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poolman
07-03-2010, 12:04 AM
http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/68973-self-loathing-the-scot-and-the-jew/

:wtf:

Big Frank
07-03-2010, 12:37 AM
The boys right.

whereswallace?
07-03-2010, 12:40 AM
Can you copy and paste it on here mate,some of us are banned from that *****hole!!:greengrin

Removed
07-03-2010, 12:41 AM
Can you copy and paste it on here mate,some of us are banned from that *****hole!!:greengrin

Have you got all night or having problems getting to sleep :greengrin

It's a looooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggggggggg g post

iwasthere1972
07-03-2010, 12:42 AM
Can you copy and paste it on here mate,some of us are banned from that *****hole!!:greengrin


It's the size of a Harry Potter novel. :agree:

Here we go

With the up-coming Scotland game and the inevitable 'Jock'-bashing threads from our resident Unionist, God Save the Queen types, I got thinking about the phenomenon of self-hatred... It is a term often used in relation to people who have been oppressed or occupied throughout history and it describes a mind-set where the people have been put down and repressed for so long that they begin to accept what is said about them as if it is normal... Kinda like a beaten wife where she starts to believe that it is her fault that she lets herself be treated in such a manner.

Just yesterday on this very site there was a comment (can't remember who from) about a Scotland U21 player (Elliot) not being as good as an England U21 Equivelant... Now on the surface of it, there is a good argument for this but if you think about it... It actually verges on self-hate or at the very least, low national self-esteem.

Okay Elliot is struggling in a poor SPL but... Does that mean that all young Scottish footballers are automatical inferior to their cousins over the border? I think not, but if you are someone who believes such a thing then answer me this, when does this dominant and superior footballing gene kick in? At what age does the Eli English player pull away from his Morlock Scottish equivelant?

I am being rather flippant about this but as an example... Would you rather have Driver or Dorrans in your Hearts side this weekend, against Dundee UTD?

You see I think it is 70% confidence and 30% natural born ability... We put ourselves down so much nowadays that other countries don't even have to do it for us anymore.

Here are a few examples of what people say about the self-hate condition... Let me know if you think this applies to percentage of us Scots...


There is little doubt that psychologically, racism is harmful to its victims. The most profound effect associated with situations of extreme degradation (such as is found under slavery or in concentration camps or in racist states like South Africa) is the acceptance by the oppressed group of the dominant group's definition of the situation. This is the phenomenon of self-hatred found, for example, in cases of Jewish anti-Semitism or in the acceptance by blacks of white aesthetic criteria of having straight hair or a light skin. Self-hatred is often accompanied by symptoms of apathy, anxiety, and depression or by forms of self-destructive escapist reactions such as alcoholism or drug addiction or, in extreme cases, by paranoid, schizophrenic or manic depressive psychoses. In such situations of extreme degradation then, the oppressed group frequently reacts in an 'intropunitive' fashion; that is, it turns its frustrations inwardly against the self or the 'in' group at large.

- from Racism And Its Effects, By Shreya Khatau, Bombay, India


<LI>Beginning with George Herbert Mead's idea of the "looking-glass self," social psychology has assumed that one's self-image derives in large part from how one is viewed by others -- family, school, and the broader society. When those views are negative, people may internalize them, resulting in lower self-esteem -- or self-hatred, as it has been called. This theory was first applied to the experience of Jews, by Sigmund Freud and Bruno Bettelheim, but it was also soon applied to the experience of African-Americans, by Gordon Allport, Frantz Fanon, Kenneth Clark, and others.

- in The Atlantic Monthly, August 1999, "Thin Ice"

<LI>Self-hate arises when the minority-group member, who takes so many of his values from the majority group, learns to think of himself in its terms. Because his group is strange in their eyes, he comes to believe himself strange. Since they look down on him, he begins to look down on himself, particularly on that which differentiates him. So, among Jews it was truly a compliment not to "look Jewish." Similarly, in the black community until recent years, the lighter one's skin, the higher one's social status was likely to be.2

- Eugene B. Borowitz, The Mask Jews Wear -- The Self-Deceptions of American Jewry, 1980

<LI>The term identity rejection is used here to denote a state of psychic imbalance in which an aspect of identity, namely the fact of one's Jewish background, is not fully integrated or accepted by the self. So defined, it may range in occurrence from apathy or total indifference to complete rejection and denial.

