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View Full Version : Mowbray hints that Hearts get it right, mostly



noseyhibby
25-03-2010, 06:07 PM
As damning as it is of Scottish football, Mowbray has summed up pretty well what is required to be effective (result-wise) in the SPL. Note I say effective and not necessarily entertaining.
Mowbray quote:
"Maybe it isn't a league for trying to force the game and be expansive - maybe it is a league for playing defensive, negative football and having quality up front to counter-attack."

This scenario is pretty gloomy but it would account for most of Hearts higher league placings over the years. They occasionally sprinkle their pub football teams with the odd "flair" player, just enough to suggest they are trying to entertain, but generally they simply grind and grapple their way to a positive result. It might make the eyes bleed, but it is, on the whole, effective and, sadly, successful. Levein for example, builds his team from the back, making them practically impenetrable (ie Hearts, Dundee United) It only takes 1 goal to then win a match -and how many of those have we witnessed this season alone from the Gorgie grinders.

Rangers are of course the historical and present masters at setting teams out to suffocate the opposition. For example, note how they ground their way to the UEFA cup final recently, playing a defensive, mind-numbingly boring game. Of course, it takes a certain player to play such a game: they must have physical strength allied with a dogged, never-say-die attitude, and are prepared to do whatever, and I mean whatever (ie;elbow in the face off the ball, stand on a a players boots in the penalty area) all those sneeky wee things on the blind side of the ref.
Teams that build a solid defence usually come out on top of games. Scottish football, unless it changes to summer football, will always result in wars of attrition on mud bath fields on dark, dismal, wet and freezing January afternoons. This environment will only suit those teams set up to battle and slog their way to victory.
Flair football is all very well, but Portobello beach is not Copacabana. Most fans tend to want to see their team win first, and be entertained secondly. Hibs fans, on the whole, are no different to the Gorgie faithful, or any other set of supporters in this respect. No wonder the Jambos scorned our ineffective, so-called Brazilian type football under Mowbray after yet another 4 goal mauling.

I hope Yogi has taken onboard some of Mowbrays comments and is prepared to have a major rethink on what type of player he requires and how he sets our team up from now on. I'm not advocating totally negative football, but when there is no Plan B, then it must be considered.Over to you Mr Hughes.

AgentDaleCooper
25-03-2010, 06:11 PM
As damning as it is of Scottish football, Mowbray has summed up pretty well what is required to be effective (result-wise) in the SPL. Note I say effective and not necessarily entertaining.
Mowbray quote:
"Maybe it isn't a league for trying to force the game and be expansive - maybe it is a league for playing defensive, negative football and having quality up front to counter-attack."

This scenario is pretty gloomy but it would account for most of Hearts higher league placings over the years. They occasionally sprinkle their pub football teams with the odd "flair" player, just enough to suggest they are trying to entertain, but generally they simply grind and grapple their way to a positive result. It might make the eyes bleed, but it is, on the whole, effective and, sadly from a purist point of view, successful. Levein for example, builds his team from the back, making them practically impenetrable (ie Hearts, Dundee United) It only takes 1 goal to then win a match -and how many of those have we witnessed this season alone from the Gorgie grinders.

Rangers are of course the historical and present masters at setting teams out to suffocate the opposition. For example, note how they ground their way to the UEFA cup final recently, playing a defensive, mind-numbingly boring game. Of course, it takes a certain player to play such a game: they must have physical strength allied with a dogged, never-say-die attitude, and are prepared to do whatever, and I mean whatever (ie;elbow in the face off the ball, stand on a a players boots in the penalty area) all those sneeky wee things on the blind side of the ref.
Teams that build a solid defence usually come out on top of games. Scottish football, unless it changes to summer football, will always result in wars of attrition on mud bath fields on dark, dismal, wet and freezing January afternoons. This environment will only suit those teams set up to battle and slog their way to victory.
Flair football is all very well, but Portobello beach is not Copacabana. Most fans tend to want to see their team win first, and be entertained secondly. Hibs fans, on the whole, are no different to the Gorgie faithful, or any other set of supporters in this respect. No wonder the Jambos scorned our ineffective, so-called Brazilian type football under Mowbray after yet another 4 goal mauling.

I hope Yogi has taken onboard some of Mowbrays comments and is prepared to have a major rethink on what type of player he requires and how he sets our team up from now on. I'm not advocating totally negative football, but when there is no Plan B, then it must be considered.Over to you Mr Hughes.

IMO, and it pains me to say it, but hearts get it more right than we do. you just need to look at the two cups they've won in the last 12 years, sadly.

they want to win, first and foremost.

if we learned this attitude and built a team playing flair football on this foundation it think things would change. we have everything we need in place to really challenge the old firm, win cups and hell, even the league - this is the one thing that's lacking.

iwasthere1972
25-03-2010, 06:12 PM
As damning as it is of Scottish football, Mowbray has summed up pretty well what is required to be effective (result-wise) in the SPL. Note I say effective and not necessarily entertaining.
Mowbray quote:
"Maybe it isn't a league for trying to force the game and be expansive - maybe it is a league for playing defensive, negative football and having quality up front to counter-attack."

This scenario is pretty gloomy but it would account for most of Hearts higher league placings over the years. They occasionally sprinkle their pub football teams with the odd "flair" player, just enough to suggest they are trying to entertain, but generally they simply grind and grapple their way to a positive result. It might make the eyes bleed, but it is, on the whole, effective and, sadly from a purist point of view, successful. Levein for example, builds his team from the back, making them practically impenetrable (ie Hearts, Dundee United) It only takes 1 goal to then win a match -and how many of those have we witnessed this season alone from the Gorgie grinders.

