PDA

View Full Version : NHC Who's backing England at the World Cup?



Vince White
16-03-2010, 09:25 AM
Hi folks, first post and probably a controversial one. I'm English, but a Hibby, so don't be too hard on me!

What I'd like to know is how many on here agree with this article I read by a Scottish journalist in the Sunday papers? It pretty much sums up how I feel about the whole Scotland/England thing and it's always saddened me a bit that so many Scots seem to get so pent up about it as I've always been happy to see Scotland do well (although admittedly it's a long time since they did so :wink:)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/mar/14/world-cup-football-wayne-rooney (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/mar/14/world-cup-football-wayne-rooney)

hibsbollah
16-03-2010, 09:28 AM
Scots support England?:grr:political correctness gone mad:grr:
Remember Bannockburn, whaes like us etc etc

scott7_0(Prague)
16-03-2010, 09:32 AM
Slovakia for me and ABE!

You just don't get it Vince, if you were Scottish you would :greengrin and hope your next poo is a headghog!! :wink: non the Yanks! :agree:

Hainan Hibs
16-03-2010, 09:36 AM
What really annoys me is the attitude of Scottish people supporting England.

They love to come across better than everyone and belittle anyone who decides not to support England, calling them racists, small-minded or xenophobic.

It's football rivalry. Are the Dutch and Germans racists for their rivalry? USA and Canada? China and Japan?

I want England gubbed, 20% for their media and 80% for the "oh look at me supporting England, how much of a better person am I?" attitude of Scottish people who want them to do well.


Edit - Remembering Lineker, Shearer, Ian Wright, Alan Hansen, Mark Lawrenson, I'd like to change that % to 99.9% media, and 0.1% of the Scottish uber fannies.

Judas Iscariot
16-03-2010, 09:38 AM
If Scotland weren't so ***** would folk still want England to get humped :hmmm:

Scouse Hibee
16-03-2010, 09:40 AM
FFS! The day I get upset about a bit of England/Scotland banter is the day I'll pack up and move back to Liverpool. I wouldn't have it any other way. :agree:

And before anyone try to says it's not just banter it's racist etc:blah::blah: don't even bother.

:singing: ENGERLAND ENGERLAND ENGERLAND

Sudds_1
16-03-2010, 09:42 AM
What really annoys me is the attitude of Scottish people supporting England.

They love to come across better than everyone and belittle anyone who decides not to support England, calling them racists, small-minded or xenophobic.

It's football rivalry. Are the Dutch and Germans racists for their rivalry? USA and Canada? China and Japan?

I want England gubbed, 20% for their media and 80% for the "oh look at me supporting England, how much of a better person am I?" attitude of Scottish people who want them to do well.


Edit - Remembering Lineker, Shearer, Ian Wright, Alan Hansen, Mark Lawrenson, I'd like to change that % to 99.9% media, and 0.1% of the Scottish uber fannies.

Actually, my reasons for wanting them to bomb are largely because of their "meeja".......so 90% media and 5% people 5% players (many of whom are so up themselves they risk rape charges against themselves. :greengrin

If Only
16-03-2010, 09:44 AM
What really annoys me is the attitude of Scottish people supporting England.

They love to come across better than everyone and belittle anyone who decides not to support England, calling them racists, small-minded or xenophobic.

It's football rivalry. Are the Dutch and Germans racists for their rivalry? USA and Canada? China and Japan?

I want England gubbed, 20% for their media and 80% for the "oh look at me supporting England, how much of a better person am I?" attitude of Scottish people who want them to do well.


Edit - Remembering Lineker, Shearer, Ian Wright, Alan Hansen, Mark Lawrenson, I'd like to change that % to 99.9% media, and 1% of the Scottish uber fannies.

And your attitude is spot on then, how on earth do you know or understand why anyone born in Scotland would want England to do well. You have an opinion whether its right or wrong but why do you have to disrespect other people for what they believe in.

davemcbain
16-03-2010, 09:51 AM
I will cheer England on the day I see English fans cheering Germany.

Steve20
16-03-2010, 09:54 AM
If I have a bet on England, then I will be wanting them to win.

Antifa Hibs
16-03-2010, 09:56 AM
I don't want them to win, same time though couldn't care less if they do. They do have every chance this year though with the best player in the world just now at their disposal in Wayne Rooney, must admit to having a soft spot for Rooney, fantastic player/lad.

Scotland-England banter is often good, what I don't get though is some TA bawbags refusing to listen to the New Order and eat Mars bars after their 'involvement' with England, saddo's :faf:

The whole anti English thing is a tad embarrassing though, England generally couldn't care less about Scotland, was infact talking to a few scousers saying the whole pub was cheering on Scotland against Holland last year, Scotland on the other hand..... Reeks of bitterness and jealousy from the Jocks behalf.

A tiny bit in me actually wants England to win just to get it up the scottish skirt wearers :duck::greengrin

PeeJay
16-03-2010, 09:58 AM
What really annoys me is the attitude of Scottish people supporting England.

a) They love to come across better than everyone and belittle anyone who decideds not to support England, calling them racists, small-minded or xenophobic.

b) I want England gubbed, 20% for their media and 80% for the "oh look at me supporting England, how much of a better person am I?" attitude of Scottish people who want them to do well.

a) Sorry, that's just nonsense - why shouldn't Scottish people support England, Wales or N.Ireland (unless against Scotland of course)? The chip on both your shoulders is your problem - indeed Scotland's problem. It seems to be the only way you can define your "Scottishness" is by your pronounced dislike of anything English. Is that best Scotland can muster? Not much is it? It reeks of inferiority complex, is highly "embarrassing and depressing", and of course it's racist if it is directed at at the English team for no reason other than it's the "English" team. The definition of the word "racist" is quite clear: so why continually dispute it? Communication gets somewhat difficult if we all make up our own definitions, surely?

Anyway, I'll be supporting England in the WC - not because I'm superior or a better person, but just because they're the only British team there - a good enough reason for me! Don't bother replying - I know your answer already, fair enough - we disagree. I'm out of here. :bye:

humins
16-03-2010, 10:05 AM
I have found that since leaving europe for the south pacific I have become a lot more laid back about the anti England thing, not having to listen to or watch john motson or jimmy hill helps a lot, but you also find you have more in common with other europeans than you realised while living there. Having said that even as a kiwi I'll be supporting the ozzies against the english, don't hate the poms but still pissed off about the media (ungerlund are the only team ever to merit a mention) bias in the UK, & also got a bet going with a pommie mate that if ungerlund get to the final I've got to wear an ungerlund shirt in public. :bitchy: Come on the all whites!!!:thumbsup:

The_Todd
16-03-2010, 10:08 AM
Since Scotland aren't involved I'm not particularly fussed who does well. I'm not going to support England, but then I'm not going to actively support anyone anyway.

Hibee-Rocker
16-03-2010, 10:17 AM
Dont really get supporting anyone when Scotland's not there, it's like supporting someone else when Hibs get knocked out the cup, no gonna happen, I will watch and enjoy the World Cup, but couldn't give a rats ass who win's.

Scouse Hibee
16-03-2010, 10:19 AM
I will cheer England on the day I see English fans cheering Germany.

I'll do that for you if Scotland ever get to play them in the last 32 of the World Cup (unlikely I know).

bubblesmorrison
16-03-2010, 10:22 AM
i will stick with the abe :thumbsup: it would be like asking me to support heart in a game its just a stupid question

Moody Mulder
16-03-2010, 10:28 AM
a) sorry, that's just nonsense - why shouldn't scottish people support england, wales or n.ireland (unless against scotland of course)? The chip on both your shoulders is your problem - indeed scotland's problem. It seems to be the only way you can define your "scottishness" is by your pronounced dislike of anything english. Is that best scotland can muster? Not much is it? It reeks of inferiority complex, is highly "embarrassing and depressing", and of course it's racist if it is directed at at the english team for no reason other than it's the "english" team. The definition of the word "racist" is quite clear: So why continually dispute it? Communication gets somewhat difficult if we all make up our own definitions, surely?

Anyway, i'll be supporting england in the wc - not because i'm superior or a better person, but just because they're the only british team there - a good enough reason for me! Don't bother replying - i know your answer already, fair enough - we disagree. I'm out of here. :bye:
well said !!

maximushibee
16-03-2010, 10:32 AM
ONLY SUPPORT THREE TEAMS IN THE WORLD HIBS, SCOTLAND AND ANY TEAM THAT PLAYS ENGERLAND HAHAHA:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

HIBERNIAN-0762
16-03-2010, 10:34 AM
My view is that I have many English friends but arrogance from them and the media is at an all time high just now, just turn up and we will win attitude, remember this they wouldn't cross the road to watch, support or even talk about Scottish football (or any Scottish sport for that matter) so there is no way in hell I want them to win at anything, I despise Motson and for sure he wouldn't walk past me in the street!, I like Capello and think he is probably in the top 4 best football managers in the world but also remember this, it gets right up some English ex-players and pundits noses that he's an Italian (or Johnny Foreigner as they like to call them) and the fact that there will never be another Englishman to manage the national team again, and THAT is what bugs them most of all.

ABE! :saltireflag

mim
16-03-2010, 10:36 AM
1966 changed the world, I'm afraid.
Pre-1966 England were simply 'the auld enemy' - our greatest rivals.
Post-1966 the Scottish people have had to put up with the English media trying to talk up England into a world power in football - which they're not and aint been since the days that Scotland were also a 'world power'.

Credit to England for stumbling through 6 games at Wembley to win the World Cup, but that was in an era when Scotland may well have achieved the same at Hampden - Scotland were certainly more than good enough to humiliate England at Wembley in 1967.

In recent years Scotland has become a relative backwater in football terms and England has held station, England are at least still good enough to qualify for finals, but they won't be winning anything again until those finals are again played in England. The English media will not accept that and Scots will continue to have to suffer their misplaced superiority complex.

PansHibs
16-03-2010, 10:41 AM
a) Sorry, that's just nonsense - why shouldn't Scottish people support England, Wales or N.Ireland (unless against Scotland of course)? The chip on both your shoulders is your problem - indeed Scotland's problem. It seems to be the only way you can define your "Scottishness" is by your pronounced dislike of anything English. Is that best Scotland can muster? Not much is it? It reeks of inferiority complex, is highly "embarrassing and depressing", and of course it's racist if it is directed at at the English team for no reason other than it's the "English" team. The definition of the word "racist" is quite clear: so why continually dispute it? Communication gets somewhat difficult if we all make up our own definitions, surely?

Anyway, I'll be supporting England in the WC - not because I'm superior or a better person, but just because they're the only British team there - a good enough reason for me! Don't bother replying - I know your answer already, fair enough - we disagree. I'm out of here. :bye:

I've neber heard so much ****** in all my life. I don't hate England but i certainly don't want them to win anything. If Hearts were the only British team left in a european competition (unlikely i know :greengrin) would you be supporting them. I think not, same goes here they're our rivals FFS

Hibernia Na Eir
16-03-2010, 10:41 AM
ABS

No way on earth i'd support England.

Andy74
16-03-2010, 10:44 AM
It's all about rivalry and it's natural to want nothing but bad things for your rivals.

Anyone talking about racism needs to take their head out their erse!

humins
16-03-2010, 10:51 AM
1966 changed the world, I'm afraid.
Pre-1966 England were simply 'the auld enemy' - our greatest rivals.
Post-1966 the Scottish people have had to put up with the English media trying to talk up England into a world power in football - which they're not and aint been since the days that Scotland were also a 'world power'.

Credit to England for stumbling through 6 games at Wembley to win the World Cup, but that was in an era when Scotland may well have achieved the same at Hampden - Scotland were certainly more than good enough to humiliate England at Wembley in 1967.

In recent years Scotland has become a relative backwater in football terms and England has held station, England are at least still good enough to qualify for finals, but they won't be winning anything again until those finals are again played in England. The English media will not accept that and Scots will continue to have to suffer their misplaced superiority complex.

well said, personally my dislike is for the ungerlund meeja not the average england fan who has the same right to support their team as we do, BUT they don't have to live with meeja erseholes telling them that ungerlund must win the world cup because...well because they're ungerlund and johnny foreigner can't beat them because we're unglish & we invented it, 1966 etc. I have complete respect for english fans supporting their team but absolutely no time or respect for media muppets who assume Scots, Welsh & n.Irish must want ungerlund to win.

PeeJay
16-03-2010, 10:51 AM
I've neber heard so much ****** in all my life. I don't hate England but i certainly don't want them to win anything. If Hearts were the only British team left in a european competition (unlikely i know :greengrin) would you be supporting them. I think not, same goes here they're our rivals FFS

What if Hearts were playing an English team? :faf:


Personally when Hearts played Bayern a few years back I almost actually did want Hearts to sort of win - cause I want any team that plays Bayern Munich to win :sofa: - of course that's not a racist thing

PeeJay
16-03-2010, 10:58 AM
Credit to England for stumbling through 6 games at Wembley to win the World Cup, but that was in an era when Scotland may well have achieved the same at Hampden - Scotland were certainly more than good enough to humiliate England at Wembley in 1967.


Not so sure - Scotland beat England to become World Champions in 1967 to only lose their next home game at Hampden to the mighty whoever they were - didn't matter of course because it wasn't England. IMO we would only ever have won the Word Cup in 1966 - at Hampden - if we had been playing England all the time, if it anyone else we probably wouldn't have turned up - not for six games in a row: no way.

Part/Time Supporter
16-03-2010, 11:01 AM
What really annoys me is the attitude of Scottish people supporting England.

They love to come across better than everyone and belittle anyone who decides not to support England, calling them racists, small-minded or xenophobic.

It's football rivalry. Are the Dutch and Germans racists for their rivalry? USA and Canada? China and Japan?

I want England gubbed, 20% for their media and 80% for the "oh look at me supporting England, how much of a better person am I?" attitude of Scottish people who want them to do well.


Edit - Remembering Lineker, Shearer, Ian Wright, Alan Hansen, Mark Lawrenson, I'd like to change that % to 99.9% media, and 0.1% of the Scottish uber fannies.

:agree:

Would England fans want Germany to beat Brazil in a WC Final? They should support our European friends and neighbours.

:agree:

davemcbain
16-03-2010, 11:09 AM
I'll do that for you if Scotland ever get to play them in the last 32 of the World Cup (unlikely I know).

Now you're just being silly - Scotland in the last 32?????? :faf:

PS I'm not in the ABE camp. I like/dislike England no more or less than any other team I don't follow.

khib70
16-03-2010, 11:11 AM
What really annoys me is the attitude of Scottish people supporting England.

They love to come across better than everyone and belittle anyone who decides not to support England, calling them racists, small-minded or xenophobic.

It's football rivalry. Are the Dutch and Germans racists for their rivalry? USA and Canada? China and Japan?

I want England gubbed, 20% for their media and 80% for the "oh look at me supporting England, how much of a better person am I?" attitude of Scottish people who want them to do well.


Edit - Remembering Lineker, Shearer, Ian Wright, Alan Hansen, Mark Lawrenson, I'd like to change that % to 99.9% media, and 0.1% of the Scottish uber fannies.

:top marks Excellent post.

Hibs On Tour
16-03-2010, 11:15 AM
I'll be supporting England 100%. Born in Scotland of a Scottish mother and English father, so I'm BRITISH.

I think Antifa Hibs got it bang on - first time for everything I suppose! :greengrin

Its not racist in a million years the banter between the home countries - its nationalist certainly but not even close to being racist given we're the same bloody race! FWIW banter is brilliant, I just think this constant 'anyone but England' crap just makes Scotland look like some parochial shortbread-tin parody of itself - kinda like a Mel Gibson vision of Scotland...

Other posters have noted how the English get behind us when we're playing anyone else. They seem to have got the right idea - banter when playing us, support when not. Can't for the life of me understand those up here who can't do the same.

marinello59
16-03-2010, 11:16 AM
I won't be actively supporting them but I could live with them winning it.

Scouse Hibee
16-03-2010, 11:17 AM
Now you're just being silly - Scotland in the last 32?????? :faf:

PS I'm not in the ABE camp. I like/dislike England no more or less than any other team I don't follow.


TBH honest mate I don't care either way, I actually think the ABE issue is quite funny. As I've said before it's all banter to me, I like to dish it out so have no problem at all with any of it. :greengrin

SlickShoes
16-03-2010, 11:21 AM
I will be watching the games and just deciding who to support as it happens. I have a soft spot for France, and depending who is playing england i might root against them. Tend when watching the world cup if its not France or Scotland playing i will always root for the underdog. Generally speaking England are the favourites in there games so i end up rooting against them although there are times i have wanted them to win due to liking some of there players.

Joe Baker II
16-03-2010, 11:23 AM
If Scotland weren't so ***** would folk still want England to get humped :hmmm:

Arguably the opposite, as well as the historical enmity between the 2 countires, most of us grew up with the patronising attitiude often verging on racism of the English media and many English people, and the imbalance in media coverage even when Scotland had decent teams (and we actually did between 2005-08 pre-Burley so was not that long ago either) made the discepancy in coverage appear even worse than it is now - though it is still pretty bad now! For example even when Scotland were still in the 1990 world cup I recall English based commnetators during a Uruguay-Spain game talking almost entirely about England, it is this sort of racism when Scottish money is spent on coverage of its national game from the view of the dominant country politically in the British Isles that really angered people then, and am sure still does.

What I would say in Edinburgh the domination of English people in the best universities/jobs/houses/public schools etc and the general negative impact caused by English influence and settlement in the city, makes Scots supporting the oppostion when England play more pronounced here than elsewhere in Scotland. And the more upset some English people get at non-English people not wanting them to win just encourages many more to support the oppostion more intensely.

SlickShoes
16-03-2010, 11:24 AM
I'll be supporting England 100%. Born in Scotland of a Scottish mother and English father, so I'm BRITISH.

I think Antifa Hibs got it bang on - first time for everything I suppose! :greengrin

Its not racist in a million years the banter between the home countries - its nationalist certainly but not even close to being racist given we're the same bloody race! FWIW banter is brilliant, I just think this constant 'anyone but England' crap just makes Scotland look like some parochial shortbread-tin parody of itself - kinda like a Mel Gibson vision of Scotland...

Other posters have noted how the English get behind us when we're playing anyone else. They seem to have got the right idea - banter when playing us, support when not. Can't for the life of me understand those up here who can't do the same.

Its easier to root for your less successful neighbour. They pose no threat to you and your not jealous of there success.

gogsy
16-03-2010, 11:27 AM
The most common reason given for this attitude is that English football commentators become smug and objectionable when discussing their nation's progress. These worthless rapscallions insist also on talking about 1966, the year in which England won the World Cup. Yet our own Scottish commentators, our Archies and Arthurs and Dougies, have often been just a few heartbeats away from donning their Lions Rampant and wielding claymores as they urge on the Scots from their TV gantries. If Scotland had ever won the World Cup there would be an annual Scotland Month to mark the occasion and full independence would have been gained within the year. Cumbria and the north-east would have been annexed by now.ere would be an annual Scotland Month to mark the occasion and full independence would have been gained within the year. Cumbria and the north-east would have been annexed by now."

The above quote is taken from McKenna's article in the Guardian. The guy is missing the point here. Regardless of how patriotic/jingoistic the likes of Dougie, Archie or Arthur ever become the whole point is that the English DO NOT HAVE TO LISTEN TO THEM. They will have their own commentators at any Scotland games shown in England. Here in Scotland on the other hand, we are force fed the BBC (English) coverage of all England games. I think that the situation would be a lot better if BBC Scotland could cover English games using the Sportscene team and commentators, thus avoiding having to listen to the self deluded English buffoons who think it is a God given right that England should win every competition that they enter. I hope they lose every game they ever play. Period.

Joe Baker II
16-03-2010, 11:29 AM
Other posters have noted how the English get behind us when we're playing anyone else. They seem to have got the right idea - banter when playing us, support when not. Can't for the life of me understand those up here who can't do the same.

I have been in places in Edinburgh and England where Scottish defeats were universally cheered and where the racism many English people have toward the Scots was plainly obvious (and have seen similar atttitudes toward the Welsh rugby union team) - and some of these were over 20 years ago btw so not recent. England supporters also attacked a Croatian man for wearing a Scotland top in Croatia 3 years ago.

England supporters at Wembley in 1985 sung to celebrate Jock Stein's death and anti-Scottsh chanting is not infrequent from England fans and clearly audible on TV. David Beckham stated in 2006 he would never be supporting Scotland (to be fair way he said it was not offensive so nothing against him for this, despite his many other faults) but he did not get the same amount of racist abuse that Andy Murray got for his comments at the same time.

Joe Baker II
16-03-2010, 11:30 AM
The most common reason given for this attitude is that English football commentators become smug and objectionable when discussing their nation's progress. These worthless rapscallions insist also on talking about 1966, the year in which England won the World Cup. Yet our own Scottish commentators, our Archies and Arthurs and Dougies, have often been just a few heartbeats away from donning their Lions Rampant and wielding claymores as they urge on the Scots from their TV gantries. If Scotland had ever won the World Cup there would be an annual Scotland Month to mark the occasion and full independence would have been gained within the year. Cumbria and the north-east would have been annexed by now.ere would be an annual Scotland Month to mark the occasion and full independence would have been gained within the year. Cumbria and the north-east would have been annexed by now."

The above quote is taken from McKenna's article in the Guardian. The guy is missing the point here. Regardless of how patriotic/jingoistic the likes of Dougie, Archie or Arthur ever become the whole point is that the English DO NOT HAVE TO LISTEN TO THEM. They will have their own commentators at any Scotland games shown in England. Here in Scotland on the other hand, we are force fed the BBC (English) coverage of all England games. I think that the situation would be a lot better if BBC Scotland could cover English games using the Sportscene team and commentators, thus avoiding having to listen to the self deluded English buffoons who think it is a God given right that England should win every competition that they enter. I hope they lose every game they ever play. Period.

Spot on, given McKenna is Scottish he should really be able to grasp this simple point.

marinello59
16-03-2010, 11:31 AM
Its easier to root for your less successful neighbour. They pose no threat to you and your not jealous of there success.

Even when we were a decent team the English still would cheer on the Scots against non-British opposition.

Ross4356
16-03-2010, 11:32 AM
I was born in 1982 and have had the world cup win from 1966 rammed down my throat from birth. I must have seen either parts of the final or them lifting the world cup well over 100 times. On the history channel there was an advert for great events of the 20th centuary and them winning was on it, i mean wtf.

I personally have nothing against English people but its the media that make me hate England. If they had won the world cup and rammed it down my throat then maybe I wouldn't want them to get hump.

The fact is the media does and I do

ABE

hibsbollah
16-03-2010, 11:37 AM
Even when we were a decent team the English still would cheer on the Scots against non-British opposition.

Not all would, it depends on the individual. I know plenty of English who love to see the Scots lose.

Joe Baker II
16-03-2010, 11:37 AM
Not so sure - Scotland beat England to become World Champions in 1967 to only lose their next home game at Hampden to the mighty whoever they were - didn't matter of course because it wasn't England. IMO we would only ever have won the Word Cup in 1966 - at Hampden - if we had been playing England all the time, if it anyone else we probably wouldn't have turned up - not for six games in a row: no way.

He said could have won it. Not sure facts bear out your case though.

To be fair our defeat soon after the England game was against the USSR who had been world cup semi finalists less than a year ago and were reigning European Championship runners up.

Then we were unbeaten at home for the next 4 years and I think for 11 games - while maybe not quite championship winning form, not the sort of record that suggests we would not have had a chance of success if we played every game at Hampden.

bubblesmorrison
16-03-2010, 11:39 AM
well said !!

why do hibs fans hate hearts so much?

pritty much along the same lines is it not?

do you want hearts to get beat everytime they play?

so why should scotland fans not want england to get beat everytime the play?

its call rivalry you no like derbys so if your scottish and supporting england in the world cup why not try being a hibby and support hearts :confused:

marinello59
16-03-2010, 11:41 AM
Not all would, it depends on the individual. I know plenty of English who love to see the Scots lose.

Just my opinion based on my experiences living down South. (If I thought all the English got behind Scotland I would have added FACT after my post.:greengrin)

BoltonHibee
16-03-2010, 11:42 AM
England would be the last team in the World I would want to win the World Cup, or anything for that matter!

Can't stand their football team or their press

England GTF!

hibsbollah
16-03-2010, 11:43 AM
Just my opinion based on my experiences living down South. (If I thought all the English got behind ScotlandIi would have added FACT after my post.:greengrin)

End of. Simples. is good too:greengrin

Removed
16-03-2010, 11:44 AM
I was born in 1982 and have had the world cup win from 1966 rammed down my throat from birth. I must have seen either parts of the final or them lifting the world cup well over 100 times. On the history channel there was an advert for great events of the 20th centuary and them winning was on it, i mean wtf.

I personally have nothing against English people but its the media that make me hate England. If they had won the world cup and rammed it down my throat then maybe I wouldn't want them to get hump.

The fact is the media does and I do

ABE

Even though I want England to get beat at every sport, I would have to say that them winning it in '66 does qualify as one of the greatest events of the 20th century. Do you only have objections to that sporting event being included in the list or sporting events in general?

I used to feel like you about the media but it's funnier now just laughing at them. What's the point in getting all :grr: about it?

TBH I actually now feel angrier about the Glasgow based media and how they report on our national team and scottish football in general than how I do about our English neighbours.

hibsbollah
16-03-2010, 11:53 AM
TBH I actually now feel angrier about the Glasgow based media and how they report on our national team and scottish football in general than how I do about our English neighbours.

I'm the same:agree:
(and i dont even have to put up with it that often)

KWJ
16-03-2010, 12:03 PM
As has been said a couple of times they are our rivals. We don't support Hearts why would we support England? Them supporting us is patronising IMO and makes me want to see them get gubbed even more. How would we react to Hearts cheering us on in every game, it'd just be weird!

Then the media, jeez where do you start. I still remember a crucial Scotland game a few years ago, think it was Holland with Faddy, where we began on Sky Sports 1 and were then changed to Sky Sports 2 for the 2nd half because England were playing a meaningless match that HAD to be on SS1. ****ing up those who go to the game and like to tape stuff the old fashioned way of hitting record and walking out.

Then there is the shows were England get 90% of the coverage and Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and the Republic (a foreign ****in country) get the rest of it quickly between us.

Screw them. Get them pumped, mon ABE.

Unfortuantely some people take it too far and it leads to mindless violence like the kid that was attacked during the last WC because he was wearing an England top.

Potty78
16-03-2010, 12:08 PM
Got my ABE shirt today,:thumbsup:

mim
16-03-2010, 12:27 PM
Then we were unbeaten at home for the next 4 years and I think for 11 games - while maybe not quite championship winning form, not the sort of record that suggests we would not have had a chance of success if we played every game at Hampden.
:agree:
Since 1967, I think our first defeat at home in a World Cup qualifier came against Wales in 1985.

allmodcons
16-03-2010, 12:32 PM
I don't want them to win, same time though couldn't care less if they do. They do have every chance this year though with the best player in the world just now at their disposal in Wayne Rooney, must admit to having a soft spot for Rooney, fantastic player/lad.

Scotland-England banter is often good, what I don't get though is some TA bawbags refusing to listen to the New Order and eat Mars bars after their 'involvement' with England, saddo's :faf:

The whole anti English thing is a tad embarrassing though, England generally couldn't care less about Scotland, was infact talking to a few scousers saying the whole pub was cheering on Scotland against Holland last year, Scotland on the other hand..... Reeks of bitterness and jealousy from the Jocks behalf.

A tiny bit in me actually wants England to win just to get it up the scottish skirt wearers :duck::greengrin

You're conveniently highlighting a sad minority in Scotland to suit your argument.

With regard to Scotland reeking of bitterness, I don't agree because again it's a minority view you're highlighting.

It would be just as easy for me to point out that England reeks of racism and imperialism (not that I would) because a minoity of their fans are more than comfortable chanting racist songs and spouting pish about who won the war when playing Germany.

Bad Martini
16-03-2010, 12:35 PM
ABE :saltireflag:saltireflag

Bring on the Gerries, the semi-finals, the penalty shoot out and the national baddie (south of the border) and national hero north of it :greengrin

Dinkydoo
16-03-2010, 12:38 PM
Naw :faf:

Pretty Boy
16-03-2010, 12:42 PM
I want England to do well at the World Cup and i'm Scottish.

I don't think i'm better than anyone else or particularly want to get into an argument with the ABE brigade.

The simple fact is a lot of my mates are English and i'll be watching most England games with them and frankly i'd rather see a British or Irish team do well than support a country i have never visited and know little about.

The intersting thing about the Scottish/English rivalry when it comes to football is that whilst many Scots get hugely worked up by England doing well and support almost anyone playing against them, most English guys i know actually like seeing Scotland do well and i have seen a fair few actively support us in games.

One incident which really stuck in my mind was watching the England v Argentina game at the 2002 World Cup, a group of Scottish guys in their late 30s/early 40s started up a chant of 'Malvinas, Malvinas' towards a group of English guys watching in the same pub. To me this went way beyond banter and was pretty pathetic, not least because of how many Scots were killed in the Falklands war.

I generally find some Scottish people a bit hypocritical as well when it comes to the media hype around 1966. Don't get me wrong i despise John Motson as much as anyone but when ever 1966 is mentioned near my mate he will instantly come out with 'aye but what about 1967 when Celtic won the European Cup and we gubbed yous at Wembley'. It seems to me we are as obsessed with 1967 as the English are with 1966, and rightly so because thats football banter, what i find it hard to understand why people are so bitter about England glorifying in a World Cup win, after all it's a huge aceivement and should Scotland ever do it i would talk about it until my dying day, as i would should Hibs win the Scottish Cup etc etc.

ScottB
16-03-2010, 12:44 PM
It's primarily my dislike of the English Media's chat that sees me rooting for their defeat. If they stopped linking everything to 1966 or talking about who England might draw in the semi finals during games that have bugger all to do with them I wouldn't care either way.

I can't see them winning, losing Beckham is a huge blow IMO, he seems to be about the only player who actually gives a toss about playing for the team.

I can see them being defeated by problems in their own camp, either from scandals already or broken or the very real chance the English media will stir something up.

Booked4Being-Ugly
16-03-2010, 12:57 PM
I don't mind England at all and my grandad was English. I have English family and friends that i really like and whom in return love Scotland. I like most of the England team individually and even admire and envy their skill when playing for club and country. I think the England team is really strong and capable of winning the world Cup.

When the World Cup starts i won't even mind watching and enjoying all the games including England and i will be indifferent if they win or loose.

Once the tournament continues into the next round then the Media jingoism starts and we are told that England are fantastic and it's just a matter of time before they lift the trophy. They are certainties to win it after each round and there's nothing that stands between them and the trophy! Yip, they will win it, we are told so on every sports channel and the prime time news and the English nation goes way over the top and they get way above themselves. English nationalism goes into overdrive!

This is when i want Engurland to get ****ed right out by any means possible!

Sir David Gray
16-03-2010, 01:07 PM
In a word, no.

I will not be supporting England at this year's World Cup or at any major championships for that matter.

I will be supporting the USA, Algeria and Slovenia and if England progress past the group stage, I'll be supporting whoever they play after that.

In the event of them actually winning the whole thing, I would seriously consider emigrating to some uninhabited island in the Pacific.

AFKA5814_Hibs
16-03-2010, 01:08 PM
I am not English and have no English relatives, so see no reason to support them over any other country at the World Cup.

If British people should support another British team in the World Cup, then as Hibs fans we should all support the other Edinburgh team if they get to a Cup Final, as Scots we should all support the OF in Europe.

I've heard people in England say its cause we have a chip on our shoulder, but do these same English folk support their bigger local rival in Europe? All Man City fans should support United, all Spurs fans should support Arsenal, all Everton fans should support Liverpool and so on, bet they don't though. Bet they are actively supporting the foreign team their rivals are playing.

