 yds, then realise I'm not driving a taxi. I drive in the greenways outwith the times on the big blue signs, because I'm allowed, if other drivers cannot be arsed or are too thick to read these numerous signs, then more fool them.

Driving only in rush hour has nothing whatsoever to do with them not using them outwith these times, being stupid probably has. These are the same drivers who feel it's ok to ignore no entry signs, no left or right turn signs and signs which tell them that only certain vehicles can enter said roads.

Don't get on yer bloody high horse with me, by trying to make out that occassionally when I drive my car I enter a greenway for a split second because I'm used to driving in them. I read signs on a regular basis and probably know nearly every one in Edinburgh, my standards are fairly high and I would expect every other driver on the road to have passed a test and understand the signs on the roads, for their own safety anyway.


I frnkly don't know what your agenda is here but I must admit I don't appreciate your underlying tones in your posts.:grr:

[Andy74]

What a load of bull**** that is, what effing standards are you blethering about, I don't drive all the way along the greenways as you somehow seem to think, I'm talking about 10 or 20 yds, then realise I'm not driving a taxi. I drive in the greenways outwith the times on the big blue signs, because I'm allowed, if other drivers cannot be arsed or are too thick to read these numerous signs, then more fool them.

Driving only in rush hour has nothing whatsoever to do with them not using them outwith these times, being stupid probably has. These are the same drivers who feel it's ok to ignore no entry signs, no left or right turn signs and signs which tell them that only certain vehicles can enter said roads.

Don't get on yer bloody high horse with me, by trying to make out that occassionally when I drive my car I enter a greenway for a split second because I'm used to driving in them. I read signs on a regular basis and probably know nearly every one in Edinburgh, my standards are fairly high and I would expect every other driver on the road to have passed a test and understand the signs on the roads, for their own safety anyway.


I frnkly don't know what your agenda is here but I must admit I don't appreciate your underlying tones in your posts.:grr:


Stop your havering, you ae having a go at drivers who don't really understand the bus lanes and don't seem to read the signs.

My point is that if you were a driver who was only ever going past these things during rush hour it's just second nature to stay out of them. Most probably don't even bother to look at the signs on a raod they drive every day becasue that's what they are used to.

You are the opposite, you are well used to driving up the lanes so occasionally you forget for a wee second and you drive up them. That's understandable, you do it so often that you don't read the signs for the times anymore and you forget you aren't in your cab where you spend most of your driving time.

You get conditioned to the way you drive 99 per cent of the time so suggesting these people are being stupid or not reading things, well, you've shown how easy it is to do what you are used to withut giving it much thought.

Remember that the other way round there are fines to pay so in case they misinterpret or misread most people just err on the side of not getting in bother.

Why is it you can give your views, and can be quite aggressive with it, yet my views are seen as a wind uip or having some agenda? I'm not getting that, i'm just explaining why most driver drive the way they do, just like you are trying to explain on this and other threads why taxi drivers drive the way they do.

[J-C]

Stop your havering, you ae having a go at drivers who don't really understand the bus lanes and don't seem to read the signs.

My point is that if you were a driver who was only ever going past these things during rush hour it's just second nature to stay out of them. Most probably don't even bother to look at the signs on a raod they drive every day becasue that's what they are used to.

You are the opposite, you are well used to driving up the lanes so occasionally you forget for a wee second and you drive up them. That's understandable, you do it so often that you don't read the signs for the times anymore and you forget you aren't in your cab where you spend most of your driving time.

You get conditioned to the way you drive 99 per cent of the time so suggesting these people are being stupid or not reading things, well, you've shown how easy it is to do what you are used to withut giving it much thought.

Remember that the other way round there are fines to pay so in case they misinterpret or misread most people just err on the side of not getting in bother.

Why is it you can give your views, and can be quite aggressive with it, yet my views are seen as a wind uip or having some agenda? I'm not getting that, i'm just explaining why most driver drive the way they do, just like you are trying to explain on this and other threads why taxi drivers drive the way they do.


Whether or not these people only every drive past them during rush hour has sod all to do with the fact they either ignore these signs or just too damn stupid to understand them.

I'm getting aggressive cause yore harping on about me already knowing the rules, yet twice a year or so I forget, yet that to you is the same as all these drivers who ignore the road signs on a regular basis.

If this is all you've got to to do is sit and nitpick about nothing, well you need to get out more.

[Fantic]

I do my own thing, follow the rules as i know them, and be polite to other drivers. Better than driving about stressed half the time for the sake of a few minutes. Its no nuclear science.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

Bus Lane problems -

There are certain bus lane that are just daft. Like the one from Cameron Tolll towards Gilmerton Road, even the buses don't use the left hand bus lane which is meant for left turn and buses only and go into the right hand lane towards Liberton Brae.

Also, when car drivers use the bus lane and expect you to let them out when they are in a bus lane but end up behind a bus, that's what a bus lane is for, if your behind a bus you'll just have to live with it, if I don't want to let you out, live with it!!

[Scouse Hibee]

Got a taxi home home four weeks running, three weeks running after giving my destination I had to give directions to the "professional drivers" to my street! On the fourth week driver took me straight to my door, when I expressed my surprise it turned out he lives along the road. I expect a black cab to know we're they're going or is that asking too much? No problems with taxi drivers though as a few of my mates are black cabbies.

[J-C]

Got a taxi home home four weeks running, three weeks running after giving my destination I had to give directions to the "professional drivers" to my street! On the fourth week driver took me straight to my door, when I expressed my surprise it turned out he lives along the road. I expect a black cab to know we're they're going or is that asking too much? No problems with taxi drivers though as a few of my mates are black cabbies.

You'll find that we don't know every single street, as that's pretty impossible, but we'll know at least 90-95% of them. The most important thing to remember is when a destination is given, you know the exact area the street is in e.g, if you say Durar Dr we know it's in Clermiston and head for there and not the other side of town. Generally the street pops up into your minds eye immediately but occassionally it takes a few moments to remember exactly where the street is, more important to take you in the proper direction first.

[Woody1985]

It seems to be that the black cabs main selling points are; You can get them on the street and that they know where they are going.

I don't mind telling a driver, PH or BC, that my house is in Gilmerton (although it is in my street name!), and the exact street when I get there. Therefore that really negates one of their selling points for me.

