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RIP
12-04-2010, 11:34 AM
http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html

In my adult lifetime we have managed 3 League Cup Wins.

However in that same period we have only managed an average sixth place in the top flight. For younger fans this is what you have had to get used to since your first game at Easter Road

We have finished third 3 times in the last 30 years. 4th four? times since 1987

We have in modern times, never won the Scottish Cup.

We haven't managed a creditable performance in Europe in my memory

Let's face it folks, this is who we are. Where do we get off demanding third place from every manager? We are a mid-table club with only the fifth largest fan base in Scotland. We are average.

Sometimes, we are better than average - like the early part of the season under JC and Yogi. In the second half of the season we generally have a slump

We have a history of small, lightweight players who play neat fitba on the nice pitches and struggle on the battlegrounds

What have I missed out? :wink:

scott7_0(Prague)
12-04-2010, 11:36 AM
http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html

In my adult lifetime we have managed 3 League Cup Wins.

However in that same period we have only managed an average sixth place in the top flight. For younger fans this is what you have had to get used to since your first game at Easter Road

We have finished third 3 times in the last 30 years. 4th four? times since 1987

We have in modern times, never won the Scottish Cup.

We haven't managed a creditable performance in Europe in my memory

Let's face it folks, this is who we are. Where do we get off demanding third place from every manager? We are a mid-table club with only the fifth largest fan base in Scotland. We are average.

Sometimes, we are better than average - like the early part of the season under JC and Yogi. In the second half of the season we generally have a slump

We have a history of small, lightweight players who play neat fitba on the nice pitches and struggle on the battlegrounds

What have I missed out? :wink:

:top marks yup, sometimes the truth hurts. I really do not see where some of the fans are coming from the last few season, looks like McLeish spoiled us a little in THAT season.

Dinkydoo
12-04-2010, 11:40 AM
I think a piece of me has just died inside

Phil D. Rolls
12-04-2010, 11:41 AM
http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html

In my adult lifetime we have managed 3 League Cup Wins.

However in that same period we have only managed an average sixth place in the top flight. For younger fans this is what you have had to get used to since your first game at Easter Road

We have finished third 3 times in the last 30 years. 4th four? times since 1987

We have in modern times, never won the Scottish Cup.

We haven't managed a creditable performance in Europe in my memory

Let's face it folks, this is who we are. Where do we get off demanding third place from every manager? We are a mid-table club with only the fifth largest fan base in Scotland. We are average.

Sometimes, we are better than average - like the early part of the season under JC and Yogi. In the second half of the season we generally have a slump

We have a history of small, lightweight players who play neat fitba on the nice pitches and struggle on the battlegrounds

What have I missed out? :wink:

The aquaducts?

Wilson
12-04-2010, 11:44 AM
Sorry but it doesn't matter if you are Hibs or anyone else the performances and results we have seen over the past few months are simply not acceptable.

Using the excuse of our admittedly average league placing to paper over the complete shambles we have seen of late is just not on.

This isn't about fans expecting too much. We rightly expect better performances and / or results than we are getting.

seanraff07
12-04-2010, 11:48 AM
Even a mid-table team doesn't do as badly as we have in recent weeks.

Mid-table team's players don't joke and laugh out on the pitch 10 minutes after they've been given a hammering by arguably the worst team in the league. They also try and play with the correct attitude and don't show a lack of desire when they are playing.

Their manager normally makes changes when required and doesn't deny the fact that their pish.

Frazerbob
12-04-2010, 11:50 AM
With our resources, fan base, training centre, stadium etc that sort of record is no longer acceptable. IMHO we should always be challenging for 3rd. If we finish 3rd it can be considered a succesfull season, 4th is pretty good and 5th is acceptable.....just. Anything less is poor and to finish in the bottom 6 is totally unacceptable. I think we are also entitled to expect regular trips to Hampden for semis and finals with more than the occasional cup win. Certainly more than one league cup every 15 or so years. Lets not get into the Scottish Cup debacle!

The problem this year is that so much was promised with so little avtually being acheived. Had our results been consitent over the season and we were sitting fourt, 6 points above Hearts, we'd all be reasonably happy but the last few months have been shocking and real possability of not making Europe and Hearts over taking us is too much for most to bare.

rubber mal
12-04-2010, 11:51 AM
All valid points 49YAH, but I think most of us have been Hibbees long enough to know the harsh reality. I don't think anyone was 'demanding' 3rd place at the start of the season. I personally was just hoping for some progress after last season's dross.

However, most of the frustration amongst fans is the result of either players not giving 100%, the manager setting the team up wrong or not making subs, etc.

Steve20
12-04-2010, 11:54 AM
http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html

In my adult lifetime we have managed 3 League Cup Wins.

However in that same period we have only managed an average sixth place in the top flight. For younger fans this is what you have had to get used to since your first game at Easter Road

We have finished third 3 times in the last 30 years. 4th four? times since 1987

We have in modern times, never won the Scottish Cup.

We haven't managed a creditable performance in Europe in my memory

Let's face it folks, this is who we are. Where do we get off demanding third place from every manager? We are a mid-table club with only the fifth largest fan base in Scotland. We are average.

Sometimes, we are better than average - like the early part of the season under JC and Yogi. In the second half of the season we generally have a slump

We have a history of small, lightweight players who play neat fitba on the nice pitches and struggle on the battlegrounds

What have I missed out? :wink:

Thats ok then. We can now just accept our players not giving a damn and a manager, who has no plan B.

Wilson
12-04-2010, 11:55 AM
The problem this year is that so much was promised with so little avtually being acheived. Had our results been consitent over the season and we were sitting fourt, 6 points above Hearts, we'd all be reasonably happy but the last few months have been shocking and real possability of not making Europe and Hearts over taking us is too much for most to bare.

Even if we were playing well as a team but just not picking up the results I would be quite happy. We aren't though. We're playing bad. We're losing often. We're that poor that it is hard to draw inspiration from anywhere.

I refuse to write off gubbings away to Hamilton as being typical of what a Hibs fan should expect.

Thecat23
12-04-2010, 11:56 AM
http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html (http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html)

In my adult lifetime we have managed 3 League Cup Wins.

However in that same period we have only managed an average sixth place in the top flight. For younger fans this is what you have had to get used to since your first game at Easter Road

We have finished third 3 times in the last 30 years. 4th four? times since 1987

We have in modern times, never won the Scottish Cup.

We haven't managed a creditable performance in Europe in my memory

Let's face it folks, this is who we are. Where do we get off demanding third place from every manager? We are a mid-table club with only the fifth largest fan base in Scotland. We are average.

Sometimes, we are better than average - like the early part of the season under JC and Yogi. In the second half of the season we generally have a slump

We have a history of small, lightweight players who play neat fitba on the nice pitches and struggle on the battlegrounds

What have I missed out? :wink:

Mate that's the best post i've read on here in ages. :top marks

bighairyfaeleith
12-04-2010, 11:57 AM
http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html

In my adult lifetime we have managed 3 League Cup Wins.

