Levein v. Hughes

[Speedway]

Levein's record at the Arabs.

2006–2009 Dundee United

Played 117

Won 43

Drawn 37

Lost 37

Points Per Game 1.41

Win % 36.75

John Hughes

2009-2010 Hibernian

Played 37

Won 17

Drawn 9

Lost 11

Points Per Game 1.62

Win % 45.95

Give him a break.

He's building a side, just like Levein.

[MrSmith]

Nice one Speedway 100% concur!!

[Hibstrooper]

Well done Yogi! Great effort for a first season!

[Stevie Reid]

Well said. Levein had a good eye for a player, but still had several transfer windows to move players in and out. These things take time - if Yogi can bring another few players with the pedigree of Stokes, Miller (though not in the best form at the moment) and Brown over the next few windows, the squad will be formidable.

[Woody1985]

Excellent stats.

Any manager that can get near a 50% win rate is doing extremely well.

If we'd have scattered our wins throughout the season and didn't have a tremendous start to the season then we'd all be hailing Yogi on here.

Yes, things have gotten pretty **** recently but we're still where we'd hoped to have been at the start of the season.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Excellent stats.

Any manager that can get near a 50% win rate is doing extremely well.

If we'd have scattered our wins throughout the season and didn't have a tremendous start to the season then we'd all be hailing Yogi on here.

Yes, things have gotten pretty **** recently but we're still where we'd hoped to have been at the start of the season.

true but you can use stats to prove pretty much anything you want, for example in the last ten games we have won only two. Replicate that over a season an we will get relegated.

Talk is cheap, I want actions!!

p.s. never checked my stats so i'm open to abuse if I got it wrong:greengrin

[basehibby]

true but you can use stats to prove pretty much anything you want, for example in the last ten games we have won only two. Replicate that over a season an we will get relegated.

Talk is cheap, I want actions!!

p.s. never checked my stats so i'm open to abuse if I got it wrong:greengrin

That would be a pretty blinkered view to take on the stats front.

I think that the OP makes a very valid point and backs it up with solid facts - ie that it takes time to build a good football team, demonstrated clearly by Levein's steady improvement at Dundee Utd.

Your stat - winning 2 of the last 10 league games is wrong - we've won 3 of the last 10 league fixtures. That this form would possibly get us relegated over a season may well be true - but it is also 100 miles from the reality that this same team went on a superb run earlier on in the season which has left us in fourth place and in with a chance of European football next season.

You are of course right in stating that statistics can be used to prove just about anything - you yourself with your (erroneous) stat have proved beyond all doubt the old adage that if yer auntie had balls she'd be your uncle - well done!

[bighairyfaeleith]

That would be a pretty blinkered view to take on the stats front.

I think that the OP makes a very valid point and backs it up with solid facts - ie that it takes time to build a good football team, demonstrated clearly by Levein's steady improvement at Dundee Utd.

Your stat - winning 2 of the last 10 league games is wrong - we've won 3 of the last 10 league fixtures. That this form would possibly get us relegated over a season may well be true - but it is also 100 miles from the reality that this same team went on a superb run earlier on in the season which has left us in fourth place and in with a chance of European football next season.

You are of course right in stating that statistics can be used to prove just about anything - you yourself with your (erroneous) stat have proved beyond all doubt the old adage that if yer auntie had balls she'd be your uncle - well done!

I did say I'd left myself open to it, I wonder what mixus stats where for bis first year, anyone?

[Jack]

I did say I'd left myself open to it, I wonder what mixus stats where for bis first year, anyone?

Not got the year but in total 56 games; 1.09 goals for, 1.14 against; 1.27 points per match.



Walter (at der hun) 160 games 1.89 goals for 0.80 against 2.09 ppm
Two faced Mowbray (at Celtc) 44 1.77 1.02 1.77 ppm
Yogi.(at Hibs) 37 1.59 1.19 1.62 ppm
Harry Potter (at DU) 117 1.37 1.21 1.50 ppm
Tango (at the Sheep) 135 1.28 1.18 1.48 ppm
Cheer up (at Killie) 144 1.20 1.13 1.44 ppm
Greetin faced git (at the Well) 80 1.40 1.25 1.40 ppm
Cheer up (at Hearts) 9 1.33 1.11 1.33 ppm
Two faced Mowbray (at Hibs) 42 1.40 1.50 1.24 ppm
Yogi (when he was a Bairn) 142 1.11 1.39 1.15 ppm
Tango (at Killie) 16 1.00 1.44 1.13 ppm
Greetin faced git (at the Sheep) 35 1.00 1.43 1.09 ppm

[Cropley10]

Not got the year but in total 56 games; 1.09 goals for, 1.14 against; 1.27 points per match.



Walter (at der hun) 160 games 1.89 goals for 0.80 against 2.09 ppm
Two faced Mowbray (at Celtc) 44 1.77 1.02 1.77 ppm
Yogi.(at Hibs) 37 1.59 1.19 1.62 ppm
Harry Potter (at DU) 117 1.37 1.21 1.50 ppm
Tango (at the Sheep) 135 1.28 1.18 1.48 ppm
Cheer up (at Killie) 144 1.20 1.13 1.44 ppm
Greetin faced git (at the Well) 80 1.40 1.25 1.40 ppm
Cheer up (at Hearts) 9 1.33 1.11 1.33 ppm
Two faced Mowbray (at Hibs) 42 1.40 1.50 1.24 ppm
Tango (at Killie) 16 1.00 1.44 1.13 ppm
Greetin faced git (at the Sheep) 35 1.00 1.43 1.09 ppm


Wow - impressive stuff!

What are Yogi's stats at Falkirk like then? Plenty of time there to get his ideas across etc...

[Sergio sledge]

I did say I'd left myself open to it, I wonder what mixus stats where for bis first year, anyone?

1st 37 games managing Hibs:

Manager Played Won Drawn Lost
Yogi 37 17 (45.9%) 9 (24.4%) 11 (29.7%)
Mixu 37 12 (32.4%) 8 (21.6%) 17 (45.9%)
Collins 37 17 (45.9%) 9 (24.4%) 11 (29.7%)
Mowbray 37 19 (51.4%) 6 (16.2%) 12 (32.4%)


Overall record managing Hibs:

Manager Played Won Drawn Lost
Yogi 37 17 (45.9%) 9 (24.4%) 11 (29.7%)
Mixu 62 19 (30.6%) 18 (29%) 25 (40.4%)
Collins 54 23 (42.6%) 15 (27.8%) 16 (29.6%)
Mowbray 108 52 (48.1%) 16 (14.8%) 40 (37.1%)


Not exactly sure what the point of this is, other than to show that we have had a ridiculous amount of managers in the last wee while. In fact, since Mowbray started, the average amount of games a manager gets is 65, before he leaves the Hibs, not even two full seasons. How anyone can expect managers to build sustained success over less than two seasons is beyond me. Mowbray had an instant impression, but you could argue that his team was built up over a few seasons, and only truly realised its potential after he left.

The board have to be brave IMHO, and stick by its choice of Hughes as our manager. He should be given time to build a team and change the philosophy of the club gradually. It could be argued that Collins tried to change the club too quickly, making wholesale changes in his first summer transfer window and a rash of signings which weren't a success. Hughes has retained the core of the team from last season, making a few changes in the squad, and will no doubt do the same again this summer, we have to stick with it. We are in no danger of being relegated, and in no danger of dropping out of the top six (top six should be our minimum target each season) so we have to take the rough with the smooth and give Hughes time to see out his vision.

Incidentally, Hughes record at Falkirk, with whom he had plenty of time, but not plenty of resources, was

Played - 283
Won - 117 (41.3%)
Drawn - 61 (21.5%)
Lost - 105 (37.1%)

Not too shabby IMHO for a team which never had the resources to step up out of the bottom six in the league.

[Jack]

Wow - impressive stuff!

What are Yogi's stats at Falkirk like then? Plenty of time there to get his ideas across etc...

I've added it in

Yogi; 142; 1.11; 1.39; 1.15 ppm

I didn't include this first time round, or the other managers who I did not consider Yogi to be 'in the mix with', and also being Falkirk were generally fighting against relegation. I did include the bigots purely for illustrative purposes.

[Barney McGrew]

It's also worth noting that in Levein's first full season in charge at United, they won only two games in their final league fifteen fixtures (and one of them was against Gretna).

By that time, Levein had three transfer windows to bring in players as well.

[gillythehibby]

I said on another thread last night that levein took 3 years to get UTD back up the league and that Hibs should do the same with Yogi. Only then could you compare the 2 managers. Time is needed to build a team and Yogi started off really well. This shows he has at least a modicum of talent for the job. I'm sure he knows what needs to be done. If we finish 4th, that would be progress. Not great considering, but progress. Judge him this time next season.

[Jack]

I suspect the post I have above for the manager formely known as St Tony is for his final 42 games while at Hibs. I thought when I was doing it the number of games was low. Sorry for any confusion. :boo hoo:

[H18sry]

Is Dundee United not Peter Houstons team :confused:

[Arch Stanton]

Give him a break.

He's building a side, just like Levein.

Building a team using players with proven SPL credentials can't really be compared to building a team including lower division players can it?

Levein's route involved more risk but with the end result of having a lower wage bill.

If it was my call then I'd want to make sure I thought that Hughes really knew what he was doing before risking another season with him.

I know that Hibs are rebuilding the East Stand because the evidence is there for all to see - I just don't see the work in progress with Hughes.

[Betty Boop]

Why did Mixu not get time to build a team then?

[mjhibby]

Just as a wee aside have not the arabs faltered on the run in the last two season culminating in them last season losing out on europe on the last day.Yogi is being tested now and it could be one or two players arent fully with him but was that not what harry potter found in the last two seasons and he soon got them out the door and brought in guys who he could rely on.What united have now has taken three years and yogi has had 9 months.I suspect that atleast 5 or 6 players will be away in the summer and 6 new guys in.Judge yogi come november time and remember he will probably end up with the highest points total for about 5 or 6 years by my reckoning.

[mjhibby]

I said on another thread last night that levein took 3 years to get UTD back up the league and that Hibs should do the same with Yogi. Only then could you compare the 2 managers. Time is needed to build a team and Yogi started off really well. This shows he has at least a modicum of talent for the job. I'm sure he knows what needs to be done. If we finish 4th, that would be progress. Not great considering, but progress. Judge him this time next season.

How many times in the spl have we finished 4th or higher,not many so to say the jury is out on yogi being 4th is ridiculous.Im sure hertz and aberdeen fans would love to be on 50 points just now so lets get it into perspective.We are srtill having our best season points wise for many seasons.Still think had hogg not given away that stupid penalty we would have got at least a draw.

[Eaststand]

Levein's record at the Arabs.

2006–2009 Dundee United

Played 117

Won 43

Drawn 37

Lost 37

Points Per Game 1.41

Win % 36.75

John Hughes

2009-2010 Hibernian

Played 37

Won 17

Drawn 9

Lost 11

Points Per Game 1.62

Win % 45.95

Give him a break.

He's building a side, just like Levein.

Good post speedway, and as much as we all hate getting beat, we need some stability at our club, and Yogi will deliver the goods if he gets time to build his team

GGTTH

[Eaststand]

How many times in the spl have we finished 4th or higher,not many so to say the jury is out on yogi being 4th is ridiculous.Im sure hertz and aberdeen fans would love to be on 50 points just now so lets get it into perspective.We are srtill having our best season points wise for many seasons.Still think had hogg not given away that stupid penalty we would have got at least a draw.

Yep it's hard to say what would have happened if IF...
...But the penalty they got was at a time when we were looking pretty good, and took us back a bit. The Nish miss when he was clear through the centre was pivotal too cos that would have got us back to 2 each and the crowd behind the team again.