South Stand and the Nazi Stewards

[Fat Stu]

Sat in row S of the south lower today and stood the whole game. Much to the dis-like of the stewards and police, in fact saw 1 guy get thrown out for refusing to sit down.

If this continues in the the rest of this season and in the new east I will seriously re-consider whether or not I renew my season ticket and the people I was with today are of the same opinion.

FFS we weren't pissed staggering about and we weren't blocking anyones view. I am more than capable of standing on my own 2 feet and found the treatment by both stewards and especially the police appauling.

[PaulSmith]

Sat in row S of the south lower today and stood the whole game. Much to the dis-like of the stewards and police, in fact saw 1 guy get thrown out for refusing to sit down.

If this continues in the the rest of this season and in the new east I will seriously re-consider whether or not I renew my season ticket and the people I was with today are of the same opinion.

FFS we weren't pissed staggering about and we weren't blocking anyones view. I am more than capable of standing on my own 2 feet and found the treatment by both stewards and especially the police appauling.

Just cause you aren't able to stand in a designated seated area you'd not go back?

[hibee_girl]

One steward tried to get people to sit down at the back up the upper tier too, he gave up eventually.

[NaeTechnoHibby]

Sat in row S of the south lower today and stood the whole game. Much to the dis-like of the stewards and police, in fact saw 1 guy get thrown out for refusing to sit down.

If this continues in the the rest of this season and in the new east I will seriously re-consider whether or not I renew my season ticket and the people I was with today are of the same opinion.

FFS we weren't pissed staggering about and we weren't blocking anyones view. I am more than capable of standing on my own 2 feet and found the treatment by both stewards and especially the police appauling.

Were you at the back with others who were standing??

They looked a bit heavy handed IMO but you are going to have to choose your new seats in East and "sit in them" if your are in front of people :agree:

That's one of the reasons I think it should have been a 2 tier stand :agree:

Yer pie at half-time brigade regardless. and yer we're no going tilll it's actual half time :agree:

BTW you lot sounded great from the FFL today :thumbsup: and it shows how good the new East Stand might sound :thumbsup:

[Fat Stu]

Just cause you aren't able to stand in a designated seated area you'd not go back?


Honestly, yes. I've stood at games my whole life and specifically picked seats at the back row so i'd have no problem standing blocking anyones view.

Whilst the atmosphere may have sounded better for other stands I wasn't that impressed with it today especially when we were playing poor. I believe this was partly to do with the amount of people sitting down.

[oldbutdim]

Sat in row S of the south lower today and stood the whole game. Much to the dis-like of the stewards and police, in fact saw 1 guy get thrown out for refusing to sit down.

If this continues in the the rest of this season and in the new east I will seriously re-consider whether or not I renew my season ticket and the people I was with today are of the same opinion.

FFS we weren't pissed staggering about and we weren't blocking anyones view. I am more than capable of standing on my own 2 feet and found the treatment by both stewards and especially the police appauling.

Is row S the back row?

If so then perhaps the stewards were being a bit gung-ho.

But much as some folk may feel they are entitled to stand, if someone stood in front of me at a game, just as someone who may stand in front of me at the Opera or at the Theatre, they would quickly feel my zimmer across the back of their napper.

The situation in the East Stand where it was "tradition" is fine, but times change. One of the irritations of going to Hampden is finding some "standees" who insist on standing up and causing a sort of negative domino effect with folk having to stand up in ranks behind them. Almost makes me choke on my pandrops. Mind you - most of the time that's the very least of the disappointments at Hampden.

[Albanian Hibs]

Has anyone got any pics of the fans in the South so I can see what it looks like?

[jgl07]

Sat in row S of the south lower today and stood the whole game. Much to the dis-like of the stewards and police, in fact saw 1 guy get thrown out for refusing to sit down.

If this continues in the the rest of this season and in the new east I will seriously re-consider whether or not I renew my season ticket and the people I was with today are of the same opinion.

FFS we weren't pissed staggering about and we weren't blocking anyones view. I am more than capable of standing on my own 2 feet and found the treatment by both stewards and especially the police appauling.
What a sad git you must be.

[HibeeDaz6270]

Sat in row S of the south lower today and stood the whole game. Much to the dis-like of the stewards and police, in fact saw 1 guy get thrown out for refusing to sit down.

If this continues in the the rest of this season and in the new east I will seriously re-consider whether or not I renew my season ticket and the people I was with today are of the same opinion.

FFS we weren't pissed staggering about and we weren't blocking anyones view. I am more than capable of standing on my own 2 feet and found the treatment by both stewards and especially the police appauling.

cmon, grow up. If you want to stand then stand, but if you are asked to sit down by the police then do so. As for not going back because you cannot stand at an all seated stadium, well.....thats just rediculious.

Fans need to realise the old terracing is now gone, and look to the future! get over it.

[ronaldo7]

Honestly, yes. I've stood at games my whole life and specifically picked seats at the back row so i'd have no problem standing blocking anyones view.

Whilst the atmosphere may have sounded better for other stands I wasn't that impressed with it today especially when we were playing poor. I believe this was partly to do with the amount of people sitting down.

FFS get a grip pal. The atmosphere was crap because the game was crap. We were being outsung by a group of about 30 Killie fans in the south lower.

The East standers decanted to the South were good for the first 15 minutes and then nothing until the last 10.

FWIW we should try and get the 3 stands joining in ANY sing song, and the atmosphere will improve. The team playing better football would help too.

[Crab apple]

My 9 and 11 year olds didn't like the east because so many people stood in front of them. Provided the stewards act professionally I've no problem with them asking people to sit if they are blocking others view.

[NaeTechnoHibby]

If they want to stand, get yet tickects for the back row :agree:

[blueisthecolour]

I was going to post this a while ago and decided not to bother.

When the new stand is built, don't expect to be treated the same, things will change, standing will be a no no, when your team scores the running towards away fans to goad them will soon be stamped out, when you stand to sing you will be told to sit down and behave, you will have a brand new stand but the atmosphere will be no where near as good as it was, this is my opinion and time will tell if im correct.

[Removed]

I was going to post this a while ago and decided not to bother.

When the new stand is built, don't expect to be treated the same, things will change, standing will be a no no, when your team scores the running towards away fans to goad them will soon be stamped out, when you stand to sing you will be told to sit down and behave, you will have a brand new stand but the atmosphere will be no where near as good as it was, this is my opinion and time will tell if im correct.

The atmosphere is pish at hunbrox because you have no songs left to sing. Nothing to do with standing or sitting.

[007 Mickey Weir]

I was in row RR which was right up the back. A steward came up and asked us to sit down. We explained that we were not blocking anyones view.
He was really good about it and said that he was just following orders. He also said that he knew we would stand up again as soon as he walked away. He just smiled at us and went away. Not disturbed again. Stood the rest of the game.
I thought the fans were pretty good considering the pish that was on the pitch.
Lookin forward to the big games, think that atmosphere will be brilliant.

Wish we would all stop moaning and get behind the team.

:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:

[Future17]

FFS get a grip pal. The atmosphere was crap because the game was crap. We were being outsung by a group of about 30 Killie fans in the south lower.

The East standers decanted to the South were good for the first 15 minutes and then nothing until the last 10.

FWIW we should try and get the 3 stands joining in ANY sing song, and the atmosphere will improve. The team playing better football would help too.

Ha ha! Welcome to a football match! Yeah, let's get the team playing better, THEN we'l get all the stands singing, THEN we'd all sing for 90 minutes.

Comes back to the old argument of whether the team playing well inspires the fans to sing, whether the fans singing inspires the team to play well, or whether it should be somewhere in between.

I have no idea what the new East will be like atmosphere-wise but the bottom line is we've ripped the heart and soul of ER's atmosphere out and for the rest of this season, if we've not got the South, we've got nothing.

Kilmarnock is one thing, but if we get put alongside Hearts, Rangers, Celtic fans after the split we're going to be the 12th man, engaged in a 90 minute singing battle against folk who'll sing about anything and everything that's got nothing to do with football.

If we're not prepared to do what it takes to win that battle in the stands, the team will suffer on the pitch.

[blueisthecolour]

The atmosphere is pish at hunbrox because you have no songs left to sing. Nothing to do with standing or sitting.

That's rubbish, My mate works for stewards at several grounds and it's the same problem, if people who sit in the east think when the new stand is built it will be like old times they will be very much mistaken.

[007 Mickey Weir]

Ha ha! Welcome to a football match! Yeah, let's get the team playing better, THEN we'l get all the stands singing, THEN we'd all sing for 90 minutes.

Comes back to the old argument of whether the team playing well inspires the fans to sing, whether the fans singing inspires the team to play well, or whether it should be somewhere in between.

I have no idea what the new East will be like atmosphere-wise but the bottom line is we've ripped the heart and soul of ER's atmosphere out and for the rest of this season, if we've not got the South, we've got nothing.

Kilmarnock is one thing, but if we get put alongside Hearts, Rangers, Celtic fans after the split we're going to be the 12th man, engaged in a 90 minute singing battle against folk who'll sing about anything and everything that's got nothing to do with football.

If we're not prepared to do what it takes to win that battle in the stands, the team will suffer on the pitch.

TOTALLY agree!!!!!!!! Good post!

[The Old Brigade]

cmon, grow up. If you want to stand then stand, but if you are asked to sit down by the police then do so. As for not going back because you cannot stand at an all seated stadium, well.....thats just rediculious.

Fans need to realise the old terracing is now gone, and look to the future! get over it.

Police only got involved of because of the attitude of what the poster (hyperbole maybe) but not wrongly called Nazi stewards. No ones view was being blocked.

Sadly summed up why I will not be getting a season ticket again why O'Hagan and Pryde are involved in operations at ER and Hibs sink toward the low life level of the Tayside clubs, have already decided to give next week a miss. And not going to any games until the large bull headed steward in the South Lower standing under barrier 6 for most of the game who appeared to be a supervisor is removed from operations forthwith and this is publicly announced by Hibs.


And if posters of the intelligence of jgl7 who call people like FatStu sad gits for the opinions they have expressed see themselves as moving with the ties, they can do it without me.

Crab Apple - if you think that was professional stewarding today, I do not want to follow any club of whom you are ana ccurate sample of their supporters.

[steve75]

When you buy a ticket you agree to all the SFA, SPL rules etc. For 'health and saftey' the rule is you must sit, its pathetic to blame the stewards for doing what they are told. If asked to sit down, then sit down.

That said, I'd much prefer to stand and standing sections really need to be seriously considered by the SPL.

[Jamie]

Sat in row S of the south lower today and stood the whole game. Much to the dis-like of the stewards and police, in fact saw 1 guy get thrown out for refusing to sit down.


you'd have been around here then?

http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/data/3551/Hibs1v0Killie_6thMarch2010_58_.JPG (http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/hibs-v-kilmarnock/p30736-hibs-1-v-0-kllie.html)

http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/data/3551/Hibs1v0Killie_6thMarch2010_55_.JPG (http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/hibs-v-kilmarnock/p30733-hibs-1-v-0-kllie.html)



Has anyone got any pics of the fans in the South so I can see what it looks like?
http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/data/3551/Hibs1v0Killie_6thMarch2010_60_.JPG (http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/hibs-v-kilmarnock/p30739-hibs-1-v-0-kllie.html)
:thumbsup:

[Removed]

That's rubbish, My mate works for stewards at several grounds and it's the same problem, if people who sit in the east think when the new stand is built it will be like old times they will be very much mistaken.

So how come the atmosphere at Ibrox used to be pretty good (albeit everything we detested) but now you can just about hear a pindrop. You tell me what's changed then, because as far as I can remember you've had an all seated stadium for years.

[Frazerbob]

Police only got involved of because of the attitude of what the poster (hyperbole maybe) but not wrongly called Nazi stewards. No ones view was being blocked.

Sadly summed up why I will not be getting a season ticket again why O'Hagan and Pryde are involved in operations at ER and Hibs sink toward the low life level of the Tayside clubs, have already decided to give next week a miss. And not going to any games until the large bull headed steward in the South Lower standing under barrier 6 for most of the game who appeared to be a supervisor is removed from operations forthwith and this is publicly announced by Hibs.


And if posters of the intelligence of jgl7 who call people like FatStu sad gits for the opinions they have expressed see themselves as moving with the ties, they can do it without me.

Crab Apple - if you think that was professional stewarding today, I do not want to follow any club of whom you are ana ccurate sample of their supporters.

Let me get this right, you are going to stop going to the football because of one tube of a steward?

[Future17]

Police only got involved of because of the attitude of what the poster (hyperbole maybe) but not wrongly called Nazi stewards. No ones view was being blocked.

Sadly summed up why I will not be getting a season ticket again why O'Hagan and Pryde are involved in operations at ER and Hibs sink toward the low life level of the Tayside clubs, have already decided to give next week a miss. And not going to any games until the large bull headed steward in the South Lower standing under barrier 6 for most of the game who appeared to be a supervisor is removed from operations forthwith and this is publicly announced by Hibs.


And if posters of the intelligence of jgl7 who call people like FatStu sad gits for the opinions they have expressed see themselves as moving with the ties, they can do it without me.

Crab Apple - if you think that was professional stewarding today, I do not want to follow any club of whom you are ana ccurate sample of their supporters.

Gutted. With a committed attitude like that we'll really miss you. :rolleyes:


you'd have been around here then?

http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/data/3551/Hibs1v0Killie_6thMarch2010_58_.JPG (http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/hibs-v-kilmarnock/p30736-hibs-1-v-0-kllie.html)

:thumbsup:

That's him. Baby blue jumper - guilty as charged!! :greengrin

[007 Mickey Weir]

Someone mentioned today that a couple of clubs done south have a 'relaxed' standing sections in the grounds. Were it is agreed through supporters associations and the clubs that the stewards will be a bit more relaxed and allow fans in that area to stand. It is the seen as the area for atmosphere.

Not sure if this is fact, but worth discussing at the fans meetings that are coming up.

What do fellow East standers think??

[Frazerbob]

The bottom line is, if everyone wants to stand there is nothing the police and stewards can do. Look at the South when the infirm and Hearts come to town or our end at Tynie Derbies. Nobody dares to tell you to sit down. However, today showed me that only a very small number of fans wanted to stand. I was in the middle of the upper South and as soon as the game kicked off, 99% of the fans sat down without any fuss what so ever. The big games will no doubt be different though.

[blueisthecolour]

So how come the atmosphere at Ibrox used to be pretty good (albeit everything we detested) but now you can just about hear a pindrop. You tell me what's changed then, because as far as I can remember you've had an all seated stadium for years.

Ibrox has been poor for atmosphere for a long time unless it's a big game, although we had most of the ground seated the enclosure was still there, the place where the atmosphere came from mates would stand togeteher sing songs have banter ect, since the seats went in there the atmosphere has never been the same.

[hibsbollah]

Someone mentioned today that a couple of clubs done south have a 'relaxed' standing sections in the grounds. Were it is agreed through supporters associations and the clubs that the stewards will be a bit more relaxed and allow fans in that area to stand. It is the seen as the area for atmosphere.

Not sure if this is fact, but worth discussing at the fans meetings that are coming up.

What do fellow East standers think??

Correct.:agree:

Its quite simple, people reach an informal agreement that stewarding will be light touch in certain areas of the stand, and people who want to stand and sing agree on the same certain area where they will get their season tickets, therefore minimising any inconvenience to the prawn sandwich brigade. All it needs is a little organisation, probably on websites like this one.