However in that same period we have only managed an average sixth place in the top flight. For younger fans this is what you have had to get used to since your first game at Easter Road

We have finished third 3 times in the last 30 years. 4th four? times since 1987

We have in modern times, never won the Scottish Cup.

We haven't managed a creditable performance in Europe in my memory

Let's face it folks, this is who we are. Where do we get off demanding third place from every manager? We are a mid-table club with only the fifth largest fan base in Scotland. We are average.

Sometimes, we are better than average - like the early part of the season under JC and Yogi. In the second half of the season we generally have a slump

We have a history of small, lightweight players who play neat fitba on the nice pitches and struggle on the battlegrounds

What have I missed out? :wink:

Ambition?

Thecat23
12-04-2010, 11:57 AM
Even if we were playing well as a team but just not picking up the results I would be quite happy. We aren't though. We're playing bad. We're losing often. We're that poor that it is hard to draw inspiration from anywhere.

I refuse to write off gubbings away to Hamilton as being typical of what a Hibs fan should expect.

I know what you mean it's hard, but we have a dip just about every year and lose against these teams. Ok not as much but i do think as fans we do get a bit carried away and demand 3rd. Be nice yeah but we really are not that good.

iwasthere1972
12-04-2010, 12:05 PM
http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html

In my adult lifetime we have managed 3 League Cup Wins.

However in that same period we have only managed an average sixth place in the top flight. For younger fans this is what you have had to get used to since your first game at Easter Road

We have finished third 3 times in the last 30 years. 4th four? times since 1987

We have in modern times, never won the Scottish Cup.

We haven't managed a creditable performance in Europe in my memory

Let's face it folks, this is who we are. Where do we get off demanding third place from every manager? We are a mid-table club with only the fifth largest fan base in Scotland. We are average.

Sometimes, we are better than average - like the early part of the season under JC and Yogi. In the second half of the season we generally have a slump

We have a history of small, lightweight players who play neat fitba on the nice pitches and struggle on the battlegrounds

What have I missed out? :wink:

First Division Champions
1981
1999

hibeemark
12-04-2010, 12:06 PM
Good post, but I'm not sure I agree entirely, to be honest. :hmmm:

As much as I understand what you're saying, I think supporters are more than entitled to always be dreaming of bigger and better things for their beloved club. Otherwise, what's the point? So should the players be, and the manager, and of course the board (Petrie, take note :grr:).

The likes of Arsenal dream of winning the Champion's League. The likes of Birmingham etc, dream of winning the EPL. The Old Firm dream of winning the CL or Europa. And we dream of the Scottish Cup, winning the SPL, of being a consistent force in the game, and it's all natural and perfectly healthy ambition, surely?

It's not as if Hibs never achieve anything either. I mean, even beating teams with such financial clout as the Old Firm is in itself impressive, consistently remaining unbeaten with our relatively small squad is worthy, and of course our winning the League Cup is certainly a cause for celebration. So no, I don't subscribe to the view that "Oh well, it Hibs and we'll always mess it up in the end. We know our place".

We may well be an average club, but so is pretty much every other club in the SPL these days. In fact, one of the most interesting things about this current season has been watching the Old Firm's stranglehold loosen invitingly. The question is, who has the ambition to challenge them though? :hmmm:

HOWEVER, I'd hardly describe calling for Yogi's removal as 'too ambitious', if that's what you are driving at, 49years a Hibee. No, calling for his head is just sour grapes, and why? Because it was Yogi who had us believing that we could qualify for Europe, challenge for 2nd place in the first place! It certainly wasn't Mixu's previous season, that's for sure. The only reason people are criticising him as far as I can see, is because the second half of the season isn't living up to the impossibly high standard of the first. A standard which he himself warned would slip eventually do to our team being a 'work in progress', financial limitations, squad size etc. :agree:

Andy74
12-04-2010, 12:08 PM
Even a mid-table team doesn't do as badly as we have in recent weeks.

Mid-table team's players don't joke and laugh out on the pitch 10 minutes after they've been given a hammering by arguably the worst team in the league. They also try and play with the correct attitude and don't show a lack of desire when they are playing.

Their manager normally makes changes when required and doesn't deny the fact that their pish.

But a mid table team must have had worse results over the course of the season so far??

Leith Green
12-04-2010, 12:09 PM
http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html (http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html)

In my adult lifetime we have managed 3 League Cup Wins.

However in that same period we have only managed an average sixth place in the top flight. For younger fans this is what you have had to get used to since your first game at Easter Road

We have finished third 3 times in the last 30 years. 4th four? times since 1987

We have in modern times, never won the Scottish Cup.

We haven't managed a creditable performance in Europe in my memory

Let's face it folks, this is who we are. Where do we get off demanding third place from every manager? We are a mid-table club with only the fifth largest fan base in Scotland. We are average.

Sometimes, we are better than average - like the early part of the season under JC and Yogi. In the second half of the season we generally have a slump

We have a history of small, lightweight players who play neat fitba on the nice pitches and struggle on the battlegrounds

What have I missed out? :wink:



I totally take your point on everything and agree, however I would have said we were 4th largest fan base wise, definetly the past few seasons and probably historically...

Jack
12-04-2010, 12:23 PM
Take the OF out the following clubs have won the Scottish Cup in the last 40 years or so.

Aberdeen, 6; Heart of Midlothian, 2; Dundee United, 1; Kilmarnock, 1; Motherwell, 1; St. Mirren, 1.

And the League Cup

Aberdeen, 4; Dundee United, 3; Hibernian, 3; Dundee, 1; Livingston, 1; Partick Thistle, 1; Raith Rovers, 1.

On average someone outwith the OF win the damn things roughly a quarter of the time.

In the history of the SPL only one club outwith the OF has achieved 1st or 2nd.

For a club like Hibs, IMO probably the club with an average clout of 4th over that period to have won so little just isn’t good enough.

However Hibs have probably the most secure foundations to build on at the moment, although the OF still live in a bigger hoose. I would sincerely hope to see an improvement on these figures, by Hibs, in the very near future.

weonlywon6-2
12-04-2010, 12:28 PM
http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html

In my adult lifetime we have managed 3 League Cup Wins.

However in that same period we have only managed an average sixth place in the top flight. For younger fans this is what you have had to get used to since your first game at Easter Road

We have finished third 3 times in the last 30 years. 4th four? times since 1987

We have in modern times, never won the Scottish Cup.

We haven't managed a creditable performance in Europe in my memory

Let's face it folks, this is who we are. Where do we get off demanding third place from every manager? We are a mid-table club with only the fifth largest fan base in Scotland. We are average.

Sometimes, we are better than average - like the early part of the season under JC and Yogi. In the second half of the season we generally have a slump

We have a history of small, lightweight players who play neat fitba on the nice pitches and struggle on the battlegrounds

What have I missed out? :wink:

we dont demand third place, we hope we can get third.thats not a lot to ask.

over the years we have gone to ibrox and parkhead and turned the old firm over quite comfortably,won at aberdeen and tannadice easily as well so why shouldnt we be looking for better.

we know we can be better, and the performances ive mentioned prove we can

Ell_Chrisso
12-04-2010, 12:31 PM
http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html (http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html)

In my adult lifetime we have managed 3 League Cup Wins.

