Abe

[Tinyclothes]

What are your thoughts on the Anyone But England T-Shirts http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/north_east/8533791.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/north_east/8533791.stm)

I reckon there will be plenty of Scots creaming themselves with delight at this but I find it a bit sad.

[Hibby D]

What are your thoughts on the Anyone But England T-Shirts http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/north_east/8533791.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/north_east/8533791.stm)

I reckon there will be plenty of Scots creaming themselves with delight at this :agree:.


Same here - and the irony is I bet some of those self same people watch the Premiereship week in and out "creaming themselves" at some of the wonderful football on display.

[Sylar]

Racist? Really?? Racist against whom? English people? Aren't they (for the most part) white caucasians too, or has there been a massive shift down south? I find it utterly laughable that it's being suggested that these T-shirts are potentially racist (perhaps xenophobic would be more appropriate) - It's a time-honoured tradition, that in football, you want to see your rivals lose, no?!

I do agree with your second point wholeheartedly though - it is a little sad!

It's annoying me to no end though, as I'll obviously be supporting the USA in the World Cup, but because I have a Scottish accent, everyone automatically assumes it's an ABE sentiment! :grr:

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think it's time we moved on.

[Leicester Fan]

As an Englishman and England supporter I can assure you I couldn't give a ****.:greengrin

[Woody1985]

Same here - and the irony is I bet some of those self same people watch the Premiereship week in and out "creaming themselves" at some of the wonderful football on display.

Not a great point given that most of the players are foreign.

FWIW, I don't want them to win anything for the constant drivel from the media about how amazing they are.

England have great footballers, I think what makes them so good in the premiership as the english and foreign styles complement each.

Wouldn't wear the t shirt though.

Have you never had anything that takes the piss out of Hearts? It's football rivalry (used loosely).

[JE89]

Not a great point given that most of the players are foreign.

FWIW, I don't want them to win anything for the constant drivel from the media about how amazing they are.

England have great footballers, I think what makes them so good in the premiership as the english and foreign styles complement each.

Wouldn't wear the t shirt though.

Have you never had anything that takes the piss out of Hearts? It's football rivalry (used loosely).

Aye, but nearly the whole England team plays in the league so she has a point.

I think the Premiership is the best league in the world though I wouldnt wear the T shirt but agree with it.

[Hibby D]

Not a great point given that most of the players are foreign.

FWIW, I don't want them to win anything for the constant drivel from the media about how amazing they are.

England have great footballers, I think what makes them so good in the premiership as the english and foreign styles complement each.

Wouldn't wear the t shirt though.

Have you never had anything that takes the piss out of Hearts? It's football rivalry (used loosely).

There's football rivalry and there's downright hatred - wanting England to get thumped in the WC is more than just rivalry to some and downright hatred to many. I condone rivalry but not hatred; not in the true sense of the word.

Let's face it, if England do win the WC, and the chances of them doing that are not slim, it would be a massive achievement; the likes of which this wee nation of ours can only dream about. And if it were ever to happen, we'd never let anyone forget it and we'd ram it down everyone's throats for a lifetime and more (take 0-7 & 6-2 as an analogy)

I simply think it's time us Scots bit the bullet when it comes to English football and give up on this incessant need to see them gubbed at every available opportunity just because they're from England(shire) :greengrin

[Hainan Hibs]

I could grow up and be mature.

But **** it.


ABE ABE ABE ABE ABE:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


:greengrin

[Hibby D]

I don't know if it's worth mentioning but I've been to several EPL, Championship and League One games over the last couple of years and I wonder if that's why my attitude towards all things "Engerlund" isn't so blinkered anymore.

Dunno, just a thought :dunno:

[marinello59]

Are these tee shirts really driven by football rivalry or is it more akin to jealousy? :devil:
We might see England as our biggest rivals but surely they would consider the likes of Argentina and Germany to be their true rivals. And they would be right.

:tin hat:

[Hainan Hibs]

Are these tee shirts really driven by football rivalry or is it more akin to jealousy? :devil:
We might see England as our biggest rivals but surely they would consider the likes of Argentina and Germany to be their true rivals. And they would be right.

:tin hat:

Just like Hearts really. They see us as their main rivals, however we are above that level and now Celtic and Rangers are our rivals.


