The 2007 "Revolt"

[RIP]

Anyone got any links, genuine facts, inside information?

What I'd like to know is


What was the revolt about?
Was it justified?
Were there just one or two complainers - or was it more than that?
What was Rob Jones role?
What was John Collins like to work for?
To what extent was it exaggerated by the Weegie Meejia to avoid a 2-cup double?
What was Wullie McKay's role if any?
What was Keith Jackson's role if any?

[Stevie Reid]

Anyone got any links, genuine facts, inside information?

What I'd like to know is


What was the revolt about?
Was it justified?
Were there just one or two complainers - or was it more than that?
What was Rob Jones role?
What was John Collins like to work for?
To what extent was it exaggerated by the Weegie Meejia to avoid a 2-cup double?
What was Wullie McKay's role if any?
What was Keith Jackson's role if any?


A quick search found this: -

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/scotland/article1663009.ece (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/scotland/article1663009.ece)

I'm at work but will try to find more over the afternoon.

[Stevie Reid]

A quick search found this: -

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/scotland/article1663009.ece (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/scotland/article1663009.ece)

I'm at work but will try to find more over the afternoon.

There's a bit more here too: -

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/scotland/article1658214.ece (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/scotland/article1658214.ece)

"The remarkable split between Collins and some of his team, just four weeks after they were united in celebrations after winning the CIS Insurance Cup on this very ground to secure Hibernian’s first silverware in 16 years, had been played out on the back pages of newspapers all last week. Collins learnt of the unrest when he returned from two days’ holiday in France to discover 19 players had used his absence to complain to Rod Petrie, the chief executive, about Collins’s training regime and methods."

[RIP]

Thanks Stevie - good to read

Although, as I suspected it doesn't answer any of the questions in my post.

Are we left with conjecture, or do any of our Hibs Net "insiders" know any more?

[--------]

Thanks Stevie - good to read

Although, as I suspected it doesn't answer any of the questions in my post.

Are we left with conjecture, or do any of our Hibs Net "insiders" know any more?


I don't think anyone knows who's likely to spill the beans anytime soon.

Seems to me, though, that that was where our troubles began - or maybe a few months earlier when KT and Brown hooked up with McKay. We haven't been right, or anything like right, since.

[Hibs On Tour]

Anyone got any links, genuine facts, inside information?

What I'd like to know is


What was the revolt about?
Was it justified?
Were there just one or two complainers - or was it more than that?
What was Rob Jones role?
What was John Collins like to work for?
To what extent was it exaggerated by the Weegie Meejia to avoid a 2-cup double?
What was Wullie McKay's role if any?
What was Keith Jackson's role if any?


What I was told, by two people within the club at the time, was this:


What was the revolt about?

JC's training - they reckoned it was taking the players backwards in terms of fitness and as players - they were concerned that it was damaging the team and its chances of success. They said the players wanted the best for the club and obviously for themselves in the way of progressing as players - they felt that it was going downhill fast and that something needed done. They said that the players had raised their concerns with JC during the trip abroad and that he flat refused to discuss the matter with them. They felt this left them with no option but to go above his head with it and speak to RP.

Was it justified?

Dunno. Unless you were actually there who can tell. Anyway, that's like asking two people their opinion on a painting. There are no real right and wrong answers...

Were there just one or two complainers - or was it more than that?

Most of the team is what I heard.

What was Rob Jones role?

They didn't go into any real details about RJ or any other individual...

What was John Collins like to work for?

They said he was aloof and didn't take the time to cultivate relationships with anyone at ER. Think to a certain extent this may have been exaggerated by how TM was [who seemed to take the time to know everyone on first-name terms and made a point of always letting onto them]

To what extent was it exaggerated by the Weegie Meejia to avoid a 2-cup double?

As far as I could tell at the time, very little although they no doubt would have if they needed to...

What was Wullie McKay's role if any?

Zip - as far as I know...

What was Keith Jackson's role if any?

Ditto.

PS - fair bit paranoia seeping in there no, 49? :wink:

PPS - as I say, this is how it was retold to me by two people inside ER at the time - don't shoot the messenger! :greengrin

[Andy74]

The way I'd heard it was after the Hearts game where we lost after winning the cup, some of the players went out and got drunk (and I met a few out and can confirm that bit!) and were also hung over at training the next day.

Collins was understandably upset at this but some of the players turned it back round saying under him they didn't have any opportunity to unwind as he had given them strict instructions on time off and what to do and not to do.

At this point they also dragged up the issue of having gone abroad and again not been allowed any time to enjoy themselves outside training.

I gather Collins was pretty rigid in saying that they could either stick to his rules or they could leave which prompted a lot of unhappinesss as they felt he wasn't being flexible in any way.

So, a group of players decided that if Collins wasn't listening they would complain to Petrie. I think some were more keen that others and many just got caught up in it.

I think some of the players got it wrong, Sproule for example is held up as a hero on here yet he was out drinking hours after an abysmal showing against Hearts and in a poor state to train for a semi final against Dunfermline a few days later.

I can confirm bits and pieces of that but the rest is just what I heard.

[Perspective]

The way I'd heard it was after the Hearts game where we lost after winning the cup, some of the players went out and got drunk (and I met a few out and can confirm that bit!) and were also hung over at training the next day.

Collins was understandably upset at this but some of the players turned it back round saying under him they didn't have any opportunity to unwind as he had given them strict instructions on time off and what to do and not to do.

At this point they also dragged up the issue of having gone abroad and again not been allowed any time to enjoy themselves outside training.

I gather Collins was pretty rigid in saying that they could either stick to his rules or they could leave which prompted a lot of unhappinesss as they felt he wasn't being flexible in any way.

So, a group of players decided that if Collins wasn't listening they would complain to Petrie. I think some were more keen that others and many just got caught up in it.

I think some of the players got it wrong, Sproule for example is held up as a hero on here yet he was out drinking hours after an abysmal showing against Hearts and in a poor state to train for a semi final against Dunfermline a few days later.

I can confirm bits and pieces of that but the rest is just what I heard.

That's a crucial line. People get carried away with the number involved but there was a small group of players at the centre of it and a good few who tagged along to see what was happening.

Another group refused to attend because of their support of Collins.

I tend to come down on Collins' side on the whole issue and he conducted himself with great dignity throughout the whole mess.

Not saying he shouldn't have made slight concessions with his style of management, but the fact is his Hibs team were amongst the fittest and most tactically switched on team I've seen in green. That win at Ibrox was almost perfect football. It's also rubbish to say he didn't cultivate relationships with players - because many have been outspoken in their belief that his man-management skills were excellent. Young players thrived under his tutelage that have gone backwards since, he would train one-on-one with players to bring them on and I still see his reign as an opportunity missed to modernise.

Think Yogi has a lot of the same principles, as it happens. It will be interesting to see how it pans out.

[RoslinInstHibby]

That's a crucial line. People get carried away with the number involved but there was a small group of players at the centre of it and a good few who tagged along to see what was happening.

Another group refused to attend because of their support of Collins.

I tend to come down on Collins' side on the whole issue and he conducted himself with great dignity throughout the whole mess.

Not saying he shouldn't have made slight concessions with his style of management, but the fact is his Hibs team were amongst the fittest and most tactically switched on team I've seen in green. That win at Ibrox was almost perfect football. It's also rubbish to say he didn't cultivate relationships with players - because many have been outspoken in their belief that his man-management skills were excellent. Young players thrived under his tutelage that have gone backwards since, he would train one-on-one with players to bring them on and I still see his reign as an opportunity missed to modernise.

Think Yogi has a lot of the same principles, as it happens. It will be interesting to see how it pans out.

yep, i would agree with all of that:agree:

[Stevie Reid]

That's a crucial line. People get carried away with the number involved but there was a small group of players at the centre of it and a good few who tagged along to see what was happening.

Another group refused to attend because of their support of Collins.

I tend to come down on Collins' side on the whole issue and he conducted himself with great dignity throughout the whole mess.

Not saying he shouldn't have made slight concessions with his style of management, but the fact is his Hibs team were amongst the fittest and most tactically switched on team I've seen in green. That win at Ibrox was almost perfect football. It's also rubbish to say he didn't cultivate relationships with players - because many have been outspoken in their belief that his man-management skills were excellent. Young players thrived under his tutelage that have gone backwards since, he would train one-on-one with players to bring them on and I still see his reign as an opportunity missed to modernise.

Think Yogi has a lot of the same principles, as it happens. It will be interesting to see how it pans out.

I agree with much of what you have said there.

IMO, and I said this on the Rob Jones thread as well, the bottom line is how the **** can a group of players, however small, raise such a grievance a month after winning a trophy and immediately before a SC semi final that we had a great chance of winning? I could almost cry when I think back to how close the already-relegated Dunfermline ran Celtic in that final.

We had an excellent chance of adding 3rd place and at least another cup final appearance that season (which would've been a major achievement in itself) to the CIS win - regardless of what these players believed the long term effects of JC's management may be, there could be no argument that the results around that time were bringing success to the club. The guys that led the revolt proved that they were in it for themselves, not Hibs, and derailed a season of potentially unprecedented success.

[Peevemor]

I agree with much of what you have said there.

IMO, and I said this on the Rob Jones thread as well, the bottom line is how the **** can a group of players, however small, raise such a grievance a month after winning a trophy and immediately before a SC semi final that we had a great chance of winning? I could almost cry when I think back to how close the already-relegated Dunfermline ran Celtic in that final.

We had an excellent chance of adding 3rd place and at least another cup final appearance that season - regardless of what these players believed the long term effects of JC's management may be, there could be no argument that the results around that time were bringing success to the club. The guys that led the revolt proved that they were in it for themselves, not Hibs, and derailed and a season of potentially unprecedented success.

Our league results after the final weren't great.

[Andy74]

I agree with much of what you have said there.

IMO, and I said this on the Rob Jones thread as well, the bottom line is how the **** can a group of players, however small, raise such a grievance a month after winning a trophy and immediately before a SC semi final that we had a great chance of winning? I could almost cry when I think back to how close the already-relegated Dunfermline ran Celtic in that final.

We had an excellent chance of adding 3rd place and at least another cup final appearance that season (which would've been a major achievement in itself) to the CIS win - regardless of what these players believed the long term effects of JC's management may be, there could be no argument that the results around that time were bringing success to the club. The guys that led the revolt proved that they were in it for themselves, not Hibs, and derailed a season of potentially unprecedented success.

That's why I was severely hacked off to see a few of them out that night. It was only a few days before the semi, they had just allowed Hearts to spoil their cup celebration and they honestly couldn't care less. What was on their mind was having some time to get a few drinks and strippers in.

Sadly I don't think many of the players have changed their outlook that much.

[Stevie Reid]

Our league results after the final weren't great.

My main point is that we had just won a trophy, and were in the semi final of another - visible and tangible success from the manager's methods (have we been in a semi final since then, incidentally?)

The league position was still healthy. And judging by Andy's post above, the revolt was rooted in certain players getting in a nick after the Hearts defeat immediately after the final.

[Stevie Reid]

That's why I was severely hacked off to see a few of them out that night. It was only a few days before the semi, they had just allowed Hearts to spoil their cup celebration and they honestly couldn't care less. What was on their mind was having some time to get a few drinks and strippers in.

Sadly I don't think many of the players have changed their outlook that much.

Very true. I wonder how many footballers these days sign a 3 year contract and expect to still be managed by the same person, should they see it out.

[Golden Bear]

That's why I was severely hacked off to see a few of them out that night. It was only a few days before the semi, they had just allowed Hearts to spoil their cup celebration and they honestly couldn't care less. What was on their mind was having some time to get a few drinks and strippers in.

Sadly I don't think many of the players have changed their outlook that much.

:agree:

I've absolutely no evidence to suggest that this is the case but for some reason I get the feeling that all is not well behind the scenes.

[Cropley10]

I seem to recall we went on a shocking run after the CIS - didn't we go 12 without a win? JC kept playing the Cup Final team and we couldn't buy a win IIRC.

Interestingly the only players left from his reign are Lewis, McCann, Hogg, Benji and Zouma. But we still seem to have the same not-really-very-professional attitude.

As for JC he's the last manager I can recall making unforced, tactical substitutions. Seems as if forays into the transfer market and the fall out from the revolt did for him in the end.

I still think it's a shame.

[Stevie Reid]

I seem to recall we went on a shocking run after the CIS - didn't we go 12 without a win? JC kept playing the Cup Final team and we couldn't buy a win IIRC.

Interestingly the only players left from his reign are Lewis, McCann, Hogg, Benji and Zouma. But we still seem to have the same not-really-very-professional attitude.

As for JC he's the last manager I can recall making unforced, tactical substitutions. Seems as if forays into the transfer market and the fall out from the revolt did for him in the end.

I still think it's a shame.

I do think that Collins could be guilty of picking his starting eleven to suit the opposition all the time when it wasn't necessary (sometimes a winning team should be kept together imo) - but he was a forward thinking manager and certainly wasn't afraid to change things.

As you say, his transfer record wasn't great, but the fact that the revolt left an indelible mark on the history of his brief period as manager of Hibs is a real, real shame.

[GreenPJ]

Re an ealier post if the players honestly thought their fitness was going down where do they think it was under Mixu or Yogi. I don't think I have seen a fitter team than under JC. That doesn't make them good necessarily but it means they should be able to compete/fight for the full 90 mins and there was pace and acceleration in the team.

[Stevie Reid]

Re an ealier post if the players honestly thought their fitness was going down where do they think it was under Mixu or Yogi. I don't think I have seen a fitter team than under JC. That doesn't make them good necessarily but it means they should be able to compete/fight for the full 90 mins and there was pace and acceleration in the team.

We made quite a few comebacks from 2 goals down under JC as well.

[BEEJ]

What was the revolt about?

JC's training - they reckoned it was taking the players backwards in terms of fitness and as players - they were concerned that it was damaging the team and its chances of success. They said the players wanted the best for the club and obviously for themselves in the way of progressing as players - they felt that it was going downhill fast and that something needed done. They said that the players had raised their concerns with JC during the trip abroad and that he flat refused to discuss the matter with them. They felt this left them with no option but to go above his head with it and speak to RP.
Speaking to a couple of players that year, their main gripe was that training was predictable and boring, lacking variety. Under Mowbray the training regime had apparently been mixed and varied and therefore more enjoyable.

Their other main complaint was that "Collins expected us to behave like gentlemen, but treated us like kids."

[jacomo]

My take on it is that, after winning the Cup, the players somehow felt they deserved the rest of the season off.

(Incidentally, the same thing happened at Spurs after they won the League Cup under Ramos - they were abysmal for the rest of the season. This is another club with a proud past that has lost its winning mentality.)

Tactically, Collins was a great manager, and he was an excellent coach too, with exacting standards.

Had his signings worked out better then he might still be manager. But O'Brien, Kerr and others were poor, and his pleading to the Board for a bigger budget fell on deaf ears.

[hibsbollah]

I seem to recall we went on a shocking run after the CIS - didn't we go 12 without a win? JC kept playing the Cup Final team and we couldn't buy a win IIRC.

Interestingly the only players left from his reign are Lewis, McCann, Hogg, Benji and Zouma. But we still seem to have the same not-really-very-professional attitude.

As for JC he's the last manager I can recall making unforced, tactical substitutions. Seems as if forays into the transfer market and the fall out from the revolt did for him in the end.

I still think it's a shame.

Absolutely:top marksNeither Mixu nor Yogi seemed(s) to be able to make substitutions creatively. Collins sometimes got it wrong, but at least he tried. I know what Yogi's subs are going to be before he's made them, so the opposing manager probably does too.

[HFC 0-7]

From what I heard going on at the time was Collins wanted to fine certain players for drinking after a game and getting in a state. Petrie, apparently never carried through the fines on the basis that the players werent told about drinking rules and that some players went out, had a drink and were in a perfectly fit state the next day whereas others were well hung over. Petrie couldnt exactly fine the players that had a couple when they were not told they couldnt. Meanwhile JC was trying to change the diet, training methods and mind sets which annoyed many, and when JC went on holiday and Petrie taking their sides around fines they felt safe to go to Petrie and complain.

IMO, JC had it right in terms of how they should conduct themselves and the training methods, he just didnt have the skills to bring it through slowly. I always got the feeling he never had much patience for anything. As for the players, they seemed to feel that they were doing enough and didnt want to change after they won the cup, but JC had different ideas and wanted to kick on.

Obviously this may be inaccurate but a lot of this is from people close to the club and from a mate who works for the papers.

[johnbc70]

I wanted Collins to stay as I think, given the time, he would have brought together a group of professional footballers who had the same ideas and philosophy as himself i.e. work hard, be as fit as I can be and live my life in the way a professional athlete should do. This would have in my opinion started to show dividends on the park and he would have built up a team with winners in it, or at the very least a bunch of players who would give their best week in and week out and live their life dedicated to improving themselves as a footballer.

I felt the whole revolt was a disgrace and the players really let themselves down and should be very ashamed. Another problem we have is that players are professional footballers so very few actually hold any affinity for the club they are playing for and they will behave accordingly i.e. getting drunk up town after a defeat by Hearts and days before an important semi-final.

[Jamesie]

I tend to come down on Collins' side on the whole issue and he conducted himself with great dignity throughout the whole mess.


:top marks


Young players thrived under his tutelage that have gone backwards since, he would train one-on-one with players to bring them on and I still see his reign as an opportunity missed to modernise.


I remember being in Shanghai nightclub, on a Saturday night some time in mid 2007, and speaking to a tee-total Lewis Stevenson who told me he had to be up early on the Sunday morning to go running round Arthurs Seat with JC and, IIRC, Kevin McCann. I wonder if such extra-cirricular activities are undertaken by the current management?

John Collins was the last football manager to be in charge at Easter Road and I have no doubt that in the fullness of time the history of Hibernian FC will record that his departure was a major step back for the club.

[Jamesie]

I felt the whole revolt was a disgrace and the players really let themselves down and should be very ashamed. Another problem we have is that players are professional footballers so very few actually hold any affinity for the club they are playing for and they will behave accordingly i.e. getting drunk up town after a defeat by Hearts and days before an important semi-final.

I think the club doesn't do enough to instil what Hibernian is all about into our players. I would have any new player in for a week of afternoon sessions with somebody like Alan Lugton or Tom Wright to give an introduction to the history of the club and just what Hibs are all about. I very much doubt anything of the kind goes on at Easter Road these days.

[hibsdaft]

seeing as its a few years on and such things are being discussed...

Collins DID show his abs off.

[Jamesie]

seeing as its a few years on and such things are being discussed...

Collins DID show his abs off.

Did he not also challenge the whole first team squad to a 100m metre sprint and beat them all, or is that just legend?

[TheMentalHibees]

A few years down the line, I'd have Collins back. He has the right mentality and IMO, if given an extended period of time, he could bring sustained success to the club. But as has been said above, Yogi has a lot of the same traits as Collins, and he has my full backing.

[hibsdaft]

Did he not also challenge the whole first team squad to a 100m metre sprint and beat them all, or is that just legend?

don't remember that one actually.

btw the abs one is 100%. that happened.

[Craig_in_Prague]

Speaking to a couple of players that year, their main gripe was that training was predictable and boring, lacking variety. Under Mowbray the training regime had apparently been mixed and varied and therefore more enjoyable.

Their other main complaint was that "Collins expected us to behave like gentlemen, but treated us like kids."

That wouldn't surprise me.
JC stated in his interviews, that players must practice, practice, repeat, practice etc, basically saying that all top players do the same thing over and over to become special at what they do.... i.e. Free kick specialists don't just turn up on match day and pop them in.... They work at it.

I guess he wanted this drilled into his own players, but some spit the dummy out and get bored.
I know if I'd been in the position to learn from JC about training and lifestyle, I'd be all ears. (Perhaps no coincidence he got a lot out of the young players, maybe they respected him and trusted him)

[Oscar Lomax]

I think Collins learnt a lot from his time in France and wanted to put some of the methods in place at Hibs.
When Arsen Wegner came over to manage Arsenal, Tony Adams was captain and a recovering alcoholic. He embrased Wegners strict fitness and diet regime and it certainly helped to change his life and it certainly rubbed of on the rest of the players. Obviously Rob Jones didnt have the same attitude and seemingly was unhappy with the methods Collins was trying to implament.
You cant grudge players a drink but personally I dont like to see them up town blootered and yes, I have saw a good few mangled. Its a short career so surely they can abide by a few rules to imrove not only the team but themselves.
It's also a bit like Le Guens time at Ibrox when he tried to get them fitter, eat better and drink less but wee ned Fergie got a wee crew together and went greetin to Murray. Murray took The Crabs side much to my disgust.
I like a peeve but If I was a proffesional footballer, Im sure I would do everything to enhance my career.

[Kaiser1962]

Collins wanted to have the players in all day ultimately at East Mains and make sure that they ate, slept and trained properly. The players felt otherwise.

Looking at the current standard of the professional leagues in Scotland, our record in European competitions and the national side, I think it bears out that there is something seriously amiss in our approach to the game and we had, in Collins, an opportunity to address these issues, albeit an opportunity missed. Collins, for his part, has barely worked since (apart from a short spell in Belgium) and I feel that the revolt and the way he left the club, perceived by many as a petulant act, has worked against him getting another job. Scottish football is years away from embracing Collins philosophy.

[Oscar Lomax]

Collins wanted to have the players in all day ultimately at East Mains and make sure that they ate, slept and trained properly. The players felt otherwise.

Looking at the current standard of the professional leagues in Scotland, our record in European competitions and the national side, I think it bears out that there is something seriously amiss in our approach to the game and we had, in Collins, an opportunity to address these issues, albeit an opportunity missed. Collins, for his part, has barely worked since (apart from a short spell in Belgium) and I feel that the revolt and the way he left the club, perceived by many as a petulant act, has worked against him getting another job. Scottish football is years away from embracing Collins philosophy.

Exactly mate, well put :agree:

[J-C]

Collins wanted to have the players in all day ultimately at East Mains and make sure that they ate, slept and trained properly. The players felt otherwise.

Looking at the current standard of the professional leagues in Scotland, our record in European competitions and the national side, I think it bears out that there is something seriously amiss in our approach to the game and we had, in Collins, an opportunity to address these issues, albeit an opportunity missed. Collins, for his part, has barely worked since (apart from a short spell in Belgium) and I feel that the revolt and the way he left the club, perceived by many as a petulant act, has worked against him getting another job. Scottish football is years away from embracing Collins philosophy.


Don't know if anyone has noticed how well some Scottish players are doing down south, ever since they got away from our drinking culture.
Fletcher( Stephen and Darren )
Dorrans
Adams
Ferguson
McCormack
Burke

[scoopyboy]

I liked JC as a manager and I still like the man now.

His signings were his undoing and were in all honesty hopeless.

Irrespective of who was right or wrong with the scandal his signings were nowhere near as good as Yogi's or even Mixu's.

Mowbray and JC are gods to many on this site but when both left we were in the wrong half of the SPL and on one helluva downwards spiral.

[Peevemor]

I liked JC as a manager and I still like the man now.

His signings were his undoing and were in all honesty hopeless.

Irrespective of who was right or wrong with the scandal his signings were nowhere near as good as Yogi's or even Mixu's.

Mowbray and JC are gods to many on this site but when both left we were in the wrong half of the SPL and on one helluva downwards spiral.

Lies, all lies! :grr:

[Betty Boop]

I liked JC as a manager and I still like the man now.

His signings were his undoing and were in all honesty hopeless.

Irrespective of who was right or wrong with the scandal his signings were nowhere near as good as Yogi's or even Mixu's.

Mowbray and JC are gods to many on this site but when both left we were in the wrong half of the SPL and on one helluva downwards spiral.

When John Collins left, we were fifth in the league.

[scoopyboy]

When John Collins left, we were fifth in the league.

I thought we were in the bottom half but am quite happy to take your word on fifth. We were still on a downwards spiral however and by the time Craig was finished I'm sure we were down to about 8th.

[scoopyboy]

Lies, all lies! :grr:

You're one of my favourite posters Peevemor so I will give you the courtesy of discussing what you thought my lies were.

[scoopyboy]

Did he not also challenge the whole first team squad to a 100m metre sprint and beat them all, or is that just legend?

I saw most of JC's games when he played for Hibs and although he was no slouch he wasn't paticularly fast.

Sproule one season and O'Brien the next would have left him for dead over 100 metres. JC would know this so I doubt that particular challenge ever took place.

[J-C]

I saw most of JC's games when he played for Hibs and although he was no slouch he wasn't paticularly fast.

Sproule one season and O'Brien the next would have left him for dead over 100 metres. JC would know this so I doubt that particular challenge ever took place.

I heard he challenged the fittest guy in the team to a gym workout( jumping jacks etc ) Scotty Brown was the guy who took him up on it and was well and truly beaten by JC, think this is were the infamous 6 pack story came from. :wink:

[Danderhall Hibs]

I heard he challenged the fittest guy in the team to a gym workout( jumping jacks etc ) Scotty Brown was the guy who took him up on it and was well and truly beaten by JC, think this is were the infamous 6 pack story came from. :wink:

I thought the story was a press up competition with Brown.

This all happened shortly after Yogi chucked a glass of red wine over Rod Petrie. :wink:

[Jamesie]

I heard he challenged the fittest guy in the team to a gym workout( jumping jacks etc ) Scotty Brown was the guy who took him up on it and was well and truly beaten by JC, think this is were the infamous 6 pack story came from. :wink:

This is the story I'm getting mixed up with I think.

It says a lot that our so called "athletes" of the time were more interested in getting rid of JC for doing this rather than turning around and saying to themselves "that's the last time he does that to me".

[scoopyboy]

I heard he challenged the fittest guy in the team to a gym workout( jumping jacks etc ) Scotty Brown was the guy who took him up on it and was well and truly beaten by JC, think this is were the infamous 6 pack story came from. :wink:

Yip. I heard that as well and believe it to be correct. I may be wrong but KT might have been involved as well.

[J-C]

This is the story I'm getting mixed up with I think.

It says a lot that our so called "athletes" of the time were more interested in getting rid of JC for doing this rather than turning around and saying to themselves "that's the last time he does that to me".


Thing is with most of these guys, you have to slowly turn them round to your way of thinking........seemingly most of the younger players loved JC's training and lifestyle regime.......young minds are easier to mould eh!

[PC Stamp]

This is the story I'm getting mixed up with I think.

It says a lot that our so called "athletes" of the time were more interested in getting rid of JC for doing this rather than turning around and saying to themselves "that's the last time he does that to me".

:agree: They should have been embarrassed to be roundly whupped by a guy nearly twice their age!

[J-C]

Yip. I heard that as well and believe it to be correct. I may be wrong but KT might have been involved as well.


Possibly, though it doesn't matter who was involved or what the exercise it was, JC was trying to prove a point about fitness and healthy lifestyles and all these guys could do was, go behind his back and moan about working too hard,poor wee things.

[Greenblood70]

Still bitter about the revolt and the manner of Collins leaving.

He made mistakes no doubt but he was hung out to dry by Petrie and the players imo. We had a great oopportunity to kick on after the CIS Cup win as a club and the self interest of a few players put paid to it.

From a wider perspective the Le Guen and Collins analogies are valid as well. It's no wonder Scotland is the poor man of European football when people with the pedigree of those two are hounded out by nonentities for trying to overhaul attitudes and training.

You can say what you like but the paying public aren't daft and can see the players in the SPL currently couldn't in most cases give a flying one about anything other than where their next bottle of Krystal is coming from. It's a contributing factor in why there are so many empty seats in the stands.

I'm absolutely scunnered wi the SPL at the moment. It is utter, utter sh*te week in and week out.

[Peevemor]

You're one of my favourite posters Peevemor so I will give you the courtesy of discussing what you thought my lies were.

Sorry, it was a poor attempt at humour - I agree with you 100%.

In fact I've just had a wee think about it and I can't remember ever being upset at us losing/sacking a manager (from Auld onward). I've sometimes been disappointed in human terms (Sauzee, Mixu, Stanton, etc.) but on each occassion I've thought it was the right thing for the club.

[RIP]

There's no doubt that at Hibs it's player attitude, culture and mentality that's aye been the problem rather than talent. It doesn't help that players outlive the managers. 4 coaches in 4 years. They come..They go..

In that time our culture, our attitude has never been right. Mowbray spotted it right away and tried motivation and psychology. The likes of Caldwell, Riordan and O'Connor left and were replaced by model pros (Hogg, Jones, Murphy) and the non-drinking Moroccans.

Collins realised the problems were still there and tried to continue Mowbray's work. Only by this time he was facing the Jackson/McKay Brown/Thomson combo, mair bevvy merchants in Deano and Ivan and shop stewards S Brown and Mikey Mikey. Discipline on and off the park were in decline.

Mixu was everybody's pal, made some great signings but did nothing to turn things around in the attitude department. He did what Collins would never have done and brought Deek back. Initially Deeks was as much on the front page as the back. Others, like McCormack, Grof and Bamba joined him in the tabloids.

Since Yogi came in he's banged on about attitude, discipline and psychology. Well Yogi, if you can do what three others tried and mostly failed we will applaud you. Maybe Scott Lindsay is supporting you I don't know. Are you building a team around flair players (Riordan, Miller, Stokes) who will continue the Hibs tradition of lightweight, skilful players who are often posted missing when the going gets tough.

Am I the only one who yearns for a team who will combine that talent with 100% commitment, fight and a never-say-die attitude? No manager has been able to permanently instill that into the Hibs Team I've been watching the past 4 years.

Over to you Yogi

[Auckland Hibs]

There's no doubt that at Hibs it's player attitude, culture and mentality that's aye been the problem rather than talent. It doesn't help that players outlive the managers. 4 coaches in 4 years. They come..They go..

In that time our culture, our attitude has never been right. Mowbray spotted it right away and tried motivation and psychology. The likes of Caldwell, Riordan and O'Connor left and were replaced by model pros (Hogg, Jones, Murphy) and the non-drinking Moroccans.

Collins realised the problems were still there and tried to continue Mowbray's work. Only by this time he was facing the Jackson/McKay Brown/Thomson combo, mair bevvy merchants in Deano and Ivan and shop stewards S Brown and Mikey Mikey. Discipline on and off the park were in decline.

Mixu was everybody's pal, made some great signings but did nothing to turn things around in the attitude department. He did what Collins would never have done and brought Deek back. Initially Deeks was as much on the front page as the back. Others, like McCormack, Grof and Bamba joined him in the tabloids.

Since Yogi came in he's banged on about attitude, discipline and psychology. Well Yogi, if you can do what three others tried and mostly failed we will applaud you. Maybe Scott Lindsay is supporting you I don't know. Are you building a team around flair players (Riordan, Miller, Stokes) who will continue the Hibs tradition of lightweight, skilful players who are often posted missing when the going gets tough.

Am I the only one who yearns for a team who will combine that talent with 100% commitment, fight and a never-say-die attitude? No manager has been able to permanently instill that into the Hibs Team I've been watching the past 4 years.

Over to you Yogi

Your not the only one :grr: - Bin the "superstars" and bring in players who give 100% every game!

[scoopyboy]

Your not the only one :grr: - Bin the "superstars" and bring in players who give 100% every game!

I think Yogi is working towards this.

IMO he very quickly identified the ones who don't / wont support his ideas of training / lifestyle and knows he will replace them when the opportunity arises.
It's not always easy to get shot of players but I reckon there will be no Bamba, Benji or Zouma at Hibs next year.

[hibsbollah]

Your not the only one :grr: - Bin the "superstars" and bring in players who give 100% every game!

I get nervous when talk turns to 'getting rid of superstars'. meaning who? Zemmama, Stokes, Miller? ie-the players who I actually pay money to watch?

I'd rather bin the players who arent good enough, regardless of whether they give 100% or not. 100% of 'no very good' is still 'no very good'.

[J-C]

You have to wonder sometimes about players like Miller, Stokes, Riordan etc, all have great talent but somewhere in their psyche they piss it all away. All been given a chance at bigger clubs, ManU, Arsenal and Celtic( hate to admit it but they are ) and the 3 of them back in Scotland plying their trade cause somehwere along the line things didn't work out,Why???

We'll never be able to afford really top quality players but if Yogi can somehow get these type of players, who have had problems and get them to realise what it's all about and start pulling their fingers oot their erses, then we might have a wee chance. Add to that 4-5 decent hard working pro's who are willing to give that wee bit extra and well, lets just say, fingers crossed.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

I can't believe some of the p!sh spouted on here regarding Stokes/Roirdan/Miller with 37 goals this season between them! Without these guys we'd probably be fighting relegation.

[Dr Jimmy]

I get nervous when talk turns to 'getting rid of superstars'. meaning who? Zemmama, Stokes, Miller? ie-the players who I actually pay money to watch?

I'd rather bin the players who arent good enough, regardless of whether they give 100% or not. 100% of 'no very good' is still 'no very good'.

Couldn't agree more. There are too many poor journeymen in our team and they need to be replaced. Yes we need a physical presence, but they can be played around the likes of Stokes, Miller & Zemmama.

[RIP]

Your not the only one :grr: - Bin the "superstars" and bring in players who give 100% every game!


I get nervous when talk turns to 'getting rid of superstars'. meaning who? Zemmama, Stokes, Miller? ie-the players who I actually pay money to watch? I'd rather bin the players who arent good enough, regardless of whether they give 100% or not. 100% of 'no very good' is still 'no very good'.


I can't believe some of the p!sh spouted on here regarding Stokes/Roirdan/Miller with 37 goals this season between them! Without these guys we'd probably be fighting relegation.


Couldn't agree more. There are too many poor journeymen in our team and they need to be replaced. Yes we need a physical presence, but they can be played around the likes of Stokes, Miller & Zemmama.

What Mowbray, Collins, Mixu, Yogi and any other manager worth his salt wants is BOTH talent and commitment. Successful teams combine these qualities more regularly. Hibs less so.

Are you saying it's either ONE or the OTHER? Surely not? A team polarised between hard working journeymen and talented lightweights?

Sorry lads but some of us on here have more ambition. I want a whole team of Ian Murrays. :greengrin

Thankfully Yogi still carries the hope that he can add a winning mentality to the talent that's there

[truehibernian]

don't remember that one actually.

btw the abs one is 100%. that happened.


Half true and written up as if it was arrogance, where it was actually just a tongue in cheek/banter moment after training. Incident happened in changing rooms at Edinburgh Academy pitches, Kinnear Road, and it was youth team players he said it to, not first team.

[matty_f]

I get nervous when talk turns to 'getting rid of superstars'. meaning who? Zemmama, Stokes, Miller? ie-the players who I actually pay money to watch?

I'd rather bin the players who arent good enough, regardless of whether they give 100% or not. 100% of 'no very good' is still 'no very good'.

Same here. Brian Kerr worked hard and gave 100% every match. I do not want a team of Brian Kerrs (and there are current equivalents, IMHO).

I think one of the worst things to come from the revolt is that there are now people who are quick to suggest similar unrest whenever the team hits a bad patch - it was suggested many times with Mixu, and has been hinted at by people with Yogi as well.

I don't think Hibs are any different from any other club in that there will be players who are happy and players who aren't. No big deal. I don't think we'll see a 'revolt' again for some time, though.

[truehibernian]

Spot on Matty.............Cardiff City 's game at the weekend just goes to show that emotions run high on and off the pitch at a club. Doesn't mean the team or the dressing room is in meltdown. Look around all our offices and workplaces, and if anyone can say that they like and get on with absolutely everyone connected with the company/organisation, them be liars :agree:

[Peevemor]

Same here. Brian Kerr worked hard and gave 100% every match. I do not want a team of Brian Kerrs (and there are current equivalents, IMHO).

I think one of the worst things to come from the revolt is that there are now people who are quick to suggest similar unrest whenever the team hits a bad patch - it was suggested many times with Mixu, and has been hinted at by people with Yogi as well.

I don't think Hibs are any different from any other club in that there will be players who are happy and players who aren't. No big deal. I don't think we'll see a 'revolt' again for some time, though.

Exactly.

It's obvious that John Rankin is a "model pro" given that he never gets any stick on here.

[yekimevol]

What was the revolt about?
his training techniques, his attitude and lack of respect for the players. He went back to basics but they where fully focused on fitness and never changed and when approached about this he was unmoveable. He fell out with many players ivan, stewart, shields, shiels, killen, Thompson.

Was it justified?
To be personally yes because I had trust I the players that had done, we had one in the last 7 games. Before the cup final and if I remember we went on a 13 game run with out a win after the final.
Were there just one or two complainers - or was it more than that?
Ive been told every player signed the petition except chris hogg who Collins brought back in to the first team that jones and three others showed rod at his house.

What was Rob Jones role?
Captain speaking on behalf of the players,

What was John Collins like to work for?
Rude, arrogant and not much of a people person

[Perspective]

Half true and written up as if it was arrogance, where it was actually just a tongue in cheek/banter moment after training. Incident happened in changing rooms at Edinburgh Academy pitches, Kinnear Road, and it was youth team players he said it to, not first team.

Exactly. That's what annoyed me about that little anecdote being blown way out of proportion. It's all about context.


What was the revolt about?
his training techniques, his attitude and lack of respect for the players. He went back to basics but they where fully focused on fitness and never changed and when approached about this he was unmoveable. He fell out with many players ivan, stewart, shields, shiels, killen, Thompson.

Was it justified?
To be personally yes because I had trust I the players that had done, we had one in the last 7 games. Before the cup final and if I remember we went on a 13 game run with out a win after the final.
Were there just one or two complainers - or was it more than that?
Ive been told every player signed the petition except chris hogg who Collins brought back in to the first team that jones and three others showed rod at his house.

What was Rob Jones role?
Captain speaking on behalf of the players,

What was John Collins like to work for?
Rude, arrogant and not much of a people person


With the exception of Thomson, I'm not fussed he fell out with any of those players because none of them in my opinion were good enough. And even Thomson proved a disruptive influence latterly.

Also not true to say that every player bar Hogg signed the petition.

The last bit is ridiculous. For every player that didn't enjoy working for him (and it's no coincidence most of them were out of the team or having nosedived in their careers since then) there were those who loved working for him. And if you've ever met the guy, or seen him in dealings with younger supporters especially, you'd know he's not rude, arrogant or lacking in people skills.

A lot of the problems people have with Collins is bourne out of jealousy IMHO.

[basehibby]

I agree with much of what you have said there.

IMO, and I said this on the Rob Jones thread as well, the bottom line is how the **** can a group of players, however small, raise such a grievance a month after winning a trophy and immediately before a SC semi final that we had a great chance of winning? I could almost cry when I think back to how close the already-relegated Dunfermline ran Celtic in that final.

We had an excellent chance of adding 3rd place and at least another cup final appearance that season (which would've been a major achievement in itself) to the CIS win - regardless of what these players believed the long term effects of JC's management may be, there could be no argument that the results around that time were bringing success to the club. The guys that led the revolt proved that they were in it for themselves, not Hibs, and derailed a season of potentially unprecedented success.

:top marks I was furious with the players at the time and still think their behaviour was an utter disgrace to the club and their "profession"

Given where the team was at the time there is NO WAY they should have upset the applecart - if they had genuine grievances then they could've waited til the end of the season.

At the end of the day the ringleaders of this incident cost the club the chance to appear in the Scottish Cup final - something I hope they hang their heads in shame about until the day they die.

[basehibby]

................
A lot of the problems people have with Collins is bourne out of jealousy IMHO.


OR - that he was ultra-professional in his approach to the game and wanted to bring the same to Hibs - and many of our half-baked pish-atrists simply couldn't hack it :dunno:

That's certainly the impression I was left with.

[Perspective]

OR - that he was ultra-professional in his approach to the game and wanted to bring the same to Hibs - and many of our half-baked pish-atrists simply couldn't hack it :dunno:

That's certainly the impression I was left with.

Yip, agreed.

[Danderhall Hibs]

OR - that he was ultra-professional in his approach to the game and wanted to bring the same to Hibs - and many of our half-baked pish-atrists simply couldn't hack it :dunno:

That's certainly the impression I was left with.

I don't even know if he was ultra-professional - the story about McLuskey says a lot about attitudes. We were away to ICT (I think) and McLuskey in the squad but wasn't in the team or on the bench. He was asked to join in the warm-up (in case there was an injury in the warm-up presumably) and refused!

No wonder he's kicking his heels just now.

[Peevemor]

The team weren't playing well even before the so called revolt. The cup final performance was superb, only a fool would say otherwise, but there was also some pretty poor stuff in the run up. Yes we had an unbeaten run, but a lot of that was down to luck.

Some people have scarily short memories.

This season we had a great run prior to Christmas (including a fair dose of luck) but it seems that this is nothing to do with Yogi because he's apparently clueless.

JC had a similar season (albeit with the cup win thrown in) but he's a misunderstood genius?

There are people praising JC for his tactical substitutions. At the time this place was full of people moaning about them.

JC gets praise for his work with youngsters. At the time I thought he was playing some (eg. Lewis) too often - something good managers know not to do despite temptation/circumstances.

I was as saddened as anyone when JC went, but the fact remains that his system simply wasn't working. You can blame the Scottish mentality/attitude all you want, but erm... where do Hibs play?

And don't get me started on his signings. :bitchy:

[poolman]

don't remember that one actually.

btw the abs one is 100%. that happened.


Not according to JC himself it didn't and I would believe him before that tosspot Simon Brown :agree:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/hibernian/6729753.stm

[silverhibee]

I can't believe some of the p!sh spouted on here regarding Stokes/Roirdan/Miller with 37 goals this season between them! Without these guys we'd probably be fighting relegation.

There is no probably about it, wee would be fighting a relagation battle.

[silverhibee]

[QUOTE=49years a Hibee;2419493]What Mowbray, Collins, Mixu, Yogi and any other manager worth his salt wants is BOTH talent and commitment. Successful teams combine these qualities more regularly. Hibs less so.

Are you saying it's either ONE or the OTHER? Surely not? A team polarised between hard working journeymen and talented lightweights?

Sorry lads but some of us on here have more ambition. I want a whole team of Ian Murrays. :greengrin

Thankfully Yogi still carries the hope that he can add a winning mentality to the talent that's there[/QUOT

:greengrin Okay, you're 11 Ian Murrays Vs my 11 Derek Riordans.
What 11 do the fans want to see and pay there money to watch.:greengrin

[Hibs On Tour]

The team weren't playing well even before the so called revolt. The cup final performance was superb, only a fool would say otherwise, but there was also some pretty poor stuff in the run up. Yes we had an unbeaten run, but a lot of that was down to luck.

Some people have scarily short memories.

This season we had a great run prior to Christmas (including a fair dose of luck) but it seems that this is nothing to do with Yogi because he's apparently clueless.

JC had a similar season (albeit with the cup win thrown in) but he's a misunderstood genius?

There are people praising JC for his tactical substitutions. At the time this place was full of people moaning about them.

JC gets praise for his work with youngsters. At the time I thought he was playing some (eg. Lewis) too often - something good managers know not to do despite temptation/circumstances.

I was as saddened as anyone when JC went, but the fact remains that his system simply wasn't working. You can blame the Scottish mentality/attitude all you want, but erm... where do Hibs play?

And don't get me started on his signings. :bitchy:

Excellent summary, sir! Yes, memories are in short supply sometimes on these boards. People forget the seeds of the revolt were sown *before* the cup final - its not something that just appeared out of the blue after it without JC having had any prior knowledge of it...

As I've said before JC was perhaps the right person at the wrong time in his career. He should have learned his trade somewhere else in the lower leagues first before getting a top-level post at Hibs - that would likely have allowed him to learn proper man-management skills and to hone how to get his message across without losing the support of the team along the way. I blame the board more than JC for that in that respect but they wanted a 'crowd-pleaser' to make up for TM walking...

Anyway, with regards the OP - why bring it all up again right now? What possible relevance can all of this have now? We're on a bad run, no more or less. Jumping to reckless conclusions if you think there is a 'revolt' in the air unless you have some evidence of suchlike? :rolleyes:

[Stevie Reid]

Excellent summary, sir! Yes, memories are in short supply sometimes on these boards. People forget the seeds of the revolt were sown *before* the cup final - its not something that just appeared out of the blue after it without JC having had any prior knowledge of it...


I don't have a short memory, and I'm not trying to romanticize JC's managerial career at Hibs. I actually wasn't that upset when he left, especially after he gave seeking unrealistic financial backing from the board as a major factor in the reasons for his departure.

My point has always been that the revolt can never, ever be justified given the circumstances surrounding it, and that the actions of a few short sighted players stopped them potentially becoming Hibs legends for the rest of their lives by achieving the near unthinkable feat of winning 2 trophies in a season.

[RIP]

:greengrin Okay, you're 11 Ian Murrays Vs my 11 Derek Riordans.

What 11 do the fans want to see and pay there money to watch.:greengrin

Murray throws a long ball out to Ian Murray on the left. Riordan, not fancying the tackle, moves to one side and lets Murray past. Murray then passes inside to Murray, neatly avoiding the three Derek Riordan's chatting together in the middle. Murray then sends a searching ball out to Murray on the wing who evades the nearest Riordans ten yards away, all busy complaining to Yogi about tactics. Not closed down, Murray strides forward and whips a fast ball across the goal towards the outstretched right foot of the diving Murray.

The ball sclaffs off Murray's shin and pings away from the body of goalkeeper Riordan. The keeper is currently standing, arms oustretched, complaining about the lack of defensive cover. The ball hits off his left hand, on to the crossbar bounces back off Murray's napper and over the bar.

From the goal kick, keeper Riordan spots Murray the goalie off his line and gracefully sends an eighty yarder over his head for the winning goal :greengrin

[Hibs On Tour]

don't remember that one actually.

btw the abs one is 100%. that happened.


Not according to JC himself it didn't and I would believe him before that tosspot Simon Brown :agree:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/hibernian/6729753.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/hibernian/6729753.stm)

Different SB told me it did...

[Hibs On Tour]

I don't have a short memory, and I'm not trying to romanticize JC's managerial career at Hibs. I actually wasn't that upset when he left, especially after he gave seeking unrealistic financial backing from the board as a major factor in the reasons for his departure.

My point has always been that the revolt can never, ever be justified given the circumstances surrounding it, and that the actions of a few short sighted players stopped them potentially becoming Hibs legends for the rest of their lives by achieving the near unthinkable feat of winning 2 trophies in a season.

The 'revolt' was in full swing before the CIS final which we won. Are you saying we won that game despite it but that we lost the SC game because of it?

Too much being put against that as being the only cause we got beaten IMO. Not saying it would have helped of course but no guarantee anything different would have been the outcome without it. Anything else is just excuses.

[RIP]

Anyway, with regards the OP - why bring it all up again right now? What possible relevance can all of this have now? We're on a bad run, no more or less. Jumping to reckless conclusions if you think there is a 'revolt' in the air unless you have some evidence of suchlike? :rolleyes:

HOT it started with the sneering at Rob Jones on another thread. Then people started to bad mouth the guy based on a speculative understanding of his role.

I was only looking to see if, 3 years on (this month!), we had learned any more about the whole sorry affair. And no - no comparisons with the Hibs of today.

[Hibs On Tour]

HOT it started with the sneering at Rob Jones on another thread. Then people started to bad mouth the guy based on a speculative understanding of his role.

I was only looking to see if, 3 years on (this month!), we had learned any more about the whole sorry affair. And no - no comparisons with the Hibs of today.

Nae bother 49 - hadn't realised that was the genesis of it! :greengrin I think there will always be 100 conflicting versions of it, same as anything else in life! Glad to hear there's no such daftness flying about ref team now too!

GGTTH!

[Stevie Reid]

The 'revolt' was in full swing before the CIS final which we won. Are you saying we won that game despite it but that we lost the SC game because of it?

Too much being put against that as being the only cause we got beaten IMO. Not saying it would have helped of course but no guarantee anything different would have been the outcome without it. Anything else is just excuses.

No - again, I'm saying that the revolt can never, ever be justifed and that it derailed our season.

Of course we'll never know if we'd have won it without the ridiculous scenario being played out and leaked to the press - but it certainly can't have helped our cause. The CIS performance against a Killie team that finished above us in the league, and both SC performances against a soon to be relegated Dunfermline team, were like night and day.

That, allied with our league results after the story came out, is overwhelming evidence that the revolt was (unsurprisingly) a very, very damaging event. And I would hardly class a bunch of senior and influential players going behind their manager's back to complain about him to the chairman as just an 'excuse' for failure.

[Cropley10]

I often wonder about JC's signings.

Did he sell himself to the Board on the basis of having a fabulous network of contacts, with a wee black book of hidden gems ready to sign for the Hibs?

Or was he taken advantage of, did in fact these Clubs realise he was a rookie and sell him duds?

Did he put too much faith in Craig's suggestions (Rankin and Kerr for example)?

Or was it a case of all three coupled with little or no money to spend?

I can never understand why he'd take Jonlieth from Monaco and never play him. Morais was another one. What he saw in him I'll never know, Chelsea on his CV perhaps. Brian Kerr ended up not doing unseen work, he ended up doing no work, other than running around (IMHO)

I'd love to know the truth - I guess it's A LOT harder than it looks finding and signing players.

[silverhibee]

Murray throws a long ball out to Ian Murray on the left. Riordan, not fancying the tackle, moves to one side and lets Murray past. Murray then passes inside to Murray, neatly avoiding the three Derek Riordan's chatting together in the middle. Murray then sends a searching ball out to Murray on the wing who evades the nearest Riordans ten yards away, all busy complaining to Yogi about tactics. Not closed down, Murray strides forward and whips a fast ball across the goal towards the outstretched right foot of the diving Murray.

The ball sclaffs off Murray's shin and pings away from the body of goalkeeper Riordan. The keeper is currently standing, arms oustretched, complaining about the lack of defensive cover. The ball hits off his left hand, on to the crossbar bounces back off Murray's napper and over the bar.

From the goal kick, keeper Riordan spots Murray the goalie off his line and gracefully sends an eighty yarder over his head for the winning goal :greengrin


Brillant. :faf: :thumbsup:

[basehibby]

I don't even know if he was ultra-professional - the story about McLuskey says a lot about attitudes. We were away to ICT (I think) and McLuskey in the squad but wasn't in the team or on the bench. He was asked to join in the warm-up (in case there was an injury in the warm-up presumably) and refused!

No wonder he's kicking his heels just now.

:agree: that certainly stinks of a half-baked unprofessional attitude - on the part of McCluskey of course.

He travelled to ICT as a Hibs employee and then refused to carry out his contracted duties - :grr::grr::bye:

With that sort of overblown prima donna attitude on the part of a FRINGE PLAYER it's no wonder the rest of the idiots were misguided enough to stage their pathetic coup!

[BEEJ]

I often wonder about JC's signings.

Did he sell himself to the Board on the basis of having a fabulous network of contacts, with a wee black book of hidden gems ready to sign for the Hibs?

Or was he taken advantage of, did in fact these Clubs realise he was a rookie and sell him duds?

Did he put too much faith in Craig's suggestions (Rankin and Kerr for example)?

Or was it a case of all three coupled with little or no money to spend?

I can never understand why he'd take Jonlieth from Monaco and never play him. Morais was another one. What he saw in him I'll never know, Chelsea on his CV perhaps. Brian Kerr ended up not doing unseen work, he ended up doing no work, other than running around (IMHO)

I'd love to know the truth - I guess it's A LOT harder than it looks finding and signing players.
I suspect that success in the form of a cup win came to JC too soon in his managerial career.

Following the player rebellion and the inevitable clear-out that followed, I think JC took the view that he could fashion a winning side out of mediocre journeymen, French 2nd Division players and the remaining young players in the Hibs set-up who remained loyal to him. Never found wanting in the self-belief department, JC would have thought himself well capable of moulding and shaping such a squad into a competitive force domestically.

It was only when the wheels started to come off towards the end of 2007 that he would have started to consider a higher calibre (and therefore more expensive) type of player.

And as the money was not forthcoming for this type of player at that stage in the club's history, JC quit.

[matty_f]

I often wonder about JC's signings.

Did he sell himself to the Board on the basis of having a fabulous network of contacts, with a wee black book of hidden gems ready to sign for the Hibs?

Or was he taken advantage of, did in fact these Clubs realise he was a rookie and sell him duds?

Did he put too much faith in Craig's suggestions (Rankin and Kerr for example)?

Or was it a case of all three coupled with little or no money to spend?

I can never understand why he'd take Jonlieth from Monaco and never play him. Morais was another one. What he saw in him I'll never know, Chelsea on his CV perhaps. Brian Kerr ended up not doing unseen work, he ended up doing no work, other than running around (IMHO)

I'd love to know the truth - I guess it's A LOT harder than it looks finding and signing players.

I don't think Collins had the necessary knowledge of players on our budget to be successful with his signings, and ultimately ended up with a lot of players signed after having a couple of weeks (at most) on trial at the club,

I don't know if JC put in the hours that Yogi does going up and down the country to see players to try and uncover a gem here and there - if he did, he was spectacularly poor at it.

I think agents knew that Collins didn't have that network of contacts etc and so threw a lot of players his way without much consideration of the quality. I actually think the same thing happened with Mixu as well - he signed a couple of players that he knew (sure he and not JC signed Rankin, also DVZ, Nish, Riordan, Johansen) but the others were all signed after trials IIRC.

[basehibby]

I've always wondered what the real truth was about this whole afair.

One thing that was apparent from the very start was that it was a disasterous embarassment to the club that even the Yams couldn't have thought up in a hundred years!

Although Collins was probably not entirely blameless in that his seeming lack of man-management skills and the probably unrealistic rate of change he tried to instigate at the club contributed to the crisis, the real blame lies decisively with the players - who's pathetic, lazy and selfish attitude undoubtedly put paid to the aspirations of the people who paid their wages (that's us lot) for yet another year.

Their pathetic stance is symptomatic of the malaise of shoddy attitudes and unprofessionalism that plagues our game to this day.

About 25 years ago I used to do Judo at the Edinburgh Club off London Road. The proprietor - one George Kerr who was recently honoured with a rarely awarded 10th Dan - used to rage on about the shoddy attitude to fitness displayed by most of the so called professional footballers of the day - an attitude which was put to shame by many of the amatuer Judo and Karate players who used his club.

25 years on it doesn't seem like much has changed in Edinburgh/Scottish football at least - with guys like Riordan who should surely be a Scotland regular by now, still seemingly more intent on pissing his career away up the town than working on his physical condition and making the best of his abilities - and only last year our national team's ambitions were derailed when none other than the team captain lead an all night piss up less than two days before a crucial qualifier before acting like a spoilt brat in front of the world's press when rightly reprimanded.

That is the sort of problem that Collins (and LeGuen at the Huns) were trying to tackle head-on. That the players at Hibs (and Rangers) reacted in such a pathetic toys-out-the-pram manner to managers who's only crime was trying to make them catch up with the rest of Europe in their approach to their profession, shows how deeply engrained these problems are in Scotland. I think Hughes holds the same beliefs as these guys but has a more softly-softly approach to changing attitudes - he also fully realises the importance of the raw-talent aspects of football as well as fitness and conditioning - something which seemed to escape Collins going by some of his transfer dealings.

I live in hope that Hughes is given the opportunity to keep up his work at ER and that this will result in fitter more determined footballers WITH the skill to go with it gracing the turf at ER - something like a team of Murray/Riordan hybrids would do the trick - like I say, I live in hope.

[RIP]

I've always wondered what the real truth was about this whole afair.

One thing that was apparent from the very start was that it was a disasterous embarassment to the club that even the Yams couldn't have thought up in a hundred years!

Although Collins was probably not entirely blameless in that his seeming lack of man-management skills and the probably unrealistic rate of change he tried to instigate at the club contributed to the crisis, the real blame lies decisively with the players - who's pathetic, lazy and selfish attitude undoubtedly put paid to the aspirations of the people who paid their wages (that's us lot) for yet another year.

Their pathetic stance is symptomatic of the malaise of shoddy attitudes and unprofessionalism that plagues our game to this day.

About 25 years ago I used to do Judo at the Edinburgh Club off London Road. The proprietor - one George Kerr who was recently honoured with a rarely awarded 10th Dan - used to rage on about the shoddy attitude to fitness displayed by most of the so called professional footballers of the day - an attitude which was put to shame by many of the amatuer Judo and Karate players who used his club.

25 years on it doesn't seem like much has changed in Edinburgh/Scottish football at least - with guys like Riordan who should surely be a Scotland regular by now, still seemingly more intent on pissing his career away up the town than working on his physical condition and making the best of his abilities - and only last year our national team's ambitions were derailed when none other than the team captain lead an all night piss up less than two days before a crucial qualifier before acting like a spoilt brat in front of the world's press when rightly reprimanded.

That is the sort of problem that Collins (and LeGuen at the Huns) were trying to tackle head-on. That the players at Hibs (and Rangers) reacted in such a pathetic toys-out-the-pram manner to managers who's only crime was trying to make them catch up with the rest of Europe in their approach to their profession, shows how deeply engrained these problems are in Scotland. I think Hughes holds the same beliefs as these guys but has a more softly-softly approach to changing attitudes - he also fully realises the importance of the raw-talent aspects of football as well as fitness and conditioning - something which seemed to escape Collins going by some of his transfer dealings.

I live in hope that Hughes is given the opportunity to keep up his work at ER and that this will result in fitter more determined footballers WITH the skill to go with it gracing the turf at ER - something like a team of Murray/Riordan hybrids would do the trick - like I say, I live in hope.

Great post!:blah:

What a pity it bears absolutely no relation to the complaints of the players who went to Rod complaining about JC's amateurish training regimes that were failing to make the most of their professionalism, skill and talents. They thought he was a ham - and worse still a ham that wasn't listening to their feedback.

Anyone who believes Jones, Murphy, Hogg, Whittaker, McNeill, Scott Brown et al were all lazy, selfish and more interested in pissing up than blindly following an inexperienced coaches football training are living in cloud cuckoo land:wink:

[basehibby]

Great post!:blah:

What a pity it bears absolutely no relation to the complaints of the players who went to Rod complaining about JC's amateurish training regimes that were failing to make the most of their professionalism, skill and talents. They thought he was a ham - and worse still a ham that wasn't listening to their feedback.

Anyone who believes Jones, Murphy, Hogg, Whittaker, McNeill, Scott Brown et al were all lazy, selfish and more interested in pissing up than blindly following an inexperienced coaches football training are living in cloud cuckoo land:wink:

OK - I don't know all the background etc - but you've got to admit that

1) Even if they had a valid point, the timing of their protest was poor to say the least.

2) There IS a lacksadaisicle attitude to fitness/conditioning/preparation in the Scottish game - highlighted by the late night piss up of the Scottish squad under Burley and it's something not unheard of around ER either.

Collins tried to confront this head on from what I can gather - his inexperience as a manager was shown in the way he approached it but the unwillingness of some players to buy into it was also part of the problem.

[YetholmHibee]

[QUOTE=49years a Hibee;2419493]What Mowbray, Collins, Mixu, Yogi and any other manager worth his salt wants is BOTH talent and commitment. Successful teams combine these qualities more regularly. Hibs less so.

Are you saying it's either ONE or the OTHER? Surely not? A team polarised between hard working journeymen and talented lightweights?

Sorry lads but some of us on here have more ambition. I want a whole team of Ian Murrays. :greengrin

Thankfully Yogi still carries the hope that he can add a winning mentality to the talent that's there[/QUOT

:greengrin Okay, you're 11 Ian Murrays Vs my 11 Derek Riordans.
What 11 do the fans want to see and pay there money to watch.:greengrin


Looking forward to Riordan (the snail) to take on the defender & beat him for pace! :faf:

If it's Murray . . . then Murray will tackle him good :wink:

No contest :agree:

Why is Riordan (who at his age should be at his peak) not willing to take on any apposition players ???

[KWJ]

Murray throws a long ball out to Ian Murray on the left. Riordan, not fancying the tackle, moves to one side and lets Murray past. Murray then passes inside to Murray, neatly avoiding the three Derek Riordan's chatting together in the middle. Murray then sends a searching ball out to Murray on the wing who evades the nearest Riordans ten yards away, all busy complaining to Yogi about tactics. Not closed down, Murray strides forward and whips a fast ball across the goal towards the outstretched right foot of the diving Murray.

The ball sclaffs off Murray's shin and pings away from the body of goalkeeper Riordan. The keeper is currently standing, arms oustretched, complaining about the lack of defensive cover. The ball hits off his left hand, on to the crossbar bounces back off Murray's napper and over the bar.

From the goal kick, keeper Riordan spots Murray the goalie off his line and gracefully sends an eighty yarder over his head for the winning goal :greengrin
:top marks Brilliant!

[Stevie Reid]

Great post!:blah:

What a pity it bears absolutely no relation to the complaints of the players who went to Rod complaining about JC's amateurish training regimes that were failing to make the most of their professionalism, skill and talents. They thought he was a ham - and worse still a ham that wasn't listening to their feedback.

Anyone who believes Jones, Murphy, Hogg, Whittaker, McNeill, Scott Brown et al were all lazy, selfish and more interested in pissing up than blindly following an inexperienced coaches football training are living in cloud cuckoo land:wink:

Your desire to stand up for Rob Jones aside, I thought you started this thread because you didn't know what the revolt was about - is that not the case?

[RIP]

Your desire to stand up for Rob Jones aside, I thought you started this thread because you didn't know what the revolt was about - is that not the case?

Got it in one - you obviously spotted the wink smiley :thumbsup:

I could have started the thread with "nobody knows **** all" but then someone in the know would have come on and blown that out the water.

Don't you just love it when people prattle on about the revolt based on a mixture fourth hand gossip, biased journalism, rumour and conjecture..............yet attempting to present the information as fact?

Only the players who trained and played for John and Tommy at that time can actually say what the complaints were, how major or minor they were, who did or didn't "lead", who shopped the story to the press or any other facts.

And they are no telling!

[Stevie Reid]

Got it in one - you obviously spotted the wink smiley :thumbsup:

I could have started the thread with "nobody knows **** all" but then someone in the know would have come on and blown that out the water.

Don't you just love it when people prattle on about the revolt based on a mixture fourth hand gossip, biased journalism, rumour and conjecture..............yet attempting to present the information as fact?

Only the players who trained and played for John and Tommy at that time can actually say what the complaints were, how major or minor they were, who did or didn't "lead", who shopped the story to the press or any other facts.

And they are no telling!

Fair enough.

My point/opinion all along - and I've made it clear in my previous posts that I have neither a great love of JC nor an agenda against Rob Jones or any of the players reportedly involved - is that no reason given by those involved will EVER justify their actions. The only exception would be if JC was guilty of gross misconduct, but he surely would've been sacked if that was the case.

The players were obviously a huge part of the success that we achieved also, but for a manager whose team has just delivered a trophy, got a very appealling draw in the semi final of the SC, and were on course for a high league finish to be undermined by many of his senior players and, to an extent, the chairman who appointed him only a matter of months earlier, is scandalous imo.

This will forever stick in my throat - barely a year after the horrendous events of THAT semi final and Hearts winning the SC and finishing 2nd, we had a chance to blow that completely out of the water, and the events that took place after the final derailed our season completely. We will never know for sure if things had worked out better if this situation hadn't come to a head - but surely no can possibly argue that any good came out if it and was therefore justified.

I appreciate that the issues may well have been causing problems before the final, and I also accept that these players had serious issues with Collins, but I still find it nearly impossible to accept that these players acted in anyone's interest other than their own - it certainly can't have been in the greater interests of the club, as we had just won one of the relatively few trophies in the club's history, and had the potential for more.

However, if the players REALLY felt that strongly, surely waiting a matter of weeks until the end of the season wouldn't have been that much of a hardship. I will never know how bad JC was, but I refuse to believe that he was SO bad, that the players found it intolerable - especially since we're basically talking about a couple of hours a day from Mon-Fri. As results on the park were generally good, we had just won a trophy and were strong favourites for a SC final appearance, the players would've been receiving massive adulation from the fans at the time - so how bad can it possibly have been, really?

I appreciate that it's just the words of one man, but Simon Brown's bollocks that he came out with in the paper about 'prison conditions' and complaining about not being able to have a bevvy a matter of days before a major final only seems to back up the opinion that the players involved were slackers and not professional enough for their manger - a man who, regardless of opinion on his managerial ability, is one the best players Scotland has ever produced and played under some great managers. And, ultimately, achieved what all players under him should be striving for.

I am prepared to accept that there may have been much more to this whole sorry epsiode than meets the eye - but I will never, ever accept that the players were at all justified in their actions, that's the bottom line for me - and I truly struggle to understand how any Hibs supporter could seriously argue otherwise, based on what we know.

[Andy74]

Got it in one - you obviously spotted the wink smiley :thumbsup:

I could have started the thread with "nobody knows **** all" but then someone in the know would have come on and blown that out the water.

Don't you just love it when people prattle on about the revolt based on a mixture fourth hand gossip, biased journalism, rumour and conjecture..............yet attempting to present the information as fact?

Only the players who trained and played for John and Tommy at that time can actually say what the complaints were, how major or minor they were, who did or didn't "lead", who shopped the story to the press or any other facts.

And they are no telling!

Very strange. You started a thread asking people for what they knew and then you are slating people for telling you the bits and pieces that they know?

No need to reply to any of your posts any more then!

[oldbutdim]

Very strange. You started a thread asking people for what they knew and then you are slating people for telling you the bits and pieces that they know?

No need to reply to any of your posts any more then!

Ah!

Thank goodness it's not just me that doesn't "get it"........:confused:

[RIP]

Very strange. You started a thread asking people for what they knew and then you are slating people for telling you the bits and pieces that they know?

That's a bit naughty Andy - the very opposite is true.

The whole point of the thread was to compare any genuine or reliable evidence our fellow fans could provide with the plethora of previous biased attempts to present poor quality conjecture as facts

I hoped we could set the record straight - or if not straight then arrive at a more accurate picture of events

[RIP]

Fair enough.

My point/opinion all along - and I've made it clear in my previous posts that I have neither a great love of JC nor an agenda against Rob Jones or any of the players reportedly involved - is that no reason given by those involved will EVER justify their actions.

Do we know whether Rob was involved?
Do we know who was involved?



The players were obviously a huge part of the success that we achieved also, but for a manager whose team has just delivered a trophy, got a very appealling draw in the semi final of the SC, and were on course for a high league finish to be undermined by many of his senior players and, to an extent, the chairman who appointed him only a matter of months earlier, is scandalous imo.

Do we know he was undermined?
Do we know if Rod undermined him?
Do we know whether the team thought they won the final BECAUSE of JC, or in spite of him?



This will forever stick in my throat - barely a year after the horrendous events of THAT semi final and Hearts winning the SC and finishing 2nd, we had a chance to blow that completely out of the water, and the events that took place after the final derailed our season completely. We will never know for sure if things had worked out better if this situation hadn't come to a head - but surely no can possibly argue that any good came out if it and was therefore justified.

Eh? WTF has the Yams got to do with anything? WHAF about the Yams - they are shight!
Do we know if the complaints led to the derailment? Do we?



I appreciate that the issues may well have been causing problems before the final, and I also accept that these players had serious issues with Collins, but I still find it nearly impossible to accept that these players acted in anyone's interest other than their own it certainly can't have been in the greater interests of the club , as we had just won one of the relatively few trophies in the club's history, and had the potential for more.

Why is is too hard to believe that the players acted in the interests of the team?
Maybe they felt JC's methods were holding them back from success?



However, if the players REALLY felt that strongly, surely waiting a matter of weeks until the end of the season wouldn't have been that much of a hardship. I will never know how bad JC was, but I refuse to believe that he was SO bad, that the players found it intolerable - especially since we're basically talking about a couple of hours a day from Mon-Fri. As results on the park were generally good, we had just won a trophy and were strong favourites for a SC final appearance, the players would've been receiving massive adulation from the fans at the time - so how bad can it possibly have been, really?

Maybe most of the players didn't feel strongly?
Maybe it was just one or two with the rest tagging along?



I appreciate that it's just the words of one man, but Simon Brown's bollocks that he came out with in the paper about 'prison conditions' and complaining about not being able to have a bevvy a matter of days before a major final only seems to back up the opinion that the players involved were slackers and not professional enough for their manger - a man who, regardless of opinion on his managerial ability, is one the best players Scotland has ever produced and played under some great managers. And, ultimately, achieved what all players under him should be striving for.

One or two guys with a personal axe to grind?
What about all the non-drinkers and model pros at the club - weren't they in the majority?
Funny how players like Deano, Mikey and Simon didn't feature in the team, yet were reported in the press as the main vocal complainers? - Coincidence? I think not!



I am prepared to accept that there may have been much more to this whole sorry epsiode than meets the eye - but I will never, ever accept that the players were at all justified in their actions, that's the bottom line for me - and I truly struggle to understand how any Hibs supporter could seriously argue otherwise, based on what we know.

Exactly Stevie - we don't know enough - do we?

As evidence, it would be laughed out of court!

[Stevie Reid]

Do we know whether Rob was involved?
Do we know who was involved?


Do we know he was undermined?
Do we know if Rod undermined him?
Do we know whether the team thought they won the final BECAUSE of JC, or in spite of him?


Eh? WTF has the Yams got to do with anything? WHAF about the Yams - they are shight!
Do we know if the complaints led to the derailment? Do we?


Why is is too hard to believe that the players acted in the interests of the team?
Maybe they felt JC's methods were holding them back from success?


Maybe most of the players didn't feel strongly?
Maybe it was just one or two with the rest tagging along?


One or two guys with a personal axe to grind?
What about all the non-drinkers and model pros at the club - weren't they in the majority?
Funny how players like Deano, Mikey and Simon didn't feature in the team, yet were reported in the press as the main vocal complainers? - Coincidence? I think not!

Exactly Stevie - we don't know enough - do we?

As evidence, it would be laughed out of court!

Ok, you could change my last sentence to 'I am prepared to accept that there may have been much more to this whole sorry epsiode than meets the eye - but I will never, ever accept that the players were at all justified in their actions, that's the bottom line for me - and I truly struggle to understand how any Hibs supporter could seriously argue otherwise, based on what we know or don't know.'

I've said all I have to say on this - I appreciate questions will always remain, but my stance is perfectly clear, and will not be shifted, barring some completely earth shattering revelation.

[RIP]

OK - I don't know all the background etc - but you've got to admit that

2) There IS a lackadaisicle attitude to fitness/conditioning/preparation in the Scottish game - highlighted by the late night piss up of the Scottish squad under Burley and it's something not unheard of around ER either.

Collins tried to confront this head on from what I can gather - his inexperience as a manager was shown in the way he approached it but the unwillingness of some players to buy into it was also part of the problem.

Yup agree. Mowbray had tackled it and Yogi's still trying. Unfortunately, for all 3, coaches are not the figures of influence they once were. I think they players think THEY are more important. Managers come and go too frequently to have the time and authority to permanently change employee (player) culture. Think Le Guen

To me that has to come from the very top of the business, from the folk who pay the wages

[davemcbain]

Do we know whether Rob was involved?
Do we know who was involved?
Do we know he was undermined?
Do we know if Rod undermined him?
Do we know whether the team thought they won the final BECAUSE of JC, or in spite of him?
Eh? WTF has the Yams got to do with anything? WHAF about the Yams - they are shight!
Do we know if the complaints led to the derailment? Do we?
Why is is too hard to believe that the players acted in the interests of the team?
Maybe they felt JC's methods were holding them back from success?
Maybe most of the players didn't feel strongly?
Maybe it was just one or two with the rest tagging along?
One or two guys with a personal axe to grind?
What about all the non-drinkers and model pros at the club - weren't they in the majority?
Funny how players like Deano, Mikey and Simon didn't feature in the team, yet were reported in the press as the main vocal complainers? - Coincidence? I think not!



Hello,

This is Deek (posting under another name obviously to keep my anonymity), I was there, I know all the answers to the above, but as everyone on here knows, I'm lazy, so I just don't have the impetus to write them all down. :wink:
Well, that bit of typing is my exercise for the week, so I'll be off then.

[blackpoolhibs]

Hello,

This is Deek (posting under another name obviously to keep my anonymity), I was there, I know all the answers to the above, but as everyone on here knows, I'm lazy, so I just don't have the impetus to write them all down. :wink:
Well, that bit of typing is my exercise for the week, so I'll be off then.

Who was at celtic then?:faf:

[oldbutdim]

Who was at celtic then?:faf:

Dunno.

[davemcbain]

Who was at celtic then?:faf:

That'll teach me to check my facts before extracting the urine.:blushie:

[blackpoolhibs]

That'll teach me to check my facts before extracting the urine.:blushie:

:greengrin

[TheMentalHibees]

Exactly. That's what annoyed me about that little anecdote being blown way out of proportion. It's all about context.



With the exception of Thomson, I'm not fussed he fell out with any of those players because none of them in my opinion were good enough. And even Thomson proved a disruptive influence latterly.

Also not true to say that every player bar Hogg signed the petition.

The last bit is ridiculous. For every player that didn't enjoy working for him (and it's no coincidence most of them were out of the team or having nosedived in their careers since then) there were those who loved working for him. And if you've ever met the guy, or seen him in dealings with younger supporters especially, you'd know he's not rude, arrogant or lacking in people skills.

A lot of the problems people have with Collins is bourne out of jealousy IMHO.

Agreed. I saw Collins at the calendar signing one year, and he had the biggest smile on his face. He greeted everybody, asked how they were doing, and thanked them for coming. A true gent IMO.

[truehibernian]

Who was at celtic then?:faf:

Was he not at FC Jongleurs at that time, on loan from Opal Lounge Rangers :greengrin

[Andy74]

Dunno.

:greengrin

[Hibby Bairn]

IIRC one of the main complaints was that training was 'repetitive' and 'boring'. JC having to spend undue time getting them to master the basics in other words.

Something van Gaal does at Bayern Munich until it is done perfect.


Personally I would have JC back any time he wants it.

[Bob Kelso]

I watched Bayern training on day when they were at the winter training camp. I thought it would be intresting and insightful however they started a game and it was stopped every couple of seconds by the manager who seemed to be explaining where people should be and what was the best pass. I was bored to tears after about 20 mins. This would appear to be the way top coaches operate. I can see why players would get cheesed off but if that´s your job and you want to be successful that´s the name of the game. A professional attitude that was sadly lacking at the time.

[Hibby Bairn]

I watched Bayern training on day when they were at the winter training camp. I thought it would be intresting and insightful however they started a game and it was stopped every couple of seconds by the manager who seemed to be explaining where people should be and what was the best pass. I was bored to tears after about 20 mins. This would appear to be the way top coaches operate. I can see why players would get cheesed off but if that´s your job and you want to be successful that´s the name of the game. A professional attitude that was sadly lacking at the time.

It would be boring. But I guess that is what training is. Train and train and train until you get it perfect. I wonder how many times they practiced that corner last night.

But for Scottish lads they seem to think it has more to do with standing in a line and waiting to hit shot every 40 seconds or so, having a game of pool, maybe a run round some cones, a few games of "colly bucky" british bulldogs, a quick trip down to the bookies and a few beers up in George Street.

You just need to watch Hibs subs "warming up" at half time. Pathetic. Imagine an army carrying out their training the way SPL clubs seem to operate with their salaried soldiers.

And we wonder why we a very few clubs are left in Europe come September. :rolleyes:

[Andy74]

I watched Bayern training on day when they were at the winter training camp. I thought it would be intresting and insightful however they started a game and it was stopped every couple of seconds by the manager who seemed to be explaining where people should be and what was the best pass. I was bored to tears after about 20 mins. This would appear to be the way top coaches operate. I can see why players would get cheesed off but if that´s your job and you want to be successful that´s the name of the game. A professional attitude that was sadly lacking at the time.

The last time I watched Bayern train I got caught sqaure in the baws by a shot from Klaus Aughentaler. I still have to check they are there every so often. That boy could fair skelp them.

[basehibby]

Do we know whether Rob was involved? - Yes - he was at the meeting with RP which counts as involvement. Maybe just in his role as captain but still involved.
Do we know who was involved? - I think it's common knowledge that most of the first team squad (notable exceptions included Benji, Zemama and Stevenson IIRC) were at the meeting - OK many were there just to see what happened but they were still involved on the periphery of the incident.
Do we know he was undermined? I don't think that there's the slightest doubt that JC was undermined.
Do we know if Rod undermined him? Arguably Rod's allowing the meeting to take place had that effect whether intentional or not.
Do we know whether the team thought they won the final BECAUSE of JC, or in spite of him? No - I think realistically though that each player would have their own opinion.
Eh? WTF has the Yams got to do with anything? WHAF about the Yams - they are shight! OK the Yams are sheight - but they're also our local rivals who the team had the chance to eclipse in the SC that season - a chance which they blew spectacularly.
Do we know if the complaints led to the derailment? Do we? We can't know anything like that 100% but we can make some pretty shrewd deductions - the vast majority of which would be in the affirmative.
Why is is too hard to believe that the players acted in the interests of the team? Do you need it spelled out to you? Were you in a coma at the time??? We were in the semis of the SC FFS and the last thing we needed was a dressing room revolt. If the players acted in the best interests of the club then the moon is made of cheese and Nade will win weight watcher of the year!
Maybe they felt JC's methods were holding them back from success? Who knows??? The events against Killie at Hamden and their presence in the SC semis at the time seemed to indicate otherwise. Either way, their timing stunk and all but destroyed our chances of SC success that season.
Maybe most of the players didn't feel strongly? That's what I was lead to believe - but whichever ****** leaked the story to the press ensured that this was of little consequence.
Maybe it was just one or two with the rest tagging along? See above
One or two guys with a personal axe to grind? Probably
What about all the non-drinkers and model pros at the club - weren't they in the majority? Don't know - certainly it would seem that the ******ing idiots at the club were in the majority though.
Funny how players like Deano, Mikey and Simon didn't feature in the team, yet were reported in the press as the main vocal complainers? - Coincidence? I think not! Agreed



Exactly Stevie - we don't know enough - do we?

As evidence, it would be laughed out of court! we don't know a lot because all of the players (apart from the talent free zone that is Sumo Brown) have kept schtum - and no wonder! I would imagine that anyone involved would recall the whole incident with cringing embarassment - having voluntarilly blown the chance of achieving something very special in their careers which most will never get the chance to come close to again :dunno:



.

[RIP]

Nah

We blew the semi against Dunfy for the same reason we blew the game against Ross County and for the same reason we blew the Livi CIS final

Certainly not because a few players had a pop at JC

[basehibby]

Nah

We blew the semi against Dunfy for the same reason we blew the game against Ross County and for the same reason we blew the Livi CIS final

Certainly not because a few players had a pop at JC

Focus, team spirit and cohesion mean nothing on a football pitch then? You're having a laugh surely!
Your use of the word "certainly" is most certainly wide of the mark. No-one can say that the crisis at ER (and that's what it was so don't try writing it off as "a few players having a pop") leading up to the SC semi had no effect whatsoever on the team's performance.
In fact I think most would agree that it was EXTREMELY LIKELY to have a negative effect on the Hibs performance.
Regardless of your attempts to dismiss the ramifications of said furore I think surely you must agree that the players did themselves no favours whatsoever by their actions as far as this game was concerned.

[sahib]

Focus, team spirit and cohesion mean nothing on a football pitch then? You're having a laugh surely!
Your use of the word "certainly" is most certainly wide of the mark. No-one can say that the crisis at ER (and that's what it was so don't try writing it off as "a few players having a pop") leading up to the SC semi had no effect whatsoever on the team's performance.
In fact I think most would agree that it was EXTREMELY LIKELY to have a negative effect on the Hibs performance.
Regardless of your attempts to dismiss the ramifications of said furore I think surely you must agree that the players did themselves no favours whatsoever by their actions as far as this game was concerned.

They do count that is why it is the responsibility of the manager to foster them. Collins spectacularly failed to do so. Maybe he would have been a wiser man and a better manager if given more time.