Rangers are of course the historical and present masters at setting teams out to suffocate the opposition. For example, note how they ground their way to the UEFA cup final recently, playing a defensive, mind-numbingly boring game. Of course, it takes a certain player to play such a game: they must have physical strength allied with a dogged, never-say-die attitude, and are prepared to do whatever, and I mean whatever (ie;elbow in the face off the ball, stand on a a players boots in the penalty area) all those sneeky wee things on the blind side of the ref.
Teams that build a solid defence usually come out on top of games. Scottish football, unless it changes to summer football, will always result in wars of attrition on mud bath fields on dark, dismal, wet and freezing January afternoons. This environment will only suit those teams set up to battle and slog their way to victory.
Flair football is all very well, but Portobello beach is not Copacabana. Most fans tend to want to see their team win first, and be entertained secondly. Hibs fans, on the whole, are no different to the Gorgie faithful, or any other set of supporters in this respect. No wonder the Jambos scorned our ineffective, so-called Brazilian type football under Mowbray after yet another 4 goal mauling.

I hope Yogi has taken onboard some of Mowbrays comments and is prepared to have a major rethink on what type of player he requires and how he sets our team up from now on. I'm not advocating totally negative football, but when there is no Plan B, then it must be considered.Over to you Mr Hughes.

Got this feeling that TM he is trying to deflect any blame away from himself for the fact the Celtic are pretty gash. :agree:

Gatecrasher
25-03-2010, 06:15 PM
Got this feeling that TM he is trying to deflect any blame away from himself for the fact the Celtic are pretty gash. :agree:

judging by that statement you would think he never spent any time at hibs at all, he knew what the SPL is like, just cause he cant make it work he blames everyone else :rolleyes:

Dan Sarf
25-03-2010, 06:19 PM
As damning as it is of Scottish football, Mowbray has summed up pretty well what is required to be effective (result-wise) in the SPL. Note I say effective and not necessarily entertaining.
Mowbray quote:
"Maybe it isn't a league for trying to force the game and be expansive - maybe it is a league for playing defensive, negative football and having quality up front to counter-attack."

This scenario is pretty gloomy but it would account for most of Hearts higher league placings over the years. They occasionally sprinkle their pub football teams with the odd "flair" player, just enough to suggest they are trying to entertain, but generally they simply grind and grapple their way to a positive result. It might make the eyes bleed, but it is, on the whole, effective and, sadly from a purist point of view, successful. Levein for example, builds his team from the back, making them practically impenetrable (ie Hearts, Dundee United) It only takes 1 goal to then win a match -and how many of those have we witnessed this season alone from the Gorgie grinders.

Rangers are of course the historical and present masters at setting teams out to suffocate the opposition. For example, note how they ground their way to the UEFA cup final recently, playing a defensive, mind-numbingly boring game. Of course, it takes a certain player to play such a game: they must have physical strength allied with a dogged, never-say-die attitude, and are prepared to do whatever, and I mean whatever (ie;elbow in the face off the ball, stand on a a players boots in the penalty area) all those sneeky wee things on the blind side of the ref.
Teams that build a solid defence usually come out on top of games. Scottish football, unless it changes to summer football, will always result in wars of attrition on mud bath fields on dark, dismal, wet and freezing January afternoons. This environment will only suit those teams set up to battle and slog their way to victory.
Flair football is all very well, but Portobello beach is not Copacabana. Most fans tend to want to see their team win first, and be entertained secondly. Hibs fans, on the whole, are no different to the Gorgie faithful, or any other set of supporters in this respect. No wonder the Jambos scorned our ineffective, so-called Brazilian type football under Mowbray after yet another 4 goal mauling.

I hope Yogi has taken onboard some of Mowbrays comments and is prepared to have a major rethink on what type of player he requires and how he sets our team up from now on. I'm not advocating totally negative football, but when there is no Plan B, then it must be considered.Over to you Mr Hughes.


Isn't it a matter of balance? Brilliance and brawn can work side by side - and do in all the great teams. And that's what we want from Hibs. Not hoofball. And no putting on seventeen strikers when you're losing either, thanks.

Malthibby
25-03-2010, 06:20 PM
Grudgingly agree, but it is the footie style which we try to adhere to which makes us different from the Jumbos, god help that we begin aping them.
And you can keep your Copocabama. There's nothing like Porty beach for clearing your mind of the ills of the world. A fifty mile an hour sandblasting will do that every time.
GG

Hibercelona
25-03-2010, 06:24 PM
The difference between Hibs and other clubs in the SPL is that players from other teams actually want to win games.

They could have a dreadful manager and dreadful players. But as long as they want to win more than we do... thats exactly what they'll do.

Hibs have all the talent in the world to be right up there in the table... but sadly, the attitude of the type of players we bring in will always limit our success.

Its the Hibs way. :agree:

noseyhibby
25-03-2010, 06:30 PM
Isn't it a matter of balance? Brilliance and brawn can work side by side - and do in all the great teams. And that's what we want from Hibs. Not hoofball. And no putting on seventeen strikers when you're losing either, thanks.