However in that same period we have only managed an average sixth place in the top flight. For younger fans this is what you have had to get used to since your first game at Easter Road

We have finished third 3 times in the last 30 years. 4th four? times since 1987

We have in modern times, never won the Scottish Cup.

We haven't managed a creditable performance in Europe in my memory

Let's face it folks, this is who we are. Where do we get off demanding third place from every manager? We are a mid-table club with only the fifth largest fan base in Scotland. We are average.

Sometimes, we are better than average - like the early part of the season under JC and Yogi. In the second half of the season we generally have a slump

We have a history of small, lightweight players who play neat fitba on the nice pitches and struggle on the battlegrounds

What have I missed out? :wink:


Things ..... Can only get better

ShanksSaidNo
12-04-2010, 12:33 PM
With our resources, fan base, training centre, stadium etc that sort of record is no longer acceptable. IMHO we should always be challenging for 3rd. If we finish 3rd it can be considered a succesfull season, 4th is pretty good and 5th is acceptable.....just. Anything less is poor and to finish in the bottom 6 is totally unacceptable. I think we are also entitled to expect regular trips to Hampden for semis and finals with more than the occasional cup win. Certainly more than one league cup every 15 or so years. Lets not get into the Scottish Cup debacle!

The problem this year is that so much was promised with so little avtually being acheived. Had our results been consitent over the season and we were sitting fourt, 6 points above Hearts, we'd all be reasonably happy but the last few months have been shocking and real possability of not making Europe and Hearts over taking us is too much for most to bare.
I've highlighted a couple of points you have raised, which i dont fully understand:

Since when did we become a club who can expect cup runs and occasional cup wins? Thats an old firm mentality and one that i absolutely despise them for having. Its no teams devine right to get to Hampden and win cups. A trip to Hampden is something that has to be earned. We as a club don't earn that privilege enough!
So much was promised? Not too sure who it was that promised us anything. Certainly wasn't Hughes. He erred on the side of caution every time we were tipped as possible SC Winner/title challengers early on in the season. So much so that some of us here accused him of lacking ambition.
It has been a terrible 14 match run, however still vying for a place in Europe with 6 games left for me should be seen as a positive rather than a failure.

Frazerbob
12-04-2010, 12:39 PM
I've highlighted a couple of points you have raised, which i dont fully understand:

Since when did we become a club who can expect cup runs and occasional cup wins? Thats an old firm mentality and one that i absolutely despise them for having. Its no teams devine right to get to Hampden and win cups. A trip to Hampden is something that has to be earned. We as a club don't earn that privilege enough!
So much was promised? Not too sure who it was that promised us anything. Certainly wasn't Hughes. He erred on the side of caution every time we were tipped as possible SC Winner/title challengers early on in the season. So much so that some of us here accused him of lacking ambition.
It has been a terrible 14 match run, however still vying for a place in Europe with 6 games left for me should be seen as a positive rather than a failure.

OK, I'll rephrase. We should be earning the right to play in semis and finals a damn site more often than we do. The Old Firm don't expect the occasional cup run, they expect (and think they have a devine right to it) every year. Infact, a cup win is not enough for them. You're comparison is way off.

The results promised so much is what I meant. Our hopes and expectations were raised. Then, I distinctly recall, Yogi stating that 3rd was our aim. Anything less would be disapointing. So, you could say that Yogi promised us.

Are you happy with averaging 6th in the league and one league cup every 15 or so years?

Moulin Yarns
12-04-2010, 12:40 PM
http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html (http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html)

In my adult lifetime we have managed 3 League Cup Wins.

However in that same period we have only managed an average sixth place in the top flight. For younger fans this is what you have had to get used to since your first game at Easter Road

We have finished third 3 times in the last 30 years. 4th four? times since 1987

We have in modern times, never won the Scottish Cup.

We haven't managed a creditable performance in Europe in my memory

Let's face it folks, this is who we are. Where do we get off demanding third place from every manager? We are a mid-table club with only the fifth largest fan base in Scotland. We are average.

Sometimes, we are better than average - like the early part of the season under JC and Yogi. In the second half of the season we generally have a slump

We have a history of small, lightweight players who play neat fitba on the nice pitches and struggle on the battlegrounds

What have I missed out? :wink:

What do you consider a creditable European performance G? we're the same age and I remember some good European nights, and Turnbull's Tornadoes were regularly in Europe (I think we were in Europe from 1967 to 1975 but someone could check) so us old ones probably have more reason to be dissatisfied with the current lot.

PeeJay
12-04-2010, 12:43 PM
http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html (http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html)

In my adult lifetime we have managed 3 League Cup Wins.

However in that same period we have only managed an average sixth place in the top flight. For younger fans this is what you have had to get used to since your first game at Easter Road

We have finished third 3 times in the last 30 years. 4th four? times since 1987

We have in modern times, never won the Scottish Cup.

We haven't managed a creditable performance in Europe in my memory

Let's face it folks, this is who we are. Where do we get off demanding third place from every manager? We are a mid-table club with only the fifth largest fan base in Scotland. We are average.

Sometimes, we are better than average - like the early part of the season under JC and Yogi. In the second half of the season we generally have a slump

We have a history of small, lightweight players who play neat fitba on the nice pitches and struggle on the battlegrounds

What have I missed out? :wink:

I don't quite understand the point behind a post such as yours. I know it's reasoned and steeped in fact, but for me not having succeeded in something is not a reason to simply accept it is always going to be that way. I like to believe that Hibs will one day make a sustained challenge for the league or win the major trophy and maintain that level. Many Hibs fans will agree with much of what you say, but I think the majority might well say stuff that .... we'll do it one day. That's what keeps Hibs fans turning up at Easter Road despite recent performances. The belief that one day, we will come good is a vital part of being a fan, whereas "accepting" we're only average is tantamount to saying we might as well not bother. But how does that help Hibs move forward?

Green_one
12-04-2010, 12:48 PM
Any season must be taken in terms of its overall environment and the pattern of performance.

Aberdeen and Hearts are both gash. That has left us competeing with Dundee Uited and Motherwell. Both those teams have lower resources than us and have had a managment change mid season. We had a great start but have had a relegation level performance for the second half. The easiest cup run in our history turned into a farce.

The facts indicate we should be doing well this season, we actually were doing fine but somehow all that has gone. It is madness to think that will not be criticised. Late seasons performance often carry on to the next one. So bad now and worse next time.

I think Hughes has contributed to the problem by talking up our position early season, not reacting when it went wrong and constantly blethering about one subject or another. Latest - we are now going for points. Well what a good idea!!!!

So what are we aiming for - an improvement. Do we believe Hearts and Aberdeen are going to sit still? Next season has to be a lot better just to keep in the hunt. We need progress NOW, not more excuses. We have a squad which should be able to deliver that. If not why not?

ShanksSaidNo
12-04-2010, 12:49 PM
OK, I'll rephrase. We should be earning the right to play in semis and finals a damn site more often than we do. The Old Firm don't expect the occasional cup run, they expect (and think they have a devine right to it) every year. Infact, a cup win is not enough for them. You're comparison is way off.