JC, you'll have more knowledge on this than I will but hopefully you can answer (It must seem like you're getting a fair amount of stick here but it's good that we can get an insight into a taxi drivers view point as this discussion would have died a long time ago so please continue with the thread).

Am I correct in saying that a lot/majority (or just some) are all signed up to a company now such as comcabs (going by your mention of 5-6k fees to join)?

Therefore, meaning that less taxis are available on street than they were in the past?

I use comcabs regularly as I find it fast and efficient when in town, providing they have a cab in your area or they won't send one out to you, this is my experience when calling them from my home.

I suspect that you need to join these companies now to stay afloat and compete with PHs and go with the market.

I have noticed that there are an increasing number of black cabs without lights on and no passengers, is this because they are all signed up to companies such as comcabs and on their way to destinations?

[J-C]

It seems to be that the black cabs main selling points are; You can get them on the street and that they know where they are going.

I don't mind telling a driver, PH or BC, that my house is in Gilmerton (although it is in my street name!), and the exact street when I get there. Therefore that really negates one of their selling points for me.

JC, you'll have more knowledge on this than I will but hopefully you can answer (It must seem like you're getting a fair amount of stick here but it's good that we can get an insight into a taxi drivers view point as this discussion would have died a long time ago so please continue with the thread).

Am I correct in saying that a lot/majority (or just some) are all signed up to a company now such as comcabs (going by your mention of 5-6k fees to join)?

Therefore, meaning that less taxis are available on street than they were in the past?

I use comcabs regularly as I find it fast and efficient when in town, providing they have a cab in your area or they won't send one out to you, this is my experience when calling them from my home.

I suspect that you need to join these companies now to stay afloat and compete with PHs and go with the market.

I have noticed that there are an increasing number of black cabs without lights on and no passengers, is this because they are all signed up to companies such as comcabs and on their way to destinations?


There are 2 companies in Edinburgh where the owners of the taxi's are also owners of the company, it works like a workers co-orperative and they have AGM's every year to vote for a Chairman, secretery and committee, which then run the company as sees fit. Within these companies there is a large number of workers in the offices doing jobs such as, marketing, sales, admin and telephone personnel. Add to this business cards, reciept cards and any marketing for radio etc and this costs a few pounds to run.

Comcabs are owned by a multi national company who run taxi companies all over the world, the taxin owners have no say in how the company is run and pay radio dues for the privilage of getting work off the radio fom them.

Central and City are worker's co-operatives and also pay radio dues which covers the costs of running offices etc, the owners have a say in how these companies work. There is a fee to pay when joining one of these companies, somewhere between £4k-£6k

The rest of the taxi's in the streets are purely street cabs, whwere the owner doesn't want a radio and prefers to work the streets at his own will.

There are approx 770 taxi's between Central and City, with Comcab having around 270 taxi's.

Central and City also have the contract for the Airport under the name of Forward Travel, a permit is paid every month, with £2 paid to go through the barrier at the airport rank.

Any taxi can buy a permit for the 2 railway stations.

Central taxi's have an Auriga data system which has GPS for automatic ranking( over 120 zones in Edinburgh ) and a computer for sending job details, also recently installed is a swipe card machine for taking Maestro,Visa etc.

If taxi has it's light off, then it usually means that the driver has been given a job and is heading for said job, or he may have forgotten to turn it back on again after his last job. I've done this a few times and wondered why no one was putting their hands out looking for a taxi.:greengrin
Remember we have contracts with all the major hotels, pubs and restaurants in the city centre, hence why at certain busy times a number of our taxi's will be travelling in the city centre with their light off, so don't shout abuse if he ignores your plea for a cab.:greengrin

[Pete]

Stop your havering, you ae having a go at drivers who don't really understand the bus lanes and don't seem to read the signs.

My point is that if you were a driver who was only ever going past these things during rush hour it's just second nature to stay out of them. Most probably don't even bother to look at the signs on a raod they drive every day becasue that's what they are used to.

You are the opposite, you are well used to driving up the lanes so occasionally you forget for a wee second and you drive up them. That's understandable, you do it so often that you don't read the signs for the times anymore and you forget you aren't in your cab where you spend most of your driving time.

You get conditioned to the way you drive 99 per cent of the time so suggesting these people are being stupid or not reading things, well, you've shown how easy it is to do what you are used to withut giving it much thought.

Remember that the other way round there are fines to pay so in case they misinterpret or misread most people just err on the side of not getting in bother.

Why is it you can give your views, and can be quite aggressive with it, yet my views are seen as a wind uip or having some agenda? I'm not getting that, i'm just explaining why most driver drive the way they do, just like you are trying to explain on this and other threads why taxi drivers drive the way they do.

The people who sit in the outside lane clearly don't understand the signage.

They are sitting there for ages and while they are doing so they are passing sign after sign telling them they don't have to be sitting there. They're doing it at a very slow pace so surely there's no excuse for ignoring the signs. Are you telling me this mass non-reading of signs is down to habit?

It doesn't compare in any way to somebody forgetting they are in a different vehichle to the one they drive for a living for a few seconds. The One situation has had all the time in the world to process information while the other has made corrective action after realising the error after only a few seconds.

Maybe it's the design of the signage at fault. For some reason people see a green lane and simply stay out....I don't think they even look at the blue signage.

There's obviously a problem and maybe someone in power should look at it. If everyone knew about the rules then traffic would flow so much better.

I think sign poloution is a factor. I think we see so many signs nowadays that we just get to the stage that we ignore half of them.

[sleeping giant]

The people who sit in the outside lane clearly don't understand the signage.

They are sitting there for ages and while they are doing so they are passing sign after sign telling them they don't have to be sitting there. They're doing it at a very slow pace so surely there's no excuse for ignoring the signs. Are you telling me this mass non-reading of signs is down to habit?

It doesn't compare in any way to somebody forgetting they are in a different vehichle to the one they drive for a living for a few seconds. The One situation has had all the time in the world to process information while the other has made corrective action after realising the error after only a few seconds.

Maybe it's the design of the signage at fault. For some reason people see a green lane and simply stay out....I don't think they even look at the blue signage.

There's obviously a problem and maybe someone in power should look at it. If everyone knew about the rules then traffic would flow so much better.

I think sign poloution is a factor. I think we see so many signs nowadays that we just get to the stage that we ignore half of them.