[Removed]

Ibrox has been poor for atmosphere for a long time unless it's a big game, although we had most of the ground seated the enclosure was still there, the place where the atmosphere came from mates would stand togeteher sing songs have banter ect, since the seats went in there the atmosphere has never been the same.

So did that happen as a result of the Taylor report?

And also, are you saying that the "banning" of certain songs hasn't affected the atmosphere at Ibrox, it's really the fault of the seats in the enclosure :greengrin

[007 Mickey Weir]

http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/data/3551/Hibs1v0Killie_6thMarch2010_60_.JPG (http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/hibs-v-kilmarnock/p30739-hibs-1-v-0-kllie.html)


Woo thats me right up the back near the middle walk way. Pigeon nest right above my heid! That could be worrying for future games. Sh@t on the pitch and good chance of sh@t coming from above.

PETRIE GET IT SORTED!!!!!!!!!!!!! :greengrin

[blueisthecolour]

So did that happen as a result of the Taylor report?

And also, are you saying that the "banning" of certain songs hasn't affected the atmosphere at Ibrox, it's really the fault of the seats in the enclosure :greengrin

Only the billy boys has been banned, no other, and we have the edu song to take it's place, yes the seats where put in to coply with the taylor report.

I know you wont want to but if you did look at the old you tube vids and you will see difference the enclosure made to the atmosphere.

[Removed]

Correct.:agree:

Its quite simple, people reach an informal agreement that stewarding will be light touch in certain areas of the stand, and people who want to stand and sing agree on the same certain area where they will get their season tickets, therefore minimising any inconvenience to the prawn sandwich brigade. All it needs is a little organisation, probably on websites like this one.

:agree:

I've seen that when I've been down in England. I agree that there should be sections where those who want to stand can. Yet again the paying customer is being treated unfairly imo. How hard can it be for some dialogue between the club security representatives, health & safety folk and the stewards/police.

If we can have all standing gigs at Murayfield/Hampden where spectators stand in seated areas then why not the fitba.

Mikey, get it sorted :greengrin

[Www1875hfc]

Sat in row S of the south lower today and stood the whole game. Much to the dis-like of the stewards and police, in fact saw 1 guy get thrown out for refusing to sit down.

If this continues in the the rest of this season and in the new east I will seriously re-consider whether or not I renew my season ticket and the people I was with today are of the same opinion.

FFS we weren't pissed staggering about and we weren't blocking anyones view. I am more than capable of standing on my own 2 feet and found the treatment by both stewards and especially the police appauling.

I was also in row S in the south lower today,back row,with a brick wall right behind us,why sit when your not obstructing anyones vision?
It was my mate that was ejected from the stadium this afternoon,after a verbal confrontation with the steward.
A few complaints will be registered on monday with hibernian regarding the stewards attitude,he certainly didnt try and defuse the situation,he wanted a reaction and he got it.The whole time whilst arguing his case he remained seated.
As for the police handling the situation they couldnt have been any nicer and didnt want to through the guy out.
Where are these so called stewards when the big 3 come calling?

[blueisthecolour]

:agree:

I've seen that when I've been down in England. I agree that there should be sections where those who want to stand can. Yet again the paying customer is being treated unfairly imo. How hard can it be for some dialogue between the club security representatives, health & safety folk and the stewards/police.

If we can have all standing gigs at Murayfield/Hampden where spectators stand in seated areas then why not the fitba.

Mikey, get it sorted :greengrin

At gigs the standing bit is on the pitch, so to do that at the football where will the players play?:wink:

[Crab apple]

Police only got involved of because of the attitude of what the poster (hyperbole maybe) but not wrongly called Nazi stewards. No ones view was being blocked.

Sadly summed up why I will not be getting a season ticket again why O'Hagan and Pryde are involved in operations at ER and Hibs sink toward the low life level of the Tayside clubs, have already decided to give next week a miss. And not going to any games until the large bull headed steward in the South Lower standing under barrier 6 for most of the game who appeared to be a supervisor is removed from operations forthwith and this is publicly announced by Hibs.


And if posters of the intelligence of jgl7 who call people like FatStu sad gits for the opinions they have expressed see themselves as moving with the ties, they can do it without me.

Crab Apple - if you think that was professional stewarding today, I do not want to follow any club of whom you are ana ccurate sample of their supporters.

Read my post properly. I said I have no problem with the stewards if they act professionally. I wasn't in the south so can't comment on how the stewards acted. If the tone and content of your post is the norm for you then I won't lose any sleep over you not returning to ER.

[mixumatosis]

If this continues in the the rest of this season and in the new east I will seriously re-consider whether or not I renew my season ticket and the people I was with today are of the same opinion.

FFS we weren't pissed staggering about and we weren't blocking anyones view. I am more than capable of standing on my own 2 feet and found the treatment by both stewards and especially the police appauling.

It would be more than feasible to create an area where I could have a cigarette without endangering anyone other than like minded individuals who also choose to smoke but d'you know what ? It's the rules within the stadium that I don't get to smoke. I don't like it but I'm not going to spit the dummy and cry about not going back til there's a smoking section. Grow up.

[QUOTE=The Old Brigade;2378754]Police only got involved of because of the attitude of what the poster (hyperbole maybe) but not wrongly called Nazi stewards. No ones view was being blocked.

Sadly summed up why I will not be getting a season ticket again why O'Hagan and Pryde are involved in operations at ER and Hibs sink toward the low life level of the Tayside clubs, have already decided to give next week a miss. And not going to any games until the large bull headed steward in the South Lower standing under barrier 6 for most of the game who appeared to be a supervisor is removed from operations forthwith and this is publicly announced by Hibs.

And if posters of the intelligence of jgl7 who call people like FatStu sad gits for the opinions they have expressed see themselves as moving with the ties, they can do it without me. QUOTE]

So they were actual Nazis then were they ? Maybe if you tried hard you could come up with a more distasteful and childish remark, but do us a favour and don't try eh ? FFS, a man who's paid to do so asked you to sit down in an ALL SEATER STADIUM. For this he gets called a Nazi and you pompously call for him to be sacked and publicly denounced by Hibs. Good luck with that, I hope to see him there for the remainder of the season and beyond if it means you'll be absent.

[MSK]

In a time such as now ..Scottish football is rooked ...its about time the heirarchy started listening to fans & relaxed some laws ..a section of terracing could have been built into the new East with stringent safety measures put in place..

Im a terracing lover, even wi dodgy knee's i would rather stand than sit..i keep watching re-runs of the infamous "Souness" debut game where i was in amongst those superb "sways"...that was unbelievable ...bring back terracing, you never know ...it may just bring crowds back ..

[Removed]

At gigs the standing bit is on the pitch, so to do that at the football where will the players play?:wink:

:greengrin

You go to any stadium gig and you'll see folk standing and dancing/jumping about in the seated areas. Normally jaked with pink cowboy hats though :greengrin

[Owain_1987]

you'd have been around here then?

http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/data/3551/Hibs1v0Killie_6thMarch2010_58_.JPG (http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/hibs-v-kilmarnock/p30736-hibs-1-v-0-kllie.html)

http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/data/3551/Hibs1v0Killie_6thMarch2010_55_.JPG (http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/hibs-v-kilmarnock/p30733-hibs-1-v-0-kllie.html)



http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/data/3551/Hibs1v0Killie_6thMarch2010_60_.JPG (http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/hibs-v-kilmarnock/p30739-hibs-1-v-0-kllie.html)
:thumbsup:

Thanks for that am in some of those pics :greengrin

[blueisthecolour]

:greengrin

You go to any stadium gig and you'll see folk standing and dancing/jumping about in the seated areas. Normally jaked with pink cowboy hats though :greengrin

Ah but they are Pi**ed (not allowed at football)

[JoJo_07]

I am a South Stand Cat B Season ticket holder and of course have been moved too (further along toward the West Stand). It looks very like us guys in the South have been moved along BUT are still near the folks we were near before. Well there is a young kid in front of us and rather than being intimidated by the increase in noise etc. it was really interesting/encouraging to see that she was really animated, singing along and getting right into the better atmosphere. So all of a sudden we have a fan who is aware of how good things can be. :thumbsup::thumbsup: and more importantly I am so looking forward to moving back to the new east.

[Owain_1987]

Someone mentioned today that a couple of clubs done south have a 'relaxed' standing sections in the grounds. Were it is agreed through supporters associations and the clubs that the stewards will be a bit more relaxed and allow fans in that area to stand. It is the seen as the area for atmosphere.

Not sure if this is fact, but worth discussing at the fans meetings that are coming up.

What do fellow East standers think??

I know this is true at Cardiff

[ronaldo7]

Welcome to a football match! Yeah, let's get the team playing better, THEN we'l get all thHa ha! e stands singing, THEN we'd all sing for 90 minutes.

Been to more games than you'd care to mention. No welcome needed here bud.

Comes back to the old argument of whether the team playing well inspires the fans to sing, whether the fans singing inspires the team to play well, or whether it should be somewhere in between.

I have no idea what the new East will be like atmosphere-wise but the bottom line is we've ripped the heart and soul of ER's atmosphere out and for the rest of this season, if we've not got the South, we've got nothing.

Kilmarnock is one thing, but if we get put alongside Hearts, Rangers, Celtic fans after the split we're going to be the 12th man, engaged in a 90 minute singing battle against folk who'll sing about anything and everything that's got nothing to do with football.
If we're not prepared to do what it takes to win that battle in the stands, the team will suffer on the pitch.

Only raise your game for the "BIG" teams eh:wink:.

FWIW my laddie is in the back row arguing with stewards about standing. Following in his father's footsteps.:greengrin

[Fat Stu]

Oh ma sides, go away from some scran and come back to being a sad git.

Tell you what you can ram your souless all seater stadiums. I've been going to hibs games since before I could walk. I've stood in the east since I started going to games on my own. The stewards was an absolute pr!cks and the police reaction wasn't much better.

I loved the way a small band of killie fans were allowed to stand for 90mins though.

As for health and safety, are you seriously telling me I am incable of standing up without falling over, what aload of p!sh.

Jamie thanks for the photos and future 17 thanks for outing me.

[Moulin Yarns]

Sat in row S of the south lower today and stood the whole game. Much to the dis-like of the stewards and police, in fact saw 1 guy get thrown out for refusing to sit down.

If this continues in the the rest of this season and in the new east I will seriously re-consider whether or not I renew my season ticket and the people I was with today are of the same opinion.

FFS we weren't pissed staggering about and we weren't blocking anyones view. I am more than capable of standing on my own 2 feet and found the treatment by both stewards and especially the police appauling.

Row S, back row? when I had my season ticket in the same row in the FF for the past few seasons, I never had any problem standing. As you say, give a guy a uniform an dhe believes he can boss anybody!! A wee bit of common sense is called for.

[Jamie]

As for health and safety, are you seriously telling me I am incable of standing up without falling over, what aload of p!sh.



just tell the stewards you need to stand because of your back injury :wink:

[Fat Stu]

Row S, back row? when I had my season ticket in the same row in the FF for the past few seasons, I never had any problem standing. As you say, give a guy a uniform an dhe believes he can boss anybody!! A wee bit of common sense is called for.

Aye sorry row s is the back row.

[Removed]

I loved the way a small band of killie fans were allowed to stand for 90mins though.

No matter what side of the arguement folk take, this is the bit that makes the whole thing an absolute joke :agree:

If the polis and stewards are going to try and enforce the regulations at least be consistent.

[Jonnyboy]

Oh ma sides, go away from some scran and come back to being a sad git.

Tell you what you can ram your souless all seater stadiums. I've been going to hibs games since before I could walk. I've stood in the east since I started going to games on my own. The stewards was an absolute pr!cks and the police reaction wasn't much better.

I loved the way a small band of killie fans were allowed to stand for 90mins though.

As for health and safety, are you seriously telling me I am incable of standing up without falling over, what aload of p!sh.

Jamie thanks for the photos and future 17 thanks for outing me.

Stu, you're angry at the treatment and upset at some of the responses on here mate and I can understand why but dinnae go saying you won't be back! I'm pretty sure it'll get easier to stand at the back and if more fans do it then the stewards (aka stormtroopers) will have no chance to stop you

[ronaldo7]

Oh ma sides, go away from some scran and come back to being a sad git.

Tell you what you can ram your souless all seater stadiums. I've been going to hibs games since before I could walk. I've stood in the east since I started going to games on my own. The stewards was an absolute pr!cks and the police reaction wasn't much better.

I loved the way a small band of killie fans were allowed to stand for 90mins though.

As for health and safety, are you seriously telling me I am incable of standing up without falling over, what aload of p!sh.

Jamie thanks for the photos and future 17 thanks for outing me.

That must have been "some" plate o mince and tatties:greengrin

[Sir David Gray]

You should keep standing. As long as you're not blocking the view of people who simply cannot stand, I see no reason why you cannot stand.

Banning standing because of health and safety is a load of nonsense.

[CMac1988]

you'd have been around here then?

http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/data/3551/Hibs1v0Killie_6thMarch2010_58_.JPG (http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/hibs-v-kilmarnock/p30736-hibs-1-v-0-kllie.html)

http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/data/3551/Hibs1v0Killie_6thMarch2010_60_.JPG (http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/hibs-v-kilmarnock/p30739-hibs-1-v-0-kllie.html)

:thumbsup:

Class photo's m8. Me, my dad and brother are in the front row (AA) of the top tier. Next to the little red head kid (likes a shout he does :agree:) who's peering over :thumbsup:.

[Steve-O]

Excuse my ignorance but where were the Killie fan(s) sitting today?

[hibee_girl]

Excuse my ignorance but where were the Killie fan(s) sitting today?

Bottom of the south stand, nearest to the East stand.

[The_Todd]

Excuse my ignorance but where were the Killie fan(s) sitting today?

South lower, section nearest the East

[jakedance]

Non-violent direct action and civil disobediance is what is required here. If we all stand up together they can't make us all sit. It's a stupid rule so we just shouldn't put up with it.

Rather than standing at the back the folk that are determined to stand should come forward to the front. If anyone wants to sit there is plenty space in the other stands. Rather than showing consideration for them they should show some consideration to us. Stick it to The Man.

I miss the East already.

[Hibercelona]

Standing up is a part of the game FFS. :grr:

They call them "stands".... yet, you aren't aloud to stand in them. :confused:

What is football coming to? :bitchy:

[Hibercelona]

Non-violent direct action and civil disobediance is what is required here. If we all stand up together they can't make us all sit. It's a stupid rule so we just shouldn't put up with it.

Rather than standing at the back the folk that are determined to stand should come forward to the front. If anyone wants to sit there is plenty space in the other stands. Rather than showing consideration for them they should show some consideration to us. Stick it to The Man.

I miss the East already.

:top marks

[RickyS]

Non-violent direct action and civil disobediance is what is required here. If we all stand up together they can't make us all sit. It's a stupid rule so we just shouldn't put up with it.

Rather than standing at the back the folk that are determined to stand should come forward to the front. If anyone wants to sit there is plenty space in the other stands. Rather than showing consideration for them they should show some consideration to us. Stick it to The Man.

I miss the East already.
:agree: something never felt right today (that was probably nicotine withdrawal tho):greengrin

[Brando7]

After reading the SPL requirements i found this

Seats or Standing Places – The ground shall be all seated. The seats shall be individually numbered. Seats shall have a backrest of a minimum of 30cm.

