How have Dundee United done it? (merged)

[EasterRoad4Ever]

Watching United v the Huns tonight, its plain what attributes they have that Hibs patently do not - physical presence and fight. Every one of their players is competing for the ball and winning their one to one battles all over the pitch. None of them are bothered about getting kicked or end up on their erkies in order to compete. They are putting a shift in and - even if it doesn't come off - just keep on going. Impressive effort.

Compare that to this current bunch of Hibs weak-minded, lazy midgets and IMHO we don't have a hope of getting 3rd place. DUFC are much better kitted out for Europe and the run in.

[Bob Box Fish]

Watching United v the Huns tonight, its plain what attributes they have that Hibs patently do not - physical presence and fight. Every one of their players is competing for the ball and winning their one to one battles all over the pitch. None of them are bothered about getting kicked or end up on their erkies in order to compete. They are putting a shift in and - even if it doesn't come off - just keep on going. Impressive effort.

Compare that to this current bunch of Hibs weak-minded, lazy midgets and IMHO we don't have a hope of getting 3rd place. DUFC are much better kitted out for Europe and the run in.

True, but their defence is slow if WE played the right players in the right positions we have the pace to get in behind them.

Why not play bamba holding role, Murray and miller centre mid? Two ball winners and a passer. Zemmana if fit one wing and Galbraith on other. Stokes up front so zemmana / Galbraith can create for him. Defence - McCormack , hanlon, hogg and Stevenson.

[blackpoolhibs]

Watching United v the Huns tonight, its plain what attributes they have that Hibs patently do not - physical presence and fight. Every one of their players is competing for the ball and winning their one to one battles all over the pitch. None of them are bothered about getting kicked or end up on their erkies in order to compete. They are putting a shift in and - even if it doesn't come off - just keep on going. Impressive effort.

Compare that to this current bunch of Hibs weak-minded, lazy midgets and IMHO we don't have a hope of getting 3rd place. DUFC are much better kitted out for Europe and the run in.

How long have they had to put that team together?

[truehibernian]

Played them off the park at ER this season with pace, guile and Zemmama at full pelt. Riordan missed from a yard out to make it 2-0 too. They are beatable but they are brimming with confidence, we aint.

[EasterRoad4Ever]

True, but their defence is slow if WE played the right players in the right positions we have the pace to get in behind them.

Why not play bamba holding role, Murray and miller centre mid? Two ball winners and a passer. Zemmana if fit one wing and Galbraith on other. Stokes up front so zemmana / Galbraith can create for him. Defence - McCormack , hanlon, hogg and Stevenson.

Agreed, but they are big, physical, don't piss about and do the basics well. That's what you need in defenders. Let the others play the football.

[hibsbollah]

Why not play bamba holding role, Murray and miller centre mid? Two ball winners and a passer. Zemmana if fit one wing and Galbraith on other. Stokes up front so zemmana / Galbraith can create for him. Defence - McCormack , hanlon, hogg and Stevenson.

Absolutely love that team:agree: Attacking 451.

[allmodcons]

Watching United v the Huns tonight, its plain what attributes they have that Hibs patently do not - physical presence and fight. Every one of their players is competing for the ball and winning their one to one battles all over the pitch. None of them are bothered about getting kicked or end up on their erkies in order to compete. They are putting a shift in and - even if it doesn't come off - just keep on going. Impressive effort.

Compare that to this current bunch of Hibs weak-minded, lazy midgets and IMHO we don't have a hope of getting 3rd place. DUFC are much better kitted out for Europe and the run in.

Typical overreaction to current problems at Hibs. I actually think DU have quite a good balance, but you make it sound like there's a huge gulf between them and us.

Last time I looked they were 2 points ahead of us in the SPL, and don't forget they've had their 'moments' this season aswell (eg - 7v1 at Ibrox against 10 men).

[hibsbollah]

Lifelong Hibby Danny Swanson just come on for the Arabs.

Would be a good signing, except he's only 5'6", would be castigated as a 'hobbit', 'never Hibs Class' and 'not the Matty Jack-type we so badly need'.

Stay where you are Danny:thumbsup:

[Tyler Durden]

Lifelong Hibby Danny Swanson just come on for the Arabs.

Would be a good signing, except he's only 5'6", would be castigated as a 'hobbit', 'never Hibs Class' and 'not the Matty Jack-type we so badly need'.

Stay where you are Danny:thumbsup:
Utd's midfield is generally Swanson, Gomis, Buaben and Conway. Hardly the land of the giants but let's continue to blame us having a small midfield for all our problems. Didn't seem an issue pre Xmas.

[HibbyRod]

....Allied to Hibs flair(?) could be the perfect balance in Scottish Football!!.....at least for us Hibbees!!!

John Hughes must take this on board!..... for his ethos?......surely? :confused: :dunno:

[allmodcons]

Utd's midfield is generally Swanson, Gomis, Buaben and Conway. Hardly the land of the giants but let's continue to blame us having a small midfield for all our problems. Didn't seem an issue pre Xmas.

:agree: Right now most of the posters on here see all things negative with regard to Hibs set up and pick all the positives when looking at other SPL sides.

[hibsbollah]

Utd's midfield is generally Swanson, Gomis, Buaben and Conway. Hardly the land of the giants but let's continue to blame us having a small midfield for all our problems. Didn't seem an issue pre Xmas.

:agree:

[IWasThere2016]

Arabs bossed midfield - didn't surrender it!

And TWO up front!

Just hope Yogi was watching and learning!

[Tyler Durden]

Aye Craig Brown is suddenly up there with Capello and Hearts have loads of promising youngsters.
By the same token, the most frustrating aspect of our recent malaise is that IMO we do have better players than our non OF rivals. So why can they not produce?

[007 Mickey Weir]

True, but their defence is slow if WE played the right players in the right positions we have the pace to get in behind them.

Why not play bamba holding role, Murray and miller centre mid? Two ball winners and a passer. Zemmana if fit one wing and Galbraith on other. Stokes up front so zemmana / Galbraith can create for him. Defence - McCormack , hanlon, hogg and Stevenson.


What about giving Booth a go at Left back??

[blackpoolhibs]

Aye Craig Brown is suddenly up there with Capello and Hearts have loads of promising youngsters.
By the same token, the most frustrating aspect of our recent malaise is that IMO we do have better players than our non OF rivals. So why can they not produce?

I dont think so, we have some better, maybe 2 or 3, but we dont have a better team than Dundee Urd.

[Bob Box Fish]

What about giving Booth a go at Left back??

why not, give the lad a chance.

[madabouthibs]

I think we have better players that DU, but they have a better team. :agree:

[HibbyRod]

Typical overreaction to current problems at Hibs. I actually think DU have quite a good balance, but you make it sound like there's a huge gulf between them and us.

Last time I looked they were 2 points ahead of us in the SPL, and don't forget they've had their 'moments' this season aswell (eg - 7v1 at Ibrox against 10 men).

Well amc's

I meant my post to mean that we should adapt some of the DU strength into their mix of our (Hibbees) ethos of Flair football actually!! :thumbsup:

meant to be positive for the Hibs!!!! :cool2:

[Tyler Durden]

I dont think so, we have some better, maybe 2 or 3, but we dont have a better team than Dundee Urd.

I would agree they have a more balanced, settled squad but in terms of the first XI, I think we have better players. Gomis, in particular is class though.

[The Harp Awakes]

Watching United v the Huns tonight, its plain what attributes they have that Hibs patently do not - physical presence and fight. Every one of their players is competing for the ball and winning their one to one battles all over the pitch. None of them are bothered about getting kicked or end up on their erkies in order to compete. They are putting a shift in and - even if it doesn't come off - just keep on going. Impressive effort.

Compare that to this current bunch of Hibs weak-minded, lazy midgets and IMHO we don't have a hope of getting 3rd place. DUFC are much better kitted out for Europe and the run in.

Which all points to a cert away win for United at Easter Road next Wednesday. Not so sure about that.

[allmodcons]

Aye Craig Brown is suddenly up there with Capello and Hearts have loads of promising youngsters.
By the same token, the most frustrating aspect of our recent malaise is that IMO we do have better players than our non OF rivals. So why can they not produce?

I don't really buy the not playing for the jersey thing.

3 crucial factors missing at Dingwall last night -confidence, width and pace.

We looked good after we went 1 up, started passing and moving, but couldn't believe how the confidence disappeared when RC equalised.

No outballs in wide areas for either of the full backs and nobody to carry ball quickly from back to front. Deeks must be the slowest wide player in the country and for me young Spoony is really struggling at the moment and needs to be rested.

[Alfred E Newman]

I dont think so, we have some better, maybe 2 or 3, but we dont have a better team than Dundee Urd.

We have some better footballers but not competitors. United are grafters and well managed by Houston who has them playing to their strengths. Its no use having all these so called "flair players" playing the "Hibs way" if it makes us a laughing stock. I like to watch attractive football but the "Hibs Way" has won us precious little over the past 60 years and the sooner we realise this the better.

[Cocaine&Caviar]

What do we reckon a Utd/Hibs team would be?

__________Smith

___Bamba___Webster___Wilkie

Miller___Gomis___Bauben___Conway

_______Stokes___Daly

?

[Spike Mandela]

Bet you Harry Potter is spewing that he left them for Scotland:faf::faf:

[allmodcons]

Well amc's

I meant my post to mean that we should adapt some of the DU strength into their mix of our (Hibbees) ethos of Flair football actually!! :thumbsup:

meant to be positive for the Hibs!!!! :cool2:

No problem with your post HR. It was the OP by ER4ever I was having a go at!

[The Harp Awakes]

We have some better footballers but not competitors. United are grafters and well managed by Houston who has them playing to their strengths. Its no use having all these so called "flair players" playing the "Hibs way" if it makes us a laughing stock. I like to watch attractive football but the "Hibs Way" has won us precious little over the past 60 years and the sooner we realise this the better.

Nail on the head and all that. I fear Yogi is another idealist like Mowbray who will substitute winning things for playing attacking football. For me John Collins had the correct philosophy in that he believed in both and brought us a trophy in the short time he Managed the Club.

I also think it is a bit rich Yogi slagging off the players about being soft and lacking fight. He signed many of the players in the current squad and he is responsible for motivating them.

[allmodcons]

I dont think so, we have some better, maybe 2 or 3, but we dont have a better team than Dundee Urd.

If, as they say, the league table doesn't lie then you are correct, however, a difference of 2 points tells me there's not much between the 2 sides.

[Long suffering]

True, but their defence is slow if WE played the right players in the right positions we have the pace to get in behind them.

Why not play bamba holding role, Murray and miller centre mid? Two ball winners and a passer. Zemmana if fit one wing and Galbraith on other. Stokes up front so zemmana / Galbraith can create for him. Defence - McCormack , hanlon, hogg and Stevenson.

agree with you but we dont have enough good defenders to play with two in midfiled, play bamba stick murray at LB. that defence is incredibly poor.

[blackpoolhibs]

If, as they say, the league table doesn't lie then you are correct, however, a difference of 2 points tells me there's not much between the 2 sides.

I don't think there is that much between the 2 sides, although we are suffering with lack of form at the moment, our better players especially. Couple that with Zemamma's injury, that's why i say they have a better all round team, certainly a better squad than us.

Saying all that, we can still beat them to 3rd place, while that's still possible, we have to go for it.

[King Paddy]

Great post mate, i was just thinking the same myself watching the arabsv gers. Conway is everything Deeks is not. And Goodwillie and Daly work so much harder than Nish/Stokes. It's not about talent it's about work ethic.

[weonlywon6-2]

Aye Craig Brown is suddenly up there with Capello and Hearts have loads of promising youngsters.
By the same token, the most frustrating aspect of our recent malaise is that IMO we do have better players than our non OF rivals. So why can they not produce?

:top marks

[The Voice Of Reason]

Aye Craig Brown is suddenly up there with Capello and Hearts have loads of promising youngsters.
By the same token, the most frustrating aspect of our recent malaise is that IMO we do have better players than our non OF rivals. So why can they not produce?

Because :-

1. The players are not as good as we (or they themselves) think they are.
2. They don't work hard enough
3. They are not fit enough (despite our luxurious state of the art training centre)
4. They are not professional enough (bevvy culture)
5. We have no pace in the team
6. We do not have enough physical presence in the team
7. The E.R pitch is dreadful (to be fair to the club they do recognise this but won't do anything about it until the East Stand is finished)
8. Our tactics have been suspect, overpowered/numbered in midfield
9. We have too many "squad" players who are not good enough for the 1st team
10. We are currently not carrying the luck that we were blessed with earlier in the season
11. Some of our players look tired (Miller and wotherspoon spring to mind).
12. Injuries to Zemmama and McBride have hampered us
13. We don't seem to link up very well up front. In general, too many individuals, not enough teamwork

I think/hope/pray that Yogi will sort it for next season though. :agree:

[PeterboroHibee]

Utd's midfield is generally Swanson, Gomis, Buaben and Conway. Hardly the land of the giants but let's continue to blame us having a small midfield for all our problems. Didn't seem an issue pre Xmas.

They still have big players in other areas of the team though - likes of Kenneth, Kovacevic, Wilkie, Dods at the back are mostly well over 6ft, and up front they have Daly, Shala, Casalinuvo, Sandaza etc.

We really only have Bamba and Nish, and a midfield with no fight. People can say we dont need more presence in our team but its glaringly obvious that we do.

[Tyler Durden]

I agree that Utd have more 6ft+ players, although out of those you've listed generally only 4 or 5 would play. Not that different from us having Murray, Hanlon, Bamba and Nish.

What I am saying is that the success they've had is not based on having a team with 5/6 tall players. They have a good balance and fighting spirit that they've managed to build over 2/3 seasons.

Our "midfield with no fight" has nothing to do with how tall the players are, despite what some on here would have you believe.

[PeterboroHibee]

I agree that Utd have more 6ft+ players, although out of those you've listed generally only 4 or 5 would play. Not that different from us having Murray, Hanlon, Bamba and Nish.

What I am saying is that the success they've had is not based on having a team with 5/6 tall players. They have a good balance and fighting spirit that they've managed to build over 2/3 seasons.

Our "midfield with no fight" has nothing to do with how tall the players are, despite what some on here would have you believe.

I like Hanlon, but pretty sure he isnt even 6ft. Murrays only 6ft as well. And out of those 4 players, only Bamba and Murray it seems are really likely to start every game. We dont have the right balance, especially against teams who do go for the big guy approach.

I never said that, but are we ever going to see big guys brought in? And of course the midfield doesnt have to be big to have fight, thats another problem entirely.

[Septimus]

DU were continually getting crosses into the box from wide positions last night. We now seem incapable of that.

The main differences between the teams is, apart from the above, good old fashioned work ethic which seems to be in short supply at ER these days.

They have Swanson. We have swanning around.

[Stevie Reid]

How long have they had to put that team together?

Exactly - it's very much worth remembering that the current Dundee Utd team has been built up over 3 years by Craig Levein (noteworthy also that in one of his early matches Yogi's Falkirk papped them 5-1 up at Tannadice), and after a ropey Xmas period is enjoying the benefits of continuity of coaching staff, as opposed to a completely new face coming in.

The last 2 seasons Utd have thrown away 4th place (and, last season, a place in Europe) due to results in the post split fixtures, so this team is not immune to blowing a promising position and achieving nothing, like we are threatening to do at the moment.

Guaranteed that despite the fact they were moving in the right direction from when Levein took over, there would've been plenty of Arabs who were raging at losing 4th spot to Aberdeen in the last 2 seasons. Things are awful for us just now but we are 2 points behind them at the moment and (however unlikely it looks right now) could be above them in 3rd come Saturday night.

[resident_Arab]

You say that the United team has been put together for 3 years, fair enough, maybe true with regards a few players who have been here for 2 or so years, but what you are forgetting is the players we have lost in that time, guys like Robson,Hunt,Kalvenes,DeVries,Szamo,Zaluska(giruy), Flood,Weaver etc

What has been done though is we have gradually built a strong squad, some on here will disagree but imo the strongest outside the Old Firm, we are 3rd and in the Semi (as things stand) having had horrendus injury problems the whole season, never ever fielding our strongest side to date.

Last night alone not in the squad were
Sandaza - been out all season, 2 recent sub apps on comeback trail, best striker
Casalinuovo - injured recently, hopefully be back in a couple weeks
Wilkie - club captain, injured most of season, played 2 games early on, never had the chance to pair with Webster
Scott Robertson - injury plagued for over a year now, made a few brief apps early in the season, would be keeping Buaben or Gomis out the team at times if fit, had gained a cap before injury problems and in great form
Dixon - had wee injuries all season keeping him out of games here and there but is a fast healer, should be back in a game or 2, our only real left back and a key part of our team
Cadamarteri - strong and explosive forward, injured and not played since Jan 2nd

All guys who imo would walk into nearly all other non old firm sides.

Last night we ended up with just Kenneth from our usual back 4 playing, with a youngster(just back from loan at East Fife) at RB, a back up RB at LB(Dillon) and a past his best Dods.

Also for some reason D.Robertson started ahead of Swanson(usually a certain starter) & Myrie-Williams, not complaining now though :wink:

Then you have the rest of the guys who were on the park.

Anyway my point is i dont think any other non OF side that i can see this season could have coped with losing all these players, some all season and remained as consistent as we have other than the few games when Levein left, again some will disagree but imo we'd be clear in 3rd had we had the fortune of having most of these available (although its not certain) and but for these problems which we have coped with brilliantly we would be having the season we have been threatening to have for the last 3 years, as it is we are still doing very well, just hope it continues till May!

[blackpoolhibs]

You say that the United team has been put together for 3 years, fair enough, maybe true with regards a few players who have been here for 2 or so years, but what you are forgetting is the players we have lost in that time, guys like Robson,Hunt,Kalvenes,DeVries,Szamo,Zaluska(giruy), Flood,Weaver etc

What has been done though is we have gradually built a strong squad, some on here will disagree but imo the strongest outside the Old Firm, we are 3rd and in the Semi (as things stand) having had horrendus injury problems the whole season, never ever fielding our strongest side to date.

Last night alone not in the squad were
Sandaza - been out all season, 2 recent sub apps on comeback trail, best striker
Casalinuovo - injured recently, hopefully be back in a couple weeks
Wilkie - club captain, injured most of season, played 2 games early on, never had the chance to pair with Webster
Scott Robertson - injury plagued for over a year now, made a few brief apps early in the season, would be keeping Buaben or Gomis out the team at times if fit, had gained a cap before injury problems and in great form
Dixon - had wee injuries all season keeping him out of games here and there but is a fast healer, should be back in a game or 2, our only real left back and a key part of our team
Cadamarteri - strong and explosive forward, injured and not played since Jan 2nd

All guys who imo would walk into nearly all other non old firm sides.

Last night we ended up with just Kenneth from our usual back 4 playing, with a youngster(just back from loan at East Fife) at RB, a back up RB at LB(Dillon) and a past his best Dods.

Also for some reason D.Robertson started ahead of Swanson(usually a certain starter) & Myrie-Williams, not complaining now though :wink:

Then you have the rest of the guys who were on the park.

Anyway my point is i dont think any other non OF side that i can see this season could have coped with losing all these players, some all season and remained as consistent as we have other than the few games when Levein left, again some will disagree but imo we'd be clear in 3rd had we had the fortune of having most of these available (although its not certain) and but for these problems which we have coped with brilliantly we would be having the season we have been threatening to have for the last 3 years, as it is we are still doing very well, just hope it continues till May!

All of which confirms imho my opinion, United have a better squad than us, and have spent more than us.

[Hibbyradge]

I notice no-one has mentioned Peter Houston in the "A New Manager - who could do a better job than Yogi" thread.

United look like cruising to third place and could well go all the way in the Cup.

What's their trick and why can't we model it?

[GC]

United can grind out results while we throw them away, Hibs have never been able to strike the balance between cuting teams open and running riot when possible and grinding out results playing ugly when not.

[Steve-O]

He's copying whatever Levein did...so what's HIS trick?

[Danderhall Hibs]

I notice no-one has mentioned Peter Houston in the "A New Manager - who could do a better job than Yogi" thread.

United look like cruising to third place and could well go all the way in the Cup.

What's their trick and why can't we model it?

Wasn't their trick to stand by Levein for 3 years or so? Even when he had them challenging for 3rd but ultimately finishing 5th they didn't panic and looked to the long-term.

[Andy74]

I notice no-one has mentioned Peter Houston in the "A New Manager - who could do a better job than Yogi" thread.

United look like cruising to third place and could well go all the way in the Cup.

What's their trick and why can't we model it?

The 'trick' is building a team over at least 3 years. Levein said as much.

And we're only two behind them are we not with them still to play again at home coming up?

[marinello59]

The 'trick' is building a team over at least 3 years. Levein said as much.
And we're only two behind them are we not with them still to play again at home coming up?

Exactly.

[EskbankHibby]

Strong and organised at the back, competitive in midfield and a front line with pace, skill and a physical presence.

Watching them in both ties against the huns thinking it's how i would like Hibs to be playing at the moment.

[resident_Arab]

All of which confirms imho my opinion, United have a better squad than us, and have spent more than us.

Our wagebill was 2.6m for 2007, 3.3m for 2008 and 3.6m for 2009

Hibs was 4.1m in 2007, 4.6m in 2008 and 4.7m for 2009

Aberdeen was 5.2m in 2007, 5.9m in 2008 and 5.8m for 2009

Hearts was 12.5m in 2007 and 11.3m for 2008, couldnt see 2009.

http://www.football-finances.org.uk/spl/

[Craig_in_Prague]

It's not just spending 3 years building a team is it.

Levein from the off had them playing like they are now, all that happens over time is improving things slightly, or replacing players but in the main keeping the team going in the same direction.

They always look organised, hard working, committment and have the desire.

They have the right balance to being hard to beat + can play football.

Considering Hughes was a defender himself, I am surprised he hasn't had us hard to beat and battling.

Can't rely on his 'mavericks' anymore, can he.

I don't buy into UTD took 3 years to play this way.

[Expecting Rain]

Dundee United have probably spent quite a bit of money on their team, if not on transfer fees then on wages, they have made some shrewed aquisitions in buying and in the loan deal that secured Andy Webster, they understand that you need different attributes to succeed in the SPL,especially as the seasons change, the grounds cut up and injuries and suspensions kick in, they have a good balance betwwen technique and physicality and are ahead of Hibs i think because their manager at the time had a head start over Hughes, they haven`t panicked over a managerial appointment even after losing 1-7 to Rangers and so far they have been rewarded with a place in the semi finals and a real chance of finishing 3rd in the league, i personally believe they are the best outside the Old Firm at the moment, in saying that there hasn`t been a great deal in it when we have played them this season, if Hibs finish above them then that would be a creditable achievement and testimony to the managerial skills at Easter Road, should be interesting.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I don't buy into UTD took 3 years to play this way.

They've not been 3rd or won anything in the last 3 years have they? They've built it gradually. We have a lot of fans who want it now - no time to wait.

[Steve-O]

It's not just spending 3 years building a team is it.

Levein from the off had them playing like they are now, all that happens over time is improving things slightly, or replacing players but in the main keeping the team going in the same direction.

They always look organised, hard working, committment and have the desire.

They have the right balance to being hard to beat + can play football.

Considering Hughes was a defender himself, I am surprised he hasn't had us hard to beat and battling.

Can't rely on his 'mavericks' anymore, can he.

I don't buy into UTD took 3 years to play this way.

+1 :agree:

[Craig_in_Prague]

They've not been 3rd or won anything in the last 3 years have they? They've built it gradually. We have a lot of fans who want it now - no time to wait.

I'm not saying they are something to be jealous of,
simply they're style, is getting basics right (pretty strong at the back, organized midfield with shape and work ethic, then any strike force would go well in that set-up),
I can't see why Hibs can't get some basics right.....Because if we did....We'd be the team to beat.....
We have better facilities, more fans, more money..... I'm not expecting us to win cups, but certainly minimum of 4th in the league each year, shouldn't be out of our reach looking at everything in place at the club!

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

He's copying whatever Levein did...so what's HIS trick?


Levein's trick is to play 4-4-2 and try and press your opponents as far up the pitch as possible. Also add in a requiremnent for your players to work as hard, if not harder, when they don't have the ball and you get a team that starts off being hard to beat, and that gets results and then that gets confidence. Not that it is exactly rocket surgery, but I get the feeling that when Levein's teams cross the touchline, each man knows exactly what is required of him as part of a team plan. The tactic of just go out and play and express yourself, can only be applied to naturally gifted players like the top class South Americans or the technically gifted total football sides like Holland on the seventies.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I'm not saying they are something to be jealous of,
simply they're style, is getting basics right (pretty strong at the back, organized midfield with shape and work ethic, then any strike force would go well in that set-up),
I can't see why Hibs can't get some basics right.....Because if we did....We'd be the team to beat.....
We have better facilities, more fans, more money..... I'm not expecting us to win cups, but certainly minimum of 4th in the league each year, shouldn't be out of our reach looking at everything in place at the club!

My point is that it's taken them 3 years to get their style sorted - they were challenging for 3rd in Levein's first couple of seasons but blew it. Much like we're in the process of doing.

[Craig_in_Prague]

My point is that it's taken them 3 years to get their style sorted - they were challenging for 3rd in Levein's first couple of seasons but blew it. Much like we're in the process of doing.

I suppose my point is, if we had some of the basics right (which didn't take 3 years to achieve), we wouldn't blow it.
We have better resources, so with better basics and organisation, we'd still be sitting 3rd, rather than the season becoming a headache.

I finally read recently that Hughes mentioned we're still a soft touch.
He didn't do much about that in the transfer windows did he.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I suppose my point is, if we had some of the basics right (which didn't take 3 years to achieve), we wouldn't blow it.
We have better resources, so with better basics and organisation, we'd still be sitting 3rd, rather than the season becoming a headache.

I finally read recently that Hughes mentioned we're still a soft touch.
He didn't do much about that in the transfer windows did he.

It took levein longer than a few months to get the basics right - they blew 3rd the last few seasons and might do it again this year. Maybe it's not an instant thing to do?

Maybe there was noone available to make us harder? Who would you have signed?

[Cocaine&Caviar]

You also have to applaud their transfer policy, they have found some real gems for some very little fees:

- Dušan Perniš, on a free looks to be a really good player
- Sean Dillon, from Shelbourne
- Craig Conway, free from Ayr Utd
- Daly, from Hartlepool
- Sandaza, from Valencia reserves
- Swanson, from Berwick
- Prince Buben, on a free from Ajax
- Gomis, from Cowdenbeath
- Casalinuovo, from Platense

Although they have taken a few players from their close neighbours, they have certainly found a good deal of players from the lower leagues, apart from Bamba, who have we got?

[Arch Stanton]

I remember Levein saying how difficult it was getting the shape of the squad back after losing Robson and Flood - now I just don't recall Hughes ever saying anything that suggested there was any long term planning going on.

I also remember Levein saying that Scotland's poor first half performance was probably his fault as he had put so much emphasis on defending. Now, I just don't recall Hughes ever admitting the possibility that something was his fault - a prerequisite if you are going to correct your mistakes surely.

Now, that isn't to say he won't right the ship and start getting decent performances again but you'd reckon it would be more by luck than judgement.

Next time I hope they get in a a manger with a capacity for strategic thinking and not just another ex-player who is Hibs through and through.

[Caversham Green]

My point is that it's taken them 3 years to get their style sorted - they were challenging for 3rd in Levein's first couple of seasons but blew it. Much like we're in the process of doing.

:agree: United were ninth in Levein's first season, fifth and level on points with us in the second and fifth but streets ahead of us in the third.

How would we have reacted to finishing ninth in Yogi's first season?

[PC Stamp]

If we were forced to watch the style of football United play every week we'd likely be giving it the old "That's not the Hibs way" line. It's this Hibs thing about having to do it in style. I've said before that I couldn't give a rats erky if we won every game 1-0 like George Graham's Arsenal. If we did we'd win the treble.

So what's ultimately more important? Winning or style .... bearing in mind that to get to the winning in style method that we'd all love to see might take the current manager, just as it would have taken previous ones a wee bit more than a season what with contracts and transfer windows etc.

I'm just curious because we were getting results up to around a month and a half or so ago yet many were on here lamenting the style of play etc every week. Yet now we are holding up a side who work hard, defend solidly, hit on the break and rarely thrill anyone but can close games out as an example of what we should be doing?

[PC Stamp]

:agree: United were ninth in Levein's first season, fifth and level on points with us in the second and fifth but streets ahead of us in the third.

How would we have reacted to finishing ninth in Yogi's first season?

With many United fans calling for his head on a platter!

[Craig_in_Prague]

If we were forced to watch the style of football United play every week we'd likely be giving it the old "That's not the Hibs way" line. It's this Hibs thing about having to do it in style. I've said before that I couldn't give a rats erky if we won every game 1-0 like George Graham's Arsenal. If we did we'd win the treble.

So what's ultimately more important? Winning or style .... bearing in mind that to get to the winning in style method that we'd all love to see might take the current manager, just as it would have taken previous ones a wee bit more than a season what with contracts and transfer windows etc.

I'm just curious because we were getting results up to around a month and a half or so ago yet many were on here lamenting the style of play etc every week. Yet now we are holding up a side who work hard, defend solidly, hit on the break and rarely thrill anyone but can close games out as an example of what we should be doing?

It's not an example of what we should do all the time, but simply working hard, being organized and having desire - Can take you quite far!
Hibs can be successful, by playing football which is easier on the eye, as well as be tough when needed.

Look at Man UTD, Chelsea, Barca, etc.

You need a balance, if we want to progress, we need to be wiser and not lose games through poor formations & not working hard enough.

UTD are in our league and are a good example of what working hard and being organised means.

I agree it's not what I want to watch from August to May each year.... But with some of that work ethic, desire, organisation and committment, on top of our resources - We can progress and be also be succesful.

[IWasThere2016]

It's not just spending 3 years building a team is it.

Levein from the off had them playing like they are now, all that happens over time is improving things slightly, or replacing players but in the main keeping the team going in the same direction.

They always look organised, hard working, committment and have the desire.

They have the right balance to being hard to beat + can play football.

Considering Hughes was a defender himself, I am surprised he hasn't had us hard to beat and battling.

Can't rely on his 'mavericks' anymore, can he.

I don't buy into UTD took 3 years to play this way.

Spot on - and they sold some of their better players in this time also.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Spot on - and they sold some of their better players in this time also.

What time? The 3 years he was given to build a team that can challenge for 3rd? They're not even walking away with 3rd but we're talking as if they're the template we use (although we should implement it in a 1/3 of the time it's taken them).

[Hiber-nation]

I don't think they play that ugly. They have big huge muckle defenders, midfielders that can keep the ball, the odd winger than can actually cross a ball and the occasional striker who's good in the air.

Hopefully after 2 years of buliding, Yogi's Hibs will be miles ahead of them.

[Part/Time Supporter]

I notice no-one has mentioned Peter Houston in the "A New Manager - who could do a better job than Yogi" thread.

United look like cruising to third place and could well go all the way in the Cup.

What's their trick and why can't we model it?

He's running with the team that Levein had put in place over three years.

We'll find out if Houston is a good manager next season when he has to make one or two changes (eg Webster is going back to the Huns).

[PC Stamp]

It's not an example of what we should do all the time, but simply working hard, being organized and having desire - Can take you quite far!
Hibs can be successful, by playing football which is easier on the eye, as well as be tough when needed.

Look at Man UTD, Chelsea, Barca, etc.

You need a balance, if we want to progress, we need to be wiser and not lose games through poor formations & not working hard enough.

UTD are in our league and are a good example of what working hard and being organised means.

I agree it's not what I want to watch from August to May each year.... But with some of that work ethic, desire, organisation and committment, on top of our resources - We can progress and be also be succesful.

You're missing my point. What Utd are doing just now is what we WERE doing until around a month and a half or so yet many weren't happy with it.
We worked hard, we defended solidly so much so we had the best defensive record in the UK. We hit teams on the break knowing we could score goals and win games as we weren't conceding. We moaned. You see it now?

Point is, would we all go back now to what we had a little while ago where we were getting results or was that not good enough either?

You want a balance,very don't we all however I already said that's hard to achieve in one season. How do you know that's NOT what we are working towards?

[Craig_in_Prague]

You're missing my point. What Utd are doing just now is what we WERE doing until around a month and a half or so yet many weren't happy with it.
We worked hard, we defended solidly so much so we had the best defensive recod in the UK. We hit teams on the break knowing we could score goals and win games as we weren't conceding. We moaned. You see it now?

Point is, would we all go back now to what we had a little while ago where we were getting results or was that not good enough either?

You want a balance ... I already said that's hard to achieve in one season ... or did you miss that? How do you know that's NOT what we are working towards?

Who was moaning 2 months or so ago, or saying it was not good enough?

We did have a very good defensive record for a while, we did work very hard in some games, but as teams got us sussed out, coupled with worse pitches, we really have struggled since December onwards.

It's not just about UTD's work ethic, but also their organisation, as someone said earlier, when they go onto the pitch they are well drilled so know what each others job is. They also play a heck of a lot more football than people give them credit for.

I am sure Hughes is working towards given us a good balance, but he hasn't changed much in the last few months and isn't showing he's learning.

[PC Stamp]

Who was moaning 2 months or so ago, or saying it was not good enough?

We did have a very good defensive record for a while, we did work very hard in some games, but as teams got us sussed out, coupled with worse pitches, we really have struggled since December onwards.

It's not just about UTD's work ethic, but also their organisation, as someone said earlier, when they go onto the pitch they are well drilled so know what each others job is. They also play a heck of a lot more football than people give them credit for.

I am sure Hughes is working towards given us a good balance, but he hasn't changed much in the last few months and isn't showing he's learning.

Who was moaning? How many posts on here were commenting after games about us being lucky? That better teams would have punished us. That the performance was dire. That the football is horrible to watch etc etc .... when were were getting results through mainly hard work, defending well, being organised, hitting on the break etc albeit without silky performances.

We had what United now have earlier in the season and we mostly weren't happy with it because it's not the Hibs way. Now that we don't have it we want it back!

[blackpoolhibs]

Who was moaning? How many posts on here were commenting after games about us being lucky? That better teams would have punished us. That the performance was dire. That the football is horrible to watch etc etc .... when were were getting results through mainly hard work, defending well, being organised, hitting on the break etc albeit without silky performances.

We had what United now have earlier in the season and we mostly weren't happy with it because it's not the Hibs way. Now that we don't have it we want it back!

Spot on. As much as some don't want to hear it, we are progressing, this time last season we were fighting to get into the top 6. Yes the football not great, but if we qualify for Europe, that's a successful season. Then to keep progressing, we have to do it again, and again, and the football has to get better too, but one step at a time.

[Hibby 2005]

Consistency is what's missing.
United have had it over a longer period, we're trying to achieve it.
It also looks like they have players playing in their correct positions who are comfortable on the ball.
We don't.

[IWasThere2016]

What time? The 3 years he was given to build a team that can challenge for 3rd? They're not even walking away with 3rd but we're talking as if they're the template we use (although we should implement it in a 1/3 of the time it's taken them).

I think you do them a dis-service since 2007-08 they've lost some decent players - off the top of my head - Szamotulski, Zaluska, Kalvenas, Flood, Robson, Hunt. They've lost Levein since, and have also had some serious long-term injuries to contend with this season - Daly, Wilkie, Cadarmateri, S Robertson

[blackpoolhibs]

I think you do them a dis-service since 2007-08 they've lost some decent players - off the top of my head - Szamotulski, Zaluska, Kalvenas, Flood, Robson, Hunt. They've lost Levein since, and have also had some serious long-term injuries to contend with this season - Daly, Wilkie, Cadarmateri, S Robertson

Jones fletcher brown boozy whittaker murphy sproule stewart.

[Hibs90]

Two players,

Gomis and Buaben.

[Stevie Reid]

Motherwell have also lost some very handy players in the last couple of seasons.

[500miles]

Managerial consistancy with a good manager. Houston's appointment has maintained some consistancy.

[PC Stamp]

Motherwell have also lost some very handy players in the last couple of seasons.

Yes and have also added others on loan who may well be elsewhere next season and could just as easily be back scrapping for a top 6 spot at best.

[Bishop Hibee]

:agree: United were ninth in Levein's first season, fifth and level on points with us in the second and fifth but streets ahead of us in the third.

How would we have reacted to finishing ninth in Yogi's first season?

He would have got the sack. Some on here are hinting at that now :bitchy:

All Hibees are hurting after the cup exit and although the goodwill towards Yogi has run out and reality set in, to my mind he needs another close season and until Christmas at least.

[shamo9]

I suppose my point is, if we had some of the basics right (which didn't take 3 years to achieve), we wouldn't blow it.
We have better resources, so with better basics and organisation, we'd still be sitting 3rd, rather than the season becoming a headache.

I finally read recently that Hughes mentioned we're still a soft touch.
He didn't do much about that in the transfer windows did he.

And herein lies the problem. You expect him to solve Hibs biggest ailment - which we've had more or less consistently for a couple of decades except for McLeish in patches - in the course of one and a half transfer windows (I don't really value the January window as up to much)?

He couldn't really correct it majorly in the summer due to not having been around around the players for long, hence why he was willing to simply 'ask them questions' this season. Now he knows the answers. He has to change both some of the personal and the mentality of the whole football club right down to the youth set up.

I'd thought being a Hibs' fan for any great period of time would teach someone patience. What's a season just challenging for third if, in the long term, Hughes' aims come to fruition?

[PC Stamp]

And herein lies the problem. You expect him to solve Hibs biggest ailment - which we've had more or less consistently for a couple of decades except for McLeish in patches - in the course of one and a half transfer windows (I don't really value the January window as up to much)?

He couldn't really correct it majorly in the summer due to not having been around around the players for long, hence why he was willing to simply 'ask them questions' this season. Now he knows the answers. He has to change both some of the personal and the mentality of the whole football club right down to the youth set up.

I'd thought being a Hibs' fan for any great period of time would teach someone patience. What's a season just challenging for third if, in the long term, Hughes' aims come to fruition?

Shamo is spot on here. Hughes mentioned on a good number of occasions that there were several doors closed in our faces in the January window because teams don't want to let their best players go mid season without very good recompense. That's the way the present transfer system works. I don't think for one second he doesn't know what areas need strengthened and I don't think either that he did absolutely nothing about it. Not getting the players in that he wanted doesn't mean he did nothing. If what you want isn't immediately available then why go for a lesser replacement who will cost you good money that is already tight and possibly then lead to you not being able to go back for your first choice when they become available. That's why rebuilding on a tight budget can't realistically be completed in a couple of transfer windows.

[Craig_in_Prague]

And herein lies the problem. You expect him to solve Hibs biggest ailment - which we've had more or less consistently for a couple of decades except for McLeish in patches - in the course of one and a half transfer windows (I don't really value the January window as up to much)?

He couldn't really correct it majorly in the summer due to not having been around around the players for long, hence why he was willing to simply 'ask them questions' this season. Now he knows the answers. He has to change both some of the personal and the mentality of the whole football club right down to the youth set up.

I'd thought being a Hibs' fan for any great period of time would teach someone patience. What's a season just challenging for third if, in the long term, Hughes' aims come to fruition?

He signed Cregg, Miller, McBride, Galbraith, Gow and plays Deek LM.

Of course he knew Hibs were a soft touch, he didn't even need to be around the players long, he knew it before he took the job and said it in his initial interview. He also played against us the last 4-5 years.

He just didn't sign players to see us through the 'usual' Hibs bad period, which tends to be anytime in Dec, through to sometime in March.....
I thought he would have at least been smart enough to change a formation that wasn't working.

I am anyway not trying to bash Hughes, I am not saying he hasn't got the right vision, nor made progress, nor that he doesn't deserve more time etc.......

I can see the bigger picture and things are still looking decent.

[BEEJ]

All of which confirms imho my opinion, United have a better squad than us, and have spent more than us.
What's that opinion based on?

As far as I recall our annual salary bill is higher than Dundee United's.

[noseyhibby]

Well amc's

I meant my post to mean that we should adapt some of the DU strength into their mix of our (Hibbees) ethos of Flair football actually!! :thumbsup:

meant to be positive for the Hibs!!!! :cool2:

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh. There's that word "FLAIR" again. Please.please no more "FLAIR":bitchy:

[noseyhibby]

They have Swanson. We have swanning around.

I like it:wink:

[IWasThere2016]

What's that opinion based on?

As far as I recall our annual salary bill is higher than Dundee United's.

Yup - not one Arab player earns > £2k p/w

[IWasThere2016]

Jones fletcher brown boozy whittaker murphy sproule stewart.

I think the thread's about the Arabs - and I think why how they are above us in the league, in the semi of the Cup - good chance of final/winning it, playing with a real motivation/passion and playing better football.

I could be wrong though and I'm sure you'll tell me so

[blackpoolhibs]

I think the thread's about the Arabs - and I think why how they are above us in the league, in the semi of the Cup - good chance of final/winning it, playing with a real motivation/passion and playing better football.

I could be wrong though and I'm sure you'll tell me so

Of course you are wrong, it just shows they have built their squad up gradually over the years, to the point they are now, with a decent manager at the helm. And we have sold evrybody that was good, and had collins and mixu bringing in dross. Yet Yogi has had 8 months, and he's only 2 points behind united.:confused:

[IWasThere2016]

Of course you are wrong, it just shows they have built their squad up gradually over the years, to the point they are now, with a decent manager at the helm. And we have sold evrybody that was good, and had collins and mixu bringing in dross. Yet Yogi has had 8 months, and he's only 2 points behind united.:confused:

We pay better.

We've signed better than them recently.


Yogi's also had the £s to bring in more players than the Arabs but has failed to address - in two windows - positions we are weak in two windows IMHO.

And how much of the 'dross' is still at ER and figuring every week?

Wherever we're going I don't see that Yogi's taking the players with him .. And I don't see us coming 3rd or 4th for that.

[matty_f]

We pay better.

We've signed better than them recently.


Yogi's also had the £s to bring in more players than the Arabs but has failed to address - in two windows - positions we are weak in two windows IMHO.

And how much of the 'dross' is still at ER and figuring every week?

Wherever we're going I don't see that Yogi's taking the players with him .. And I don't see us coming 3rd or 4th for that.

How were United in Levein's first season? IIRC he had a shocking start to his time at Utd, with many of the issues that Yogi's facing now.

I am certain that there was fan unrest over Levein, until he got to the point where he had built the team and culture he wanted, and that was when Utd became more consistent, even then they never managed a third place finish.

Yogi wanted to bring players in through the January window but couldn't get the quality he wanted - would you rather he'd bought for the sake of buying?

I know I'd rather he waited and had money available to get an appropriate standard of player in through the summer when clubs are more willing to do business.

I think if folk are going to be hammering Yogi then they need to put things into context. We're doing well for his first season, despite poor performances and results of late, we're still in the hunt for third (just behind this Dundee Utd side), with the manager acknowledging throughout the season that he's still a long way from where he wants the club to be.

[IWasThere2016]

How were United in Levein's first season? IIRC he had a shocking start to his time at Utd, with many of the issues that Yogi's facing now.

I am certain that there was fan unrest over Levein, until he got to the point where he had built the team and culture he wanted, and that was when Utd became more consistent, even then they never managed a third place finish.

Yogi wanted to bring players in through the January window but couldn't get the quality he wanted - would you rather he'd bought for the sake of buying?

I know I'd rather he waited and had money available to get an appropriate standard of player in through the summer when clubs are more willing to do business.

I think if folk are going to be hammering Yogi then they need to put things into context. We're doing well for his first season, despite poor performances and results of late, we're still in the hunt for third (just behind this Dundee Utd side), with the manager acknowledging throughout the season that he's still a long way from where he wants the club to be.

Nae point of quoting if ye answer just one point from four or five :wink: :greengrin