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View Full Version : No Physical Presence (Again)



The Harp Awakes
28-02-2010, 01:48 AM
We are a team of weak midgets in a league of giant plodders.

I hope we never attempt to play the hoofball which St J, Dundee U and Hertz play week in week out but we are becoming so predictable in our team selection and tactics that other teams must now look forward to playing us.

We are suffering for the lack of activity in the January tansfer window when we needed to sign a right back and a midfielder with physical presence.

Big learning points for Yogi.

noseyhibby
28-02-2010, 02:56 AM
We are a team of weak midgets in a league of giant plodders.

I hope we never attempt to play the hoofball which St J, Dundee U and Hertz play week in week out but we are becoming so predictable in our team selection and tactics that other teams must now look forward to playing us.

We are suffering for the lack of activity in the January tansfer window when we needed to sign a right back and a midfielder with physical presence.

Big learning points for Yogi.

I agree. I checked out the Saints fans forum and came across a poster talking about this very issue. He went to the 5-1 game and prior to the kick off actually commented to a pal about how thin and small a lot of the Hibs players looked as they warmed up. How right he was. Hibs were simply brushed aside through sheer physical presence and an in-your-face approach from St Johnstone. Yogi really does need to bring in guys who can cope with those wintry wars of attrition, where pitches are trenches and the hoofball is all anyone can play, and where digging in means rolling up the sleeves and giving as good as one receives. Apart from Bamba, who do we have that is intimidating? Over to you Yogi. Roll on the next transfer window.

BEEJ
28-02-2010, 09:59 AM
Hibs were simply brushed aside through sheer physical presence and an in-your-face approach from St Johnstone. Yogi really does need to bring in guys who can cope with those wintry wars of attrition, where pitches are trenches and the hoofball is all anyone can play, and where digging in means rolling up the sleeves and giving as good as one receives. Apart from Bamba, who do we have that is intimidating? Over to you Yogi. Roll on the next transfer window.
In a recent interview Yogi confirmed that he has been looking for players of that ilk.

Golden Bear
28-02-2010, 10:13 AM
There's no doubt that a lack of real physical presence in the team has been a big factor behind the recent poor performances.

The team is fine provided the opposition give them time to pass the ball about. However when they're up against a team with a more physical "in ye're face" approach then that's when the cracks really show up.

I don't like saying it, but physicality is becoming more and more a factor in today's game and sadly skill doesn't always win - especially when the playing surfaces become heavy and uneven.

We all can see it - I just hope that through time our scouting, youth coaching and signing policies take recognition of this.

stubru59
28-02-2010, 10:31 AM
Physical presence comes in many guises. Nish, for example, is a big lad but hardly comes into the physical presence category.

Physical presence needs the added dimension of grit. Without that you may just as well play someone 4-5 inches shorter.

David Murphy was a perfect example of this. Not the biggest of players but had the required physical presence.

J-C
28-02-2010, 10:32 AM
We are a team of weak midgets in a league of giant plodders.

I hope we never attempt to play the hoofball which St J, Dundee U and Hertz play week in week out but we are becoming so predictable in our team selection and tactics that other teams must now look forward to playing us.

We are suffering for the lack of activity in the January tansfer window when we needed to sign a right back and a midfielder with physical presence.

Big learning points for Yogi.


We don't need big plodders, or play hoofball, what is needed is a strong aggresive, tackling midfielder ala Matty Jack to shore up the midfield. We have too many small players, a problem we've had for the past 4-5 years, I would like to see Bamba put back there.

Craig_in_Prague
28-02-2010, 10:33 AM
Probably why McLeish's team were my favourite out of the best of the recent times......They could play very good football, yet were a physical side too.

Guys like Fenwick, Mixu, Matty Jack et al, we were never bossed about and then we had O'Neil, Latapy etc to play the football.
Sauzee was actually both strong and could play.

Andy74
28-02-2010, 01:54 PM
Nothing Hughes doesn't know. Work in progess remember.

Franck is God
28-02-2010, 02:07 PM
Nothing Hughes doesn't know. Work in progess remember.

Agree, Yogi knows exacty what we need but this type of player is not easy for a club like us to sign and keep.

I also think that if we had a decent pitch at ER right now then the 'size' of our players wouldn't be as much of an issue. Hopefully when we replace the pitch in the summer it will last a bit better than this years and we won't need to fill the middle of the pitch with plodders and resort to the hoofball we've been playing at home for the last few weeks...

Love the Green
28-02-2010, 05:17 PM
:wink:
Nothing Hughes doesn't know. Work in progess remember.

Here we go again "work in progress"

hear it after evry pathetic performance which is now weekly...aprta from keepers the work in progress seems to be rainef off due to weather....stevie wonderr can see we nee a strong physical presence right up the back bone of the team CH, CM and CF add a RB and then we may be a "work in progress" club but at the moment seems like it is a stike in progress,

"keep the faith" :wink:

allmodcons
28-02-2010, 05:46 PM
I agree. I checked out the Saints fans forum and came across a poster talking about this very issue. He went to the 5-1 game and prior to the kick off actually commented to a pal about how thin and small a lot of the Hibs players looked as they warmed up. How right he was. Hibs were simply brushed aside through sheer physical presence and an in-your-face approach from St Johnstone. Yogi really does need to bring in guys who can cope with those wintry wars of attrition, where pitches are trenches and the hoofball is all anyone can play, and where digging in means rolling up the sleeves and giving as good as one receives. Apart from Bamba, who do we have that is intimidating? Over to you Yogi. Roll on the next transfer window.

:faf: That'll explain why our scrawny wee team are 16 points ahead of SJ in the league table.

Toaods
28-02-2010, 09:15 PM
:faf: That'll explain why our scrawny wee team are 16 points ahead of SJ in the league table.



the usual answer to any gripes non-Old Firm fans are given when making similar points.

bottom line is we are too weak physically. Deuchar and Sheridan caused wreaked havoc yesterday. We need another central defender who is similar in stature to Bamba.

People rattle on about the inclusion of 'pure' football being a necessity in the way we try to perform but that has to be supplemented with a bit more steel.

allmodcons
28-02-2010, 10:06 PM
the usual answer to any gripes non-Old Firm fans are given when making similar points.

bottom line is we are too weak physically. Deuchar and Sheridan caused wreaked havoc yesterday. We need another central defender who is similar in stature to Bamba.

People rattle on about the inclusion of 'pure' football being a necessity in the way we try to perform but that has to be supplemented with a bit more steel.

You'll need to explain your first sentence to me Toaods.

With regard to your second, everybody (including Yogi) knows we need a CH, so you're simply stating the obvious.

As for your third point, I'm in agreement with you here, but not of the school of thought that we should be making wholesale changes to the present squad of players.

There's no point bringing in players just because they have a physical presence. FFS someone on here yesterday suggested we should be considering signing Martin Canning.

Hibernating (Im a stoopid yam tramp)
28-02-2010, 10:35 PM
If Peter Jackson needs a few extras for the Hobbit I know a place...:greengrin

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/javaImages/3c/33/0,,10290~6959932,00.jpg

Viva_Palmeiras
28-02-2010, 11:03 PM
:wink:

Here we go again "work in progress"

hear it after evry pathetic performance which is now weekly...aprta from keepers the work in progress seems to be rainef off due to weather....stevie wonderr can see we nee a strong physical presence right up the back bone of the team CH, CM and CF add a RB and then we may be a "work in progress" club but at the moment seems like it is a stike in progress,

"keep the faith" :wink:

Eh no, I think you'll find that Yogi is no mug and was saying this as we climbed the table putting runs together.

Keep the faith:wink:

Kevvy1875
28-02-2010, 11:07 PM
Anyone notice the corralation?

Hibs+Yogi= Passing team with 'technical' players.

We played our best stuff and opened up teams in the first few months of the season when the pitches were still in decent nick. Is it really any surprise that the more physical teams put up a better showing on the quagmires that are impossible to get a quick passing game going on?