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/ClubLicensing/TheManual/05%20Ground%20Criteria.pdf

Wonder how we got away with this in the east stand :greengrin

[Brando7]

found this also

http://www.flaweb.org.uk/docs/publications/pubs/stndinst.php

it for english clubs but sure it the same for up here

[1875godsgift]

found this also

[/URL][URL]http://www.flaweb.org.uk/docs/publications/pubs/stndinst.php (http://www.flaweb.org.uk/docs/publications/pubs/stndinst.php)

it for english clubs but sure it the same for up here


Nature and causes of standing

Both the Taylor Report and the model ground regulations implicitly distinguish short term standing when spectators are entering or leaving and during moments of excitement from persistent standing during the match. Such short term standing may constitute a hazard. Spectators may slip, fall and injure themselves. Realistically, these risks cannot be wholly eliminated. Nevertheless, the ground management should take whatever physical or crowd management measures it reasonably can to reduce them to an acceptable level.
This paper concentrates, however, on persistent standing during the course of the match unrelated to events on the field of play. Spectators may stand persistently for different reasons, some involuntary, some deliberate, for example:


they stand because inadequate sightlines obstruct their view or the seats are uncomfortable;
they cannot see because other spectators are standing;
they see supporters of the other team standing;
they positively prefer to stand; or
they are demonstrating their opposition to the policies of the club or the Government.


First one is maybe how Hibs got round standing in the east?

Second one, well if they don't clamp down on the infirm standing (contradiction in terms I know!) then what do they expect?

Fair enough, a family friendly stand or two is a very good idea, nobody wants their kids exposed to any danger. But how about a sign above the New East stand, instead of:

" Abandon hope all ye who enter here "

We could have:

" Abandon any hope of liability claims of all ye who enter here "

With everybody entering signing a disclaimer?

[PiemanP]

Got to be honest, not read through the whole thread (just looked at the pictures and a wee bit bevvied :greengrin)

but i was very very disappointed at how many people were standing today! i was up the back row of the upper tier, seat 86 to be precise, and judging by the pictures there seems to be no more than 20 hibs fans standing throughout the whole south stand, compared to around 200/300 odd that used to stand in the east.

I fully respect that if someone wants to sit down through the game then thats their choice, but theres plenty room at the front for these people (or the FF or west stand) but there must be more than 20 people in the south stand that wanted to stand up and sing for 90 minutes?? Surely!

thats why today the stewards were able to bully us, beacuase the number of people standing was low enough for them to control, however if the back 5 or 6 rows were all standing they wouldnt have a snowballs chance in hell of telling us to sit down.

We really need to get organised and say that anyone who wants to stand and sing all get together and sit in roughly the same area, similar to the east used to be, so that a) we are not disturbing fellow hibees who wish to enjoy the game seated without singing and b) we do not get bullied by the steward like i was in the back row of the south today!

:agree:

[PiemanP]

Non-violent direct action and civil disobediance is what is required here. If we all stand up together they can't make us all sit. It's a stupid rule so we just shouldn't put up with it.

Rather than standing at the back the folk that are determined to stand should come forward to the front. If anyone wants to sit there is plenty space in the other stands. Rather than showing consideration for them they should show some consideration to us. Stick it to The Man.

I miss the East already.


YES 100% :top marks

lets get together, stand and show our support!

[Beefster]

Those barsteward catering staff in the South were far too fast serving my pie and bovril and the facilities looked suspiciously clean. I won't be back until they make it 'more like' the East was when I left it last week. What next? Warm pies? ****ing Health and Safety....

PS. I was in row R of the lower tier and the stewards up near us were more concerned about the folk standing at the top of the stair as there was no seats there.

[HFC 0-7]

Honestly, yes. I've stood at games my whole life and specifically picked seats at the back row so i'd have no problem standing blocking anyones view.

Whilst the atmosphere may have sounded better for other stands I wasn't that impressed with it today especially when we were playing poor. I believe this was partly to do with the amount of people sitting down.

Didnt look like there that many people standing today at all. I was speaking to guy that used to stand in the east and he thought he would stand the whole game, but said he found himself sitting down and said the view was great. The stand made for a much better sound coming out than in it did in the east.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

I'm flying home next week and will be in attendance for the cup game next week.

I'm gonna stand. I'm not quite sure where, hell I don't even know what stand I'll be in, but I'm gonna stand. Like, really stand. I don't mean a sort of half-crouch or a half-mast posture, I'm talking full-pelt, back-straight standing up. Hardcore mofos, proper hardcore.

I am beyond reproach and I will stand. At least until I get told to sit down either by a steward, my dad, the punter behind me or my inner voice.

I have no idea why I wrote this.

[marinello59]

I'm flying home next week and will be in attendance for the cup game next week.

I'm gonna stand. I'm not quite sure where, hell I don't even know what stand I'll be in, but I'm gonna stand. Like, really stand. I don't mean a sort of half-crouch or a half-mast posture, I'm talking full-pelt, back-straight standing up. Hardcore mofos, proper hardcore.

I am beyond reproach and I will stand. At least until I get told to sit down either by a steward, my dad, the punter behind me or my inner voice.

I have no idea why I wrote this.

:faf:

[Nameless]

http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/data/3551/Hibs1v0Killie_6thMarch2010_58_.JPG (http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/hibs-v-kilmarnock/p30736-hibs-1-v-0-kllie.html)

Whenever I see photos of me at the match, I always look like a right miserable git:confused:

When relocating to the South, I spoke to the ticket office, and specifically chose seats on the back row so that my standing would not have a negative impact on anybody else. It is stupid to say that standing is a health and saftey risk. Consider this, the vast majority of patrons will STAND for the whole of half time, during which I have never seen masses of people falling over and breaking bones.

As an aside to this, I would like to say that one of the stewards who tried to make us "Row S Rebels"(we should make a flag:greengrin) sit down, was very polite, and almost apologetic. The simplest solution is just to sit when asked, then stand as soon as they leave, as I don't think it is wise to go out of your way to annoy people who have a direct impact on your ability to enjoy the match.

As another aside, FatStu really suits pastal colours:greengrin

[Pedantic_Hibee]

FatStu looks a bit like Mike Ashley whilst the guy second in from the very top left of the picture has just had his baws squeezed by that mischievous looking steward.

[madgoalie87]

YES 100% :top marks

lets get together, stand and show our support!

Totally agree.i am goin to ask the people behind me if they do im quite happy to relocate.as for this all seater stuff,anyone who was at parkhead wil agree that all stadia arnt all seated so that argument is only used when it suits!

[Danderhall Hibs]

I know a few folk that said they'll come start going to games now that they know noone will be standing in front of them.

Hopefully their return will cancel out the loss of the die-hards that aren't coming back 'cos they've got to sit.

[Fat Stu]

Whenever I see photos of me at the match, I always look like a right miserable git:confused:

When relocating to the South, I spoke to the ticket office, and specifically chose seats on the back row so that my standing would not have a negative impact on anybody else. It is stupid to say that standing is a health and saftey risk. Consider this, the vast majority of patrons will STAND for the whole of half time, during which I have never seen masses of people falling over and breaking bones.

As an aside to this, I would like to say that one of the stewards who tried to make us "Row S Rebels"(we should make a flag:greengrin) sit down, was very polite, and almost apologetic. The simplest solution is just to sit when asked, then stand as soon as they leave, as I don't think it is wise to go out of your way to annoy people who have a direct impact on your ability to enjoy the match.

As another aside, FatStu really suits pastal colours:greengrin

Actually the stewards in the photo were ok, it was the stewards to the left that called the police up who were being idiots.

I am now considering wearing a fake moustace and glasses to next weeks game so I don't get ****ing reconised.

[Nameless]

I know a few folk that said they'll come start going to games now that they know noone will be standing in front of them.

Hopefully their return will cancel out the loss of the die-hards that aren't coming back 'cos they've got to sit.

Did these people think the only place they could go was the East??? Had they never heard of the South, where, until yesterday, you could almost have a section to yourself??? I'm assuming that these people are not Hibs fans then, if this was the reason they never went to games before, because there might be standing:rolleyes:

[Danderhall Hibs]

I'm assuming that these people are not Hibs fans then,

Are you now talking about the folk that aren't going to go back 'cos they can't stand?

[bubblesmorrison]

STAND UP SING UP!

been in my seat in the ff lower since it was built and i stand pritty much every game for the full game never get any problems .

as for the post about games at hampden are you talking about scotland games? if so go and take your zimmer frame and sit in the main stand because the north stand and all its standers would like to be left alone to stand and sing as we do so well.

[johnrebus]

Don't really see where all this macho ' ahm gonna stand, naebody tells me whit to dae ' stuff, is going to get anybody.

The fact is that everybody attending an SPL fixture has, by law, to sit down. Whether it is a stupid law or not is irrelevant.

Hibs fans cannot be the only ones who feel this way, so is it not obvious that there should now be some kind of organised pressure group formed to take this to local MP's, the football authorities, maybe even Strasburg under human rights issues?

I much prefer to stand, mainly because its easier to keep warm during seemingly endless winters!

Time for proper action, not pointless bloody posturing.

:grr:

[marti1875]

FatStu looks a bit like Mike Ashley whilst the guy second in from the very top left of the picture has just had his baws squeezed by that mischievous looking steward.

:thumbsup: That's what i thought when i looked at this pic...either that or the poor guy was caught on camera in mid heart-attack mode...:greengrin

[Antifa Hibs]

Don't really see where all this macho ' ahm gonna stand, naebody tells me whit to dae ' stuff, is going to get anybody.

The fact is that everybody attending an SPL fixture has, by law, to sit down. Whether it is a stupid law or not is irrelevant.

Hibs fans cannot be the only ones who feel this way, so is it not obvious that there should now be some kind of organised pressure group formed to take this to local MP's, the football authorities, maybe even Strasburg under human rights issues?

I much prefer to stand, mainly because its easier to keep warm during seemingly endless winters!

Time for proper action, not pointless bloody posturing.

:grr:


It's not a law, merely a rule or condition, your no gonna get arrested for standing :wink:

Most stewards are pricks. All sad fk'ers IMO, upper south yesterday two stewards acting the big men getting details of wee kids aged 13-16, never dared to go 5 meters along the stand though to a group of men and get their details though.

Common sense is needed here, its *** ludicrus this sitting standing bollocks. Stadiums in Scotland are full about 8 games of the season (Basically for old firm and edinburgh derbies) every ground has at LEAST 3000 empty seats, yet fans are getting harrassed, ejected and even banned, for standing on the back row.

Use the *** head Hibs as some fans WILL walk.

[johnrebus]

It's not a law, merely a rule or condition, your no gonna get arrested for standing :wink:

Most stewards are pricks. All sad fk'ers IMO, upper south yesterday two stewards acting the big men getting details of wee kids aged 13-16, never dared to go 5 meters along the stand though to a group of men and get their details though.

Common sense is needed here, its *** ludicrus this sitting standing bollocks. Stadiums in Scotland are full about 8 games of the season (Basically for old firm and edinburgh derbies) every ground has at LEAST 3000 empty seats, yet fans are getting harrassed, ejected and even banned, for standing on the back row.

Use the *** head Hibs as some fans WILL walk.


In this instance, it doesn't matter what you call it, the fact is these are all seated stadia, with seats, to be sat upon. not for standing. A decision enforced by the Taylor Report, not Hibernian Football Club

Most stewards? No, a few, but not most. Sweeping generalisations weaken the points you try to make.

If Hibs fans stop supporting the club because they can't do something the club has no control over, then goodbye, mind the door doesn't hit your arse on the way out.

:yawn:

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Yesterday was the first time I have ever been in the Lower South stand. The only other time I have been in that part of the ground was for the midweek game against Liege in the UEFA Cup. I really don't like watching football from that viewpoint. Like Fir Park, Falkirk, Pars etc, but that is personal choice and if the option is no watching the Hibs then that is a no-brainer. Probably made worse by the fact that "my" part of the East was still intact. No wanting to stray into the touchy-feely areas but being a wee bit dis-orientated in your own ground was not great and when you have 20-25 years or so where it is accepted that even if you have allocated seat number you just all sit where you like, it was a bit of shock to go to, quote..." sit where your effin ticket tells you to". Only needed something to obstruct my view and it could have been Parkhead.

[Antifa Hibs]

In this instance, it doesn't matter what you call it, the fact is these are all seated stadia, with seats, to be sat upon. not for standing. A decision enforced by the Taylor Report, not Hibernian Football Club

Most stewards? No, a few, but not most. Sweeping generalisations weaken the points you try to make.

If Hibs fans stop supporting the club because they can't do something the club has no control over, then goodbye, mind the door doesn't hit your arse on the way out.

:yawn:

Most are pricks, not all, but most are. From past experiences they are generally knobs, saddo's with nae lifes, non educated sad fk's who probably take great pride in enforcing this sit down rule on a saturday afternoon for minimum wage :rolleyes:

And easter road has been all seater for the last decade. And for the last decade anything from 800 to 2000 fans have stood everyweek. So whats changed since last week where we stood no bother, other than the date..? Also there was fans in the north and west standing yesterday, in what you pointed out is a seater stand with seats to be sat on, why didn't they get told to sit :confused:

And i'm sure Hibs will have some control, all it would take is the stadium manager to tell the head steward and match commander and tell them to let us be, thats all it would take. Exact same thing happened at Man City.

[Fat Stu]

I'm I not correct in saying that the taylor report was a reccomendation for english football and had sweet FA to do with scottish football.

[Hibbyradge]

Has anyone got any pics of the fans in the South so I can see what it looks like?

http://www.hibs.net/message/showthread.php?t=176969

[Nameless]

Are you now talking about the folk that aren't going to go back 'cos they can't stand?

Awesome.

[Spoonjilloun]

cmon, grow up. If you want to stand then stand, but if you are asked to sit down by the police then do so. As for not going back because you cannot stand at an all seated stadium, well.....thats just rediculious.

Fans need to realise the old terracing is now gone, and look to the future! get over it.

well said...:greengrin

[The_Todd]

The law requires Hibs provide an all seater stadium, which they have done for a long time now. The law does not stipulate that fans must sit. That will be up to Hibs, and has been aluded to already in this thread Hibs have to date not enforced it in the East. If it was a legal issue then surely there would have been no standing at all up til now? Surely Hibs would nit have risked legal action all this time? What about away fans in the south? More often than not they stand during matches, yesterday included.

There is no legal requirement for the stewards to hide behind, although it's clear the club want everyone sat hence yesterdays PA announcement.

[MSK]

The law requires Hibs provide an all seater stadium, which they have done for a long time now. The law does not stipulate that fans must sit. That will be up to Hibs, and has been aluded to already in this thread Hibs have to date not enforced it in the East. If it was a legal issue then surely there would have been no standing at all up til now? Surely Hibs would nit have risked legal action all this time? What about away fans in the south? More often than not they stand during matches, yesterday included.

There is no legal requirement for the stewards to hide behind, although it's clear the club want everyone sat hence yesterdays PA announcement.Surely though in the East standing was "relaxed" for the simple reason that there were way too many obstructions esp the tv gantry & the pillars ..i think hibs were looking at that as opposed to folk standing & creating an atmosphere...i see hibs taking a different action when the new East stand is built ..

[The_Todd]

Surely though in the East standing was "relaxed" for the simple reason that there were way too many obstructions esp the tv gantry & the pillars ..i think hibs were looking at that as opposed to folk standing & creating an atmosphere...i see hibs taking a different action when the new East stand is built ..

But still if it were a legal issue there would be no relaxation, that was my main point.

[K.Marx]

it's clear the club want everyone sat hence yesterdays PA announcement.

Really dont see why the club cant just let fans who want to stand to stand. really does get blown up to be a bigger issue than it really should be. back 5-10 rows for standers, both sides are happy. problem solved.

[Hibby D]

I empathise with those who've stood for longer than they can remember and I can almost understand why for some it's now turned into an emotive subject.