Maybe folk notice the sign after they are in the outside lane but don't want to cross a solid white line to get back into the left lane !

Whats the deal with the white line then ?

[Pete]

Maybe folk notice the sign after they are in the outside lane but don't want to cross a solid white line to get back into the left lane !

Whats the deal with the white line then ?

The solid white lines that separate bus lanes from the outside lane are nothing to do with the ones that separate opposite flowing traffic. Buses would be stuck in bus lanes and never be allowed to pull out if they had the same meaning. I think the white line is there for definition purposes.

However, that's a good point....they are big, harsh continuous white lines and maybe people are unsure because in some circumstances you simply don't cross them.

[ArabHibee]

Maybe folk notice the sign after they are in the outside lane but don't want to cross a solid white line to get back into the left lane !

Whats the deal with the white line then ?

Are you not supposed to cross solid white lines? Oops! :wink:

[sleeping giant]

The solid white lines that separate bus lanes from the outside lane are nothing to do with the ones that separate opposite flowing traffic. Buses would be stuck in bus lanes and never be allowed to pull out if they had the same meaning. I think the white line is there for definition purposes.

However, that's a good point....they are big, harsh continuous white lines and maybe people are unsure because in some circumstances you simply don't cross them.

I thought it was under all circumstances.
I'm sure i was asked this during my driving test !

How many miles would a Taxi driver drive on average per year ?
I've done 38000 miles in 9 months :shocked:

---------- Post added at 02:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 PM ----------


Are you not supposed to cross solid white lines? Oops! :wink:

:bitchy: Thats the proton beams in Ghostbusters:rolleyes:

[Scouse Hibee]

I thought it was under all circumstances.
I'm sure i was asked this during my driving test !

How many miles would a Taxi driver drive on average per year ?
I've done 38000 miles in 9 months :shocked:

---------- Post added at 02:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 PM ----------



:bitchy: Thats the proton beams in Ghostbusters:rolleyes:

Depends on whether it's a driver that gets out gets on with it and makes a good living as opposed to one who likes to spend most of his day socialising on a rank and then moaning like **** about how hard is it to make a living. :greengrin

[ArabHibee]

:bitchy: Thats the proton beams in Ghostbusters:rolleyes:

:faf::top marks

Ghostbusters game for the ZXSpectrum. :thumbsup:

[J-C]

Depends on whether it's a driver that gets out gets on with it and makes a good living as opposed to one who likes to spend most of his day socialising on a rank and then moaning like **** about how hard is it to make a living. :greengrin


Would love to drive around all night looking for fares but unfortunately the price of fuel these days doesn't allow you to do that anymore, apart from the weekends of course.

I can drive an average of around 80 miles a night x 5 = 400 a week x 48 weeks = 18200 x 2 drivers per taxi = 36000 approx.

Remember these miles are done all around town, with an occasional country job, and a lot of heavy traffic.

[sleeping giant]

Would love to drive around all night looking for fares but unfortunately the price of fuel these days doesn't allow you to do that anymore, apart from the weekends of course.

I can drive an average of around 80 miles a night x 5 = 400 a week x 48 weeks = 18200 x 2 drivers per taxi = 36000 approx.

Remember these miles are done all around town, with an occasional country job, and a lot of heavy traffic.

Pffft :greengrin

38000 miles in 10 (thought it was 9) months !!
Just me and 99% of that is during the day.

Love it though. 5 and half hours up to Thurso last week and 5 and half hours back in the same day. Job took 1.5 hours:greengrin

County Durham tomorrow , Newcastle the next day , Aberdeen on Friday , Caithness next week , Cumbria next week , Buckingham :shocked: the week after.

Driving is great. Makes me feel like a man :greengrin

[Killiehibbie]

Pffft :greengrin

38000 miles in 10 (thought it was 9) months !!
Just me and 99% of that is during the day.

Love it though. 5 and half hours up to Thurso last week and 5 and half hours back in the same day. Job took 1.5 hours:greengrin

County Durham tomorrow , Newcastle the next day , Aberdeen on Friday , Caithness next week , Cumbria next week , Buckingham :shocked: the week after.

Driving is great. Makes me feel like a man :greengrin

Completely different kind of driving you're doing, out and about up and down the country is great compared to being stuck at traffic lights all day and night.

[sleeping giant]

Completely different kind of driving you're doing, out and about up and down the country is great compared to being stuck at traffic lights all day and night.

I agree. I effing hate driving into a city after i've been horsing it down the motorway for 3 hours.

I've got lectures and documentaries on my daughters pink ipod that i take with me. Get to Berwick and get my Bacon and Egg McMuffin and large Latte before setting off again:greengrin

Looking forward to it already:thumbsup:

[ArabHibee]

Pffft :greengrin

38000 miles in 10 (thought it was 9) months !!
Just me and 99% of that is during the day.

Love it though. 5 and half hours up to Thurso last week and 5 and half hours back in the same day. Job took 1.5 hours:greengrin

County Durham tomorrow , Newcastle the next day , Aberdeen on Friday , Caithness next week , Cumbria next week , Buckingham :shocked: the week after.

Driving is great. Makes me feel like a man :greengrin

Do you deliver 'packages'? :wink:

[sleeping giant]

Do you deliver 'packages'? :wink:

I've got a decent package :cool2:

No , i fix stuff :greengrin

---------- Post added at 10:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 PM ----------


Do you deliver 'packages'? :wink:

D'ya know something. I think i've just clicked what your on about :greengrin

No chance:bitchy: That game is for mugs !

[Woody1985]

There are 2 companies in Edinburgh where the owners of the taxi's are also owners of the company, it works like a workers co-orperative and they have AGM's every year to vote for a Chairman, secretery and committee, which then run the company as sees fit. Within these companies there is a large number of workers in the offices doing jobs such as, marketing, sales, admin and telephone personnel. Add to this business cards, reciept cards and any marketing for radio etc and this costs a few pounds to run.

Comcabs are owned by a multi national company who run taxi companies all over the world, the taxin owners have no say in how the company is run and pay radio dues for the privilage of getting work off the radio fom them.

Central and City are worker's co-operatives and also pay radio dues which covers the costs of running offices etc, the owners have a say in how these companies work. There is a fee to pay when joining one of these companies, somewhere between £4k-£6k

The rest of the taxi's in the streets are purely street cabs, whwere the owner doesn't want a radio and prefers to work the streets at his own will.

There are approx 770 taxi's between Central and City, with Comcab having around 270 taxi's.

Central and City also have the contract for the Airport under the name of Forward Travel, a permit is paid every month, with £2 paid to go through the barrier at the airport rank.

Any taxi can buy a permit for the 2 railway stations.

Central taxi's have an Auriga data system which has GPS for automatic ranking( over 120 zones in Edinburgh ) and a computer for sending job details, also recently installed is a swipe card machine for taking Maestro,Visa etc.

If taxi has it's light off, then it usually means that the driver has been given a job and is heading for said job, or he may have forgotten to turn it back on again after his last job. I've done this a few times and wondered why no one was putting their hands out looking for a taxi.:greengrin
Remember we have contracts with all the major hotels, pubs and restaurants in the city centre, hence why at certain busy times a number of our taxi's will be travelling in the city centre with their light off, so don't shout abuse if he ignores your plea for a cab.:greengrin

Hi JC,

Sorry, not been on here much. That gives a much clearer idea to everyone on how the black cabs operate.

From those approximate 1000 cabs that are signed up to the 3 firms detailed above, are any of them allowed to take normal fares on the street or are they effectively contracted out/waiting for a jobs via the radio and therefore not available to the man on the street?

i'm curious to understand if 40% of Edinburgh black cabs are now effectively PH black cabs or if they can take jobs from both the radio and the street.

That could be seen as tipping the balance back in the BC drivers favour (with the exception of the larger start up fees) over the PH driver.

[J-C]

Hi JC,

Sorry, not been on here much. That gives a much clearer idea to everyone on how the black cabs operate.

From those approximate 1000 cabs that are signed up to the 3 firms detailed above, are any of them allowed to take normal fares on the street or are they effectively contracted out/waiting for a jobs via the radio and therefore not available to the man on the street?

i'm curious to understand if 40% of Edinburgh black cabs are now effectively PH black cabs or if they can take jobs from both the radio and the street.

That could be seen as tipping the balance back in the BC drivers favour (with the exception of the larger start up fees) over the PH driver.


No no no, we work the streets like any other taxi, difference being is we have a radio fitted with a computer data head that gives us jobs in the area we are in. If a job gets phoned in, it gets fed into the computer and then sent down to the first taxi in that zone but if we don't get a job from that we pick up in the street or rank as normal.

[Woody1985]

No no no, we work the streets like any other taxi, difference being is we have a radio fitted with a computer data head that gives us jobs in the area we are in. If a job gets phoned in, it gets fed into the computer and then sent down to the first taxi in that zone but if we don't get a job from that we pick up in the street or rank as normal.

So you get the both worlds then.

With a big part of your work being delivered via the radio, given the fees that are paid otherwise you wouldn't pay them, which in turn means less black cabs available on the street.

I assume that the PH drivers also pay a fee as well, although probably less that what you do.

Can I ask a genuine question, if the PH drivers have it so easy why don't all the BC drivers just sell their plates and cabs and become PH drivers?

Is it simply because the black cabs are more lucrative with being able to take jobs via the radio and take jobs from the street?

[J-C]

So you get the both worlds then.

With a big part of your work being delivered via the radio, given the fees that are paid otherwise you wouldn't pay them, which in turn means less black cabs available on the street.

I assume that the PH drivers also pay a fee as well, although probably less that what you do.

Can I ask a genuine question, if the PH drivers have it so easy why don't all the BC drivers just sell their plates and cabs and become PH drivers?

Is it simply because the black cabs are more lucrative with being able to take jobs via the radio and take jobs from the street.

PH drivers do have less to pay for radio dues but their work is also a hellova lot less.

Black cabs were the original form of transport of it's kind with the Hackney carraige and are still the main taxi in almost every major city, PH's didn't come about till years later.
Yes to you last paragraph.

[Woody1985]

PH drivers do have less to pay for radio dues but their work is also a hellova lot less.

Black cabs were the original form of transport of it's kind with the Hackney carraige and are still the main taxi in almost every major city, PH's didn't come about till years later.
Yes to you last paragraph.

Can it not be seen as fair then that PH's are able to offer some discounts to try and generate more income given that they have the disadvantage of not being able to pick up on the street?

It seems like the BC drivers want to keep things as they are because BC's were there first and that's how it should be.

Did BC's introduce radios before or after PH's came into existance? If it was after, could it be argued that the BC's actually jumped onto the PH industry bandwagon and effectively reduced their market share as well as service to the public in a way 'that it had always been' in the past?

FWIW, I think this has been a good discussion and gave people a real insight into both the PH and BC side of things.

My personal opinion as a customer is that things seem quite evenly balanced and fair to all at the moment and I include customers in that as well.

Like every business, running costs will increase, in your case fuel, and whilst I don't think it is 100% correct that the council should be able to dictate if and when fare increases should result I would guess that taxi fares would increase by more regulary and by greater amounts if it wasn't so tightly controlled.

So in summary, keep things exactly as they are and I'll be happy enough and will continue to use both. :greengrin

[Killiehibbie]

Can it not be seen as fair then that PH's are able to offer some discounts to try and generate more income given that they have the disadvantage of not being able to pick up on the street?

It seems like the BC drivers want to keep things as they are because BC's were there first and that's how it should be.

Did BC's introduce radios before or after PH's came into existance? If it was after, could it be argued that the BC's actually jumped onto the PH industry bandwagon and effectively reduced their market share as well as service to the public in a way 'that it had always been' in the past?

FWIW, I think this has been a good discussion and gave people a real insight into both the PH and BC side of things.

My personal opinion as a customer is that things seem quite evenly balanced and fair to all at the moment and I include customers in that as well.

Like every business, running costs will increase, in your case fuel, and whilst I don't think it is 100% correct that the council should be able to dictate if and when fare increases should result I would guess that taxi fares would increase by more regulary and by greater amounts if it wasn't so tightly controlled.

So in summary, keep things exactly as they are and I'll be happy enough and will continue to use both. :greengrin

Radio Cabs existed long before the Civic Government Act allowed Private Hire Cars to legally operate. All these PH guys do is make sure everybody earns less. In this area it used to be about 50/50 between Radio and Street work but due to the proliferation of PH, they now outnumber Taxis 2 to 1, it's now 25% radio work and 75% street work with earnings well down.

