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Sudds_1
25-02-2010, 09:14 AM
According to today's Metro, Yogi has dropped Smith because Sol needs someone to gee him up.....not because he's to blame for shipping so many goals over the last few games. And apparently Stack gives Bamba that - and Smithy doesn't.

Odd to say the least........? Why not drop the man whose form is poor, rather than a goalie who has looked the part since taking over the gloves. Why not drop the man whose absence was hardly noticed by a strong back 4 who played exceptionally well while he was away........a back 4 that has looked decidedly dodgy since his return.

I just don't get the logic on this one..............:confused:

JoeT
25-02-2010, 09:23 AM
I think the difference between Sol and Hanlon is bigger than the difference in ability between the goalies

whereswallace?
25-02-2010, 09:23 AM
I think Smith can feel really hard done by,being dropped because of another players form.Especially when he has been brilliant since coming in.I guess the thinking behind it may be that a Sol Bamba in top form brings more to the team.If it was me in charge though,it would be Bamba being dropped to show him he needs to do more than just turn up.

blackpoolhibs
25-02-2010, 09:24 AM
Its called TEAM management, its all about getting the best from the team. Bamba on form is the best centre half in this league, and Stack is every bit as good as Smith. Its a no brainer.

bingo70
25-02-2010, 09:25 AM
He answers your question in the same story you read in the metro, he wanted to keep a more physical presence in the team

Sudds_1
25-02-2010, 09:31 AM
Its called TEAM management, its all about getting the best from the team. Bamba on form is the best centre half in this league, and Stack is every bit as good as Smith. Its a no brainer.


Hmm..so when he's not in form your team management strategy involves dropping someone who IS in form, to shore up the one who isn't?

Yogi says he needs a physical presence, hence the decision to make changes around a player who has lost form and confidence. What account does that take of the impact of the other players around him? That's been there for all to see since Sol returned...

Nah.......the psychology on this one defeats me........ :agree:

HFC 0-7
25-02-2010, 09:37 AM
Hmm..so when he's not in form your team management strategy involves dropping someone who IS in form, to shore up the one who isn't?

Yogi says he needs a physical presence, hence the decision to make changes around a player who has lost form and confidence. What account does that take of the impact of the other players around him? That's been there for all to see since Sol returned...

Nah.......the psychology on this one defeats me........ :agree:

If you want the TEAM to perform the best then sometimes it means taking out a player that is performing. There isnt much if anything between Smith and Stack, but when Stack plays, Bamba is solid and thus the defence and creates a solid footing for the team. When Smith plays Bamba looks shaky and the defence and team suffer. I am not saying that this wont be a sore one for smith, but it happens and if it makes the team play better then I am all for it.

GreenPJ
25-02-2010, 09:41 AM
As an aside, I am at a loss as to why Hibs (or any team) need 3 perceived first team goalkeepers in the squad (am already assuming Maka is away) as well as a young lad who is going to get no opportunity now other than being on loan for the next two years.

This is a waste of at least one wage, a man management disaster waiting to happen and can't be ideal for creating a settled defensive line.

As much as I rate Yogi highly I still don't see the logic in our current keeper position.

blackpoolhibs
25-02-2010, 09:43 AM
Hmm..so when he's not in form your team management strategy involves dropping someone who IS in form, to shore up the one who isn't?

Yogi says he needs a physical presence, hence the decision to make changes around a player who has lost form and confidence. What account does that take of the impact of the other players around him? That's been there for all to see since Sol returned...

Nah.......the psychology on this one defeats me........ :agree:

All in your opinion, as far as I'm concerned, Bamba may not have been as good as he was before the ANC, but he's been far from as bad as people are making out. One bad game against St Johnstone is not poor form. In fact Ian Murray has been in worse form, and been culpable for a couple of soft goals we have conceded, yet nobody's talking about him?:confused:

Sudds_1
25-02-2010, 10:01 AM
All in your opinion, as far as I'm concerned, Bamba may not have been as good as he was before the ANC, but he's been far from as bad as people are making out. One bad game against St Johnstone is not poor form. In fact Ian Murray has been in worse form, and been culpable for a couple of soft goals we have conceded, yet nobody's talking about him?:confused:

Yep BH, all in my opinion...........thats what Boards are for, aren't they?

It's my opinion also that every game Bamba has played in since his return has been bad - not just St Johnstone. And that has had a knock on effect throughout the back line.

.....and we're not taking about Murray because, simply, he wasn't subject of the article that prompted my post. We can if you want. :wink:

Andy74
25-02-2010, 10:04 AM
As an aside, I am at a loss as to why Hibs (or any team) need 3 perceived first team goalkeepers in the squad (am already assuming Maka is away) as well as a young lad who is going to get no opportunity now other than being on loan for the next two years.

This is a waste of at least one wage, a man management disaster waiting to happen and can't be ideal for creating a settled defensive line.

As much as I rate Yogi highly I still don't see the logic in our current keeper position.

Think back to the Rangers game at Easter Road and you won't be at a loss anymore.

Two injured goalkpeers and a young lad who wasn't ready. Not ideal. In the weeks that followed we played Smith as both were still injured with Flynn the bench. What would we have done if we didn't have the extra first team keeper?

Now we have three and I suppose four just now if you count Maka.