The results promised so much is what I meant. Our hopes and expectations were raised. Then, I distinctly recall, Yogi stating that 3rd was our aim. Anything less would be disapointing. So, you could say that Yogi promised us.

Are you happy with averaging 6th in the league and one league cup every 15 or so years?
To be honest i did suspect that you didnt mean to say that we expect to win cups, but i thought i'd test the water.

Of course i'm not going to be happy with that but thats the state of play, thats where we are.
I can be as ambitious as the next Hibby and would give my left arm for consistent success down Easter Road way but the truth is that it's not likely to happen.

Being football fans outside of the Old Firm in Scotland we have to be prepared to live in their shadow - grabbing any incling of success we can when they slip up.
Admitedly that is a very defeatist attitude but its also sadly a realistic one!

RIP
12-04-2010, 12:50 PM
What do you consider a creditable European performance G? we're the same age and I remember some good European nights, and Turnbull's Tornadoes were regularly in Europe (I think we were in Europe from 1967 to 1975 but someone could check) so us old ones probably have more reason to be dissatisfied with the current lot.

Aye mibbies Dave but my memory has been destroyed by alcohol :greengrin
(Do you know that after that St Johnsone Semi I gave up the bevvy? So your pain was everyone elses gain! :agree:)

I should have said 35 years 'cos the Sporting Lisbon, FC Besa, Liverpool and Leeds games were all memorable!:thumbsup:

Jim44
12-04-2010, 12:56 PM
I'm slightly disappointed that we coudn't keep up a challenge for 3rd place and, to be honest, would have been delighted with 4th place, satisfied with 5th place but frankly disgusted with 6th, which I suspect is our fate.

HibbiesandtheBaddies
12-04-2010, 01:01 PM
Take the OF out the following clubs have won the Scottish Cup in the last 40 years or so.

Aberdeen, 6; Heart of Midlothian, 2; Dundee United, 1; Kilmarnock, 1; Motherwell, 1; St. Mirren, 1.

And the League Cup

Aberdeen, 4; Dundee United, 3; Hibernian, 3; Dundee, 1; Livingston, 1; Partick Thistle, 1; Raith Rovers, 1.

On average someone outwith the OF win the damn things roughly a quarter of the time.

In the history of the SPL only one club outwith the OF has achieved 1st or 2nd.

For a club like Hibs, IMO probably the club with an average clout of 4th over that period to have won so little just isn’t good enough.

However Hibs have probably the most secure foundations to build on at the moment, although the OF still live in a bigger hoose. I would sincerely hope to see an improvement on these figures, by Hibs, in the very near future.

:agree:

We need to realise we are not there yet though. Patience is required, and ditching our manager before he has a chance to assemble the team he wants would just set us back further.

RIP
12-04-2010, 01:03 PM
I don't quite understand the point behind a post such as yours. I know it's reasoned and steeped in fact, but for me not having succeeded in something is not a reason to simply accept it is always going to be that way. I like to believe that Hibs will one day make a sustained challenge for the league or win the major trophy and maintain that level. Many Hibs fans will agree with much of what you say, but I think the majority might well say stuff that .... we'll do it one day. That's what keeps Hibs fans turning up at Easter Road despite recent performances. The belief that one day, we will come good is a vital part of being a fan, whereas "accepting" we're only average is tantamount to saying we might as well not bother. But how does that help Hibs move forward?

Taking stock of our recent history leads to acceptance

Acceptance leads to a realistic expectation of success

A realistic expectation of success leads to a measurable target for the season

For me, my targets will be met by the end of the season, if:-

We achieve more league points than last
We score more goals than last
We manage a higher finish than last
We start work on the East Stand
The manager has made a couple of good signings
The fans do their bit to improve the atmosphere at matches

seanraff07
12-04-2010, 01:16 PM
But a mid table team must have had worse results over the course of the season so far??

Yep, but based on current form we are horrific, and we don't look like getting any better.

Keith_M
12-04-2010, 01:19 PM
Great Post. Let's just all know our place!


Maybe we should just all go to games and sing 'we're sh*t and we know we are'.


How dare we expect our teams to show some some grit and determination and actually play past Christmas.

How dare we think it's unacceptable to get pumped 5-1 to St Johnstone, 4-1 to Hamilton and put out of the Cup by a 1st Division Side, all in the space of a few weeks.

How dare we get p*ss*d off when a team that looked like certainties for 3rd suddenly implodes and now looks like they'll struggle to finish 5th, or even get another win this season.

You know what? The SPL should just do away with all the messy fixture stuff and decide everybody's league place at the beginning of the season, according to what their average finish has been since the war.



:bitchy:

PeeJay
12-04-2010, 01:24 PM
Taking stock of our recent history leads to acceptance

Acceptance leads to a realistic expectation of success

A realistic expectation of success leads to a measurable target for the season






For me, my targets will be met by the end of the season, if:-
We achieve more league points than last
We score more goals than last
We manage a higher finish than last
We start work on the East Stand
The manager has made a couple of good signings
The fans do their bit to improve the atmosphere at matches

Part of me knows you're sort of correct, but your low-scale summation is too 'realistic', devoid of any romance or football fan dream factor - too calculating, not enough emotion. You can't sell season tickets on that can you?

ahibby
12-04-2010, 01:27 PM
That's our history but what about our recent records of season ticket sales, merchandise sales and player sales (form a couple of years ago). Are we not entitled to see some improvement in our prowess based on improved income and finances (and increased season ticket sales until recently). I thought we were and that is why I am so disappointed that despite those improvements our prowess is just as average or even worse than it has been in the past. What's the point of throwing money at them if they can't put it to good use in football? This is a wind up isn't it, because the point most people have been making is that we are crap and we know we are, the fighting analogy is 'we couldn't fight our way out of a wet paper bag', as things stand.

RIP
12-04-2010, 01:33 PM
Great Post. Let's just all know our place! Maybe we should just all go to games and sing 'we're sh*t and we know we are'.

How dare we expect our teams to show some some grit and determination and actually play past Christmas. How dare we think it's unacceptable to get pumped 5-1 to St Johnstone, 4-1 to Hamilton and put out of the Cup by a 1st Division Side, all in the space of a few weeks. How dare we get p*ss*d off when a team that looked like certainties for 3rd suddenly implodes and now looks like they'll struggle to finish 5th, or even get another win this season.

:bitchy:

So are you saying I'm no as peed off as you?

Wrong assumption!!

noseyhibby
12-04-2010, 03:37 PM
Great Post. Let's just all know our place!
Maybe we should just all go to games and sing 'we're sh*t and we know we are'.
How dare we expect our teams to show some some grit and determination and actually play past Christmas.

How dare we think it's unacceptable to get pumped 5-1 to St Johnstone, 4-1 to Hamilton and put out of the Cup by a 1st Division Side, all in the space of a few weeks.

How dare we get p*ss*d off when a team that looked like certainties for 3rd suddenly implodes and now looks like they'll struggle to finish 5th, or even get another win this season.

You know what? The SPL should just do away with all the messy fixture stuff and decide everybody's league place at the beginning of the season, according to what their average finish has been since the war.

:bitchy:
:top marks Great post. you took the words out of my mouth.
Liverpool in the 1950s were going nowhere and had done relatively little in their history and been quite "average" until Shankly came along. Shankly and the Liverpool supporters didn't expect to remain average and "know their place" The rest is history. Hibernian, In scottish terms can be the regular best of the rest and indeed on occasion challenge the top two. Re-organise the league so that Hibs are playing the old firm only once at home and once away and that gap we have all got used to will diminish. There is no sound reason why Hibernian FC can't be that 3rd force every season from here on in, of course, with the right manager and players in place. Our budget competes well outwith the big two, so no team should clinch players signatures ahead of Hibs.I will never accept the past as justification for present or future failure.

Andy74
12-04-2010, 03:45 PM
:top marks Great post. you took the words out of my mouth.
Liverpool in the 1950s were going nowhere and had done relatively little in their history and been quite "average" until Shankly came along. Shankly and the Liverpool supporters didn't expect to remain average and "know their place" The rest is history. Hibernian, In scottish terms can be the regular best of the rest and indeed on occasion challenge the top two. Re-organise the league so that Hibs are playing the old firm only once at home and once away and that gap we have all got used to will diminish. There is no sound reason why Hibernian FC can't be that 3rd force every season from here on in, of course, with the right manager and players in place. Our budget competes well outwith the big two, so no team should clinch players signatures ahead of Hibs.I will never accept the past as justification for present or future failure.


He's not saying we should accept it he is putting into perspective our expectation levels against what has actually been able to have been achieved consistenly previously.

The message being that yes we want to get that stage but we have to be realistic about what it takes to get there to that level that we have barely reached over the last 40 yrs or more.

Off the field we are starting to pull away from other clubs, on the field we were doing the same until February, just a few months under a new manager.

I could add that we've probably been without, for me, our two key players in McBride and Zemamma in that time.

Yes, we should be ambitious but we should also appreciate that getting there will not be quick or easy.

Forthview
12-04-2010, 03:57 PM
My feelings about Hibs just now are probably similar to those in the OP.
I've been a regular since schooldays, about 32 years or so now. In those early years I didnt know you had to qualify for Europe, we just always had European games at the start of every season. I reckon that during my time following the club we have been 'good and very watchable' in only about 10 years, decent/inconsistent and watchable in about 10 years and garbage and hard to watch in about 10 years.
Hopes always high but expectations not so high, it always might be better next season though, roll on August.

BryanV
12-04-2010, 04:08 PM
In countering those unhappy with recent performances certain posters have found it necessary to set up a false straw-man regarding 3rd place. The concern is not that we will not make third place but that we have collapsed into form that can only be described as relegation. I don't accept that Hibs have the 5th biggest fan base and to present it as some kind of static fact is misleading. Regardless of the historical picture Hibs currently enjoy a greater freedom with regard to resources than all other clubs bar Celtic and that should translate into better than regular hammerings from sides such Saint Johnstone and Hamilton.

Cropley10
12-04-2010, 04:26 PM
In countering those unhappy with recent performances certain posters have found it necessary to set up a false straw-man regarding 3rd place. The concern is not that we will not make third place but that we have collapsed into form that can only be described as relegation. I don't accept that Hibs have the 5th biggest fan base and to present it as some kind of static fact is misleading. Regardless of the historical picture Hibs currently enjoy a greater freedom with regard to resources than all other clubs bar Celtic and that should translate into better than regular hammerings from sides such Saint Johnstone and Hamilton.

Yet the OP states we need to 'Get Real'. :confused:

RIP
12-04-2010, 04:58 PM
Yet the OP states we need to 'Get Real'. :confused:

Aye - with his tongue very firmly in his cheek :wink:

sahib
12-04-2010, 05:08 PM
First Division Champions
1981
1999

So we have not always been a crap top division team sometimes we have been the best second flight team. Stick that in yer pipe Mr 49 years a Hibee. Call us an average club, sometimes, I have dreamed about us obtaining the dizzy heights of being average.:greengrin

euro Hibby
12-04-2010, 05:40 PM
Thing I can't fathom is that Yogi had said earlier that there was a long way to go which now has got longer ! When results started turning, it was pretty obvious that we needed to shore up and be hard try to be hard to beat. We did not do that although he intimates that he is thinking about this its a bit late.

Hibs have always come up short but thats the romance of the club and you always need to budget for this if you follow Hibs.

Nakedmanoncrack
12-04-2010, 05:48 PM
Great Post. Let's just all know our place!


Maybe we should just all go to games and sing 'we're sh*t and we know we are'.


How dare we expect our teams to show some some grit and determination and actually play past Christmas.

How dare we think it's unacceptable to get pumped 5-1 to St Johnstone, 4-1 to Hamilton and put out of the Cup by a 1st Division Side, all in the space of a few weeks.

How dare we get p*ss*d off when a team that looked like certainties for 3rd suddenly implodes and now looks like they'll struggle to finish 5th, or even get another win this season.

You know what? The SPL should just do away with all the messy fixture stuff and decide everybody's league place at the beginning of the season, according to what their average finish has been since the war.



:bitchy:

:agree:
Assuming it's genuine, the OP must be one of the worst posts I've read on here for some time.

vahibbie
12-04-2010, 05:54 PM
In countering those unhappy with recent performances certain posters have found it necessary to set up a false straw-man regarding 3rd place. The concern is not that we will not make third place but that we have collapsed into form that can only be described as relegation. I don't accept that Hibs have the 5th biggest fan base and to present it as some kind of static fact is misleading. Regardless of the historical picture Hibs currently enjoy a greater freedom with regard to resources than all other clubs bar Celtic and that should translate into better than regular hammerings from sides such Saint Johnstone and Hamilton.

Go on then, who is 5th:confused:

Do you mean "hammerings of"

new malkyhib
12-04-2010, 06:03 PM
http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html (http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html)

In my adult lifetime we have managed 3 League Cup Wins.

However in that same period we have only managed an average sixth place in the top flight. For younger fans this is what you have had to get used to since your first game at Easter Road

We have finished third 3 times in the last 30 years. 4th four? times since 1987

We have in modern times, never won the Scottish Cup.

We haven't managed a creditable performance in Europe in my memory

Let's face it folks, this is who we are. Where do we get off demanding third place from every manager? We are a mid-table club with only the fifth largest fan base in Scotland. We are average.

Sometimes, we are better than average - like the early part of the season under JC and Yogi. In the second half of the season we generally have a slump

We have a history of small, lightweight players who play neat fitba on the nice pitches and struggle on the battlegrounds

What have I missed out? :wink:

0/10 smiley.

That post could've been written by any condescending yam that frequents these parts.

Lucky to get a replay against a First Division team and then papped out at the second attempt. Shipped 9 goals in two matches against one newly promoted team and one in its second season back in the SPL. Meek submission to that lot in the Derby.

Add in a bunch of half-fit imposters that don't give a damn and a manager that laughs everything off.

Aye we're far too ambitious and ahead of ourselves right enough.

Bostonhibby
12-04-2010, 06:10 PM
See the point OP but we are great at highs and lows, and we must must aspire, especially with the infrastructure that is being built and the lows of the Mercer Episode in my mind.

That is all.................

Glory glory

Big Frank
12-04-2010, 06:16 PM
Great Post. Let's just all know our place!


Maybe we should just all go to games and sing 'we're sh*t and we know we are'.


How dare we expect our teams to show some some grit and determination and actually play past Christmas.

How dare we think it's unacceptable to get pumped 5-1 to St Johnstone, 4-1 to Hamilton and put out of the Cup by a 1st Division Side, all in the space of a few weeks.

How dare we get p*ss*d off when a team that looked like certainties for 3rd suddenly implodes and now looks like they'll struggle to finish 5th, or even get another win this season.

You know what? The SPL should just do away with all the messy fixture stuff and decide everybody's league place at the beginning of the season, according to what their average finish has been since the war.



:bitchy:



:top marks

Big Frank
12-04-2010, 06:17 PM
:agree:
Assuming it's genuine, the OP must be one of the worst posts I've read on here for some time.


:top marks

Long suffering
12-04-2010, 06:31 PM
http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html

In my adult lifetime we have managed 3 League Cup Wins.

However in that same period we have only managed an average sixth place in the top flight. For younger fans this is what you have had to get used to since your first game at Easter Road

We have finished third 3 times in the last 30 years. 4th four? times since 1987

We have in modern times, never won the Scottish Cup.

We haven't managed a creditable performance in Europe in my memory

Let's face it folks, this is who we are. Where do we get off demanding third place from every manager? We are a mid-table club with only the fifth largest fan base in Scotland. We are average.

Sometimes, we are better than average - like the early part of the season under JC and Yogi. In the second half of the season we generally have a slump

We have a history of small, lightweight players who play neat fitba on the nice pitches and struggle on the battlegrounds

What have I missed out? :wink:
your right but 4th best fanbase probs

Sir David Gray
12-04-2010, 06:36 PM
0/10 smiley.

That post could've been written by any condescending yam that frequents these parts.

Lucky to get a replay against a First Division team and then papped out at the second attempt. Shipped 9 goals in two matches against one newly promoted team and one in its second season back in the SPL. Meek submission to that lot in the Derby.

Add in a bunch of half-fit imposters that don't give a damn and a manager that laughs everything off.

Aye we're far too ambitious and ahead of ourselves right enough.

Totally agree. :agree:

If some people are happy to accept recent results and performances then that's fine - but I'm not accepting it whatsoever.

I believe we should have a squad of players who at least have the heart to put in a committed performance in an Edinburgh Derby, who don't lose four goals to Hamilton and five goals to St Johnstone and who are able to see out a Scottish Cup quarter final tie against a First Division side when we are 2-1 up at home with 10 minutes left. If all that's big headed and arrogant then I'm guilty as charged.

One Day Soon
12-04-2010, 08:14 PM
Things ..... Can only get better


Woo hoo. That's a happy song for me!

Hainan Hibs
12-04-2010, 08:28 PM
:agree:
Assuming it's genuine, the OP must be one of the worst posts I've read on here for some time.

Agreed.

Vini1875
12-04-2010, 08:30 PM
To me the greatest dissatifaction is not in losing games but in losing in an insipid way and not caring. I have seen worse Hibs teams than this one try harder and get beat and clapped off the park.

I think we expect more because we can see the talent that is in the side. The problem is watching that talent beat by teams of lesser ability who simply try much harder. I do not believe our players hurt enough when they are beaten.

Cabbage1875
12-04-2010, 08:59 PM
Great Post. Let's just all know our place!


Maybe we should just all go to games and sing 'we're sh*t and we know we are'.


How dare we expect our teams to show some some grit and determination and actually play past Christmas.

How dare we think it's unacceptable to get pumped 5-1 to St Johnstone, 4-1 to Hamilton and put out of the Cup by a 1st Division Side, all in the space of a few weeks.

How dare we get p*ss*d off when a team that looked like certainties for 3rd suddenly implodes and now looks like they'll struggle to finish 5th, or even get another win this season.

You know what? The SPL should just do away with all the messy fixture stuff and decide everybody's league place at the beginning of the season, according to what their average finish has been since the war.



:bitchy:
Could not have put this better myself.

Unsure whether the OP is at the ham or not.

RIP
12-04-2010, 10:32 PM
:agree:
Assuming it's genuine, the OP must be one of the worst posts I've read on here for some time.


0/10 smiley.

That post could've been written by any condescending yam that frequents these parts.

Lucky to get a replay against a First Division team and then papped out at the second attempt. Shipped 9 goals in two matches against one newly promoted team and one in its second season back in the SPL. Meek submission to that lot in the Derby.

Add in a bunch of half-fit imposters that don't give a damn and a manager that laughs everything off.

Aye we're far too ambitious and ahead of ourselves right enough.


:top marks


Totally agree. :agree:

If some people are happy to accept recent results and performances then that's fine - but I'm not accepting it whatsoever.

I believe we should have a squad of players who at least have the heart to put in a committed performance in an Edinburgh Derby, who don't lose four goals to Hamilton and five goals to St Johnstone and who are able to see out a Scottish Cup quarter final tie against a First Division side when we are 2-1 up at home with 10 minutes left. If all that's big headed and arrogant then I'm guilty as charged.


Agreed.


Could not have put this better myself.

Unsure whether the OP is at the ham or not.

Whoooosh!:devil:

My point was I support the team through thick and thin. You only manage 50%

noseyhibby
13-04-2010, 01:25 AM
He's not saying we should accept it he is putting into perspective our expectation levels against what has actually been able to have been achieved consistenly previously.

The message being that yes we want to get that stage but we have to be realistic about what it takes to get there to that level that we have barely reached over the last 40 yrs or more.

Off the field we are starting to pull away from other clubs, on the field we were doing the same until February, just a few months under a new manager.

I could add that we've probably been without, for me, our two key players in McBride and Zemamma in that time.

Yes, we should be ambitious but we should also appreciate that getting there will not be quick or easy.

I agree it won't be easy but I like to think we have the foundations to finally become a real force out-with the big two. Maybe I'm becoming less patient at 52 years of age:wink:

rainman
13-04-2010, 03:23 AM
I think the point he is making is that we can be disgruntled, have a moan and a whinge and tell everybody what we would do differently but the "not renewing season tickets", "scarfs on the pitch", personal abuse to manager and players etc is a bit OTT when we are doing better than our average finishes.

I would agree with that. Especially the personal abuse Mixu took for guiding* us into the top 6. Something we hadn't managed until Mowbray's time.

*When i say guiding, I do mean stuttering and stumbling over the finishing line.

KWJ
13-04-2010, 04:13 AM
Just had a peak at McLeish and Mogga best seasons at this period in the league.

McLeish went Feb to mid April with 1W 3D 2L. Then finished the season with 1W 2D 2L.

Mogga went 4W 1D 4L and then finished with 1W 2D 3L.

So they are all bottom half stuff and it's transpired that we've played far more matches in this period.

Our best finish to a season was probably when Blobby came in for Sauzee but I'm too pained to look that one up.

Moulin Yarns
13-04-2010, 05:16 AM
To me the greatest dissatifaction is not in losing games but in losing in an insipid way and not caring. I have seen worse Hibs teams than this one try harder and get beat and clapped off the park.

I think we expect more because we can see the talent that is in the side. The problem is watching that talent beat by teams of lesser ability who simply try much harder. I do not believe our players hurt enough when they are beaten.

That, I think is the most pertinant point. I got a season ticket on the strength of the ' good football' under Mowbray and the fact that the team more often than not had a go. Now I'm watching from afar (with head in hands!)

Beefster
13-04-2010, 05:59 AM
I've only read the OP but I detest this "know your place" argument we get on here every so often. It's lazy and puts absolutely no ambition or demands on those entrusted with running our club as "it's the way things have always been".

RIP
13-04-2010, 06:26 AM
So don't be fooled into thinking this post is an attempt to lower our expectations. In my view we as a group of fans have singularly failed to put sufficient pressure on those entrusted with running our club to implement a top-to-toe footballing infrastructure that demands success

Non-football achievements such as financial prudence, training grounds and new stands have been the primary focus of our owners and directors. However for most of that time the product on the park has consisted of footballing prima donnas with a lightweight centre, that when tested, weren't up for the fight. We have always preferred the flair player to the battler, the magic to the muscle and the ball on the deck not in the air.

So unless we fundamentally change the focus at the club, the players we recruit and the way we train and go about our business on the park we need to get used to the fact that we will finish nearer to mid-table than the top every year. This year we have seen a small incremental improvement and a worse than usual slump. It's the manager's inability to inspire a work ethic and team spirit which has been depressing me these past few months. No manager has been able to permanently bring a high enough level of footballing ambition to Hibernian FC that matches MY expectations.

Maybe it was inevitable. Are we starting to wonder if all our recent managers have faced the same problem of lack of football ambition? Some of these lads are on their fourth Hibs manager. Coaches come - they go. Ten-a-penny these days, so it seems

Imagine how you would feel if every year your employer foisted on you a new team manager who tried to fundamentally change the way you go about your work and play. Your colleagues would be saying "Here we go again" - would they not?

Some staff (probably the younger, more idealistic, more ambitious) would play the game. Others (the old timers) would merely give the new gaffer lip service. One or two would feel strongly opposed to the new regime and stir things up. Eventually, this would rub off on the more enthusiastic and they too would get dispirited.

Mowbray tried psychology & recruiting model pros/non-drinking Moroccans; Collins tried fitness & lifestyle; Mixu tried recruiting Hibs fans and Yogi tried Wattie Nicol:greengrin. Every single one of them all acknowledged an underlying problem at the club yet only Mowbray briefly managed to counter this.

Is this now the Hibs way? Good infrastructure - no footballing ambition?

I don't know :dunno:

Captain Trips
13-04-2010, 07:50 AM
http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html

In my adult lifetime we have managed 3 League Cup Wins.

However in that same period we have only managed an average sixth place in the top flight. For younger fans this is what you have had to get used to since your first game at Easter Road

We have finished third 3 times in the last 30 years. 4th four? times since 1987

We have in modern times, never won the Scottish Cup.

We haven't managed a creditable performance in Europe in my memory

Let's face it folks, this is who we are. Where do we get off demanding third place from every manager? We are a mid-table club with only the fifth largest fan base in Scotland. We are average.

Sometimes, we are better than average - like the early part of the season under JC and Yogi. In the second half of the season we generally have a slump

We have a history of small, lightweight players who play neat fitba on the nice pitches and struggle on the battlegrounds

What have I missed out? :wink:

I think the problem is looking back at stats, its all about your own expectations, mine were of IMO best set up outwith old firm and I thought best team outwith. I do not see why Dundee Utd can get so far ahead of us with our set up. I do not think we will achieve much if we look back and state the facts we havent done a lot in last 50yrs

Andy74
13-04-2010, 08:33 AM
I think the problem is looking back at stats, its all about your own expectations, mine were of IMO best set up outwith old firm and I thought best team outwith. I do not see why Dundee Utd can get so far ahead of us with our set up. I do not think we will achieve much if we look back and state the facts we havent done a lot in last 50yrs

Dundee Utd are ahead of us a wee bit because they have a settled management over the last 3 to 4 yrs, despite the change in manager if you get me.

Levein has already sadi it took him 3 yrs or more to get the consistency.

Have a look at their positions under Levein though, not a great start, no better last year than where we are now.

We also played them off the park earlier this yar and were close to pulling away from them.

The crucual thng took over though, a settled and organised squad with players able to come in to cover for suspension, injuries and lack of form.

Give Hughes the next 3 yrs and then compare.

KWJ
13-04-2010, 08:42 AM
We may have spent more than others on players under Yogi however he'll still be working at a good profit given the near £4M in sales from Fletch and Jones.

blackpoolhibs
13-04-2010, 08:45 AM
Dundee Utd are ahead of us a wee bit because they have a settled management over the last 3 to 4 yrs, despite the change in manager if you get me.

Levein has already sadi it took him 3 yrs or more to get the consistency.

Have a look at their positions under Levein though, not a great start, no better last year than where we are now.

We also played them off the park earlier this yar and were close to pulling away from them.

The crucual thng took over though, a settled and organised squad with players able to come in to cover for suspension, injuries and lack of form.

Give Hughes the next 3 yrs and then compare.

Yes, 3 years its taken them to get 3rd, building a team/squad. We are 1 place behind after 9 months, scandalous.:bitchy:

bighairyfaeleith
13-04-2010, 08:52 AM
Yes, 3 years its taken them to get 3rd, building a team/squad. We are 1 place behind after 9 months, scandalous.:bitchy:

aye and no doubt two places after ten months:greengrin

basehibby
13-04-2010, 09:35 AM
The OP makes a very good point IMO. Even if the fans have a right to be angry after recent performances, I'm still flaberghasted by the OTT expectations of SOME of my fellow Hibbies.

I would be absolutely delighted with finishing 3rd this season as it would be significantly beyond my already quite ambitious expectations for this season of a 4th place finish behind Dundee Utd.

Of course Hibs have a bigger fan base than Utd but that doesn't mean everything - just ask the sheep and the Yams! Anyone that had their eyes open at the beginning of the season would have fully expected Levein's team to do well and that's exactly what's happened.

Hibs were a surprise package earlier in the season and it was only after our superb start that I thought we had a real chance of pipping Utd to 3rd. Okay - things have come apart at the seams somewhat in recent weeks and all Hibees are rightly angry and concerned. But some of the sack Yogi NOW drivel that I have read is trully the work of the demented - he still has the chance to clinch a Euro spot and with that a concrete improvement on last season and, at least while that is still the case, deserves our 100% backing to try and push the team over the line.

mjhibby
13-04-2010, 05:45 PM
With our resources, fan base, training centre, stadium etc that sort of record is no longer acceptable. IMHO we should always be challenging for 3rd. If we finish 3rd it can be considered a succesfull season, 4th is pretty good and 5th is acceptable.....just. Anything less is poor and to finish in the bottom 6 is totally unacceptable. I think we are also entitled to expect regular trips to Hampden for semis and finals with more than the occasional cup win. Certainly more than one league cup every 15 or so years. Lets not get into the Scottish Cup debacle!

The problem this year is that so much was promised with so little avtually being acheived. Had our results been consitent over the season and we were sitting fourt, 6 points above Hearts, we'd all be reasonably happy but the last few months have been shocking and real possability of not making Europe and Hearts over taking us is too much for most to bare.

Why are we worrying about hertz.They are away to rangers in the first post split game and are away to us so i just cant see them finishing 4th.They have since jumbo has taken over only beaten bottom six teams at home plus of course us.Their home games against well the arabs and celtic will be tough and i expect we will be ahead of them at the end of the season.Id be more worried about well and the fact that this crazy split means we play them away 3 times.Jumbo and the hertz players are always full of it like when they beat us last time only for them to get hammered by rangers and draw with st midden.lets see what happens and stop this hertz nonsense.:thumbsup:

new malkyhib
13-04-2010, 06:03 PM
Why are we worrying about hertz.They are away to rangers in the first post split game and are away to us so i just cant see them finishing 4th.They have since jumbo has taken over only beaten bottom six teams at home plus of course us.Their home games against well the arabs and celtic will be tough and i expect we will be ahead of them at the end of the season.Id be more worried about well and the fact that this crazy split means we play them away 3 times.Jumbo and the hertz players are always full of it like when they beat us last time only for them to get hammered by rangers and draw with st midden.lets see what happens and stop this hertz nonsense.:thumbsup:

Aye but they always look as if they want to beat us more than we want to beat them...and that does p1ss me off.

new malkyhib
13-04-2010, 06:06 PM
I agree it won't be easy but I like to think we have the foundations to finally become a real force out-with the big two. Maybe I'm becoming less patient at 52 years of age:wink:

And that IMO nosey, will only be achieved by the appointment of the right manager with a decent pedigree - someone experienced with NO previous connection to the club - it's just not the kind of appointment that our ultra-cautious Board tend to make though.

Killiehibbie
13-04-2010, 06:13 PM
We haven't managed a creditable performance in Europe in my memory

Let's face it folks, this is who we are. Where do we get off demanding third place from every manager? We are a mid-table club with only the fifth largest fan base in Scotland. We are average.


I seem to remember a 3-0 away win to Videoton just over 20 years ago, a team doing quite well in Europe at the time.
What we should get is a team capable of trying in every game every season not one that can't stay the course and ends up a shambles.

jacomo
13-04-2010, 08:25 PM
Dundee Utd are ahead of us a wee bit because they have a settled management over the last 3 to 4 yrs, despite the change in manager if you get me.

Levein has already sadi it took him 3 yrs or more to get the consistency.

Have a look at their positions under Levein though, not a great start, no better last year than where we are now.

We also played them off the park earlier this yar and were close to pulling away from them.

The crucual thng took over though, a settled and organised squad with players able to come in to cover for suspension, injuries and lack of form.

Give Hughes the next 3 yrs and then compare.

The Arabs took some fairly regular gubbings during Levein's first term there. He was forthright about criticising his players - sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't, but slowly he put a decent squad together.

I am as concerned as anyone over our recent form but Hibs have to end this cycle of short-term managerial appointments somehow - it's getting us nowhere.

IWasThere2016
13-04-2010, 09:00 PM
http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html

In my adult lifetime we have managed 3 League Cup Wins.

However in that same period we have only managed an average sixth place in the top flight. For younger fans this is what you have had to get used to since your first game at Easter Road

We have finished third 3 times in the last 30 years. 4th four? times since 1987

We have in modern times, never won the Scottish Cup.

We haven't managed a creditable performance in Europe in my memory

Let's face it folks, this is who we are. Where do we get off demanding third place from every manager? We are a mid-table club with only the fifth largest fan base in Scotland. We are average.

Sometimes, we are better than average - like the early part of the season under JC and Yogi. In the second half of the season we generally have a slump

We have a history of small, lightweight players who play neat fitba on the nice pitches and struggle on the battlegrounds

What have I missed out? :wink:

Jeezo - there's teams like Killie and ICT with better games:points ratios than us in there :grr: Pathetic!

The context of the period of the last 30+ years is much stronger OF, Yams, Sheep and even Arabs. So to be tucked behind them in a league of this timeframe might be deemed acceptable.

In current terms it is not, and if we finish behind Well and the Yams it is totally unacceptable IMHO!

Out of interest, in Vlad's spell at the Yams how have we compared season on season?

DH1875
13-04-2010, 10:03 PM
History is just that, History. Who want's to be living in the past. It is the future we should be looking forward to. It's all there for the taken. We just have to go out and take it.

sadtom
13-04-2010, 10:03 PM
First Division Champions
1981
1999

Yep!
Relegated 1980 & 98. Some of the fantasist on here need to remember that. Becasue that is a disaster. Not sitting 4th in the league.

To add to the original post until our collapse after the year. We had the join best record in Britain for goals conceeded. Not something weve ever been famous for. Also for a while we were showing a resiliance and a determination seldom seen from a Hibs team. This resulted in more late point gaining goals than i can ever remember in 40 years watching Hibs.
Also i think it is still the case that we have won more points after being behind than any other team in the league.

There have been several negatives, particulary since the turn of the year, but still enough positives to be optimistic about the future.

We need to let Yogi build something with a solid base not just a house of straw. This will take at least 2 more seasons IMHO.

Let the man get on with building the club on firm foundations and lets get behind him. There will (repeat WILL) be dissapointments and frustrations over the coming years but we cant say we are not used to them but hopefully they will be outweighed by the positives.

Those slavering, wannabe 'championship manager' types out there, who cant accept that we have no right to beat anyone should take a long walk of a short pier.
Failing that, go support the weedgies. That sort of arrogance and belief of entitlement would see them much more at home.

It was the hun**** who declared "we deserve better" - no they *****in' dont! - But neither do we.
You have to work hard and strive for the success we all want to see. Were not going to get it just because we think we should or becasue we reckon its our turn.

Basildon Hibs
14-04-2010, 01:12 AM
http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/alltimeprem.html

...... We are a mid-table club with only the fifth largest fan base in Scotland. ..........
:wink:

Fifth? Who, apart from the OF have a bigger fan-base than us? The Yams are on a par with us. :confused:

Moulin Yarns
14-04-2010, 05:12 AM
Fifth? Who, apart from the OF have a bigger fan-base than us? The Yams are on a par with us. :confused:

Yams have 400,000 dontchaknow and when doing well, the Sheep will have higher average crowds, so I'd agree that we porpbably have the 5th largest fan base.

seanraff07
14-04-2010, 02:07 PM
Yams have 400,000 dontchaknow and when doing well, the Sheep will have higher average crowds, so I'd agree that we porpbably have the 5th largest fan base.

Hearts get bigger home crowds than us but even when Aberdeen are doing well they toil to get over 10,000.:faf: