Hard men and Hibs' footballing tradition

[Mag7]

One of the pleasures of supporting Hibs is that they are recognised as a club that by and large places the emphasis on attacking, attractive football. It doesn't always work out that way by any stretch of the imagination but it's the correct ethos for a club to have IMHO (and it irritates the hell out of the yams when they constantly see Hibs described in this way as opposed to the up and at 'em hoofball associated wtih Hearts).

However, the downside of this approach is that it often means there's no room for a hard man or two in the team which makes it easy for teams to bully Hibs, especially at this time of year when pitches are less than pristine. On paper we have a squad as good or better than everyone bar the Old Firm but that doesn't always translate to the pitch.

Nevertheless, those of us who recall Turnbull's Tornadoes will know that it IS possible to mix steel with skill. John Blackley and Alex Edwards were both tremendous footballers but were also hard as nails. Erich Schaedler may not have been as skilful but he was still a hell of a good guy to have on the field with his never say die approach.

Since then I'd say the only Hibs team which has displayed anything close to that sort of mix is Alex McLeish's side. Mathias Jack wasn't a great player but he played the tough guy role to great effect, while everyone knows what a player Franck Sauzee was. Tough but supremely talented and a footballer who would have graced Turnbull's side.

I always felt Alex Miller's sides lacked a regular tough guy or two and it was noticeable that while he was blessed with probably the best two goalkeepers Scotland has produced in Andy Goram and Jim Leighton, he won his only trophy at Hibs with John Burridge in goal - not a patch on the other two as a keeper but a tremendous motivator and tough as old boots.

Tony Mowbray took us to 3rd and 4th in successive seasons without any really tough guys (with the exception of maybe Scott Brown) but his sides did still display a tendency to fall away when the chips were down and while the introduction of a bit of presence with guys like Rob Jones did help a bit, he was never a talented enough footballer to make a consistent impression.

I look at the current side and I'm struggling to see anyone who can really 'boss' the team, apart from the manager. Ian Murray is a great player and has a terrific attitude but he can't do it alone.

I look around Scottish football in general and there's a real lack of such characters. Do they still exist or have players all gone soft?

[hibbie02]

Are you saying we need AOB back then??? :greengrin

[Bayern Bru]

Bring back thierry!

[Viva_Palmeiras]

One of the pleasures of supporting Hibs is that they are recognised as a club that by and large places the emphasis on attacking, attractive football. It doesn't always work out that way by any stretch of the imagination but it's the correct ethos for a club to have IMHO (and it irritates the hell out of the yams when they constantly see Hibs described in this way as opposed to the up and at 'em hoofball associated wtih Hearts).

However, the downside of this approach is that it often means there's no room for a hard man or two in the team which makes it easy for teams to bully Hibs, especially at this time of year when pitches are less than pristine. On paper we have a squad as good or better than everyone bar the Old Firm but that doesn't always translate to the pitch.

Nevertheless, those of us who recall Turnbull's Tornadoes will know that it IS possible to mix steel with skill. John Blackley and Alex Edwards were both tremendous footballers but were also hard as nails. Erich Schaedler may not have been as skilful but he was still a hell of a good guy to have on the field with his never say die approach.

Since then I'd say the only Hibs team which has displayed anything close to that sort of mix is Alex McLeish's side. Mathias Jack wasn't a great player but he played the tough guy role to great effect, while everyone knows what a player Franck Sauzee was. Tough but supremely talented and a footballer who would have graced Turnbull's side.

I always felt Alex Miller's sides lacked a regular tough guy or two and it was noticeable that while he was blessed with probably the best two goalkeepers Scotland has produced in Andy Goram and Jim Leighton, he won his only trophy at Hibs with John Burridge in goal - not a patch on the other two as a keeper but a tremendous motivator and tough as old boots.

Tony Mowbray took us to 3rd and 4th in successive seasons without any really tough guys (with the exception of maybe Scott Brown) but his sides did still display a tendency to fall away when the chips were down and while the introduction of a bit of presence with guys like Rob Jones did help a bit, he was never a talented enough footballer to make a consistent impression.

I look at the current side and I'm struggling to see anyone who can really 'boss' the team, apart from the manager. Ian Murray is a great player and has a terrific attitude but he can't do it alone.

I look around Scottish football in general and there's a real lack of such characters. Do they still exist or have players all gone soft?

Wasn't that hard - IIRC went off injured in the 6-2 game - wimp!

Seriously imagine missing out on staying on the park for the full 90 - must have been a bit hacked off.

[davemcbain]

Every great team has had a midfield hardman and Iain Murray ain't that. Not always big players, but not afraid to get stuck in.

Think players like Steve McMahon, David Batty, Gordon Strachan, Sammy Lee, Norman Whiteside etc etc even Souness <spit> and, why not, Vinnie Jones.

None were real playmakers, but they held the side together.

Sauzee did it for us brilliantly. Shaun Dennis may have come close and I think McBride is growing into that role.

It's something Hibs have lacked more often than not.

[Westie1875]

Get McCormack in the team :take that:wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Don't you think the game has changed, though?

Tackles that, in earlier times, would not have even merited a word from a referee are now being carded, sometimes with a sending off. When you look at, eg, old Leeds games from the 70's, some of their play was brutal... and they weren't alone. Players like Jack Charlton and Ron Harris wouldn't have had a career nowadays, because clubs just wouldn't employ them.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Every great team has had a midfield hardman and Iain Murray ain't that. Not always big players, but not afraid to get stuck in.

Think players like Steve McMahon, David Batty, Gordon Strachan, Sammy Lee, Norman Whiteside etc etc even Souness <spit> and, why not, Vinnie Jones.

None were real playmakers, but they held the side together.

Sauzee did it for us brilliantly. Shaun Dennis may have come close and I think McBride is growing into that role.

It's something Hibs have lacked more often than not.

:faf: Do I win £5?

[Mibbes Aye]

Every great team has had a midfield hardman and Iain Murray ain't that. Not always big players, but not afraid to get stuck in.

Think players like Steve McMahon, David Batty, Gordon Strachan, Sammy Lee, Norman Whiteside etc etc even Souness <spit> and, why not, Vinnie Jones.

None were real playmakers, but they held the side together.

Sauzee did it for us brilliantly. Shaun Dennis may have come close and I think McBride is growing into that role.

It's something Hibs have lacked more often than not.

:shocked:

Not wishing to be mean but I suspect Stefan or Les might have come closer.

[LEaston87]

I would put Ian Murray in the hard-man bracket, although he isnt the most vocal and doesnt stamp his authority like other hard men but he never shys away from a tackle and leads by example