[J-C]

Radio Cabs existed long before the Civic Government Act allowed Private Hire Cars to legally operate. All these PH guys do is make sure everybody earns less. In this area it used to be about 50/50 between Radio and Street work but due to the proliferation of PH, they now outnumber Taxis 2 to 1, it's now 25% radio work and 75% street work with earnings well down.


Perfect example was 2 days ago, a guy wnted to go to London from the airport, price is around £800, the guy wanted to pay £600 and the BC at the airport said no ( fuel around £170-190, 16-20 round trip ), seemingly a PH from Edinburgh Private hir did the job for £450, less his fuel, he would only get around £250 for going to London and back, cut-throat *******s, killing the trade.

We're still around 50-50 but it's getting a lot less radio work than it was say 15 years ago when 75% was off the radio.

[Scouse Hibee]

Perfect example was 2 days ago, a guy wnted to go to London from the airport, pric is around £800, the gut wanted to pay £600 and the BC at the airport said no ( fuel around £170-190, 16-20 round trip ), seemingly a PH from Edinburgh Private hir did the job for £450, less his fuel, he would only get around £250 for going to London and back, cut-throat *******s, killing the trade.

We're still anroynd 50-50 but it's getting a lot less radio work than it was say 15 years ago when 75% was off the radio.

The guy that took the job was happy with what he was going to be earning for the job in relation to his normal earnings and the customer thought he was getting value for money. Can't see much wrong with that TBH. It happens in most industries.

[Danderhall Hibs]

The guy that took the job was happy with what he was going to be earning for the job in relation to his normal earnings and the customer thought he was getting value for money. Can't see much wrong with that TBH. It happens in most industries.

:agree: The black cabs and PH guys are always having sly digs at eachother. Even if they were a PH driver before turning to the blacks they turn full circle and don't see the other point of view.

[J-C]

[QUOTE=Scouse Hibee;2436231]The guy that took the job was happy with what he was going to be earning for the job in relation to his normal earnings and the customer thought he was getting value for money. Can't see much wrong with that TBH. It happens in most industries.[/QUOTE


It's a round trip of approx 670 miles, if you were looking to drive that amount of miles in the town and get an average nights pay( excluding rental and fuel ) for those same amount of miles, say £130 per 100 miles x 6.5 = £850 - fuel at 23p per mile = £696. This should take around 20 hrs to do taking breaks into consideration, which is a normal 2-3 days driving on average. For those amount of miles driven I'd say it works out the same as a nights pay but all in one go, so in reality it's not too dear when all things are considered.

[Woody1985]

It's a round trip of approx 670 miles, if you were looking to drive that amount of miles in the town and get an average nights pay( excluding rental and fuel ) for those same amount of miles, say £130 per 100 miles x 6.5 = £850 - fuel at 23p per mile = £696. This should take around 20 hrs to do taking breaks into consideration, which is a normal 2-3 days driving on average. For those amount of miles driven I'd say it works out the same as a nights pay but all in one go, so in reality it's not too dear when all things are considered.

So you'd make £1 profit for every mile driven!

You said earlier that you are allowed to amend your prices accordingly for out of town drives. It seems like none of you are willing to amend your prices.

Like any service or product, you buy in bulk, you get more for your money. It seems like BC taxi drivers want to be immune from the laws of competition and have a fixed income (as much as possible) in a very fluid industry. Bizarre!

If I could make £700 profit for a 20 hour shift I'd bite your arm off, never mind your hand!

I agree with PH driver taking a £300 profit for a shift (based on your fuel calculations above). I think I might need a change of profession.

[J-C]

So you'd make £1 profit for every mile driven!

You said earlier that you are allowed to amend your prices accordingly for out of town drives. It seems like none of you are willing to amend your prices.

Like any service or product, you buy in bulk, you get more for your money. It seems like BC taxi drivers want to be immune from the laws of competition and have a fixed income (as much as possible) in a very fluid industry. Bizarre!

If I could make £700 profit for a 20 hour shift I'd bite your arm off, never mind your hand!

I agree with PH driver taking a £300 profit for a shift (based on your fuel calculations above). I think I might need a change of profession.


If the I got a job to London at say 8pm, the I wouldn't get back till around 4pm the following day, so the day shift driver wouldn't be able to get his shift done. I'd have compensate him for this and give him say£130 to make up for it. Plus gatting back at 4pm the next day I would be struggling to get out for my next shift, which would start at around 5pm, I'd be in bed catching up on the sleep I've just missed, there's another £130 to acount for.


So you make £700, give the day shift £130 and less the same for the missed shift cause you've got sleep to catch up on and it's now £440 for that one big job.

If I'd said ok we'll go for £650, I'd only make £240 for the same job, which isn't even double the money I'd normally get, not really worth it is it. I could just do my normal night's work, go to bed and do the following night and get say £260, but go to London for £650, pay fuel, pay day shift and miss a night's work due to tiredness and I'm left with £240. :confused:

You work out the maths and the reason prices are set the way they are. There's a bit of come and go but you have to make sure it's worth all the hassle, specially with long journey's. Job's a lot closer to hand like Glasgow and St Andrews you can cut it a wee bit, cause you can be there and back in around 2-3 hrs, all during your own shift.

[Scouse Hibee]

[QUOTE=Scouse Hibee;2436231]The guy that took the job was happy with what he was going to be earning for the job in relation to his normal earnings and the customer thought he was getting value for money. Can't see much wrong with that TBH. It happens in most industries.[/QUOTE


It's a round trip of approx 670 miles, if you were looking to drive that amount of miles in the town and get an average nights pay( excluding rental and fuel ) for those same amount of miles, say £130 per 100 miles x 6.5 = £850 - fuel at 23p per mile = £696. This should take around 20 hrs to do taking breaks into consideration, which is a normal 2-3 days driving on average. For those amount of miles driven I'd say it works out the same as a nights pay but all in one go, so in reality it's not too dear when all things are considered.

Interesting! So in relation to what a PH driver could expect to earn in the same period which is ??? significantly less than you could expect to earn.
Do you not agree that the price he gets for the job is relevent to his earnings and so worthwhile for him to do at the much cheaper price.