- Jerry V. Diller, "Identity Rejection and Reawakening in the Jewish Community", Journal of Psychology and Judaism, Vol. 5, No. 1, Fall/Winter 1980

<LI>How does one teach Jewish children that at a certain historical juncture their people were considered bacilli and eradicated like so much vermin? Can such a page of history be ingested without lacerating the Jewish self-image? No child willingly accepts membership in a community that has seemingly lost so radically. It is better to be the hero in history.

- Simon Wiesenthal Center Multimedia Learning Center Online

<LI>


How is the desire to assimilate related to 'self-hatred'?



Hannah Arendt (1970) described <A href="http://www.peacefaq.com/jews.html">the Jews of Germany as having an unrequited love affair with German culture. The tragedy for such Jews was that the culture, which they embraced so passionately, was routinely anti-semitic. The same was true for the German speaking Jews of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Those, who were enthusiastic to be culturally German, adopted many of that culture's prejudices against things Jewish. The bourgeois, assimilating Jews directed these prejudices against the ghetto Jews of the eastern Europe, the Ostjuden, who displayed overt, and shameful, characteristics of Jewishness (Weitzmann, 1987). Jokes about Jewish dress, meanness and unclean habits were common: 'dirty-Jew' jokes were to find their way into Freud's Jokes and their Relation to the Unconscious. A brittle and painful constellation of feelings was involved: the desire to be German, the separation from Jewishness, the association of Jewishness with despised traits, and a recognition that the true Germans would still see Jewishness in themselves, despite their all efforts. At its extreme, this constellation formed the basis of what has become known as 'self-hatred'

- from Freud and Dora: repressing an oppressed identity, by Michael Billig, Department of Social Sciences, University of Loughborough. Published in the British Journal of Social Psychology
The insistence shown by so many Jews in wishing themselves other than they are, in refusing to see the reasons for their common misfortune, and in being blind to the difficult splendour of a Jewish vocation, is an indication of a deep-seated spiritual malaise. These Jews will remain prisoners of the resulting contradictions so long as they refuse to accept themselves for what they are. Self-awareness and political commitment must go hand-in-hand.



...I oppose assimilation as a policy because, contrary to what its champions believe or would have us believe, it in no way brings us nearer the advent of a world-wide republic; rather does it reinforce the ethnocentrism of other peoples to the detriment of the Jews alone. Throughout the ages, and especially since the events of this century, many Jews have dreamt of escaping from the cycle of persecution-toleration. This dream the assimilationist fails to see, or seeing, denies, and remains unmoved by a natural human reaction to an intolerable threat. - Jacques Givet, "The Anti-Zionist Complex"




Now we Scots have not been independant in centuries now and we are the smaller nation of our 'union' with England... We may not have had the extermination camps of the Jews or the ethnic cleansing of some African tribes or indeed appartheid in our developed land (Well not in modern times anyway) but we have been England's poor relation in the world's eyes for so long now that I believe many of us now hate ourselves... You will see it from many of the comments over the next few days about our national football team... Some of it from non-Scottish Brits but also (far more depressingly) from a fair few Scots that like to bum-up to these folk too.


I will be getting right behind Scotland for all their football games at every level in the coming days and I will also be wanting anyone who plays England to win too... This may be parochial in some people's eyes... I however see it as a healthy footballing rivalry... Like Hearts and Hibs or something.

All i am saying is next time there is a thread about 'jocks' etc and it is full of such anti-Scottish sentiment (whether posted by a Scot or otherwise) just take a wee step back and think before you jump on the bandwagon... If you are Scottish yourelf and you join in and refer to fellow Scots as 'jocks' and want the team to lose... You are a broken person.



Controversial perhaps... But pre-emptive of all the usuall anti-Scotland threads that will be appearing all too soon. http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif

poolman
07-03-2010, 12:46 AM
2379081]Have you got all night or having problems getting to sleep :greengrin
[/B]
It's a looooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggggggggg g post


:agree:Too many pints at teatime and zzzzzz'd when I got home

now I'm wide awake :rolleyes:

whereswallace?
07-03-2010, 02:14 AM
Cheers but i saw the size of that and couldnt bring myself to read it!!

Winston Ingram
07-03-2010, 11:42 AM
http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/68973-self-loathing-the-scot-and-the-jew/

:wtf:

1 Tennants is too many Tennants :sick:

WeAreHibs
07-03-2010, 11:46 AM
That's 07 mins of my life that I'll never get back

Hibercelona
07-03-2010, 11:50 AM
That's 07 mins of my life that I'll never get back

It took me 62 minutes to read all of that. :boo hoo:

Hainan Hibs
07-03-2010, 11:59 AM
I'm going to have to say it is a good post from the Yam:jamboak:

There is a high number of people who love to put anything Scottish down. They love to say how bad we are, how the situation is so much better else were, and never miss an oppurtunity to put the boot into their own country.

Posters on here can't wait to get out the "look how great the EPL is, the SPL is ****". Aye, it probably is, but it's sad how much people actually enjoy putting the league down and saying how bad it is. They love doing it.

It is in everything, not just football. Coulthard was ***** because he never won the F1 Championship, Montgomerie was useless because he never won a major, even Andy Murray is said to be not good enough by some.

In politics, Scotland needs the Union, independence will bring the end of the universe, we'd never survive on our own. We need England. We're not good enough. I even saw once the "Scotsman" bigging up a book which suggested an independent Scotland would become a modern "Soviet satellite" state.

I used to get so angry by Scottish people being dragged in by this attitude of putting everything Scottish down. Now I find it sad and pathetic.

Hibercelona
07-03-2010, 12:08 PM
I'm going to have to say it is a good post from the Yam:jamboak:

There is a high number of people who love to put anything Scottish down. They love to say how bad we are, how the situation is so much better else were, and never miss an oppurtunity to put the boot into their own country.

Posters on here can't wait to get out the "look how great the EPL is, the SPL is ****". Aye, it probably is, but it's sad how much people actually enjoy putting the league down and saying how bad it is. They love doing it.

It is in everything, not just football. Coulthard was ***** because he never won the F1 Championship, Montgomerie was useless because he never won a major, even Andy Murray is said to be not good enough by some.

In politics, Scotland needs the Union, independence will bring the end of the universe, we'd never survive on our own. We need England. We're not good enough. I even saw once the "Scotsman" bigging up a book which suggested an independent Scotland would become a modern "Soviet satellite" state.

I used to get so angry by Scottish people being dragged in by this attitude of putting everything Scottish down. Now I find it sad and pathetic.

:agree:

Nothing will ever change though.

The lack of Scottish success has nothing to do with lack of ability, but more so to do with the lack of ambition and forward thinking.

Majority of people won't open their eyes to this though and will continue to blame other factors which will never get us anywhere.

Sick Boy
07-03-2010, 12:14 PM
:blah::blah: Who gives a f***!

YouTube - Calum Elliot Dancing Superstar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwlhD5rydNI)


Nuff said.

One punch....

--------
07-03-2010, 01:07 PM
I'm going to have to say it is a good post from the Yam:jamboak:

There is a high number of people who love to put anything Scottish down. They love to say how bad we are, how the situation is so much better else were, and never miss an oppurtunity to put the boot into their own country.

Posters on here can't wait to get out the "look how great the EPL is, the SPL is ****". Aye, it probably is, but it's sad how much people actually enjoy putting the league down and saying how bad it is. They love doing it.

It is in everything, not just football. Coulthard was ***** because he never won the F1 Championship, Montgomerie was useless because he never won a major, even Andy Murray is said to be not good enough by some.

In politics, Scotland needs the Union, independence will bring the end of the universe, we'd never survive on our own. We need England. We're not good enough. I even saw once the "Scotsman" bigging up a book which suggested an independent Scotland would become a modern "Soviet satellite" state.

I used to get so angry by Scottish people being dragged in by this attitude of putting everything Scottish down. Now I find it sad and pathetic.


And yet during the two centuries immediately following the Union, Scots made a contribution to that Union out of all proportion to their numbers - and in all sorts of dfferent areas of human endeavour.

Of course, we were all Presbyterian in those days.... :devil:

.Sean.
07-03-2010, 01:13 PM
That's not a post, it's an essay :faf:

Liking the first reply though...

''We're ***** an we know we are. ''