I agree with you on getting the right balance. Celtic over the years have tended to be the team that finds this balance. Rangers with Gascoigne, laudrup and co also got this balance. But sadly for the rest of us we can't afford this quality. In which case we have to make do with less talented players, who could at least try to make up for their deficiences by giving 100% every game in all weathers and conditions.

down-the-slope
25-03-2010, 06:32 PM
IMO, and it pains me to say it, but hearts get it more right than we do. you just need to look at the two cups they've won in the last 12 years, sadly.

they want to win, first and foremost.

if we learned this attitude and built a team playing flair football on this foundation it think things would change. we have everything we need in place to really challenge the old firm, win cups and hell, even the league - this is the one thing that's lacking.

Sorry don't agree give me the way we won the CIS anytime....entertainment first results second ...I'm a romantic

KerPlunk
25-03-2010, 06:37 PM
judging by that statement you would think he never spent any time at hibs at all, he knew what the SPL is like, just cause he cant make it work he blames everyone else :rolleyes:

:top marks

And the very fact that he knew the SPL inside out, both from his stint as a player at the soapdodgers and as manager of Hibs, makes you wonder why he took the Celtc poisoned chalice in the first place.

Oh, of course......guaranteed Yooro expeditions every season.......:greengrin

The_Todd
25-03-2010, 06:44 PM
Mowbray deflecting his own failures TBH. 6 up front and only 4 midfielders/defenders v St Mirren? That's not expansive or "gallant", that's ****ing suicide against anybody.

He's been found out and has resorted to belittling the Scottish game. He's lucky he's been sacked, I reckon Ross County would have torn him a new one playing like that.

down the slope
25-03-2010, 06:53 PM
Just heard on STV that he joined us when we were eighth and left us the same,
joined WBA in the championship and left them in the same league, i think he is just trying to cover up his weaknesses when he makes statements like todays.

New Corrie
25-03-2010, 07:00 PM
Grudgingly agree, but it is the footie style which we try to adhere to which makes us different from the Jumbos, god help that we begin aping them.And you can keep your Copocabama. There's nothing like Porty beach for clearing your mind of the ills of the world. A fifty mile an hour sandblasting will do that every time.
GG

See, I must have missed something, in the 35 or so years i've been going to watch Hibs i've seen good football in maybe 5 of these years. After the break up of the Tornadoes we had the tailend of Turnbulls era...horrific football, then you get...Ormond, Auld, Stanton and Blackley....could someone please remind me of the Flare football from that period please? Then Lexo, pretty effective but hardly entertaining. Since then apart from a couple of seasons under McLeish and Mogga it's been pretty dire.

The "Hibs way" is a myth

iwasthere1972
25-03-2010, 07:22 PM
:top marks

And the very fact that he knew the SPL inside out, both from his stint as a player at the soapdodgers and as manager of Hibs, makes you wonder why he took the Celtc poisoned chalice in the first place.

Oh, of course......guaranteed Yooro expeditions every season.......:greengrin


You forgot to mention the lure of playing in front of 60,000 fans. Eh haud oan a minute that can't be right. :devil:

vahibbie
25-03-2010, 07:29 PM
As damning as it is of Scottish football, Mowbray has summed up pretty well what is required to be effective (result-wise) in the SPL. Note I say effective and not necessarily entertaining.
Mowbray quote:
"Maybe it isn't a league for trying to force the game and be expansive - maybe it is a league for playing defensive, negative football and having quality up front to counter-attack."

This scenario is pretty gloomy but it would account for most of Hearts higher league placings over the years. They occasionally sprinkle their pub football teams with the odd "flair" player, just enough to suggest they are trying to entertain, but generally they simply grind and grapple their way to a positive result. It might make the eyes bleed, but it is, on the whole, effective and, sadly from a purist point of view, successful. Levein for example, builds his team from the back, making them practically impenetrable (ie Hearts, Dundee United) It only takes 1 goal to then win a match -and how many of those have we witnessed this season alone from the Gorgie grinders.

Rangers are of course the historical and present masters at setting teams out to suffocate the opposition. For example, note how they ground their way to the UEFA cup final recently, playing a defensive, mind-numbingly boring game. Of course, it takes a certain player to play such a game: they must have physical strength allied with a dogged, never-say-die attitude, and are prepared to do whatever, and I mean whatever (ie;elbow in the face off the ball, stand on a a players boots in the penalty area) all those sneeky wee things on the blind side of the ref.
Teams that build a solid defence usually come out on top of games. Scottish football, unless it changes to summer football, will always result in wars of attrition on mud bath fields on dark, dismal, wet and freezing January afternoons. This environment will only suit those teams set up to battle and slog their way to victory.
Flair football is all very well, but Portobello beach is not Copacabana. Most fans tend to want to see their team win first, and be entertained secondly. Hibs fans, on the whole, are no different to the Gorgie faithful, or any other set of supporters in this respect. No wonder the Jambos scorned our ineffective, so-called Brazilian type football under Mowbray after yet another 4 goal mauling.

I hope Yogi has taken onboard some of Mowbrays comments and is prepared to have a major rethink on what type of player he requires and how he sets our team up from now on. I'm not advocating totally negative football, but when there is no Plan B, then it must be considered.Over to you Mr Hughes.

We get caught up in our own "flair myth" too often.
Hearts, have if anything played better football than us in recent Derbies. I'm sure they have also played just as good footbal as us against everyone else.
True, when everything clicks into place we can play some wonderfull stuff, then again so can most teams, including Hearts. Unfortunately bringing it all together once in a blue moon is not good enough and doesn't really entitle us to scorn anyone else.
Rangers progress to the UEFA cup final was as dull as dish water. But who were they playing for, not for us Hibbies, the guardians of the beautifull game.
They were playing to get to the final and I'm sure the HUN masses loved it.
Let's face it, in domestic football they open up enough to usually put a few past us:bitchy:

sh00byd00
25-03-2010, 07:31 PM
Grudgingly agree, but it is the footie style which we try to adhere to which makes us different from the Jumbos, god help that we begin aping them.
And you can keep your Copocabama. There's nothing like Porty beach for clearing your mind of the ills of the world. A fifty mile an hour sandblasting will do that every time.
GG

Porty beach will more than likely make you ill in other ways. :greengrin

You can tell the locals from the visitors. The locals are the ones that don't venture past the promenade wall, the visitors are the ones emerging from the water with tampons, sanny towels and **** over them.

Rory89
25-03-2010, 07:36 PM
Oh for the love of ****ing christ, this rubbish people spout about our style of play bores the tears out of me, I can't even contemplate how stupid it must sound to non Hibees.

The sooner this gets through the better, Hibs do NOT have an exciting, passing brand of football that gives us a moral victory over anti-football mercenaries like Hearts who will play any way for the win, no matter how physical or unattractive. Under Mowbray we often played brilliant stuff and still lost to much poorer teams, but since then we hoof it as much as anyone, ironically I can't remember the last derby where Hibs played more flowing football than Hearts.

It's a ****ing myth and every time we try and take the high ground for another defeat by pointing out our attractive, fast flowing, attack minded hammer throwing it just makes us look more of a joke.

judas
25-03-2010, 07:36 PM
As damning as it is of Scottish football, Mowbray has summed up pretty well what is required to be effective (result-wise) in the SPL. Note I say effective and not necessarily entertaining.
Mowbray quote:
"Maybe it isn't a league for trying to force the game and be expansive - maybe it is a league for playing defensive, negative football and having quality up front to counter-attack."

This scenario is pretty gloomy but it would account for most of Hearts higher league placings over the years. They occasionally sprinkle their pub football teams with the odd "flair" player, just enough to suggest they are trying to entertain, but generally they simply grind and grapple their way to a positive result. It might make the eyes bleed, but it is, on the whole, effective and, sadly from a purist point of view, successful. Levein for example, builds his team from the back, making them practically impenetrable (ie Hearts, Dundee United) It only takes 1 goal to then win a match -and how many of those have we witnessed this season alone from the Gorgie grinders.

Rangers are of course the historical and present masters at setting teams out to suffocate the opposition. For example, note how they ground their way to the UEFA cup final recently, playing a defensive, mind-numbingly boring game. Of course, it takes a certain player to play such a game: they must have physical strength allied with a dogged, never-say-die attitude, and are prepared to do whatever, and I mean whatever (ie;elbow in the face off the ball, stand on a a players boots in the penalty area) all those sneeky wee things on the blind side of the ref.
Teams that build a solid defence usually come out on top of games. Scottish football, unless it changes to summer football, will always result in wars of attrition on mud bath fields on dark, dismal, wet and freezing January afternoons. This environment will only suit those teams set up to battle and slog their way to victory.
Flair football is all very well, but Portobello beach is not Copacabana. Most fans tend to want to see their team win first, and be entertained secondly. Hibs fans, on the whole, are no different to the Gorgie faithful, or any other set of supporters in this respect. No wonder the Jambos scorned our ineffective, so-called Brazilian type football under Mowbray after yet another 4 goal mauling.

I hope Yogi has taken onboard some of Mowbrays comments and is prepared to have a major rethink on what type of player he requires and how he sets our team up from now on. I'm not advocating totally negative football, but when there is no Plan B, then it must be considered.Over to you Mr Hughes.

I have never bought in to the notion that Hibs are synonymous with flair football and that Hearts are not.

What about the decade under Alex Miller or the Blobby years?

What about the fact that Hearts have scored considerably more goals in their history than Hibs?

I remember superb attacking Hearts teams.

Sorry, but as much as I love Hibs, the entire point is a fabrication by dreaming Hibs fans; a myth promoted by the idealistic.

Win, win well and win with flair, but always in that order.

sh00byd00
25-03-2010, 07:40 PM
Oh for the love of ****ing christ, this rubbish people spout about our style of play bores the tears out of me, I can't even contemplate how stupid it must sound to non Hibees.

The sooner this gets through the better, Hibs do NOT have an exciting, passing brand of football that gives us a moral victory over anti-football mercenaries like Hearts who will play any way for the win, no matter how physical or unattractive. Under Mowbray we often played brilliant stuff and still lost to much poorer teams, but since then we hoof it as much as anyone, ironically I can't remember the last derby where Hibs played more flowing football than Hearts.

It's a ****ing myth and every time we try and take the high ground for another defeat by pointing out our attractive, fast flowing, attack minded hammer throwing it just makes us look more of a joke.

:top marks

I agree, but be prepared for a lynching or to be called a yam fud. :greengrin

Rory89
25-03-2010, 07:45 PM
:top marks

I agree, but be prepared for a lynching or to be called a yam fud. :greengrin

Yeah I'm kind of expecting that, if you don't buy the drivel you read here that usually makes you a yam fud. If anybody can actually find fault with anything in my post and back it up and prove me wrong then they can call me whatever they like.

AgentDaleCooper
25-03-2010, 07:56 PM
Sorry don't agree give me the way we won the CIS anytime....entertainment first results second ...I'm a romantic

right...so if we'd won the cup TWICE winning hoof ball, you'd be saying "aah, i'd swap the holy grail for ONE win of the diddy cup if only we played 'the hibs way*' "?