Danderhall Hibs
25-02-2010, 10:08 AM
As well as that there were rumours flying around that Stack’s injury was bad enough that he’d have to retire. If the club thought he was that bad as well then they’re likely to have rushed to get another keeper in before the window closed.

blackpoolhibs
25-02-2010, 10:15 AM
Yep BH, all in my opinion...........thats what Boards are for, aren't they?

It's my opinion also that every game Bamba has played in since his return has been bad - not just St Johnstone. And that has had a knock on effect throughout the back line.

.....and we're not taking about Murray because, simply, he wasn't subject of the article that prompted my post. We can if you want. :wink:

Yip thats what boards are for. It wont surprise you to know i disagree, i think Bamba's been fine, there' not been much wrong with his form. As i said, Murrays form has been patchy, perhaps he's been responsible for the knock on effect throughout the back line? Or having no midfield, maybe thats been the reason? There was nothing much wrong with the defence on saturday, and Bamba played well. Does that mean he should keep his place, or do we go back further to asses his form?

Septimus
25-02-2010, 10:21 AM
And he has displaced Hogg to accommodate Bamba. Whatever JH's philosophy about big hod carriers may be it certainly has not worked.

Sudds_1
25-02-2010, 10:25 AM
Yip thats what boards are for. It wont surprise you to know i disagree, i think Bamba's been fine, there' not been much wrong with his form. As i said, Murrays form has been patchy, perhaps he's been responsible for the knock on effect throughout the back line? Or having no midfield, maybe thats been the reason? There was nothing much wrong with the defence on saturday, and Bamba played well. Does that mean he should keep his place, or do we go back further to asses his form?

Murray's form (or dip ) co-incides with Bambas return (IMHO of course). He's aware of the centre pairing frailities and it's affecting his game. That could be said of some others who will be wary of the weaknesses behind them. Sol didn't look all that commanding to me at Murderwell..... even with Stack's arm around his wee shoulders....

...We might have to agree to disagree on this one BH.....No doubt time will tell whether Yogi is right. And ultimately, thats all that counts. :agree:

blackpoolhibs
25-02-2010, 10:27 AM
Murray's form (or dip ) co-incides with Bambas return (IMHO of course). He's aware of the centre pairing frailities and it's affecting his game. That could be said of some others who will be wary of the weaknesses behind them. Sol didn't look all that commanding to me at Murderwell..... even with Stack's arm around his wee shoulders....

...We might have to agree to disagree on this one BH.....No doubt time will tell whether Yogi is right. And ultimately, thats all that counts. :agree:

:agree::greengrin

--------
25-02-2010, 10:30 AM
Hmm..so when he's not in form your team management strategy involves dropping someone who IS in form, to shore up the one who isn't?

Yogi says he needs a physical presence, hence the decision to make changes around a player who has lost form and confidence. What account does that take of the impact of the other players around him? That's been there for all to see since Sol returned...

Nah.......the psychology on this one defeats me........ :agree:


From where I'm sitting, Smith has shipped 11 goals in the last 4 games, and while I DO NOT wish to start yet another goalkeeper witch-hunt on this forum, NOR am I suggesting that Smith has been at fault for all of the goals, it does seem to me that 11 in 4 against us MAY have something to do with the goalkeeper who played in all four of those games - even just a wee bit?

I would suggest that if Makalambay had been in goal over the last fortnight there would be three or four mega-threads on here about him and his shortcomings and no one would be suggesting that some of it might have been the fault of his defenders.

Right now our defence is broke.

Time to do something to shake things up and MEND IT.

ScottB
25-02-2010, 10:32 AM
The teams been a mess since Bamba returned (again displacing an in form player, Hanlon for his benefit) since he came back he's made a series of blunders, penalties and an own goal. So now instead of dropping him we are further changing the team to try and get him into form.

Sorry, but no player should have a blank cheque to be mince, which seems to be the message here. If Bamba is in fact EPL level as we keep getting told surely he shouldn't need a keeper shouting at him / putting their arm round him to get him through a game?

blackpoolhibs
25-02-2010, 10:44 AM
The teams been a mess since Bamba returned (again displacing an in form player, Hanlon for his benefit) since he came back he's made a series of blunders, penalties and an own goal. So now instead of dropping him we are further changing the team to try and get him into form.

Sorry, but no player should have a blank cheque to be mince, which seems to be the message here. If Bamba is in fact EPL level as we keep getting told surely he shouldn't need a keeper shouting at him / putting their arm round him to get him through a game?

One bad performance against St Johnstone does not constitute the team being a mess.:confused: How many of the goals were down to the rest of the defence against the saints? The defence that included Hanlon? The penalty against rangers was not a penalty, the ref got it wrong, and miller cheated. How can that be Bamba's fault? One own goal in a game we won, whoopi dee.:bitchy:

The managers obviously wrong again for wanting a keeper who's just as good as Smith, but who is a better organiser in the team.:confused:

Sudds_1
25-02-2010, 10:46 AM
From where I'm sitting, Smith has shipped 11 goals in the last 4 games, and while I DO NOT wish to start yet another goalkeeper witch-hunt on this forum, NOR am I suggesting that Smith has been at fault for all of the goals, it does seem to me that 11 in 4 against us MAY have something to do with the goalkeeper who played in all four of those games - even just a wee bit?

I would suggest that if Makalambay had been in goal over the last fortnight there would be three or four mega-threads on here about him and his shortcomings and no one would be suggesting that some of it might have been the fault of his defenders.

Right now our defence is broke.

Time to do something to shake things up and MEND IT.

couldn't agree more........That's why I'll be watching the progress of Yogi's latest strategy with keen interest. :agree:

Sudds_1
25-02-2010, 10:47 AM
The teams been a mess since Bamba returned (again displacing an in form player, Hanlon for his benefit) since he came back he's made a series of blunders, penalties and an own goal. So now instead of dropping him we are further changing the team to try and get him into form.

Sorry, but no player should have a blank cheque to be mince, which seems to be the message here. If Bamba is in fact EPL level as we keep getting told surely he shouldn't need a keeper shouting at him / putting their arm round him to get him through a game?

If I was cynical........I'd be thinking the agenda is to keep him in the shop window to make sure we get a return on our investment.

But I'm not ..........:wink:

Gus Fring
25-02-2010, 10:57 AM
Does that mean when we sell bamba we'll need to throw stack into the deal as well? Or maybe put a wee note on the sale?

Please note: This players form can suffer from inconsistency if not backed up by a keeper giving him assistance. We are unable to accept returns or offer refunds on this basis?

Then Rod can get them to sign the receipt like you do in argos?

--------
25-02-2010, 11:01 AM
couldn't agree more........That's why I'll be watching the progress of Yogi's latest strategy with keen interest. :agree:

As always, blackpoolhibs has restored a wee bit sanity to the discussion.

Correction to my last post: we lost two daft goals to the Dons and then pulled ourselves together and could (should?) have won the game in the second half.

We played well in the first half at Ibrox - had the better of the play even according to the Rangers supporters I've spoken to.

Yogi changed things around for McDairmid Park, and as he himself said, got it wrong. We were awful that night, but one bad performance doesn't make a disastrous season.

At Fir Park we had a horrendous pitch to deal with (not helpful to a team of our type) but the defence basically steadied up and played reasonably well.

So on mature reflection, I'd say we're more in need of fine tuning than major surgery. Yogi maybe needs to give some hard thought to his team selection for Saturday's game (we DON'T want to go four defeats in a row) and this may be indeed what he's doing - deciding that the teamwork between Bamba and Stack is superior to that between Bamba and Smith (that OG a case in point?) and deciding to put Stack back into goals against the Saints.

However, my other point remains valid - SOME at least of those 11 goals would have been worked over and worked over by some of us until it was clear that Maka was alone to blame and should be binned, punted, hanged, drawn and quartered, whatever, forthwith.

It's actually a bit of a relief it hasn't happened - YET.

Holmesdale Hibs
25-02-2010, 11:02 AM
I think the difference between Sol and Hanlon is bigger than the difference in ability between the goalies

Agree with this although Smith can feel hard done by. It must be difficult to join a new club and start shouting at someone like Bamba in your first few games. Its a welcome change to have good keepers in reserve.

Expecting Rain
25-02-2010, 11:14 AM
It is an absolute myth that we have defended well all season, with or without Bamba, we`ve gotten away with murder on occasions, put it down to luck or incredibly poor finishing by the opposition, the balance of the team hasn`t been right throughout the campaign, what has elevated us to 3rd position is the attacking threat carried by a lot of good individuals, we`ve all accepted this because we would prefer to watch an attacking team rather than the one created by Laszlo accross the town, hopefully that balance will improve by an influx of new signings to compliment the decent players that we have.

blackpoolhibs
25-02-2010, 11:18 AM
As always, blackpoolhibs has restored a wee bit sanity to the discussion.

Correction to my last post: we lost two daft goals to the Dons and then pulled ourselves together and could (should?) have won the game in the second half.
A goal Murray was at fault for, god forbid it had been Bamba
We played well in the first half at Ibrox - had the better of the play even according to the Rangers supporters I've spoken to.
yip
Yogi changed things around for McDairmid Park, and as he himself said, got it wrong. We were awful that night, but one bad performance doesn't make a disastrous season.
yip
At Fir Park we had a horrendous pitch to deal with (not helpful to a team of our type) but the defence basically steadied up and played reasonably well.
Yip
So on mature reflection, I'd say we're more in need of fine tuning than major surgery. Yogi maybe needs to give some hard thought to his team selection for Saturday's game (we DON'T want to go four defeats in a row) and this may be indeed what he's doing - deciding that the teamwork between Bamba and Stack is superior to that between Bamba and Smith (that OG a case in point?) and deciding to put Stack back into goals against the Saints.
Yes, a sensible decision
However, my other point remains valid - SOME at least of those 11 goals would have been worked over and worked over by some of us until it was clear that Maka was alone to blame and should be binned, punted, hanged, drawn and quartered, whatever, forthwith.

It's actually a bit of a relief it hasn't happened - YET.
When you stand back and analyse things as you have, its clear we have had a dip in form, not just one player, but the team as a whole, but nowhere near as bad as some are making out. And to blame the teams dip on one player is just daft, especially when imho he's been no worse, and a lot better than some.:confused:

Andy74
25-02-2010, 11:22 AM
As always, blackpoolhibs has restored a wee bit sanity to the discussion.

Correction to my last post: we lost two daft goals to the Dons and then pulled ourselves together and could (should?) have won the game in the second half.

We played well in the first half at Ibrox - had the better of the play even according to the Rangers supporters I've spoken to.

Yogi changed things around for McDairmid Park, and as he himself said, got it wrong. We were awful that night, but one bad performance doesn't make a disastrous season.

At Fir Park we had a horrendous pitch to deal with (not helpful to a team of our type) but the defence basically steadied up and played reasonably well.

So on mature reflection, I'd say we're more in need of fine tuning than major surgery. Yogi maybe needs to give some hard thought to his team selection for Saturday's game (we DON'T want to go four defeats in a row) and this may be indeed what he's doing - deciding that the teamwork between Bamba and Stack is superior to that between Bamba and Smith (that OG a case in point?) and deciding to put Stack back into goals against the Saints.

However, my other point remains valid - SOME at least of those 11 goals would have been worked over and worked over by some of us until it was clear that Maka was alone to blame and should be binned, punted, hanged, drawn and quartered, whatever, forthwith.

It's actually a bit of a relief it hasn't happened - YET.

I strongly disagree with the last bit.

The reason the blame hasn't been attached to the keeper is that none of them were his fault!

Quite simple really.

Stack and Smith have both been left in peace by Hibs fans for this simple reason, they aren't making mistakes and if they are they are kept to a minimum and not costing us goals and games.

Maka is a guy who most people like as a person so there's no reason for him to get hard time for any other reason than he has made mistakes often and they have been costly, and that he shows no signs of changing that part of his game.

blackpoolhibs
25-02-2010, 11:25 AM
It is an absolute myth that we have defended well all season, with or without Bamba, we`ve gotten away with murder on occasions, put it down to luck or incredibly poor finishing by the opposition, the balance of the team hasn`t been right throughout the campaign, what has elevated us to 3rd position is the attacking threat carried by a lot of good individuals, we`ve all accepted this because we would prefer to watch an attacking team rather than the one created by Laszlo accross the town, hopefully that balance will improve by an influx of new signings to compliment the decent players that we have.

I disagree, up to last week, we had lost 20 goals. Why is it we are lucky, but when we miss at the other end its bad play, not being unlucky?
I agree with your last bit, quality additions will help the team progress even further again, next season.

Baldy Foghorn
25-02-2010, 11:27 AM
I strongly disagree with the last bit.

The reason the blame hasn't been attached to the keeper is that none of them were his fault!

Quite simple really.

Stack and Smith have both been left in peace by Hibs fans for this simple reason, they aren't making mistakes and if they are they are kept to a minimum and not costing us goals and games.

Maka is a guy who most people like as a person so there's no reason for him to get hard time for any other reason than he has made mistakes often and they have been costly, and that he shows no signs of changing that part of his game.

Exactly, I really don't understand why Smith has been dropped.... The Stack/Bamba reasoning by Yogi baffles me

Expecting Rain
25-02-2010, 11:27 AM
I disagree, up to last week, we had lost 20 goals. Why is it we are lucky, but when we miss at the other end its bad play, not being unlucky?
I agree with your last bit, quality additions will help the team progress even further again, next season.

You are entitled to agree BH but i`m sticking to the first part!:greengrin

blackpoolhibs
25-02-2010, 11:32 AM
Exactly, I really don't understand why Smith has been dropped.... The Stack/Bamba reasoning by Yogi baffles me

Its not really difficult to understand, Yogi has explained why. It would baffle me, if Yogi did not do what he thought was best for the team, he's explained why he did it, and is quite clear why.:confused:

Baldy Foghorn
25-02-2010, 11:34 AM
Its not really difficult to understand, Yogi has explained why. It would baffle me, if Yogi did not do what he thought was best for the team, he's explained why he did it, and is quite clear why.:confused:

Having seen all the matches I would have said Bamba looked more uncomfortable than Smith..... Does Bamba really need Stack to help him through games?? I don't think so........

blackpoolhibs
25-02-2010, 11:38 AM
Having seen all the matches I would have said Bamba looked more uncomfortable than Smith..... Does Bamba really need Stack to help him through games?? I don't think so........

I have seen all the matches too, and the combination of Stack and Bamba was better than Smith and Bamba, would you not agree?

--------
25-02-2010, 11:54 AM
I strongly disagree with the last bit.

The reason the blame hasn't been attached to the keeper is that none of them were his fault!

Quite simple really.

Stack and Smith have both been left in peace by Hibs fans for this simple reason, they aren't making mistakes and if they are they are kept to a minimum and not costing us goals and games.

Maka is a guy who most people like as a person so there's no reason for him to get hard time for any other reason than he has made mistakes often and they have been costly, and that he shows no signs of changing that part of his game.


Oh, I think I could have made a case if I'd wanted to, Andy - even if all I wanted was to start another anti-goalie thread. Even if I didn't really believe what i was posting. Even if it was just a matter of me being awkward and cantankerous and stirring trouble.

Sol's OG, for example - was that Sol's fault for not taking account of where Smith was, or did Smith fail to let Sol know that it was the goalie's ball and that he (Smith) was moving to collect it? Everyone seems to have assumed the first, but if Sol got no clear call from Smith. I still can't quite see why Smith moved out of the centre of the goal, myself. All he had to do was stand still and deal with the pass-back from his centre-half....See what I mean? :wink:

But I'm regretting even raising the subject now - I sense HibsSpaininthebutt lurking in the undergrowth itching to start another 'Bring Back Maka' thread.

When a team loses three in a row, the time has come for pro-active management techniques top be applied, which in football means that someone gets it in the neck. Often someone essentially undeserving. Sad but true.

Baldy Foghorn
25-02-2010, 12:01 PM
I have seen all the matches too, and the combination of Stack and Bamba was better than Smith and Bamba, would you not agree?

no

blackpoolhibs
25-02-2010, 12:06 PM
no

So there was not a better understanding on Saturday, between Stack and Bamba, than there was on Wednesday between Smith and Bamba?

Ed De Gramo
25-02-2010, 12:08 PM
I'd rather see Bamba in DM or on the bench...he's been hopeless at centre half lately!

MussyHibby
25-02-2010, 12:12 PM
Feel for Smith. For me he hasn't done a lot wrong. But you've got to trust the manager.

As for Bamba, people just believe what they want to believe, and what they've seen they've exagerated, i.e the penalty, the own goal, the stepover................but it's nowhere near as bad as people say.

For me, even with Bamba apparently not at his best, he MUST still be in the team every week. :agree:

blackpoolhibs
25-02-2010, 12:13 PM
Feel for Smith. For me he hasn't done a lot wrong. But you've got to trust the manager.

As for Bamba, people just believe what they want to believe, and what they've seen they've exagerated, i.e the penalty, the own goal, the stepover................but it's nowhere near as bad as people say.

For me, even with Bamba apparently not at his best, he MUST still be in the team every week. :agree:

Exactly. :top marks

MussyHibby
25-02-2010, 12:13 PM
I'd rather see Bamba in DM or on the bench...he's been hopeless at centre half lately!

Case in point - exageration!

blackpoolhibs
25-02-2010, 12:24 PM
Case in point - exageration!

:agree: He's only one of many panic merchants.

Sudds_1
25-02-2010, 12:52 PM
Sol's OG, for example - was that Sol's fault for not taking account of where Smith was, or did Smith fail to let Sol know that it was the goalie's ball and that he (Smith) was moving to collect it? Everyone seems to have assumed the first, but if Sol got no clear call from Smith. I still can't quite see why Smith moved out of the centre of the goal, myself. All he had to do was stand still and deal with the pass-back from his centre-half....See what I mean? :wink:

Can answer that one easily enough.....was right behind the goal (as always) and Smith's shout could be clearly heard. Indeed many of us there joked that Big Sol was clearly having trouble understanding English, having been away on ANC duty for so long.

So....he ignored the shout, and OG ensued. Simples. :wink:

Baldy Foghorn
25-02-2010, 12:59 PM
So there was not a better understanding on Saturday, between Stack and Bamba, than there was on Wednesday between Smith and Bamba?

From where we were at game, you could not hear if Stack and Bamba were communicating, and chances for both teams were at a premium. Hard to gauge on that match

Leithenhibby
25-02-2010, 01:17 PM
According to today's Metro, Yogi has dropped Smith because Sol needs someone to gee him up.....not because he's to blame for shipping so many goals over the last few games. And apparently Stack gives Bamba that - and Smithy doesn't.

Odd to say the least........? Why not drop the man whose form is poor, rather than a goalie who has looked the part since taking over the gloves. Why not drop the man whose absence was hardly noticed by a strong back 4 who played exceptionally well while he was away........a back 4 that has looked decidedly dodgy since his return.

I just don't get the logic on this one..............:confused:



:top marks My very thoughts also...don't make sense to me..:confused:

Sir David Gray
25-02-2010, 01:32 PM
I find it hard to believe that any other goalkeeper in Scotland could "gee up" a team mate any more than Graeme Smith.

Whilst I don't think Stack comes across as being shy, Smith's one of the most vocal and communicative goalkeepers that I've ever come across, both at Motherwell in the past and also in the short time that he's been at Hibs.

I personally think that he can count himself quite hard done by to find himself currently out of the team.

In saying that though, it must be the manager's decision and if he thinks that Stack is better for the team than Smith then that'll do for me.

blackpoolhibs
25-02-2010, 01:50 PM
From where we were at game, you could not hear if Stack and Bamba were communicating, and chances for both teams were at a premium. Hard to gauge on that match

The defence defended better, there looked to be a better understanding than there was on wednesday, or maybe i imagined it.

--------
25-02-2010, 02:18 PM
Can answer that one easily enough.....was right behind the goal (as always) and Smith's shout could be clearly heard. Indeed many of us there joked that Big Sol was clearly having trouble understanding English, having been away on ANC duty for so long.

So....he ignored the shout, and OG ensued. Simples. :wink:

Not simples.

Was he clear he was moving, or did he just shout and move before he was sure...

Aw, shucks. I'm not after Smith. I'm just saying we can argue about who's right or wrong forever if we're all thrawn enough.

Is Bamba going to end up our next scapegoat?

Bottom line - when the team hasn't won in 4, when they're shipping goals for whatever reason, that's the time the manager has to give things a tweak here and there, and that means that someone's going to be dropped. That's professional sport - not always completely fair, but still...

Bottom bottom line - we MUST win on Saturday or we WILL be risking a complete collapse.

End of. :devil:

Phil MaGlass
25-02-2010, 02:44 PM
If I were Smith I would bevery f,n annoyed,drop Bamba like he dropped hOGG,IT BEGGARS BELIEF THAT A GOALIE WHO IS CONSISTANT IS DROPPED FOR A PLAYER WHO ISNT PRODUCING THE GOODS!!!!

Sudds_1
25-02-2010, 02:46 PM
Not simples.

Was he clear he was moving, or did he just shout and move before he was sure...

Aw, shucks. I'm not after Smith. I'm just saying we can argue about who's right or wrong forever if we're all thrawn enough.

Is Bamba going to end up our next scapegoat?

Bottom line - when the team hasn't won in 4, when they're shipping goals for whatever reason, that's the time the manager has to give things a tweak here and there, and that means that someone's going to be dropped. That's professional sport - not always completely fair, but still...

Bottom bottom line - we MUST win on Saturday or we WILL be risking a complete collapse.

End of. :devil:

Lets get one thing clear here Doddie.....I am not scapegoating Sol here. My post simply asked a (hopefully) reasonable question regarding the rationale behind a decision to retain a player who is obviously performing below par and what he (Yogi) offered in support of the decision to retain him at the expense of another.

As regards the "shout" , loud and clear at the point he moved off his line. If you watch carefully you can actually see the other Hibs defenders look his way and begin to move up the park....all except Sol who was getting ready to hoof it clear...! :devil:

I agree all you say in your final sentences.......what we're debating here I hope is how Yogi has explained the changes he's made and whether we agree his rationale...we might disagree among each other on that point but hey.....thats healthy debate!

What we ALL agree on is that a win Saturday is a must! :agree:

Phil MaGlass
25-02-2010, 02:48 PM
aLTHOUGH i WOULD LIKE TO ADD THAT i HAVE NAE PROBS WITH STACK,AAAARGH CAPS AGAIN

MussyHibby
25-02-2010, 03:08 PM
If I were Smith I would bevery f,n annoyed,drop Bamba like he dropped hOGG,IT BEGGARS BELIEF THAT A GOALIE WHO IS CONSISTANT IS DROPPED FOR A PLAYER WHO ISNT PRODUCING THE GOODS!!!!

From that I presume Bamba? I disagree.

You in Holland? Assume you are and your opinions are made up of what you hear rather than what you see? :confused:

TRC
25-02-2010, 03:45 PM
Get Bamba to heck, done nothing since he came back, heads been in the clouds dreaming of that move to the epl. On current form he'll be lucky to be back at Dunfi come the end of the season. But again in yogi we must trust :greengrin

Baldy Foghorn
25-02-2010, 03:49 PM
The defence defended better, there looked to be a better understanding than there was on wednesday, or maybe i imagined it.

defender better, or Motherwell were poorer than St Johnstone?? Can't recall Motherwell creating a great deal on Saturday......

All depends on your interpretation of the game.....

BEEJ
25-02-2010, 04:19 PM
I agree all you say in your final sentences.......what we're debating here I hope is how Yogi has explained the changes he's made and whether we agree his rationale...we might disagree among each other on that point but hey.....thats healthy debate!

Whilst Yogi's open style of communication is a refreshing change from Mixu's before him, there are certain subjects where I think he should have been a bit less expansive and should have kept his own counsel.

This is one of them.

blackpoolhibs
25-02-2010, 04:24 PM
defender better, or Motherwell were poorer than St Johnstone?? Can't recall Motherwell creating a great deal on Saturday......

All depends on your interpretation of the game.....

Ah it was all down to the opposition, and had nothing to do with the managers tactics. Its strange how the manager, and certain players gets slaughtered when its wrong, But when it seems to work, its all down to the opposition being crap.

Baldy Foghorn
25-02-2010, 05:14 PM
Ah it was all down to the opposition, and had nothing to do with the managers tactics. Its strange how the manager, and certain players gets slaughtered when its wrong, But when it seems to work, its all down to the opposition being crap.

Are you kidding me?? 5 changes, 3 of which have hardly had any match time this season, in Gow, Cregg and Stevenson, on a ridiculously heavy pitch......

We had no width, we created next to hee haw, and lost to a p!sh poor side.....

Still if that warrants praise, and you are happy then fill your boots.......:confused:

Did you think the tactics worked on Saturday, prey tell !!!!!!

Speedway
25-02-2010, 05:18 PM
It's not really an issue of Smith or Bamba though is it?

The real question is, Maka or Stack?

blackpoolhibs
25-02-2010, 05:24 PM
Are you kidding me?? 5 changes, 3 of which have hardly had any match time this season, in Gow, Cregg and Stevenson, on a ridiculously heavy pitch......

We had no width, we created next to hee haw, and lost to a p!sh poor side.....

Still if that warrants praise, and you are happy then fill your boots.......:confused:

Did you think the tactics worked on Saturday, prey tell !!!!!!
The manager said the 3 players you mentioned were capable, to play at that level, although i'm sure you know better.

The pitch had a big factor in him playing Cregg and Stevenson, but again Yogi has no idea, and the sending off had no influence on them, or the result.

I'm wasting my time, you will never change your opinion on the manager. Anyone can do a quick search on you, and all it says is you are very very quiet when things are going well, but are quick to get on his case when any result goes the wrong way. Its sad really.

I wish i'd kept that rant you put on the evening news site, it puts your posts into perspective.

lapsedhibee
25-02-2010, 05:59 PM
Can answer that one easily enough.....was right behind the goal (as always) and Smith's shout could be clearly heard. Indeed many of us there joked that Big Sol was clearly having trouble understanding English, having been away on ANC duty for so long.

So....he ignored the shout, and OG ensued. Simples. :wink:

You are arguing here that Bamba and Smith have a pishy understanding, yes, which would be adding to the case for breaking up that particular partnership, yes? :dunno:

Baldy Foghorn
25-02-2010, 06:04 PM
The manager said the 3 players you mentioned were capable, to play at that level, although i'm sure you know better.

The pitch had a big factor in him playing Cregg and Stevenson, but again Yogi has no idea, and the sending off had no influence on them, or the result.

I'm wasting my time, you will never change your opinion on the manager. Anyone can do a quick search on you, and all it says is you are very very quiet when things are going well, but are quick to get on his case when any result goes the wrong way. Its sad really.

I wish i'd kept that rant you put on the evening news site, it puts your posts into perspective.

The only sad thing is you keeping a check on who posts what, and even worse digging up a qoute from me at the time the Manager was appointed.....

That is sad, makes you look silly, and makes you look like you have a vendetta....

I can't be bothered arguing with you anymore, you are tiresome and I really cant understand your logic....

Must be the sea air?:confused:

blackpoolhibs
25-02-2010, 06:10 PM
The only sad thing is you keeping a check on who posts what, and even worse digging up a qoute from me at the time the Manager was appointed.....

That is sad, makes you look silly, and makes you look like you have a vendetta....

I can't be bothered arguing with you anymore, you are tiresome and I really cant understand your logic....

Must be the sea air?:confused:

Pot and kettle eh, iyou may be arguing, i'm debating. As for keeping a check, dont make me laugh, i have a good memory, and because of that good memory, i have become tiresome with your logic on whats happening at easter road. As i said, you are very very quiet, when we are winning, but cant wait to get stuck in, when we are not. This makes you silly imho. Maybe you are not aware, but Edinburgh is on the coast.

Baldy Foghorn
25-02-2010, 06:13 PM
Pot and kettle eh, iyou may be arguing, i'm debating. As for keeping a check, dont make me laugh, i have a good memory, and because of that good memory, i have become tiresome with your logic on whats happening at easter road. As i said, you are very very quiet, when we are winning, but cant wait to get stuck in, when we are not. This makes you silly imho. Maybe you are not aware, but Edinburgh is on the coast.

Believe me I am not quiet when we win, but you have no idea what I think.......

Just because my opinions differ to you, you assume you are correct... I don't have 20,000 + posts so will let you crack on.......

blackpoolhibs
25-02-2010, 06:18 PM
Believe me I am not quiet when we win, but you have no idea what I think.......

Just because my opinions differ to you, you assume you are correct... I don't have 20,000 + posts so will let you crack on.......

I never quoted how vocal you are, or are not when we win. I quoted how anonymous you are when we do though, and how vocal you are when we don't? My post count has nothing to do with your posts, maybe the sea air is getting to you?

scoopyboy
25-02-2010, 06:22 PM
Are you kidding me?? 5 changes, 3 of which have hardly had any match time this season, in Gow, Cregg and Stevenson, on a ridiculously heavy pitch......

We had no width, we created next to hee haw, and lost to a p!sh poor side.....

Still if that warrants praise, and you are happy then fill your boots.......:confused:

Did you think the tactics worked on Saturday, prey tell !!!!!!

I think the tactics would have worked Brockie if he hadn't brought Zemmama on.

IMO after the sending off 0-0 was the best we were going to get.

I did however think to play both Stevenson and Cregg from the start was a huge gamble considering the lack of first team appearances recently.

GreenPJ
25-02-2010, 06:26 PM
As well as that there were rumours flying around that Stack’s injury was bad enough that he’d have to retire. If the club thought he was that bad as well then they’re likely to have rushed to get another keeper in before the window closed.

Brown was a pre-contract and could have been signed anytime outwith the window and based on the current pecking order is not getting a look in until at least next season anyway.

As for the argument of having two keepers injured at the same time and only a young boy available then tough, that is the same as every other club in the SPL and most leagues. Other than Man Utd who have 3 first team keepers, one of which wants away because he doesn't get a game I cannot think of any team with 3 keepers who would all perceive themself as first team and be of a similar decent standard. None of this takes into consideration that Maka's confidence and overall happiness around the place is bound to be shot and could have an impact on squad morale.

If there are lingering doubts about Stack's fitness/career then that partly justifies the additional signings but at the same time play the lads you have brought in who you obviously must believe can do a job then.

blackpoolhibs
25-02-2010, 06:29 PM
I think the tactics would have worked Brockie if he hadn't brought Zemmama on.
[B]I think you are right[B]
IMO after the sending off 0-0 was the best we were going to get.

I did however think to play both Stevenson and Cregg from the start was a huge gamble considering the lack of first team appearances recently.

Playing Stevenson and Cregg was working, and the sending off was a big factor in us losing. If Miller had stayed on, cregg and stevensons work load would have been less, and maybe Zemamma would have come on in very different circumstances. Hindsight is a wonderfull thing. After wednesdays bad display, the manager needed to make changes, he does that and is still wrong.

blackpoolhibs
25-02-2010, 06:34 PM
Brown was a pre-contract and could have been signed anytime outwith the window and based on the current pecking order is not getting a look in until at least next season anyway.

As for the argument of having two keepers injured at the same time and only a young boy available then tough, that is the same as every other club in the SPL and most leagues. Other than Man Utd who have 3 first team keepers, one of which wants away because he doesn't get a game I cannot think of any team with 3 keepers who would all perceive themself as first team and be of a similar decent standard. None of this takes into consideration that Maka's confidence and overall happiness around the place is bound to be shot and could have an impact on squad morale.

If there are lingering doubts about Stack's fitness/career then that partly justifies the additional signings but at the same time play the lads you have brought in who you obviously must believe can do a job then.

I think morale would be at an all time low, if Maka was still in goals, and fan confidence would be shot to pieces. The place will be a lot happier without him between the sticks, and eventually out the door.

Danderhall Hibs
25-02-2010, 06:38 PM
Brown was a pre-contract and could have been signed anytime outwith the window and based on the current pecking order is not getting a look in until at least next season anyway.

As for the argument of having two keepers injured at the same time and only a young boy available then tough, that is the same as every other club in the SPL and most leagues. Other than Man Utd who have 3 first team keepers, one of which wants away because he doesn't get a game I cannot think of any team with 3 keepers who would all perceive themself as first team and be of a similar decent standard. None of this takes into consideration that Maka's confidence and overall happiness around the place is bound to be shot and could have an impact on squad morale.

If there are lingering doubts about Stack's fitness/career then that partly justifies the additional signings but at the same time play the lads you have brought in who you obviously must believe can do a job then.

Hearts have got 3 keepers of equal standard haven't they? Balogh, Kello and the Scottish guy (McDonald?)

I know what you mean though it is a strange move by Brown to move from 3rd choice at Celtic to 3rd choice at Hibs.

blackpoolhibs
25-02-2010, 06:44 PM
Hearts have got 3 keepers of equal standard haven't they? Balogh, Kello and the Scottish guy (McDonald?)

I know what you mean though it is a strange move by Brown to move from 3rd choice at Celtic to 3rd choice at Hibs.

Perhaps he believes in his ability, and thinks he can push for that 1st team jersey at hibs. Its practically impossible for that to happen at celtic for him. Yogi has probably told him he will get his chance at some point, and when he does, it will be up to him to take it.:dunno:

Danderhall Hibs
25-02-2010, 06:47 PM
Perhaps he believes in his ability, and thinks he can push for that 1st team jersey at hibs. Its practically impossible for that to happen at celtic for him. Yogi has probably told him he will get his chance at some point, and when he does, it will be up to him to take it.:dunno:

He could've signed in the summer though - giving himself 6 months longer on higher wages and maybe more/different options in the summer.

blackpoolhibs
25-02-2010, 06:55 PM
He could've signed in the summer though - giving himself 6 months longer on higher wages and maybe more/different options in the summer.

I have no idea why he signed, i was just guessing, i did not know he was out of contract in the summer.

--------
25-02-2010, 08:56 PM
Lets get one thing clear here Doddie.....I am not scapegoating Sol here. My post simply asked a (hopefully) reasonable question regarding the rationale behind a decision to retain a player who is obviously performing below par and what he (Yogi) offered in support of the decision to retain him at the expense of another.

As regards the "shout" , loud and clear at the point he moved off his line. If you watch carefully you can actually see the other Hibs defenders look his way and begin to move up the park....all except Sol who was getting ready to hoof it clear...! :devil:

I agree all you say in your final sentences.......what we're debating here I hope is how Yogi has explained the changes he's made and whether we agree his rationale...we might disagree among each other on that point but hey.....thats healthy debate!

What we ALL agree on is that a win Saturday is a must! :agree:


Sorry - some of this is coming out all wrong.

Today I had four hours of trying to sort out this freakin laptop when I kept getting Trojan warnings whenever I tried to log on here. Ended up downloading ONE new Antivirus, which didn't help, then uninstalling it, then downloading another one which thank stink does, then junking Internet Explorer and installing Firefox which has better security and is faster and lets me , and whenever I forgot to kill the sound I had this BLOODY American female voice going on and on and on and ON about "a virus threat has just been blocked" and then I had to do the exact same again for my OTHER freakin laptop AND answer morons on the phone and dig the car out of a ditch and then someone parked his stinkin RANGE blankety-blank freakin ROVER right across the exit from the car park, PENNING ME IN ....

NOT a good day.

One to reduce the Doddie to a seething, cantankerous argumentative crabit curmudgeon. (DON'T say you can't see any difference!)

No, I can see your point about Smith - he can really feel hard done by.

On the other hand, it may be no bad thing to rest a goalie who has seen the ball flying past him as often as Smith has recently - as long as he's assured that there IS a straightforward way back for him that doesn't depend on Big Sol having his ears syringed once a fortnight.

EuanH78
26-02-2010, 04:11 AM
On the other hand, it may be no bad thing to rest a goalie who has seen the ball flying past him as often as Smith has recently - as long as he's assured that there IS a straightforward way back for him that doesn't depend on Big Sol having his ears syringed once a fortnight.

They do this in Ice Hockey quite a lot if a keeper ships a few goals, basically the coach considers him to have been broken, even if he's still played reasonably well. Could be yogi just wants Smith to train a bit more with the defence and Bamba in particular to get the communication working a bit better.

Makes sense to me anyway and dont have a problem with it or Stack coming in.

Expecting Rain
26-02-2010, 10:00 AM
After the thrashing at St Johnstone it seems like the Motherwell game has been analysed to death, the game was honking and the pitch wasn`t good enough for a take on with your mates,let`s move on and seek revenge against the mighty saints, 1-0 will do for me but the way we`re defending the odds on that will probably be 100-1.:flag:

hfc rd
26-02-2010, 02:45 PM
Think Smith will be gutted, as he did nothing at all wrong and was dropped just to suit Bamba. It should be Bamba that should be dropped, not Smith.