new contracts / under 17s and 19s

[scoopyboy]

Been hearing that several of the under 17s have been getting new 2 year contracts. These however may be reduced to one year depending on what happens to the leagues. Under 18, under 21 and reserve leagues all being discussed. Very poor wages to boot.

Have also heard that the majority of the 19s will be released.

[.Sean.]

Been hearing that several of the under 17s have been getting new 2 year contracts. These however may be reduced to one year depending on what happens to the leagues. Under 18, under 21 and reserve leagues all being discussed. Very poor wages to boot.

Have also heard that the majority of the 19s will be released.
I've heard similar :agree:

[Scooter]

Been hearing that several of the under 17s have been getting new 2 year contracts. These however may be reduced to one year depending on what happens to the leagues. Under 18, under 21 and reserve leagues all being discussed. Very poor wages to boot.

Have also heard that the majority of the 19s will be released.

Whit!!! Along with the curries welsh, booth, taggart, the youngster that came from everton

[.Sean.]

Whit!!! Along with the curries welsh, booth, taggart, the youngster that came from everton
I think the 5 you have mentioned will be safe as will Fergus Bell and Scott Smith. There is absolutely NO chance Boothy will be released.

[seanraff07]

Whit!!! Along with the curries welsh, booth, taggart, the youngster that came from everton
Thomas McCready i think is his name, i've been told that he has played well, i can't see the ones you've mentioned being released.

[cabbageandribs1875]

scrapping the reserve league really bug*ered up a lot of clubs didn't it, no where for the young lads to play and keep match fit after they reach 21(is that right?) all they can do is hopefully get a seat on the first team bench, out of interest how old is kurtis byrne now ? and is he getting any competitive game time at all ?

[Andy74]

Been hearing that several of the under 17s have been getting new 2 year contracts. These however may be reduced to one year depending on what happens to the leagues. Under 18, under 21 and reserve leagues all being discussed. Very poor wages to boot.

Have also heard that the majority of the 19s will be released.

As it's unusual for any more than 3 or 4 of each year to make anything of themselves this sounds about right.

[seanraff07]

scrapping the reserve league really bug*ered up a lot of clubs didn't it, no where for the young lads to play and keep match fit after they reach 21(is that right?) all they can do is hopefully get a seat on the first team bench, out of interest how old is kurtis byrne now ? and is he getting any competitive game time at all ?

He just turned 19 three days ago, and he will play in some bounce games but apart from that not really.

[scoopyboy]

He just turned 19 three days ago, and he will play in some bounce games but apart from that not really.

Just turned 20 a few days ago.

If he was 18 up until the 9th he would have been playing in the under 19s this season.

[seanraff07]

Just turned 20 a few days ago.

If he was 18 up until the 9th he would have been playing in the under 19s this season.

Was just going by what Wikipedia said.:rolleyes:

[Andy74]

Just turned 20 a few days ago.

If he was 18 up until the 9th he would have been playing in the under 19s this season.

Unless he goes down the leagues on loan and starts rattling in a decent amount of goals I'm not sure he will be the player we hoped he might be.

20 and not really featured at all.

In our recent past players have shown that if you are really better than what we have at that age you'll be in.

[HibeeDaz6270]

Was just going by what Wikipedia said.:rolleyes:
Wikipedia says hes 20 though:agree:

[seanraff07]

Wikipedia says hes 20 though:agree:

I checked again and it still says 18 on this.:confused:

[TRIALIST]

Unless he goes down the leagues on loan and starts rattling in a decent amount of goals I'm not sure he will be the player we hoped he might be.

20 and not really featured at all.

In our recent past players have shown that if you are really better than what we have at that age you'll be in.

IMO the fact that Kurtis and Danny Galbraith have not been given a start in the last two months has been bad management, the team has been crying out to be freshened up since certain players looked jaded in December. These guys should have been eased in and allowed to continue to develop. Liam Miller, John Rankin, Stokes and Riordan should have been rotated, now they look as if they are punch drunk. With every week another a couple of players look tired and disorientated, we are playing with half the team as passengers.
If these two guys who are not match fit come in now there is a good chance they will get slaughtered. He has missed his chance!
Yogi's mantra about effort and character every week is idealistic and straight from some management text book, just what we fans want to hear...but not every week, its all wearing a bit thin. These values can only be applied when he has the players who are able to respond. The last two months proves they are probably not that type and they should have been managed in a different manner, unfortunately it looks like Yogi has not passed the work in progress stage. Yogi should chuck away the Watt Nicol book of motivational speeches and get the Billy Reid or Gus McPherson hand book.

[HibeeDaz6270]

I checked again and it still says 18 on this.:confused:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurtis_Byrne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurtis_Byrne)

it says (19) however also says date of birth is 9 April 1990 which means hes now 20.

[seanraff07]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurtis_Byrne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurtis_Byrne)

it says (19) however also says date of birth is 9 April 1990 which means hes now 20.

Oh yeah.:idea:

[Hibby 2005]

IMO the fact that Kurtis and Danny Galbraith have not been given a start in the last two months has been bad management, the team has been crying out to be freshened up since certain players looked jaded in December. These guys should have been eased in and allowed to continue to develop. Liam Miller, John Rankin, Stokes and Riordan should have been rotated, now they look as if they are punch drunk. With every week another a couple of players look tired and disorientated, we are playing with half the team as passengers.
If these two guys who are not match fit come in now there is a good chance they will get slaughtered. He has missed his chance!
Yogi's mantra about effort and character every week is idealistic and straight from some management text book, just what we fans want to hear...but not every week, its all wearing a bit thin. These values can only be applied when he has the players who are able to respond. The last two months proves they are probably not that type and they should have been managed in a different manner, unfortunately it looks like Yogi has not passed the work in progress stage. Yogi should chuck away the Watt Nicol book of motivational speeches and get the Billy Reid or Gus McPherson hand book.

Wise words.

Strange how Yogi played Wotherspoon until he dropped but guys like Byrne, Galbraith and possibly one or two others from the U19 Championship winning side barely got a look in. Instead we got the tried and trusted Stevensons, Rankins and then latterly Creggs and Thicots, bread and butter players who offered little that was new. A little more adventure and risk-taking from Yogi might have saved this season.

[GloryGlory]

Wise words.

Strange how Yogi played Wotherspoon until he dropped but guys like Byrne, Galbraith and possibly one or two others from the U19 Championship winning side barely got a look in. Instead we got the tried and trusted Stevensons, Rankins and then latterly Creggs and Thicots, bread and butter players who offered little that was new. A little more adventure and risk-taking from Yogi might have saved this season.

Or maybe the management team feel that the young players' progress will be regressed if they are promoted before they're ready and the supporters see this as a panacea to address all the problems in the team? :dunno:

[500miles]

Wise words.

Strange how Yogi played Wotherspoon until he dropped but guys like Byrne, Galbraith and possibly one or two others from the U19 Championship winning side barely got a look in. Instead we got the tried and trusted Stevensons, Rankins and then latterly Creggs and Thicots, bread and butter players who offered little that was new. A little more adventure and risk-taking from Yogi might have saved this season.

Wotherspoon plays with an experience rare for any player of that age. Danny Galbraith hadn't played competitively for 2 years before arriving at Hibs due to injury, and when it was clear we were already being physically dominated, Kurtis Byrne is clearly not the answer to such issues.

[Hibby 2005]

Wotherspoon plays with an experience rare for any player of that age. Danny Galbraith hadn't played competitively for 2 years before arriving at Hibs due to injury, and when it was clear we were already being physically dominated, Kurtis Byrne is clearly not the answer to such issues.

Whenever Galbraith did play he often changed the game and certainly looked fit and ready with qualities we didn't have in abundance. I would also suggest that Byrne, if given a run of games, would have equipped himself better pysically than either Stokes or Riordan. Wotherspoon is a special talent but there was room for other younger, untried players from the U19's to be introduced. There were 7 of them given full-time contracts after all.

[oconnors_strip]

Wotherspoon plays with an experience rare for any player of that age. Danny Galbraith hadn't played competitively for 2 years before arriving at Hibs due to injury, and when it was clear we were already being physically dominated, Kurtis Byrne is clearly not the answer to such issues.

and how is kurtis not the answer?

if yogi gave him a chance, kurtis would show and prove that he is worth giving a shot.