But the main crux of the matter lies with the clear and extremely unfair inconsistency displayed by stewards and the police week in and week out.

Believe it or not where I sit in the FF lower there are a few lads in the rows immediately behind me who on occasion stay on their feet (totally hardcore :devil:) Some weeks they're told to sit and in others they're left to enjoy themselves.

Meanwhile over in the South, hundreds in the away support (albeit mainly the OF and the Yams) are left in peace to enjoy the match on their feet.

I respect "policies" if they're fairly implemented and when a clear benefit is gained, however I cannot abide it when they clearly serve little benefit and
are not implemented fairly.

In this instance a sledgehammer is being used to crack a nut.

[Sean1875]

Whos all standing at Tynie then? :devil:

[Phil MaGlass]

Simple,if you want to sit,next home game, everyone start filling the stand from the back,everyone can then stand and the stewards will have a bugger of a job trying to get you all to sit down.Also as it is not a regulation to sit down they can go *** themsels

[Teo10]

[QUOTE=Jamie;2378760]you'd have been around here then?

http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/data/3551/Hibs1v0Killie_6thMarch2010_58_.JPG (http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/hibs-v-kilmarnock/p30736-hibs-1-v-0-kllie.html)

http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/data/3551/Hibs1v0Killie_6thMarch2010_55_.JPG (http://www.hibeesbounce.com/gallery/hibs-v-kilmarnock/p30733-hibs-1-v-0-kllie.html)


I look so happy in these photos :faf: Sums up the game really!

[Sammy7nil]

South Stand and the Nazi Stewards
Sat in row S of the south lower today and stood the whole game. Much to the dis-like of the stewards and police, in fact saw 1 guy get thrown out for refusing to sit down.

If this continues in the the rest of this season and in the new east I will seriously re-consider whether or not I renew my season ticket and the people I was with today are of the same opinion.

FFS we weren't pissed staggering about and we weren't blocking anyones view. I am more than capable of standing on my own 2 feet and found the treatment by both stewards and especially the police appauling.


Confused dot com :wink::wink:

Just sit down fatty :greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

I empathise with those who've stood for longer than they can remember and I can almost understand why for some it's now turned into an emotive subject.

But the main crux of the matter lies with the clear and extremely unfair inconsistency displayed by stewards and the police week in and week out.

Believe it or not where I sit in the FF lower there are a few lads in the rows immediately behind me who on occasion stay on their feet (totally hardcore :devil:) Some weeks they're told to sit and in others they're left to enjoy themselves.

Meanwhile over in the South, hundreds in the away support (albeit mainly the OF and the Yams) are left in peace to enjoy the match on their feet.

I respect "policies" if they're fairly implemented and when a clear benefit is gained, however I cannot abide it when they clearly serve little benefit and
are not implemented fairly.

In this instance a sledgehammer is being used to crack a nut.

:agree::top marks

[Hibernia Na Eir]

The atmosphere is pish at hunbrox because you have no songs left to sing. Nothing to do with standing or sitting.

they sing "songs" at Hunbrox?

is that what you call them ? !!

[The Old Brigade]

It would be more than feasible to create an area where I could have a cigarette without endangering anyone other than like minded individuals who also choose to smoke but d'you know what ? It's the rules within the stadium that I don't get to smoke. I don't like it but I'm not going to spit the dummy and cry about not going back til there's a smoking section. Grow up.

[QUOTE=The Old Brigade;2378754]Police only got involved of because of the attitude of what the poster (hyperbole maybe) but not wrongly called Nazi stewards. No ones view was being blocked.

Sadly summed up why I will not be getting a season ticket again why O'Hagan and Pryde are involved in operations at ER and Hibs sink toward the low life level of the Tayside clubs, have already decided to give next week a miss. And not going to any games until the large bull headed steward in the South Lower standing under barrier 6 for most of the game who appeared to be a supervisor is removed from operations forthwith and this is publicly announced by Hibs.

And if posters of the intelligence of jgl7 who call people like FatStu sad gits for the opinions they have expressed see themselves as moving with the times, they can do it without me. QUOTE]

So they were actual Nazis then were they ? Maybe if you tried hard you could come up with a more distasteful and childish remark, but do us a favour and don't try eh ? FFS, a man who's paid to do so asked you to sit down in an ALL SEATER STADIUM. For this he gets called a Nazi and you pompously call for him to be sacked and publicly denounced by Hibs. Good luck with that, I hope to see him there for the remainder of the season and beyond if it means you'll be absent.

It was not me that made the original Nazi quote and if you read my post you will see that I acknowledged this was hyperbole, point still stands that that sort of steward is the sort of person who would have thrived in the sort of states that even tend slightly toward the tendencies of 1930s Germany.

And if club want to employ sort of person who shows nothing but bullying and control freakery to apply guidelines that were intended to be applied in a common sense way by Lord Taylor when introduced not by this sort of stewarding, they can do it without my support in future, their reaction to that steward this week will be a test. And I am far from the only person feeling like this.

And it was not me who was spoken to by steward, I was in the West yesterday. But having read the later posts it was maybe just one steward being a complete twat, it maybe looked worse than it was from a distance.

[The Old Brigade]

Did these people think the only place they could go was the East??? Had they never heard of the South, where, until yesterday, you could almost have a section to yourself??? I'm assuming that these people are not Hibs fans then, if this was the reason they never went to games before, because there might be standing:rolleyes:

Think Danderhall Hibs is on the wind up (hope so otherwise pity him!) but could not have put it better myself, even in the East Stand it was only a minority of areas where it was non-stop standing (where I went we sat most of game but loved it because people standing added to atmosphere!), let alone the other 3 stands!

[The Old Brigade]

Yes you are not correct.
The recommendation was for all top English and Scottish divisions phase out
terracing to be replaced by all seated stadia.

Difference was there were subsequent laws brought in affecting England and Wales only. Also there is a football licence authority who takes a reactionary line on this issue. in Scotland they never were, but SPL has taken a hard line on standing.

Glasgow authorities seem more relaxed on this issue than Hibs now sadly and plenty stood whole game at Czech international on Wednesday, there were quite alarge number standing at recent hibs game at Ibrox too from both clubs with no interference.. Even the maligned Parkhead stewards (and I was a Celtic fan before starting following Hibs when I relocated to Edinburgh) rarely throw people out just for standing, although I fully accept they do it for many other nonsensical reasons and they have not been as bad in recent years, in my experience anyway.

[RoYO!]

think its fair that if you're singing a song you would naturally be on your feet to sing it... and expected to be so.

so if you want to stand, just make sure you're singing :greengrin

will do wonders for the atmosphere :thumbsup:

[Jonnyboy]

I empathise with those who've stood for longer than they can remember and I can almost understand why for some it's now turned into an emotive subject.

But the main crux of the matter lies with the clear and extremely unfair inconsistency displayed by stewards and the police week in and week out.

Believe it or not where I sit in the FF lower there are a few lads in the rows immediately behind me who on occasion stay on their feet (totally hardcore :devil:) Some weeks they're told to sit and in others they're left to enjoy themselves.

Meanwhile over in the South, hundreds in the away support (albeit mainly the OF and the Yams) are left in peace to enjoy the match on their feet.

I respect "policies" if they're fairly implemented and when a clear benefit is gained, however I cannot abide it when they clearly serve little benefit and
are not implemented fairly.

In this instance a sledgehammer is being used to crack a nut.

Sounds familiar :wink:

As it happens D, I think you've hit the nail firmly on the head (no sledgehammers were used in the creation of this post) :greengrin

[Hibby D]

Sounds familiar :wink:



I had a good teacher :wink:



As it happens D, I think you've hit the nail firmly on the head (no sledgehammers were used in the creation of this post) :greengrin

Only a nut :hilarious

[Thigh ar la]

That's rubbish, My mate works for stewards at several grounds and it's the same problem, if people who sit in the east think when the new stand is built it will be like old times they will be very much mistaken.
Well then what is the point? If everyone on this board from the est decides that is what will happen then that is what will happen! Just because a few geezersw in luminous jackets think they are in control dosent mean that they actually are. We should all have more ****ing balls...:bye: No Guts - No Glory!

[GhostofBolivar]

The stewards are Nazis?

Did they make you strip naked and run in circles before deciding who got to sit in the stand?

A slight exaggeration, no? :cool2:

[Steve-O]

I know a few folk that said they'll come start going to games now that they know noone will be standing in front of them.

Hopefully their return will cancel out the loss of the die-hards that aren't coming back 'cos they've got to sit.

You should've informed them about the 3.5 stands where they could've been sitting down to their heart's content for the last 10 years without people standing in front of them.

[Danderhall Hibs]

You should've informed them about the 3.5 stands where they could've been sitting down to their heart's content for the last 10 years without people standing in front of them.

They didn't like them enough (there were only 2 stands recently, now it's 2.5 BTW).

They'd only go if they could sit in the East. Crazy mentality - you'd think they'd want to go to the football to watch their team not bother if they were sitting or standing.

[HFC 0-7]

Most are pricks, not all, but most are. From past experiences they are generally knobs, saddo's with nae lifes, non educated sad fk's who probably take great pride in enforcing this sit down rule on a saturday afternoon for minimum wage :rolleyes:

And easter road has been all seater for the last decade. And for the last decade anything from 800 to 2000 fans have stood everyweek. So whats changed since last week where we stood no bother, other than the date..? Also there was fans in the north and west standing yesterday, in what you pointed out is a seater stand with seats to be sat on, why didn't they get told to sit :confused:

And i'm sure Hibs will have some control, all it would take is the stadium manager to tell the head steward and match commander and tell them to let us be, thats all it would take. Exact same thing happened at Man City.

Perhaps a big honkin TV Gantry and support pillars. Maybe hibs were more flexable when the views were hammpered, now the views are fine. If you look at the pictures I think the standees are very much in the minority now, maybe because people are realising how much of a perfect and comfortable view you get when you sit.

And in regards to the stewards, all they do is what they are told, if they could get away with not asking anyone to do anything they would do it. No way would they risk confrontation unless they were instructed to do so.

[Joe Baker II]

They didn't like them enough (there were only 2 stands recently, now it's 2.5 BTW).

They'd only go if they could sit in the East. Crazy mentality - you'd think they'd want to go to the football to watch their team not bother if they were sitting or standing.

I think it needs to be recognised that there are people who feel this way rather than call them "crazy". It is certainly wrong that people give club unconditional support, if club go out of way to make things as unenjoyable for those who want to stand as possible many will be asking why give them support - and I emphasise not just the 100 or so who may actually stand at the back who feel this way. I write as someone who sat in the old East Stand but bought season ticket for Easter Road because the atmosphere was better because standing in segments of East Stand were tolerated.

But it is too early to talk of not going back, seemed in the South Stand it was one steward being an idiot and plenty I gather stood in the back of the top tier without hassle in back tier, but if this type of stewarding becomes regular occurence it may be different.

[Joe Baker II]

And in regards to the stewards, all they do is what they are told, if they could get away with not asking anyone to do anything they would do it. No way would they risk confrontation unless they were instructed to do so.


This is the issue though. If Hibs are telling stewards this, why was it only 1 steward who caused a problem (as seemed to be the case to me and confirmed by some of the posts), and if they are telling them to be confrontational many will consider whether to keep attending ER.

[Brizo]

Wasnt in the south instead took up reidence in the west amongst the sandwhichistas where it was all sitting at least where I was.

Being a bit devils advocate here but im guessing that the authorities are concerned that if the back row stand then the second back row will stand and then the third back row will stand ....you have a domino effect all the way down the stand. And if someone takes a tumble in what is a very steep upper tier gradient you could have a major accident. And id guess that some of the very same posters who are coming on here and using drama queen pejorative language like "Nazi" to describe stewards would be the first to complain about stewarding and policing if such an accident occurred.

Standing in the East was barry and I hate sitting for warmth reasons as much as anything else but things change. Time to move on .... imho

[Antifa Hibs]

Perhaps a big honkin TV Gantry and support pillars. Maybe hibs were more flexable when the views were hammpered, now the views are fine. If you look at the pictures I think the standees are very much in the minority now, maybe because people are realising how much of a perfect and comfortable view you get when you sit.

And in regards to the stewards, all they do is what they are told, if they could get away with not asking anyone to do anything they would do it. No way would they risk confrontation unless they were instructed to do so.

That shouldn't matter, rules are rules and all that. Rules don't state standing is not allowed. Unless there is a 10 pillars and a TV gantry block yer view, then its cool. :rolleyes:

I'm not talking about me, but fans will go for the boozer as opposed to ER on a Saturday afternoon if this ****** keeps up, Since Hertz closed Section N I personally know about 10 Jambo's who would rather go to the pub and watch Gillete Soccer Saturday as opposed to paying £25 to sit in the Wheatfield watching the game as if your at the theatre.

[ArabHibee]

It's not a law, merely a rule or condition, your no gonna get arrested for standing :wink:

Most stewards are pricks. All sad fk'ers IMO, upper south yesterday two stewards acting the big men getting details of wee kids aged 13-16, never dared to go 5 meters along the stand though to a group of men and get their details though.

Common sense is needed here, its *** ludicrus this sitting standing bollocks. Stadiums in Scotland are full about 8 games of the season (Basically for old firm and edinburgh derbies) every ground has at LEAST 3000 empty seats, yet fans are getting harrassed, ejected and even banned, for standing on the back row.

Use the *** head Hibs as some fans WILL walk.

I'm sure the Ayr United fan who got fined £500 for doing such a thing would beg to differ with you.

[Antifa Hibs]

I'm sure the Ayr United fan who got fined £500 for doing such a thing would beg to differ with you.

£500 fine for standing and standig only?

If he paid it he's a mug!

[MSK]

£500 fine for standing and standig only?

If he paid it he's a mug!Aye so he is ..doesnae pay ..fine doubles ..doesnae pay ...fine trebles ..doesnae pay ends up in the clink ...:crazy:

[Antifa Hibs]

Aye so he is ..doesnae pay ..fine doubles ..doesnae pay ...fine trebles ..doesnae pay ends up in the clink ...:crazy:

Fine from the club or polis? If it was the police then it wouldn't have been for standing only. Especially seeing as Somerset is mianly made up of terracing!

[Keith_M]

Stephen Fry mentioned on QI recently about online forums and usage of the word Nazi. His view (and of others) was that as soon as someone felt the need to mention Nazis in any form (when the topic in question had nothing to do with Nazis, obviously) that they had already lost the argument. His point being that the first person to mention them couldn't come up with a logical argument and had to resort to name-calling.


Unfortunate for this thread that it was already mentioned in the title. Maybe it could be noted for future topics.


:cool2:

[HFC 0-7]

This is the issue though. If Hibs are telling stewards this, why was it only 1 steward who caused a problem (as seemed to be the case to me and confirmed by some of the posts), and if they are telling them to be confrontational many will consider whether to keep attending ER.

Well judging by the pictures it seems that this one steward, being very confrontational told a lot of people to sit down and nearly everyone adhered to it. To be honest I would say that only a very small number of people had a problem with it as most were sitting. I think peope will just have to change with the times and sit throughout the match and only stand at songs and goals etc.

[ArabHibee]

Fine from the club or polis? If it was the police then it wouldn't have been for standing only. Especially seeing as Somerset is mianly made up of terracing!

Fine from the club? Dinnae be daft. When have you ever heard of that?
He was fined in a court of law. And it wasn't at Somerset Park, it was at Dens Park.
And banned from attending Scottish matches for 6 months as well I believe. All for wanting to stand. Deary me!