[Woody1985]

It makes sense in your situation why you wouldn't take the job but I'm guessing that every other BC driver isn't in the same situation as you.

It's BC drivers decision to rent out their cabs or rent them from others. Opportunities that could be more valuable will pass you by due to circumstance.

However, the PH driver perhaps has his own vehicle and didn't have work the next day. To insult them for taking a fare that they are perfectly happy with just because the other driver(s) weren't in a position to provide a knockdown fare is wrong. That's competition.

Those that rent out their cabs to generate extra income do so at the expense of fares like this and I'm sure it's far more lucrative getting a guarenteed income than one off fares.

[J-C]

It makes sense in your situation why you wouldn't take the job but I'm guessing that every other BC driver isn't in the same situation as you.

It's BC drivers decision to rent out their cabs or rent them from others. Opportunities that could be more valuable will pass you by due to circumstance.

However, the PH driver perhaps has his own vehicle and didn't have work the next day. To insult them for taking a fare that they are perfectly happy with just because the other driver(s) weren't in a position to provide a knockdown fare is wrong. That's competition.

Those that rent out their cabs to generate extra income do so at the expense of fares like this and I'm sure it's far more lucrative getting a guarenteed income than one off fares.


Very true if the BC driver owned his taxi and didn't have anyone else driving, then it's a bloody good fare, but most if not all taxi's are double shifted day/night and if I was a day shift driver and the owner took a job like that and I had to miss a complete days work because of it I would want compensated or I'd be mightily pissed off.

The same goes for PH cars, but if the guy was a rental driver he would have to do the same and then again the job might not be worth doing for so little. Ph driver do earn less than BC drivers due to the fact they cannot pick up in the street and generally people use them less, so yes a reduced price might be ok for him but to BC driver's it was a lot, lot less than was worth doing it for.

As I said the smaller country jobs can be negotiated due to the ease of being able to get to and from the destinations ( generally within Scotland ) and able to do within the shift. The fares are all calculated by distance taken from the AA website, and they usually work out at around a meter and a third, the third is for the dead miles being done until you get back to Edinburgh so you can pick up again. So if a job prices at £30 on the meter, add a third ( £10 ) and the fare is then £40, this was the old way of doing country jobs years ago before they were calculated and put on a price list, obviously it's the maximum you'd do the job, but you could knock off a couple of pounds just to get the job, again this is determined by time of day/road conditions and any traffic problems that you may incur.

[Killiehibbie]

So you'd make £1 profit for every mile driven!

You said earlier that you are allowed to amend your prices accordingly for out of town drives. It seems like none of you are willing to amend your prices.

Like any service or product, you buy in bulk, you get more for your money. It seems like BC taxi drivers want to be immune from the laws of competition and have a fixed income (as much as possible) in a very fluid industry. Bizarre!

If I could make £700 profit for a 20 hour shift I'd bite your arm off, never mind your hand!

I agree with PH driver taking a £300 profit for a shift (based on your fuel calculations above). I think I might need a change of profession.

It wouldn't be £1 profit for every mile driven all the other overheads would have to be taken off as well. You always get drivers prepared to do it for less but usually find they don't have to fork out to buy and run the vehicle, they merely drive it and make a wage.

p.s. when thinking about taxis it must be remembered the passenger has to foot the bill for all the costs involved from buying the vehicle right down to permits to park in ranks, or more likely overflow car parks, with drivers getting enough to live on top.

[speedy_gonzales]

If the I got a job to London at say 8pm, the I wouldn't get back till around 4pm the following day, so the day shift driver wouldn't be able to get his shift done. I'd have compensate him for this and give him say£130 to make up for it. Plus gatting back at 4pm the next day I would be struggling to get out for my next shift, which would start at around 5pm, I'd be in bed catching up on the sleep I've just missed, there's another £130 to acount for.

Of course, if the drivers were flexible, you could swap shifts? I know it would be ridiculously short notice but it could happen, still chuck the 2nd driver some notes to make up for the inconvenience, no, yes?
End of the day, taxi's are your trade, your business, your money earner. Damn sure you want to protect that but by some BC drivers turning down what 'I think' is a nice wee earner, they're letting PHC's in the back door. It started with them getting the crappy jobs, now turns out some big businesses are choosing them over the contracts they used to have with the licensed black cabs.

[J-C]

Of course, if the drivers were flexible, you could swap shifts? I know it would be ridiculously short notice but it could happen, still chuck the 2nd driver some notes to make up for the inconvenience, no, yes?
End of the day, taxi's are your trade, your business, your money earner. Damn sure you want to protect that but by some BC drivers turning down what 'I think' is a nice wee earner, they're letting PHC's in the back door. It started with them getting the crappy jobs, now turns out some big businesses are choosing them over the contracts they used to have with the licensed black cabs.


Checked the price for London tonight and it's usually £950, so it was dropped by £150, the PH literally did the job at half the price. :confused:

[speedy_gonzales]

Checked the price for London tonight and it's usually £950, so it was dropped by £150, the PH literally did the job at half the price. :confused:
He still must have been happy enough with the return to do the job though.
As an aside, do you guys, including PHC's, have to adhere to the 'rest time' regulations that other professional drivers(coach/HGV) have to observe? Obviously there's no tacho involved but I wouldn't suppose you'd be the most alert or safest driver in the world if you drove to the City and back in one shift?

[Killiehibbie]

He still must have been happy enough with the return to do the job though.
As an aside, do you guys, including PHC's, have to adhere to the 'rest time' regulations that other professional drivers(coach/HGV) have to observe? Obviously there's no tacho involved but I wouldn't suppose you'd be the most alert or safest driver in the world if you drove to the City and back in one shift?He's maybe happy with it but by the time all costs are taken into account he's not made very much.
Nothing legally but it has been mentioned often enough as being looked at.Distance jobs like that are very rare and most of your time is spent waiting on a hire, i was actually on hire less than 1/4 of my time in taxi last week. If a taxi is involved in an accident first question police usually ask is 'when did your shift start?'

[J-C]

He still must have been happy enough with the return to do the job though.
As an aside, do you guys, including PHC's, have to adhere to the 'rest time' regulations that other professional drivers(coach/HGV) have to observe? Obviously there's no tacho involved but I wouldn't suppose you'd be the most alert or safest driver in the world if you drove to the City and back in one shift?


