6,683 crowd at Tannadice

[noseyhibby]

This is embarassing for Scottish football. A paltry crowd of 6,683 for a potential euro-slot, 6 pointer match. I thought our own crowd of 10,000+ yesterday was poor, but The Arabs and jambos clash takes the biscuit. Dundee United should not be competing with ourselves (financially or otherwise) with these dismal figures.:bitchy:

[Reaper]

This is embarassing for Scottish football. A paltry crowd of 6,683 for a potential euro-slot, 6 pointer match. I thought our own crowd of 10,000+ yesterday was poor, but The Arabs and jambos clash takes the biscuit. Dundee United should not be competing with ourselves (financially or otherwise) with these dismal figures.:bitchy:

I've just text a Jambo mate the same. At least Hearts get half decent home crowd. Should be us and them fighting for 3rd every year with the odd challenge from outwith.

[Salsa]

I think all of the SPL should be ashemed. Most clubs in the SPL including Hibs have been consistently poor in attendaces this eason. However it is the likes of Arabs, Well Hearts And Hibs that should be getting at least 12-13K a game with their fanbase/good form.

[greenlex]

I think all of the SPL should be ashemed. Most clubs in the SPL including Hibs have been consistently poor in attendaces this eason. However it is the likes of Arabs, Well Hearts And Hibs that should be getting at least 12-13K a game with their fanbase/good form.
Slaver. Look at Hibs average then tell me what your point is.

[PaulSmith]

I'll draw your attention to the Accies V Sheep attendance yesterday, 2300.

[iwasthere1972]

This is embarassing for Scottish football. A paltry crowd of 6,683 for a potential euro-slot, 6 pointer match. I thought our own crowd of 10,000+ yesterday was poor, but The Arabs and jambos clash takes the biscuit. Dundee United should not be competing with ourselves (financially or otherwise) with these dismal figures.:bitchy:

Come on now this is the equivalent of Nade calling someone fat. :wink:

[Salsa]

Slaver. Look at Hibs average then tell me what your point is.
This is the league table in terms of attendace taken from football365.com

Rangers av - 47K
Celtic AV - 50K
Hearts AV- 14K
Hibs av - 12K
Aberdeen av- 11K
United av- 7K
then its the rest.
See here http://stats.football365.com/dom/SCO/PR/attend.html

Embarrasing stuff. Without bringing the argument of wether or not Hearts count all their ST's there will only ever be a max of 2K ST holders that do not atten per game. Is that a fair assumption?

[steve75]

Eng pop - 60mill
Scot pop - 5mill

Eng league teams - 92
Scot league teams - 42

they have 12 people for ever 1 of ours and roughly twice the teams.

so 6,800 is roughly a 40000 attendance in England terms(probably more like 25 if worked out to a fine point). And we're averaging a 70,000(obviously lower if worked out) attendance.

But with rantic takin 300,000+ each the percentage of people going to games must be pretty high in scotland.

Ok, I know this is very very far from an exact science, and in England ever their conference and below teams draw reasonable crowds. But I think scottish football is reasonably supported, and if the glory hunters went and supported a local team it wouldn't look so bad.

[greenlex]

This is the league table in terms of attendace taken from football365.com
1Rangers (1)15710683503204737950444
93.9%

2Celtic (2)13655661585005043560832
82.9%

3Heart of Midlothian (6)13187063167621438918008
79.9%

4Falkirk (12)1266700704955587576
73.3%

5Hibernian (3)15182756169491218417500
69.6%


6Hamilton Academical (11)1341963534332285300
60.9%

7Dundee United (4)139804011098754214209
53.0%

8Aberdeen (7)14159923168031142322199
51.4%

9St Johnstone (8)12607017807505810673
47.3%

10Motherwell (5)14770279355550213742
40.0%

11St Mirren (10)14618226164441611125
39.6%

12Kilmarnock (9)147932110310566618128
31.2%
Is the percentage a percentage of capacity or what? What does that mean? What if you take out non attending season ticket holders from those figures? They also include a skewed attendence at Falkirk as they have had the Old Firm visit more. Hamilton also above Dundee utd. I very much doubt that.

[Salsa]

Is the percentage a percentage of capacity or what? What does that mean? What if you take out non attending season ticket holders from those figures? They also include a skewed attendence at Falkirk as they have had the Old Firm visit more. Hamilton also above Dundee utd. I very much doubt that.
It is a percentage of capacity yes. And if you have a look at the editied post and the link you will see the table. It never worked when I originally pasted it. As you can see!

[greenlex]

This is the league table in terms of attendace taken from football365.com

Rangers av - 47K
Celtic AV - 50K
Hearts AV- 14K
Hibs av - 12K
Aberdeen av- 11K
United av- 7K
then its the rest.
See here http://stats.football365.com/dom/SCO/PR/attend.html

Embarrasing stuff. Without bringing the argument of wether or not Hearts count all their ST's there will only ever be a max of 2K ST holders that do not atten per game. Is that a fair assumption?
See you did a quick edit there. If hearts didnt more or less give away tickets to kids I reckon it would be even further down. Not to mention the absent seasons.

[seanraff07]

I know their not really contending for anything apart from survival but Hamilton v Aberdeen yesterday had a crowd of just 2,030.. nearly as bad as Hamilton v Hearts but that was 29 less.:faf:

[Salsa]

See you did a quick edit there. If hearts didnt more or less give away tickets to kids I reckon it would be even further down. Not to mention the absent seasons. I'm not really aware of Hearts giving away tickets to kids but it can't be seen as a bad thing? Investing in the future fans and all that.

It's more the United and Hibs figures that are the clincher here though. Hearts could quite easily be down in 5th/6th place and with good reason. It's you guys and united battling it out for 3rd though and surely you can admit that there should eb another thousand or 2 more fans attending?

[marinello59]

I'm not really aware of Hearts giving away tickets to kids but it can't be seen as a bad thing? Investing in the future fans and all that.


Trying to make them Yams is a very very bad thing indeed.:greengrin

[marinello59]

Eng pop - 60mill
Scot pop - 5mill

Eng league teams - 92
Scot league teams - 42

they have 12 people for ever 1 of ours and roughly twice the teams.

so 6,800 is roughly a 40000 attendance in England terms(probably more like 25 if worked out to a fine point). And we're averaging a 70,000(obviously lower if worked out) attendance.

But with rantic takin 300,000+ each the percentage of people going to games must be pretty high in scotland.

Ok, I know this is very very far from an exact science, and in England ever their conference and below teams draw reasonable crowds. But I think scottish football is reasonably supported, and if the glory hunters went and supported a local team it wouldn't look so bad.

Your point is good. Based on population Scots fans attend games in relatively greater numbers than down South. God knows why though.

[iwasthere1972]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attendance_figures_at_domestic_professiona l_sports_leagues

Our attendances don't make as bad reading as some folk would have you think. Compare the SPL attendances with other countries excluding the EPL, Bundesliga and La Liga and they are too bad.

SPL 2007/08 Average 14,915
Ereddivisie 2008/09 Average 19,827
Turkish Super League 2006/07 Average 14,058
Russian Premier League 2008 Average 13,334
Swiss Super League 2007/08 Average 10,917
Norwegian Premier League 2007 Average 10,438
Portugese Liga 2008/09 Average 10,390
Danish Superliga 2008/09 Average 8,814
English Football League 1 2008/09 Average 8,324.

Admittedly you could ask what the figures would be without the OF but why? They form part of the SPL so no need to mess about with the numbers.

See it's not as bad as you think. :wink:

[johnrebus]

Hearts may average bigger crowds than us but I'm prepared to bet that we take more cash through the gates overall.

It appears that every Tynecastle attendance includes all season ticket holders - whether they actually turn up or not - and a large number of free and reduced admission tickets - not something that our Rod could ever be accused of.

Mind you, when it comes to the size of planning applications, I have to admit that we are definately the wee team

:boo hoo:

[FifeeHibee]

:yawn:Can we stop talking about crowds already?

Leave that to the stupid Jambos and their 400,000 fans! Our crowd numbers will be what they are. They'll continue to make their's up as they go along. You know- Think of a number, double it, add the season ticket holders, add the non season ticket holders, add any pets watching on telly.....The fact that anyone actually goes along to watch their weekly grind shows how stupid they really are!

We have a better team with a decent intelligent support. We try to play football. We have a good business model with costs under control. We are doing ok in the league, even if we are crap sometimes! Just give thanks that we are not as crap as them in every aspect of the game, and start getting to grips with the bigot sisters.

[col02]

I am sure that Hibs despite not having the largest average support will still be run at a close to break even point without player sales and cup runs being factored in. Can the other clubs outwith the Old firm in Scotland say the same?

[The Mook]

Eng pop - 60mill
Scot pop - 5mill

Eng league teams - 92
Scot league teams - 42

they have 12 people for ever 1 of ours and roughly twice the teams.

so 6,800 is roughly a 40000 attendance in England terms(probably more like 25 if worked out to a fine point). And we're averaging a 70,000(obviously lower if worked out) attendance.

But with rantic takin 300,000+ each the percentage of people going to games must be pretty high in scotland.

Ok, I know this is very very far from an exact science, and in England ever their conference and below teams draw reasonable crowds. But I think scottish football is reasonably supported, and if the glory hunters went and supported a local team it wouldn't look so bad.

:agree: You can look at some Conference sides like Oxford and Luton, who by attendances would actually be half way up the SPL (around D Utd or just below) but miles ahead of Hamilton for home gates.

In some ways ridiculous, but then your point re population is a fair one

[Iain G]

32,750 at the Westpac Stadium yesterday for Wellington Phoenix vs Newcastle Jets, pretty good for a non soccer nation :wink:

And still not got my voice back :greengrin

[Part/Time Supporter]

Hertz never take a big travelling support when they're on TV.

FACT

[O'Rourke3]

Hertz never take a big travelling support when they're on TV.

FACT
Hard to see any fans today - was there 1 supporter bus :dunno:

[seanraff07]

Hertz never take a big travelling support when they're on TV.

FACT

Very true, they might have a better home support but their away suport is awful compared to ours, and we might not be incredibly noisy at some away games but you never hear a peep from them when it's on tv.

[Bostonhibby]

Hertz never take a big travelling support when they're on TV.

FACT

:agree:Big clubs, huge telly's, its what they do. Sometimes they nick the telly's.

My Yam brother in law watched it in the golf club "as usual" - his phrase, not mine. Only away game he's been to in the last 2 seasons is Easter Road. Once.

[Bostonhibby]

406,683! How did they all get in?

[The Old Brigade]

Eng pop - 60mill
Scot pop - 5mill

Eng league teams - 92
Scot league teams - 42

they have 12 people for ever 1 of ours and roughly twice the teams.

so 6,800 is roughly a 40000 attendance in England terms(probably more like 25 if worked out to a fine point). And we're averaging a 70,000(obviously lower if worked out) attendance.

But with rantic takin 300,000+ each the percentage of people going to games must be pretty high in scotland.

Ok, I know this is very very far from an exact science, and in England ever their conference and below teams draw reasonable crowds. But I think scottish football is reasonably supported, and if the glory hunters went and supported a local team it wouldn't look so bad.

Agree with your analysis, also have to remember that an estimated 40,000 watch junior football every week in Scotland, that is probably another 1m fans over a season. But think Edinburgh crowds could be better (no junior teams here also and OF glory hunters not really that big a factor)- although they are much more healthy now than in last 1980s/90s. And may 3rg tier clubs in England get <5000 crowds quite often, Leeds and Norwcich are not typical.

Having been to Tynecastle a few times John Rebus, have never doubted the authenticity of the published figure btw.

[Antifa Hibs]

I used to have a go at ****** attendences but the fact is Scottish football is to *** dear. Today would've cost a Hertz fan about £40 on travel and admission. £40 to watch a game thats on tele. £40 to watch a game that has a 99% chance of being poor quality and a complete borefest. £40 to sit down with a few hundred moany barstewards who's only noise is slagging their own players. £40 to have a steward or polis breathing doon yer throat for calling Conway a t0sser, giving some Dundee tramp the V's or having a sly fag at half-time.

Let's face it, there is next to no fun at fitba these days. Quality is rank rotten for the price we pay, the terraces are dull non-events aswell. Majority of away supports will be made up of folk who go out of habit as opposed to enjoyment. This season I think I have walked out of 3 away games and thought that was enjoyable, Rangers, Celtic and Aberdeen away, the rest despite getting a result were pretty boring, yet I'm always there, out of habit more than anything.

Slash the prices across the board. Give the supports a bit freedom and allow them to self-police, maybe get some cheap transport in there aswell and crowds would increase.

Check out Germany, thee perfect model for football clubs to follow. Away games are generally about €17 and alot of clubs chuck in free travel with that by fitba special or coaches. Supporters can choose to stand on a terrace with like minded people or sit in comfort in nuetral sections again with like minded people. Fans have a bit freedom, they can have a pint or a sly fag, they can take flags with them, call the ref a prick and oppossing players fat barstewards. Compare that to here where you pay top dollar, treated as a potential criminal if you sing, have a bit banter with oppossing fans, flags confiscated etc, basically pay your money, sit down and shut up and leave quietely without any fuss.

Scottish fitba is dying on its erse, fans leaving in their droves and no-one in power seems to give a ****** or care about it.

And before having a go at other supports look at ours, 3rd the majority of the season and our home support in IMO has been nothing short of ******!

[HibbyAndy]

Ten points behind Hibernian. GIFRU Every pubteamer.
Your team is a DISGRACE.


FACT.

[jgl07]

I've just text a Jambo mate the same. At least Hearts get half decent home crowd. Should be us and them fighting for 3rd every year with the odd challenge from outwith.
Hearts have a decent home support but not a big as trhe attendance figures suggest.

They are giving away child's season tickets at a marginal price of £20 a season and then counting them as attending every week.

Dundee United had a higher home support than Hibs up to the early 1990s. Now they have around 60% of the Hibs support.

Aberdeen also had a much bigger home support than Hibs. Now Hibs have moved ahead.

Now Hibs (and Hearts if they could sort themselves out) should be in a difference financial league to the likes of United, Motherwell, Kilmarnock, and probably Aberdeen.

Hibs will have their stadium sorted out by the start of next season. Hearts (even if they avoid administration) face heavy spending to keep a safety certification as will Aberdeen.

If Hibs are well run on and off the field they should be able to see off the opposition (bar the OF) most years in the foreseeable future.

[down-the-slope]

I used to have a go at ****** attendences but the fact is Scottish football is to *** dear. Today would've cost a Hertz fan about £40 on travel and admission. £40 to watch a game thats on tele. £40 to watch a game that has a 99% chance of being poor quality and a complete borefest. £40 to sit down with a few hundred moany barstewards who's only noise is slagging their own players. £40 to have a steward or polis breathing doon yer throat for calling Conway a t0sser, giving some Dundee tramp the V's or having a sly fag at half-time.

Let's face it, there is next to no fun at fitba these days. Quality is rank rotten for the price we pay, the terraces are dull non-events aswell. Majority of away supports will be made up of folk who go out of habit as opposed to enjoyment. This season I think I have walked out of 3 away games and thought that was enjoyable, Rangers, Celtic and Aberdeen away, the rest despite getting a result were pretty boring, yet I'm always there, out of habit more than anything.

Slash the prices across the board. Give the supports a bit freedom and allow them to self-police, maybe get some cheap transport in there aswell and crowds would increase.

Check out Germany, thee perfect model for football clubs to follow. Away games are generally about €17 and alot of clubs chuck in free travel with that by fitba special or coaches. Supporters can choose to stand on a terrace with like minded people or sit in comfort in nuetral sections again with like minded people. Fans have a bit freedom, they can have a pint or a sly fag, they can take flags with them, call the ref a prick and oppossing players fat barstewards. Compare that to here where you pay top dollar, treated as a potential criminal if you sing, have a bit banter with oppossing fans, flags confiscated etc, basically pay your money, sit down and shut up and leave quietely without any fuss.

Scottish fitba is dying on its erse, fans leaving in their droves and no-one in power seems to give a ****** or care about it.

And before having a go at other supports look at ours, 3rd the majority of the season and our home support in IMO has been nothing short of ******!

A fair amount in there to agree with or consider...

Would also add that the joy of being a 'supporter' is rapidly deminishing due to having to endure pessimistic moaners all around.....

[johnrebus]

I used to have a go at ****** attendences but the fact is Scottish football is to *** dear. Today would've cost a Hertz fan about £40 on travel and admission. £40 to watch a game thats on tele. £40 to watch a game that has a 99% chance of being poor quality and a complete borefest. £40 to sit down with a few hundred moany barstewards who's only noise is slagging their own players. £40 to have a steward or polis breathing doon yer throat for calling Conway a t0sser, giving some Dundee tramp the V's or having a sly fag at half-time.

Let's face it, there is next to no fun at fitba these days. Quality is rank rotten for the price we pay, the terraces are dull non-events aswell. Majority of away supports will be made up of folk who go out of habit as opposed to enjoyment. This season I think I have walked out of 3 away games and thought that was enjoyable, Rangers, Celtic and Aberdeen away, the rest despite getting a result were pretty boring, yet I'm always there, out of habit more than anything.

Slash the prices across the board. Give the supports a bit freedom and allow them to self-police, maybe get some cheap transport in there aswell and crowds would increase.

Check out Germany, thee perfect model for football clubs to follow. Away games are generally about €17 and alot of clubs chuck in free travel with that by fitba special or coaches. Supporters can choose to stand on a terrace with like minded people or sit in comfort in nuetral sections again with like minded people. Fans have a bit freedom, they can have a pint or a sly fag, they can take flags with them, call the ref a prick and oppossing players fat barstewards. Compare that to here where you pay top dollar, treated as a potential criminal if you sing, have a bit banter with oppossing fans, flags confiscated etc, basically pay your money, sit down and shut up and leave quietely without any fuss.

Scottish fitba is dying on its erse, fans leaving in their droves and no-one in power seems to give a ****** or care about it.

And before having a go at other supports look at ours, 3rd the majority of the season and our home support in IMO has been nothing short of ******!


Have to agree with a lot of this.

I refuse to give my money to a number of SPL clubs eg. Celtic, Aberdeen and Dundee United due to a combined reason of feeling ripped off and abused.

Football is supposed to be about entertainment, yet the paying customers are routinely treated like sh~te.

:grr:

[jgl07]

Eng pop - 60mill
Scot pop - 5mill

Eng league teams - 92
Scot league teams - 42

they have 12 people for ever 1 of ours and roughly twice the teams.

This is a false analogy as the English Pyramid system includes many non-league teams with more support than certain SPL teams.

The Conference has an average attendance of 2,000.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

Dundee United had a higher home support than Hibs up to the early 1990s. Now they have around 60% of the Hibs support.


If Dundee Utd's crowds were better than ours it was only ever very briefly, for the odd season, even in the Jim McLean glory days there support was very poor.

[matty_f]

I used to have a go at ****** attendences but the fact is Scottish football is to *** dear. Today would've cost a Hertz fan about £40 on travel and admission. £40 to watch a game thats on tele. £40 to watch a game that has a 99% chance of being poor quality and a complete borefest. £40 to sit down with a few hundred moany barstewards who's only noise is slagging their own players. £40 to have a steward or polis breathing doon yer throat for calling Conway a t0sser, giving some Dundee tramp the V's or having a sly fag at half-time.

Let's face it, there is next to no fun at fitba these days. Quality is rank rotten for the price we pay, the terraces are dull non-events aswell. Majority of away supports will be made up of folk who go out of habit as opposed to enjoyment. This season I think I have walked out of 3 away games and thought that was enjoyable, Rangers, Celtic and Aberdeen away, the rest despite getting a result were pretty boring, yet I'm always there, out of habit more than anything.

Slash the prices across the board. Give the supports a bit freedom and allow them to self-police, maybe get some cheap transport in there aswell and crowds would increase.

Check out Germany, thee perfect model for football clubs to follow. Away games are generally about €17 and alot of clubs chuck in free travel with that by fitba special or coaches. Supporters can choose to stand on a terrace with like minded people or sit in comfort in nuetral sections again with like minded people. Fans have a bit freedom, they can have a pint or a sly fag, they can take flags with them, call the ref a prick and oppossing players fat barstewards. Compare that to here where you pay top dollar, treated as a potential criminal if you sing, have a bit banter with oppossing fans, flags confiscated etc, basically pay your money, sit down and shut up and leave quietely without any fuss.

Scottish fitba is dying on its erse, fans leaving in their droves and no-one in power seems to give a ****** or care about it.

And before having a go at other supports look at ours, 3rd the majority of the season and our home support in IMO has been nothing short of ******!

I agree with some of what you've got there, but there's no way Scottish clubs could make the games considerably cheaper than they are now without worsening the standard.

Using the German model as an example is all well and good, but they get massively more television money than we get and so can afford to have cheaper ticket prices.

And the problem with letting football fans become self policing is that there are still a fair number of people who simply cannot be trusted to do it without causing bother, even if the vast majority are 'well-behaved'.

[The_Todd]

If they can't sell their allocation for an away match across the city then they've got no hope doing so for a match in Dundee.

[Pete]

I used to have a go at ****** attendences but the fact is Scottish football is to *** dear. Today would've cost a Hertz fan about £40 on travel and admission. £40 to watch a game thats on tele. £40 to watch a game that has a 99% chance of being poor quality and a complete borefest. £40 to sit down with a few hundred moany barstewards who's only noise is slagging their own players. £40 to have a steward or polis breathing doon yer throat for calling Conway a t0sser, giving some Dundee tramp the V's or having a sly fag at half-time.

Let's face it, there is next to no fun at fitba these days. Quality is rank rotten for the price we pay, the terraces are dull non-events aswell. Majority of away supports will be made up of folk who go out of habit as opposed to enjoyment. This season I think I have walked out of 3 away games and thought that was enjoyable, Rangers, Celtic and Aberdeen away, the rest despite getting a result were pretty boring, yet I'm always there, out of habit more than anything.

Slash the prices across the board. Give the supports a bit freedom and allow them to self-police, maybe get some cheap transport in there aswell and crowds would increase.

Check out Germany, thee perfect model for football clubs to follow. Away games are generally about €17 and alot of clubs chuck in free travel with that by fitba special or coaches. Supporters can choose to stand on a terrace with like minded people or sit in comfort in nuetral sections again with like minded people. Fans have a bit freedom, they can have a pint or a sly fag, they can take flags with them, call the ref a prick and oppossing players fat barstewards. Compare that to here where you pay top dollar, treated as a potential criminal if you sing, have a bit banter with oppossing fans, flags confiscated etc, basically pay your money, sit down and shut up and leave quietely without any fuss.

Scottish fitba is dying on its erse, fans leaving in their droves and no-one in power seems to give a ****** or care about it.

And before having a go at other supports look at ours, 3rd the majority of the season and our home support in IMO has been nothing short of ******!

I agree with a lot of that.

People get hacked off with the football because it doesn't represent value for money. If prices were slashed across the board then the we might not expect so much and not feel like we've been totally conned when we see a crap game. These players are swanning about in Range rovers with luxury lifestyles so I believe I have every right to feel aggrieved if I'm paying such a high percentage of my disposable income to watch them. I might not be so aggrieved if it cost me less.
I also believe that if prices were to come down then attendances, especially away ones would increase....resulting in no detrimental effect to the quality of the squad or income recieved through the gates. People have said this has been rolled out before and failed but where? Motherwell? They simply didn't have the fan base to make it work but for a club like ours it would work. We have the people but for a lot of them it's simply too much.
How many Hibs fans do you know don't go because they simply can't afford it?
If walk-up prices were set at a maximum of £15 and ST's were priced similarly then we would probably have near capacity crowds every match. People would probably go "just out of habit" a lot more often...not because of the "product" but because it their club and it's an affordable day out.

[steve75]

This is a false analogy as the English Pyramid system includes many non-league teams with more support than certain SPL teams.

The Conference has an average attendance of 2,000.