[DavieRoy]

I'll be honest and say there would be certain games I would go to in the East because I wanted to stand, mainly against the Old Firm and Hearts, others I would go in the North because it didn't bother me sitting down.

When I go to Hampden to watch Scotland I always go in the North Stand as all 14,000 fans housed in there stand up, the police don't care, the stewards like wise, and this is a 5 star UEFA ground so we are told and its Scottish Football's headquarters, talk about setting an example! Pity when Hibs go there its not organised enough for all the standers to go in the North!

Listen, there are rules and regulations but that doesn't mean people still can't be gutted they are not able to stand or want to stand. Things do change but I fully respect those who still want to stand rules or no rules.

[HFC 0-7]

That shouldn't matter, rules are rules and all that. Rules don't state standing is not allowed. Unless there is a 10 pillars and a TV gantry block yer view, then its cool. :rolleyes:

I'm not talking about me, but fans will go for the boozer as opposed to ER on a Saturday afternoon if this ****** keeps up, Since Hertz closed Section N I personally know about 10 Jambo's who would rather go to the pub and watch Gillete Soccer Saturday as opposed to paying £25 to sit in the Wheatfield watching the game as if your at the theatre.

Hibs rules state that you cant stand, yes its not law but its the hibs rule. The standees are very much in the minority now and the people that want to stand want a rule changed that can effect a lot of people, if it was the majority, or even a few thousand fans then I can see a point for the club to look into it but not when its very few. Yes there were lots that stood in the east, but it looks now that they done this because they had to not because they really want to.

[Antifa Hibs]

Fine from the club? Dinnae be daft. When have you ever heard of that?
He was fined in a court of law. And it wasn't at Somerset Park, it was at Dens Park.
And banned from attending Scottish matches for 6 months as well I believe. All for wanting to stand. Deary me!

Strictly then it wouldn't be for standing, probably for a breach of the peace that was related to that incident. On his criminal convictions sheet I can't see it saying 'Fined for standing at a football match'

[Antifa Hibs]

Hibs rules state that you cant stand, yes its not law but its the hibs rule. The standees are very much in the minority now and the people that want to stand want a rule changed that can effect a lot of people, if it was the majority, or even a few thousand fans then I can see a point for the club to look into it but not when its very few. Yes there were lots that stood in the east, but it looks now that they done this because they had to not because they really want to.

If thats the case they must be really *** daft seeing as there was 3000 other empty seats to choose from.

[HFC 0-7]

If thats the case they must be really *** daft seeing as there was 3000 other empty seats to choose from.

No they werent daft, they wanted to be in a stand where the atmosphere is good, and have a cheaper seat. A lot of people, myself included didnt mind standing at the games if my view was impeeded, but given the option I would sit, thats the difference.

I am just sharing my views here on what it looks like now. There wasnt a lot of people standing at the game on Saturday, and there seems only a few people intent on standing and its because of this I dont see why the club should go through a process of letting fans stand when it is quite evident that most fans are accepting the fact that you need to sit at the games. I have even spoken to people that sat in the east and were intent to stand but after going to the game at the weekend found themselves sitting down, not because they were asked to, just because when they sat, they had a good view.

[HFC 0-7]

Strictly then it wouldn't be for standing, probably for a breach of the peace that was related to that incident. On his criminal convictions sheet I can't see it saying 'Fined for standing at a football match'

Your right, Police cant arrest anyone or charge anyone for standing, but they can act if you are not complying with stadium rules and inturn it would be a charge of breach of the peace or something like that.

[ArabHibee]

Strictly then it wouldn't be for standing, probably for a breach of the peace that was related to that incident. On his criminal convictions sheet I can't see it saying 'Fined for standing at a football match'

What a stupid thing to say. If you swore at a polisman and got done for it, it wouldn't say 'Fined for swearing at a polisman' would it? He obviously got done for breach of the peace.

You seem to be a right keyboard warrior, or will you be the first hibee to be arrested for not sitting down just because 'I don't wanna'?

[Arch Stanton]

I think the stewards did alright - it wasn't just the two in the picture - the guy in the next aisle did a lot of bobbing up and down as well. Thankfully he stopped after ten minutes and the people in the back row were left to stand and watch in peace for the majority of the game.

Since the stewards had no way of knowing before the game how many would try and stand and therefore how much ensuing aggravation there would be, it seems fair enough that they put themselves about early on.

I imagine it will be the same the first game in the new East stand next season - lots of effort early on to get the message across and then let it settle.

I don't think what hapeened in the old East will be any indication of what will happen in the new East - I think it will be more like what happens when we go to Hampden when you allways get a few trying to stay standing but they always get shouted down by those behind them (or maybe the odd instance of a steward having to tell them).

Now I'm pretty sure that no one could complain that our CIS Cup Final was spoiled by having to sit so maybe it won't be such a big deal.

[Owain_1987]

I think the stewards did alright - it wasn't just the two in the picture - the guy in the next aisle did a lot of bobbing up and down as well. Thankfully he stopped after ten minutes and the people in the back row were left to stand and watch in peace for the majority of the game.

Since the stewards had no way of knowing before the game how many would try and stand and therefore how much ensuing aggravation there would be, it seems fair enough that they put themselves about early on.

I imagine it will be the same the first game in the new East stand next season - lots of effort early on to get the message across and then let it settle.

I don't think what hapeened in the old East will be any indication of what will happen in the new East - I think it will be more like what happens when we go to Hampden when you allways get a few trying to stay standing but they always get shouted down by those behind them (or maybe the odd instance of a steward having to tell them).

Now I'm pretty sure that no one could complain that our CIS Cup Final was spoiled by having to sit so maybe it won't be such a big deal.

Well I stood the all game in the North stand for the CIS cup final. I want to stand at football and will just have to make sure am in the back row so I can do that.

[Joe Baker II]

Well judging by the pictures it seems that this one steward, being very confrontational told a lot of people to sit down and nearly everyone adhered to it. To be honest I would say that only a very small number of people had a problem with it as most were sitting. I think peope will just have to change with the times and sit throughout the match and only stand at songs and goals etc.

Do not totally agree, plenty of people who were sitting were not at all happy at seeing people harassed for standing in back row, as posted earlier if (though I emphasise do not want to judge them too much on one game) confrontational stewarding is going to be encouraged by Hibs it will will be far from a small minority who will not see it as "moving with the times" and decide not to come back.

[Joe Baker II]

I think the stewards did alright - it wasn't just the two in the picture - the guy in the next aisle did a lot of bobbing up and down as well. Thankfully he stopped after ten minutes and the people in the back row were left to stand and watch in peace for the majority of the game.

Since the stewards had no way of knowing before the game how many would try and stand and therefore how much ensuing aggravation there would be, it seems fair enough that they put themselves about early on.

I imagine it will be the same the first game in the new East stand next season - lots of effort early on to get the message across and then let it settle.

I don't think what hapeened in the old East will be any indication of what will happen in the new East - I think it will be more like what happens when we go to Hampden when you allways get a few trying to stay standing but they always get shouted down by those behind them (or maybe the odd instance of a steward having to tell them).

Now I'm pretty sure that no one could complain that our CIS Cup Final was spoiled by having to sit so maybe it won't be such a big deal.

Actually quite a few thought this about CIS Cup final, check out posts at the time. It was certainly not nearly as good an atmosphere as the 2004 semi v Rangers when alarge minority stood at back of East Stand the whole game.

Agree with your first paragraph but rest of post seems to contradict it btw?

[Joe Baker II]

No they werent daft, they wanted to be in a stand where the atmosphere is good, and have a cheaper seat. A lot of people, myself included didnt mind standing at the games if my view was impeeded, but given the option I would sit, thats the difference.

I am just sharing my views here on what it looks like now. There wasnt a lot of people standing at the game on Saturday, and there seems only a few people intent on standing and its because of this I dont see why the club should go through a process of letting fans stand when it is quite evident that most fans are accepting the fact that you need to sit at the games. I have even spoken to people that sat in the east and were intent to stand but after going to the game at the weekend found themselves sitting down, not because they were asked to, just because when they sat, they had a good view.

Surely the club should be accommodating all fans including those who wish to stand, plenty of people had no particular desire to sit yesterday but did it out of courtesy on Saturday knowing current arrnagements are short term, I rather doubt that they will all renew season tickets next season if this is attitude Hibs are going to take though.

[Peevemor]

Do not totally agree, plenty of people who were sitting were not at all happy at seeing people harassed for standing in back row, as posted earlier if (though I emphasise do not want to judge them too much on one game) confrontational stewarding is going to be encouraged by Hibs it will will be far from a small minority who will not see it as "moving with the times" and decide not to come back.

Yeah, I'm sure the club told them to go out and piss off as many people as possible. :yawn:

[HFC 0-7]

Surely the club should be accommodating all fans including those who wish to stand, plenty of people had no particular desire to sit yesterday but did it out of courtesy on Saturday knowing current arrnagements are short term, I rather doubt that they will all renew season tickets next season if this is attitude Hibs are going to take though.

It will be a hibs rule that we are all to sit at games, but it will also be an SFA thing. IMO I dont think there are that many fans that would not renew because they cant stand at a match, and to be honest i dont think there are that many fans that really really want to stand at the matches. If you looks at the game on Saturday, I dont think all the hibs fans in the south wanted to stand. You are talking about maybe 500 fans that want to stand and probably about 100 that would talk about chucking their ST.

I think everyone needs to be realistic here, the group that really want to stand is so small it doesnt make sense to make allowances just for them. If, however, it turns out that there is a large group of fans wanting this then the club may have to think about, but as it stands it doesnt look like there are that many.

[Joe Baker II]

I think everyone needs to be realistic here, the group that really want to stand is so small it doesnt make sense to make allowances just for them. If, however, it turns out that there is a large group of fans wanting this then the club may have to think about, but as it stands it doesnt look like there are that many.

Point is that many of those who are happy to sit will not be happy if those who want to stand (regardless of whether numbers are 100 or 5,000) are amde unwlecome by Hibs and may withdraw thier support.. Then knock on effect of less atmosphere may well encourage others do to the same, only had to speak to fans on Saturday to realise there are plenty thinking this way already if the stewarding of Saturday's game proves typical of how Hibs intend to "move with the times."

[marinello59]

Point is that many of those who are happy to sit will not be happy if those who want to stand (regardless of whether numbers are 100 or 5,000) are amde unwlecome by Hibs and may withdraw thier support.. Then knock on effect of less atmosphere may well encourage others do to the same, only had to speak to fans on Saturday to realise there are plenty thinking this way already if the stewarding of Saturday's game proves typical of how Hibs intend to "move with the times."

I hope that fans do get to stand in the new East Stand but this is nonsense. Very few fans will stop going to ER if they have to sit in future.

[Speedway]

'I'm not going back until':

- The manager is sacked

- The board is sacked

- Brian Kerr is sacked

- The pizza gets made out of something other than valcanized rubber

- The stewards stop fulfilling their job descriptions

- The facilities improve

- The Price comes down

- The football improves

etc

But they keep coming back. Why don't they keep their promises to stay away?

[Arch Stanton]

Actually quite a few thought this about CIS Cup final, check out posts at the time. It was certainly not nearly as good an atmosphere as the 2004 semi v Rangers when alarge minority stood at back of East Stand the whole game.

Agree with your first paragraph but rest of post seems to contradict it btw?

No i don't think so, at least it all makes perfect sense to me anyway:greengrin

I am fine with people standing as long as they don't block other folk's view of the game. For whatever reason Hibs are not introducing a standing area so that leaves the back row for people who insist on standing.

I must say though it is difficult to relate to people who complain bitterly about this - just where is the hardship in being made to sit?

Fans wanted a single tier stand because it would improve the atmosphere at ER but now it seems the atmosphere will only improve if standing is allowed - now, that's what I call contradictory.

[Alfred E Newman]

you are not allowed to stand in the South Stand or wave offensive banners unless you support Rangers or Celtic. You should know this by now.

[Dunc89]

It will be a hibs rule that we are all to sit at games, but it will also be an SFA thing. IMO I dont think there are that many fans that would not renew because they cant stand at a match, and to be honest i dont think there are that many fans that really really want to stand at the matches. If you looks at the game on Saturday, I dont think all the hibs fans in the south wanted to stand. You are talking about maybe 500 fans that want to stand and probably about 100 that would talk about chucking their ST.

I think everyone needs to be realistic here, the group that really want to stand is so small it doesnt make sense to make allowances just for them. If, however, it turns out that there is a large group of fans wanting this then the club may have to think about, but as it stands it doesnt look like there are that many.

How are you to guage truly support for standing? Going by how many attempted to stand in the South on Saturday does not give a fair indication for a number of reasons; supporters not knowing what was acceptable to those around them (in the old stand this wasn't an issue), and supporters not wanting to be ejected/arrested (again, in the old stand this was not an issue). Thus the amount of 'standers' in the South is a much diluted number and doesn't give a true indication as to how many Hibs ST holders and (not forgetting) walk ups would, given the choice and unhindered by the abovementioned factors, stand at football matches.

There were 3 sections in the old East stand that stood. People going there new that this was the case. So this provides us a basis on which to begin guaging support for standing. In games against Hearts and the OF, the numbers of Hibs supporters choosing to stand, by their choice of stadium area, was greatly increased. As Hibs attendences go up, as does the number of supporters choosing to stand.

The problem with this though is that we are all, first and foremost, Hibs supporters, and the club knows this; we are unlikely to discontinue. The club can and will exploit this, and ignore our demands for at least a dialogue between clubs and the SFA about the introduction of the infinately sensible German model of football spectating with regulated standing areas. IMO such a model would not only discourage current Hibbys from the current (and very real) post-terracing disillusionment, but also encourage lapsed supporters back as well as new ones altogether. If we are to have any hope of regularly filling this huge new stand, Hibs have to think about how they can do this; ignoring the calls of those who wish to stand is a step in the wrong direction.

I rarely post on here, but to read such antipathy towards the needs, choices, and wishes of fellow Hibs supporters is very disheartening. Alot of the posts on this thread have a selfishness that negates the notion of the "Hibernian Family".

[HFC 0-7]

How are you to guage truly support for standing? Going by how many attempted to stand in the South on Saturday does not give a fair indication for a number of reasons; supporters not knowing what was acceptable to those around them (in the old stand this wasn't an issue), and supporters not wanting to be ejected/arrested (again, in the old stand this was not an issue). Thus the amount of 'standers' in the South is a much diluted number and doesn't give a true indication as to how many Hibs ST holders and (not forgetting) walk ups would, given the choice and unhindered by the abovementioned factors, stand at football matches.

There were 3 sections in the old East stand that stood. People going there new that this was the case. So this provides us a basis on which to begin guaging support for standing. In games against Hearts and the OF, the numbers of Hibs supporters choosing to stand, by their choice of stadium area, was greatly increased. As Hibs attendences go up, as does the number of supporters choosing to stand.

The problem with this though is that we are all, first and foremost, Hibs supporters, and the club knows this; we are unlikely to discontinue. The club can and will exploit this, and ignore our demands for at least a dialogue between clubs and the SFA about the introduction of the infinately sensible German model of football spectating with regulated standing areas. IMO such a model would not only discourage current Hibbys from the current (and very real) post-terracing disillusionment, but also encourage lapsed supporters back as well as new ones altogether. If we are to have any hope of regularly filling this huge new stand, Hibs have to think about how they can do this; ignoring the calls of those who wish to stand is a step in the wrong direction.

I rarely post on here, but to read such antipathy towards the needs, choices, and wishes of fellow Hibs supporters is very disheartening. Alot of the posts on this thread have a selfishness that negates the notion of the "Hibernian Family".