East mains? I am willing to bet those pitches are immaculate and thats what Hibs train on all week. Come Saturday? Playing on a surface the equivelant of the Somme or Passchendale. Perhaps we should train on a tattie field? Or perhaps we should invest in some of these UV lights and make sure that at least ER will suit our game.

In saying all this, our players should still be able to roll their sleeves up and grind it out. At least the rot has been stopped and hopefully we can get back to winning ways next game before the important SC tie.

Toaods
28-02-2010, 11:29 PM
You'll need to explain your first sentence to me Toaods.


perhaps not too well put on my part.

I suppose it's the points difference being brought into it, ie Hearts fans defend their teams greatness by being x points ahead of us year after year, despite the fact they are usual industrial boot boys from the goalie out.

we'll say aye, but you're crap. They are convinced they are good, because they churn out drab wins by the odd goal.

Keith_M
01-03-2010, 03:10 PM
We played our best stuff and opened up teams in the first few months of the season when the pitches were still in decent nick. Is it really any surprise that the more physical teams put up a better showing on the quagmires that are impossible to get a quick passing game going on?




I agree.

The problem is, this is a situation that'll come up every season when the pitches start to deteriorate. If we resort to punting the ball up front, as seems to have been the case recently, we need someone with an actual physical presence that can hold off the bigger defenders, take the ball down and lay it off.

Though that would put paid to the 'Deek and Stokes up front' argument, at this time of the year at least.

Stine
01-03-2010, 03:40 PM
I don't think it is coincidence that since the pitches have started to break up the results have dried up. We could resort to throwing big bamba into midfield and trying to battle with other teams but Yogi is trying to stick to a philosophy that will help in the long run. Continuing to play expansive attractive football is really the only way we can bring scottish football out of the mire, pardon the pun, that we are in. The old style of scottish football has its place and in fairness it is successful at the level we play at because the skill level is not high enough. The weather and pitches do not stop the Russians playing great football, but that is a grass roots philosophy that they have garnered over the years. They simply refuse to punt it up the park.

Yes it is a results driven business but, is it not important at a national level to change that. Ok introduce the winter break, or summer football, that will avoid bad pitches and maybe entice teams like St johnstone to play the ball on the deck. On saturday i had my head in my hands not because of our play but because of theirs. It was depressing to say the least.

Currently we dont have a big ball playing midfielder, ok Bamba aint that bad with it at his feet, but maybe not want yogi wants at the moment. I honestly think come the split as pitches improve you will see an improved hibs. It didnt help on sat that nish had a horrible game, because we had plenty chances to win.

Also i think that Stevenson was very good, time and time again he picked out decent passes, trying to push play forward, and despite getting given a couple of hospital passes he managed to wriggle his way out of bad situations. On a decent pitch against a team that maybe wants to play football i can see good things, yes you can argue that its a horses for courses thing, but overall i was impressed.

So, yes a big ball playing player in the summer would be nice, but in the mean time lets get back into third, and continue to play good football.

HFC 0-7
01-03-2010, 07:30 PM
We are a team of weak midgets in a league of giant plodders.

I hope we never attempt to play the hoofball which St J, Dundee U and Hertz play week in week out but we are becoming so predictable in our team selection and tactics that other teams must now look forward to playing us.

We are suffering for the lack of activity in the January tansfer window when we needed to sign a right back and a midfielder with physical presence.

Big learning points for Yogi.

Team selection and tactics wouldnt matter as we just dont have the players to complete against big physical sides. Yogi needs to take some of the blame here in regards to signings, too many forwards and goal keepers IMO. He should have been trying to get people in on loan that were a big bigger than our current squad. Yogis words near the start of the season after a defeat. . . we will never be bullied again, well it looked like we were on Saturday.

Another thing to note about the game on Saturday, a couple of times Hogg left wotherspoon to mark Deuchar, whats that all about! Dont know if Hogg knew that deuchar had the measure of him and tried to get wotherspoon to have a go. When playing a team with a lot of height you need to match up as best you can in regard to height!