*as has been alluded to in this thread, this is possibly a myth anyway

noseyhibby
25-03-2010, 08:02 PM
Yeah I'm kind of expecting that, if you don't buy the drivel you read here that usually makes you a yam fud. If anybody can actually find fault with anything in my post and back it up and prove me wrong then they can call me whatever they like.

I don't resort to petty name calling and try to address the point made. I actually agree with you about the "myth" surrounding Hibs, but with every myth there tends to be a "truth" behind it, if only in part. Hibs have a history and a reputation, just as Celtic and Rangers do. Celtic are reknowned for playing "pure" positive football and Rangers for having an iron defence and negative football. Hearts have a dour reputation but this doesn't equate to always producing dour teams. I talked in general terms in my original post. Hearts over the years have dug in and beaten Hibs consistently, even when Hibs have played well (ie many games during the 22 sequence). Hibs reputation for playing pure football over the years has to be seen in terms of that it's a philosophy, and does not always equate to the product on the park. It maybe embarrassing on occasion (ie right now). The point is that Hearts tend to beat us more often than not because of their tactical approach to the game (ie dogged defensive, never-say-die attitude). I personally would rather us beat them 1-0 with a stubborn,backs to the wall display, than to see us "crushed" playing expansive, "flair" footie (ie Mowbray)

stubru59
25-03-2010, 08:02 PM
I don't believe for a minute Hibs fans want to see the kind of crap that is played up the other end of the town.

That's not the same as saying we're happy to take crap results.

The_Todd
25-03-2010, 08:04 PM
right...so if we'd won the cup TWICE winning hoof ball, you'd be saying "aah, i'd swap the holy grail for ONE win of the diddy cup if only we played 'the hibs way*' "?



*as has been alluded to in this thread, this is possibly a myth anyway

Sorry to disagree with a fellow Twin Peaks nut, but the Diddy Cup isn't a Diddy Cup to us, or anyone else. The way the Huns celebrated winning it despite the fact they've sewn up the league tells me that nobody thinks of it as "diddy", except Hearts since they have a "special relationship" with the Scottish Cup.

The only difference between the Scottish and CIS cups is the Scottish gives you a shot at Europe, which to be fair for most SPL teams means a wee trip to Llanelli or some obscure Baltic country before being bundled out at the first hurdle anyway. Other than that it's a trophy (one of only 3 available), and it'll do me every time.

sahib
25-03-2010, 08:06 PM
I have never bought in to the notion that Hibs are synonymous with flair football and that Hearts are not.

What about the decade under Alex Miller or the Blobby years?

What about the fact that Hearts have scored considerably more goals in their history than Hibs?

I remember superb attacking Hearts teams.
Sorry, but as much as I love Hibs, the entire point is a fabrication by dreaming Hibs fans; a myth promoted by the idealistic.

Win, win well and win with flair, but always in that order.

You're well named mate! :wink:

noseyhibby
25-03-2010, 08:10 PM
Sorry to disagree with a fellow Twin Peaks nut, but the Diddy Cup isn't a Diddy Cup to us, or anyone else. The way the Huns celebrated winning it despite the fact they've sewn up the league tells me that nobody thinks of it as "diddy", except Hearts since they have a "special relationship" with the Scottish Cup.

The only difference between the Scottish and CIS cups is the Scottish gives you a shot at Europe, which to be fair for most SPL teams means a wee trip to Llanelli or some obscure Baltic country before being bundled out at the first hurdle anyway. Other than that it's a trophy (one of only 3 available), and it'll do me every time.

Good post. I have long argued that there are 3 major trophies up for grabs every season. The CIS (League cup) is one of the 3 major trophies, whatever slant the jambos might want to put on it. Remember, they have to raise their self-esteem by belittling every single thing relating to Hibs. I also agree on the european thing. Scottish results and performances are cringing and down right embarrassing.

Rory89
25-03-2010, 08:14 PM
I don't resort to petty name calling and try to address the point made. I actually agree with you about the "myth" surrounding Hibs, but with every myth there tends to be a "truth" behind it, if only in part. Hibs have a history and a reputation, just as Celtic and Rangers do. Celtic are reknowned for playing "pure" positive football and Rangers for having an iron defence and negative football. Hearts have a dour reputation but this doesn't equate to always producing dour teams. I talked in general terms in my original post. Hearts over the years have dug in and beaten Hibs consistently, even when Hibs have played well (ie many games during the 22 sequence). Hibs reputation for playing pure football over the years has to be seen in terms of that it's a philosophy, and does not always equate to the product on the park. It maybe embarrassing on occasion (ie right now). The point is that Hearts tend to beat us more often than not because of their tactical approach to the game (ie dogged defensive, never-say-die attitude). I personally would rather us beat them 1-0 with a stubborn,backs to the wall display, than to see us "crushed" playing expansive, "flair" footie (ie Mowbray)

I'm fully aware of the reputation Hibs, Hearts, Celtic and Rangers have, the only thing more false than our self made flair wankathon is the "Glasgow Celtic way" of playing the game.

I can only comment on Hibs teams from 2004 onwards as that was when I started going to games, In that time we played brilliant stuff under Mowbray, but it really was style over substance at times as our team would string 20 neat passes together then one hoof up the park from the opposition and our soft defence would capitulate. It's embarrasing in those situations to try and take the moral high-ground, but Mowbray did all the time anyway (and still is by the sound of it). What makes it worse is that since then we've been doing a lot more hoofing than Hearts but we still use that excuse on here, which is what I think you're getting at.