I'll be holidaying on the south coast of England the weekend of the World Cup Final, don't expect me to be draped in a St George's Cross flag if they get to the Final. :eek:

Dashing Bob S
16-03-2010, 01:12 PM
What really gets on my nerves is that every time a major international tournament comes along, you get posh journalists who have never attended a football game in their lives, writing articles about this subject matter, and using it as an excuse to fly personal kites about 'racism' and 'the state of the union.'

It's pointless asking what part of the term 'football rivalry' do they not understand, as they clearly have no concept of either.

I'll be supporting anybody who plays England, and look forward with glee to baiting the English members of my family and my close English friends as they allow themselves to be whipped into a foaming-mouthed frenzy by their jingoistic media, only to fall hard around the QF, SF stage's to a more technically gifted and skillful side. Being Scottish, it's one of the few things that makes international football worthwhile.

The day I want England to win the World Cup is the day I want Hearts to win the SPL. If that makes me a covert racist, jealous or self-hating Scot by the pious, self-righteous, glory-hunting, social controlling bores who not only want to gatecrash somebody else's party, but also want the rest of us to come along and feed on the crumbs of this sickly cake, then so be it. As far as I'm concerned they can GTF with all that crap right now.

yekimevol
16-03-2010, 01:13 PM
anyone but england !!!!

ill be supporting italy again for me and the ivory cost for sol

iwasthere1972
16-03-2010, 01:34 PM
Hi folks, first post and probably a controversial one. I'm English, but a Hibby, so don't be too hard on me!

What I'd like to know is how many on here agree with this article I read by a Scottish journalist in the Sunday papers? It pretty much sums up how I feel about the whole Scotland/England thing and it's always saddened me a bit that so many Scots seem to get so pent up about it as I've always been happy to see Scotland do well (although admittedly it's a long time since they did so :wink:)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/mar/14/world-cup-football-wayne-rooney (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/mar/14/world-cup-football-wayne-rooney)

Haven't bothered reading article as nothing would make me want England to win in any sport whether it be football, ludo, tiddlywinks, dominoes etc etc.

:devil:

Vince White
16-03-2010, 01:47 PM
Slovakia for me and ABE!

You just don't get it Vince, if you were Scottish you would :greengrin and hope your next poo is a headghog!! :wink: non the Yanks! :agree:


I think I do 'get it' to some extent Scott, having lived about half my life in Scotland :wink:

However, it's interesting to see quite a spread of opinions on this issue because I kinda thought I'd get shot down in flames.

I now live back down south in Manchester and while I understand entirely the 'banter' bit of the Scotland v England rivalry, what struck a chord with me about Kevin McKenna's article is that there are so many Scots who live and work in England and support English football clubs with as much (and often more) passion than English fans of the club. Yet when players they cheer on each week get picked for England they boo them! Personally I think it's great when a Hibs player gets picked for Scotland and I would be proud to see him score for them, even against England. I remember being in a pub a few years back and loving it when Riordan and O'Connor formed the Scotland strike pairing in friendly against Austria.

As for 1966, does it REALLY get 'rammed down Scotland's throats'? If anything I'd see we're a bit embarrassed that it's over 40 years since we won a major tournament rather than seeing it as something to gloat about.

IWasThere2016
16-03-2010, 01:48 PM
MON THE ABE! :thumbsup:

Espana for me :agree:

Vince White
16-03-2010, 01:53 PM
What really gets on my nerves is that every time a major international tournament comes along, you get posh journalists who have never attended a football game in their lives, writing articles about this subject matter, and using it as an excuse to fly personal kites about 'racism' and 'the state of the union.'



Normally I'd agree Bob but I've been introduced to Kevin McKenna in the past and he's about as far from a 'posh' journalist as you can imagine. And he certainly knows his football which is why I was surprised to see his name on this article. That's why I wondered if his view was more prevalent than I previously thought.

Vince White
16-03-2010, 02:02 PM
Haven't bothered reading article as nothing would make me want England to win in any sport whether it be football, ludo, tiddlywinks, dominoes etc etc.

:devil:

I think I should perhaps have put a different title on the thread as the whole point of my question depends on you reading the article, not just informing me of your level of hatred for all English sporting representatives :wink:

God Petrie
16-03-2010, 02:05 PM
In the interests of consistency, I hope the people supporting Engerland in the World Cup will also support Hearts in the Scottish Cup next year if Hibs get knocked out.

Forza ABE - get right in about those sassenach tossers.

Vince White
16-03-2010, 02:09 PM
[QUOTE=Hibs On Tour;2389811]I'll be supporting England 100%. Born in Scotland of a Scottish mother and English father, so I'm BRITISH.
[QUOTE]

Must be quite a nice position to be in, not having to take sides :wink:

FWIW I think the best way forward for international and club football in the UK is a British League and a British National Team. I honestly think it would improve standards and raise interest in the game, especially in Scotland where I think we'd all admit the current set-up has become utterly predictable and stale. Not expecting everyone to agree, but I suspect the fact there's going to be a British football team at the Olympics may bring such a scenario closer.

Pretty Boy
16-03-2010, 02:15 PM
In the interests of consistency, I hope the people supporting Engerland in the World Cup will also support Hearts in the Scottish Cup next year if Hibs get knocked out.

Forza ABE - get right in about those sassenach tossers.

Completely different IMO. I chose to support Hibs and thus chose to make Hearts my rival. I am Scottish not through choice but through the fact i was born and raised here. If i had a choice over which national team i supported i probably wouldn't have picked Scotland.

Hibernating (Im a stoopid yam tramp)
16-03-2010, 02:21 PM
Ingerlun? No and way!

Septimus
16-03-2010, 02:21 PM
When I waken in the morning feeling particularly inferior due to my Scottish birth I sometimes contemplate why it can possibly be that arguably the best manager in English football is Scottish. I then wonder why top teams in the English premier league can put out eleven players not one of whom is English and then I consider why I should even waste time feeling inferior. Indeed, they seem to be incapable of chosing from the serried ranks of their experts (who after all invented the game) a manager capable of controlling their own team.

There are numerically more English than there are Scots in the UK and that is about the only fact historically which makes them superior to us. I like watching them being beaten at anything but I suspect that is mostly due to the hysterical rubbish which their journalists and presenters spout about just how good they are. We Scots are always suspicious of a blowbag.

One thing is for sure. I will eat no Mars Bars during the world cup just in case their sponsorship assists the English team to win. And another. I will enjoy the dismantling of their own team in the daily papers when England again fail to live up to their inflated expectations.

Mag7
16-03-2010, 02:24 PM
Completely different IMO. I chose to support Hibs and thus chose to make Hearts my rival. I am Scottish not through choice but through the fact i was born and raised here. If i had a choice over which national team i supported i probably wouldn't have picked Scotland.

Interesting point. It's always been a source of irritation to me that if you're Scottish but don't have an unquestioning adoration of the national team you're somehow not a true Scot.

Septimus
16-03-2010, 02:31 PM
And, incidentally we did not 'willingly" enter a Union with England. The fact is that there were riots in the streets when we did and we were dragged into a union in 1707 which was not economically advantageous to Scotland. It was at least thirty years until any economic benefit arrived and even then it was tenuous. To the gentleman in the Guardian I would say.

Ging oan yersel!

Hibernating (Im a stoopid yam tramp)
16-03-2010, 03:12 PM
And, incidentally we did not 'willingly" enter a Union with England. The fact is that there were riots in the streets when we did and we were dragged into a union in 1707 which was not economically advantageous to Scotland. It was at least thirty years until any economic benefit arrived and even then it was tenuous. To the gentleman in the Guardian I would say.

Ging oan yersel!


If you balanced it out it was little benefit at all. Hundreds of thousands of Scots' dead piled up in great funeral pyres fighting English imperialist wars. Made a few weegies rich on tobacco, big deal. Factor in the North Sea oil for the past thirty years and that wipes that out.

Mag7
16-03-2010, 03:42 PM
The above quote is taken from McKenna's article in the Guardian. The guy is missing the point here. Regardless of how patriotic/jingoistic the likes of Dougie, Archie or Arthur ever become the whole point is that the English DO NOT HAVE TO LISTEN TO THEM. They will have their own commentators at any Scotland games shown in England. Here in Scotland on the other hand, we are force fed the BBC (English) coverage of all England games. I think that the situation would be a lot better if BBC Scotland could cover English games using the Sportscene team and commentators, thus avoiding having to listen to the self deluded English buffoons who think it is a God given right that England should win every competition that they enter. I hope they lose every game they ever play. Period.

I don't get this argument. Nobody's 'force feeding' us anything. Just switch the TV off if there's something on you don't want to watch. It's your choice.

Thing is for all that we moan about the English games being shown in Scotland and how much we hate the English commentators the irony is that many of Scotland's city centre pubs will be full to bursting with Scots wanting to watch the England games come the World Cup. Yes, most will be there to cheer on whoever England are playing, but it's a slightly desperate obsession IMHO. Can you imagine English pubs filling up with England fans cheering on whoever Scotland are playing? Never happens and never will happen because the hatred is pretty much all one way.

Swedish hibee
16-03-2010, 03:44 PM
In answer to the original question, will i be cheering on England..

No :wtf:

I'll be supporting whoever they play.. :not worth

Vince White
16-03-2010, 03:56 PM
I don't get this argument. Nobody's 'force feeding' us anything. Just switch the TV off if there's something on you don't want to watch. It's your choice.

Thing is for all that we moan about the English games being shown in Scotland and how much we hate the English commentators the irony is that many of Scotland's city centre pubs will be full to bursting with Scots wanting to watch the England games come the World Cup. Yes, most will be there to cheer on whoever England are playing, but it's a slightly desperate obsession IMHO. Can you imagine English pubs filling up with England fans cheering on whoever Scotland are playing? Never happens and never will happen because the hatred is pretty much all one way.

That's certainly true in my experience.

McIntosh
16-03-2010, 04:03 PM
The English are the people we share this small island with and of course I want them to do well.......but not to well.:wink:

blackpoolhibs
16-03-2010, 04:09 PM
I'm going to boo them onto the pitch, boo during the national anthem, and boo constantly during and after their games. And i dont give a **** if that makes me a racist, or a bad fan.:wink:

Sir David Gray
16-03-2010, 04:11 PM
I don't get this argument. Nobody's 'force feeding' us anything. Just switch the TV off if there's something on you don't want to watch. It's your choice.

Thing is for all that we moan about the English games being shown in Scotland and how much we hate the English commentators the irony is that many of Scotland's city centre pubs will be full to bursting with Scots wanting to watch the England games come the World Cup. Yes, most will be there to cheer on whoever England are playing, but it's a slightly desperate obsession IMHO. Can you imagine English pubs filling up with England fans cheering on whoever Scotland are playing? Never happens and never will happen because the hatred is pretty much all one way.

It's not quite that simple.

Yes you're quite right to say that if you switched off your TV then you wouldn't be subjected to any gloating etc but unless you're a total recluse, most people watch TV on a daily basis and if you do watch the TV during major football competitions that England are a part of, you get the hype, and everything that goes with it, rammed down your throat at every single opportunity, sometimes even during programmes that you wouldn't normally expect to cover football issues. It's practically impossible to avoid.

I think it's fair to point out that a lot of English media goes nationwide, i.e. the whole of the UK gets it, but Northern Irish, Welsh and Scottish media is generally only broadcast in those countries.

Hibernating (Im a stoopid yam tramp)
16-03-2010, 04:21 PM
England loving huns should know Wayne Rooney is really an Irishman, just like Stevie G and Jamie Carragher.

scott7_0(Prague)
16-03-2010, 04:34 PM
As for 1966, does it REALLY get 'rammed down Scotland's throats'? If anything I'd see we're a bit embarrassed that it's over 40 years since we won a major tournament rather than seeing it as something to gloat about.


See your as bad as the media... :greengrin

Why do you think England are good enough to win a major tournament??

Face facts they are crap and got lucky in 1965+12months or cheated some may say.....

Now at least we know Scotland are shight! :greengrin

murphy
16-03-2010, 04:44 PM
I'll be in the States when England play America. Safe to say I WON'T be supporting England, and WON'T be the only one! :greengrin

joe breezy
16-03-2010, 04:54 PM
Hi folks, first post and probably a controversial one. I'm English, but a Hibby, so don't be too hard on me!

What I'd like to know is how many on here agree with this article I read by a Scottish journalist in the Sunday papers? It pretty much sums up how I feel about the whole Scotland/England thing and it's always saddened me a bit that so many Scots seem to get so pent up about it as I've always been happy to see Scotland do well (although admittedly it's a long time since they did so :wink:)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/mar/14/world-cup-football-wayne-rooney (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/mar/14/world-cup-football-wayne-rooney)

I'm not sure Vince, I live in England and at least half of my friends are English but when you're Scottish you get taught about Bannockburn, Highland Clearances etc and even though those events have nothing to do with any living English people the rivalry is very deep because of these historical factors.

Add in Margaret Thatcher, the Tories, Jimmy Hill etc and it's not hard to see why the rivalry is still alive.

Plus we're small, England is big and better in many ways especially at football nowadays which is a shame as we used to genuinely compete.

I enjoy a bit of banter with West Ham / England fan mates and that's how it should be. Unfortunately there are a few idiots for whom it turns into blind hatred and racism but at the end of the day I wouldn't expect Man City fans to cheer Man United on the Champions League final so I see no reason why Scots would cheer on England.

Yes we have more in common with England than any other country bar Ireland or Wales perhaps but the rivalry is there.

FWIW there are a lot of England players I like but I will still have a chuckle if they get beat, sorry.

Please don't let this attitude put youoff Hibs though as we are all Hibs together regardless of which country you're from :greengrin

Vince White
16-03-2010, 05:09 PM
See your as bad as the media... :greengrin

Why do you think England are good enough to win a major tournament??

Face facts they are crap and got lucky in 1965+12months or cheated some may say.....

Now at least we know Scotland are shight! :greengrin

I didn't say we're good enough (although this year I think we have a team CAPABLE of getting to the latter stages) but I think it's fair to say a country the size of England and with its obsession with football should be in with a shout. Yup, we HAVE been crap for long periods (during the 70s and under that embarrassment McClaren in particular) but in general I think we are capable of more and have punched below our weight. I don't think that's an arrogant thing to say, just realistic. Sorry to agree with you re Scotland, they have been very poor indeed for a very long time but prior to that would it be fair to say they punched ABOVE their weight when you take into account their size in comparison to England?

Hainan Hibs
16-03-2010, 05:20 PM
a) Sorry, that's just nonsense - why shouldn't Scottish people support England, Wales or N.Ireland (unless against Scotland of course)? The chip on both your shoulders is your problem - indeed Scotland's problem. It seems to be the only way you can define your "Scottishness" is by your pronounced dislike of anything English. Is that best Scotland can muster? Not much is it? It reeks of inferiority complex, is highly "embarrassing and depressing", and of course it's racist if it is directed at at the English team for no reason other than it's the "English" team. The definition of the word "racist" is quite clear: so why continually dispute it? Communication gets somewhat difficult if we all make up our own definitions, surely?


1st did I accidentally take a Colin Nish in your cereal?

I never said Scottish people shouldn't support England, if they want to fair enough, it's the attitude of some of them that gets on my nerves.

I don't have any chips on my shoulder. It's football rivalry and I have a good laugh with English mates about it. I'll slag them off when they get humped, they'll do the same. I don't define my Scottishness by denouncing anything English and I don't know where you got that idea from?

The "racist" thing you bring up, eh? Most of the world would be racist then? Everyone has a rival they want to see beat. Hibs Hearts? It's the same is it not?


Anyway, I'll be supporting England in the WC - not because I'm superior or a better person, but just because they're the only British team there - a good enough reason for me! Don't bother replying - I know your answer already, fair enough - we disagree. I'm out of here. :bye:

Fair enough, I don't believe in Britain and I'll be following ABE.

Oh, and a big waving smiley, well that's me certainly put in my place.

Joe Baker II
16-03-2010, 05:31 PM
:agree:
Since 1967, I think our first defeat at home in a World Cup qualifier came against Wales in 1985.

We lost to Poland in 1965, next defeat in WC qualifier was Wales in 1985 as you say, next one was Norway in 2004.

Joe Baker II
16-03-2010, 05:34 PM
Even when we were a decent team the English still would cheer on the Scots against non-British opposition.

That is not true, there has always been an anti-Scottish element in England as per some of the posts above.

PeeJay
16-03-2010, 05:51 PM
I never said Scottish people shouldn't support England, if they want to fair enough, it's the attitude of some of them that gets on my nerves.


Read your own post please - where does it say SOME people??

"What really annoys me is the attitude of Scottish people supporting England." Your post! So what do you mean then - this or that?

I, for my part, have written several times that not wanting "England" to win is not in itself racist UNLESS you (or anyone else naturally) do it all the time and whatever England are involved in just because it's England - irrespective or game, tournament, importance or relevance to Scotland etc. If it's based solely on race it's racist: simple concept. No point in comparing it with rivalry and Hearts - they're not a race of people.

The "waving smiley" was not meant to put "you in your place" it was just intended as a friendly farewell as I was 'out of here' - as I wrote. If it has some sinister connotation for you then maybe you should consider the chips on your shoulder after all?

noseyhibby
16-03-2010, 05:51 PM
a) Sorry, that's just nonsense - why shouldn't Scottish people support England, Wales or N.Ireland (unless against Scotland of course)? The chip on both your shoulders is your problem - indeed Scotland's problem. It seems to be the only way you can define your "Scottishness" is by your pronounced dislike of anything English. Is that best Scotland can muster? Not much is it? It reeks of inferiority complex, is highly "embarrassing and depressing", and of course it's racist if it is directed at at the English team for no reason other than it's the "English" team. The definition of the word "racist" is quite clear: so why continually dispute it? Communication gets somewhat difficult if we all make up our own definitions, surely?

Anyway, I'll be supporting England in the WC - not because I'm superior or a better person, but just because they're the only British team there - a good enough reason for me! Don't bother replying - I know your answer already, fair enough - we disagree. I'm out of here. :bye:

Another reasoned, rational post.:agree:

Mag7
16-03-2010, 05:55 PM
What really gets on my nerves is that every time a major international tournament comes along, you get posh journalists who have never attended a football game in their lives, writing articles about this subject matter, and using it as an excuse to fly personal kites about 'racism' and 'the state of the union.'

It's pointless asking what part of the term 'football rivalry' do they not understand, as they clearly have no concept of either.

I'll be supporting anybody who plays England, and look forward with glee to baiting the English members of my family and my close English friends as they allow themselves to be whipped into a foaming-mouthed frenzy by their jingoistic media, only to fall hard around the QF, SF stage's to a more technically gifted and skillful side. Being Scottish, it's one of the few things that makes international football worthwhile.

The day I want England to win the World Cup is the day I want Hearts to win the SPL. If that makes me a covert racist, jealous or self-hating Scot by the pious, self-righteous, glory-hunting, social controlling bores who not only want to gatecrash somebody else's party, but also want the rest of us to come along and feed on the crumbs of this sickly cake, then so be it. As far as I'm concerned they can GTF with all that crap right now.

Fair to say you get more pleasure out of not supporting England than you do out of supporting Scotland? :wink:

hibsbollah
16-03-2010, 05:57 PM
Fair to say you get more pleasure out of not supporting England than you do out of supporting Scotland? :wink:

Im sure Bob can speak for himself, but that describes my position fairly well:agree:

noseyhibby
16-03-2010, 06:16 PM
Hi folks, first post and probably a controversial one. I'm English, but a Hibby, so don't be too hard on me!

What I'd like to know is how many on here agree with this article I read by a Scottish journalist in the Sunday papers? It pretty much sums up how I feel about the whole Scotland/England thing and it's always saddened me a bit that so many Scots seem to get so pent up about it as I've always been happy to see Scotland do well (although admittedly it's a long time since they did so :wink:)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/mar/14/world-cup-football-wayne-rooney (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/mar/14/world-cup-football-wayne-rooney)

I've just read the article and I have to agree with most of it. I'm a Scot, born and bred, and I will for definite be supporting England. They are British and they are all that I have l left to support from our British isles. Should Scotland ever meet England in the world cup finals itself, then I will support both teams and say bad luck to the team that loses and well done to the team that wins. It's a game of football and nothing more. I am proud to be part of the British isles and have England as my neighbour. I am British first and a Scot second. I am happy that we settled our differences centuries ago and shook hands on an amalgamation of the crown and government, both to our mutual benefit. I was happy to marry an English lass, and was moved to anger at so-called fellow Scots who worked with her and who didn't hide their anti-Englishness by snidy, cutting comments that demoralised and intimidated her on occasion. It was blatant racism and many of those that affected her hid behind the "Oh, I'm only really against the English media and government, oh yes, not forgetting their football teams, in fact any sporting Englishman/woman, and oh yes, their accents " It's these individuals I pour scorn on. These people belong in the dark ages and deserving of utter contempt. Give them the circumstances and they will turn to violence as they are ultimately driven by racism and hatred of the English. This might prove strong language for some, but those I am referring too know who they are and what I'm getting at. Of course not every Scot is an English-hater/and or racist. I accept banter and a certain rivalry, but cheering on Germany, for example, when a British team is representing our islands is contemptious and embarrassing, as it shows nothing but a tribal, caveman mentality and national and enormous chip-on-the-shoulder.

iwasthere1972
16-03-2010, 06:20 PM
I've just read the article and I have to agree with most of it. I'm a Scot, born and bred, and I will for definite be supporting England. They are British and they are all that I have l left to support from our British isles. Should Scotland ever meet England in the world cup finals itself, then I will support both teams and say bad luck to the team that loses and well done to the team that wins. It's a game of football and nothing more. I am proud to be part of the British isles and have England as my neighbour. I am British first and a Scot second. I am happy that we settled our differences centuries ago and shook hands on an amalgamation of the crown and government, both to our mutual benefit. I was happy to marry an English lass, and was moved to anger at so-called fellow Scots who worked with her and who didn't hide their anti-Englishness by snidy, cutting comments that demoralised and intimidated her on occasion. It was blatant racism and many of those that affected her hid behind the "Oh, I'm only really against the English media and government, oh yes, not forgetting their football teams, in fact any sporting Englishman/woman, and oh yes, their accents " It's these individuals I pour scorn on. These people belong in the dark ages and deserving of utter contempt. Give them the circumstances and they will turn to violence as they are ultimately driven by racism and hatred of the English. This might prove strong language for some, but those I am referring too know who they are and what I'm getting at. Of course not every Scot is an English-hater/and or racist. I accept banter and a certain rivalry, but cheering on Germany, for example, when a British team is representing our islands is contemptious and embarrassing, as it shows nothing but a tribal, caveman mentality and national and enormous chip-on-the-shoulder.