Not really, the fact that we can sit in a rank or at the airport for 20-40 mins every now and then means we stop on a regular basis. Fri and sat nights we obviously do more constent driving but only for the few short hours between 11pm and 2.30am and that's probably only doing around 50 miles in that time.

A guy got a Portsmouth the other day ( contract job, another company ), said he stop 2-3 times there and back and had a longish break before heading back, took him around 22 hrs.

[Pete]

This PHC who done the London job would have been an airport only PHC. They've done next to nothing since the "ash crisis" and have been toiling big time.

There's no way in hell any of them would have went anywhere near London for that money in a normal situation. The guy who took the job probably done it reluctantly but he needs to earn a living...and some profit is better than none.

[J-C]

This PHC who done the London job would have been an airport only PHC. They've done next to nothing since the "ash crisis" and have been toiling big time.

There's no way in hell any of them would have went anywhere near London for that money in a normal situation. The guy who took the job probably done it reluctantly but he needs to earn a living...and some profit is better than none.

Wrong, it was an Edinburgh Private Hire car, the owns owned by dubious people from out west, the same ones who managed to get the council to agree to allowing them to cut their prices. :lips seal

[Killiehibbie]

Wrong, it was an Edinburgh Private Hire car, the owns owned by dubious people from out west, the same ones who managed to get the council to agree to allowing them to cut their prices. :lips seal
Was he approached by the punter rather than the punter phoning the company? If so if it can be proved he was plying for trade he can lose his licence.

[Woody1985]

There was an advert in the paper yesterday of the EEN, page 11, for this EPHC (I think) who gave an example of prices between two stops.

The did two fares in the BC (probably more and took the highest two they could get) and compared it with a price of the PH (probably the lowest fare they could manage).

It was something along the lines of £12, £11.40 & 8.40 respectively. Ultimately cost is one of the major factors for most consumers.

The whole thing may need to be reviewed and decisions taken that will improve some aspects for each side and lose out on another. However, I suspect that the BC drivers would oppose any changes that would give them more competition from PH and drive costs down for the consumer.

[J-C]

There was an advert in the paper yesterday of the EEN, page 11, for this EPHC (I think) who gave an example of prices between two stops.

The did two fares in the BC (probably more and took the highest two they could get) and compared it with a price of the PH (probably the lowest fare they could manage).

It was something along the lines of £12, £11.40 & 8.40 respectively. Ultimately cost is one of the major factors for most consumers.

The whole thing may need to be reviewed and decisions taken that will improve some aspects for each side and lose out on another. However, I suspect that the BC drivers would oppose any changes that would give them more competition from PH and drive costs down for the consumer.

They have the same advert along the side of the road, prices can change depending on traffic and road works etc, they could've taken a taxi and asked it to go a certain route which will then obviously make the fare higher. I can go from a-b say 5 different ways and each time the fare could be different, this advert is wrong and I'm surprised they've got away with it, unlike supermarkets where the prices are shown and unable to be varied.

---------- Post added at 11:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 PM ----------


Was he approached by the punter rather than the punter phoning the company? If so if it can be proved he was plying for trade he can lose his licence.

Not approached as far as I'm aware, maybe got the number in the airport.

[Pete]

They have the same advert along the side of the road, prices can change depending on traffic and road works etc, they could've taken a taxi and asked it to go a certain route which will then obviously make the fare higher. I can go from a-b say 5 different ways and each time the fare could be different, this advert is wrong and I'm surprised they've got away with it, unlike supermarkets where the prices are shown and unable to be varied.


This has to be the worst advert I've ever seen. It takes too long too read and understand and is full of acronyms that pass people by. If they had the sense to employ anyone who had any real business sense they would realise this.

However, it's no secret that the people who run that company don't major in advertising. Their "excellence" lies in other areas...mainly centered in the west of Scotland.

I'd like to know what time of day these fares were taken? If it's during rush hour I'll bet you the driver was breaking the law by driving in bus lanes.
It's your decision. Do you want to take a taxi during rush hour and get there legit for a few quid extra or take a weegie mafia car and run the risk of getting stopped by the police and being very, very late.

I've had drivers from that company who couldn't show me an identification badge when asked. Worrying to say the least.

[Woody1985]

This has to be the worst advert I've ever seen. It takes too long too read and understand and is full of acronyms that pass people by. If they had the sense to employ anyone who had any real business sense they would realise this.

However, it's no secret that the people who run that company don't major in advertising. Their "excellence" lies in other areas...mainly centered in the west of Scotland.

I'd like to know what time of day these fares were taken? If it's during rush hour I'll bet you the driver was breaking the law by driving in bus lanes.
It's your decision. Do you want to take a taxi during rush hour and get there legit for a few quid extra or take a weegie mafia car and run the risk of getting stopped by the police and being very, very late.

I've had drivers from that company who couldn't show me an identification badge when asked. Worrying to say the least.

I thought the advert was fine, I usually skip by the half page adverts but it caught my eye, I read it and understood it reading the advert once. Maybe the problem lies with the reader.


Or perhaps they're just cheaper because of the discounts they can offer.

I think the comments on bus lanes is just scaremongering pish IMO. I find that most of the PH taxis will use the normal roads, after all, the meter racks up more!

Ultimately there are some rules that suit most i.e. no picking up in the street for PHs but it sounds childish "They shouldn't be in the bus lanes".

Perhaps they should just open it up and make all things equal, all with the same prices and pick ups etc. However, the BCs would go nuts because it would devalue their retirement fund from their plate.

You have made an investment where the taxi and the plate are an investment. Like any other self employed person with their own business, your investment may go up or it may go down. Stop bleating or sell up.


Perhaps the driver forgot to pick it up on the way out the door. Are you sure that he doesn't have one at all or is this just more scaremongering.


This thread has really got me thinking about who I should use in future. I may no longer use BCs unless they're a real urgency to get one. Who wants to be driven around by some bitter middle aged men, id or not.

[Killiehibbie]

I thought the advert was fine, I usually skip by the half page adverts but it caught my eye, I read it and understood it reading the advert once. Maybe the problem lies with the reader.


Or perhaps they're just cheaper because of the discounts they can offer.

I think the comments on bus lanes is just scaremongering pish IMO. I find that most of the PH taxis will use the normal roads, after all, the meter racks up more!