Get off your high horse!

The 3 sections in the east had to stand because of views etc. There werent that many people in the South that 'attempted' to stand, they just decided to sit themselves. The bold bit above works both ways, what about all the peole that want to sit anywhere in the new stand when its built, the people that refuse to sit down will blobk the people sittings views. Also, if a standing section was made, anything to the side of that section would have an impaired view. If you are talking about being selfish then the people that want to stand, and state that if anyone tells me to sit down they can f off are the ones being selfish. The points I am making are that the rules are set by Hibs, so anyone not adhering and causing problems for others a are selfish. Hibs have already come out and said they wont support a standing section, why cant we just move on from that and accept it. It may be the wishes for some fans that they allow smoking in the stands, but the fact is its not allowed.

I have said in previous posts that these groups should ask the club to allow standing but in the meantime adhere to the rules, anything else will just annoy them. The standees seem to have taken this view by the club as a personal attack, but its just that times change and we should go a long with it.

[Dunc89]

Get off your high horse!

The 3 sections in the east had to stand because of views etc. There werent that many people in the South that 'attempted' to stand, they just decided to sit themselves. The bold bit above works both ways, what about all the peole that want to sit anywhere in the new stand when its built, the people that refuse to sit down will blobk the people sittings views. Also, if a standing section was made, anything to the side of that section would have an impaired view. If you are talking about being selfish then the people that want to stand, and state that if anyone tells me to sit down they can f off are the ones being selfish. The points I am making are that the rules are set by Hibs, so anyone not adhering and causing problems for others a are selfish. Hibs have already come out and said they wont support a standing section, why cant we just move on from that and accept it. It may be the wishes for some fans that they allow smoking in the stands, but the fact is its not allowed.

I have said in previous posts that these groups should ask the club to allow standing but in the meantime adhere to the rules, anything else will just annoy them. The standees seem to have taken this view by the club as a personal attack, but its just that times change and we should go a long with it.

The high horse is only because emotions are running high; alot of the essence of supporting Hibs is a sense of continuity - whatever happens, you'll always be at Easter Road every other saturday. With the East coming down, this has been disrupted.

Regarding the 'standers' being selfish; this is only true if they are standing in an area where it is not regarded as the norm. That is why so many of us chose not to stand in the South, as to do so without the consent (as was implicitly the case in the old east) of those around you is indeed selfish. Once the character of a stand is allowed to develop, that's when you're able to gauge this level of acceptance, as remains to be seen in the South and indeed the new East. I very much disagree with you that 3 standing sections in the old East did so out of necessity, but arguing further will get us nowhere. In short; it's not selfish if there is implicit acceptance. "Rules are rules" as an argument doesn't really wash given how the nature of the old stand was allowed to continue despite the "rules"; much as we see at Hampden for Scotland games and other (though limited) grounds. Ignoring the ground rules does not equate to selfishness, only if the matchday experiences of others is affected negatively does it become selfish - which standing does not inherently mean.

"Why can't they just move on and accept it" ignores the point I make in the first paragraph above. For many, their experiences of Easter Road has been changed for the worse; why should they just stand by and accept it without any sort of challenge?

[vein]

Not aiming this as a dig at the folk who want to stand as I was doing the same myself last season :agree:

I was thinking today, when did folk start standing in the terracing at every game after the seats had gone in. The reason I ask this is that I used to sit in Q98 (I think!) which was right under the gantry, I had a ST there for a few years between about 1995 and 2000. During that time I can only ever remember standing for the entire match at the derbies and against the OF.

Now that I think of it I remember a game vs Celtc where Jackie Mac jr scored after a few mins, think it was around 1995. A Celtc fan jumped up celebrating. He got a fair bit abuse and more than likely a few slaps but anyway I'm sure we were all sitting at that game and that was one of the OF. I vividly remember that one as my mate was unfortunate enough to be sitting next to the daft Celtc fan and got covered in gobbings :sick:

I'm sure that the only time I would struggle to see from that seat was when the ball went down to the South East corner of the pitch.

[Beefster]

Point is that many of those who are happy to sit will not be happy if those who want to stand (regardless of whether numbers are 100 or 5,000) are amde unwlecome by Hibs and may withdraw thier support.. Then knock on effect of less atmosphere may well encourage others do to the same, only had to speak to fans on Saturday to realise there are plenty thinking this way already if the stewarding of Saturday's game proves typical of how Hibs intend to "move with the times."

You think a significant number of folk, who want to sit, will stop buying a ST because some other folk are made to sit down?

I honestly can't believe how emotional some folk are getting about having to sit on their erses.

[Steve-O]

You think a significant number of folk, who want to sit, will stop buying a ST because some other folk are made to sit down?

I honestly can't believe how emotional some folk are getting about having to sit on their erses.

This seems to apply in the opposite direction as well though?

[Antifa Hibs]

You think a significant number of folk, who want to sit, will stop buying a ST because some other folk are made to sit down?

I honestly can't believe how emotional some folk are getting about having to sit on their erses.

Same thing could be said about those that may or may not have to stand :confused:

[Peevemor]

This seems to apply in the opposite direction as well though?


Same thing could be said about those that may or may not have to stand :confused:

When you go to a match you're allocated a seat in a stand. If 2 or 3 people in front of you choose to stand, you have to stand up too if you want to see the pitch. In turn the people behind you have to do likewise.

I doubt anyone will have an issue with this in moments of excitement, but for the entire 90 minutes????

It's not about emotions or personal choice, it's about adhering to the rules that are in place (rightly ot wrongly) and, above all, respect for your fellow supporters.

If you can't see that then you have a problem.

[Antifa Hibs]

When you go to a match you're allocated a seat in a stand. If 2 or 3 people in front of you choose to stand, you have to stand up too if you want to see the pitch. In turn the people behind you have to do likewise.

I doubt anyone will have an issue with this in moments of excitement, but for the entire 90 minutes????

It's not about emotions or personal choice, it's about adhering to the rules that are in place (rightly ot wrongly) and, above all, respect for your fellow supporters.

If you can't see that then you have a problem.

This is what I don't get, cos there is a seat, why most you use? ****** the rules. Some people get allocated a seat at The Prodigy and Oasis gigs but they don't get used :confused:

There was people who stood the full 90 in Belfast on the terrace in the summer there, same dafties couldn't stand at Ibrox though a few weeks back and were giving the tap on the shoulder. Biggest hinderance to atmosphere's and any chance of a supporters scene taking off in Scotland isn't the security powers but auld awkward moaning faced barstewards who are reluctant to any change.

Obvisouly the easiest solution that would put end to this whole debate would be to issue a stand/section of whatever stand(s) for home and away fans so fans can stand and sit without any problems, giving people the choice.

Its just a shame the that powers be are thick as ******. You can stand in massive new modern terraces in Germany no bother where crowds are 50-60000 for alot of teams. Yet Aberdeen fans where getting ejected from New Douglas park for standing where there was 2000 fans in a 6000 seater, *** crazy!!!

[Peevemor]

This is what I don't get, cos there is a seat, why most you use? ****** the rules. Some people get allocated a seat at The Prodigy and Oasis gigs but they don't get used :confused:

There was people who stood the full 90 in Belfast on the terrace in the summer there, same dafties couldn't stand at Ibrox though a few weeks back and were giving the tap on the shoulder. Biggest hinderance to atmosphere's and any chance of a supporters scene taking off in Scotland isn't the security powers but auld awkward moaning faced barstewards who are reluctant to any change.

Obvisouly the easiest solution that would put end to this whole debate would be to issue a stand/section of whatever stand(s) for home and away fans so fans can stand and sit without any problems, giving people the choice.

Its just a shame the that powers be are thick as ******. You can stand in massive new modern terraces in Germany no bother where crowds are 50-60000 for alot of teams. Yet Aberdeen fans where getting ejected from New Douglas park for standing where there was 2000 fans in a 6000 seater, *** crazy!!!

I agree with most of that - I've always preferred standing at matches, however I'm a big bloke and I know I'll block the view of those behind me (and in the case of kids, even if they too are standing).

In the days of terracing this was less of a problem as people could move around - either a temporary couple of steps sideways or maybe to a quieter spot, nearer the front, etc. This is no longer the case, once you get to your seat you're stuck there regardless of whether the people in front are sitting or standing.

As I say, for me (under the current rules), it's a question of respect and consideration for those around you.

Edit: As for the bit in blue, is it not those who insist on standing that are showing the reluctance to change?

[The_Todd]

For those who say blocks 41,42 and 43 only stood because of the view - how come the other blocks in the East never stood? Their view was just as bad, surely? In fact, it was as I did sit down that end once or twice.

So, maybe it wasn't all about the view, maybe the fans in the south end of the East just downright preferred standing? I know I did, and I'm not going to pretend it was to get a better view.

I tell you what, sitting in the South on Saturday didn't half make me realise just how cold it could be when you're wearning not much more than a jumper and a Hibs shirt - never got that cold in the East!

[Joe Baker II]

How are you to guage truly support for standing? Going by how many attempted to stand in the South on Saturday does not give a fair indication for a number of reasons; supporters not knowing what was acceptable to those around them (in the old stand this wasn't an issue), and supporters not wanting to be ejected/arrested (again, in the old stand this was not an issue). Thus the amount of 'standers' in the South is a much diluted number and doesn't give a true indication as to how many Hibs ST holders and (not forgetting) walk ups would, given the choice and unhindered by the abovementioned factors, stand at football matches.

There were 3 sections in the old East stand that stood. People going there new that this was the case. So this provides us a basis on which to begin guaging support for standing. In games against Hearts and the OF, the numbers of Hibs supporters choosing to stand, by their choice of stadium area, was greatly increased. As Hibs attendences go up, as does the number of supporters choosing to stand.

The problem with this though is that we are all, first and foremost, Hibs supporters, and the club knows this; we are unlikely to discontinue. The club can and will exploit this, and ignore our demands for at least a dialogue between clubs and the SFA about the introduction of the infinately sensible German model of football spectating with regulated standing areas. IMO such a model would not only discourage current Hibbys from the current (and very real) post-terracing disillusionment, but also encourage lapsed supporters back as well as new ones altogether. If we are to have any hope of regularly filling this huge new stand, Hibs have to think about how they can do this; ignoring the calls of those who wish to stand is a step in the wrong direction.

I rarely post on here, but to read such antipathy towards the needs, choices, and wishes of fellow Hibs supporters is very disheartening. Alot of the posts on this thread have a selfishness that negates the notion of the "Hibernian Family".

Excellent posts Dunc, you have said exactly what I was trying to say regarding numbers wanting to stand and reasons for standing but lacked time/ability to get across, as you say the antipathy from some respondents (you are sad/have a problem etc is worryingly the mentality of some fans already it seems) toward those who wish to stand is seriously depressing and is ahrdly going to help us hold on to the fans we have, let alone attract new/more regular ones.

[Joe Baker II]

No i don't think so, at least it all makes perfect sense to me anyway:greengrin

I am fine with people standing as long as they don't block other folk's view of the game. For whatever reason Hibs are not introducing a standing area so that leaves the back row for people who insist on standing.

.

No problem, what you suggest would be fine if Hibs take a sensible approach to standing in the back row, that did not appear to be the case on Saturday in the South Stand.

[HFC 0-7]

For those who say blocks 41,42 and 43 only stood because of the view - how come the other blocks in the East never stood? Their view was just as bad, surely? In fact, it was as I did sit down that end once or twice.

So, maybe it wasn't all about the view, maybe the fans in the south end of the East just downright preferred standing? I know I did, and I'm not going to pretend it was to get a better view.

I tell you what, sitting in the South on Saturday didn't half make me realise just how cold it could be when you're wearning not much more than a jumper and a Hibs shirt - never got that cold in the East!

I sit in the west and when you looked and the east the sections closest to the south stood, so if you in the middle of the stand and wanted to see towards the south you would have to stand to see over all the people that stand. About halfway along the stand the people standing stopped in a diagonal line, the reason there was a diagonal line of people standing was because everyone standing behind them and to the right of them had to stand to see the pitch. If people werent standing because they had to you wouldnt get a line of people like that.

[Dunc89]

I sit in the west and when you looked and the east the sections closest to the south stood, so if you in the middle of the stand and wanted to see towards the south you would have to stand to see over all the people that stand. About halfway along the stand the people standing stopped in a diagonal line, the reason there was a diagonal line of people standing was because everyone standing behind them and to the right of them had to stand to see the pitch. If people werent standing because they had to you wouldnt get a line of people like that.

I you are in the West and unaffected by issues concerning standing, why do you so adamantly attack the choices others? As I've shown above - you wrongly associate this choice (to stand) as being automatically a hinderence to others, which is a falsehood. In arguing that people in the East stood out of necessity ignores the fact that these people could have easily opted for seats elsewhere in the ground. The majority of people who chose to go to those sections of the East did so because of it's unique environment with regard to standing.

It's all about personal choice, and it's frustrating to read people bluntly ignoring this or harp back to the meagre "rules are rules" line. Why do so many people wish to enforce their own standards upon others? If you are happy sitting in the West, then that's great. But please don't insist upon people adhering to what you think best. I liken it to going to see a band - some people like to go mental at the front, some like to stand towards the back, whilst some prepare to just sit back and watch from afar. Doesn't mean anyone is enjoying it less, it's just different approaches, different choices.

I know what existed in the old East is unlikely to survive, but that doesn't mean we should just accept it. As is stated in posts above, Hibs shouldn't really be alienating fans when we struggled to fill a stand of half the capacity of what the new stand will hold. I already know of lapsed Hibbys who are tired of the increasingly sanitised Easter Road experience who now follow Junior teams (but whom are still Hibbys), and I can understand why they've chose to do so despite the protestations of so many on here who don't consider it a big deal at all (crucially: from their own perspective). Ultimately, though, HFC Ltd. a lack the progressive and visionary edge required to help tackle an ever-disintegrating footballing experience.

We, as supporters, will have to endeavour to recreate an environment in which personal choice is allowed to truly exist. This will have to bypass the club entirely IMO - it's the only realistic and workable option. In time, a section of the new East could and should be allowed to develop organically into what had existed previously. After a time, the club, as they did in the old Stand, may come to implicitly accept the nature of such an area. This would be the ideal; an area where the supporters know what to expect (expelling any arguments of 'selfishness') and so grants true choice of spectator experience, and an area that the club grant a 'blind-eye' policy to.

If anyone fears that such actions would place the club in jeopardy in terms of safety certificate and possible SFA sanctions, I would very much doubt that this situation come to being. Whilst it has been threatened in England, the key difference is there it is statue law rather than sporting body recommendations. Another factor in this regard is that in other grounds, a 'blind-eye' approach to standing (such as parts of Tynecastle, Hampden, & Tannadice) is given and we have never witnessed even threats of repudiation of safety license/official sanctions. By your own admission, such an area would not attract huge numbers - it is not going to be the case that 6,000 people in the East will stand. It will more likely become (hopefully) what existed previously; 2-300 people who chose to stand. Exactly because the numbers aren't too huge, means that a 'blind-eye' approach isn't out of the question. Furthermore, at no point in the history or all-seater regulations were Hibs threatened with action on standing in the old East. What makes people think the authorities will have a sudden change of heart? Because it would be more enforcable? They had the best part of 15 odd years to enforce it before, yet never even attempted to.

[HFC 0-7]

I you are in the West and unaffected by issues concerning standing, why do you so adamantly attack the choices others? As I've shown above - you wrongly associate this choice (to stand) as being automatically a hinderence to others, which is a falsehood. In arguing that people in the East stood out of necessity ignores the fact that these people could have easily opted for seats elsewhere in the ground. The majority of people who chose to go to those sections of the East did so because of it's unique environment with regard to standing.