:greengrin

[Calvin]

If you want a team to win, by definition you must not want another team to win, that's fine. Rivalry is okay, that's fine. Generally you don't want your rivals to win, so that should be fine as far as I can see!

[AgentDaleCooper]

i find the t-shirt kinda funny, but it's really just part of our inferiority complex that is probably the reason we bottle it every time we might actually get somewhere.

[Beefster]

My missus is English but I still don't want England to win at any sport. She manages to take it in the spirit it is felt (i.e. part sporting rivalry and part to tease her) and takes great delight in ripping me when Scotland lose. To be fair to her, she gets much more opportunities than I do.

Only a few idiots extend the sporting rivalry to any sort of xenophobic hatred of the English so this has been massively blown out of all proportion.

Is it any different to hoping that the Yams get beat when not playing Hibs?

[Calvin]

Is it any different to hoping that the Yams get beat when not playing Hibs?

Not as far as I can see. I'm half English myself but still detest their football team!

If it was causing genuine offence to English people, I would understand, but I think as long as the butt of the joke doesn't feel offence, it's okay.

[Tinyclothes]

I was working in a bar in Edinburgh during the World Cup 98 (Kings Bar), before the England V Argentina game I was on the way to work and written in paint on one of the pathways through the links was 'English Go Home' and when I got to work there was a sign outside the bar that read 'No English Allowed', is that just banter?

[Beefster]

I was working in a bar in Edinburgh during the World Cup 98 (Kings Bar), before the England V Argentina game I was on the way to work and written in paint on one of the pathways through the links was 'English Go Home' and when I got to work there was a sign outside the bar that read 'No English Allowed', is that just banter?

No, that's not banter but what's the connection to a t-shirt saying 'Anyone But England'?

I'm presuming you took your employer's policy on entry up with them?

[Tinyclothes]

No, that's not banter but what's the connection to a t-shirt saying 'Anyone But England'?

I'm presuming you took your employer's policy on entry up with them?

It's not completely linked but when folk are faced with this then they might not see the T-Shirts as being just banter. I don't mind the shirts at all but would be sympathetic if some folk get the hump with them.

[SlickShoes]

It's not completely linked but when folk are faced with this then they might not see the T-Shirts as being just banter. I don't mind the shirts at all but would be sympathetic if some folk get the hump with them.

So did you take it up with your employer and let them know you were disgusted by this?

[lyonhibs]

Some folk need to get out more.

Both the people wearing these t-shirts, and, to a far greater degree the humourless berks that have played the "racism" card for what is just a bit of footballing rivalry banter - juvenile and a bit petty, but hardly "racism" FFS!!

[Tinyclothes]

So did you take it up with your employer and let them know you were disgusted by this?

Aye I did, but I was 'OK' to work apparently. Think they didn't want any English in there because of the fervour around the game as the Scots were cacking it that England might actually win the thing. When the Argies won they were dancing on the tables and all sorts.

[Beefster]

It's not completely linked but when folk are faced with this then they might not see the T-Shirts as being just banter. I don't mind the shirts at all but would be sympathetic if some folk get the hump with them.

I can only really speak from my missus' viewpoint. She can tell the difference between 'banter' and xenophobia but any graffiti daubed on a pavement/wall is/would be like water off a duck's back to her. She's got bigger things to worry about than some random illiterate bawbag's musings on UK relations.

[SlickShoes]

Aye I did, but I was 'OK' to work apparently. Think they didn't want any English in there because of the fervour around the game as the Scots were cacking it that England might actually win the thing. When the Argies won they were dancing on the tables and all sorts.

Pretty sad like, however i never want England to win at anything, i will root for whoever is playing against them. I think nowadays its mostly to do with the blanket media coverage of how this is the year and they will win! It just puts you off and you end up rooting for someone else. Its also jealousy, i know i am never likely to see scotland play in a major tournament any time soon never mind win one. Seeing all the english fans over there having a great time makes you jealous, then when you see the hooligans wrecking the place you want them to lose again.

There are many reasons i think not only scottish people want england to lose but not all of them are xenophobic.

[ancient hibee]

Surely we should be wearing "Anyone but Spain"shirts.

[Woody1985]

Surely we should be wearing "Anyone but Spain"shirts.

Can you imagine a load of fat Scots walking around with ABS written on their t-shirt? :faf:

[Bad Martini]

I did have a pile of ICGAFSSGPO t-shirts made but "I couldnae give a **** since Scotland got put oot" didny trip of the tongue quite so well.

