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MacBean
27-03-2010, 01:38 PM
I know there have been many, many complaints about the quality of the pitch at easter road and i have seen the pics from the redevelopment timelapse, but has anyone been down to ER and had a good close look?

We've had absolutely no football on it for a fortnight and it wont be touched until wednesday when D .Utd come calling.

Has it improvd significantly? I would expect it to have since its been untouched and we've had an improvement in the weather!

Parks like Saughton, Gyle, Jack Kane are played on 4 times a weekend at least and they are in MUCH better nick than the mud bath at ER.

archiebald
27-03-2010, 02:28 PM
The pitches at Saughton have never been better.

Viva_Palmeiras
27-03-2010, 04:41 PM
The irony is it may be due in part to the undersoil heating.

Hibs Class
27-03-2010, 06:04 PM
It should get better in the next week or two as the grass is starting to grow again

Gatecrasher
27-03-2010, 06:10 PM
http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/EastStand/0,,10290,00.html

there is a picture taken a few days ago at the bottom of this page, it looks a bit better but still needs time :agree:

the happy hibee
27-03-2010, 06:14 PM
The irony is it may be due in part to the undersoil heating.
Its nothing to do with the undersoil heating the proplem is the soil structure! we have something called black layer about an inch down which doesnt let the grass roots go through it so the rootzone is only 1 inch which doesnt give you strong rootzone so when the weather turns wet in the winter time the pitch cuts up so easy with the rootzone being so bad! there should be a lot more grass on it for wed night but we will still have the problem with it cutting up but it shoudnt be as bad as it has been! :notworthy:

sahib
27-03-2010, 06:34 PM
Its nothing to do with the undersoil heating the proplem is the soil structure! we have something called black layer about an inch down which doesnt let the grass roots go through it so the rootzone is only 1 inch which doesnt give you strong rootzone so when the weather turns wet in the winter time the pitch cuts up so easy with the rootzone being so bad! there should be a lot more grass on it for wed night but we will still have the problem with it cutting up but it shoudnt be as bad as it has been! :notworthy:

Why was this not dug up or rotavated or treated in some way before the pitch was re turfed?

the happy hibee
28-03-2010, 01:20 PM
Why was this not dug up or rotavated or treated in some way before the pitch was re turfed?
It happened after it was returfed! Black layer happens when the pitch gets treated badly ie such as constant rolling of the pitch and no aeroating like spiking or coring of some sort this starves the pitch of air and seals the soil structure and creates this layer which no groundsman wants! the famous tam didnt know enough about the job and before he knew it it was to late to fix it without riping up the whole pitch which the club couldnt aforrd it at the time! the pitch has had this problem for 5 years it just that its got worse and worse as the years have gone on! :notworthy:

greenlex
28-03-2010, 01:22 PM
It happened after it was returfed! Black layer happens when the pitch gets treated badly ie such as constant rolling of the pitch and no aeroating like spiking or coring of some sort this starves the pitch of air and seals the soil structure and creates this layer which no groundsman wants! the famous tam didnt know enough about the job and before he knew it it was to late to fix it without riping up the whole pitch which the club couldnt aforrd it at the time! the pitch has had this problem for 5 years it just that its got worse and worse as the years have gone on! :notworthy:
I am sure I saw the pitch getting spiked or cored on the tellybox the other week.

steviecarnie
28-03-2010, 01:28 PM
One thing i noticed recently is ive never seen the pitch at easter road being watered! no matter what time of year it is, everytime u see a premiership pitch (esp Old Trafford) its being watered. i know at the moment thats not really gonna help as will just make it muddy. but next season installing sprinklers may help keep the surface greener for longer.

before anyone suggests we get enough rain.
Edinburgh gets on avg 668 mm
Manchester gets on avg 809mm

greenlex
28-03-2010, 01:29 PM
One thing i noticed recently is ive never seen the pitch at easter road being watered! no matter what time of year it is, everytime u see a premiership pitch (esp Old Trafford) its being watered. i know at the moment thats not really gonna help as will just make it muddy. but next season installing sprinklers may help keep the surface greener for longer.

before anyone suggests we get enough rain.
Edinburgh gets on avg 668 mm
Manchester gets on avg 809mm
Was watered at half time last home game!!:confused:

steviecarnie
28-03-2010, 01:32 PM
Was watered at half time last home game!!:confused:

Must've missed that. but then again i was freezing that day and was huddled inside. trying in vain to get warm.

Hakim Sar
28-03-2010, 01:37 PM
we have sprinklers just not really used much in winter.

pitch was watered before during and after **** c****y game

the happy hibee
28-03-2010, 01:45 PM
I am sure I saw the pitch getting spiked or cored on the tellybox the other week.
Yes it does get done now because the new company know what they are doing the problem occurred 5 years ago when a cetain i won the cup tam was in charge!

_hucks_
28-03-2010, 01:49 PM
One thing i noticed recently is ive never seen the pitch at easter road being watered! no matter what time of year it is, everytime u see a premiership pitch (esp Old Trafford) its being watered. i know at the moment thats not really gonna help as will just make it muddy. but next season installing sprinklers may help keep the surface greener for longer.

before anyone suggests we get enough rain.
Edinburgh gets on avg 668 mm
Manchester gets on avg 809mm

Used to do security at ER, and before the fans get in its thoroughly watered before every game.

Lofarl
28-03-2010, 02:17 PM
Is the pitch not getting replaced at the end of season?

Alfred E Newman
28-03-2010, 06:42 PM
Its nothing to do with the undersoil heating the proplem is the soil structure! we have something called black layer about an inch down which doesnt let the grass roots go through it so the rootzone is only 1 inch which doesnt give you strong rootzone so when the weather turns wet in the winter time the pitch cuts up so easy with the rootzone being so bad! there should be a lot more grass on it for wed night but we will still have the problem with it cutting up but it shoudnt be as bad as it has been! :notworthy:

and maybe a couple of inches of snow. :grr:

the happy hibee
28-03-2010, 08:20 PM
and maybe a couple of inches of snow. :grr:
I know mate ive just seen the forecast! I thought we had seen the last of the snow aswell :grr:

Ross4356
29-03-2010, 02:49 PM
Talking about the pitch, since it is getting replaced and widned by 4m (to meet fifa internation standards)

Do you think the ones at EM's will be to?(Since they are the size of the current pitch) or is this not possible?

Hibs Class
29-03-2010, 03:02 PM
Talking about the pitch, since it is getting replaced and widned by 4m (to meet fifa internation standards)

Do you think the ones at EM's will be to?(Since they are the size of the current pitch) or is this not possible?


I'm pretty sure our pitch is already FIFA compliant. As far as I can see the pitch is currently 112 x 74 yards, and the FIFA minimum for international pitches is 110 x 70 yards. I think we're just making it wider because the position of the new stand means we can.

Ross4356
29-03-2010, 03:36 PM
I'm pretty sure our pitch is already FIFA compliant. As far as I can see the pitch is currently 112 x 74 yards, and the FIFA minimum for international pitches is 110 x 70 yards. I think we're just making it wider because the position of the new stand means we can.

Might be wrong mate but I think it can do FIFA friendly matchs (Like the South Korea game we had) but not competative match's like a Scotland qualifying match

hibee_nation
29-03-2010, 03:58 PM
If we were not rebuilding the east stand the pitch size would be ok. If a club is making improvements they must make changes to the size of the pitch to bring them into line with uefa reqirements. Not sure what those sizes are and i think the run off areas are something to do with the changes to the west stand. Clear as mud i know. :greengrin

mjh
29-03-2010, 04:02 PM
pitches for world cup in SA will be 64m x 100m or 70yds x 109.3yds

greenlex
29-03-2010, 04:11 PM
If we were not rebuilding the east stand the pitch size would be ok. If a club is making improvements they must make changes to the size of the pitch to bring them into line with uefa reqirements. Not sure what those sizes are and i think the run off areas are something to do with the changes to the west stand. Clear as mud i know. :greengrin
Correct about run off areas. At Pinkcastle they removed a row of seats behind the goals to be YOOFA compliant. That is why the first row of seats is row 2. Its funny to see the confusion at a Derby.

Baader
29-03-2010, 05:22 PM
Trust they'll get it sorted for next season. Having a great academy and 4 good stands but a pitch you cannae knock a ball 3 yards along without it bobbling up all over the place doesn't make any sense...

Scouse Hibee
30-03-2010, 07:29 AM
It happened after it was returfed! Black layer happens when the pitch gets treated badly ie such as constant rolling of the pitch and no aeroating like spiking or coring of some sort this starves the pitch of air and seals the soil structure and creates this layer which no groundsman wants! the famous tam didnt know enough about the job and before he knew it it was to late to fix it without riping up the whole pitch which the club couldnt aforrd it at the time! the pitch has had this problem for 5 years it just that its got worse and worse as the years have gone on! :notworthy:

You seems to know a lot about it which is fair enough but it seems strange that if as you say this problem is five years old we haven't been able to do anything about it? The pitch seemed to be a lot better when Tam was the main man but you're saying he has actaully contributed to the awful state it is in. Not doubting what you're saying it just seems a strange probelm to have go on for so long especially as financially we surely could have relayed the pitch if it was really needed.

Scooter
30-03-2010, 07:35 AM
Correct about run off areas. At Pinkcastle they removed a row of seats behind the goals to be YOOFA compliant. That is why the first row of seats is row 2. Its funny to see the confusion at a Derby.

I wonder if hibs will do the same :wink:

greenginger
30-03-2010, 08:40 AM
If we were not rebuilding the east stand the pitch size would be ok. If a club is making improvements they must make changes to the size of the pitch to bring them into line with uefa reqirements. Not sure what those sizes are and i think the run off areas are something to do with the changes to the west stand. Clear as mud i know. :greengrin


Does that mean if they ever rebuild the main stand at the PBS they will have to take out about the front 10 rows of the other stands ?
Not fit for purpose - Pieman was right all along.

Danderhall Hibs
30-03-2010, 08:44 AM
Pieman was right all along.

He's been proven right for a long time now - they could've been debt free with no stadium if they'd done what he said. Now they're £30m in debt with Tiny's going to be owned by UBIG.

Ken
30-03-2010, 11:29 AM
You seems to know a lot about it which is fair enough but it seems strange that if as you say this problem is five years old we haven't been able to do anything about it? The pitch seemed to be a lot better when Tam was the main man but you're saying he has actaully contributed to the awful state it is in. Not doubting what you're saying it just seems a strange probelm to have go on for so long especially as financially we surely could have relayed the pitch if it was really needed.

The problem is the roots were around 5/6 inches long when the pitch was 1st laid 5 years ago, therefore it has only been a noticable problem over the last season or so, because the roots are now about 1 inch thick, so the pitch cuts up easily.

The whole pitch is being dug up and re-laid at the end of the season, therefore we will have a decent pitch by the end of the year :agree:

sambajustice
30-03-2010, 11:35 AM
I was at Easter Road the whole weekend and the pitch doesnt look that bad when compared to a few (most) other pitches in the SPL. I dont think its a problem that is just affecting our pitch. Pitches in general are completely honking. It was in a worse state in 2009 than it is now.

There were 3 massive massive sheets covering about 2/3 of the pitch over the weekend. No idea what these are for. They were laid out on Friday and were still there on sunday about 6pm.

--------
30-03-2010, 11:59 AM
Talking about the pitch, since it is getting replaced and widned by 4m (to meet fifa internation standards)

Do you think the ones at EM's will be to?(Since they are the size of the current pitch) or is this not possible?


Just a case of relining the pitches there, I'd imagine. Plenty of space.

Since the new East means that the pitch is being widened - which means that the goals will be moved a couple of metres to the East as well - I'd hope we could also deal with the problem of black layer that happy hibee refers to.

I have to say I've never heard of this before, but I googled it and found this at www.onlineturf.co.uk (http://www.onlineturf.co.uk) :

Black Layer


Black layer in turf grass soils causes eventual death to the grass plant on the surface through suffocation of the roots. This condition is rare in most soils but can be a problem with heavily maintained sandy soils, waterlogged soils and those that are heavily fertilised.

What is black layer?

Black layer is aptly named as it appears as a black, foul-smelling band or streaks within the soil. It can range in thickness from fractions of an inch to an inch or more. Chemically black layer is a deposit of metal sulphides encouraged by the activity of anaerobic bacteria. It forms when hydrogen sulphide gas reacts with elements such as iron and magnesium in the soil.

How to spot black layer

Remove portions of the soil and visually inspecting the sample(s) is the easiest method to use in the identification of this condition. You will see either a black coloured band or streaks and will most likely be able to smell an odour like rotting eggs. Surface symptoms include yellowing or death of the leaves in with no particular pattern being expressed by the plant.

Background to the condition

There are many types of bacteria in soils, aerobic bacteria are beneficial to us as they break down organic matter and make nutrients available for plant uptake. These thrive in soils that have high levels of oxygen available, they respire (breath out) carbon dioxide like us. When a soil is compact or waterlogged oxygen levels are greatly or completely reduced this can lead to the demise of the aerobic bacteria. At this point anaerobic bacteria can dominate.

Anaerobic bacteria respire hydrogen sulphide; this gas bonds the metallic ions such as iron and magnesium together forming what we know as black layer. This layer can further reduce the ability of water to penetrate through the soil while also inhibiting root movement and growth. Hydrogen sulphide actually poisons the grass plant roots. Death of roots will lead to the eventual death of the plant on the surface.

High levels or an abundance of sulphur, low levels of oxygen and high levels of organic matter in the soil are all conditions that can also encourage the incidence of black layer. The anaerobic bacteria need sulphur in order to function (as we need oxygen), trace elements of oxygen actually kill the anaerobic bacteria and organic matter acts as the food and energy source for the bacteria.

Control of black layer

Control of black layer is easily achieved. Regular deep tine aeration practises break through the black layer and increase the levels of oxygen in the soil killing the anaerobic bacteria whilst having the added benefit helping reduce the amounts of organic matter in the soil the problematic bacteria require for food.

It sounds as if each new layer of turf we've laid over the past few years has simply died because of this problem. If I've understood the above, re-laying the pitch isn't the answer - we may need to dig up and remove this black layer, and then make sure we keep the new re-laid pitch well watered and aerated so that the turf remains healthy. We have the chance to do this this summer - I hope that the board takes the opportunity, and that we get things sorted before the new season. I've always thought that the pitch has a great deal to do with the way a team plays. If the team trusts the surface they're playing on, they play with a lot more confidence and spirit.

Maybe one (or two?) of our previous managers got into the habit of telling Tam McCourt to roll the pitch flat like a cricket square gets rolled before games? :rolleyes:

PeeJay
30-03-2010, 12:12 PM
I think a lot of problems with pitches may have to do with the stands that now surround grounds like ER. So the pitch may well get worse when the new East Stand is up? The reasoning being that the high stands block out sufficient sunlight from actually reaching the grass for long enough for it to grow/recuperate.
Over here in Germany, Schalke have a pitch that is mounted on a hydraulic roller system and they physically roll the whole pitch out off the ground and park it in the sunlight! It costs something like €10,000 a go, so of late they've not being rolling it in and out so often and the pitch looked like the proverbial potato field against Bayern recently causing a huge outcry. I think Bayern Munich rolls out a new pitch every so often down in the Allianz Arena because they've got bags of money apparently - watch this evening it looks in pristine condition.
Seeing as we don't have such financial resources maybe an artificial turf is the way forward?? Sepp Blätter seems all for it - why are we not considering it??

Gatecrasher
30-03-2010, 12:17 PM
I think a lot of problems with pitches may have to do with the stands that now surround grounds like ER. So the pitch may well get worse when the new East Stand is up? The reasoning being that the high stands block out sufficient sunlight from actually reaching the grass for long enough for it to grow/recuperate.
Over here in Germany, Schalke have a pitch that is mounted on a hydraulic roller system and they physically roll the whole pitch out off the ground and park it in the sunlight! It costs something like €10,000 a go, so of late they've not being rolling it in and out so often and the pitch looked like the proverbial potato field against Bayern recently causing a huge outcry. I think Bayern Munich rolls out a new pitch every so often down in the Allianz Arena because they've got bags of money apparently - watch this evening it looks in pristine condition.
Seeing as we don't have such financial resources maybe an artificial turf is the way forward?? Sepp Blätter seems all for it - why are we not considering it??


the only thing i would say to that is Falkirks pitch looks bad and they only have 3 ends,

i would say it could be a factor but i think we just have to accept its been a really bad winter (the worst in about 30 years depending on your news source) and the pitches have suffered, if hibs had loads of spare cash it would look like Arsenals or man u but we dont and have to wait untill we get a new pitch next year.

--------
30-03-2010, 12:28 PM
the only thing i would say to that is Falkirks pitch looks bad and they only have 3 ends,

i would say it could be a factor but i think we just have to accept its been a really bad winter (the worst in about 30 years depending on your news source) and the pitches have suffered, if hibs had loads of spare cash it would look like Arsenals or man u but we dont and have to wait untill we get a new pitch next year.


Arsenal have a pitch that combines plastic interweave with the natural turf. I don't know what they're called, but they're provide the very best surface for playing football, rugby, and gridiron on.

The problem is that they're very expensive to maintain.

I would like to see the authorities in Scotland OK the use of synthetic pitches for all levels of the game here. The best ones now are very good indeed; they guarantee a consistent playing surface throughout the year regardless of weather, they're maintenance-friendly, and they encourage the sort of football we all would like to see Hibs playing.

the happy hibee
30-03-2010, 06:06 PM
You seems to know a lot about it which is fair enough but it seems strange that if as you say this problem is five years old we haven't been able to do anything about it? The pitch seemed to be a lot better when Tam was the main man but you're saying he has actaully contributed to the awful state it is in. Not doubting what you're saying it just seems a strange probelm to have go on for so long especially as financially we surely could have relayed the pitch if it was really needed.
The reason we never did anything about it was it would mean riping up the whole pitch and going down about 10 inches to get the infected soil out which would mean getting that amount of top soil in to replace that and then get new turf in aswell which would cost if it was done properley between £250000-£300000 and with that being 5 years ago at the time we did not have the money back then 2 afford it!

seven-heaven
30-03-2010, 06:50 PM
Platters

Diclonius
30-03-2010, 07:02 PM
It'll be fine.

givescotlandfreedom
30-03-2010, 07:09 PM
At ER the temporary lights are getting a run out. Hopefully they're fixing the pitch as the West's are on too.

Alfred E Newman
30-03-2010, 07:48 PM
the only thing i would say to that is Falkirks pitch looks bad and they only have 3 ends,

i would say it could be a factor but i think we just have to accept its been a really bad winter (the worst in about 30 years depending on your news source) and the pitches have suffered, if hibs had loads of spare cash it would look like Arsenals or man u but we dont and have to wait untill we get a new pitch next year.

They have 2 ends and one side. :greengrin

CMac1988
30-03-2010, 08:20 PM
What's the pitch like tonight? Is it snowing in edinburgh?

As it's been snowing for about 4-5 hours non stop through here in Broxburn.

bubblesmorrison
30-03-2010, 09:32 PM
One thing i noticed recently is ive never seen the pitch at easter road being watered! no matter what time of year it is, everytime u see a premiership pitch (esp Old Trafford) its being watered. i know at the moment thats not really gonna help as will just make it muddy. but next season installing sprinklers may help keep the surface greener for longer.

before anyone suggests we get enough rain.
Edinburgh gets on avg 668 mm
Manchester gets on avg 809mm

ive seen the spriklers on loads at easter road at half time :confused:

givescotlandfreedom
30-03-2010, 09:44 PM
What's the pitch like tonight? Is it snowing in edinburgh?

As it's been snowing for about 4-5 hours non stop through here in Broxburn.

Just rain, rain and more rain in Leith. With a horrible wind too.

Alex Trager
31-03-2010, 03:02 PM
In the picture on the back page it has a very small part of the park in it ,but it looks pretty good....However it'll probably be very bad now i've said that