It's all about personal choice, and it's frustrating to read people bluntly ignoring this or harp back to the meagre "rules are rules" line. Why do so many people wish to enforce their own standards upon others? If you are happy sitting in the West, then that's great. But please don't insist upon people adhering to what you think best. I liken it to going to see a band - some people like to go mental at the front, some like to stand towards the back, whilst some prepare to just sit back and watch from afar. Doesn't mean anyone is enjoying it less, it's just different approaches, different choices.

I know what existed in the old East is unlikely to survive, but that doesn't mean we should just accept it. As is stated in posts above, Hibs shouldn't really be alienating fans when we struggled to fill a stand of half the capacity of what the new stand will hold. I already know of lapsed Hibbys who are tired of the increasingly sanitised Easter Road experience who now follow Junior teams (but whom are still Hibbys), and I can understand why they've chose to do so despite the protestations of so many on here who don't consider it a big deal at all (crucially: from their own perspective). Ultimately, though, HFC Ltd. a lack the progressive and visionary edge required to help tackle an ever-disintegrating footballing experience.

We, as supporters, will have to endeavour to recreate an environment in which personal choice is allowed to truly exist. This will have to bypass the club entirely IMO - it's the only realistic and workable option. In time, a section of the new East could and should be allowed to develop organically into what had existed previously. After a time, the club, as they did in the old Stand, may come to implicitly accept the nature of such an area. This would be the ideal; an area where the supporters know what to expect (expelling any arguments of 'selfishness') and so grants true choice of spectator experience, and an area that the club grant a 'blind-eye' policy to.

If anyone fears that such actions would place the club in jeopardy in terms of safety certificate and possible SFA sanctions, I would very much doubt that this situation come to being. Whilst it has been threatened in England, the key difference is there it is statue law rather than sporting body recommendations. Another factor in this regard is that in other grounds, a 'blind-eye' approach to standing (such as parts of Tynecastle, Hampden, & Tannadice) is given and we have never witnessed even threats of repudiation of safety license/official sanctions. By your own admission, such an area would not attract huge numbers - it is not going to be the case that 6,000 people in the East will stand. It will more likely become (hopefully) what existed previously; 2-300 people who chose to stand. Exactly because the numbers aren't too huge, means that a 'blind-eye' approach isn't out of the question. Furthermore, at no point in the history or all-seater regulations were Hibs threatened with action on standing in the old East. What makes people think the authorities will have a sudden change of heart? Because it would be more enforcable? They had the best part of 15 odd years to enforce it before, yet never even attempted to.

I moved to the West from the east because of the standing, I used to sit right in the middle of the stand and for a few years there wasnt much standing, just a part towrds the south that never really bothered anyone unless the play was at te south east corner, then people closest to the group that stood started standing because they were fed up of sitting down and standing up when the ball went in that area to see over the people standing. This then moved down the stand towards the middle of the stand, I can still remember a lot of people getting annoyed about having to stand because of the people standing, but they got on with it because they put it down to the bad views created by the stand itself that meant people had to stand.

I have now moved to the west as I go to games with someone that is now disabled and in a wheelchair (He wasnt in a wheelchair when we were in the east, but he couldnt stand up alot). Next season it may be that the disabled support are moved to a part in the east (If it happens I am told the disabled part will be larger than shown in the drawing because the west disabled part may be taken away due to pitch widening), so it will effect me. You seem to be taking this to heart too much, all I am saying is that the standees think they are getting a raw deal, and because many of the standees think that they are uberfans they should be accomodated, the fact is, is that the standees are in the minority so the club is trying to create a stadium that can cater for most, not all, as they will never be able to cater for everyones needs.

[Joe Baker II]

I moved to the West from the east because of the standing, I used to sit right in the middle of the stand and for a few years there wasnt much standing, just a part towrds the south that never really bothered anyone unless the play was at te south east corner, then people closest to the group that stood started standing because they were fed up of sitting down and standing up when the ball went in that area to see over the people standing. This then moved down the stand towards the middle of the stand, I can still remember a lot of people getting annoyed about having to stand because of the people standing, but they got on with it because they put it down to the bad views created by the stand itself that meant people had to stand.

I have now moved to the west as I go to games with someone that is now disabled and in a wheelchair (He wasnt in a wheelchair when we were in the east, but he couldnt stand up alot). Next season it may be that the disabled support are moved to a part in the east (If it happens I am told the disabled part will be larger than shown in the drawing because the west disabled part may be taken away due to pitch widening), so it will effect me. You seem to be taking this to heart too much, all I am saying is that the standees think they are getting a raw deal, and because many of the standees think that they are uberfans they should be accomodated, the fact is, is that the standees are in the minority so the club is trying to create a stadium that can cater for most, not all, as they will never be able to cater for everyones needs.

Difference is that you had an option to move elsewhere to somewhere that suited you, many fear that those who WANT (no evidence this is a minority, for example hibsnet and bounce polls frequently indicate a majority would prefer a limited standing area as does the conversation of many others who do not use websites for experessing football opinions) to stand will have this option unless the club shows some common sense.

And those who WANT to stand and are taking it to heart are not a small minority, and even if they were hardly means club should not accommodate them - maybe not a like for like comparision but I assume you are not suggesting club should not accommodate disabled fans because they take up too much space as they are a minority. I think the thread saying we are struggling to sell tickets for a cup quarter final (albeit there may be other reasons too) in a reduced capacity stadium in a season in which we are playing well already suggests that some did not think too much of their experience last week - and numbers would suggest it is not just those who were harassed for standing. And before one of the usaul suspects responds with a "we do not want you if you take this attitude" kneekerk, I will be going on Saturday btw.

And despite above, do stress do not want to read too much into what may have been just 1-2 idiot stewards last week, although ER stewarding has generally been pretty good it is not as this never happended before.

[Peevemor]

Difference is that you had an option to move elsewhere to somewhere that suited you, many fear that those who WANT (no evidence this is a minority, for example hibsnet and bounce polls frequently indicate a majority would prefer a limited standing area as does the conversation of many others who do not use websites for experessing football opinions) to stand will have this option unless the club shows some common sense.

And those who WANT to stand and are taking it to heart are not a small minority, and even if they were hardly means club should not accommodate them - maybe not a like for like comparision but I assume you are not suggesting club should not accommodate disabled fans because they take up too much space as they are a minority. I think the thread saying we are struggling to sell tickets for a cup quarter final (albeit there may be other reasons too) in a reduced capacity stadium in a season in which we are playing well already suggests that some did not think too much of their experience last week - and numbers would suggest it is not just those who were harassed for standing. And before one of the usaul suspects responds with a "we do not want you if you take this attitude" kneekerk, I will be going on Saturday btw.

And despite above, do stress do not want to read too much into what may have been just 1-2 idiot stewards last week, although ER stewarding has generally been pretty good it is not as this never happended before.

It's not for Hibs to decide - when are you going to realise that?

It's not just the SPL either, there's also the question of the Council safety certificate.

For all we know the club did speak to the relevant authorities about a standing area and were knocked back. :dunno: Think about it, standing area = more bodies per m² for a lower construction cost. Sounds like a Petrie plan if ever there was one.

But hey, any excuse to have a dig at the club eh?

[HFC 0-7]

Difference is that you had an option to move elsewhere to somewhere that suited you, many fear that those who WANT (no evidence this is a minority, for example hibsnet and bounce polls frequently indicate a majority would prefer a limited standing area as does the conversation of many others who do not use websites for experessing football opinions) to stand will have this option unless the club shows some common sense.

And those who WANT to stand and are taking it to heart are not a small minority, and even if they were hardly means club should not accommodate them - maybe not a like for like comparision but I assume you are not suggesting club should not accommodate disabled fans because they take up too much space as they are a minority. I think the thread saying we are struggling to sell tickets for a cup quarter final (albeit there may be other reasons too) in a reduced capacity stadium in a season in which we are playing well already suggests that some did not think too much of their experience last week - and numbers would suggest it is not just those who were harassed for standing. And before one of the usaul suspects responds with a "we do not want you if you take this attitude" kneekerk, I will be going on Saturday btw.

And despite above, do stress do not want to read too much into what may have been just 1-2 idiot stewards last week, although ER stewarding has generally been pretty good it is not as this never happended before.

Standees are in the minority, or at least people dont really care whether ot not they stand. If they reall really wanted to stand, the east would have been jam packed full every week with fans standing, in fact there was only half the stand, maybe less that stood, so when you are talking about 1500 fans that would prefer to stand then they are very much in the minority.

As for the highlighted bit above, dont be stupid! Disabled fans, mostly, dont have the ability to stand or not to take up ' too much room'

[Beefster]

Difference is that you had an option to move elsewhere to somewhere that suited you, many fear that those who WANT (no evidence this is a minority, for example hibsnet and bounce polls frequently indicate a majority would prefer a limited standing area as does the conversation of many others who do not use websites for experessing football opinions) to stand will have this option unless the club shows some common sense.

And those who WANT to stand and are taking it to heart are not a small minority, and even if they were hardly means club should not accommodate them - maybe not a like for like comparision but I assume you are not suggesting club should not accommodate disabled fans because they take up too much space as they are a minority. I think the thread saying we are struggling to sell tickets for a cup quarter final (albeit there may be other reasons too) in a reduced capacity stadium in a season in which we are playing well already suggests that some did not think too much of their experience last week - and numbers would suggest it is not just those who were harassed for standing. And before one of the usaul suspects responds with a "we do not want you if you take this attitude" kneekerk, I will be going on Saturday btw.

And despite above, do stress do not want to read too much into what may have been just 1-2 idiot stewards last week, although ER stewarding has generally been pretty good it is not as this never happended before.

The worst argument for being allowed to stand that I've ever seen....

[Greentinted]

Having kept my wee eyes on this thread for a while, may I offer perhaps a bit of a view from the inside.

I was one of the 'Nazi's' referred to in the thread for 13 years and I can assure you I empathise totally with those who wish to stand. However, as most people know, at all stadia and in every section there should be a written notice of 'Ground Regulations' placed in a prominent position. Those are the guidelines within which the steward operates. He/she does not generally do anything without being instructed, either by means of a training course (which in my day was woefully inadequate) or more often by a series of match day briefings, the salient points of which are deemed relevant to the particular areas of deployment. Most stewards are merely 'jacket-fillers' but to suggest the majority are power mad individuals with little social ability is unfair. Most are just attempting to augment their income, some actually enjoy the working environment but only a few are confrontational bullies. Sadly this thread must refer to one of the latter.

The sanction for continual standing is, of course, ejection but in the event that the ejectee becomes 'difficult' then the cops are introduced which changes the whole thing. A simple matter can quickly escalate into a breach of the peace which becomes a criminal act and dealt with accordingly. Again, IMHO thats harsh. But them's the rules and in these days of increasing accountability somebody needs to be seen doing something.

The aforementioned ground regulations state that standing is prohibited and in areas such as the late East Stand, enforcing this was a total nightmare but the steward is most likely getting grief from his supervisor, who is getting it in the neck from a senior supervisor who is, etc, etc, all the way to the Match Commander in consultation with (in this case) the Hibernian Safety and Security officer.

IMHO standing areas won't be back soon for one simple reason - money. It requires more stewards to service an area with potentially higher numbers (if standing - less space taken ergo more people) with the added bonus of easy identification of a supporter on CCTV and, in the case of misdemeanor, the higher possibility of tracing the actual person identified.

If it was down to me I would have standing areas back and maybe if an organised representation was to lobby exhaustively it may one day happen. But for now, simply saying 'nut am no goanny sit doon' will eventually get you flung oot and perhaps even slapped with a ban from the ground. And while standing is the preference for many, standing up outside exit gate 27 perhaps defeats the whole matchday experience object. A face with a cut-off nose is never that attractive...

[CropleyWasGod]

Having kept my wee eyes on this thread for a while, may I offer perhaps a bit of a view from the inside.

I was one of the 'Nazi's' referred to in the thread for 13 years and I can assure you I empathise totally with those who wish to stand. However, as most people know, at all stadia and in every section there should be a written notice of 'Ground Regulations' placed in a prominent position. Those are the guidelines within which the steward operates. He/she does not generally do anything without being instructed, either by means of a training course (which in my day was woefully inadequate) or more often by a series of match day briefings, the salient points of which are deemed relevant to the particular areas of deployment. Most stewards are merely 'jacket-fillers' but to suggest the majority are power mad individuals with little social ability is unfair. Most are just attempting to augment their income, some actually enjoy the working environment but only a few are confrontational bullies. Sadly this thread must refer to one of the latter.

The sanction for continual standing is, of course, ejection but in the event that the ejectee becomes 'difficult' then the cops are introduced which changes the whole thing. A simple matter can quickly escalate into a breach of the peace which becomes a criminal act and dealt with accordingly. Again, IMHO thats harsh. But them's the rules and in these days of increasing accountability somebody needs to be seen doing something.

The aforementioned ground regulations state that standing is prohibited and in areas such as the late East Stand, enforcing this was a total nightmare but the steward is most likely getting grief from his supervisor, who is getting it in the neck from a senior supervisor who is, etc, etc, all the way to the Match Commander in consultation with (in this case) the Hibernian Safety and Security officer.

IMHO standing areas won't be back soon for one simple reason - money. It requires more stewards to service an area with potentially higher numbers (if standing - less space taken ergo more people) with the added bonus of easy identification of a supporter on CCTV and, in the case of misdemeanor, the higher possibility of tracing the actual person identified.

If it was down to me I would have standing areas back and maybe if an organised representation was to lobby exhaustively it may one day happen. But for now, simply saying 'nut am no goanny sit doon' will eventually get you flung oot and perhaps even slapped with a ban from the ground. And while standing is the preference for many, standing up outside exit gate 27 perhaps defeats the whole matchday experience object. A face with a cut-off nose is never that attractive...

I'm no having it. You lot are supposed to be sub-human fascists with an IQ in the low 1's. You must have got a pal to write that.


:greengrin

[Removed]

I'm no having it. You lot are supposed to be sub-human fascists with an IQ in the low 1's. You must have got a pal to write that.


:greengrin

:greengrin Aye, was a good post Greentinted, but 13 years :bitchy:

[Antifa Hibs]

Having kept my wee eyes on this thread for a while, may I offer perhaps a bit of a view from the inside.

I was one of the 'Nazi's' referred to in the thread for 13 years and I can assure you I empathise totally with those who wish to stand. However, as most people know, at all stadia and in every section there should be a written notice of 'Ground Regulations' placed in a prominent position. Those are the guidelines within which the steward operates. He/she does not generally do anything without being instructed, either by means of a training course (which in my day was woefully inadequate) or more often by a series of match day briefings, the salient points of which are deemed relevant to the particular areas of deployment. Most stewards are merely 'jacket-fillers' but to suggest the majority are power mad individuals with little social ability is unfair. Most are just attempting to augment their income, some actually enjoy the working environment but only a few are confrontational bullies. Sadly this thread must refer to one of the latter.

The sanction for continual standing is, of course, ejection but in the event that the ejectee becomes 'difficult' then the cops are introduced which changes the whole thing. A simple matter can quickly escalate into a breach of the peace which becomes a criminal act and dealt with accordingly. Again, IMHO thats harsh. But them's the rules and in these days of increasing accountability somebody needs to be seen doing something.