Some .netters need to pay less attention to our press and more attention to league tables. FWIW I think the "flair" thing is more of an internet myth than one widely held by Hibby's, I personally have never met anyone who buys into it.

vahibbie
25-03-2010, 08:20 PM
Sorry don't agree give me the way we won the CIS anytime....entertainment first results second ...I'm a romantic

But would you have taken a dour 1-0 win or a flamboyant 2-3 defeat:devil:

Long suffering
25-03-2010, 08:25 PM
Oh for the love of ****ing christ, this rubbish people spout about our style of play bores the tears out of me, I can't even contemplate how stupid it must sound to non Hibees.

The sooner this gets through the better, Hibs do NOT have an exciting, passing brand of football that gives us a moral victory over anti-football mercenaries like Hearts who will play any way for the win, no matter how physical or unattractive. Under Mowbray we often played brilliant stuff and still lost to much poorer teams, but since then we hoof it as much as anyone, ironically I can't remember the last derby where Hibs played more flowing football than Hearts.

It's a ****ing myth and every time we try and take the high ground for another defeat by pointing out our attractive, fast flowing, attack minded hammer throwing it just makes us look more of a joke.

I agree with you, your write we no longer play good stuff. But no-one is taking the morale high ground or saying that we play the right way. If anythhing, credit is being given to the hearts and rangers

vahibbie
25-03-2010, 08:29 PM
I agree with you, your write we no longer play good stuff. But no-one is taking the morale high ground or saying that we play the right way. If anythhing, credit is being given to the hearts and rangers

Aye, that bit does stick in the back of your throat:jamboak:

Long suffering
25-03-2010, 08:34 PM
As damning as it is of Scottish football, Mowbray has summed up pretty well what is required to be effective (result-wise) in the SPL. Note I say effective and not necessarily entertaining.
Mowbray quote:
"Maybe it isn't a league for trying to force the game and be expansive - maybe it is a league for playing defensive, negative football and having quality up front to counter-attack."

This scenario is pretty gloomy but it would account for most of Hearts higher league placings over the years. They occasionally sprinkle their pub football teams with the odd "flair" player, just enough to suggest they are trying to entertain, but generally they simply grind and grapple their way to a positive result. It might make the eyes bleed, but it is, on the whole, effective and, sadly from a purist point of view, successful. Levein for example, builds his team from the back, making them practically impenetrable (ie Hearts, Dundee United) It only takes 1 goal to then win a match -and how many of those have we witnessed this season alone from the Gorgie grinders.

Rangers are of course the historical and present masters at setting teams out to suffocate the opposition. For example, note how they ground their way to the UEFA cup final recently, playing a defensive, mind-numbingly boring game. Of course, it takes a certain player to play such a game: they must have physical strength allied with a dogged, never-say-die attitude, and are prepared to do whatever, and I mean whatever (ie;elbow in the face off the ball, stand on a a players boots in the penalty area) all those sneeky wee things on the blind side of the ref.
Teams that build a solid defence usually come out on top of games. Scottish football, unless it changes to summer football, will always result in wars of attrition on mud bath fields on dark, dismal, wet and freezing January afternoons. This environment will only suit those teams set up to battle and slog their way to victory.
Flair football is all very well, but Portobello beach is not Copacabana. Most fans tend to want to see their team win first, and be entertained secondly. Hibs fans, on the whole, are no different to the Gorgie faithful, or any other set of supporters in this respect. No wonder the Jambos scorned our ineffective, so-called Brazilian type football under Mowbray after yet another 4 goal mauling.

I hope Yogi has taken onboard some of Mowbrays comments and is prepared to have a major rethink on what type of player he requires and how he sets our team up from now on. I'm not advocating totally negative football, but when there is no Plan B, then it must be considered.Over to you Mr Hughes.

great post btw :top marks

New Corrie
25-03-2010, 08:36 PM
Oh for the love of ****ing christ, this rubbish people spout about our style of play bores the tears out of me, I can't even contemplate how stupid it must sound to non Hibees.

The sooner this gets through the better, Hibs do NOT have an exciting, passing brand of football that gives us a moral victory over anti-football mercenaries like Hearts who will play any way for the win, no matter how physical or unattractive. Under Mowbray we often played brilliant stuff and still lost to much poorer teams, but since then we hoof it as much as anyone, ironically I can't remember the last derby where Hibs played more flowing football than Hearts.

It's a ****ing myth and every time we try and take the high ground for another defeat by pointing out our attractive, fast flowing, attack minded hammer throwing it just makes us look more of a joke.



I could not agree more Rory, complete myth and makes us look rather foolish.

hibsbollah
25-03-2010, 08:38 PM
FWIW I think the "flair" thing is more of an internet myth than one widely held by Hibby's, I personally have never met anyone who buys into it.

Me neither:agree:

its always good to aspire to playing good football, but lets be realistic.

noseyhibby
25-03-2010, 08:40 PM
I'm fully aware of the reputation Hibs, Hearts, Celtic and Rangers have, the only thing more false than our self made flair wankathon is the "Glasgow Celtic way" of playing the game.

I can only comment on Hibs teams from 2004 onwards as that was when I started going to games, In that time we played brilliant stuff under Mowbray, but it really was style over substance at times as our team would string 20 neat passes together then one hoof up the park from the opposition and our soft defence would capitulate. It's embarrasing in those situations to try and take the moral high-ground, but Mowbray did all the time anyway (and still is by the sound of it). What makes it worse is that since then we've been doing a lot more hoofing than Hearts but we still use that excuse on here, which is what I think you're getting at.

Some .netters need to pay less attention to our press and more attention to league tables. FWIW I think the "flair" thing is more of an internet myth than one widely held by Hibby's, I personally have never met anyone who buys into it.

Reputations, like I say, are gained over many seasons and decades. With all due respect, if you have been watching Hibs since 2004 then your perspective is limited. You have been fortunate in seeing both the best (Mowbray/Collins)and worst (Mixu)of being a Hibby. I watched Hibs from the mid 60s and was spoilt with regular european nights and quality on the pitch, especially when Turnbulls Tornadoes came along during the early 70s. There was no talk of myths at that point as the Famous Five were still fresh in the minds of the majority of supporters. The so-called "myth" you deride is a latter day thing and I suspect brought up by more Jambos than Hibbies to pour scorn on Hibs after yet another derby capitulation. Talking of which, I recall hibs dominating Hearts year in, year out during the period aforementioned. This might be hard to believe for younger Hibbies but it's true.

sh00byd00
25-03-2010, 09:01 PM
Reputations, like I say, are gained over many seasons and decades. With all due respect, if you have been watching Hibs since 2004 then your perspective is limited. You have been fortunate in seeing both the best (Mowbray/Collins)and worst (Mixu)of being a Hibby. I watched Hibs from the mid 60s and was spoilt with regular european nights and quality on the pitch, especially when Turnbulls Tornadoes came along during the early 70s. There was no talk of myths at that point as the Famous Five were still fresh in the minds of the majority of supporters. The so-called "myth" you deride is a latter day thing and I suspect brought up by more Jambos than Hibbies to pour scorn on Hibs after yet another derby capitulation. Talking of which, I recall hibs dominating Hearts year in, year out during the period aforementioned. This might be hard to believe for younger Hibbies but it's true.


I disagree to a certain extent.

Arsenal being the prime example of how fast things can change. I remember watching them as a youngster and their style couldn't have been more different to the Arsenal we have seen under Wenger. Once Wenger goes, i doubt we'll see the same pretty style of football people currently witness them playing.

that begs the question - by all intents and purposes are they still an ultra defensive team at heart?

Rory89
25-03-2010, 09:09 PM
I agree with you, your write we no longer play good stuff. But no-one is taking the morale high ground or saying that we play the right way. If anythhing, credit is being given to the hearts and rangers

Yeah I know credit is being given to Hearts and Rangers but the way I read it is that they should be applauded for having a will to win that is stronger than a desire to play good stuff, and I was just pointing out that Hibs don't have a strong will to win or a desire to play good stuff. Neither do Celtic and that's why it's a total joke that Mowbray is saying he admits his ambition for attractive football was the wrong method, and that Rangers and Hearts "negative" football is more effective.

If Mowbray is complimenting Rangers and Hearts it's the most back handed compliment of all time.


Reputations, like I say, are gained over many seasons and decades. With all due respect, if you have been watching Hibs since 2004 then your perspective is limited. You have been fortunate in seeing both the best (Mowbray/Collins)and worst (Mixu)of being a Hibby. I watched Hibs from the mid 60s and was spoilt with regular european nights and quality on the pitch, especially when Turnbulls Tornadoes came along during the early 70s. There was no talk of myths at that point as the Famous Five were still fresh in the minds of the majority of supporters. The so-called "myth" you deride is a latter day thing and I suspect brought up by more Jambos than Hibbies to pour scorn on Hibs after yet another derby capitulation. Talking of which, I recall hibs dominating Hearts year in, year out during the period aforementioned. This might be hard to believe for younger Hibbies but it's true.

I'm fully aware that I haven't been a Hibs supporter as long as most others. What I would say is that I'm aware of how Hibs were meant to have been like to watch under Miller and Blobby Williamson, with Mowbray and McLeish being the positve exceptions of our last 7 managers. Going back further than that I'll bet you've seen some great Hibs sides and it probably gives you a lot of nostalgia, but for me what's in the past is in the past and if we once had a deserved reputation as being a club who plays attractive football, we don't deserve it anymore.

Aberdeen fans would say they have a reputation for being a big, succesfull club whilst everybody else laughs because they don't see it that way, this is kind of similiar for me. I agree about the flair thing being a bigger deal for jambo's than for us though, before and after every derby jambo's I know will jokingly refer to us as the "flairmeisters" or "The Lochend Brazil", even though I've never slagged off their style of play or bigged up Hibs style ever.

Rory89
25-03-2010, 09:22 PM
P.S this thread has found it's way on to kickback, hello. :bye:

Some of the comments annoy me, "Bitter, bitter, bitter, bitter ********s.
They can all get themselves to ****", "trying to tell a hibs fan that they don't play beautiful, expansive, attacking football is like trying to convince a devout creationist that they're wrong."

Where are you getting this from, surely not hibs.net? People don't judge supporters of other teams by what they read on the internet do they :confused:? That would be ****ing stupid.

marinello59
25-03-2010, 09:31 PM
P.S this thread has found it's way on to kickback, hello. :bye:

Some of the comments annoy me, "Bitter, bitter, bitter, bitter ********s.
They can all get themselves to ****", "trying to tell a hibs fan that they don't play beautiful, expansive, attacking football is like trying to convince a devout creationist that they're wrong."

Where are you getting this from, surely not hibs.net? People don't judge supporters of other teams by what they read on the internet do they :confused:? That would be ****ing stupid.

Don't go there then. Simple.:greengrin

Rory89
25-03-2010, 09:40 PM
Don't go there then. Simple.:greengrin

True.

Mind you some of the comments on here annoy me too. :wink:

PapillonVert
25-03-2010, 09:41 PM
As damning as it is of Scottish football, Mowbray has summed up pretty well what is required to be effective (result-wise) in the SPL. Note I say effective and not necessarily entertaining.
Mowbray quote:
"Maybe it isn't a league for trying to force the game and be expansive - maybe it is a league for playing defensive, negative football and having quality up front to counter-attack."

This scenario is pretty gloomy but it would account for most of Hearts higher league placings over the years. They occasionally sprinkle their pub football teams with the odd "flair" player, just enough to suggest they are trying to entertain, but generally they simply grind and grapple their way to a positive result. It might make the eyes bleed, but it is, on the whole, effective and, sadly from a purist point of view, successful. Levein for example, builds his team from the back, making them practically impenetrable (ie Hearts, Dundee United) It only takes 1 goal to then win a match -and how many of those have we witnessed this season alone from the Gorgie grinders.

Rangers are of course the historical and present masters at setting teams out to suffocate the opposition. For example, note how they ground their way to the UEFA cup final recently, playing a defensive, mind-numbingly boring game. Of course, it takes a certain player to play such a game: they must have physical strength allied with a dogged, never-say-die attitude, and are prepared to do whatever, and I mean whatever (ie;elbow in the face off the ball, stand on a a players boots in the penalty area) all those sneeky wee things on the blind side of the ref.
Teams that build a solid defence usually come out on top of games. Scottish football, unless it changes to summer football, will always result in wars of attrition on mud bath fields on dark, dismal, wet and freezing January afternoons. This environment will only suit those teams set up to battle and slog their way to victory.
Flair football is all very well, but Portobello beach is not Copacabana. Most fans tend to want to see their team win first, and be entertained secondly. Hibs fans, on the whole, are no different to the Gorgie faithful, or any other set of supporters in this respect. No wonder the Jambos scorned our ineffective, so-called Brazilian type football under Mowbray after yet another 4 goal mauling.

I hope Yogi has taken onboard some of Mowbrays comments and is prepared to have a major rethink on what type of player he requires and how he sets our team up from now on. I'm not advocating totally negative football, but when there is no Plan B, then it must be considered.Over to you Mr Hughes.


I am responding to the quote and, sorry, haven't read all the responses so if I repeat anything, please forgive me.

Sorry, Tony, this is rubbish. You were a player with Celtic and a manager with Hibs. You knew or ought to have known the nature not only of the SPL but of the poisonous nature of the on-going competition between the self-preserving and self-perpetuating cancer that is the Old Firm in Scottish football.

I don't know what Mowbray's motivation was in accepting the job at Celtic but I have said previously that I thought it was the wrong job for him. I think he should have stayed where he was and built on that.

This was totally the wrong move for him. IMO.

noseyhibby
26-03-2010, 12:08 AM
I agree with you, your write we no longer play good stuff. But no-one is taking the morale high ground or saying that we play the right way. If anythhing, credit is being given to the hearts and rangers

Well spotted. I was in fact giving the jambos and Rangers backhanded compliments, but of course it has gone over the heads of many both on here and especially on kickback. They are so obsessed with slagging us that they simply do not take the time to actually consider or ponder what, for example, my thread was actually saying. The thing is that I cringe when I hear this "flair" nonsense, but it is inevitably jambos themselves constantly referring to it and accusing we Hibbys of using it and actually believing it, thus we are all deluded. It really is a sad mind set down Gorgie way.

Del Boy
26-03-2010, 12:15 AM
Oh for the love of ****ing christ, this rubbish people spout about our style of play bores the tears out of me, I can't even contemplate how stupid it must sound to non Hibees.

The sooner this gets through the better, Hibs do NOT have an exciting, passing brand of football that gives us a moral victory over anti-football mercenaries like Hearts who will play any way for the win, no matter how physical or unattractive. Under Mowbray we often played brilliant stuff and still lost to much poorer teams, but since then we hoof it as much as anyone, ironically I can't remember the last derby where Hibs played more flowing football than Hearts.

It's a ****ing myth and every time we try and take the high ground for another defeat by pointing out our attractive, fast flowing, attack minded hammer throwing it just makes us look more of a joke.

:top marks

noseyhibby
26-03-2010, 12:47 AM
It appears that my earlier post on what it takes to be effective in the SPL has gone completely over a lot of heads both on here and on Kickback. I was in fact giving the Jambos a backhanded compliment, but, like I say, it's gone over their heads. So, for the record I am stating loudly and clearly I do not use the term "Flair" when referring to the current Hibs side It's embarassing and at present an incorrect term to use when referring to the present Hibs. I would be happy if the Media also would refrain from using it when referring to Hibs, which I don't believe they have done so for a few years. It's a term one can only apply during those occasional periods when a team (whoever) plays pretty football which may or may not coincide with playing effective football(ie Hibs under Mowbray;Arsenal, Barcelona) The Jambo obsession with Hibs "flair" knows no bounds. Note it is the jambos themselves who constantly refer to this term and accuse all Hibbies of using it and actually believing it. For all those obsessing on Kickback - please note that Noseyhibby does not use it and neither do any of around 30 or 40 other hibbies I know use it. Certainly if we did it would be to wind you lot up and not because we actually believe it. Right, that's it off my chest. If we Hibbies collectively stopped using it (but God knows who would and still does) and wait a while, I guarantee the Jambos will be the first to use it against us either on their own site or over here. Are you listening Jambos?

greenlex
26-03-2010, 05:07 AM
Personally I prefer the term Bootcut.

OstKurve Hibs
26-03-2010, 05:09 AM
I prefer the term "*****"