Any credibility that you had has just been whipped away from you with that quote.

Mag7
16-03-2010, 06:23 PM
Should this thread be merged with the Beckham one? Seems the debate has become pretty much the same on each one.

iwasthere1972
16-03-2010, 06:27 PM
Should this thread be merged with the Beckham one? Seems the debate has become pretty much the same on each one.


Better still....just merge the both of them and delete. :agree:



THREAD CLOSED

Albanian Hibs
16-03-2010, 06:30 PM
A.B.E please :agree: I hate everything there is about Engerlund :agree:

Albanian Hibs
16-03-2010, 06:32 PM
I'll be in the States when England play America. Safe to say I WON'T be supporting England, and WON'T be the only one! :greengrin

Yeah me too...USA USA USA USA USA USA USA :greengrin

noseyhibby
16-03-2010, 06:33 PM
Any credibility that you had has just been whipped away from you with that quote.

In your eyes. If you felt British in any way you would understand my logic. I could easily say that I support Scotland first and England second and could be telling the truth, but this is too cliched and obvious. I try to stand outside my animal instincts to support something conditioned into me. It's hard sometimes, and it's taken me 50 years to get where I am. I make no apologies for seeing a bigger picture in life.

Dashing Bob S
16-03-2010, 06:38 PM
Fair to say you get more pleasure out of not supporting England than you do out of supporting Scotland? :wink:

I'd get more pleasure scrubbing my scrotum with a sanding block than I would out of supporting Scotland.

iwasthere1972
16-03-2010, 06:48 PM
I'd get more pleasure scrubbing my scrotum with a sanding block than I would out of supporting Scotland.

Bollox. :greengrin

Vince White
16-03-2010, 06:58 PM
I'd get more pleasure scrubbing my scrotum with a sanding block than I would out of supporting Scotland.

I will admit that the appointment of Craig Levein as Scotland boss doesn't sit too well with me. He really was an unpleasant character as Hearts manager and is one of these guys who carries a misplaced arrogance about him. He was pretty much a disaster at Leicester yet refused to accept he was in any way at fault.

And his readiness to welcome back Ferguson, McCulloch etc back into the fold was wrong IMHO.

RigRoars
16-03-2010, 07:09 PM
Me.

I hope England win it.

I have many English friends and workmates and i wont let a few idiots in the media cloud my judgment.

When England play Scotland i want Scotland to win,otherwise...our neebs

tamig
16-03-2010, 07:11 PM
Hi folks, first post and probably a controversial one. I'm English, but a Hibby, so don't be too hard on me!

What I'd like to know is how many on here agree with this article I read by a Scottish journalist in the Sunday papers? It pretty much sums up how I feel about the whole Scotland/England thing and it's always saddened me a bit that so many Scots seem to get so pent up about it as I've always been happy to see Scotland do well (although admittedly it's a long time since they did so :wink:)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/mar/14/world-cup-football-wayne-rooney (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/mar/14/world-cup-football-wayne-rooney)

I'll be backing you bud! :agree:

jdships
16-03-2010, 07:16 PM
During the 2002 WC I was a patient in Ward 5 at the old Royal Infirmary.
One of the male Staff Nurses played lower league senior football and enjoyed chatting about the game in general.
We had a large TV at the end of the ward and on the day England were playing Argentina he brought in 20 odd small Argentina flags on sticks .
A number of the doctor's and nurses were English and he had us
" trained " to wave our flags and chant "we love the Argies" when they were around :greengrin
Went down like a lead balloon with some of them but great fun :devil:

NYHibby
16-03-2010, 07:43 PM
I'm proud to say that I will not be supporting England for purely nationalistic reasons.

twiceinathens
16-03-2010, 08:36 PM
This is a competition which involves seperate football nations. My nation is not competing so why should I support another because it is a close neighbour? I watch the tournament as a football spectacle. As far as the winner is concerned my major concern with England winning it is that the 66 obsession would be redoubled no doubt to the end of time.

Bostonhibby
16-03-2010, 08:42 PM
I'll be supporting England 100%. Born in Scotland of a Scottish mother and English father, so I'm BRITISH.

I think Antifa Hibs got it bang on - first time for everything I suppose! :greengrin

Its not racist in a million years the banter between the home countries - its nationalist certainly but not even close to being racist given we're the same bloody race! FWIW banter is brilliant, I just think this constant 'anyone but England' crap just makes Scotland look like some parochial shortbread-tin parody of itself - kinda like a Mel Gibson vision of Scotland...

Other posters have noted how the English get behind us when we're playing anyone else. They seem to have got the right idea - banter when playing us, support when not. Can't for the life of me understand those up here who can't do the same.

:agree: probably the nearest post to my own view, lived in Engerlund half my life and the average Joe down here tends to be a bit sympathetic leaning towards supportive of us Scots. I think the English Meejah sets them up for a fall by swinging from nationalist and patriotic hype to crucifying them when they fail - all helps sell papers. For me its really jsut a big damp squib, for the moment they have enough English players left to get their usual QF place and then exit. Not bothered how they do but wish we could do better, these days are gone for a while though I fear.

faffkid
16-03-2010, 08:53 PM
I used to feel like you about the media but it's funnier now just laughing at them. What's the point in getting all :grr: about it?

TBH I actually now feel angrier about the Glasgow based media and how they report on our national team and scottish football in general than how I do about our English neighbours.[/QUOTE]

wait till the world cup

Hibster
16-03-2010, 09:08 PM
I've just read the article and I have to agree with most of it. I'm a Scot, born and bred, and I will for definite be supporting England. They are British and they are all that I have l left to support from our British isles. Should Scotland ever meet England in the world cup finals itself, then I will support both teams and say bad luck to the team that loses and well done to the team that wins. It's a game of football and nothing more. I am proud to be part of the British isles and have England as my neighbour. I am British first and a Scot second. I am happy that we settled our differences centuries ago and shook hands on an amalgamation of the crown and government, both to our mutual benefit. I was happy to marry an English lass, and was moved to anger at so-called fellow Scots who worked with her and who didn't hide their anti-Englishness by snidy, cutting comments that demoralised and intimidated her on occasion. It was blatant racism and many of those that affected her hid behind the "Oh, I'm only really against the English media and government, oh yes, not forgetting their football teams, in fact any sporting Englishman/woman, and oh yes, their accents " It's these individuals I pour scorn on. These people belong in the dark ages and deserving of utter contempt. Give them the circumstances and they will turn to violence as they are ultimately driven by racism and hatred of the English. This might prove strong language for some, but those I am referring too know who they are and what I'm getting at. Of course not every Scot is an English-hater/and or racist. I accept banter and a certain rivalry, but cheering on Germany, for example, when a British team is representing our islands is contemptious and embarrassing, as it shows nothing but a tribal, caveman mentality and national and enormous chip-on-the-shoulder.

Football is nothing without rivalries. We might not be much of a rival to England but they're certainly our biggest rivals, it would be tragic if everyone had your attitude. imagine if we all supported Hearts and they all supported us - what would be the point?

seriously, a Scot supporting both Scotland and England equally when playing each other, wtf :confused:

Hibster
16-03-2010, 09:30 PM
I'll be supporting England 100%. Born in Scotland of a Scottish mother and English father, so I'm BRITISH.

I think Antifa Hibs got it bang on - first time for everything I suppose! :greengrin

Its not racist in a million years the banter between the home countries - its nationalist certainly but not even close to being racist given we're the same bloody race! FWIW banter is brilliant, I just think this constant 'anyone but England' crap just makes Scotland look like some parochial shortbread-tin parody of itself - kinda like a Mel Gibson vision of Scotland...

Other posters have noted how the English get behind us when we're playing anyone else. They seem to have got the right idea - banter when playing us, support when not. Can't for the life of me understand those up here who can't do the same.

Do they? I've certainly never found that to be the case, at least not with people who actually follow football. Last time I watched a Scotland game in England I was in a packed pub in Durham that, to a man, absolutely erupted when Norway scored against us, followed by an onslought of 'you jock *****' being aimed at the TV. Far worse than anything I've witnessed vice versa in a Scottish pub (where I've usually found it to be about 50-50 when an England game is on)

Maybe you've lived in England so you have your own experiences, but if you're just going by the myth peddled by the media that England always support Scotland but we never suport them - its rubbish. When it comes to football they dislike us every bit as much as we dislike them. maybe ever more

Vince White
16-03-2010, 10:08 PM
Do they? I've certainly never found that to be the case, at least not with people who actually follow football. Last time I watched a Scotland game in England I was in a packed pub in Durham that, to a man, absolutely erupted when Norway scored against us, followed by an onslought of 'you jock *****' being aimed at the TV. Far worse than anything I've witnessed vice versa in a Scottish pub (where I've usually found it to be about 50-50 when an England game is on)

Maybe you've lived in England so you have your own experiences, but if you're just going by the myth peddled by the media that England always support Scotland but we never suport them - its rubbish. When it comes to football they dislike us every bit as much as we dislike them. maybe ever more

Sorry Hibster I have to pull you up on those claims. Neither are true.

seanraff07
16-03-2010, 10:18 PM
I'll just not be supporting England cause i can't stand them.:greengrin

Hibster
16-03-2010, 10:18 PM
Sorry Hibster I have to pull you up on those claims. Neither are true.

yeah proably not, but I'm just basing it on my own experiences. When I've watched England games in pubs in Edinburgh its been at least 50-50, maybe even more supporting England. I remember vividly watching the game England went out to Portugal in Euro 2004 in a packed pub in Broughton St and about 90% of the pub was supporting England. it was bizarre

as for England disliking us as much as much as we dislike them - ok maybe you get more extreme examples of anti-Englishness in Scotland than vice versa, but generally yeah, I reckon dislike for each other is about equal. all the English people I know who are into football love to see Scotland lose

gogsy
16-03-2010, 10:51 PM
I don't get this argument. Nobody's 'force feeding' us anything. Just switch the TV off if there's something on you don't want to watch. It's your choice.

Thing is for all that we moan about the English games being shown in Scotland and how much we hate the English commentators the irony is that many of Scotland's city centre pubs will be full to bursting with Scots wanting to watch the England games come the World Cup. Yes, most will be there to cheer on whoever England are playing, but it's a slightly desperate obsession IMHO. Can you imagine English pubs filling up with England fans cheering on whoever Scotland are playing? Never happens and never will happen because the hatred is pretty much all one way.

The point is, I don't want to switch off the TV - I want to watch the football but there is no choice. I would prefer to have a more neutral commentary than suffer the usual English arrogance. In fact I remember turning the sound right down at the last world cup! It's unbearable and wouldn't happen the other way round.

allmodcons
16-03-2010, 10:55 PM
Read your own post please - where does it say SOME people??

"What really annoys me is the attitude of Scottish people supporting England." Your post! So what do you mean then - this or that?



You've taken a single line out of Hanian Hibs post and, for me, are misrepresenting what he was saying. Taking the post as whole it's pretty clear he was having a go at the condescending nature of some Scots who support England and think that anyone who doesn't back them is either racist or xenophobic.

What's your problem with the omission of the word 'some'.

I could just as easily argue that he omitted the word 'all'.

Hainan Hibs
16-03-2010, 11:45 PM
Read your own post please - where does it say SOME people??

"What really annoys me is the attitude of Scottish people supporting England." Your post! So what do you mean then - this or that?

Jeezo. I said people. The general use of the word people. If I'd meant every person I would've said all people or every person. I wasn't thinking I be pulled up for a left out word. And the part you quoted was saying that I didn't care if Scottish people supported England. I honestly couldn't care less because it's pretty pathetic and weird to get worked up about that. However some of the posts on .net and newspaper articles seem to come over in a patronising way.


I, for my part, have written several times that not wanting "England" to win is not in itself racist UNLESS you (or anyone else naturally) do it all the time and whatever England are involved in just because it's England - irrespective or game, tournament, importance or relevance to Scotland etc. If it's based solely on race it's racist: simple concept. No point in comparing it with rivalry and Hearts - they're not a race of people.

Well I'm probably considered racist then. I like to see England beat because they are our rivals (we're not theirs I know) and I can have a bit of banter with my English mates. I'll rub it in when they get gubbed, and they can hit back with "at least we were there". They don't see it as racist, they see it as banter because we all know I don't have any hatred or actual bad feelings towards them or England.


The "waving smiley" was not meant to put "you in your place" it was just intended as a friendly farewell as I was 'out of here' - as I wrote. If it has some sinister connotation for you then maybe you should consider the chips on your shoulder after all?

I don't know what the obsession is with me having chips on my shoulder. My first post was about the attitude of some people who try to come across all high and mighty because they are supporting England. I want to see them gubbed for the reasons I stated and so I can have a bit of banter with English mates and I can see Ian Wright nearly greet on tv again. Nothing to get wound up by.

Manxhibs
16-03-2010, 11:55 PM
Having lived among England fans for 10 years now and haven taken a barrage of abuse about Scottish football and Scots in general, I will 100% be wanting ABE.

HibbyAndy
17-03-2010, 12:00 AM
With ersholes like Rooney and Terry in the team? Anyone bar England will do me.

PeeJay
17-03-2010, 06:26 AM
You've taken a single line out of Hanian Hibs post and, for me, are misrepresenting what he was saying. Taking the post as whole it's pretty clear he was having a go at the condescending nature of some Scots who support England and think that anyone who doesn't back them is either racist or xenophobic.

What's your problem with the omission of the word 'some'.

I could just as easily argue that he omitted the word 'all'.

No, I'm not misrepresenting Hanian Hibs, it may be that he is misrepresenting himself - "some" is not all inclusive - it's a major ommission in his opening line - if "some" had been where it ought to have been in the sentence, if that's what was actually meant, then I wouldn't have responded as I did, because he wouldn't have been referring to the attitude of everyone who is Scottish, but just particular Scottish fans. Throws a whole different complexion on the affair, hardly a slight or subtle difference, is it? Ommitting "all as you suggest is irrelevant, the adjective Scottish suffices, surely?

Mag7
17-03-2010, 08:52 AM
With ersholes like Rooney and Terry in the team? Anyone bar England will do me.

Terry's an erse, but Rooney? You gotta love him surely? Fantastic player to watch and a decent lad too.

Vince White
17-03-2010, 09:44 AM
Terry's an erse, but Rooney? You gotta love him surely? Fantastic player to watch and a decent lad too.

:agree: One of the best players in the world at present IMHO

Bad Martini
17-03-2010, 12:15 PM
Why must we all adore Rooney like?

Is he Messi? Is he Brazilian with samba like flair?

He's scoring a lot of goals in the English Premiership...he makes plenty money doing so. Fair enough. Many English Premiership sides are sheite this year and at best, inconsistent. He IS doing well.

He is not, the messiah.

And as for supporting him, John Terry or England - why?

When Scotland depart the competition for me (and most Scots following the National side), the competition ceases to have any meaning whatsoever as we, cannot do anything with it.

Now, reverse positions, does anyone recall the mass support coming from the entire "UK" (and England, who are part of the "UK") when Scotland qualified and England didn't? I grant ye, it was a long time ago but did this happen? Were they out in teh streets of London adorning a Saltire or even a Union Flag and shouting "MON THE SCOTS" - "DO IT FOR LIZZIE" ... were they ****. And neither should they have been.

We arent talking about joining collective resources here and fighting a war or such like. We are talking about competitive sport which, when I last checked, did work in such a way that, when YOUR team is out, you pick some other team in the pursuit of glory?

Nope. When Hibs leave a competition, for me, it's over. When Scotland leaves a competition, same rules apply. I'm no about to actively give a toss about anyone when my teams aren't in there....granted, some folk take it too far and actively follow other nations/teams but that's to be expected and how many Hibs fans would follow Hearts or another "local" team (and England when I last checked are our "neighbours" and thus, geographically "local" to Scotland).

Aye.

ABE all the same :greengrin

Alex B
17-03-2010, 12:49 PM
Why must we all adore Rooney like?

Is he Messi? Is he Brazilian with samba like flair?

He's scoring a lot of goals in the English Premiership...he makes plenty money doing so. Fair enough. Many English Premiership sides are sheite this year and at best, inconsistent. He IS doing well.

He is not, the messiah.

And as for supporting him, John Terry or England - why?

When Scotland depart the competition for me (and most Scots following the National side), the competition ceases to have any meaning whatsoever as we, cannot do anything with it.

Now, reverse positions, does anyone recall the mass support coming from the entire "UK" (and England, who are part of the "UK") when Scotland qualified and England didn't? I grant ye, it was a long time ago but did this happen? Were they out in teh streets of London adorning a Saltire or even a Union Flag and shouting "MON THE SCOTS" - "DO IT FOR LIZZIE" ... were they ****. And neither should they have been.

We arent talking about joining collective resources here and fighting a war or such like. We are talking about competitive sport which, when I last checked, did work in such a way that, when YOUR team is out, you pick some other team in the pursuit of glory?

Nope. When Hibs leave a competition, for me, it's over. When Scotland leaves a competition, same rules apply. I'm no about to actively give a toss about anyone when my teams aren't in there....granted, some folk take it too far and actively follow other nations/teams but that's to be expected and how many Hibs fans would follow Hearts or another "local" team (and England when I last checked are our "neighbours" and thus, geographically "local" to Scotland).

Aye.

ABE all the same :greengrin

No, way before my time but my dad tells me we did our level best to big ourselves up as potential world cup winners and fell flatter on our faces than England have ever done :wink:

Alex B
17-03-2010, 12:50 PM
Why must we all adore Rooney like?

Is he Messi? Is he Brazilian with samba like flair?

He's scoring a lot of goals in the English Premiership...he makes plenty money doing so. Fair enough. Many English Premiership sides are sheite this year and at best, inconsistent. He IS doing well.

He is not, the messiah.

And as for supporting him, John Terry or England - why?

When Scotland depart the competition for me (and most Scots following the National side), the competition ceases to have any meaning whatsoever as we, cannot do anything with it.

Now, reverse positions, does anyone recall the mass support coming from the entire "UK" (and England, who are part of the "UK") when Scotland qualified and England didn't? I grant ye, it was a long time ago but did this happen? Were they out in teh streets of London adorning a Saltire or even a Union Flag and shouting "MON THE SCOTS" - "DO IT FOR LIZZIE" ... were they ****. And neither should they have been.

We arent talking about joining collective resources here and fighting a war or such like. We are talking about competitive sport which, when I last checked, did work in such a way that, when YOUR team is out, you pick some other team in the pursuit of glory?

Nope. When Hibs leave a competition, for me, it's over. When Scotland leaves a competition, same rules apply. I'm no about to actively give a toss about anyone when my teams aren't in there....granted, some folk take it too far and actively follow other nations/teams but that's to be expected and how many Hibs fans would follow Hearts or another "local" team (and England when I last checked are our "neighbours" and thus, geographically "local" to Scotland).

Aye.

ABE all the same :greengrin

Nobody can touch Messi when he's on song but English or not there ain't many finer players in the world right now than Rooney. The boy has it all and consistency to boot.

Vince White
17-03-2010, 01:09 PM
Why must we all adore Rooney like?

Is he Messi? Is he Brazilian with samba like flair?

He's scoring a lot of goals in the English Premiership...he makes plenty money doing so. Fair enough. Many English Premiership sides are sheite this year and at best, inconsistent. He IS doing well.

He is not, the messiah.

And as for supporting him, John Terry or England - why?

When Scotland depart the competition for me (and most Scots following the National side), the competition ceases to have any meaning whatsoever as we, cannot do anything with it.

Now, reverse positions, does anyone recall the mass support coming from the entire "UK" (and England, who are part of the "UK") when Scotland qualified and England didn't? I grant ye, it was a long time ago but did this happen? Were they out in teh streets of London adorning a Saltire or even a Union Flag and shouting "MON THE SCOTS" - "DO IT FOR LIZZIE" ... were they ****. And neither should they have been.

We arent talking about joining collective resources here and fighting a war or such like. We are talking about competitive sport which, when I last checked, did work in such a way that, when YOUR team is out, you pick some other team in the pursuit of glory?

Nope. When Hibs leave a competition, for me, it's over. When Scotland leaves a competition, same rules apply. I'm no about to actively give a toss about anyone when my teams aren't in there....granted, some folk take it too far and actively follow other nations/teams but that's to be expected and how many Hibs fans would follow Hearts or another "local" team (and England when I last checked are our "neighbours" and thus, geographically "local" to Scotland).

Aye.

ABE all the same :greengrin

We might not have been out in the streets with Saltires, but I certainly remember Scotland getting plenty of nationwide coverage, especially in 78, as they were very much seen as the UK's representatives in the World Cup. In fact they were probably over-hyped and started to believe they were better than they were.

In saying that, Scotland had some terrific players at that time and could have gone further in the competition if they'd been better managed IMHO. IIRC Willie Ormond was a little over-cautious in 74 but nevertheless emerged unbeaten, while nobody who was around at the time will ever forget poor old Ally McLeod holding his head in his hands as it all unravelled horribly in front of him. I wonder if Jock Stein had come in a few years earlier he might have taken you through that group stage.

Scouse Hibee
17-03-2010, 01:30 PM
Got my ABE (ALL BEHOLD ENGLAND) shirt today and will be supporting the Mighty England at the World Cup. Let the Jocks wallow in their self pity and dress it up- It's the English Media/History/1966/ :blah::blah:.

Who gives a flying **** what, when where or why, Scotland are not going to the World Cup. England are, so get it right up yer and stop yer moanin/greetin whingin and support who the **** you like. We don't need your support we've got plenty of our own

:singing: GOD SAVE OUR GRACIOUS QUEEN

:singing: ENGERLAND ENGERLAND ENGERLAND

joe breezy
17-03-2010, 01:41 PM
This is a competition which involves seperate football nations. My nation is not competing so why should I support another because it is a close neighbour? I watch the tournament as a football spectacle. As far as the winner is concerned my major concern with England winning it is that the 66 obsession would be redoubled no doubt to the end of time.

I find football a bit dull if I'm not rooting for a team. If I was watching any game I have to want someone to win for it be more enjoyable.

joe breezy
17-03-2010, 01:43 PM
Why must we all adore Rooney like?

Is he Messi? Is he Brazilian with samba like flair?

He's scoring a lot of goals in the English Premiership...he makes plenty money doing so. Fair enough. Many English Premiership sides are sheite this year and at best, inconsistent. He IS doing well.

He is not, the messiah.

Aye.

ABE all the same :greengrin

I think Ronney is brilliant and if I was a manager right now may well prefer him in my team than Messi

allmodcons
17-03-2010, 03:19 PM
No, I'm not misrepresenting Hanian Hibs, it may be that he is misrepresenting himself - "some" is not all inclusive - it's a major ommission in his opening line - if "some" had been where it ought to have been in the sentence, if that's what was actually meant, then I wouldn't have responded as I did, because he wouldn't have been referring to the attitude of everyone who is Scottish, but just particular Scottish fans. Throws a whole different complexion on the affair, hardly a slight or subtle difference, is it? Ommitting "all as you suggest is irrelevant, the adjective Scottish suffices, surely?

I think you'll find that was what he meant and you overreacted by not giving him the 'benefit of the doubt'.

As for racism or 'chips on shoulders' this is what usually gets thrown at anyone suggesting they're not going to support our dominant neighbour.

Perhaps he should have said 'those Scottish' but, nonetheless, I still think you missed the point he was making and overreacted.

Owain_1987
17-03-2010, 03:45 PM
This is such a stupid argument I support Scotland and Hibs why do I need want another team to do well. I hate England Football team as much as I hate the yams and the old firm. To me it is about football and I hate them so want them to lose. I would like see Brazil or Spain win the world cup not because I support them but because they play the best football.

Hainan Hibs
17-03-2010, 05:32 PM
No, I'm not misrepresenting Hanian Hibs, it may be that he is misrepresenting himself - "some" is not all inclusive - it's a major ommission in his opening line - if "some" had been where it ought to have been in the sentence, if that's what was actually meant, then I wouldn't have responded as I did, because he wouldn't have been referring to the attitude of everyone who is Scottish, but just particular Scottish fans. Throws a whole different complexion on the affair, hardly a slight or subtle difference, is it? Ommitting "all as you suggest is irrelevant, the adjective Scottish suffices, surely?

I sugggest you get laid and don't take what you read on a website so seriously.

Vince White
17-03-2010, 06:23 PM
Nobody can touch Messi when he's on song but English or not there ain't many finer players in the world right now than Rooney. The boy has it all and consistency to boot.

There are some players who get respect from fans everywhere no matter what club or country they play for. In Scotland guys like Davie Cooper, Brian Laudrup were, I think, the likeable face of the Huns. I think Rooney will go on to become one of those players who commands such special respect, bit like Ryan Giggs before him.

DoonTheSlope
17-03-2010, 07:54 PM
A colleague at work once told me ''If Ingerland were playing Afganistan I would want Osama Bin Laden to score a hatrick''.

Now while that could be a bit heavy the reality is most Scots rightly or wrongly will support any team that is playing against England, it's called football rivalry.

Most people on this site would not support Hearts against anybody else, Scotland England is no different and I also hold that view.

However some of my closest friends are English but that's football for you!!

Hibercelona
17-03-2010, 08:09 PM
If England were ever to play Germany in the finals again...... I would put on a Nazi sash and sing the Horst-Wessel song.














Well no quite... But you get the jest. :wink:

Mag7
17-03-2010, 09:34 PM
There are some players who get respect from fans everywhere no matter what club or country they play for. In Scotland guys like Davie Cooper, Brian Laudrup were, I think, the likeable face of the Huns. I think Rooney will go on to become one of those players who commands such special respect, bit like Ryan Giggs before him.

Agree with you on that one :agree:

FifeSpireite
17-03-2010, 11:30 PM
This is a debate that cannot be ended. I'm English and I live in Fife. Im actually going to South Africa in the summer, my 3rd World Cup. Hibs are my team in Scotland (Chesterfield back home).

I really dont think it is an issue for Scots to want England to get beat. To the vast majority of fans it is how it should be. The reasons for our complicated relationship are many and varied. Personally Id like the BBC to put the media argument to bed by having Scottish pundits and commentators on England games. I could still watch our patriots (Hansen, O'Neill etc) via Sky.

I've got to be honest and say that Scotland dont register to high on my international rivalry list. Partly because Ive always supported Scotland providing you're not playing us. I remember being sad when you didnt make it thorugh in 1982 whn I was 10. Argentina do it for me and we were landlocked against them and spoke Spanish I wouldn't want them to win either. I cant stomach Hearts either. Its rivalry not racism.

One thing I must finish on though. Much as I appreciate what those lads did in 1966 Im heartily sick and tired of it being dredged up whenever possible (Tyldesley, Motson, Im looking at you). But I've never heard a Scottish supporter saying the same as me about 1967.

Vince White
18-03-2010, 10:09 AM
This is a debate that cannot be ended. I'm English and I live in Fife. Im actually going to South Africa in the summer, my 3rd World Cup. Hibs are my team in Scotland (Chesterfield back home).

I really dont think it is an issue for Scots to want England to get beat. To the vast majority of fans it is how it should be. The reasons for our complicated relationship are many and varied. Personally Id like the BBC to put the media argument to bed by having Scottish pundits and commentators on England games. I could still watch our patriots (Hansen, O'Neill etc) via Sky.

I've got to be honest and say that Scotland dont register to high on my international rivalry list. Partly because Ive always supported Scotland providing you're not playing us. I remember being sad when you didnt make it thorugh in 1982 whn I was 10. Argentina do it for me and we were landlocked against them and spoke Spanish I wouldn't want them to win either. I cant stomach Hearts either. Its rivalry not racism.

One thing I must finish on though. Much as I appreciate what those lads did in 1966 Im heartily sick and tired of it being dredged up whenever possible (Tyldesley, Motson, Im looking at you). But I've never heard a Scottish supporter saying the same as me about 1967.

That's it for me too. Seems quite a few on here don't really believe it but there are plenty English football fans who feel this way.

PeeJay
18-03-2010, 10:31 AM
I sugggest you get laid and don't take what you read on a website so seriously.

Ah, nothing like "losing" an argument to entice one to resort to the old chestnuts, is there? Assuming what you wrote this time is what you meant? :greengrin (friendly smiley - no sinister connotation intended!)

New Corrie
18-03-2010, 11:21 AM
It's odd how people can justify their hatred of a country just because of a couple of football commentators. We all know the real reason, and that's basically because the Scots hate everything (except drugs, drink, violence and pies). We even have a political party whose very fibre is built on hating the English!

My main reason for not wanting England to win the WC is their fans and not the media. Those stereotypiocal Northern twats that you see in these godforsaken chav holiday resorts...Nathan and Darryl with their Barnsley away tops and British Bulldog tattoos on their legs, swaggering about Benidorm:grr: Add to that my hatred for Scousers, John Terry, Leeds United and Gary Lineker.

Scouse Hibee
18-03-2010, 01:26 PM
It's odd how people can justify their hatred of a country just because of a couple of football commentators. We all know the real reason, and that's basically because the Scots hate everything (except drugs, drink, violence and pies). We even have a political party whose very fibre is built on hating the English!

My main reason for not wanting England to win the WC is their fans and not the media. Those stereotypiocal Northern twats that you see in these godforsaken chav holiday resorts...Nathan and Darryl with their Barnsley away tops and British Bulldog tattoos on their legs, swaggering about Benidorm:grr: Add to that my hatred for Scousers, John Terry, Leeds United and Gary Lineker.

:boo hoo::rolleyes: There,there let it all out, tell the nice man what those horrible scousers have done to you diddums.

seanraff07
18-03-2010, 06:33 PM
Terry's an erse, but Rooney? You gotta love him surely? Fantastic player to watch and a decent lad too.

No doubt that he's a great player and in very decent form at the moment but surely you've got to hate him, no?

Vince White
18-03-2010, 08:56 PM
No doubt that he's a great player and in very decent form at the moment but surely you've got to hate him, no?

Not if you're a Man U fan you don't :wink: As I said I think Wayne Rooney will be one of those players who cuts across club/country loyalties due to his outstanding ability. I could see why Liverpool, Everton and Man City fans would hate him but otherwise I think most respect the fact he's the top player in the country (except for maybe Bobby Zamora after tonight's display for Fulham!)

Brando7
19-03-2010, 01:25 AM
the picture says it all really :greengrin


https://www.weetartanshop.ca/store/images/scotland%20vs%20england%20shirt.jpg

seanraff07
19-03-2010, 02:42 PM
Not if you're a Man U fan you don't :wink: As I said I think Wayne Rooney will be one of those players who cuts across club/country loyalties due to his outstanding ability. I could see why Liverpool, Everton and Man City fans would hate him but otherwise I think most respect the fact he's the top player in the country (except for maybe Bobby Zamora after tonight's display for Fulham!)

I'm not a Man U fan, it's not that i don't like Rooney himself but it's all the fuss made about him by commentators that does my ead in, they praise him even when he isn't doing so well, that's why i don't like to see him doing well, they're like 'oh and that's aother header'.. i doubt they'd say that about any other player.