[seanraff07]

and how is kurtis not the answer?

if yogi gave him a chance, kurtis would show and prove that he is worth giving a shot.

Exactly, we haven't seen him in the first team enough to say whether he's capable or not.

[Barney McGrew]

and how is kurtis not the answer?

if yogi gave him a chance, kurtis would show and prove that he is worth giving a shot.

Who do you put him in place of though.

Stokes with his 20 goals? Riordan who has 15 from left midfield? Nish who's a different type of player?


Exactly, we haven't seen him in the first team enough to say whether he's capable or not.

You could also argue that if he was capable, he'd have been seen in the first team a lot more :wink:

[seanraff07]

Who do you put him in place of though.

Stokes with his 20 goals? Riordan who has 15 from left midfield? Nish who's a different type of player?



You could also argue that if he was capable, he'd have been seen in the first team a lot more :wink:

True, but like Galbraith, i don't think giving him a start would do any harm as no one is keeping them out the team.

[Barney McGrew]

i don't think giving him a start would do any harm as no one is keeping them out the team.

The only player that's in a similar position to where he's played is Stokes.

Would you drop him to play Byrne?

[seanraff07]

The only player that's in a similar position to where he's played is Stokes.

Would you drop him to play Byrne?

What about Nish? I'm sure he could drop him.

And at least Byrne would put in more of a shift than Stokes would.

[col02]

If any the younger players were good enough they would have been picked already as was Wotherspoon and Hanlon. Starting to think our youth set up is either not that good after all or the absence of a reserve league is doing nothing for the advancement of players from the 19's to the first team.

[Barney McGrew]

What about Nish? I'm sure he could drop him.

And at least Byrne would put in more of a shift than Stokes would.

Nish is a different type of player than Byrne is, and if you'd drop a 20 goal striker to accommodate a laddie who's never scored for the first team, then you're mad.

For all the fact Kurtis got a couple of important goals for the 19's at the tail end of the year, his overall strike rate for the season wasn't that great.

[oconnors_strip]

Who do you put him in place of though.

Stokes with his 20 goals? Riordan who has 15 from left midfield? Nish who's a different type of player?



You could also argue that if he was capable, he'd have been seen in the first team a lot more :wink:


The only player that's in a similar position to where he's played is Stokes.

Would you drop him to play Byrne?


im not wanting for stokes or deek to be dropped but when yogi makes a sub, instead of benji kurtis should be given the chance. he came on against aberdeen in october and assisted in us scoring. :wink:



personally i think kurtis should have gone out on loan in january til the end of the season, just like booth and moyes. a 28 day emergency loan is not the answer, especially when 4 out of the 9 games were postponed. sitting on the bench, (or even the stand sometimes:bitchy:) and knowing he isnt going to get the chance to get stripped is very frustrating and disappointing for him.

[seanraff07]

Nish is a different type of player than Byrne is, and if you'd drop a 20 goal striker to accommodate a laddie who's never scored for the first team, then you're mad.

For all the fact Kurtis got a couple of important goals for the 19's at the tail end of the year, his overall strike rate for the season wasn't that great.

Exactly, he is a taller lad that doesn't score a barrell load of goals which makes me think he is more similar to Nish than he is to Stokes.

I watched him in a cup match at Tynie against Hearts at the end of last season, he was impressive and scored an absolute raker.

[Barney McGrew]

im not wanting for stokes or deek to be dropped but when yogi makes a sub, instead of benji kurtis should be given the chance. he came on against aberdeen in october and assisted in us scoring. :wink:.

Which is fair enough. But if Yogi's not giving him a chance ahead of Benji, then maybe there's a reason for that :dunno:

And BTW, AOB came on a set up a goal once against Celtic - it didn't make him a player though :wink:


I watched him in a cup match at Tynie against Hearts at the end of last season, he was impressive and scored an absolute raker.

EOSS/U-19s is a totally different level from the SPL

[oconnors_strip]

Which is fair enough. But if Yogi's not giving him a chance ahead of Benji, then maybe there's a reason for that :dunno:

And BTW, AOB came on a set up a goal once against Celtic - it didn't make him a player though :wink:




maybe there is a reason and i would very much like to know, sure kurtis would like to know aswell. :rolleyes:

AOB :faf:

[Jonnyboy]

If any the younger players were good enough they would have been picked already as was Wotherspoon and Hanlon. Starting to think our youth set up is either not that good after all or the absence of a reserve league is doing nothing for the advancement of players from the 19's to the first team.

This is a key issue IMO col. :agree:

Scottish clubs, including the OF are up against it in terms of spending to improve their squads and we are increasingly hearing and reading that home grown talent is the way forward. Therein lies the conundrum. What's the point of developing kids at U19 level, giving the good one's contracts and then having to either farm them out on loan or have them sitting on the bench week after week with little chance of getting game time?

The abolition of the reserve league (and I understand Hibs did not vote for this) is crazy in the circumstances I've outlined above. Promising young players are not getting regular football because of this mad decision and so I'm pretty sure that club's might have to release promising players who might have been worth a contract because those self same club's do not have the resources to pay playing staff that aren't actually playing!

The effect of the abolition of the reserve league reaches even further in its implications too. If Scottish clubs cant nurture and develop good young Scottish players then where does that leave us in future in terms of international caps etc?

Sorry for the rant but as you might guess I'm not happy about there being no reserve league :greengrin

[seanraff07]

EOSS/U-19s is a totally different level from the SPL

True but based on our team's recent form none of them could even play well at that level.

[Hibby 2005]

If any the younger players were good enough they would have been picked already as was Wotherspoon and Hanlon. Starting to think our youth set up is either not that good after all or the absence of a reserve league is doing nothing for the advancement of players from the 19's to the first team.

Before the season started many fans who watched the U19's were saying that youngsters Booth and Welsh were as good if not better than Wotherspoon but only Spoony got his chance.

Booth is a left-back but whenever Murray was not available Hanlon, who's better at CH, was put in there or else Stevenson, a midfielder.

I think Welsh was injured at the end of last season so don't know if that has maybe held him back this season but by all accounts he is a leader in the middle of the park, something that's been sadly missing of late.

I would have given Byrne and Galbraith a run at some point too as Nish and Benji have been inconsistent and Zemmama has been injury prone.

If there's no reserve league then the only option is to give the best youngsters game time by gradually introducing them to the 1st team via the bench.

[seanraff07]

Before the season started many fans who watched the U19's were saying that youngsters Booth and Welsh were as good if not better than Wotherspoon but only Spoony got his chance.

Booth is a left-back but whenever Murray was not available Hanlon, who's better at CH, was put in there or else Stevenson, a midfielder.

I think Welsh was injured at the end of last season so don't know if that has maybe held him back this season but by all accounts he is a leader in the middle of the park, something that's been sadly missing of late.

I would have given Byrne and Galbraith a run at some point too as Nish and Benji have been inconsistent and Zemmama has been injury prone.

If there's no reserve league then the only option is to give the best youngsters game time by gradually introducing them to the 1st team via the bench.

This is Yogi opportunity to give the young ones a chance cause nobody in the team is keeping them out. I'm toiling for players for us to play in the middle that will put in a shift on Saturday, Welsh could be a good shout.

Booth could always go LB when he gets the chance allowing Hanlon to stay at CB if he is playing.

And there is also that Scott Taggart who i believe is a striker, maybe a bit difficult to bring him into the team at the moment but he will get his chance eventually.

I already think Byrne and Galbraith should have been given more of a chance throughout this season, especially now.

[Alfred E Newman]

Over recent seasons and especially under Blobby, we earned a reputation for producing exceptional young talent. Given the outstanding facilities now on offer at East Mains I find it strange that the so called conveyer belt of talent seems to be drying up while clubs like Hamilton and even Hearts are bringing through more young players than we are. This added to the fact that we now have the most unfit looking and one paced 1st team squad in the league is concerning to say the least.

[oconnors_strip]

This is Yogi opportunity to give the young ones a chance cause nobody in the team is keeping them out. I'm toiling for players for us to play in the middle that will put in a shift on Saturday, Welsh could be a good shout.

Booth could always go LB when he gets the chance allowing Hanlon to stay at CB if he is playing.

And there is also that Scott Taggart who i believe is a striker, maybe a bit difficult to bring him into the team at the moment but he will get his chance eventually.

I already think Byrne and Galbraith should have been given more of a chance throughout this season, especially now.

welsh is injured, went out on loan to stenhousemuir and got injured. dont know when he will be fit again.

booth is on loan at arbroath and is having a great time, he is enjoying playing every week at a higher level than under 19 and is getting rave reviews. he won player of the month for the 2nd division in february:thumbsup: and here is his goal against dumbarton YouTube - Arbroath V Dumbarton Feb 27 2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQXN61jePrk)
:top marks
also callum is currently away with the scotland under 19s at a training camp in luxemburg along with scott smith.

scott taggart is a midfielder, but this season he has played 3 different positons- right back, midfield and most recently centre half. a very versatile player and isnt afraid to go in hard at tackles. he has scored 4 goals this season, 2 crackers against falkirk in the cup, didnt know he had such a sweet right foot:greengrin

[KWJ]

Good stuff fae Booth.

As I said in Byrne's thread, he did nothing at Stirling Albion when on loan in February.

[ahibby]

IMO the fact that Kurtis and Danny Galbraith have not been given a start in the last two months has been bad management, the team has been crying out to be freshened up since certain players looked jaded in December. These guys should have been eased in and allowed to continue to develop. Liam Miller, John Rankin, Stokes and Riordan should have been rotated, now they look as if they are punch drunk. With every week another a couple of players look tired and disorientated, we are playing with half the team as passengers.
If these two guys who are not match fit come in now there is a good chance they will get slaughtered. He has missed his chance!
Yogi's mantra about effort and character every week is idealistic and straight from some management text book, just what we fans want to hear...but not every week, its all wearing a bit thin. These values can only be applied when he has the players who are able to respond. The last two months proves they are probably not that type and they should have been managed in a different manner, unfortunately it looks like Yogi has not passed the work in progress stage. Yogi should chuck away the Watt Nicol book of motivational speeches and get the Billy Reid or Gus McPherson hand book.

I wouldn't hold out hope, I don't think Yogi is very good at man management, seeing a substitution when it's needed and setting the team out well in the first place. He can spot a player though so I am told. Still 50 points in 33 games that's 50 out of a possible 99 isn't bad. If he can get five points or more from the remaining five games then I'll be convinced I am wrong about his short comings.

[basehibby]

I would have liked to see a little bit more of the likes of Kurtis this season but those claiming he'd be some sort of panacaea to all our ills are guilty of wishful thinking.
What are the grounds for this outlandish optimism??? Sure, Kurtis would offer something different off the bench but I'm far from convinced he'd do any better than the more experienced goal scorers ahead of him in the team - Kurtis looked great with the U19s but it's a massive step up to SPL level and while he'd no doubt not disgrace himself there's no reason to believe he'd do any better than the guys ahead of him. More appearances off the bench required IMO.
As for other young players - Hanlon, McCormack, Galbraith and Wotherspoon have all had a good taste of first team action this season so it's well wide of the mark to say that "the conveyor belt has dried up". There's still 5 games to go anyway and with injuries and suspensions kicking in I wouldn't be surprised to see a bit more of the young guns before the curtain comes down on this season.

[.Sean.]

When Callum gets given a chance at left back in the forthcoming season he won't dissapoint. I expect he will get appearances for the first team in pre-season matches. Gonna be a strange site seeing a pal run out for the first XI.

[Andy74]

When Callum gets given a chance at left back in the forthcoming season he won't dissapoint. I expect he will get appearances for the first team in pre-season matches. Gonna be a strange site seeing a pal run out for the first XI.

I think Ian Murray will be playing left back for a wee while yet.

[.Sean.]

I think Ian Murray will be playing left back for a wee while yet.

In my opinion Murray will be switched to his preferred centre half positim when Bamba is offloaded. The point I was merely making is that when Boothy gets his chance he won't let anybody down.

[RIP]

I saw Callum booth several times for the U19's

I thought he was an amazing talent and as I understand it was only 17 at the time

I also think Ian Murray is slowing down - seen him turned inside out a few times of late by fast wingers. I reckon he's worth a pop as a second DM

I'd be happy to put up with another season of sixth if it meant developing a team of

Smith/Brown
Wotherspoon, Hogg, Hanlon, Murray and Booth
Murray, McBride, Miller, Zemmama
Stokes, Riordan

[.Sean.]

I saw Callum booth several times for the U19's

I thought he was an amazing talent and as I understand it was only 17 at the time

I also think Ian Murray is slowing down - seen him turned inside out a few times of late by fast wingers. I reckon he's worth a pop as a second DM

I'd be happy to put up with another season of sixth if it meant developing a team of

Smith/Brown
Wotherspoon, Hogg, Hanlon, Murray and Booth
Murray, McBride, Miller, Zemmama
Stokes, Riordan

He's nineteen next month.

[Moody D]

For what it's worth have seen a couple of Arbroath matches. Callum is never a left back as he is not strong in the air and in the tackle. He is playing for them as a left wing back in a 3-5-2. That being said he is exceptional going forward running at a defence. Moyes is looking stronger and has featured in 4 clean sheets in his last 6 games he is dominant in the air and is playing on the left of the back 3 but he is not naturally left sided - would be better on the right. Both these players IMO could have future careers but they are still developing. Could see a future back 4 of McCormack Moyes Hanlon Murray. Kurtis needs to get games and experience but is a victim of the lack of reserve football - he should have gone on a longer loan to get games. It is a fine balance in bringing youngsters in but Rangers, Motherwell, Hearts and Hamilton seem to be doing it better than Hibs. It was exceptional to do what the 19's did last year - yet Yogi has only deemed Wotherspoon worthy of a real chance?

[.Sean.]

For what it's worth have seen a couple of Arbroath matches. Callum is never a left back as he is not strong in the air and in the tackle. He is playing for them as a left wing back in a 3-5-2. That being said he is exceptional going forward running at a defence. Moyes is looking stronger and has featured in 4 clean sheets in his last 6 games he is dominant in the air and is playing on the left of the back 3 but he is not naturally left sided - would be better on the right. Both these players IMO could have future careers but they are still developing. Could see a future back 4 of McCormack Moyes Hanlon Murray. Kurtis needs to get games and experience but is a victim of the lack of reserve football - he should have gone on a longer loan to get games. It is a fine balance in bringing youngsters in but Rangers, Motherwell, Hearts and Hamilton seem to be doing it better than Hibs. It was exceptional to do what the 19's did last year - yet Yogi has only deemed Wotherspoon worthy of a real chance?
Sorry, but I wholeheartedly disagree. You've seen what, a couple matches? I've known him for years, and he is a fantastic, attacking full-back.

[brydekirk]

If any the younger players were good enough they would have been picked already as was Wotherspoon and Hanlon. Starting to think our youth set up is either not that good after all or the absence of a reserve league is doing nothing for the advancement of players from the 19's to the first team.
not that sure TBH. If we had a good RB, i dont think we would have seen as much of DW. Yogi was forced into playing hanlon at CH, although that move worked well, Yogi is old fashioned compared to some managers and prefers the young ones to go on loan for there apprenticeship.

[helsbels]

Been hearing that several of the under 17s have been getting new 2 year contracts. These however may be reduced to one year depending on what happens to the leagues. Under 18, under 21 and reserve leagues all being discussed. Very poor wages to boot.

Have also heard that the majority of the 19s will be released.

There is 7 Under 19's ready to move either into the 1st team squad or move on not including Callum Booth(already has a contract) or Scott Smith (has another year at 19's), 4 were a no, 2 still waiting to hear and 1 yes.

[.Sean.]

[/B]

There is 7 Under 19's ready to move either into the 1st team squad or move on not including Callum Booth(already has a contract) or Scott Smith (has another year at 19's), 4 were a no, 2 still waiting to hear and 1 yes.

I won't name names but I know of one 19s player who will definately be leaving in the summer.