HFC 0-7
01-03-2010, 07:34 PM
I don't think it is coincidence that since the pitches have started to break up the results have dried up. We could resort to throwing big bamba into midfield and trying to battle with other teams but Yogi is trying to stick to a philosophy that will help in the long run. Continuing to play expansive attractive football is really the only way we can bring scottish football out of the mire, pardon the pun, that we are in. The old style of scottish football has its place and in fairness it is successful at the level we play at because the skill level is not high enough. The weather and pitches do not stop the Russians playing great football, but that is a grass roots philosophy that they have garnered over the years. They simply refuse to punt it up the park.

Yes it is a results driven business but, is it not important at a national level to change that. Ok introduce the winter break, or summer football, that will avoid bad pitches and maybe entice teams like St johnstone to play the ball on the deck. On saturday i had my head in my hands not because of our play but because of theirs. It was depressing to say the least.

Currently we dont have a big ball playing midfielder, ok Bamba aint that bad with it at his feet, but maybe not want yogi wants at the moment. I honestly think come the split as pitches improve you will see an improved hibs. It didnt help on sat that nish had a horrible game, because we had plenty chances to win.

Also i think that Stevenson was very good, time and time again he picked out decent passes, trying to push play forward, and despite getting given a couple of hospital passes he managed to wriggle his way out of bad situations. On a decent pitch against a team that maybe wants to play football i can see good things, yes you can argue that its a horses for courses thing, but overall i was impressed.

So, yes a big ball playing player in the summer would be nice, but in the mean time lets get back into third, and continue to play good football.

Thats a myth, I havent seen us trying to play attractive football for a few games now. We are pumping the ball forward to Stokes to try and win and the ball keeps coming back. There is no attractive football being attempted, in fact, if we were trying it I think we would do quite well. Dont know if you seen it but the best hibs looked against St Johnstone was when Wotherspoon was trying to take the ball a run in the second half and things actually opened up.

Stine
01-03-2010, 10:29 PM
I fully agree that recently that attractive football has been non-exsistant, but that is the nature of the games we have been playing, yogi is trying to adapt to the conditions but the problem with that is we don't have the players to play that way. Playing long was sensible because St Johnstone had pushed their back line up the park and we had no space to play out of defence, also when you keep two men up the park firing the ball up to them makes sense, to speed up the play and try to put pressure on saints. Yes i saw Wotherspoon's run, typical of his quality, but you can't deny that we have been playing good football this season, and if the pitches had not deteriorated so much we would still be playing it. In fairness we played very well at ibrox in the first half. Knocked the ball around very well on a good pitch, since then we have played st johnstone twice and motherwell away. Prior to these games we won four in a row. So i don't think its a myth. I think it is down to poor playing conditions underfoot. And a very bad day at the office.

J-C
01-03-2010, 11:10 PM
Perfect example here is Arsenal, play fantastic football but get beaten when a bigger stronger tougher side get stuck into them, when they were the invincibles they had quality creative players but also guy's who could stick the boot in when necessary.

look at Man U and Chealsea, they have the combination of skill, strength and mental strength.

Stine
01-03-2010, 11:19 PM
Jc50 you have summed it up perfectly, vieira, petit, gilberto silva. Big, imposing players, but equally good on the ball, if you accept yogi's constant assurance that we are a work in progress then maybe these players will come.

Although being a gunners fan aswell i was proud of the lads against stoke, gave as good as they got, although not quite literally.

J-C
01-03-2010, 11:33 PM
Jc50 you have summed it up perfectly, vieira, petit, gilberto silva. Big, imposing players, but equally good on the ball, if you accept yogi's constant assurance that we are a work in progress then maybe these players will come.

Although being a gunners fan aswell i was proud of the lads against stoke, gave as good as they got, although not quite literally.


Stoke a bit like St Johnstone, not a lot of quality apart from a couple of players, play with 6-7 big strong guys and give opposition little time on the ball, also play hoofball to the big guys up front.

Stine
01-03-2010, 11:45 PM
Stoke a bit like St Johnstone, not a lot of quality apart from a couple of players, play with 6-7 big strong guys and give opposition little time on the ball, also play hoofball to the big guys up front.

Exactly, i guess there is hope for us after all.