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southfieldshibby
05-04-2010, 07:58 PM
After the split which looks very much like it will be the current top six, which team will we have to play away three times?

as its stands we have played Rangers, Motherwell & Hearts away twice, but we will only have two home games after the split.

if it was up to me i'd rather play rangers away as long as its near the end of the fixtures as they will have undoubtebly won the league by then and playing motherwell or the yams away gives them too much of an advantage.

thoughts?

Reaper
05-04-2010, 08:08 PM
After the split which looks very much like it will be the current top six, which team will we have to play away three times?

as its stands we have played Rangers, Motherwell & Hearts away twice, but we will only have two home games after the split.

if it was up to me i'd rather play rangers away as long as its near the end of the fixtures as they will have undoubtebly won the league by then and playing motherwell or the yams away gives them too much of an advantage.

thoughts?

How do you know that?

I think it will be the Yams

southfieldshibby
05-04-2010, 08:15 PM
How do you know that?

I think it will be the Yams

By the split we would have played 17 at home and only 16 away. The SPL won't let a team play 20 games at home and only 18 away in a season.

PC Stamp
05-04-2010, 08:16 PM
Rangers had to play us three times at ER last season IIRC. Fancy we'll get a 3rd trip to Ibrox as a result. Can't see ANY way they'd allow Hearts to have 3 home derbies.

Lmc2105
05-04-2010, 08:25 PM
Rangers had to play us three times at ER last season IIRC. Fancy we'll get a 3rd trip to Ibrox as a result. Can't see ANY way they'd allow Hearts to have 3 home derbies.


Exactly or there would probably be a riot :greengrin:wink:

bubblesmorrison
05-04-2010, 08:28 PM
dose it not depend on what the other teams have played like if rangers have played more home games surly there not going to give them an extra home game. can someones thats got alot of spare time look to see whos played who in the tops 6 n where and then count up there home and away fixtures? anyone?

Hibbyradge
05-04-2010, 08:45 PM
Number of home games before the split

Rangers 17
Celtic 16
D Utd 16
Hibs 17
M'Well 16
Yams 16

So, just based on that and the Yams fixtures (I haven't looked at how many times the others have played each other) I reckon we'll play United, Motherwell and Celtic away and we'll get Rangers and Hearts at home.

Hearts will get Rangers, Dundee United and Motherwell at home.

fife hfc
05-04-2010, 08:51 PM
Number of home games before the split

Rangers 17
Celtic 16
D Utd 16
Hibs 17
M'Well 16
Yams 16

So, just based on that and the Yams fixtures (I haven't looked at how many times the others have played each other) I reckon we'll play United, Motherwell and Celtic away and we'll get Rangers and Hearts at home.

Hearts will get Rangers, Dundee United and Motherwell at home.



Would rather have hearts and Well at home and if we won those two and lost the other fixtures we would get fourth. Somebody might have to play more away than home, hopefully the yams or well but more likely the tic as they have nothing to play for.

Argylehibby
05-04-2010, 09:03 PM
Number of home games before the split

Rangers 17
Celtic 16
D Utd 16
Hibs 17
M'Well 16
Yams 16

So, just based on that and the Yams fixtures (I haven't looked at how many times the others have played each other) I reckon we'll play United, Motherwell and Celtic away and we'll get Rangers and Hearts at home.

Hearts will get Rangers, Dundee United and Motherwell at home.

:agree: Thats how I see it too.

Hibbyradge
05-04-2010, 09:13 PM
Would rather have hearts and Well at home and if we won those two and lost the other fixtures we would get fourth. Somebody might have to play more away than home, hopefully the yams or well but more likely the tic as they have nothing to play for.

I'm pretty sure we'll get a 4th Old Firm game at Easter Road. We've already played Celtic twice, so it will be Rangers.

Danderhall Hibs
05-04-2010, 09:24 PM
I'm pretty sure we'll get a 4th Old Firm game at Easter Road. We've already played Celtic twice, so it will be Rangers.

They might try to even it out after last year when we played them both at home after the split. That would suit me - Utd, Motherwell and hearts at home.

scoopyboy
05-04-2010, 09:29 PM
I'm pretty sure we'll get a 4th Old Firm game at Easter Road. We've already played Celtic twice, so it will be Rangers.