The aforementioned ground regulations state that standing is prohibited and in areas such as the late East Stand, enforcing this was a total nightmare but the steward is most likely getting grief from his supervisor, who is getting it in the neck from a senior supervisor who is, etc, etc, all the way to the Match Commander in consultation with (in this case) the Hibernian Safety and Security officer.

IMHO standing areas won't be back soon for one simple reason - money. It requires more stewards to service an area with potentially higher numbers (if standing - less space taken ergo more people) with the added bonus of easy identification of a supporter on CCTV and, in the case of misdemeanor, the higher possibility of tracing the actual person identified.

If it was down to me I would have standing areas back and maybe if an organised representation was to lobby exhaustively it may one day happen. But for now, simply saying 'nut am no goanny sit doon' will eventually get you flung oot and perhaps even slapped with a ban from the ground. And while standing is the preference for many, standing up outside exit gate 27 perhaps defeats the whole matchday experience object. A face with a cut-off nose is never that attractive...

Ground regulations state spectators can stand for short periods of time and at moments of excitement, how long is a short period of time and how can one define a moment of excitement..?

Serious question(s)

[Joe Baker II]

[QUOTE=Peevemor®;2381814]It's not for Hibs to decide - when are you going to realise that? It's not just the SPL either, there's also the question of the Council safety certificate.

For all we know the club did speak to the relevant authorities about a standing area and were knocked back. :dunno: Think about it, standing area = more bodies per m² for a lower construction cost. Sounds like a Petrie plan if ever there was one.
QUOTE]

Given that Hibs were a prominent club in the founding of the SPL that insisted on the ludicrous all seater restrictions for entry to the SPL, the attitude of the club representatives at the forums in 2007 and the lack of any evidence to the contrary of the speaking to authorities, I rather suspect not. Council have done nothing about standing previously, again no indication they have suddenly done u-turn.

I assume the likelihood of being forced to reduced prices (albeit fact many may actually be willing to pay more) if standing intorduced may not have encouraged Petrie.

[Joe Baker II]

The worst argument for being allowed to stand that I've ever seen....

Was more in response to implication that club should only cater for majorities.

[Joe Baker II]

The aforementioned ground regulations state that standing is prohibited and in areas such as the late East Stand, enforcing this was a total nightmare but the steward is most likely getting grief from his supervisor, who is getting it in the neck from a senior supervisor who is, etc, etc, all the way to the Match Commander in consultation with (in this case) the Hibernian Safety and Security officer.

IMHO standing areas won't be back soon for one simple reason - money. It requires more stewards to service an area with potentially higher numbers (if standing - less space taken ergo more people) with the added bonus of easy identification of a supporter on CCTV and, in the case of misdemeanor, the higher possibility of tracing the actual person identified.



Re the first paragaraph I think the hyperbolic Nazi analogy was at the "it ok as I am obeying orders approach" as much as physically aggressive stewarding (though I have not gone back to read original post) - this would suggest that this mnetality IS prevalent among stewards.

Do not think the money argument stands up, more fans also means more money and stewards are so lowly paid anyway (part of the problem) that it would be immaterial for club (even extra police costs for OF games are only £3k more than other games at ER and part of this is often for enhanced rates for weekend work), sadly you may be correct on CCTV issue but if this is clubs priority it is pretty sad.

[Peevemor]

Given that Hibs were a prominent club in the founding of the SPL that insisted on the ludicrous all seater restrictions for entry to the SPL, the attitude of the club representatives at the forums in 2007 and the lack of any evidence to the contrary of the speaking to authorities, I rather suspect not. Council have done nothing about standing previously, again no indication they have suddenly done u-turn.

I assume the likelihood of being forced to reduced prices (albeit fact many may actually be willing to pay more) if standing intorduced may not have encouraged Petrie.

Hibs don't make statements until something's a done deal.

We can speculate all we want but where I like to give the benefit of the doubt, you seem to focus on any miniscule negative, multiply it by 100, transform it into fact and go on to slate how the club is run (despite it being a good example for most in Scotland).

Do you like anything about Hibs?

[HFC 0-7]

sadly you may be correct on CCTV issue but if this is clubs priority it is pretty sad[/B].

The CCTV part is very much true IMO also, after clubs took on board the recomendations of the taylor report, trouble at football matches declined rapidly.

Quote from the taylor report: -

"All-seater stadiums have resulted in cases of football hooliganism decreasing significantly, meaning that incidents of violence inside football grounds have become almost non-existent. In addition, arrests for football-related crimes have reduced dramatically since the late 1980's whilst attendances have risen steadily. "

Having standing areas is much harder to police and the risk of things 'kicking off' if police do need to intervene is much higher, therefore there needs to be a bigger police presence which in turn means more cash paid out by the club.

[Joe Baker II]

Standees are in the minority, or at least people dont really care whether ot not they stand. If they reall really wanted to stand, the east would have been jam packed full every week with fans standing, in fact there was only half the stand, maybe less that stood, so when you are talking about 1500 fans that would prefer to stand then they are very much in the minority.



Careful on numbers, there are also people like me who did sit down the East Stand most of the time but appreicated fact standing was tolerated (who I suspect were the majority there, there will be others who went elsewhere in stadium who feel the same), but will not be happy if games like Saturday prove the norm. And surely Hibs cannot be wanting to alienate 1,500 fans if that is the right number.

[HFC 0-7]

Careful on numbers, there are also people like me who did sit down the East Stand most of the time but appreicated fact standing was tolerated (who I suspect were the majority there, there will be others who went elsewhere in stadium who feel the same), but will not be happy if games like Saturday prove the norm. And surely Hibs cannot be wanting to alienate 1,500 fans if that is the right number.

Dont know what you are getting at saying that you sat most of the time but appreciated it was tolerated. Also, the club wont be alienating 1,500 fans as most of them will just accept that times change and they wont moan about it, as I think was displayed at the weekend. The club will try to accomodate fans where possible, but what you want the club to do would be to go against a recomendation (the taylor report) that every top flight club in britain try and adhere to. The club could be put in a difficult position should something happen and someone is hurt. It would be easier to be crushed if you are in a standing area, also if there are problems with behaviour, which seems to have disappeared since standing went then the club can get fines etc. I think for the club to build a great stadium with great views and good facilities is a great comprimise IMO. The standees can sit, and stand for some songs etc, and watch the game from a great viewpoint.

[dennykillie]

How is it that it appears that non-Old Firm fans decide to stand, the stewards/police appear to come down heavy on them, while I have witnessed most of THEIR fans standing for the whole game at Rugby Park with nothing being done - safety in numbers?

Also, I was among the Irvine Meadow fans who almost all stood for the entire Cup game in the South Stand - again safety in numbers?

So there is the answer, if you ALL decide to stand, there isn't much that can be done.

A final word on the stewards: two of these knobheads on Saturday rushed all the way to the back of the lower tier, past several standing Killie fans to insist that a Moroccan guy with a national flag, supporting Killie (Mehdi Taoull's his mate) sit down - racist perhaps?

Anyway, good luck for the rest of the season. I hope that you or United can split those Weegie ****.

However, let's hope that we both get to the Cup final - we NEED revenge for the last time!!!

:wink:

[HFC 0-7]

How is it that it appears that non-Old Firm fans decide to stand, the stewards/police appear to come down heavy on them, while I have witnessed most of THEIR fans standing for the whole game at Rugby Park with nothing being done - safety in numbers?

Also, I was among the Irvine Meadow fans who almost all stood for the entire Cup game in the South Stand - again safety in numbers?

So there is the answer, if you ALL decide to stand, there isn't much that can be done.

A final word on the stewards: two of these knobheads on Saturday rushed all the way to the back of the lower tier, past several standing Killie fans to insist that a Moroccan guy with a national flag, supporting Killie (Mehdi Taoull's his mate) sit down - racist perhaps?

Anyway, good luck for the rest of the season. I hope that you or United can split those Weegie ****.

However, let's hope that we both get to the Cup final - we NEED revenge for the last time!!!

:wink:

Its easier for away fans to get away with it as its difficult for the home club to do anything about, home fans with season tickets can be warned about doing it in future.

[Joe Baker II]

Its easier for away fans to get away with it as its difficult for the home club to do anything about, home fans with season tickets can be warned about doing it in future.

His point was that different sets of away fans are treated differently.

What you say for home fans probably correct, potentially another disincentive to get season tickets though.

[Joe Baker II]

Dont know what you are getting at saying that you sat most of the time but appreciated it was tolerated. Also, the club wont be alienating 1,500 fans as most of them will just accept that times change and they wont moan about it, as I think was displayed at the weekend. The club will try to accomodate fans where possible, but what you want the club to do would be to go against a recomendation (the taylor report) that every top flight club in britain try and adhere to. The club could be put in a difficult position should something happen and someone is hurt. It would be easier to be crushed if you are in a standing area, also if there are problems with behaviour, which seems to have disappeared since standing went then the club can get fines etc. I think for the club to build a great stadium with great views and good facilities is a great comprimise IMO. The standees can sit, and stand for some songs etc, and watch the game from a great viewpoint.

Know its been siad by others but if it that was that dangerous it would have been delat with in old East Stand, no one saw it as a major issue then and there is no need for it to be now.

[Joe Baker II]

The CCTV part is very much true IMO also, after clubs took on board the recomendations of the taylor report, trouble at football matches declined rapidly.

Quote from the taylor report: -

"All-seater stadiums have resulted in cases of football hooliganism decreasing significantly, meaning that incidents of violence inside football grounds have become almost non-existent. In addition, arrests for football-related crimes have reduced dramatically since the late 1980's whilst attendances have risen steadily. "

Having standing areas is much harder to police and the risk of things 'kicking off' if police do need to intervene is much higher, therefore there needs to be a bigger police presence which in turn means more cash paid out by the club.

1 This paragraph is blatant propaganda and there are many ways these statements could be if not disproved, certainly challenged. For example was it sort of stadia that bred trouble rather than standing per see, is all seated grounds only reason for decline in violence, did more repressive measures in grounds transport trouble elsewhere, have arrests fallen because police tactics changed

I would strongly suspect late 1980s were a 40 year-high in terms of attendances for many Scottish clubs. Not convinced they were particular high point in terms of "arrests for football-related crimes" either, if anything the opposite. Seems a very English-focused quote therefore.

2nd paragraph - not neccesarily inaccurate but actual figures not material in relation to overall turnover of football clubs, also given you claim only 5-10% of fans want dtanding areas the actual areas would be pretty small, I do not see it likely we will return to grounds where 90% of the capacity terracing.

[Joe Baker II]

Hibs don't make statements until something's a done deal.

We can speculate all we want but where I like to give the benefit of the doubt, you seem to focus on any miniscule negative, multiply it by 100, transform it into fact and go on to slate how the club is run.

Do you like anything about Hibs?

Other posts slating the running of Socttish football are frequent on here and frequent viewpoint is that much of running of Scotitsh football is characterised by idiocy and lack of vision and consderation for supporters - the idea that Hibs are an oasis of competence and common sense is naive, to say the least.

I like Hibs enough to have been regular attender for 34 years, have had season ticket from 1994-2009, go to 5-6 away games normally per season, followed them in Europe (once only but have not been many opportunities), am member of ErinHibs Trust. So I hope I like somethings about Hibs, although frustation at the continual failings of the management of the club is one of the less enjoyable parts of supporting them!

[bighairyfaeleith]

Another display of ignorance and heavy handied tactics by that prick of a steward in the south today.

If he keeps on like that he is going to cause a riot, I sincerely hope someone at hibs realises and tells them to calm it a bit

Anyway, back to talking about how **** we where today

[Dunbar Hibee]

Another display of ignorance and heavy handied tactics by that prick of a steward in the south today.

If he keeps on like that he is going to cause a riot, I sincerely hope someone at hibs realises and tells them to calm it a bit

Anyway, back to talking about how **** we where today

:agree:Total bellend of man. Thinks he's the ****in man in his wee rent a cop outfit, idiot.

[Gatecrasher]

Why did they wait till about 20 mins to go to tell folk to sit down? (in the top tier) and there was loads of Ross county fans standing as well

[Dunbar Hibee]

Why did they wait till about 20 mins to go to tell folk to sit down? (in the top tier) and there was loads of Ross county fans standing as well

:agree:I was right up the back and they told me to sit down i was baffled.Fannies

[madabouthibs]

I was in the FF and seen a couple of Hibs boys get chucked out the South upper by the stewards from the top tier early in the first half. Looked like some good back and forth banter with the RC fans, but I didn't notice any RC fans get launched.

[Ed De Gramo]

I was in the FF and seen a couple of Hibs boys get chucked out the South upper by the stewards from the top tier early in the first half. Looked like some good back and forth banter with the RC fans, but I didn't notice any RC fans get launched.

looked like 4 people getting launched because they were threatening the RC fans who were nearest them...

[The_Todd]

Why did they wait till about 20 mins to go to tell folk to sit down? (in the top tier) and there was loads of Ross county fans standing as well

Same as me, I was in RR (very top row) and at around 70 minutes I thought I'd got away with standing for the whole thing until we were all told to sit down.

Cue "Stand up if you hate the Jambos" being belted out!

But still, weird - and they never tried it with the county fans?


I was in the FF and seen a couple of Hibs boys get chucked out the South upper by the stewards from the top tier early in the first half. Looked like some good back and forth banter with the RC fans, but I didn't notice any RC fans get launched.

They'd spent prematch and the first phase of the first half shouting and swearing at the county fans. They weren't paying the slightest bit of attention to the match from what I saw.

[hibeenicol]

There was around 6 of them throwing out for abusive language etc. I was also told to sit down and stop goading ross county fans. I asked why it was only us that were told to sit down etc and the steward said he would be speaking to the ross county fans as well. Never seen him do this though.

[Joe Baker II]

Another display of ignorance and heavy handied tactics by that prick of a steward in the south today.

If he keeps on like that he is going to cause a riot, I sincerely hope someone at hibs realises and tells them to calm it a bit

Anyway, back to talking about how **** we where today

From a distance the stewarding in the Hibs area looked more relaxed on Saturday and standing at back seemed to be tolerated, league games the real test though.

For goodness sake write to club about this guy though, Hibs will I think take it up if they keep getting complaints.

[Andy74]

From a distance the stewarding in the Hibs area looked more relaxed on Saturday and standing at back seemed to be tolerated, league games the real test though.

For goodness sake write to club about this guy though, Hibs will I think take it up if they keep getting complaints.

Or Hibs might say sit in the seat like you've been asked and listen to what the stewards are telling you?? :greengrin

[CMac1988]

Same as me, I was in RR (very top row) and at around 70 minutes I thought I'd got away with standing for the whole thing until we were all told to sit down.

Cue "Stand up if you hate the Jambos" being belted out!

But still, weird - and they never tried it with the county fans?


Was sitting in RR (seat 104 I think) between the 2 sets of stairs where there were a bunch of folk standing and when "Stand up..." was belted out I couldn't help but grin like a chesire cat, thought that was class. Pity he just stood there until it stopped then persisted with telling fans to sit down again.

Asked why we were being targeted yet a section of the County fans stood for the whole game... No answer :grr:

Anyway that and the physio race were the Highlights of the day. Gave me the chuckles :greengrin.

[Brizo]

What I witnessed in the back row of the south stand upper on saturday was three guys (an Asian guy and a couple of stone island wannabee casuals) who stood whenever they could. They were about the only ones standing at the extreme west end of that stand. Their standing didnt bother me but at the final whistle instead of exiting down the aisles like everyone else they climbed down the seats thumping down hard on each seat as they went. These trumpets were definitely attempting to damage our own seats as they went out:grr:

If thats the calibre of the stand up campaigners im glad im a sit dooner :devil: