Rickshaw Tragedy

[Phil D. Rolls]

Saw in the Evening News tonight that a guy was killed after the rickshaw he was in capsized his rickshaw on Lothian road. He was a soldier on leave, and somehow that makes the incident all the more tragic.

He dodges bombs and bullets for his job, only to have his life ended, because Edinburgh Sh*tty council let these *rseholes loose on the roads, unregulated for years.

I can't say its a surprise. The "drivers" were reckless young yahoos, and the number of near misses I saw when cab driving was startling. The worst was driving off Bristo Place onto the dual carriageway at Teviot Row/Lothian Street. As I whizzed round the lights, the last thing I expected was to be met by a rickshaw coming in the opposite direction.

These guys have been able to ply their trade - at exorbitant rates for years. They are not checked by the police beforehand, their vehicles do not get tested, they drive without lights and without insurance.

Let's get rid of the ********s now, before someone else is killed. They are indicative "Dodge City" attitude that the council displayed over the last decade, everyone on the make, and no questions asked.

[steakbake]

Part of the problem is that it's not a very reliable form of transport. It needs a driver who knows what they are doing and passengers who are aware of what is going on.

Pished folks flailing around in the back of a flimsy rickshaw, being driven by some careless gallah is a recipe for disaster. Its perhaps a bit of a surprise that these sorts of incidents don't happen more often.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Part of the problem is that it's not a very reliable form of transport. It needs a driver who knows what they are doing and passengers who are aware of what is going on.

Pished folks flailing around in the back of a flimsy rickshaw, being driven by some careless gallah is a recipe for disaster. Its perhaps a bit of a surprise that these sorts of incidents don't happen more often.

This is the one we've heard about. How many non fatal accidents are they involved in.

[steakbake]

This is the one we've heard about. How many non fatal accidents are they involved in.

I know of one person whose scarf got caught in the spokes of a rickshaw when she was a passenger and she was almost strangled.

[vein]

I know of one person whose scarf got caught in the spokes of a rickshaw when she was a passenger and she was almost strangled.

I'm sure that happened to someone in Edinburgh a few years back and they did get strangled to death from it.

[sleeping giant]

I'm sure that happened to someone in Edinburgh a few years back and they did get strangled to death from it.

I have a vague memory of this too

[steakbake]

I'm sure that happened to someone in Edinburgh a few years back and they did get strangled to death from it.

The woman I know of lived, but it was very close. Was there another?

[Phil D. Rolls]

I'm sure that happened to someone in Edinburgh a few years back and they did get strangled to death from it.

It was an Irish woman in 2001, fortuately she lived. Unfortunately they did nothing to take these menaces off the road. No doubt brown paper envelopes were involved.

[J-C]

The lady in question suffered a broken neck when her scarf got caught in the spokes of the wheel, think it was around 2001.

These things are a bloody nightmare, i drive a taxi and the guys riding them haven't a clue about road safety, I don't even know if they're insured like other transport modes are. I was out with my wife a while back when one of these things came hurtling down Candlemakers Row past Greyfriers Bobby, the thing was lucky to be on both wheels and was doing a good 25mph with the 2 girls inside bouncing around, drunk and giggling.

[Speedy]

The lady in question suffered a broken neck when her scarf got caught in the spokes of the wheel, think it was around 2001.

These things are a bloody nightmare, i drive a taxi and the guys riding them haven't a clue about road safety, I don't even know if they're insured like other transport modes are. I was out with my wife a wjile back when one of these things came hurtling down Candlemakers Row past Greyfriers Bobby, the thing was lucky to be on both wheels and was doing a good 25mph with the 2 girls inside bouncing around, drunk and giggling.

I wouldn't have thought so

[Phil D. Rolls]

The lady in question suffered a broken neck when her scarf got caught in the spokes of the wheel, think it was around 2001.

These things are a bloody nightmare, i drive a taxi and the guys riding them haven't a clue about road safety, I don't even know if they're insured like other transport modes are. I was out with my wife a wjile back when one of these things came hurtling down Candlemakers Row past Greyfriers Bobby, the thing was lucky to be on both wheels and was doing a good 25mph with the 2 girls inside bouncing around, drunk and giggling.

No insurance, no cab office checking their roadworthiness, not meter to cover fares. I've seen them taking the corner on the mound on two wheels.

[Hibs Class]

The lady in question suffered a broken neck when her scarf got caught in the spokes of the wheel, think it was around 2001.

These things are a bloody nightmare, i drive a taxi and the guys riding them haven't a clue about road safety, I don't even know if they're insured like other transport modes are. I was out with my wife a while back when one of these things came hurtling down Candlemakers Row past Greyfriers Bobby, the thing was lucky to be on both wheels and was doing a good 25mph with the 2 girls inside bouncing around, drunk and giggling.

Does that mean they do things like unexpected u-turns and have a belief that sticking on their hazard lights allows them to park anywhere, at any time? :devil:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Does that mean they do things like unexpected u-turns and have a belief that sticking on their hazard lights allows them to park anywhere, at any time? :devil:

When I drove a cab I never did an unexpected U turn. I always knew when I was going to do it. If the guy behind hasn't anticipated one it's his problem - at least it was in the Highway Code when I read it.:devil:

The biggest hazard taxi drivers create is peeing in unusual places.:greengrin

[heretoday]

Rickshaws? Bunch of cowboys. You have to be pished to get in one.

[the_ginger_hibee]

Didn't the guy try and jump off? Isn't that how this happened?

EDIT:

The company at the centre of the incident claimed Mr O'Kane had injured himself after jumping from the vehicle to speak to a group of girls.


Fair enough, it's the company's view, but if this is the truth then is it a case of silly drunken antics gone wrong or is it still the rickshaws fault?

[steakbake]

Didn't the guy try and jump off? Isn't that how this happened?

EDIT:


Fair enough, it's the company's view, but if this is the truth then is it a case of silly drunken antics gone wrong or is it still the rickshaws fault?

If it is the case, then yes, I would say you are right. But the point of the matter is that it is often the case that the passengers are ******ed when they get on. A rickshaw is a flimsy bit of transport.

Drunk folk rolling around in the back of a rickshaw with only a cycling driver as counter-balance? As Lynn Faulds-Wood used to say, it's a potential death trap.

[Phil D. Rolls]

If it is the case, then yes, I would say you are right. But the point of the matter is that it is often the case that the passengers are ******ed when they get on. A rickshaw is a flimsy bit of transport.

Drunk folk rolling around in the back of a rickshaw with only a cycling driver as counter-balance? As Lynn Faulds-Wood used to say, it's a potential death trap.

Add in the fact that these f*nnies (I genuinely don't like them) "sell" the journey as a bit of fun, and it's like telling a toddler that the toaster is a piggy bank.

[steakbake]

Add in the fact that these f*nnies (I genuinely don't like them) "sell" the journey as a bit of fun, and it's like telling a toddler that the toaster is a piggy bank.

... and that you need a knife to get the coins out.

[RyeSloan]

Fact is that these are not motorised transport so not covered by the 'taxi' rules.

Also while this is a tragic accident it may be related to the individuals actions not the mode of transport he was in.

Finally the incident with the woman was in 2001...it's not as if these accidents are happening every week and considering there is about 50 of them the number of trips they must be making without incident may suggest that although not everyones cup of tea (and defo not cabbies since they are direct competition) they may not be quite a menace some on here are making out....

[Phil D. Rolls]

Fact is that these are not motorised transport so not covered by the 'taxi' rules.

Also while this is a tragic accident it may be related to the individuals actions not the mode of transport he was in.

Finally the incident with the woman was in 2001...it's not as if these accidents are happening every week and considering there is about 50 of them the number of trips they must be making without incident may suggest that although not everyones cup of tea (and defo not cabbies since they are direct competition) they may not be quite a menace some on here are making out....

We only know about these two major accidents. How many minor ones go unreported?

They aren't really competition for cabbies, but they are a menace to have on the road, due to the idiotic attitude of their operators. The main issue is why they aren't regualted more strictly.

[RyeSloan]

We only know about these two major accidents. How many minor ones go unreported?

They aren't really competition for cabbies, but they are a menace to have on the road, due to the idiotic attitude of their operators. The main issue is why they aren't regualted more strictly.

Who knows...about as many as black cab bumps??

As for the idiotic attitude of their operators...well I have seen regulated taxi's doing plenty idiotic things so I'm not sure what regulation you wish to impose and what that would do in reality.

[Andy74]

2 incidents in 10 years. Sound like they are safer than most forms of transport!

[J-C]

2 incidents in 10 years. Sound like they are safer than most forms of transport!


2 serious incidents in 10 years, 1 broken neck and 1 fatality.

We're not talking about all the other accidents that don't get reported.

Unless you actually see these things being driven around on a regular basis, you can't really comment.

They really don't take jobs away from taxi's as most of the jobs they do are for drunken girls and guys on stag and hen do's, from one end of George St to the other, jobs that are a pain for us anyway. It's the way they're riding around town and the fact they're not regulated that annoys most of us, but hey! jump in one, let them charge you £5 for a trip along Gerge St and lets hope the bus or taxi sees you as the guy riding never looks as he pulls out in front of you.:devil:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Who knows...about as many as black cab bumps??

As for the idiotic attitude of their operators...well I have seen regulated taxi's doing plenty idiotic things so I'm not sure what regulation you wish to impose and what that would do in reality.

Black cabs are covered by insurance though, and are proven to be a very safe mode of transport.

I'd also venture that the impact of a bump would probably be less worrying if there was £30,000 worth of coachwork protecting you.

The regualtion I'd like to impose is that they shouldn't be allowed on public highways without insurance; I'd like the drivers to be subject to the same police checks that taxi drivers are; I'd like the vehicles to have to meet the same safety standards as taxis. I'd also like them to have insurance like taxis do.

---------- Post added at 04:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 PM ----------


2 serious incidents in 10 years, 1 broken neck and 1 fatality.

We're not talking about all the other accidents that don't get reported.

Unless you actually see these things being driven around on a regular basis, you can't really comment.

They really don't take jobs away from taxi's as most of the jobs they do are for drunken girls and guys on stag and hen do's, from one end of George St to the other, jobs that are a pain for us anyway. It's the way they're riding around town and the fact they're not regulated that annoys most of us, but hey! jump in one, let them charge you £5 for a trip along Gerge St and lets hope the bus or taxi sees you as the guy riding never looks as he pulls out in front of you.:devil:

That said, I have come across one as far away as the old Marina Hotel on Inverleith Row, and also on Orchard Brae.

[dalkeith stu]

Taxis? Bunch of cowboys. You have to be pished to get in one.

:top marks

[Sergio sledge]

Black cabs are covered by insurance though, and are proven to be a very safe mode of transport.

I'd also venture that the impact of a bump would probably be less worrying if there was £30,000 worth of coachwork protecting you.

The regualtion I'd like to impose is that they shouldn't be allowed on public highways without insurance; I'd like the drivers to be subject to the same police checks that taxi drivers are; I'd like the vehicles to have to meet the same safety standards as taxis. I'd also like them to have insurance like taxis do.

Do you know for a fact that they aren't insured or are you just assuming that they aren't?

I'd have thought that any company running these things would have to have some sort of liability insurance just to e running, and any person that set up a company to do this sort of thing without liability insurance is pretty daft IMHO.

Rickshaws aren't my cup of tea, and I don't kow the ins and outs of insurance and stuff, (maybe I'll stop the guys in Inverness and ask) but this seems like a tragic accident, whether it was an accident waiting to happen or not I don't know. I do know that I have had more near misses with taxi drivers in Inverness than with cyclists or rickshaws.....:greengrin

[J-C]

:top marks


Remember that the next time it's 1.30am, your cold, drunk and want to get home, it is our right to not pick you up if you've been drinking, are on drugs or your appearance is dishevelled and smelly.

[J-C]

Do you know for a fact that they aren't insured or are you just assuming that they aren't?

I'd have thought that any company running these things would have to have some sort of liability insurance just to e running, and any person that set up a company to do this sort of thing without liability insurance is pretty daft IMHO.

Rickshaws aren't my cup of tea, and I don't kow the ins and outs of insurance and stuff, (maybe I'll stop the guys in Inverness and ask) but this seems like a tragic accident, whether it was an accident waiting to happen or not I don't know. I do know that I have had more near misses with taxi drivers in Inverness than with cyclists or rickshaws.....:greengrin


I think the fact that they are not motorised is a loophole for the same insurance we as taxi drivers pay, which is around £1,000-£1,500 per year and covers most eventualities.

[lyonhibs]

:top marks

Crock of absolute *****e.

Black cabs have ferried me home after many a night out/to the airport several times.

I wouldn't dream of getting in one of these shoogly rickshaw things, which are almost invariably driven by "carefree" (read: reckless) students who seem more occupied in bantering with their fellow rickshaw drivers/pished customers than keeping an eye on the road ahead.

[Andy74]

2 serious incidents in 10 years, 1 broken neck and 1 fatality.

We're not talking about all the other accidents that don't get reported.

Unless you actually see these things being driven around on a regular basis, you can't really comment.

They really don't take jobs away from taxi's as most of the jobs they do are for drunken girls and guys on stag and hen do's, from one end of George St to the other, jobs that are a pain for us anyway. It's the way they're riding around town and the fact they're not regulated that annoys most of us, but hey! jump in one, let them charge you £5 for a trip along Gerge St and lets hope the bus or taxi sees you as the guy riding never looks as he pulls out in front of you.:devil:

Yep, two serious incidents in ten yrs and possibly more minor ones. Not a big deal in the scheme of things really.

And I can comment if I want thanks, I've seen plenty of them.

I don't really care about taking jobs from taxi's even if they did - people can choose to get in whatever they want.

Why would you care about these things being regulated? What issues is their lack of regulation causing to anyone?

You talk about hoping a bus or taxi sees them - evidently they do more often than not as there have been only two major incident in ten years!

I've seen many more incidences of lunatic taxi and car drivers, cyclists and idiotic pedestrains than I've seen issues with Rickshaws!

[Beefster]

2 serious incidents in 10 years, 1 broken neck and 1 fatality.

We're not talking about all the other accidents that don't get reported.

Unless you actually see these things being driven around on a regular basis, you can't really comment.

They really don't take jobs away from taxi's as most of the jobs they do are for drunken girls and guys on stag and hen do's, from one end of George St to the other, jobs that are a pain for us anyway. It's the way they're riding around town and the fact they're not regulated that annoys most of us, but hey! jump in one, let them charge you £5 for a trip along Gerge St and lets hope the bus or taxi sees you as the guy riding never looks as he pulls out in front of you.:devil:

Taxi drivers annoy the **** out of me every time I drive up town by pulling out in front of me, stopping wherever they fancy, not indicating, changing lanes, edging out of junctions so that I've no option other than to let them out and more. I've seen a few accidents where taxis have been involved too.

I don't want them banned though.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Yep, two serious incidents in ten yrs and possibly more minor ones. Not a big deal in the scheme of things really.

And I can comment if I want thanks, I've seen plenty of them.

I don't really care about taking jobs from taxi's even if they did - people can choose to get in whatever they want.

Why would you care about these things being regulated? What issues is their lack of regulation causing to anyone?

You talk about hoping a bus or taxi sees them - evidently they do more often than not as there have been only two major incident in ten years!

I've seen many more incidences of lunatic taxi and car drivers, cyclists and idiotic pedestrains than I've seen issues with Rickshaws!

By your argument then, nothing needs to be regulated - people can choose whatever mode of transport they want. Two serious incidents might not seem a lot, but comparing the number of journeys these things undertake, to other modes of transport might show that it is a significant amount.

As a taxi driver, I never saw them as competition. What stuck in my craw was the inequity of the thing. There are tight controls on some methods of passenger transport, yet these things get by on a street traders licence. Why one rule for one and another rule for someone else?

No disrespect mate, but you are taking quite a tetchy approach to this subject. I laid my cards on the table and said that I can't stand rickshaws as I had to deal with them on a nightly basis.

How come you know so much about them?

[Andy74]

By your argument then, nothing needs to be regulated - people can choose whatever mode of transport they want. Two serious incidents might not seem a lot, but comparing the number of journeys these things undertake, to other modes of transport might show that it is a significant amount.

As a taxi driver, I never saw them as competition. What stuck in my craw was the inequity of the thing. There are tight controls on some methods of passenger transport, yet these things get by on a street traders licence. Why one rule for one and another rule for someone else?

No disrespect mate, but you are taking quite a tetchy approach to this subject. I laid my cards on the table and said that I can't stand rickshaws as I had to deal with them on a nightly basis.

How come you know so much about them?

I think you need regulation where it's needed and don't where it's not, if that makes sense!

If some big lad wanted to make a few quid by giving people fireman's lifts home after a night out then that'd be fine by me - I wouldn't have thought he'd need to be regulated. With that sort of thing you take your chances and if the punter wants it then fine, if not, he'd soon disappear.

I think two majorish incidents is a very insignificant level compared to the amount of trips these things must make.

I don't know so much about them at all, other than regularly seeing them in the streets in a number of cities. I think that taxi drivers complaining about these thing being a nuisance to the rest of the traffic is a bit ironic! I realise they need to do certain things to do their job, just like the riskshaws, but it can still be annoying as well.

[RyeSloan]

By your argument then, nothing needs to be regulated - people can choose whatever mode of transport they want. Two serious incidents might not seem a lot, but comparing the number of journeys these things undertake, to other modes of transport might show that it is a significant amount.

As a taxi driver, I never saw them as competition. What stuck in my craw was the inequity of the thing. There are tight controls on some methods of passenger transport, yet these things get by on a street traders licence. Why one rule for one and another rule for someone else?
No disrespect mate, but you are taking quite a tetchy approach to this subject. I laid my cards on the table and said that I can't stand rickshaws as I had to deal with them on a nightly basis.

How come you know so much about them?

Because one has a fck off deisel motor in it which can propel the occupants at motorway speed, the other is powered by a bike that's why.


The regualtion I'd like to impose is that they shouldn't be allowed on public highways without insurance; I'd like the drivers to be subject to the same police checks that taxi drivers are; I'd like the vehicles to have to meet the same safety standards as taxis. I'd also like them to have insurance like taxis do.

Do you know what insurance the operator is required to have?

The drivers ARE subject to to police checks

How can a bike have the same saftey standards as a vehicle? By this logic no one should be allowed to ride any mode of transport that did not have seatbelts and £30,000 worth of coachworks


I take your point that if there is improvements that can be made to make these safer then they should be done but it sounds to me that you really just want to see them gone completely either way.

[J-C]

I think you need regulation where it's needed and don't where it's not, if that makes sense!

If some big lad wanted to make a few quid by giving people fireman's lifts home after a night out then that'd be fine by me - I wouldn't have thought he'd need to be regulated. With that sort of thing you take your chances and if the punter wants it then fine, if not, he'd soon disappear.

I think two majorish incidents is a very insignificant level compared to the amount of trips these things must make.

I don't know so much about them at all, other than regularly seeing them in the streets in a number of cities. I think that taxi drivers complaining about these thing being a nuisance to the rest of the traffic is a bit ironic! I realise they need to do certain things to do their job, just like the riskshaws, but it can still be annoying as well.

Unlike the so called guy giving firman's lifts, these are mechanical modes of transport and as such should be regulated to ensure they are of a fit and reasonable state to do the job they are providing, just like taxi's which goes through one of the most rigerous tests every year, to ensure their roadworthyness.

Tell me how taxi's doing a job on the highways of this city are a nuisance, we have to ferry passenger from a-b, and the majority of these journey's the passenger has to be at their destination by a certain time, hence the need for a taxi. We attempt to get through the heavy traffic as quickly and safely as possible, occassionally doing u turns and occassionally having to force our way into traffic due to the incredible ignorance of most drivers on the road nowadays.

So the next time your in a huge rush to get to an important meeting or to catch a plane, we could just drive like an old granny, stuck behind all the other cars in traffic, not attempt to get you there on time........or we can drive the way we always have by being professional, quick and using our brains and get you there in plenty of time and stress free.

[Jack]

If these things are providing a service for the public then its only right there is some form of regulation on the ‘drivers’ and the equipment they use.

I would suggest that as the council are responsible for ensuring taxis, private and min-cabs, and drivers are safe then they should be responsible in the same way for ensuring the public are safe in these rickshaws.

The public have a right to be as safe as possible when paying, p!shed or not.

I think the argument of only 2 major incidents in 10 years as a good thing and comparing this to taxis (I haven’t heard of any major taxi incidents / accidents in Edinburgh over the last 10 years where there has been permanent disablement or death) is a nonsense particularly if you also consider the passenger:mile ratio of each mode of transport.

I think I’m really quite shocked to read that there is no regulation.

[heretoday]

Remember that the next time it's 1.30am, your cold, drunk and want to get home, it is our right to not pick you up if you've been drinking, are on drugs or your appearance is dishevelled and smelly.

I said rickshaws! Someone is mucking about with other people's posts!

Black cabs are the salt of the earth - though a bit pricey.....

[J-C]

I said rickshaws! Someone is mucking about with other people's posts!

Black cabs are the salt of the earth - though a bit pricey.....


Not as pricey as some places, If I remember correctly we're the 26th dearest in Britain, we only get a rise every 18 months or so, when prices go up we get left behind, just like at the moment when fuel prices have gone through the roof.

[speedy_gonzales]

Tell me how taxi's doing a job on the highways of this city are a nuisance,
<snip>
We attempt to get through the heavy traffic as quickly and safely as possible, occassionally doing u turns and occassionally having to force our way into traffic due to the incredible ignorance of most drivers on the road nowadays.

This thread was about rickshaws but for whatever reason taxis have come into it, SO, 'how are taxis a nuisance?'.
Well, for me it's a perceived nuisance, let's say a taxi driver does an 8 hour shift, 5 days a week. Although s/he's a professional driver they are human and make one oversight or error of judgement for every hour they drive, or let's even say for every shift they complete. After all, we're all human, and I've yet to see a taxi driver that signals their intentions every time they carry out a turn or manoeuvre. So, they've made one mistake but to the driver of the car behind them on their half hour jaunt to the shops all taxi drivers are @$£%&"s!
I spend a fair bit of time on the roads but would not class myself as a professional driver, I know for a fact I have made mistakes but that doesn't make me immune from venting my spleen when I see bus/taxi/truck drivers cutting me up, jumping lights etc.

Incidentally JC50, what incredible ignorance displayed by other drivers allows you to force your way into traffic?

[J-C]

This thread was about rickshaws but for whatever reason taxis have come into it, SO, 'how are taxis a nuisance?'.
Well, for me it's a perceived nuisance, let's say a taxi driver does an 8 hour shift, 5 days a week. Although s/he's a professional driver they are human and make one oversight or error of judgement for every hour they drive, or let's even say for every shift they complete. After all, we're all human, and I've yet to see a taxi driver that signals their intentions every time they carry out a turn or manoeuvre. So, they've made one mistake but to the driver of the car behind them on their half hour jaunt to the shops all taxi drivers are @$£%&"s!
I spend a fair bit of time on the roads but would not class myself as a professional driver, I know for a fact I have made mistakes but that doesn't make me immune from venting my spleen when I see bus/taxi/truck drivers cutting me up, jumping lights etc.

Incidentally JC50, what incredible ignorance displayed by other drivers allows you to force your way into traffic?


Don't get me wrong there are some sheite taxi drivers out there, the majority are fairly decent though.

The 8 hr shift you speak of isn't driving constantly for that length of time, a lot of it is sitting at ranks waiting for aa fare of the street or the radio.
I may only do 80 miles in those 8 hours and only say 16-20 fares, so really I'm driving around half of the actual time I'm on the road, hence we don't have tachograph because we're not driving the same as lorry drivers.

When I say forcing, well let me give you a scenario........ I've dropped someone off, I wish to pull out of the kerb and join the traffic, I have my indicator on but the majority of the drivers seem to ignore it and keep driving even though the traffic is crawling really slowly. Ocassionally someone flashes and lest me out, normally though I could sit there for a good few minutes, so I have to nudge out a little so eventually a car has to let me out. This is a ploy used by all buses, they indicate and pull out in one maneouvre due to their size, you don't argue, you let them out, unfortunately we're not that size so we have to wait until we're let out.

Remember most people in their cars are using them for either pleasure or to ferry themselves to work etc, we are actually driving for a living, so we may be trying to get to our next fare or even attempting to get someone to a destination by a certain time, other drivers don't realise this.

[Hibs Class]

Don't get me wrong there are some sheite taxi drivers out there, the majority are fairly decent though.

The 8 hr shift you speak of isn't driving constantly for that length of time, a lot of it is sitting at ranks waiting for aa fare of the street or the radio.
I may only do 80 miles in those 8 hours and only say 16-20 fares, so really I'm driving around half of the actual time I'm on the road, hence we don't have tachograph because we're not driving the same as lorry drivers.

When I say forcing, well let me give you a scenario........ I've dropped someone off, I wish to pull out of the kerb and join the traffic, I have my indicator on but the majority of the drivers seem to ignore it and keep driving even though the traffic is crawling really slowly. Ocassionally someone flashes and lest me out, normally though I could sit there for a good few minutes, so I have to nudge out a little so eventually a car has to let me out. This is a ploy used by all buses, they indicate and pull out in one maneouvre due to their size, you don't argue, you let them out, unfortunately we're not that size so we have to wait until we're let out.

Remember most people in their cars are using them for either pleasure or to ferry themselves to work etc, we are actually driving for a living, so we may be trying to get to our next fare or even attempting to get someone to a destination by a certain time, other drivers don't realise this.


It's not quite a ploy; the highway code states:

"Buses, coaches and trams. Give priority to these vehicles when you can do so safely, especially when they signal to pull away from stops."

So drivers are encouraged to give way to buses, but there's no similar provision for taxis. So whilst some drivers may choose to not give way to taxis (possibly because they take exception to "a little nudging") it doesn't indicate ignorance.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think you need regulation where it's needed and don't where it's not, if that makes sense!

If some big lad wanted to make a few quid by giving people fireman's lifts home after a night out then that'd be fine by me - I wouldn't have thought he'd need to be regulated. With that sort of thing you take your chances and if the punter wants it then fine, if not, he'd soon disappear.

I think two majorish incidents is a very insignificant level compared to the amount of trips these things must make.

I don't know so much about them at all, other than regularly seeing them in the streets in a number of cities. I think that taxi drivers complaining about these thing being a nuisance to the rest of the traffic is a bit ironic! I realise they need to do certain things to do their job, just like the riskshaws, but it can still be annoying as well.

I think a pragmatic approach would be to let the Rickshaws operate within clearly defined areas. The Royal Mile and George Street would pose less risk of a nasty accident than letting them onto busier thoroughfares like Queen Street and Lothian Road. Ferrying people to the rugby is another dangerous venture.

As they are street traders, I think their remit is to provide entertainment within a set area. I've looked at one of their websites and they are offering city tours. That can't be done safely when they have to mix with other, faster moving traffic, and when they don't have any requirement to demonstrate road sense.

The problem has been that they haven't had clear boundaries imposed on them. That's why I wonder how valid their insurance is. I'd have thought insurers would look for some operating conditions. It's a requirement that every taxi displays its public liability certificate, I cant say I've seen anything like that on the rickshaws.

The whole thing is a mess, generated by a council that has taken a laissez faire attitude towards anything connected to tourism (except taxis and buses). Does anyone know what a street traders licence entails? I'm thinking that it wouldn't be something that could be transferred from one part of the town to the other.

On the subject of taxi drivers' standards. I think the people I would like to judge that are bus drivers, or the police, who spend a lot of time driving in the city. A lot of frustration from other drivers comes from the fact that cabs have priviliges like using the bus lanes

[J-C]

It's not quite a ploy; the highway code states:

"Buses, coaches and trams. Give priority to these vehicles when you can do so safely, especially when they signal to pull away from stops."

So drivers are encouraged to give way to buses, but there's no similar provision for taxis. So whilst some drivers may choose to not give way to taxis (possibly because they take exception to "a little nudging") it doesn't indicate ignorance.


Yes give them priority to a certain extent but surely the bus driver has to ensure safety before pulling out, it should never be done in one movement.
The other problem here is most people don't see taxi's as a form of public transport, I would love to see the actual totals for passengers ferried on a daily basis, I bet the taxi's are fairly high if not higher than the bus service.
We are allowed access to the greenways because we are the official taxi service of Edinburgh and our license is as an Edinburgh Public Service Vehicle, we don't go in these lanes to pee people off, we're allowed in them.

[Andy74]

Don't get me wrong there are some sheite taxi drivers out there, the majority are fairly decent though.

The 8 hr shift you speak of isn't driving constantly for that length of time, a lot of it is sitting at ranks waiting for aa fare of the street or the radio.
I may only do 80 miles in those 8 hours and only say 16-20 fares, so really I'm driving around half of the actual time I'm on the road, hence we don't have tachograph because we're not driving the same as lorry drivers.

When I say forcing, well let me give you a scenario........ I've dropped someone off, I wish to pull out of the kerb and join the traffic, I have my indicator on but the majority of the drivers seem to ignore it and keep driving even though the traffic is crawling really slowly. Ocassionally someone flashes and lest me out, normally though I could sit there for a good few minutes, so I have to nudge out a little so eventually a car has to let me out. This is a ploy used by all buses, they indicate and pull out in one maneouvre due to their size, you don't argue, you let them out, unfortunately we're not that size so we have to wait until we're let out.

Remember most people in their cars are using them for either pleasure or to ferry themselves to work etc, we are actually driving for a living, so we may be trying to get to our next fare or even attempting to get someone to a destination by a certain time, other drivers don't realise this.

Why is it up to other drivers to care about the fact that you are working?

We all have somewhere to go, for whatever reason. Cab drivers happen to be working but you have no more rights on the road than anyone else.

It's interesting to hear that you actually think that way, proves to me why a lot of cab drivers act as they do on the roads.

[Beefster]

Yes give them priority to a certain extent but surely the bus driver has to ensure safety before pulling out, it should never be done in one movement.
The other problem here is most people don't see taxi's as a form of public transport, I would love to see the actual totals for passengers ferried on a daily basis, I bet the taxi's are fairly high if not higher than the bus service.
We are allowed access to the greenways because we are the official taxi service of Edinburgh and our license is as an Edinburgh Public Service Vehicle, we don't go in these lanes to pee people off, we're allowed in them.

I'd imagine that this is because 99% of encounters with buses show that they are carrying passengers whereas less than half of taxis encountered are carrying passengers at the time and, when they do have passengers, are probably carrying no more people than the cars around them.

Taxis are great when you want to get somewhere faster than a bus but they are not public transport in the 'mass transportation' manner of the word.

Edit: Wikipedia doesn't even include taxis as 'public transport'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport

[J-C]

Why is it up to other drivers to care about the fact that you are working?

We all have somewhere to go, for whatever reason. Cab drivers happen to be working but you have no more rights on the road than anyone else.

It's interesting to hear that you actually think that way, proves to me why a lot of cab drivers act as they do on the roads.

My point being if you listen is we generally have to do u turns, or get from one place to another a little more quickly than the general public on the road, this may look like we are driving in the manner you think but in reality we are overly cautious due to the fact we are driving in heavy traffic on a regular basis.
Yes you all have some where to go and usually you'll get there in around 15-25 minutes, end of journey, when infact we have numerous journey's to go on, maybe up to 20 per day.
I don't get this "way I think" bit, please expand, we don't own the roads but as regular professional drivers we are more aware of what goes on around us, the roadworks and are well informed regarding any delays on these roads, we are out doing a job and have to negociate all these hazards while doing so, if we drive a bit more agressively then other drivers, then there's a reason for that. 80% of drivers drive with their heads in the clouds, never noticing signs, roadworks, what's happening around them, this clogs up our roads, add to that the influx of tourists with hire cars and the multitude of buses clogging the city centre, then you'll understand why we drive the way we do.
Take your car out one day, and do 20 journeys, all have a specific time to do them in, stop occasionally for 10 15 mins between each journey, then come back and tell me how your day was, did your driving change because of the traffic and where you able to get each journey done on time.

[J-C]

I'd imagine that this is because 99% of encounters with buses show that they are carrying passengers whereas less than half of taxis encountered are carrying passengers at the time and, when they do have passengers, are probably carrying no more people than the cars around them.

Taxis are great when you want to get somewhere faster than a bus but they are not public transport in the 'mass transportation' manner of the word.

Edit: Wikipedia doesn't even include taxis as 'public transport'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport)


There are approx 1500 taxi's in Edinburgh, each one working around 20hrs a day with 2 drivers per cab, obviously each journey can have differing amount of passengers but lets say 2 per journey. Multiply that by say around 40 fares, that gives you around 120,000 passengers per day, obviously this is a rough guess as some taxi's are only single shifted and there are quiet and busy times of the week, so lats say 100,000 passengers per day, or 700,000 per week. I think you'll agree that constitutes public transport.

[speedy_gonzales]

It's not quite a ploy; the highway code states:

"Buses, coaches and trams. Give priority to these vehicles when you can do so safely, especially when they signal to pull away from stops."


I've said it before(elsewhere) and I'll say it again, the highway code is merely a modern day book of ettiquette for road users. A lot of the points are enforced/backed by law but not all. Therefore if someone chooses NOT to let that bus out, then they 'aint doing anything wrong.
Personally if I can let someone out, or cede way safely, then I will but what I don't do is make a judgement on whether they need to be somewhere faster/quicker than me.

As an aside, can any black cab drivers explain the need to travel at 40mph along Corstorphine road, especially heading east past the zoo? I observe greenways and drive in them when they are not in operation but on more than one occasion a black cab has come roaring up behind me, flashed his lights, overtook then swung back into the greenway and proceeded to accelerate away. Obviously you're not all like this but I'd love to understand the reasoning and acceptance that greenways have a different maximum speed limit for some road users!??!

[Beefster]

There are approx 1500 taxi's in Edinburgh, each one working around 20hrs a day with 2 drivers per cab, obviously each journey can have differing amount of passengers but lets say 2 per journey. Multiply that by say around 40 fares, that gives you around 120,000 passengers per day, obviously this is a rough guess as some taxi's are only single shifted and there are quiet and busy times of the week, so lats say 100,000 passengers per day, or 700,000 per week. I think you'll agree that constitutes public transport.

Private cars will carry more than that a day so no, I don't agree that taxis are public transport.

Here's the Cambridge dictionary's definition of public transport:


public transport noun [U] UK (US public transportation)
a system of vehicles such as buses and trains which operate at regular times on fixed routes and are used by the public

[Sergio sledge]

My point being if you listen is we generally have to do u turns, or get from one place to another a little more quickly than the general public on the road, this may look like we are driving in the manner you think but in reality we are overly cautious due to the fact we are driving in heavy traffic on a regular basis.
Yes you all have some where to go and usually you'll get there in around 15-25 minutes, end of journey, when infact we have numerous journey's to go on, maybe up to 20 per day.
I don't get this "way I think" bit, please expand, we don't own the roads but as regular professional drivers we are more aware of what goes on around us, the roadworks and are well informed regarding any delays on these roads, we are out doing a job and have to negociate all these hazards while doing so, if we drive a bit more agressively then other drivers, then there's a reason for that.

Yup, there is a reason for that, the reason being that the quicker you can do your fares in, the more fares you can pick up and the more money you earn. That's why taxi drivers do u turns on the road in the middle of traffic instead of finding a safe quiet place to turn. That's why some taxi drivers pull out into moving traffic and expect the car behind to give way to them. That's why some taxi drivers will stop in ridiculous and dangerous places to pick up or drop off fares.


80% of drivers drive with their heads in the clouds, never noticing signs, roadworks, what's happening around them, this clogs up our roads, add to that the influx of tourists with hire cars and the multitude of buses clogging the city centre, then you'll understand why we drive the way we do.
Take your car out one day, and do 20 journeys, all have a specific time to do them in, stop occasionally for 10 15 mins between each journey, then come back and tell me how your day was, did your driving change because of the traffic and where you able to get each journey done on time.

80% of drivers? Where did that figure come from? That's the sort of attitude that some people get annoyed at from taxi drivers, a kind of "I'm a better driver than the rest of you, so if you see me doing something and have to take evasive action, its your fault and not mine..." This may not be how you feel, but it is how you are coming accross in this thread.

[Andy74]

My point being if you listen is we generally have to do u turns, or get from one place to another a little more quickly than the general public on the road, this may look like we are driving in the manner you think but in reality we are overly cautious due to the fact we are driving in heavy traffic on a regular basis.
Yes you all have some where to go and usually you'll get there in around 15-25 minutes, end of journey, when infact we have numerous journey's to go on, maybe up to 20 per day.
I don't get this "way I think" bit, please expand, we don't own the roads but as regular professional drivers we are more aware of what goes on around us, the roadworks and are well informed regarding any delays on these roads, we are out doing a job and have to negociate all these hazards while doing so, if we drive a bit more agressively then other drivers, then there's a reason for that. 80% of drivers drive with their heads in the clouds, never noticing signs, roadworks, what's happening around them, this clogs up our roads, add to that the influx of tourists with hire cars and the multitude of buses clogging the city centre, then you'll understand why we drive the way we do.
Take your car out one day, and do 20 journeys, all have a specific time to do them in, stop occasionally for 10 15 mins between each journey, then come back and tell me how your day was, did your driving change because of the traffic and where you able to get each journey done on time.

I've rarely read such pish.

I could equally say try driving to work, work a full day and then have to drive home. You'd have as much right as a taxi to get pissed off with the traffic and other drivers? Each driver has their own reason for being on the road. You make it sound like everyone else is just out for a laugh. Total nonsense.

You know the conditions you work in, that's no excuse to drive any differently from anyone else.

[Jack]

Ah the great taxi driver debate! Normal driver here. :agree:

It is really appalling how many drivers drive these days, all sorts of drivers and we’re all bound by the same laws and regulations which so many choose to ignore – like creeping out into moving traffic. :grr:

As a non-taxi driver I would say that aggressive driving by taxi drivers conspires against them in that other drivers will be less courteous towards them leading to a never ending downward spiral. And because taxis all generally look the same other drivers tar them all the same brush as the worse ones. Ok maybe only 80%. :greengrin

Maybe if taxi drivers, as professional drivers that should lead by example, showed courtesy and respect for other road users then that would be reflected in how they themselves are treated leading to a quicker and more pleasurable driving experience all round.

:faf: Nah! Thought not.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Talk about an ironic twist to the story:



TRAGIC soldier Christopher O'Kane saw his mother killed in a road accident when he was just nine years old, moments after the pair stepped out of a taxi, it has emerged.

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/edinburgh/Rickshaw-death-soldier-saw-mum.6215494.jp

[J-C]

Yup, there is a reason for that, the reason being that the quicker you can do your fares in, the more fares you can pick up and the more money you earn. That's why taxi drivers do u turns on the road in the middle of traffic instead of finding a safe quiet place to turn. That's why some taxi drivers pull out into moving traffic and expect the car behind to give way to them. That's why some taxi drivers will stop in ridiculous and dangerous places to pick up or drop off fares.

So the next time you jump in a taxi and want to go the opposite direction, Ill not do a u turn then, instead I'll drive 400yds, take a left, drive say another 400 yds, then another left, drive further 400 yds until we arrive back at our original pick up point, the I'll do a right turn onto the direction you wanted to go. This'll be around an extra 60-80p on your journey, or since my taxi has been built with a very short turning circle for just this scenario, I can do a u turn and go directly to your destination.


80% of drivers? Where did that figure come from? That's the sort of attitude that some people get annoyed at from taxi drivers, a kind of "I'm a better driver than the rest of you, so if you see me doing something and have to take evasive action, its your fault and not mine..." This may not be how you feel, but it is how you are coming accross in this thread.


Show me exatly where I said this, or are you just making it up?

---------- Post added at 05:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:02 PM ----------


Talk about an ironic twist to the story:



http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/edinburgh/Rickshaw-death-soldier-saw-mum.6215494.jp (http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/edinburgh/Rickshaw-death-soldier-saw-mum.6215494.jp)


Read it earlier, very tragic, dropped off on the A1 and seemingly heavy winds blew her onto oncoming traffic, so sad.

[legends of 73]

Don't get me wrong there are some sheite taxi drivers out there, the majority are fairly decent though.

The 8 hr shift you speak of isn't driving constantly for that length of time, a lot of it is sitting at ranks waiting for aa fare of the street or the radio.
I may only do 80 miles in those 8 hours and only say 16-20 fares, so really I'm driving around half of the actual time I'm on the road, hence we don't have tachograph because we're not driving the same as lorry drivers.

When I say forcing, well let me give you a scenario........ I've dropped someone off, I wish to pull out of the kerb and join the traffic, I have my indicator on but the majority of the drivers seem to ignore it and keep driving even though the traffic is crawling really slowly. Ocassionally someone flashes and lest me out, normally though I could sit there for a good few minutes, so I have to nudge out a little so eventually a car has to let me out. This is a ploy used by all buses, they indicate and pull out in one maneouvre due to their size, you don't argue, you let them out, unfortunately we're not that size so we have to wait until we're let out.

Remember most people in their cars are using them for either pleasure or to ferry themselves to work etc, we are actually driving for a living, so we may be trying to get to our next fare or even attempting to get someone to a destination by a certain time, other drivers don't realise this.



your wasting your time mate people hate us ,think we all live in bungalows and have 3 holidays a year if only.

i'd swap anyone for a day i'll do your job and let them do mines lets see what the comments and reaction would be after that.

[Phil D. Rolls]

your wasting your time mate people hate us ,think we all live in bungalows and have 3 holidays a year if only.

i'd swap anyone for a day i'll do your job and let them do mines lets see what the comments and reaction would be after that.

I gave it up to save the planet mate, all those exotic holidays were taking their toll on my carbon footprint.

[Hibs Class]

I've said it before(elsewhere) and I'll say it again, the highway code is merely a modern day book of ettiquette for road users. A lot of the points are enforced/backed by law but not all. Therefore if someone chooses NOT to let that bus out, then they 'aint doing anything wrong.
Personally if I can let someone out, or cede way safely, then I will but what I don't do is make a judgement on whether they need to be somewhere faster/quicker than me.

As an aside, can any black cab drivers explain the need to travel at 40mph along Corstorphine road, especially heading east past the zoo? I observe greenways and drive in them when they are not in operation but on more than one occasion a black cab has come roaring up behind me, flashed his lights, overtook then swung back into the greenway and proceeded to accelerate away. Obviously you're not all like this but I'd love to understand the reasoning and acceptance that greenways have a different maximum speed limit for some road users!??!


I agree. My point was that the HC does make reference to buses, but it doesn't make similar reference to taxis, therefore JC50's observation about buses was pretty much irrelevant.

[New Corrie]

I am going to try and jump to the defence of the "black cab" trade here without being deemed a racist!...Any journey I make in a "traditional cab" of which there are many, involve drivers with proper vehicles who know where they are going, generally acting in a professional manner,

When I ask one of the barstaff in my local for a cab home....what turns up is a car that wouldn't look out of place on Bernard Hunter's scales with a driver that can't speak English who has turned the meter on well before he picks me up, then drives aimlessly, pissing about with his Tom Tom trying to fiind that really hard destination........Glasgow Road!! I am absolutely astonished that genuine Taxi drivers have to adhere to the most stringent of standards , yet the Private Hire Trade is flooded with people who are driving about in old squibs and they can't even speak English!!!!

[Pete]

your wasting your time mate people hate us ,think we all live in bungalows and have 3 holidays a year if only.

i'd swap anyone for a day i'll do your job and let them do mines lets see what the comments and reaction would be after that.

10/10

I'd like one of these smarmy gits who spend no more than two hours on the road a day maximum and slope off to their cushty wee salaried job spend a day in my shoes and work for the minimum wage.

Twelve hours trying to be all things to all men and you have to negociate around people who shouldn't be allowed on the road. Grannies in Micras who can't even see and people who are colourblind when it comes to the white markings on the road.

For some it's simply a mode of transport but for others the roads are where we ply our trade and make our living.

You'll never understand until you've tried it.

I've made roughly £150 before tax for about 60 hours work this week. Would any of you pricks who complain work for that?

[Sergio sledge]

Show me exatly where I said this, or are you just making it up?

---------- Post added at 05:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:02 PM ----------



I didn't say you said that, read my post again before jumping to conclusions!

I said that's how you were coming accross in the thread, by saying that taxi drivers are proffessional drivers and so are more aware and better drivers than this magical "80%" you picked out of thin air of drivers who don't pay any attention to what's going on around them on the road!

If you read my post again, I said "this may not be how you feel, but it is how you are coming accross in this thread."

oh and for all you "I'd like to see them try this job for a day," or "I work for minimum wage so you lot have no right to complain," taxi drivers are in the service industry, customer feedback should be a large part of your job, so if you can't take a little criticism, then you shouldn't be in your job. Oh, and I hope I never see you criticising any of the Hibs players, management staff or other staff, because "I'd like to see you try their job for a day!"

[Pete]

oh and for all you "I'd like to see them try this job for a day," or "I work for minimum wage so you lot have no right to complain," taxi drivers are in the service industry, customer feedback should be a large part of your job, so if you can't take a little criticism, then you shouldn't be in your job. Oh, and I hope I never see you criticising any of the Hibs players, management staff or other staff, because "I'd like to see you try their job for a day!"


No offence but you have no idea about the amount of stick we take.

You know nothing about the edinburgh taxi trade. Who the **** are you to tell me I shouldn't be working in the trade? Some 25 year old boy who isn't even wet behind the ears?

Get lost son.

[Betty Boop]

I am going to try and jump to the defence of the "black cab" trade here without being deemed a racist!...Any journey I make in a "traditional cab" of which there are many, involve drivers with proper vehicles who know where they are going, generally acting in a professional manner,

When I ask one of the barstaff in my local for a cab home....what turns up is a car that wouldn't look out of place on Bernard Hunter's scales with a driver that can't speak English who has turned the meter on well before he picks me up, then drives aimlessly, pissing about with his Tom Tom trying to fiind that really hard destination........Glasgow Road!! I am absolutely astonished that genuine Taxi drivers have to adhere to the most stringent of standards , yet the Private Hire Trade is flooded with people who are driving about in old squibs and they can't even speak English!!!!

I use Private Hire cabs quite a lot, and have never been in one which could be termed as a squib, or where the driver couldn't speak English. Most people use Private Hire because they are generally cheaper than black cabs.

[Sergio sledge]

No offence but you have no idea about the amount of stick we take.

You know nothing about the edinburgh taxi trade. Who the **** are you to tell me I shouldn't be working in the trade? Some 25 year old boy who isn't even wet behind the ears?

Get lost son.

:faf: ok, well let me know when I'll be old enough to criticise the untouchable, minimum wage earning, salt of the earth taxi drivers, from my "custy wee salaried job" and I'll come back to pass comment!

Also, can you let me know when I'll be old enough to criticise shop staff for bad service, or the trains for being late, or hibs for performing poorly, or bar staff for poor service, or a chef for a poor meal, it would be much appreciated! I genuinely didn't know that there was an age criteria for criticism oh revered old one....

[J-C]

I use Private Hire cabs quite a lot, and have never been in one which could be termed as a squib, or where the driver couldn't speak English. Most people use Private Hire because they are generally cheaper than black cabs.


Therein lies another problem, average private hire car cost say £7,000 with no taxi brief..........black taxi cost new £32,000....second hand £20-25,000 with taxi brief that has taken around 3-6 months to earn depending on the individual drivers brain.............that's why we don't give cheap fares, which are set by the council, you pay for the service you get and it's a professional service we provide.

[J-C]

No offence but you have no idea about the amount of stick we take.

You know nothing about the edinburgh taxi trade. Who the **** are you to tell me I shouldn't be working in the trade? Some 25 year old boy who isn't even wet behind the ears?

Get lost son.


The amazing thing about this laddie is he lives in Inverness and not Edinburgh but feels this is enough to slag off the taxi trade here, erse. :grr:

I bet Inverness is a doddle to drive around on a regular basis eh!

[Betty Boop]

Therein lies another problem, average private hire car cost say £7,000 with no taxi brief..........black taxi cost new £32,000....second hand £20-25,000 with taxi brief that has taken around 3-6 months to earn depending on the individual drivers brain.............that's why we don't give cheap fares, which are set by the council, you pay for the service you get and it's a professional service we provide.

I understand all that, but unfortunately for me, every pound is a prisoner. :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

I use Private Hire cabs quite a lot, and have never been in one which could be termed as a squib, or where the driver couldn't speak English. Most people use Private Hire because they are generally cheaper than black cabs.

A common misconception. They work off the same fare tariff as the black cabs do. In addition, when you get into a black cab, the driver has done the knowledge, and he knows that if he goes by anything other than the shortest route, he could lose his licence.

A lot of private hire cars are nice vehicles driven by polite and semi-knowledgeable people. However the fact that someone who has just arrived in the city, or who has just lost their job can get a licence to drive one without any test, has to mean that there are a lot of the drivers who don't know their way about.

What makes some PHC firms "cheaper" is the suicidal discounting they do on fares. I'd suggest though, that if the guys are losing 30% of what's on the meter, they'll be making it up other ways. The easiest way to screw the customer is by bumping up the extras - few passengers understand how they work, or even check them.

This thing about taxi drivers being loaded is a load of rubbish. I can make as much in the NHS on minimum wage, plus shift allowances as I could driving a cab. In addition, I know what I have coming in every week.

[steakbake]

Therein lies another problem, average private hire car cost say £7,000 with no taxi brief..........black taxi cost new £32,000....second hand £20-25,000 with taxi brief that has taken around 3-6 months to earn depending on the individual drivers brain.............that's why we don't give cheap fares, which are set by the council, you pay for the service you get and it's a professional service we provide.

I like the chat of an Edinburgh taxi driver. It's like the living manifestation of the Evening News.

[J-C]

I understand all that, but unfortunately for me, every pound is a prisoner. :greengrin


Which is understandable, the private hire trade is riddled with gangsters at the moment, and the council allowing one of the companies to give discounts shows what little brown envelopes slipped into back pockets can do. :confused:
All meters are the same whether it's a black cab or private hire, unfortunately they are now discounting fares.

---------- Post added at 10:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 AM ----------

[steakbake]

A common misconception. They work off the same fare tariff as the black cabs do. In addition, when you get into a black cab, the driver has done the knowledge, and he knows that if he goes by anything other than the shortest route, he could lose his licence.

A lot of private hire cars are nice vehicles driven by polite and semi-knowledgeable people. However the fact that someone who has just arrived in the city, or who has just lost their job can get a licence to drive one without any test, has to mean that there are a lot of the drivers who don't know their way about.

What makes some PHC firms "cheaper" is the suicidal discounting they do on fares. I'd suggest though, that if the guys are losing 30% of what's on the meter, they'll be making it up other ways. The easiest way to screw the customer is by bumping up the extras - few passengers understand how they work, or even check them.

This thing about taxi drivers being loaded is a load of rubbish. I can make as much in the NHS on minimum wage, plus shift allowances as I could driving a cab. In addition, I know what I have coming in every week.

Private hire drivers are mental. Any Tom Dick or Harriet could be one. Seriously had a conversation thus with one a few months ago:

"Where you going?"
"Inverleith please, near the botanics"
"Is that down Leith Walk?"
"Eh, no. End of Dundas Street then left onto Inverleith Row"
"Dundas Street. Is that the one near Fountain Park?".

Clueless without satnav. My directions are maybe not all there, but an Embra cabbie wouldn't need to ask and would know the difference between Dundas and Dundee.

[Betty Boop]

A common misconception. They work off the same fare tariff as the black cabs do. In addition, when you get into a black cab, the driver has done the knowledge, and he knows that if he goes by anything other than the shortest route, he could lose his licence.

A lot of private hire cars are nice vehicles driven by polite and semi-knowledgeable people. However the fact that someone who has just arrived in the city, or who has just lost their job can get a licence to drive one without any test, has to mean that there are a lot of the drivers who don't know their way about.

What makes some PHC firms "cheaper" is the suicidal discounting they do on fares. I'd suggest though, that if the guys are losing 30% of what's on the meter, they'll be making it up other ways. The easiest way to screw the customer is by bumping up the extras - few passengers understand how they work, or even check them.

This thing about taxi drivers being loaded is a load of rubbish. I can make as much in the NHS on minimum wage, plus shift allowances as I could driving a cab. In addition, I know what I have coming in every week.

This may be true. I have a discount card for Speedline cabs, who give you 25% off your fare.

[steakbake]

:confused::confused::confused:
Who exactly are you??

I'm a regular 'fare'. Calm down - it wasn't meant as an insult. I generally like Edinburgh cabbies and the chat is usually spot on.

There are an alarming number of jambo cabbies and they're usually more deluded than most. Too much time listening to Talk Sport and not enough fresh air, I reckon.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Private hire drivers are mental. Any Tom Dick or Harriet could be one. Seriously had a conversation thus with one a few months ago:

"Where you going?"
"Inverleith please, near the botanics"
"Is that down Leith Walk?"
"Eh, no. End of Dundas Street then left onto Inverleith Row"
"Dundas Street. Is that the one near Fountain Park?".

Clueless without satnav.

I was driving a cab that had sat nav in it for a while. I used to have a wee laugh by matching the sat nav's recommended route to the one I was taking. It was invariably longer and would have been more expensive for the passenger if I'd followed it.

Here's a tip for anyone getting in a cab. Never tell the driver the best route to go - 99/100 he knows a lot better than you, and your route will always cost you more.

(I will now step back as a rush of posts fly in telling me how a driver took them the "long" way home.)

[steakbake]

I was driving a cab that had sat nav in it for a while. I used to have a wee laugh by matching the sat nav's recommended route to the one I was taking. It was invariably longer and would have been more expensive for the passenger if I'd followed it.

Here's a tip for anyone getting in a cab. Never tell the driver the best route to go - 99/100 he knows a lot better than you, and your route will always cost you more.

(I will now step back as a rush of posts fly in telling me how a driver took them the "long" way home.)

What were your pet themes of chat?

[Phil D. Rolls]

What were your pet themes of chat?

Blacks, poofs, chinkies, cripples, lesbians, social workers, immigrants, rickshaws, Iraq, trams, the council, opening times, rickshaws, the festival, jambos, pubs, rickshaws, romanov, my old mum, modern art, benefits, rapists, paedos, rickshaws.

(I made some of that up).

[steakbake]

Blacks, poofs, chinkies, cripples, lesbians, social workers, immigrants, rickshaws, Iraq, trams, the council, opening times, rickshaws, the festival, jambos, pubs, rickshaws, romanov, my old mum, modern art, benefits, rapists, paedos, rickshaws.

(I made some of that up).

Sounds good. Just about covers the full range. Do you have a section in taxi school where your chat is tested?

For example, do you have to go from immigration via modern art and arrive at the liberal elite?

[J-C]

I'm a regular 'fare'. Calm down - it wasn't meant as an insult. I generally like Edinburgh cabbies and the chat is usually spot on.

There are an alarming number of jambo cabbies and they're usually more deluded than most. Too much time listening to Talk Sport and not enough fresh air, I reckon.

Deleted it when I realised that mate. :greengrin

---------- Post added at 10:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 AM ----------


I was driving a cab that had sat nav in it for a while. I used to have a wee laugh by matching the sat nav's recommended route to the one I was taking. It was invariably longer and would have been more expensive for the passenger if I'd followed it.

Here's a tip for anyone getting in a cab. Never tell the driver the best route to go - 99/100 he knows a lot better than you, and your route will always cost you more.

(I will now step back as a rush of posts fly in telling me how a driver took them the "long" way home.)

I did that at first, funny to see how far out of your way it takes you.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Sounds good. Just about covers the full range. Do you have a section in taxi school where your chat is tested?

For example, do you have to go from immigration via modern art and arrive at the liberal elite?

Immigration via modern art? That their latest trick is it gov? I tell you what I'd do wiv em......'ad that Eugene Terreblanche in the back of my cab last week, absolute gentleman.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Deleted it when I realised that mate. :greengrin

---------- Post added at 10:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 AM ----------



I did that at first, funny to see how far out of your way it takes you.

Mind you, it can work against you too. I had to take blood from the RIE to the Vic in Kirkcaldy. Imagine my dismay when the sat nav recommended that I go through town, shaving 12 miles off the journey?

Naturally, I weighed up the urgency of the job (some poor kiddy maybe bleeding to death) and opted for the longer - but quicker route. City bypass, M8, M9, South Queensferry, M90, that road that goes through the middle of Fife. Then the ultimate irony - the sat nav couldn't find the hospital when I got to Kirkcaldy.

If I'd used the sat nav I'd have had to go by Burntisland. Sod the extra £25 on the fare, it was that little kiddy and his mother and father I was thinking of. Some people think cabbies have no heart, but it's not true.

[J-C]

Mind you, it can work against you too. I had to take blood from the RIE to the Vic in Kirkcaldy. Imagine my dismay when the sat nav recommended that I go through town, shaving 12 miles off the journey?

Naturally, I weighed up the urgency of the job (some poor kiddy maybe bleeding to death) and opted for the longer - but quicker route. City bypass, M8, M9, South Queensferry, M90, that road that goes through the middle of Fife. Then the ultimate irony - the sat nav couldn't find the hospital when I got to Kirkcaldy.

If I'd used the sat nav I'd have had to go by Burntisland. Sod the extra £25 on the fare, it was that little kiddy and his mother and father I was thinking of. Some people think cabbies have no heart, but it's not true.

Must admit the only time my sat nav is on is when I get an airport job out of town, very handy for other towns etc.

[Jack]

Some people think cabbies have no heart, but it's not true.


You're absolutely right. :agree:

There have been times when I’ve seen a cabbie at the end of their shift putting it back in :faf:

[Sergio sledge]

The amazing thing about this laddie is he lives in Inverness and not Edinburgh but feels this is enough to slag off the taxi trade here, erse. :grr:

I bet Inverness is a doddle to drive around on a regular basis eh!

Ah ok, so now we have to be a certain age to criticise, AND currently reside in Edinburgh? Does the fact that I lived in Edinburgh for over half my life allow me to comment, or is this not long enough for you? I'm also down in Edinburgh for work at least twice a month and still have family who live in the city and have lived there their whole lives. Am I qualified to pass comment or not? Please let me know so that I don't make the grave error of being too young or not currently living in Edinburgh again when discussing Edinburgh related issues.

Inverness is easy to drive round, don't see what relevance that is to this whole discussion, but just to keep it relevant, Inverness is a simple city to drive round, and yet I have seen numerous near misses caused by idiotic taxi drivers! What a shock eh?

[J-C]

Ah ok, so now we have to be a certain age to criticise, AND currently reside in Edinburgh? Does the fact that I lived in Edinburgh for over half my life allow me to comment, or is this not long enough for you? I'm also down in Edinburgh for work at least twice a month and still have family who live in the city and have lived there their whole lives. Am I qualified to pass comment or not? Please let me know so that I don't make the grave error of being too young or not currently living in Edinburgh again when discussing Edinburgh related issues.

Inverness is easy to drive round, don't see what relevance that is to this whole discussion, but just to keep it relevant, Inverness is a simple city to drive round, and yet I have seen numerous near misses caused by idiotic taxi drivers! What a shock eh?

Called you laddie as I'm 51 and your 25, the same age as my son, so don't get on your wee high horse and start this ageist crap, also don't start making statement about things you know sod all about re the taxi trade, unless you've worked in it or had any bad experiences through it.

Oh and the magical 80% is the percentage that I as a taxi driver think are pish or crap drivers on the road, so no you'll not find it printed in any survey, just my opinion as someone who works 6 days a week and 10 hrs a day driving for a living.

[speedy_gonzales]

As an aside, can any black cab drivers explain the need to travel at 40mph along Corstorphine road, especially heading east past the zoo?

Ahem!

Taxi Accident near zoo (http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Passengers-hurt-in-taxi-accident.6217712.jp)

Obviously we don't know what happened, who was responsible or what 'kind' of taxi was involved, rather ironic all the same!

[J-C]

Ahem!

Taxi Accident near zoo (http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Passengers-hurt-in-taxi-accident.6217712.jp)

Obviously we don't know what happened, who was responsible or what 'kind' of taxi was involved, rather ironic all the same!


The answer is in the reply section of Evening news online......

The black taxi driver was heading west with 2 young ladies in the greenway, when a car did a left turn into Downie Ter from the right hand lane. The taxi swerved hit the car doing the left turn, swerved some more, hit a parked car and post before landing on it's side 40 yds away. There was many eye witnesses who agreed it was the car doing the left turn without looking that was at fault and thankfully only minor injuries were incurred.

[Hibs Class]

The answer is in the reply section of Evening news online......

The black taxi driver was heading west with 2 young ladies in the greenway, when a car did a left turn into Downie Ter from the right hand lane. The taxi swerved hit the car doing the left turn, swerved some more, hit a parked car and post before landing on it's side 40 yds away. There was many eye witnesses who agreed it was the car doing the left turn without looking that was at fault and thankfully only minor injuries were incurred.

It did all that in a 30MPH zone? That sounds like the car chase from the French Connection, not some minor greenways bump! :devil:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Ahem!

Taxi Accident near zoo (http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Passengers-hurt-in-taxi-accident.6217712.jp)

Obviously we don't know what happened, who was responsible or what 'kind' of taxi was involved, rather ironic all the same!

Taxi overturns, two people have minor injuries.
Rickshaw overturns man dies.

[J-C]

It did all that in a 30MPH zone? That sounds like the car chase from the French Connection, not some minor greenways bump! :devil:


Oh right he was a taxi driver so obviously he was driving at 60 mph, braking the law and weaving in and out of traffic.......No really, I misread the post, it was 40 ft not yds.:greengrin

[Woody1985]

10/10

I'd like one of these smarmy gits who spend no more than two hours on the road a day maximum and slope off to their cushty wee salaried job spend a day in my shoes and work for the minimum wage.

Twelve hours trying to be all things to all men and you have to negociate around people who shouldn't be allowed on the road. Grannies in Micras who can't even see and people who are colourblind when it comes to the white markings on the road.

For some it's simply a mode of transport but for others the roads are where we ply our trade and make our living.

You'll never understand until you've tried it.

I've made roughly £150 before tax for about 60 hours work this week. Would any of you pricks who complain work for that?

Get another job and stop bleating how crap your wages are! :confused:

[steakbake]

Taxi overturns, two people have minor injuries.
Rickshaw overturns man dies.

Man fell out of rickshaw pursuing skirt, according to witnesses.

It's the mode of transport that's the problem, not necessarily the drivers.

[J-C]

Get another job and stop bleating how crap your wages are! :confused:


I think he's trying to show that taxi driving isn't the lucrative job it used to be, just a normal paid job nowadays and not what people think it is.

[Sergio sledge]

Called you laddie as I'm 51 and your 25, the same age as my son, so don't get on your wee high horse and start this ageist crap, also don't start making statement about things you know sod all about re the taxi trade, unless you've worked in it or had any bad experiences through it.

Oh and the magical 80% is the percentage that I as a taxi driver think are pish or crap drivers on the road, so no you'll not find it printed in any survey, just my opinion as someone who works 6 days a week and 10 hrs a day driving for a living.

Em, if you'd been paying attention to other posts in this thread you'd have seen that it was another taxi driving poster who suggested I wasn't old enough! I'm not on a high horse, purely highlighting how ridiculous it sounds suggesting I'm not allowed to criticise, one person becaus I'm not old enough, and another (you) because you've made silly assumptions about me based on my current location!

Your last paragraph shows exactly the attitude which winds a lot of people up about taxi drivers. You've decided that you are a better driver than 80% of people on the roads, and a previous post you suggested taxi drivers have more of a right to be on the road because it is where you earn your living. You have no more of a right to bo on the road than the rest of us.

[Woody1985]

I think he's trying to show that taxi driving isn't the lucrative job it used to be, just a normal paid job nowadays and not what people think it is.

Fair enough but calling people pricks is a bit extreme. They're obviously frustrated at their position but I'm sure they'll have other transferable skills if they can no longer stay in the trade.

[Judas Iscariot]

Crock of absolute *****e.

Black cabs have ferried me home after many a night out/to the airport several times.

I wouldn't dream of getting in one of these shoogly rickshaw things, which are almost invariably driven by "carefree" (read: reckless) students who seem more occupied in bantering with their fellow rickshaw drivers/pished customers than keeping an eye on the road ahead.

Learn to drive then you peasant.

[J-C]

Em, if you'd been paying attention to other posts in this thread you'd have seen that it was another taxi driving poster who suggested I wasn't old enough! I'm not on a high horse, purely highlighting how ridiculous it sounds suggesting I'm not allowed to criticise, one person becaus I'm not old enough, and another (you) because you've made silly assumptions about me based on my current location!

Your last paragraph shows exactly the attitude which winds a lot of people up about taxi drivers. You've decided that you are a better driver than 80% of people on the roads, and a previous post you suggested taxi drivers have more of a right to be on the road because it is where you earn your living. You have no more of a right to bo on the road than the rest of us.


A lie

I have just re read the entire thread and nowhere did I suggest this, fool. :grr:

[ArabHibee]

A lie

I have just re read the entire thread and nowhere did I suggest this, fool. :grr:

Said in a BA Baracus voice? :wink:

[J-C]

Said in a BA Baracus voice? :wink:


just noticed that. :faf:

[ArabHibee]

Maybe this (http://media.photobucket.com/image/i%20pity%20the%20fool/petluvins/PityTheFool.jpg) on a t-shirt, JC50?

:greengrin

[Sergio sledge]

A lie

I have just re read the entire thread and nowhere did I suggest this, fool. :grr:

How about this post then?


Don't get me wrong there are some sheite taxi drivers out there, the majority are fairly decent though.

The 8 hr shift you speak of isn't driving constantly for that length of time, a lot of it is sitting at ranks waiting for aa fare of the street or the radio.
I may only do 80 miles in those 8 hours and only say 16-20 fares, so really I'm driving around half of the actual time I'm on the road, hence we don't have tachograph because we're not driving the same as lorry drivers.

When I say forcing, well let me give you a scenario........ I've dropped someone off, I wish to pull out of the kerb and join the traffic, I have my indicator on but the majority of the drivers seem to ignore it and keep driving even though the traffic is crawling really slowly. Ocassionally someone flashes and lest me out, normally though I could sit there for a good few minutes, so I have to nudge out a little so eventually a car has to let me out. This is a ploy used by all buses, they indicate and pull out in one maneouvre due to their size, you don't argue, you let them out, unfortunately we're not that size so we have to wait until we're let out.

Remember most people in their cars are using them for either pleasure or to ferry themselves to work etc, we are actually driving for a living, so we may be trying to get to our next fare or even attempting to get someone to a destination by a certain time, other drivers don't realise this.

Your last paragraph especially suggests you feel this way and should be allowed to drive forcefully and other drivers should give way to you or let you out into moving traffic because you are earning a living on the roads and time is of the essence for you whereas for others it isn't. Certainly suggests you feel the you should have priority on the roads!

Care to take back the lie accusation and the name calling? It's pretty pathetic to have to resort to calling people names really....

[J-C]

How about this post then?



Your last paragraph especially suggests you feel this way and should be allowed to drive forcefully and other drivers should give way to you or let you out into moving traffic because you are earning a living on the roads and time is of the essence for you whereas for others it isn't. Certainly suggests you feel the you should have priority on the roads!

Care to take back the lie accusation and the name calling? It's pretty pathetic to have to resort to calling people names really....


You obviously have difficulty with your reading, by saying that I drive a bit more forcibly on the roads due to the lack of ignorance or cluelessness of other drivers, isn't the same as me saying I have more right to the roads. You should get about more, try driving in Paris, Rome, Madrid, London, New York etc then come back and tell me what driving with force is like.

I think my friend you are an arse looking for an excuse for an argument and I will not be commenting on any more of your posts as I have a life to lead, which doesn't include arguing with a 25yr old laddie in Inverness ( or some times Edinburgh ).

Bye bye. :bye::bye:

[lyonhibs]

The answer is in the reply section of Evening news online......

The black taxi driver was heading west with 2 young ladies in the greenway, when a car did a left turn into Downie Ter from the right hand lane. The taxi swerved hit the car doing the left turn, swerved some more, hit a parked car and post before landing on it's side 40 yds away. There was many eye witnesses who agreed it was the car doing the left turn without looking that was at fault and thankfully only minor injuries were incurred.

I know a work mate of the 2 girls involved.

The taxi was definitely not at fault in this instance.

[Beefster]

You obviously have difficulty with your reading, by saying that I drive a bit more forcibly on the roads due to the lack of ignorance or cluelessness of other drivers, isn't the same as me saying I have more right to the roads. You should get about more, try driving in Paris, Rome, Madrid, London, New York etc then come back and tell me what driving with force is like.

I think my friend you are an arse looking for an excuse for an argument and I will not be commenting on any more of your posts as I have a life to lead, which doesn't include arguing with a 25yr old laddie in Inverness ( or some times Edinburgh ).

Bye bye. :bye::bye:

You acknowledge that you drive aggressively so don't moan when folk won't yield to you or give you abuse.

[speedy_gonzales]

The taxi was definitely not at fault in this instance.

Sincerely not looking for a petty argument here with any taxi drivers, but when you are driving along a green lane, and you see a car ahead on the RHS indicating to take the next available exit on the left, does the taxi cede way or, in a roundabout way, force the car to slow to a stop in the outside lane then take the left once the taxi/bus clears?
My opinion is, from experience, the vehicle on the inside lane has right of way, BUT, at some junctions the green lane ends with a dashed white line that is akin to a giveway line you'd find at most T junctions. Are these observed as such?

[J-C]

You acknowledge that you drive aggressively so don't moan when folk won't yield to you or give you abuse.

I ain't moaning, just don't like being accused of owning the roads when those words were never typed, sticking to facts in posts rather than assuming what I may have meant are two different things.

Also there's aggressive driving, like a nutter and and driving forcibly which enables you to get around town quicker and easier but hey, lets all slag off taxi drivers, until you yourself want one to get you to the airport or hospital on time, then it's all good for us to get there as quickly as possible, cause it's you that's in the taxi.

Talk about double standards, the next time a cabbie says sorry mate, cant go any faster as it's against the law and you miss your flight or appointment, well it's called tough.

Tell me, what do you do for a living, so we can have a good old slagging off at that for a wee while.

[J-C]

Sincerely not looking for a petty argument here with any taxi drivers, but when you are driving along a green lane, and you see a car ahead on the RHS indicating to take the next available exit on the left, does the taxi cede way or, in a roundabout way, force the car to slow to a stop in the outside lane then take the left once the taxi/bus clears?
My opinion is, from experience, the vehicle on the inside lane has right of way, BUT, at some junctions the green lane ends with a dashed white line that is akin to a giveway line you'd find at most T junctions. Are these observed as such?


Generally I would flash the driver to let him know it's ok to turn left.

The greenway needs improved, especially near a junction where the greenway should end a lot sooner to allow other vehicle to enter the lane to turn left.

This is what probably happened here, the greenway doesn't allow you enough room to get into the lane to turn and literally finishes 10 yds from the junction and people don't get into the lane in time, or cut across as what happened here.

Another problem you get is people still drive in greenways after the rush hour times, which again causes problems, specially with left turns. There have been numerous accidents at the David Lloyd in Glasgow road with people turning left into the gym from the right hand lane.

[speedy_gonzales]

There have been numerous accidents at the David Lloyd in Glasgow road with people turning left into the gym from the right hand lane.
Dinnae get me started on David Lloyd! Clearly signed no right turn into here if heading east on Glasgow Road, or right turns if heading out of DL, but you still get folk doing it. They must think they're like ninja's, nobody can see them, but on more than one occasion I've nearly hit one side on as they cut across my bow or worse('cause it's my fault) I've nearly rear ended someone as they drop anchor and commit an illegal right turn! Grrr!

[Scouse Hibee]

Generally I would flash the driver to let him know it's ok to turn left.

The greenway needs improved, especially near a junction where the greenway should end a lot sooner to allow other vehicle to enter the lane to turn left.

This is what probably happened here, the greenway doesn't allow you enough room to get into the lane to turn and literally finishes 10 yds from the junction and people don't get into the lane in time, or cut across as what happened here.

Another problem you get is people still drive in greenways after the rush hour times, which again causes problems, specially with left turns. There have been numerous accidents at the David Lloyd in Glasgow road with people turning left into the gym from the right hand lane.

:agree: The same as the idiots who don't use the greenways when they are permitted to and then give out abuse to those who can read the times displayed. On the topic of taxi drivers, I have no problem with their driving methods as I drive exactly the same in my own car and use what many drivers sadly lack....anticipation of other road users.

[Phil D. Rolls]

:agree: The same as the idiots who don't use the greenways when they are permitted to and then give out abuse to those who can read the times displayed. On the topic of taxi drivers, I have no problem with their driving methods as I drive exactly the same in my own car and use what many drivers sadly lack....anticipation of other road users.

I was driving in a greenway at a time when it was allowed. When it came time to merge back into traffic, some eejit in a white van refused to let me out.

I asked him why, at the next lights. When he told me it was because I was driving in the bus lane, I told him he either couldn't read or he couldn't tell the time.

Needless to say, he still insisted he was right. What is it with these guys that take on themselves to become enforcers on the road?

[Sergio sledge]

You obviously have difficulty with your reading, by saying that I drive a bit more forcibly on the roads due to the lack of ignorance or cluelessness of other drivers, isn't the same as me saying I have more right to the roads. You should get about more, try driving in Paris, Rome, Madrid, London, New York etc then come back and tell me what driving with force is like.

I have driven in Paris and Rome, also Turin, Berlin, Istanbul, Orlando, Miami, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool and by far the worst city of the lot, due to some daft cyclists, Oxford. Does this qualify me to comment yet?

Sorry, but your post that I quoted, and especially the last paragraph, certainly does indicate you have some greater right to drive the way you do. I have no problem with reading at all. If you cant see the implications of what you are posting, then you need to think things through properly before posting them so that they do not imply things that you do not feel.


I think my friend you are an arse looking for an excuse for an argument and I will not be commenting on any more of your posts as I have a life to lead, which doesn't include arguing with a 25yr old laddie in Inverness ( or some times Edinburgh ).

Bye bye. :bye::bye:

Oh dear, someone is throwing their toys out of the pram a little aren't we? I'm not out looking for an argument, I have much better things to do with my time than argue on an internet messageboard with a touchy 51 year old taxi driver who cannot argue without petty name calling and spitting the dummy out.

The only reason I have continued this with you is because you have been getting personal by calling me names and suggesting I'm a liar. The fact that you think you are a better driver than 80% of people on the roads, and believe it is ok for you to drive aggressively because of the "ignorance" of other drivers for having the temerity to drive past you without letting you out is slightly annoying, but not as annoying as needlessly being called an "erse," "fool" and a liar.

For your information, and so that you know exactly why I get annoyed at taxi drivers having the attitude that your posts inplied you had, I have had 3 accidents in 8 years of driving. The first was caused by me driving too fast when I was just passed my driving test. Minor damage to the car and a slightly bruised ego was all I got from that one. The other two were both within the last 3 years, and both in Edinburgh. Surprise, Surprise they were both caused by taxi drivers. (Police were involved and the taxi drivers ended up getting charged with careless driving in both cases, and I had to be a witness in court at one of the cases) Both taxi drivers at the scene were aggressive towards me and blamed me. Both taxi drivers at the scene said I should have been paying more attention and that they had a job to do and needed to get their fare to a certain place on time. Both of them blamed me. Thankfully there were enough witnesses to both accidents that agreed with me, and the taxi drivers insurance eventually had to pay up to get my cars repaired. In the mean time, I had to 3 months in one case without a drivable car, because I couldn't afford to pay for the repair myself.

I don't know why I'm posting this, because you've already spat the dummy like a two year old and decided not to reply to any of my posts, but it does feel good to get it off my chest.

Oh, and as for one of your other posts, I'm a consulting building services engineer, so feel free to have a good slagging session if you want. I'll try to come on and defend my profession, but unlike you, I wont take it personally and start name calling!

[speedy_gonzales]

Oh, and as for one of your other posts, I'm a consulting building services engineer, so feel free to have a good slagging session if you want.

Pffft! My wife's one of those for Blyth & Blyth, she's rubbish at driving too:thumbsup:

[Sergio sledge]

Pffft! My wife's one of those for Blyth & Blyth, she's rubbish at driving too:thumbsup:

:greengrin Thats probably more to do with her being a woman than a building services engineer though..... :wink:

[J-C]

I have driven in Paris and Rome, also Turin, Berlin, Istanbul, Orlando, Miami, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool and by far the worst city of the lot, due to some daft cyclists, Oxford. Does this qualify me to comment yet?

Sorry, but your post that I quoted, and especially the last paragraph, certainly does indicate you have some greater right to drive the way you do. I have no problem with reading at all. If you cant see the implications of what you are posting, then you need to think things through properly before posting them so that they do not imply things that you do not feel.



Oh dear, someone is throwing their toys out of the pram a little aren't we? I'm not out looking for an argument, I have much better things to do with my time than argue on an internet messageboard with a touchy 51 year old taxi driver who cannot argue without petty name calling and spitting the dummy out.

The only reason I have continued this with you is because you have been getting personal by calling me names and suggesting I'm a liar. The fact that you think you are a better driver than 80% of people on the roads, and believe it is ok for you to drive aggressively because of the "ignorance" of other drivers for having the temerity to drive past you without letting you out is slightly annoying, but not as annoying as needlessly being called an "erse," "fool" and a liar.

For your information, and so that you know exactly why I get annoyed at taxi drivers having the attitude that your posts inplied you had, I have had 3 accidents in 8 years of driving. The first was caused by me driving too fast when I was just passed my driving test. Minor damage to the car and a slightly bruised ego was all I got from that one. The other two were both within the last 3 years, and both in Edinburgh. Surprise, Surprise they were both caused by taxi drivers. (Police were involved and the taxi drivers ended up getting charged with careless driving in both cases, and I had to be a witness in court at one of the cases) Both taxi drivers at the scene were aggressive towards me and blamed me. Both taxi drivers at the scene said I should have been paying more attention and that they had a job to do and needed to get their fare to a certain place on time. Both of them blamed me. Thankfully there were enough witnesses to both accidents that agreed with me, and the taxi drivers insurance eventually had to pay up to get my cars repaired. In the mean time, I had to 3 months in one case without a drivable car, because I couldn't afford to pay for the repair myself.

I don't know why I'm posting this, because you've already spat the dummy like a two year old and decided not to reply to any of my posts, but it does feel good to get it off my chest.

Oh, and as for one of your other posts, I'm a consulting building services engineer, so feel free to have a good slagging session if you want. I'll try to come on and defend my profession, but unlike you, I wont take it personally and start name calling!



Ah! so the truth comes out, 2 accidents with Taxi's, the drivers blame you but to be honest I don't care who actually caused them as it's not important as far as I'm concerned, but then you decide all taxi drivers are arrogant *******s who deserve all they get.

Me, I've been driving for 34 years and as yet I'm still to have my first accident, not bad for someone who as far aas you're concerned drives like a lunatic who owns the roads.

Your last paragraph means nowt to me as my comment on other peoples jobs was aimed at someone else but to be honest i have no problem with what you do as I know little of what your job entails.


Oh, please try to deal in facts, much easier to interpret instead of assumptions and what you thought I may have meant when I posted something, don't try to read into what isn't there, it causes a lot problems later and when you say I said somthing which isn't in print it's called a lie.

[Ally]

Don't have a problem with Edinburgh's taxi drivers, why are Glasgow's so much cheaper though?

[J-C]

Don't have a problem with Edinburgh's taxi drivers, why are Glasgow's so much cheaper though?

Don't know the answer sorry, our prices are determined by the council and not us, some people don't realise this.

Maybe it's to do with the private hire trade in Glasgow, controlled by gangsters and giving huge discounts.

[lapsedhibee]

Don't have a problem with Edinburgh's taxi drivers, why are Glasgow's so much cheaper though?

Average house price in Glasgow: £135,784.
Average house price in Edinburgh: £209,456.

To be able to afford the very very fancy houses that Edinburgh cabbies live in, they obviously have to charge a lot more. :agree: :wink:

[J-C]

Average house price in Glasgow: £135,784.
Average house price in Edinburgh: £209,456.

To be able to afford the very very fancy houses that Edinburgh cabbies live in, they obviously have to charge a lot more. :agree: :wink:


If only it were true, I think they are the same price during the day but our initial hire charge at night is 50p more, you can do so much with an extra 50p per fare. :wink:

[Jack]

Don't know the answer sorry, our prices are determined by the council and not us, some people don't realise this.

Maybe it's to do with the private hire trade in Glasgow, controlled by gangsters and giving huge discounts.

That’s not strictly speaking true is it?

I seem to recall from previous discussions that the meter rate is the maximum that cabbies can charge. So in fact cabbies can charge anything they like up to that fare.

[number 27]

Ah! so the truth comes out, 2 accidents with Taxi's, the drivers blame you but to be honest I don't care who actually caused them as it's not important as far as I'm concerned, but then you decide all taxi drivers are arrogant *******s who deserve all they get.



So maybe you would agree it is also a bit unreasonable to slate all Ricksaw drivers after one incident. :dunno:

[J-C]

So maybe you would agree it is also a bit unreasonable to slate all Ricksaw drivers after one incident. :dunno:

Don't think we slated all rickshaw drivers, we just stated that there should be more legislation and control to make sure they are safe and roadworthy, so this tragedy doesn't happen again.

We have all had experiences with these rickshaw's and to be honest not all of them are good, that's why the big outcry.

---------- Post added at 10:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 AM ----------


That’s not strictly speaking true is it?

I seem to recall from previous discussions that the meter rate is the maximum that cabbies can charge. So in fact cabbies can charge anything they like up to that fare.


Yes we could give discounts but why should we.

[Phil D. Rolls]

So maybe you would agree it is also a bit unreasonable to slate all Ricksaw drivers after one incident. :dunno:

My main gripe is that the things are not a safe mode of transport on the roads they drive them on. The drivers - who on the whole are nice, well meaning young men, albeit with very little between the ears are a secondary issue.

If they weren't driving on public highways there would be no issue about their abilities. However, as it stands some of them are "driving" on the roads and carrying passengers for money without having had to meet any driving standards at all. Not even a cycling proficiency test.

You say one incident, but it was one that was all too predictable and resulted in a death. That makes it serious enough to suggest a rethink of their conditions of use.

After all, if a restaurant poisoned its customers, it would be closed down.

This isn't a case of cabbies seeing Rickshaws as a threat to their livlihood, it is a result of seeing the way they behave on a regular basis. With respect, someone who is in the same environment as them every day of the week, observing them on the road, deserves to be take with a bit more credence than people who drive in town, late at night on a less frequent basis.

People can moan all they want about cabbie's driving skills, or lack of. At the end of the day though cabbies are regulated - to ensure public safety. The rickshaws aren't and that is the issue that is most concerning.

[Twa Cairpets]

10/10

I'd like one of these smarmy gits who spend no more than two hours on the road a day maximum and slope off to their cushty wee salaried job spend a day in my shoes and work for the minimum wage.

Twelve hours trying to be all things to all men and you have to negociate around people who shouldn't be allowed on the road. Grannies in Micras who can't even see and people who are colourblind when it comes to the white markings on the road.

For some it's simply a mode of transport but for others the roads are where we ply our trade and make our living.

You'll never understand until you've tried it.

I've made roughly £150 before tax for about 60 hours work this week. Would any of you pricks who complain work for that?

At the slight risk of a thread hijack here, this is one of the most arrogant pieces of inverse snobbery Ive ever read.

If you don't like what you do, don't do it. Why don't you go for one of these "cushty wee salaried jobs" if they are so much better? Or maybe you dont understand them because you havent tried it.

Blaming the financial unfairness of your job on everyone elses choice of vocation is, frankly, verging on the pathetic.

Incidentally, as it is clearly important to you, I've averaged about 25-30,000 miles a year over the last 20 years, and guess what? There are good taxi drivers and bad ones, good occasional drivers and bad ones, good high mileage drivers and bad ones. You remember the incidents that reconfirm your prejudices,and forget those that dont, thats just the way it works.

[Jack]

Yes we could give discounts but why should we.

Perhaps being a little pedantic here but you said in the earlier post that the council fix the rates.

In actual fact the council fix the highest rate a cabby can charge, its up to the individual driver how much, up to that rate, they actually charge.

I didn’t mention discounts, why should you give discounts? Do you think discounts would work in some circumstances?

[Woody1985]

Yes we could give discounts but why should we.

I must admit that I never knew that taxi's could offer discounts on their rates and always thought they were fixed based on the time of day/night and the rate they had to charge.

Before I go on I want to point out that these are just some of my thoughts in general and not meant to be critical in any way but may open some discussion.

I assume that every black cab is effectively running an unofficial cartel where they all fix their prices at the maximum they are allowed.

They could compete but I think it would an ineffective strategy for them and I can understand why they wouldn't.

How would an individual driver propose to market his slightly cheaper taxi fares? Would anyone really care about saving 50p on a fare given that it's more expensive that regular modes of (public (lets call it that for the sake of arguement just now)) transport anyway?

I know that I wouldn't be waiting around in hope I can get another cab to save myself 50p.

What does strike me as a bit cheeky from cab drivers is the recent response to the private hire industry offering discounted fairs and complaining how they can't compete. Well, the opportunity is there for you to compete (with the ability to lower fare) but you choose not to.

I understand that it may no longer be a worthy profession if you were to lower fares but that's the nature of a free market. Either adapt to the market and the demand for it's services or go out of business, that's what every other self employed person has to do.

But please don't try and patronise us with the 'We don't want gangsters running the show' when in truth you couldn't give a rats ass who runs it as long as you are able to maintain or increase your current income levels (which is only natural). I appreciate that you are trained to a higher level than the PH drivers but to be honest, every time I've had a PH driver they've knew the direction as often as the black cabs drivers I've had.

I have no real preference over PH or black cabs as they get me from A to B. I do prefer the comfy PH motors though.

As for Rickshaws, they're expensive novelties that are generally driven by Aussie backpackers/students in my experience. They do take some amount of crap from people! Blame the company operators for not employing the correctly qualified staff (you should at least have a UK driving license IMO) rather than the drivers trying to make a few quid.

[J-C]

Perhaps being a little pedantic here but you said in the earlier post that the council fix the rates.

In actual fact the council fix the highest rate a cabby can charge, its up to the individual driver how much, up to that rate, they actually charge.

I didn’t mention discounts, why should you give discounts? Do you think discounts would work in some circumstances?


There's no higher or lower rate at all, the meter is fixed, you pay for the initial hire charge then it goes up after every few hundred yds, the meter is fixed, sealed and tamper proof. Out of town work is set at approx £2.50 per mile, this can be negotiated a little as the job is not metered, unlike all other town jobs which are. What some private hire companies are doing is giving you discount, so if the job is say £10.00, they're taking 25% offmaking it £7.50. Now we could start doing that but why should we start cutting our prices, which the council agreed to in the first place, we as a taxi trade were against this action by the council but little brown envelopes inthe back of pockets count for a lot these days.

Discounts are given to large companies as it gaurantee's work, usually the discount is purely a no call out charge which is 80p.

[Woody1985]

There's no higher or lower rate at all, the meter is fixed, you pay for the initial hire charge then it goes up after every few hundred yds, the meter is fixed, sealed and tamper proof. Out of town work is set at approx £2.50 per mile, this can be negotiated a little as the job is not metered, unlike all other town jobs which are. What some private hire companies are doing is giving you discount, so if the job is say £10.00, they're taking 25% offmaking it £7.50. Now we could start doing that but why should we start cutting our prices, which the council agreed to in the first place, we as a taxi trade were against this action by the council but little brown envelopes inthe back of pockets count for a lot these days.

Discounts are given to large companies as it gaurantee's work, usually the discount is purely a no call out charge which is 80p.

Hi JC,

I'd be interested in some of your opinions on my thoughts/points I raised above. From your earlier post, the council have agreed a maximum rate, not the rate that should be charged so you do have the freedom to change and it shouldn't automatically be taken as 'well the council said we can so we will', but as I've said, I understand why you do.

[Beefster]

There's no higher or lower rate at all, the meter is fixed, you pay for the initial hire charge then it goes up after every few hundred yds, the meter is fixed, sealed and tamper proof. Out of town work is set at approx £2.50 per mile, this can be negotiated a little as the job is not metered, unlike all other town jobs which are. What some private hire companies are doing is giving you discount, so if the job is say £10.00, they're taking 25% offmaking it £7.50. Now we could start doing that but why should we start cutting our prices, which the council agreed to in the first place, we as a taxi trade were against this action by the council but little brown envelopes inthe back of pockets count for a lot these days.

Discounts are given to large companies as it gaurantee's work, usually the discount is purely a no call out charge which is 80p.

The council agreed to maximum prices though, no? It's not the same thing as agreeing an actual price to be charged.

As for 'why should we drop your prices from the maximum permitted', it's called competition but I can see why there's no need for a black cab to drop them as most folk grab the first one they see on the street. Where there's genuine competition (i.e. business bookings), as you've said, cheaper prices are given. Fair dos.

By the way, I'm a business analyst. If you've ever dealt with a process or system in a financial organisation, it's likely that 'my kind' designed and implemented it. Feel free to rip my job all you want.

[J-C]

Hi JC,

I'd be interested in some of your opinions on my thoughts/points I raised above. From your earlier post, the council have agreed a maximum rate, not the rate that should be charged so you do have the freedom to change and it shouldn't automatically be taken as 'well the council said we can so we will', but as I've said, I understand why you do.

The fares are fixed, end of.

All meters are set and sealed, so no one can tamper with them. You have a daytime and a nighttime rate( slightly higher ), if you phone for a taxi, you'll be charged 80p, this is to cover the cost of the radio in the cab. When you phone for a taxi there are usually around 7-10 people answering phone depending on the time of day, also we have office staff, premises, sales people to employ and marketing ( posters,radio etc ). This all costs money to operate and each taxi in the company pays radio dues ( around £500 per month ) to cover these costs, so an 80p charge is added when you phone for a taxi.

Inside each taxi there will be a piece of paper on one of the doors marking out all fares and prices, this is a legel document from the council and every taxi has to have one on show at all times. As I said out of town jobs are based on mileage and prices can be negotiated with the driver, as these are not metered fares.

The maximum rate you talk of is the fare shown on the meter after the journey has ended, some PH's are now discounting these fares, hence the reason the 2 largest taxi companies have started tlks looking to merge in an attempt to fight off compitition from them.

It is also well known that some unsavoury characters have recently bought into the private hire business, especially galling since Edinburgh Council said that what happened in Glasgow would never happen here.:wink:

[J-C]

The council agreed to maximum prices though, no? It's not the same thing as agreeing an actual price to be charged.

As for 'why should we drop your prices from the maximum permitted', it's called competition but I can see why there's no need for a black cab to drop them as most folk grab the first one they see on the street. Where there's genuine competition (i.e. business bookings), as you've said, cheaper prices are given. Fair dos.

By the way, I'm a business analyst. If you've ever dealt with a process or system in a financial organisation, it's likely that 'my kind' designed and implemented it. Feel free to rip my job all you want.


Bit of sarcasm mate, I couldn't care less what anyone does for a living, we all have to live, just don't see the need to get too personal that's all.:wink:

[Woody1985]

The fares are fixed, end of.

All meters are set and sealed, so no one can tamper with them. You have a daytime and a nighttime rate( slightly higher ), if you phone for a taxi, you'll be charged 80p, this is to cover the cost of the radio in the cab. When you phone for a taxi there are usually around 7-10 people answering phone depending on the time of day, also we have office staff, premises, sales people to employ and marketing ( posters,radio etc ). This all costs money to operate and each taxi in the company pays radio dues ( around £500 per month ) to cover these costs, so an 80p charge is added when you phone for a taxi.

Inside each taxi there will be a piece of paper on one of the doors marking out all fares and prices, this is a legel document from the council and every taxi has to have one on show at all times. As I said out of town jobs are based on mileage and prices can be negotiated with the driver, as these are not metered fares.

The maximum rate you talk of is the fare shown on the meter after the journey has ended, some PH's are now discounting these fares, hence the reason the 2 largest taxi companies have started tlks looking to merge in an attempt to fight off compitition from them.

It is also well known that some unsavoury characters have recently bought into the private hire business, especially galling since Edinburgh Council said that what happened in Glasgow would never happen here.:wink:

Sorry JC, you're original statement was ambiguous. Where you said that 'Why should we offer discounted fares'.

So are you saying that you can ONLY offer discounts on out of town journies in the black cabs and not those in town?

But the PH firms can offer discounts both in and out of town?

If so, going back to your statement 'Why should we offer discounted fares', you are opposing the PH right to offer discounted fares, not because you want to compete with their lower fares but to ensure that they charge the same rate as the black cabs. Therefore, eliminating one of the key differentiators in business and custom; Cost. This would indicate that you want everything to be based on quality of service. The only winner on the black cabs would get, IMO, is the fact that I can get them on the street and don't have to phone and then wait around (ironically I tend to use comcabs unless I'm going somewhere local, when I use Bluebird).

I really could understand your frustration if you were willing to look at allowing the in town fares to be amended to allow discount but it doesn't seem like you want competition. And I completely understand that you need to go through the extra training and expenditure to obtain a black cab license.

However, it comes back to a point I made (as did you) in reply to the other driver. You can change your profession. You could even become a PH driver with the extra skills that you have over them.

[Sergio sledge]

Ah! so the truth comes out, 2 accidents with Taxi's, the drivers blame you but to be honest I don't care who actually caused them as it's not important as far as I'm concerned, but then you decide all taxi drivers are arrogant *******s who deserve all they get.

I didn't decide that at all, now you are doing exactly what you have accused me of doing and putting words into my mouth. I would hope that if you look back through my posts you would see that I have said "some taxi drivers" and not "all taxi drivers." If I have missed that out at any point, or given the impression that I feel this applies to all taxi drivers then I apologise, it wasnt my intention. I've had many good experiences with taxi drivers, especially the one who took me from Perth to Inverness at 11pm one night as my train was delayed and I missed the last train up to Inverness. (It must be said that the train company paid the £250 odd fare, not me.....:greengrin)


Me, I've been driving for 34 years and as yet I'm still to have my first accident, not bad for someone who as far aas you're concerned drives like a lunatic who owns the roads.

I'm glad you've not had any accidents in that long a time, you must be doing something right! I hope that I never have another accident, as its not something I would wish to go through again.

I also didn't say I thought you drive like a lunatic, again you are doing exactly what you were accusing me of, and putting words in my mouth! :wink:


Your last paragraph means nowt to me as my comment on other peoples jobs was aimed at someone else but to be honest i have no problem with what you do as I know little of what your job entails.

I was just throwing that in to be fair, I've had a fair old rip into your job, so its only fair you have the chance to rip into mine. Although to be honest, I usually find when I mention my job, its a sure fire conversation stopper, as no-one seems to know what it is, and when I try to explain it everyone falls asleep!:greengrin



Oh, please try to deal in facts, much easier to interpret instead of assumptions and what you thought I may have meant when I posted something, don't try to read into what isn't there, it causes a lot problems later and when you say I said somthing which isn't in print it's called a lie.

I'm not being flippant here, but your postings did imply a certain attitude which has been discussed at length, I'm not going to keep going in circles. I can accept that you didn't mean it that way, I hope you can see why myself, and others, took that implication from it.

I honestly didn't mean this to get personal or come across as some sort of personal crusade against taxi drivers, and I apologise if it has come across that way. I hope you can understand I have had some previous with some taxi drivers, and it got my goat up when I read some of the posts in this thread.

Anyway, thats the last I'm going to say on this matter, as I think I've got all the anger out my system....... :grr: :greengrin

Again, I'm sorry if it seemed like I was getting personal.

[J-C]

The cost of running a black compared to a ph is totally different, we are not allowed to offer town discounts as this is an experiment by the council, we have to charge the full fare.
- did change career by becoming a personal trainer but had to give it up due to arthrits in my hips, I had an op last year on one hip, so had to come. Back to cabbying which I must admit I hate, hence why I changed career.

[J-C]

I didn't decide that at all, now you are doing exactly what you have accused me of doing and putting words into my mouth. I would hope that if you look back through my posts you would see that I have said "some taxi drivers" and not "all taxi drivers." If I have missed that out at any point, or given the impression that I feel this applies to all taxi drivers then I apologise, it wasnt my intention. I've had many good experiences with taxi drivers, especially the one who took me from Perth to Inverness at 11pm one night as my train was delayed and I missed the last train up to Inverness. (It must be said that the train company paid the £250 odd fare, not me.....:greengrin)



I'm glad you've not had any accidents in that long a time, you must be doing something right! I hope that I never have another accident, as its not something I would wish to go through again.

I also didn't say I thought you drive like a lunatic, again you are doing exactly what you were accusing me of, and putting words in my mouth! :wink:



I was just throwing that in to be fair, I've had a fair old rip into your job, so its only fair you have the chance to rip into mine. Although to be honest, I usually find when I mention my job, its a sure fire conversation stopper, as no-one seems to know what it is, and when I try to explain it everyone falls asleep!:greengrin




I'm not being flippant here, but your postings did imply a certain attitude which has been discussed at length, I'm not going to keep going in circles. I can accept that you didn't mean it that way, I hope you can see why myself, and others, took that implication from it.

I honestly didn't mean this to get personal or come across as some sort of personal crusade against taxi drivers, and I apologise if it has come across that way. I hope you can understand I have had some previous with some taxi drivers, and it got my goat up when I read some of the posts in this thread.

Anyway, thats the last I'm going to say on this matter, as I think I've got all the anger out my system....... :grr: :greengrin

Again, I'm sorry if it seemed like I was getting personal.

Let's all just take a deep breath, start agin and keep it non personal, we all have views and ocassionally it gets heated, I accept your apologym :)

[Andy74]

10/10

I'd like one of these smarmy gits who spend no more than two hours on the road a day maximum and slope off to their cushty wee salaried job spend a day in my shoes and work for the minimum wage.

Twelve hours trying to be all things to all men and you have to negociate around people who shouldn't be allowed on the road. Grannies in Micras who can't even see and people who are colourblind when it comes to the white markings on the road.

For some it's simply a mode of transport but for others the roads are where we ply our trade and make our living.

You'll never understand until you've tried it.

I've made roughly £150 before tax for about 60 hours work this week. Would any of you pricks who complain work for that?

That's one of the most patrhetic posts I've ever read. If you think my job is cushty come and claim it and stop bleating!

[Woody1985]

That's one of the most patrhetic posts I've ever read. If you think my job is cushty come and claim it and stop bleating!

You RBS employee with your monthly salary and bizillion pound bonus :grr::grr::grr:

Get a real job.

I love the fact that the value of his cab is worth more than a year of my pay and I've got it cushty.

Am I correct in saying that the 'plates' are worth money on top because the number are restricted? I remember someone mentioning 'plates' when talking about taxis being in the region of 40k but I'm not entirely sure what the 'plate' is.

If that's correct and the plate doesn't include the cost of the cab then you've got a few years worth of salary tied up in that!

[Hibs Class]

There's no higher or lower rate at all, the meter is fixed, you pay for the initial hire charge then it goes up after every few hundred yds, the meter is fixed, sealed and tamper proof. Out of town work is set at approx £2.50 per mile, this can be negotiated a little as the job is not metered, unlike all other town jobs which are. What some private hire companies are doing is giving you discount, so if the job is say £10.00, they're taking 25% offmaking it £7.50. Now we could start doing that but why should we start cutting our prices, which the council agreed to in the first place, we as a taxi trade were against this action by the council but little brown envelopes inthe back of pockets count for a lot these days.

Discounts are given to large companies as it gaurantee's work, usually the discount is purely a no call out charge which is 80p.


JC - can you be clear on who is bribing whom? It's a pretty serious allegation, and if the suggestion is that there are councillors who can be bought in this way, and it can be proved, then I'd encourage you to take it to the Police. I've had first hand experience of councillors' dishonesty in recent months, but at a level which falls short of criminal fraud (the standards commissioner has said that councillors have the right to exaggerate and embellish!) However your allegation would most definitely be a crime. I take it you do have evidence to support it?

[Phil D. Rolls]

That's one of the most patrhetic posts I've ever read. If you think my job is cushty come and claim it and stop bleating!


You RBS employee with your monthly salary and bizillion pound bonus :grr::grr::grr:

Get a real job.

I love the fact that the value of his cab is worth more than a year of my pay and I've got it cushty.

Am I correct in saying that the 'plates' are worth money on top because the number are restricted? I remember someone mentioning 'plates' when talking about taxis being in the region of 40k but I'm not entirely sure what the 'plate' is.

If that's correct and the plate doesn't include the cost of the cab then you've got a few years worth of salary tied up in that!

The "plate" is the licence required to operate a Hackney carriage. It is different from the driver's licence - sometimes called a "brief". Not every taxi driver owns their own plate, and even if they do, all it takes is a change of approach by the council for that to come crashing down in value.

I think the thing you missed was that he had worked 60 hours last week and brought home £160 - that's not a living wage in anyone's money. Admittedly there will be better weeks, but I think it goes a long way to demonstrating that taxi driving isn't the gold mine people make out.

The sh*ttiest job I can think of is working in a care home - someone working a 60 hour week there will clear earn over £360. Bear in mind that he posted at the back of two on a Saturday morning, and you can see that you have to work hard in taxis.

Now, what about these Rickshaws?

[Phil D. Rolls]

JC - can you be clear on who is bribing whom? It's a pretty serious allegation, and if the suggestion is that there are councillors who can be bought in this way, and it can be proved, then I'd encourage you to take it to the Police. I've had first hand experience of councillors' dishonesty in recent months, but at a level which falls short of criminal fraud (the standards commissioner has said that councillors have the right to exaggerate and embellish!) However your allegation would most definitely be a crime. I take it you do have evidence to support it?

I don't think he said anybody was offering bribes - he said brown paper envelopes might end up in back pockets. You can take that to mean that money is in them, but they could just as easily be full of petitions or letters.

I think if any of our elected officials were taking bribes from the likes of - say - Allied Vehicles of Glasgow, that would be very serious. I don't think they would overturn a 60 year old ruling on suitable vehicles over night based on money changing hands though.

I am given to understand that councillors uphold the highest standards of honesty. I can only think they honestly believed that putting Peugeot fish vans on the streets after years of insisting that vehicles have a set turning circle is because they had a serious change in their thinking - "overnight".

Either that, or Edinburgh's streets aren't as narrow as they used to be. Certainly not bribery - if I heard of such a thing I'd be straight to the police.

[Woody1985]

The "plate" is the licence required to operate a Hackney carriage. It is different from the driver's licence - sometimes called a "brief". Not every taxi driver owns their own plate, and even if they do, all it takes is a change of approach by the council for that to come crashing down in value.

I think the thing you missed was that he had worked 60 hours last week and brought home £160 - that's not a living wage in anyone's money. Admittedly there will be better weeks, but I think it goes a long way to demonstrating that taxi driving isn't the gold mine people make out.

The sh*ttiest job I can think of is working in a care home - someone working a 60 hour week there will clear earn over £360. Bear in mind that he posted at the back of two on a Saturday morning, and you can see that you have to work hard in taxis.

Now, what about these Rickshaws?

So I'm correct in saying that the 'plate' has a monetry value that runs into tens of thousands of pounds?

When was the last time that changes were made that resulted in a significant drop in value of the plates?

Is this why black cabs oppose additional black cabs being introduced to the roads and therefore reducing the value of their plates?


On the subject of his wage, I don't think I've made out anywhere on here that he makes a massive wedge (or anyone else for that matter) but my memory is hazy as it's gone on for a while this thread.

However, is the £160 one week like that often? Surely it balances it out and some weeks they will make £5/6/700. Will they be coming on to brag that they made ****loads that week? No, they won't.

Posting up one ***** week of pay is completely irrelevant and quite frankly pathetic. If he really wants to complain then he should post up what his earnings have been each year for the last x amount of years, look at the numbers of hour he worked and then break it down to see how comparable it really is.

I'm sure there's plenty of other self employed people on here, tradesmen most likely that might only got one or two days work a week and earn £1/200 but other weeks rake in a grand. Are they bleating about the expense of their tools, their vans, their other overheads etc etc.

[Hibs Class]

I don't think he said anybody was offering bribes - he said brown paper envelopes might end up in back pockets. You can take that to mean that money is in them, but they could just as easily be full of petitions or letters.

I think if any of our elected officials were taking bribes from the likes of - say - Allied Vehicles of Glasgow, that would be very serious. I don't think they would overturn a 60 year old ruling on suitable vehicles over night based on money changing hands though.

I am given to understand that councillors uphold the highest standards of honesty. I can only think they honestly believed that putting Peugeot fish vans on the streets after years of insisting that vehicles have a set turning circle is because they had a serious change in their thinking - "overnight".

Either that, or Edinburgh's streets aren't as narrow as they used to be. Certainly not bribery - if I heard of such a thing I'd be straight to the police.


Maybe I do stand corrected, although in my experience a petition, for example, is quite publicly handed over rather than placed into a brown envelope and then put into a back pocket. Maybe JC can clarify what these brown envelopes contain, whose back pockets they end up in, and who put whatever contents into them in the first place.

[Phil D. Rolls]

So I'm correct in saying that the 'plate' has a monetry value that runs into tens of thousands of pounds?


When was the last time that changes were made that resulted in a significant drop in value of the plates?


Is this why black cabs oppose additional black cabs being introduced to the roads and therefore reducing the value of their plates?


On the subject of his wage, I don't think I've made out anywhere on here that he makes a massive wedge (or anyone else for that matter) but my memory is hazy as it's gone on for a while this thread.

However, is the £160 one week like that often? Surely it balances it out and some weeks they will make £5/6/700. Will they be coming on to brag that they made ****loads that week? No, they won't.

Posting up one ***** week of pay is completely irrelevant and quite frankly pathetic. If he really wants to complain then he should post up what his earnings have been each year for the last x amount of years, look at the numbers of hour he worked and then break it down to see how comparable it really is.

I'm sure there's plenty of other self employed people on here, tradesmen most likely that might only got one or two days work a week and earn £1/200 but other weeks rake in a grand. Are they bleating about the expense of their tools, their vans, their other overheads etc etc.


They go for 5 figure sums (don't know the going rate, it was about £40k a few years ago), thanks to the council's restriction on them. Can't tell you when the last drop happened. As Edinburgh's population has increased, demand has gone up. A similair situation existed in Dublin, when plates were changing hands for £100,000, the council de-regulated overnight, and the owners lost everything.

Buying a plate is a very speculative venture. All it really guarantees you is having the cab on your drive, as opposed to taking it back to the owners'.

There are different schools of thought in the cab driving community about putting more cars on the road. I fall into the camp that thinks anyone who has done the knowledge should get a plate from the council. Owners of plates, naturally, want to protect their investment.

Their argument that putting more cars on the road would choke the market is bogus IMO. There is a limited number of drivers, they can't all drive at once.

As it stands, the price of the plate is passed onto the drivers who hire from the owners (because they have to), meaning that they need to drive more hours to make a wage.

£160 seems an incredibly bad week, but the fact that it has happened illustrates the year on year trend of less people getting into black cabs. There is also increasing competition from Lothian Buses (prop. Edinburgh Council); Lothian taxi buses from the airport (prop. Edinburgh Council), and anybody who wants to put a PHC on the road.

By the way, who regulates the taxi trade - Edinburgh Council of course!! No conflict of interest there then.

I got out of the game, when I realised that I was making less money each year. When I started you were guaranteed a good friday and/or Saturday night, and that would bring in around £500 depending on when you worked. That just wasn't the case at the end.

As I said in another post, I can make more money on basic wage in the NHS, once shift allowances kick in. I get paid holidays, and I get a pension. Cabbies get none of that.

If cab driving becomes any more unattractive, we'll end up with the sort of nonsense that goes on in Europe. Believe me, the bulk of British drivers are honest - maybe because they are so tightly regulated. You pay peanuts and you know what you get.

The black cab drivers have to compete with one hand tied behind their back. The regulation of taxis would make the SFA look like the most consistent organisation in the world.

[Twa Cairpets]

They go for 5 figure sums (don't know the going rate, it was about £40k a few years ago), thanks to the council's restriction on them. Can't tell you when the last drop happened. As Edinburgh's population has increased, demand has gone up. A similair situation existed in Dublin, when plates were changing hands for £100,000, the council de-regulated overnight, and the owners lost everything.

Buying a plate is a very speculative venture. All it really guarantees you is having the cab on your drive, as opposed to taking it back to the owners'.

There are different schools of thought in the cab driving community about putting more cars on the road. I fall into the camp that thinks anyone who has done the knowledge should get a plate from the council. Owners of plates, naturally, want to protect their investment.

Their argument that putting more cars on the road would choke the market is bogus IMO. There is a limited number of drivers, they can't all drive at once.

As it stands, the price of the plate is passed onto the drivers who hire from the owners (because they have to), meaning that they need to drive more hours to make a wage.

£160 seems an incredibly bad week, but the fact that it has happened illustrates the year on year trend of less people getting into black cabs. There is also increasing competition from Lothian Buses (prop. Edinburgh Council); Lothian taxi buses from the airport (prop. Edinburgh Council), and anybody who wants to put a PHC on the road.

By the way, who regulates the taxi trade - Edinburgh Council of course!! No conflict of interest there then.

I got out of the game, when I realised that I was making less money each year. When I started you were guaranteed a good friday and/or Saturday night, and that would bring in around £500 depending on when you worked. That just wasn't the case at the end.

As I said in another post, I can make more money on basic wage in the NHS, once shift allowances kick in. I get paid holidays, and I get a pension. Cabbies get none of that.

If cab driving becomes any more unattractive, we'll end up with the sort of nonsense that goes on in Europe. Believe me, the bulk of British drivers are honest - maybe because they are so tightly regulated. You pay peanuts and you know what you get.

The black cab drivers have to compete with one hand tied behind their back. The regulation of taxis would make the SFA look like the most consistent organisation in the world.

FR, There is something here that doesnt add up. I may be being thick, but am I right in thinking that you need to pay somewhere north of £40,000 for the plate which then entitles you (with variance) to earn less than the minimum wage for a 60 hour week? Taking the figure quoted earlier of £160 net, it would take you five years to recoup your investment (although you would still have a £40k asset). Why would anyone with the slightest grain of business sense do it if these are indeed representative figures? All the cabbies Ive known are pretty shrewd, and wouldnt touch that.

[Phil D. Rolls]

FR, There is something here that doesnt add up. I may be being thick, but am I right in thinking that you need to pay somewhere north of £40,000 for the plate which then entitles you (with variance) to earn less than the minimum wage for a 60 hour week? Taking the figure quoted earlier of £160 net, it would take you five years to recoup your investment (although you would still have a £40k asset). Why would anyone with the slightest grain of business sense do it if these are indeed representative figures? All the cabbies Ive known are pretty shrewd, and wouldnt touch that.

I hope I'm not speaking out of turn here - I haven't been involved for two years now. I think the attraction of the plate is that it will not lose its value - as long as the council see fit.

I am not great at sums, and I think I might confuse the issue if I get involved in recouping investments. Personally, I didn't think it was worth while buying a plate.

I can say that it was getting harder and harder to get fares at the end. If you weren't on the road by 5am, you wouldn't get a spin going. It would die down between 9:30 am and 4 pm - maybe one or two jobs an hour. Then another spin until around 7:30.

That made for at least a 12 hour day (I was lucky, I had a very flexible rental arrangement), and I would stop when I had £130 on the meter. I'd pay £30 rent, and maybe £20 - £30 for fuel. My days wage came in at around £6.50 an hour. Remember that is a gross figure.

I'm sure the guys who are still beating their head against the wall will tell you things aren't much better. Of course, the taxman may be looking, so you can't expect them to give chapter and verse like I have. :wink:

There were the occasional lucky days, and the occasional days when it wasn't so good.

[J-C]

JC - can you be clear on who is bribing whom? It's a pretty serious allegation, and if the suggestion is that there are councillors who can be bought in this way, and it can be proved, then I'd encourage you to take it to the Police. I've had first hand experience of councillors' dishonesty in recent months, but at a level which falls short of criminal fraud (the standards commissioner has said that councillors have the right to exaggerate and embellish!) However your allegation would most definitely be a crime. I take it you do have evidence to support it?


I was being cynical, when things change after certain things have been guaranteed, usually someone has been gotten at, or that's how it seems. So no names or proof and no allegations.

Obviously I was just thinking out loud, so forget about envelopes etc it's me being a cynical old get.

When I started 21 yrs ago there was 850 taxi's and 250 ph's, now approx 1350 taxi's and 1200 ph's hence the reason the trade is harder to work in now, add in the recent downturn due to the recession and £10 per hour is just an average wage nowadays.

Plates can cost you a few thousand pounds, which you really don't make much of a profit if any, it's the taxi owner's pension when he retires, the council also charge £1,000 every time a plate changes hand, nice easy money eh. Add in £32,000 for a new taxi, £6,000 to join a good taxi company and then your looking at £67,000 just to start up, paying a loan back over say 5 years and then a mortgage......not such an easy money making job after all eh! well, not until you've paid off all your loans. :wink::greengrin

[number 27]

Now, what about these Rickshaws?

Sorry I can't do links from here but yesterdays "News" reported a total of 9 incidents in 10 years resulting in 2 injuries. That sounds fairly good I would think :dunno:

Maybe Rickshaws are actually quite safe and some people are exaggerating the dangers they cause.

[Woody1985]

Sorry I can't do links from here but yesterdays "News" reported a total of 9 incidents in 10 years resulting in 2 injuries. That sounds fairly good I would think :dunno:

Maybe Rickshaws are actually quite safe and some people are exaggerating the dangers they cause.

It's probably fair to say that some people don't care about the safety issue and just want the rickshaw operators to pay their way to use the roads and be insured, much in the same way that they want the same for cyclists.

I think that for anyone to be using the roads they should have to sit the theory aspect of the driving test or a slimmed down version for smaller 'vehicles' such as bikes and rickshaws, I know this probably isn't practicle from a governance and implementation aspect but it would be the most sensible thing.

[RyeSloan]

I don't think he said anybody was offering bribes - he said brown paper envelopes might end up in back pockets. You can take that to mean that money is in them, but they could just as easily be full of petitions or letters.

I think if any of our elected officials were taking bribes from the likes of - say - Allied Vehicles of Glasgow, that would be very serious. I don't think they would overturn a 60 year old ruling on suitable vehicles over night based on money changing hands though.

I am given to understand that councillors uphold the highest standards of honesty. I can only think they honestly believed that putting Peugeot fish vans on the streets after years of insisting that vehicles have a set turning circle is because they had a serious change in their thinking - "overnight".

Either that, or Edinburgh's streets aren't as narrow as they used to be. Certainly not bribery - if I heard of such a thing I'd be straight to the police.

Overnight? Nonsense and you know it.

Turning circle requirements had been dropped by a huge number of councils before Edinburgh.

There had been some debate for some time, including lobbying by the taxi industry to get the requirement dropped as the Peugeot's have reduced running costs (i.e you don't have to use Patons!)

There is also documented evidence that that tight turning circle of a taxi actually caused MORE accidents.

This is all evidenced in the minutes of the decision taken by the council.


It is also incredibly ironic that black cab drivers are actually complaining about the Council's approach to taxi's. It is the council that insists on maintaining a monopoly for these cabs to pick up off the street, set falsely infalted rates to maintain cabbie incomes all of which artificially inflate the costs to all end users.

The fact is that if this monopoly was removed then fares would fall. This is already evident in the moves the PH industry is making towards discounting.
Of course this would reduce cabbies income and certain steps would be required to ensure minimum standards but in the end of the day this is what should happen (why should taxi's be a protected industry when something like HGV provision is not...both need 'professional' drivers) as it would drive down the cost to the consumer, which after all is what a taxi service is meant to be all about.

[J-C]

Overnight? Nonsense and you know it.

Turning circle requirements had been dropped by a huge number of councils before Edinburgh.

There had been some debate for some time, including lobbying by the taxi industry to get the requirement dropped as the Peugeot's have reduced running costs (i.e you don't have to use Patons!)

There is also documented evidence that that tight turning circle of a taxi actually caused MORE accidents.

This is all evidenced in the minutes of the decision taken by the council.


It is also incredibly ironic that black cab drivers are actually complaining about the Council's approach to taxi's. It is the council that insists on maintaining a monopoly for these cabs to pick up off the street, set falsely infalted rates to maintain cabbie incomes all of which artificially inflate the costs to all end users.

The fact is that if this monopoly was removed then fares would fall. This is already evident in the moves the PH industry is making towards discounting.
Of course this would reduce cabbies income and certain steps would be required to ensure minimum standards but in the end of the day this is what should happen (why should taxi's be a protected industry when something like HGV provision is not...both need 'professional' drivers) as it would drive down the cost to the consumer, which after all is what a taxi service is meant to be all about.

I take it by your tone you are a Ph driver or have someone in the family who is.

Taxi prices have never been inflated as you put it, infact the council have just refused to increase our prices, due to fuel price increases, these prices are the same as all PH meters. The council in their wisdom have agreed to let a certain PH company give discounts on their prices as an experiment to see how it goes. These discounts cannot be given by black taxi's as regulations don't allow it, so the council are obviously bow towing to this particular company, why????


The council decided to allow other form of taxi on the street, which I had no objection as the Metrcab had been in place for a good few years and the turning circle is irrelevant nowadays. Initially the Peugeot's were a few thou cheaper to buy but since their introduction their prices have sneaked up and now there's little between them, infact the new Mercedes M8 is dearer than a TX4.


The monopoly as you call it of picking up from the streets is because we as black cab drivers have to sit a stringent exam, which can take upto 4-5months learning the streets of Edinburgh. Add to that the cost of a plate ( £30,000 ), a new taxi ( £32,000 ) a few to the council of £1,000 and if you join a reputable radio company another £5-6,000, a good £65,000 outlay just to get started. A PH driver sits zero test, can get a 4-5 year old 4 door car from the sales around £3-4,000, spend around £550 getting it through it's test and on the road charging the same as a taxi....very fair eh.

That's why we pick up on the street, cause we've earned the right to, by passing our brief or knowledge and forking out for a taxi and plate etc.

Edinburgh has some of the best kept taxi's in Britain because we are well regulated, if you've ever been in a taxi in Blackpool you'll know what I mean, or you could just open it to every tom, dick and harry, little regulation, taxi falling into disrepair and unroadworthy and drivers of ill repute and dodgy backgrounds.

This thread was about a man being killed while sitting in the back of a rickshaw, we as taxi drivers have to dodge these things on a regular basis due to the fact they're only out on the roads at the weekends and special occassions, they aren't regulated or insured properly and that was our main gripe but as usual it's turned into a lets all moan at the taxi driver. Which is all very well but remember who picks you up at 2am when you've had too much to drink and ferries you home to your bed at the weekend, if you dislike us so much then stop using us and jump on the nightbus at £3.50 a go, a lot cheaper but you'll have to walk another 15 mins when you get near your house.

---------- Post added at 02:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:06 PM ----------


It's probably fair to say that some people don't care about the safety issue and just want the rickshaw operators to pay their way to use the roads and be insured, much in the same way that they want the same for cyclists.

I think that for anyone to be using the roads they should have to sit the theory aspect of the driving test or a slimmed down version for smaller 'vehicles' such as bikes and rickshaws, I know this probably isn't practicle from a governance and implementation aspect but it would be the most sensible thing.


Well said. :top marks

[RyeSloan]

I take it by your tone you are a Ph driver or have someone in the family who is.

Taxi prices have never been inflated as you put it, infact the council have just refused to increase our prices, due to fuel price increases, these prices are the same as all PH meters. The council in their wisdom have agreed to let a certain PH company give discounts on their prices as an experiment to see how it goes. These discounts cannot be given by black taxi's as regulations don't allow it, so the council are obviously bow towing to this particular company, why????


The council decided to allow other form of taxi on the street, which I had no objection as the Metrcab had been in place for a good few years and the turning circle is irrelevant nowadays. Initially the Peugeot's were a few thou cheaper to buy but since their introduction their prices have sneaked up and now there's little between them, infact the new Mercedes M8 is dearer than a TX4.


The monopoly as you call it of picking up from the streets is because we as black cab drivers have to sit a stringent exam, which can take upto 4-5months learning the streets of Edinburgh. Add to that the cost of a plate ( £30,000 ), a new taxi ( £32,000 ) a few to the council of £1,000 and if you join a reputable radio company another £5-6,000, a good £65,000 outlay just to get started. A PH driver sits zero test, can get a 4-5 year old 4 door car from the sales around £3-4,000, spend around £550 getting it through it's test and on the road charging the same as a taxi....very fair eh.

That's why we pick up on the street, cause we've earned the right to, by passing our brief or knowledge and forking out for a taxi and plate etc.

Edinburgh has some of the best kept taxi's in Britain because we are well regulated, if you've ever been in a taxi in Blackpool you'll know what I mean, or you could just open it to every tom, dick and harry, little regulation, taxi falling into disrepair and unroadworthy and drivers of ill repute and dodgy backgrounds.

This thread was about a man being killed while sitting in the back of a rickshaw, we as taxi drivers have to dodge these things on a regular basis due to the fact they're only out on the roads at the weekends and special occassions, they aren't regulated or insured properly and that was our main gripe but as usual it's turned into a lets all moan at the taxi driver. Which is all very well but remember who picks you up at 2am when you've had too much to drink and ferries you home to your bed at the weekend, if you dislike us so much then stop using us and jump on the nightbus at £3.50 a go, a lot cheaper but you'll have to walk another 15 mins when you get near your house.[COLOR="Silver"]


Nope not a PH driver and none of my family are. I do however know both black cab drivers and PH drivers and used to do work for both so know a wee bit about both sides of the divide!

To be clear I have no gripe with taxis per se and totally appreciate the service they provide so will avoid the night bus and happily take a taxi thank you! I also tend to happily give a tip if I feel they have taken the correct route, not bent my ear off moaning about the trams and have made an effort in keeping their cab clean, this applies to PH and black cabs so I have no hidden agenda here!

You should also note that I said any removal of the black cab monopoly would require regulation to ensure minimum standards, I am not proposing a free for all but what I am proposing is that the false limit on cab numbers and the setting of fares by committe is removed. This would open up the market to free and fair competition which would inevitabably drive down fares. It would also of course remove the false market in plates and dramatically reduce the barriers of entry...again helping to make the service more cost efficient not only to the end user but to those looking to porvide the service.

I have no problems what so ever with cabbies having to take certain exams etc and would openly support the idea that a register should be kept and that anyone who was a cab driver should need to pass to be allowed on the streets. This would remove the most obvious unfairness in the current system while ensuring the knowledge of cab drivers remained at a suitable level.

Thus a open market which removes the cost of a plate, sets down minimum driver and vehicle standards but not fares would allow open competition which should result in much lower start up costs for operators, bigger choice for consumers and lower fares.

As I have already stated this may lead to lower cabbie wages (which for incumbents would obviously not be good) but I am not aware the council's brief should cover protecting certain industries salaries by operating a cartel.

[J-C]

The number of cabs on the road are determined by demand, the usual gripe by most people is you can't get cabs art a certain time of day or night, normally around 12am - 3am fri and sat.

Well guess what, the 20 years I've been driving the problem is still the same and that's even when another 500 or so cabs have been added to the streets, plus PH's quadrupling in numbers from around 350-1300.

Guess what again, taking since then have infact went down.....yep, you heard right, with numerous fare increases every year or so and Edinburgh becoming an even more busier city with tourist, airport and business, takings on a weekly basis is less than it was 15 years ago. This is the reasonwe ain't wanting things deregulated any further, the trade is diluted enough any any more interference wouldn't be welcome.

I understand people want a cheaper form of transport but do you honestly expect taxi driver's to turn around and say " ye, lets cut fares in half, give out as many plates as possible so that the money I spent will be worthless, and make it even harder to earn a living. " Please name other forms of industry where they've cut prices to accomodate punters, do banks drop charges cause we don't like them, do top restraurants like Martin Wishart give discounts to attract punters, do Hibs cut prices to attract punters through the gates.

We offer a service 24 hrs a day at a very professional level dealing with major hotels, businesses, airport and the general public, this has been achieved by given a professional service for decades and building up that reputation.

[RyeSloan]

The number of cabs on the road are determined by demand, the usual gripe by most people is you can't get cabs art a certain time of day or night, normally around 12am - 3am fri and sat.

Well guess what, the 20 years I've been driving the problem is still the same and that's even when another 500 or so cabs have been added to the streets, plus PH's quadrupling in numbers from around 350-1300.

Guess what again, taking since then have infact went down.....yep, you heard right, with numerous fare increases every year or so and Edinburgh becoming an even more busier city with tourist, airport and business, takings on a weekly basis is less than it was 15 years ago. This is the reasonwe ain't wanting things deregulated any further, the trade is diluted enough any any more interference wouldn't be welcome.

I understand people want a cheaper form of transport but do you honestly expect taxi driver's to turn around and say " ye, lets cut fares in half, give out as many plates as possible so that the money I spent will be worthless, and make it even harder to earn a living. " Please name other forms of industry where they've cut prices to accomodate punters, do banks drop charges cause we don't like them, do top restraurants like Martin Wishart give discounts to attract punters, do Hibs cut prices to attract punters through the gates.

We offer a service 24 hrs a day at a very professional level dealing with major hotels, businesses, airport and the general public, this has been achieved by given a professional service for decades and building up that reputation.

No I don't expect you to support an open market as this would undoubtedly mean cabbies wages going down. However you can't also complain about the cost of a plate at the same time when it is that very system that is artificially maintaining the fare/wages level.

However the fact that you don't suypport it does not mean that the cartel should be retained as it by your own admission stops fares/wages going down any further so it is therefore clear that the end user is paying a higher fare than would otherwise be charged if the costs of entry was reduced and proper competition on fare levels introduced.

I take your point about a professional service but do not agree that this can only be maintained in a closed system. Most other industries are not protected like Edinburgh cabbies but can provide a professional service, the airline industry is a perfect example where low fare and premium providers exist in the same industry but give customers choice and value for money. Believe it or not banks and especially restaurants are also very sensitive to price but again the difference here is choice..there is no set cost of a dinner, flight or current account, consumers can shop around and use/pay for what the want/like unlike getting a taxi in Edinburgh where the choice is black cab for on street hire and and the fee set outwith any semblance of market forces.

What this has to do with Rickshaws I don't know (although they it might be argued that the meet some of the unmeetable demand at peak times) but it's been an interesting debate none the less :greengrin

[Woody1985]

No I don't expect you to support an open market as this would undoubtedly mean cabbies wages going down. However you can't also complain about the cost of a plate at the same time when it is that very system that is artificially maintaining the fare/wages level.

However the fact that you don't suypport it does not mean that the cartel should be retained as it by your own admission stops fares/wages going down any further so it is therefore clear that the end user is paying a higher fare than would otherwise be charged if the costs of entry was reduced and proper competition on fare levels introduced.

I take your point about a professional service but do not agree that this can only be maintained in a closed system. Most other industries are not protected like Edinburgh cabbies but can provide a professional service, the airline industry is a perfect example where low fare and premium providers exist in the same industry but give customers choice and value for money. Believe it or not banks and especially restaurants are also very sensitive to price but again the difference here is choice..there is no set cost of a dinner, flight or current account, consumers can shop around and use/pay for what the want/like unlike getting a taxi in Edinburgh where the choice is black cab for on street hire and and the fee set outwith any semblance of market forces.

What this has to do with Rickshaws I don't know (although they it might be argued that the meet some of the unmeetable demand at peak times) but it's been an interesting debate none the less :greengrin

Some cracking points in there Simar.

As for Rickshaws, try getting one of them from town to Gilmerton and then complain about your taxi price!

The last time (I think I've only been on one twice) was when I was going from Cav down to the grassmarket I got on and it was a freezing cold night, I literally lay on the seat and threw the cover on me. When he was going down the hill into the grassmarket from Bread St I thought I was going to freeze!

[Woody1985]

Thought I'd drag this old one up.

It's been in the Sunday papers a couple of times recently but from what I read it is apparently illegal to sell your plate. I believe it was said earlier in this thread that most drivers don't put their name on the license, I assume to allow it to be sold on at black market value.

It looks like there's talk of councils clamping down on this and the value of the plates being reduced to their true value, which I assume is a 40-50k loss.

It looks like your nest egg could be reduced through litigation rather than the expansion of black cab numbers.

You never know, some of the 'crappy' private hire drivers might even be able to get into the trade without having to pay black market values.

This is my understanding based on what I read.

Can some of the BC drivers expand on this and confirm if it is infact illegal to sell your plate?

[Killiehibbie]

Thought I'd drag this old one up.

It's been in the Sunday papers a couple of times recently but from what I read it is apparently illegal to sell your plate. I believe it was said earlier in this thread that most drivers don't put their name on the license, I assume to allow it to be sold on at black market value.

It looks like there's talk of councils clamping down on this and the value of the plates being reduced to their true value, which I assume is a 40-50k loss.

It looks like your nest egg could be reduced through litigation rather than the expansion of black cab numbers.

You never know, some of the 'crappy' private hire drivers might even be able to get into the trade without having to pay black market values.

This is my understanding based on what I read.

Can some of the BC drivers expand on this and confirm if it is infact illegal to sell your plate?
The plate officially remains the property of the council and any money paid for a transfer of plate holder is a seperate unofficial transaction between two drivers. It happens all over the world, the most expensive i've heard of $400,000 for a New York City plate , it would've been challenged and stopped from happening somewhere if it was completely illegal.

[J-C]

Thought I'd drag this old one up.

It's been in the Sunday papers a couple of times recently but from what I read it is apparently illegal to sell your plate. I believe it was said earlier in this thread that most drivers don't put their name on the license, I assume to allow it to be sold on at black market value.

It looks like there's talk of councils clamping down on this and the value of the plates being reduced to their true value, which I assume is a 40-50k loss.

It looks like your nest egg could be reduced through litigation rather than the expansion of black cab numbers.

You never know, some of the 'crappy' private hire drivers might even be able to get into the trade without having to pay black market values.

This is my understanding based on what I read.

Can some of the BC drivers expand on this and confirm if it is infact illegal to sell your plate?

All taxi plates in Edinburgh are officially owned by the council, they allow transfer of this plate between parties and for this they charge them £1,000 a time for the privilage. All plates have to be registered through the council, so named owners have to be put down as it's illegal not to.

It is NOT illegal to sell your plate in Edinburgh, the council are happy with the system at the moment as they get a nice £1,000 for doing a little bit of paper work, I don't know how other council in Scotland work but here in Edinburgh everything is as is.:greengrin

[Pete]

Thought I'd drag this old one up.

It looks like your nest egg could be reduced through litigation rather than the expansion of black cab numbers.

You never know, some of the 'crappy' private hire drivers might even be able to get into the trade without having to pay black market values.


Does it annoy you that these plates are worth £40k? Your use of the term "nest-egg" suggests that it does but you are right in a way.
Some people got these plates for nothing recently and see it as nothing more than a pension or a pay day when they sell it.
Some people got their plates for nothing years ago but have worked damn hard for decades so what's wrong with market forces allowing them to have a final pay day when they haven't ever been paid for holidays or time off.
Some have re-mortgaged their homes to pay the going rate for a plate and they now run their own business...it certainly isn't a "nest-egg" for them.

The idea of de-regulation is a double edged sword and wouldn't simply lead to the forcing down of fares and increase in service. I don't own a plate and if it was de-regulated I could get my own cab and plate and I would beable to start up on my own...but so would everyone else and there simply aren't enough people out there to make it worthwhile. There are some people out there with some ideas and visions of how brilliant it would be (Jim Taylor...you must have heard of him ) but it simply wouldn't work and will eventually end up in poorer service and poorer vehichles. The money earned in the job simply wouldn't be sufficient to earn a living...it would be worse than the worst job you could think of financially.

As for "crappy" private hire drivers....they can easily get into the black trade by passing their black brief so I wouldn't feel too sorry for them. That's how I "served my time". They might not own a plate but they can still make slightly more money on a Saturday night than what they would normally do by paying a rental to an owner.

[Woody1985]

Does it annoy you that these plates are worth £40k? Your use of the term "nest-egg" suggests that it does but you are right in a way.
Some people got these plates for nothing recently and see it as nothing more than a pension or a pay day when they sell it.
Some people got their plates for nothing years ago but have worked damn hard for decades so what's wrong with market forces allowing them to have a final pay day when they haven't ever been paid for holidays or time off.
Some have re-mortgaged their homes to pay the going rate for a plate and they now run their own business...it certainly isn't a "nest-egg" for them.

The idea of de-regulation is a double edged sword and wouldn't simply lead to the forcing down of fares and increase in service. I don't own a plate and if it was de-regulated I could get my own cab and plate and I would beable to start up on my own...but so would everyone else and there simply aren't enough people out there to make it worthwhile. There are some people out there with some ideas and visions of how brilliant it would be (Jim Taylor...you must have heard of him ) but it simply wouldn't work and will eventually end up in poorer service and poorer vehichles. The money earned in the job simply wouldn't be sufficient to earn a living...it would be worse than the worst job you could think of financially.

As for "crappy" private hire drivers....they can easily get into the black trade by passing their black brief so I wouldn't feel too sorry for them. That's how I "served my time". They might not own a plate but they can still make slightly more money on a Saturday night than what they would normally do by paying a rental to an owner.

Why would it bother me that the plates are worth 40k? It seems to be that one of the arguements against deregulation is that the plates value would be lost and it is the existing owners that would suffer. Surely market forces i.e. public demand could determine that they are no longer worth that if the cabs were opened up. I'm sure the cabbies would be delighted to go with market forces then!

Your point about deregulation is a good one but it could simply be that more cabs are allowed onto the streets with the same standards.

People remortgage their homes every day to start their own businesses and are impacted by market forces and regulation changes. They don't get paid for holidays or time off because they're self employed. That's the risk they take.

The company I work for spent 6 months and millions of pounds developing new products based on proposed regulation changes from the government a couple of years back, the government changed the goalposts at the last minute and all that work and money was wasted. The risks apply to any business.

I think that the statement that the job would become so low paid that no one would do it is scaremoungering. It would find it's place in the market because it would find it's natural tipping point.

Is Jim Taylor the guy who writes into all the papers everyday?!

[Phil D. Rolls]

Why would it bother me that the plates are worth 40k? It seems to be that one of the arguements against deregulation is that the plates value would be lost and it is the existing owners that would suffer. Surely market forces i.e. public demand could determine that they are no longer worth that if the cabs were opened up. I'm sure the cabbies would be delighted to go with market forces then!

Your point about deregulation is a good one but it could simply be that more cabs are allowed onto the streets with the same standards.

People remortgage their homes every day to start their own businesses and are impacted by market forces and regulation changes. They don't get paid for holidays or time off because they're self employed. That's the risk they take.

The company I work for spent 6 months and millions of pounds developing new products based on proposed regulation changes from the government a couple of years back, the government changed the goalposts at the last minute and all that work and money was wasted. The risks apply to any business.

I think that the statement that the job would become so low paid that no one would do it is scaremoungering. It would find it's place in the market because it would find it's natural tipping point.

Is Jim Taylor the guy who writes into all the papers everyday?!

It would find its place in the market, OK. What would become of the service though?

JT is indeed the guy who writes to the papers all the time, I think he lives up your way at the Murrays.

[Woody1985]

It would find its place in the market, OK. What would become of the service though?

JT is indeed the guy who writes to the papers all the time, I think he lives up your way at the Murrays.

I think there's two separate issues here, complete deregulation & simply allowing more licenses and I think they are being confused. I assume that when PD refers to deregulation he means the removal of all BC licenses.

Allowing more licenses at the same standards would not lower service levels but it would impact the drivers and their earnings but it could be argued that an increase in licenses would be better for the public.

Again, an increase in licenses at the same standard would find it's natural tipping point because if people weren't making money they wouldn't do it.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think there's two separate issues here, complete deregulation & simply allowing more licenses and I think they are being confused. I assume that when PD refers to deregulation he means the removal of all BC licenses.

Allowing more licenses at the same standards would not lower service levels but it would impact the drivers and their earnings but it could be argued that an increase in licenses would be better for the public.

Again, an increase in licenses at the same standard would find it's natural tipping point because if people weren't making money they wouldn't do it.

There's a simple answer, and it operates in London. Everyone who passes the knowledge is given a plate. Doesn't put any more drivers on the road to chase business, but it does allow everyone who has their brief to decide when they want to work.

This is where the Edinburgh argument falls down. Deregulation tomorrow would not mean any more cars on the road than at present. It would mean less double shifted cars though. Quality control would come through setting high standards for those sitting their topography test.

[Killiehibbie]

I think there's two separate issues here, complete deregulation & simply allowing more licenses and I think they are being confused. I assume that when PD refers to deregulation he means the removal of all BC licenses.

Allowing more licenses at the same standards would not lower service levels but it would impact the drivers and their earnings but it could be argued that an increase in licenses would be better for the public.

Again, an increase in licenses at the same standard would find it's natural tipping point because if people weren't making money they wouldn't do it.Why would it be better for the public to have more licences? You would end up with what you have in this town which is hardly a hire to be had all week but still a couple of hours on a Saturday night with people waiting for taxis. All the decent guys bail out and their places taken by money laundering crooks.

[J-C]

Try getting a cab in Londonat on a normal weekday night, almost impossible because as you stated they are all single shifted by the owners, they go out during the day when it's peak business and finish around 6-7pm, apart from fri and sat.

Everyone thinks that sticking extra cabs on the roads will make everything just fine and make getting a cab at weekends easier. What about the quiet times like weekday nights, middle of the month when nobody goes out, do the extra 1,000 taxi's on the road help there, NO!

I remember going out on a fri/sat night as a lad 30 years ago and even then you couldn't get a cab, these nights are not typical and the whole picture has to be looked at. When I started there was 850 cabs and around 250 ph's on the road, this has increased to 1200 cabs and around 1200 ph's, yet still on a very busy weekend night getting a cab is still hard.

Why is this??
Edinburgh has become one of these cities where stag and hen does are popular, rugby weekends, and dozens more flights coming in from all over Britain and Europe. We didn't have all this influx of people 30 years ago, only during the Festival, now it is a fairly busy city most weekends, so we add hundreds of cabs to supply these weekends but what happens during the rest of the week when it's only Edinburgh people thst need cabs, do we then need hundreds of them sitting on ranks for hours at a time waiting for the odd fare to turn up.

You cannot compare weekends with the whole picture, these 2 nights are unusual and occur in every major city. We are going through a recession at present and cabs like a lot of industries are getting hit, I'm making less money then I did 15 years ago, I'm still working 6 shifts and around 50-60 hours a week, after 21 years I thought I'd be taking it a little easier by now but I aint.

[Woody1985]

Why would it be better for the public to have more licences? You would end up with what you have in this town which is hardly a hire to be had all week but still a couple of hours on a Saturday night with people waiting for taxis. All the decent guys bail out and their places taken by money laundering crooks.

There's the potential for more cabs on the road I'm guessing (just seen JC's point above though).

How would they be replaced by crooks? They'd still have to pass all of the same exams/checks to get a plate.

[Killiehibbie]

There's the potential for more cabs on the road I'm guessing (just seen JC's point above though).

How would they be replaced by crooks? They'd still have to pass all of the same exams/checks to get a plate.Lets have one sitting in everybodys street just in case anybody wants to go to the pub. crooks are always looking for ways to launder money private hire companies are full of them and they are always looking to get into public hire as well. It's happening here, behind the scenes, and they will try to get in everywhere.

[J-C]

There's the potential for more cabs on the road I'm guessing (just seen JC's point above though).

How would they be replaced by crooks? They'd still have to pass all of the same exams/checks to get a plate.


No there isn't the potential for more cabs, that's the point I was making, we have 2x3hr slots in the whole week when there's a load of people all wanting taxi's at the same time, do you then add hundreds of cabs just to satisfy that extremely small part of the week, then to have all those extra cabs doing sod all the rest of the week, diluting the already thin amount of work.