Exactly why I said very rough, and also stated that I knew that the conference and below had quite good support. Percentage wise I'd still say we're not doing too bad.

[noseyhibby]

I agree with a lot of that.

People get hacked off with the football because it doesn't represent value for money. If prices were slashed across the board then the we might not expect so much and not feel like we've been totally conned when we see a crap game. These players are swanning about in Range rovers with luxury lifestyles so I believe I have every right to feel aggrieved if I'm paying such a high percentage of my disposable income to watch them. I might not be so aggrieved if it cost me less.
I also believe that if prices were to come down then attendances, especially away ones would increase....resulting in no detrimental effect to the quality of the squad or income recieved through the gates. People have said this has been rolled out before and failed but where? Motherwell? They simply didn't have the fan base to make it work but for a club like ours it would work. We have the people but for a lot of them it's simply too much.
How many Hibs fans do you know don't go because they simply can't afford it?
If walk-up prices were set at a maximum of £15 and ST's were priced similarly then we would probably have near capacity crowds every match. People would probably go "just out of habit" a lot more often...not because of the "product" but because it their club and it's an affordable day out.

Sound post. I agree with much of what you say. Football is just too expensive. Many fans probably want to go to ER but when they realise it's going to cost them the best part of £30, including bus fares and a pint, it's just simply too much -certainly on a regular basis. I truly believe that prices could come down significantly if the greedy administrators, managers, players and officials connected to football really wanted them to. I've said if before and I will say it again - I really hope that the whole corrupt football world implodes and collapses in on itself -and starts again, with the paying customer benefitting from realistic admission costs -say £10 to £15 max. The millions pouring into football at present should in fact help subsidise admission prices for all fans, and not pour into the pockets of jumped up mercenaries with a pair of boots, swanning about in luxury and self-importance.

[Dashing Bob S]

But the most interesting statistic that nobody seems to have picked up from the Tannadice attendance is that every one of the 564 away fans was a total *****.

[matty_f]

Sound post. I agree with much of what you say. Football is just too expensive. Many fans probably want to go to ER but when they realise it's going to cost them the best part of £30, including bus fares and a pint, it's just simply too much -certainly on a regular basis. I truly believe that prices could come down significantly if the greedy administrators, managers, players and officials connected to football really wanted them to. I've said if before and I will say it again - I really hope that the whole corrupt football world implodes and collapses in on itself -and starts again, with the paying customer benefitting from realistic admission costs -say £10 to £15 max. The millions pouring into football at present should in fact help subsidise admission prices for all fans, and not pour into the pockets of jumped up mercenaries with a pair of boots, swanning about in luxury and self-importance.

IMHO, it's the players' salaries that are the issue. The inflated salaries of players in England has a knock on effect here. In order for us to play players of the standard of Riordan, Miller, Stokes etc we have to at least get close to what decent level English clubs are offering. Where we have a slight advantage is that we're top flight, but more often than not money talks.

I don't think there's a good argument to say that cutting prices would increase crowds. A good Hibs side this season has played at least two games at £15 a pop in the cup, and the attendance has been lower than most of our league games.

I'd say that unless there's a drastic shift in the market forces which are governing players' salaries, we're going to continue to have to pay over the odds just to keep the standard that we have, unfortunately.

[Salsa]

But the most interesting statistic that nobody seems to have picked up from the Tannadice attendance is that every one of the 564 away fans was a total *****.

:faf: Fair play.

[Riordans Boots]

But the most interesting statistic that nobody seems to have picked up from the Tannadice attendance is that every one of the 564 away fans was a total *****.

:tee hee:

[poolman]

But the most interesting statistic that nobody seems to have picked up from the Tannadice attendance is thatevery one of the 564 away fans was a total *****.




:tee hee:

[Antifa Hibs]

I agree with some of what you've got there, but there's no way Scottish clubs could make the games considerably cheaper than they are now without worsening the standard.

Using the German model as an example is all well and good, but they get massively more television money than we get and so can afford to have cheaper ticket prices.

And the problem with letting football fans become self policing is that there are still a fair number of people who simply cannot be trusted to do it without causing bother, even if the vast majority are 'well-behaved'.

The standard is already utter ****** though so a slight drop in standand wouldn't be such a big deal if it meant to a big drop in prices, its not as if we are watching good football, the majority is pesh.

What is the cost of an Irish league match? Probably about €10-15, so in some instances 100% cheaper than the SPL, is the standard twice as bad, i'd hazard a guess and say no it won't be.

Also there is no incentive for punters to go these days, as I've said other than going out of habit. Clubs over Europe have deals with the local buses so ST holders get free public transport on the day of a home match as part of the season ticket deal, other clubs offer free travel to away matches as part of the away season ticket, other clubs offer free admission to U16's, offer reduced rates for the unemployed etc. Here there is next to no incentive, next to new inovation from the clubs. Nout.

[matty_f]

The standard is already utter ****** though so a slight drop in standand wouldn't be such a big deal if it meant to a big drop in prices, its not as if we are watching good football, the majority is pesh.

What is the cost of an Irish league match? Probably about €10-15, so in some instances 100% cheaper than the SPL, is the standard twice as bad, i'd hazard a guess and say no it won't be.

Also there is no incentive for punters to go these days, as I've said other than going out of habit. Clubs over Europe have deals with the local buses so ST holders get free public transport on the day of a home match as part of the season ticket deal, other clubs offer free travel to away matches as part of the away season ticket, other clubs offer free admission to U16's, offer reduced rates for the unemployed etc. Here there is next to no incentive, next to new inovation from the clubs. Nout.

I understand what you're saying but I think if the standard was to fall, crowds would fall regardless of the price.

Look at Dunfermline - their home crowds are well down on their SPL crowds, yet it's cheaper than it was then.

Clubs are already stretched financially here, and that's with ticket prices as high as they are, I'm sure they'd love to have more schemes in place to attract folk, but basic economics are a barrier.

Take Hibs for example, without the sale of players last season we'd have turned a loss, and people were wanting more investment in the team. We can't have it all ways - if we want better players it comes at a cost.

[Speedway]

The standard is already utter ****** though so a slight drop in standand wouldn't be such a big deal if it meant to a big drop in prices, its not as if we are watching good football, the majority is pesh.

What is the cost of an Irish league match? Probably about €10-15, so in some instances 100% cheaper than the SPL, is the standard twice as bad, i'd hazard a guess and say no it won't be.



50% cheaper surely?

[jgl07]

I understand what you're saying but I think if the standard was to fall, crowds would fall regardless of the price.

Look at Dunfermline - their home crowds are well down on their SPL crowds, yet it's cheaper than it was then.

Clubs are already stretched financially here, and that's with ticket prices as high as they are, I'm sure they'd love to have more schemes in place to attract folk, but basic economics are a barrier.

Hibs home crowds stood up quite well in Division One. Most of the drop was down to the loss of six home matches against Hearts and the OF and two against Aberdeen who used to bring a fair support to ER in those days.

I noticed that every match in Division One had a bigger crowd than the 2030 that attended Hamilton v Aberdeen.

[hibs0666]

But the most interesting statistic that nobody seems to have picked up from the Tannadice attendance is that every one of the 564 away fans was a total *****.

I thought that was simply a given.

[matty_f]

Our crowds were the exception to the rule, though, and not only did Hibs hold prices at the previous years' rates, we also had players of the calibre of Sauzee and Latapy at the club.

As for the point about the Irish clubs, I take it their attendances are significantly higher than ours (as in the SPL)? :dunno:

[Antifa Hibs]

Our crowds were the exception to the rule, though, and not only did Hibs hold prices at the previous years' rates, we also had players of the calibre of Sauzee and Latapy at the club.

As for the point about the Irish clubs, I take it their attendances are significantly higher than ours (as in the SPL)? :dunno:

No but you can't really compare the two seeing as football is the 3rd popular sport in Ireland compared to fitba being the most popular here.

One example though,

Aberdeen - Population 210,000
Aberdeen's average this season 11500 (I think thats bull**** TBH...)
Average ticket say £23

Groningen - Population 187,000
FC Groningen's average this season 22,000
Average ticket around €17

Smaller city yet almost double the crowd.

Cheaper tickets will increase the crowds over time....

[Part/Time Supporter]

No but you can't really compare the two seeing as football is the 3rd popular sport in Ireland compared to fitba being the most popular here.

One example though,

Aberdeen - Population 210,000
Aberdeen's average this season 11500 (I think thats bull**** TBH...)
Average ticket say £23

Groningen - Population 187,000
FC Groningen's average this season 22,000
Average ticket around €17

Smaller city yet almost double the crowd.

Cheaper tickets will increase the crowds over time....

The stronger correlation is with the standard of football. Groningen have bigger crowds now than they did even a few years ago because they have been relatively competitive in recent seasons. It also helps that they built a fine new stadium a few years back as well.

If one SPL team cut prices unilaterally they would either get relegated or go into administration within three years.

[matty_f]

No but you can't really compare the two seeing as football is the 3rd popular sport in Ireland compared to fitba being the most popular here.

One example though,

Aberdeen - Population 210,000
Aberdeen's average this season 11500 (I think thats bull**** TBH...)
Average ticket say £23

Groningen - Population 187,000
FC Groningen's average this season 22,000
Average ticket around €17

Smaller city yet almost double the crowd.

Cheaper tickets will increase the crowds over time....

How do Groningen do compared to Aberdeen for TV money? I know the Dutch football is fairly widely covered, and as it's rated the 8th best league in Europe I'd imagine that they get a significantly higher amount of income from TV rights and sponsorship than the sheep get.

In which case they can afford to drop the prices while sustaining a high standard of player, the combination of which - along with the new stadium - will allow for higher gates.

Those factors have to be comparible too, otherwise your argument holds no water.

[hibs0666]

Cheaper tickets will increase the crowds over time....

Watching football in Scotland is a pretty miserable experience at the moment. The atmosphere is utterly dire everywhere bar a handful of games a season. The crowd are detached spectators not active participants. You can't sit with your mates unless you are experienced at planning military campaigns. I could go on but you get my drift.

You can either drop the price cos the experience of going to games is dire, or you can improve the experience and keep prices the same.

I'd prefer the latter every time.

[matty_f]

Watching football in Scotland is a pretty miserable experience at the moment. The atmosphere is utterly dire everywhere bar a handful of games a season. The crowd are detached spectators not active participants. You can't sit with your mates unless you are experienced planning military campaigns. I could go on but you get my drift.

You can either drop the price cos the experience of going to games is dire, or you can improve the experience and keep prices the same.

I'd prefer the latter every time.

:agree:

[GreenBlade]

This is a false analogy as the English Pyramid system includes many non-league teams with more support than certain SPL teams.

The Conference has an average attendance of 2,000.

It's a perfect analogy! English have hundreds of Hamiltons, Forfar's, Annans etc.......

There's many teams in England would be pleased with home gates of 6000+. When I started watching Hibs we had home gates of 4000! Point
being crowds are massive in comparison today despite fans being ripped off and games live on tv. Who in their right mind would trot along to tannadice on a freezing day to pay in excess of £20.00 when the games on the telly. You lot whinging about crowds get real! The games been priced out of the range of most working people yet Hibs still get THREE times what we did in the seventies and eighties playing the same teams like Killie, Motherwell and St Johnstone. STOP yer moaning!

[Joe Baker II]

Watching football in Scotland is a pretty miserable experience at the moment. The atmosphere is utterly dire everywhere bar a handful of games a season. The crowd are detached spectators not active participants. You can't sit with your mates unless you are experienced at planning military campaigns. I could go on but you get my drift.

You can either drop the price cos the experience of going to games is dire, or you can improve the experience and keep prices the same.

I'd prefer the latter every time.

Problem is as earlier poster said correctly that cheaper admission will increase the crowds but OVER TIME, ie not neccesarily in short term, as Petrie-type chairmen instantly twist in to saying reduced prices=less money full stop - with assumption this would be a bad thing.

Would happily see either of these, though while people like Petrie run clubs can see nothing changing unless there is a mass boycott of season tikcets across Scotland. They do not care if watching a miserable experience (as ER will increasingly become for many too now East Stand gone) as effects will only be gradual, and the bulk of the effect after the have stepped down

[matty_f]

Problem is as earlier poster said correctly that cheaper admission will increase the crowds but OVER TIME, ie not neccesarily in short term, as Petrie-type chairmen instantly twist in to saying reduced prices=less money full stop - with assumption this would be a bad thing.

Would happily see either of these, though while people like Petrie run clubs can see nothing changing unless there is a mass boycott of season tikcets across Scotland. They do not care if watching a miserable experience (as ER will increasingly become for many too now East Stand gone) as effects will only be gradual, and the bulk of the effect after the have stepped down
:confused:

Where is the evidence that a drop in prices would increase crowds over time? I would have thought that if the prices dropped, and the standard with it, then there would be less likelihood of people coming back to the games than ever before.

The only way that we can get an increase in attendances through reducing ticket prices, is to be able to increase revenue from other sources, then accept (as fans) that the club won't spend that revenue on getting better players, but rather keeping the level we're at but giving subsidised tickets.

And I think Petrie has shown quite spectacularly that he's anything but short-sighted when looking at the financial side of things.

[Ozyhibby]

More people in Scotland attend football matches per head of population than any other country in Europe so its hard to argue that the pricing is much wrong.

[Removed]

More people in Scotland attend football matches per head of population than any other country in Europe so its hard to argue that the pricing is much wrong.

Really!! I am shocked at that.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Problem is as earlier poster said correctly that cheaper admission will increase the crowds but OVER TIME, ie not neccesarily in short term, as Petrie-type chairmen instantly twist in to saying reduced prices=less money full stop - with assumption this would be a bad thing.

Would happily see either of these, though while people like Petrie run clubs can see nothing changing unless there is a mass boycott of season tikcets across Scotland. They do not care if watching a miserable experience (as ER will increasingly become for many too now East Stand gone) as effects will only be gradual, and the bulk of the effect after the have stepped down

John Boyle was a fresh face a few years ago and tried reducing admission prices didn't he?

How did that turn out?

[Hibstrooper]

More people in Scotland attend football matches per head of population than any other country in Europe so its hard to argue that the pricing is much wrong.

Yes but how much of that is down to the nigh on 100k that turn up to watch Celtic & Rangers!

It pains me that I live a mere 20 miles out of Edinburgh however the majority of folk support one of the Old Firm :grr:

[Lofarl]

Thats the gloryhunter element. You ken fine well if Hibs or Hearts went on a nine in a row type of run that we would sell every ticket for every match.