Ultimately there are some rules that suit most i.e. no picking up in the street for PHs but it sounds childish "They shouldn't be in the bus lanes".

Perhaps they should just open it up and make all things equal, all with the same prices and pick ups etc. However, the BCs would go nuts because it would devalue their retirement fund from their plate.

You have made an investment where the taxi and the plate are an investment. Like any other self employed person with their own business, your investment may go up or it may go down. Stop bleating or sell up.


Perhaps the driver forgot to pick it up on the way out the door. Are you sure that he doesn't have one at all or is this just more scaremongering.


This thread has really got me thinking about who I should use in future. I may no longer use BCs unless they're a real urgency to get one. Who wants to be driven around by some bitter middle aged men, id or not.

If a driver doesn't have his badge on display he is breaking the law. When going to work in a taxi or ph putting oyur badge on should be as routine as putting your shoes on. I know a guy who had forgot his thought he would get it when near his house but got stopped for a brake light being out and had to get his taxi re tested for multiple violations of the conditions of licencing. It cost him 5 days wages and £100 for the test but the kind police decided not to prosecute him.

[Scouse Hibee]

I thought the advert was fine, I usually skip by the half page adverts but it caught my eye, I read it and understood it reading the advert once. Maybe the problem lies with the reader.


Or perhaps they're just cheaper because of the discounts they can offer.

I think the comments on bus lanes is just scaremongering pish IMO. I find that most of the PH taxis will use the normal roads, after all, the meter racks up more!

Ultimately there are some rules that suit most i.e. no picking up in the street for PHs but it sounds childish "They shouldn't be in the bus lanes".

Perhaps they should just open it up and make all things equal, all with the same prices and pick ups etc. However, the BCs would go nuts because it would devalue their retirement fund from their plate.

You have made an investment where the taxi and the plate are an investment. Like any other self employed person with their own business, your investment may go up or it may go down. Stop bleating or sell up.


Perhaps the driver forgot to pick it up on the way out the door. Are you sure that he doesn't have one at all or is this just more scaremongering.


This thread has really got me thinking about who I should use in future. I may no longer use BCs unless they're a real urgency to get one. Who wants to be driven around by some bitter middle aged men, id or not.

:confused: Do you drive every day? I can assure you that PH drivers use the bus lanes every night as witnessed on my journey home from West End to North Gyle.

[J-C]

If a driver doesn't have his badge on display he is breaking the law. When going to work in a taxi or ph putting oyur badge on should be as routine as putting your shoes on. I know a guy who had forgot his thought he would get it when near his house but got stopped for a brake light being out and had to get his taxi re tested for multiple violations of the conditions of licencing. It cost him 5 days wages and £100 for the test but the kind police decided not to prosecute him.


I went out last night without my brief/badge and after 2 jobs had to come home from the other side of town to get it because aif stopped I could get fined for not having it.

Ph driver regularly sit outside restaurants, casino's and certain pubs every friday and saturday night picking up from the street, they get no hassle from the police as it's too much bother for them, all that paper work etc, this is what pees off a lot of BC drivers.

A lot of money is invested in a BC from the plate and a £32,000 taxi, insurance and radio company, PH driver's don't sit a brief, pay a lot less for their vehicles and where on the road a lot later than BC drivers, yet they want comparity with the BC trade, WHY??? If they want comparity then why don't they sit a brief, invest in a plate and taxi, then they can use bus lanes and pick up from the streets.

[Woody1985]

:confused: Do you drive every day? I can assure you that PH drivers use the bus lanes every night as witnessed on my journey home from West End to North Gyle.

Yes, I do.

And how many have you seen stopped by the police?

[Woody1985]

I went out last night without my brief/badge and after 2 jobs had to come home from the other side of town to get it because aif stopped I could get fined for not having it.

Ph driver regularly sit outside restaurants, casino's and certain pubs every friday and saturday night picking up from the street, they get no hassle from the police as it's too much bother for them, all that paper work etc, this is what pees off a lot of BC drivers.

A lot of money is invested in a BC from the plate and a £32,000 taxi, insurance and radio company, PH driver's don't sit a brief, pay a lot less for their vehicles and where on the road a lot later than BC drivers, yet they want comparity with the BC trade, WHY??? If they want comparity then why don't they sit a brief, invest in a plate and taxi, then they can use bus lanes and pick up from the streets.

Perhaps they can't afford to spend £70,000 setting up as a driver or don't want to take a risk with the fact that the council could devalue their plates, the same concerns that you have.

[Killiehibbie]

Perhaps they can't afford to spend £70,000 setting up as a driver or don't want to take a risk with the fact that the council could devalue their plates, the same concerns that you have.The whole point of regulation of taxis is to stop it becoming a free for all and ruining it for everybody concerned, I say all but the council make money off of every one on the road.

[Killiehibbie]

I went out last night without my brief/badge and after 2 jobs had to come home from the other side of town to get it because aif stopped I could get fined for not having it.

Ph driver regularly sit outside restaurants, casino's and certain pubs every friday and saturday night picking up from the street, they get no hassle from the police as it's too much bother for them, all that paper work etc, this is what pees off a lot of BC drivers.

A lot of money is invested in a BC from the plate and a £32,000 taxi, insurance and radio company, PH driver's don't sit a brief, pay a lot less for their vehicles and where on the road a lot later than BC drivers, yet they want comparity with the BC trade, WHY??? If they want comparity then why don't they sit a brief, invest in a plate and taxi, then they can use bus lanes and pick up from the streets.Where are the Enforcement Officers? If they're anything like the clowns here they don't come out at night, all they can do is tell drivers to get their vehicle washed in mucky weather but only between 10 am and 4 pm. The whole place is covered with cctv but they stil can't do anything about these guys working illegally and without insurance.

[J-C]

The cab inspectors are run by the police dept and are out regularly, checking tyres, insurance, seat belts etc.

[J-C]

Perhaps they can't afford to spend £70,000 setting up as a driver or don't want to take a risk with the fact that the council could devalue their plates, the same concerns that you have.


I don't mind PH drivers but get annoyed when they want comparity with BC drivers, specially when BC owners have put a lot of money into setting up a business, why should PH drivers get the same benefits like greenways and wanting to pick up from the street, if they want that then let them study the streets and buy a BC and all the debt that goes with it.