I agree with your fixtures for us.

It could be taken into consideration however that we had five home fixtures against the OF last season including both of them after the split.

I would rather go to Ibrox a third time so as to get Well at home.

scoopyboy
05-04-2010, 09:30 PM
They might try to even it out after last year when we played them both at home after the split. That would suit me - Utd, Motherwell and hearts at home.

we won't get 3 at home. No reason we should get Utd at home for a 3rd time.

Westie1875
05-04-2010, 09:30 PM
I agree with your fixtures for us.

It could be taken into consideration however that we had five home fixtures against the OF last season including both of them after the split.

I would rather go to Ibrox a third time so as to get Well at home.

It will be ridiculous if we get Well away for a 3rd time when they are our main competition for 4th place.

Danderhall Hibs
05-04-2010, 09:31 PM
we won't get 3 at home. No reason we should get Utd at home for a 3rd time.

Well what reason is there for us getting Motherwell away 3 times? I don't think anyone can make any real sense of the split fixtures!

scoopyboy
05-04-2010, 09:42 PM
Well what reason is there for us getting Motherwell away 3 times? I don't think anyone can make any real sense of the split fixtures!

At the split we will have played 17 games at home and 16 away so to get to 19 at home and 19 away we will get 2 home games and 3 away.

We have already played twice at Ibrox, Tynecastle and Fir Park so by my reckoning we will have to go one of these places a third time. Motherwell would be my bet.

Danderhall Hibs
05-04-2010, 09:44 PM
At the split we will have played 17 games at home and 16 away so to get to 19 at home and 19 away we will get 2 home games and 3 away.

We have already played twice at Ibrox, Tynecastle and Fir Park so by my reckoning we will have to go one of these places a third time. Motherwell would be my bet.

I see your logic but you don't always have to play 19/19 do you? I'm sure teams have been 18/20 or 20/18 in the past.

hibee_girl
05-04-2010, 09:47 PM
I see your logic but you don't always have to play 19/19 do you? I'm sure teams have been 18/20 or 20/18 in the past.

:agree: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7997930.stm inverness and aberdeen according to that

scoopyboy
05-04-2010, 09:48 PM
I see your logic but you don't always have to play 19/19 do you? I'm sure teams have been 18/20 or 20/18 in the past.

You are right in saying teams have played 18/20 or 20/18 in the past but if possible they try to get it 19/19.

Not studied all the teams (only us) for this season but on occasions it may not be possible to get all teams 19 at home and away.

Argylehibby
06-04-2010, 11:06 AM
Well what reason is there for us getting Motherwell away 3 times? I don't think anyone can make any real sense of the split fixtures!

I think its based on who the SPL "believe" will make top 6 / bottom 6 at the start of the season. If they get it right then everbody plays 19 home 19 away and play everyone in their half home twice and away twice.

When someone (Motherwell) gets into the wrong half then they take the position of the team that they replaced (Aberdeen?) We were due to play Aberdeen away so will now play Motherwell away instead.

Antifa Hibs
06-04-2010, 11:10 AM
When are the top 6 fixtures announced? Is there a weekend break in between?

HibbyAndy
06-04-2010, 11:14 AM
It will be ridiculous if we get Well away for a 3rd time when they are our main competition for 4th place.

Spot on, Ill be raging if its them away!.

PeeJay
06-04-2010, 11:51 AM
Is there not some way for the stupidity of the split to be changed in future to a sensible league arrangement (18 teams for example?)? Why do the clubs and fans accept it?? Does anybody seriously consider it to be good for Scottish football or the fans??:confused:

Ken
06-04-2010, 12:01 PM
Number of home games before the split

Rangers 17
Celtic 16
D Utd 16
Hibs 17
M'Well 16
Yams 16

So, just based on that and the Yams fixtures (I haven't looked at how many times the others have played each other) I reckon we'll play United, Motherwell and Celtic away and we'll get Rangers and Hearts at home.

Hearts will get Rangers, Dundee United and Motherwell at home.

Going by the above, there will be a team that plays 20 at home and a team that plays 20 away. Rangers and Celtic will always play 19 home and 19 away, therefore I think we will get the 20 home games (as we have already played 17) and Hearts will get the 20 away (as they are 6th).

Hibs' post split fixtures (in no particular order)

Hibs v Hearts
Dundee Utd v Hibs
Hibs v Motherwell
Celtic v Hibs
Hibs v Rangers

FifeHibby
06-04-2010, 12:11 PM
Going by the above, there will be a team that plays 20 at home and a team that plays 20 away. Rangers and Celtic will always play 19 home and 19 away, therefore I think we will get the 20 home games (as we have already played 17) and Hearts will get the 20 away (as they are 6th).

Hibs' post split fixtures (in no particular order)

Hibs v Hearts
Dundee Utd v Hibs
Hibs v Motherwell
Celtic v Hibs
Hibs v Rangers

Sorry, but going by the games played there will be an imbalance in the fixtures as 4 out of the 6 are due to play 3 home games.So one team in the top 6 will have only 18 home games whilst one in the bottom 6 will have the 20 home games.
As Motherwell are the only team not in the top 6 last season it should be them, and they will take Aberdeens fixtures.
Which will mean we will play them again at Motherwell, but Motherwell will play Dundee Utd away for the 3rd time.
Hope that makes sense. It certainly shows how much of a farce the split is.

jgl07
06-04-2010, 12:38 PM
It will not be possible for all teams to play 19 home plus 19 away this year. The top six is almost done and dusted with the only doubt that St Johnstone could still pip Hearts for sixth place.

As things stand: Rangers and Hibs will have played 17 home plus 16 away pre-split.

Celtic, Dundee United, Motherwell, and either Hearts or St Johnstone will have played 16 home plus 17 away.

Therefore one of the top six will have to go with 18 home plus 20 away.

Similar issues will arise in the bottom six with St Johnstone or Hearts, and Flakirk having 16 home and 17 away while Aberdeen, Hamilton, Kilmarnock and St Mirren have 17 home and 16 away. One of the above will end up with 20 home and 18 away.

It did happen before when Hibs pipped Aberdeen for third on goal difference after the Dons had 18 home and 20 away. Inverness had 20 at home and 18 away in the bottom six. This provided a way out as Aberdeen actually played 19 matches at Pittordrie (including one Inverness 'home' match). Inverness only played around 9 matches at home, around 12 in Aberdeen and the rest away.

There are no obvious solutions to this one. The bottom half shouldn't present a problem as it is clear that Hearts or St Johnstone are unlikely to be dragged into the relegation battle. Hence they could receive the extra home match.

In the top half there are a number of issues not quite resolved (mathmatically): Rangers v Celtic for 1st, Celtic v Dundee United for 2nd, Dundee United v Hibs v Motherwell for 3rd. Hibs v Dundee United v Motherwell for 4th, Hibs v Motherwell v Hearts/St Johnstone for 5th.

The final round of fixtures may partially resolve some of these issues. This is not likely as Dundee United and Motherwell are playing the OF and Hearts are playing Killie at home, so the table is likely to tighten up between 3rd to 6th if anything.

Maybe the likely furore that whatever decision is taken will release with advance the talks to get rid of this stupid arrangement?

Fantic
06-04-2010, 12:45 PM
Because of the ER stadium arrangements, the police would prefer us to play Hearts away. I think this may happen.

SidBurns
06-04-2010, 12:50 PM
I have it on strong authority that if there is to be a fourth derby it will be at ***********. This is due to the size of the operation needed to separate fans in the South Stand. It's fine splitting the stand and keeping one set of supporters in at the end, it's getting them in that is causing Edinburgh's Finest a problem hence it will be at ***********. :agree:

Billy Whizz
06-04-2010, 01:21 PM
I have it on strong authority that if there is to be a fourth derby it will be at ***********. This is due to the size of the operation needed to separate fans in the South Stand. It's fine splitting the stand and keeping one set of supporters in at the end, it's getting them in that is causing Edinburgh's Finest a problem hence it will be at ***********. :agree:


April fool is past!

jgl07
06-04-2010, 01:24 PM
Because of the ER stadium arrangements, the police would prefer us to play Hearts away. I think this may happen.
It is more likely that Hibs will be away to both Rangers and Celtic post split. Hibs had both of them at home recently in the final quarter.

I would settle for Hearts and Motherwell at home and Celtic, Rangers and United away.

SidBurns
06-04-2010, 01:29 PM
April fool is past!

I wish it were!

Fantic
06-04-2010, 01:36 PM
I wish it were!


Don't know about that. I quite fancy another trip down there, and hopefully we can get them back for the last time.

Hibbyradge
06-04-2010, 01:43 PM
It is more likely that Hibs will be away to both Rangers and Celtic post split. Hibs had both of them at home recently in the final quarter.

I would settle for Hearts and Motherwell at home and Celtic, Rangers and United away.

With this and your Sauzee faux pas, it's not been a good day for you and statistics, has it. :greengrin

We last played Rangers at Ibrox on 14 February. We lost 3 - 0.

Prior to that we lost 4-1 at Easter Road in December and drew 1 - 1 at Ibrox last October.

Billy Whizz
06-04-2010, 01:44 PM
Don't know about that. I quite fancy another trip down there, and hopefully we can get them back for the last time.


I'm sure Mr Petrie would have something to say if we lost a full house due to the fixture been reversed to Tynescastle.
Motherwell at home would be at least 3,000 less seats sold plus additional revenue from TV coverage!

hibee_girl
06-04-2010, 03:49 PM
I have it on strong authority that if there is to be a fourth derby it will be at ***********. This is due to the size of the operation needed to separate fans in the South Stand. It's fine splitting the stand and keeping one set of supporters in at the end, it's getting them in that is causing Edinburgh's Finest a problem hence it will be at ***********. :agree:

They managed it just fine when the West was getting rebuilt

jgl07
06-04-2010, 04:05 PM
With this and your Sauzee faux pas, it's not been a good day for you and statistics, has it. :greengrin

We last played Rangers at Ibrox on 14 February. We lost 3 - 0.

Prior to that we lost 4-1 at Easter Road in December and drew 1 - 1 at Ibrox last October.
Read my posting.

I was referring to post split fixtures (final quarter) a year or two back when Hibs had two home matches in the last five against the OF and none away. I think Hibs played Rangers three times at ER and once at Ibrox.

I had a Category B season ticket (South Stand) and had to be relocated to the North for a match against Rangers. I took my South Stand voucher to the ticket office and was given a ticket in the FF Hospitality (black seats). Typically for the final match in the South Stand the turnstile operator refused to let me in because the ticket office had taken the 'wrong voucher'. I refused to budge and he backed down.

IWasThere2016
08-04-2010, 02:19 PM
When are the top 6 fixtures announced? Is there a weekend break in between?

Bump - is there a free week next weekend 17/18th?

Steve20
08-04-2010, 02:23 PM
There is no break in between.

Andy74
08-04-2010, 02:23 PM
Bump - is there a free week next weekend 17/18th?

This could get messy! :greengrin

IWasThere2016
08-04-2010, 02:26 PM
There is no break in between.

Baws! How did you find that out?


This could get messy! :greengrin

Watch it you! :wink: :greengrin

scoopyboy
08-04-2010, 03:39 PM
With this and your Sauzee faux pas, it's not been a good day for you and statistics, has it. :greengrin

We last played Rangers at Ibrox on 14 February. We lost 3 - 0.

Prior to that we lost 4-1 at Easter Road in December and drew 1 - 1 at Ibrox last October.

He is correct.

He said we played them both at home in the final quarter. We did drawing 1-1 with Rangers and 0-0 with Celtic.

He never made reference to this season.

BenjiOscar
08-04-2010, 09:55 PM
It will not be possible for all teams to play 19 home plus 19 away this year. The top six is almost done and dusted with the only doubt that St Johnstone could still pip Hearts for sixth place.

As things stand: Rangers and Hibs will have played 17 home plus 16 away pre-split.

Celtic, Dundee United, Motherwell, and either Hearts or St Johnstone will have played 16 home plus 17 away.

Therefore one of the top six will have to go with 18 home plus 20 away.

Similar issues will arise in the bottom six with St Johnstone or Hearts, and Flakirk having 16 home and 17 away while Aberdeen, Hamilton, Kilmarnock and St Mirren have 17 home and 16 away. One of the above will end up with 20 home and 18 away.

It did happen before when Hibs pipped Aberdeen for third on goal difference after the Dons had 18 home and 20 away. Inverness had 20 at home and 18 away in the bottom six. This provided a way out as Aberdeen actually played 19 matches at Pittordrie (including one Inverness 'home' match). Inverness only played around 9 matches at home, around 12 in Aberdeen and the rest away.

There are no obvious solutions to this one. The bottom half shouldn't present a problem as it is clear that Hearts or St Johnstone are unlikely to be dragged into the relegation battle. Hence they could receive the extra home match.

In the top half there are a number of issues not quite resolved (mathmatically): Rangers v Celtic for 1st, Celtic v Dundee United for 2nd, Dundee United v Hibs v Motherwell for 3rd. Hibs v Dundee United v Motherwell for 4th, Hibs v Motherwell v Hearts/St Johnstone for 5th.

The final round of fixtures may partially resolve some of these issues. This is not likely as Dundee United and Motherwell are playing the OF and Hearts are playing Killie at home, so the table is likely to tighten up between 3rd to 6th if anything.

Maybe the likely furore that whatever decision is taken will release with advance the talks to get rid of this stupid arrangement?

The sole reason that a league exists in any sport is to determine which team / individual reigns supreme amongst its fellow competitors based on common parameters.

In the SPL, there are enough variables that naturally occur throughout a season, e.g. injuries, suspensions, poor weather conditions, pitches, etc. which can benefit a side on occasion. You can have a situation where, say, St Mirren face a full strength Hibs team at Easter Road and are soundly beaten but the following week Falkirk play us and earn a draw when we are missing Stokes, Deeks, Bamba, Miller, Murray for whatever reason. It is just accepted that those types of situation can occur.

There are also other factors that potentially give a team a greater opportunity of success, e.g. more income = higher wages = better standard of player. That is unavoidable unless there is a fundamental change to the governing rules.

Why, therefore, do we have this ludicrous situation where we deliberately have a fixture schedule that, by choice, gives some teams an unfair advantage of playing more home matches than away prior to the split. And this nonsense about it being evened out over a couple of seasons - who cares - a championship is played over one season. What has gone on before is irrelevant.

Part of me does see the benefit in having the split (might make for more exciting matches if set-up correctly which is a different issue), however, if it is deemed necessary to have a split then surely it should be after each team has played each other home and away and there is no manufactured advantage given to any of the teams.

The whole timing of announcing the post-split fixtures is another fiasco. How difficult would it have been to issue a list of fixtures based on the top six being made up of Hibs, Hearts, Celtic, Rangers, Dundee Utd and Motherwell a couple of weeks ago but also with a few other provisional sets based on St Johnstone instead of Hearts, Aberdeen instead of Hearts, etc. Let's face it, we've known since January that four of the top six were certain with the other two likely to come from three or four teams.

We still won't know who we are playing next Saturday even after our game this Saturday has finished! Given that only Hearts can drop out of the top six and only St Johnstone can replace them why can't the SPL issue two provisional sets of fixtures for both scenarios? I remember now - we also have to wait until the SPL decide when the two Glasgow sides play each other which is an insult to all of the other teams.

Steve20
09-04-2010, 08:18 AM
Baws! How did you find that out?



The season ends on the 8th May and there is only 1 midweek fixture card after the split. They didn't have a break last year either, so I doubt they would this time.

IWasThere2016
09-04-2010, 09:20 AM
The season ends on the 8th May and there is only 1 midweek fixture card after the split. They didn't have a break last year either, so I doubt they would this time.

Thanks S :thumbsup: I recall there was a break last here.

Are the fixtures announced after the two midweek (Cellic-Well and Arabs-Huns) games?

hibee_girl
09-04-2010, 09:22 AM
Thanks S :thumbsup: I recall there was a break last here.

Are the fixtures announced after the two midweek (Cellic-Well and Arabs-Huns) games?

Will probably be after the weekend games, they'll know for sure who is in the top 6 then, midweek games won't make a difference