So, ABE it is. :greengrin

...and aye, it IS banter and the pc brigade can bugger off. It is NOT racist nor is even nasty. Its a piss take. I wonder how many folk on here wouldnt actively want other teams to be beating hearts, celtic and rangers when it won't disadvantage Hibs? Some folk even want Hearts beat when it WILL disadvantage Hibs? I ask thee, where is the difference :thumbsup:

So, I just wait with baited breath on the English going oot, on penalties, in the semi-final..............ideally, to the Gerries :cool2:

YEEHAA.

:saltireflag

[Hibbyradge]

How do we explain the fact that most Scots are happy when England lose at cricket?

There have also been threads on here with people professing their hopes for individual English sportsmen and women to lose.

Xenophobia is a huge part of it, imo.

[NOLA]

Are these tee shirts really driven by football rivalry or is it more akin to jealousy? :devil:
We might see England as our biggest rivals but surely they would consider the likes of Argentina and Germany to be their true rivals. And they would be right.

:tin hat:

exactly, the english don't give two hoots about scotland's football team, we're just insignificant and irrelevant to them nowadays

[LiverpoolHibs]

I've never really had the chance to be a discriminated against minority before, I'm milking this for all it's worth...

P.s. In all seriousness, you're a little bit mental if you think that 'anti-English racism' in Scotland is anything to be concerned with whatsoever.

[steakbake]

I think it's time we moved on.

:agree:

[bingo70]

exactly, the english don't give two hoots about scotland's football team, we're just insignificant and irrelevant to them nowadays

Thats the same with sporting rivalries throughout the world though, out of the 2 rivals one is considerably more succesfull than the other, what right have England got to call Germany there rivals when England aren't in the same league as them when it comes to success?

As for the t-shirt, what a load o pish, they are our rivals, don't care what anyone says and it's only a bit if a laugh (don't think they're that funny TBH, not for PC reasons though).

[bingo70]

I think it's time we moved on.


:agree:

Are we not allowed sporting rivalries now then?

If we are who should they be and what sort of behaviour would be acceptable for such a rivalry?

[steakbake]

Are we not allowed sporting rivalries now then?

If we are who should they be and what sort of behaviour would be acceptable for such a rivalry?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I'm away to buy an England jersey and watch them avidly for the next few months. They will always be the rivals to Scotland. But I think there is an irrational and slightly nasty side to the way people will actively support anyone but England.

If I'm watching the invariable penalty shoot-out and Terry balloons it over the bar into Row Z, I'll be chuckling. If they win it, I'll be suffering. But I'm not going to go out of my way to actively demonstrate that I don't like the England footie team by wearing a wee t-shirt or buying an Algeria top.

I just don't see the point in wearing it on my sleeve because really, it doesnt and shouldn't consume me if I'm being rational.

[Beefster]

How do we explain the fact that most Scots are happy when England lose at cricket?

There have also been threads on here with people professing their hopes for individual English sportsmen and women to lose.

Xenophobia is a huge part of it, imo.

If Hearts started up a netball team, I'd want them to fail.

I want any England national team to lose at pretty much any high-profile sport. Partly because of media coverage, partly because they're our bigger, more successful neighbours and partly down to my own personal circumstances. Xenophobia doesn't come into it.

When the desire is to see individual sportsmen fail just because they're English, you're probably right about it being xenophobic though.

[--------]

Same here - and the irony is I bet some of those self same people watch the Premiereship week in and out "creaming themselves" at some of the wonderful football on display.


I did have a pile of ICGAFSSGPO t-shirts made but "I couldnae give a **** since Scotland got put oot" didny trip of the tongue quite so well.

So, ABE it is. :greengrin

...and aye, it IS banter and the pc brigade can bugger off. It is NOT racist nor is even nasty. Its a piss take. I wonder how many folk on here wouldnt actively want other teams to be beating hearts, celtic and rangers when it won't disadvantage Hibs? Some folk even want Hearts beat when it WILL disadvantage Hibs? I ask thee, where is the difference :thumbsup:

So, I just wait with baited breath on the English going oot, on penalties, in the semi-final..............ideally, to the Gerries :cool2:

YEEHAA.

:saltireflag


Naw - Argentina, and the winning goal a blatant hand-ball - AGAIN. :devil:


(It's a pity we can't have BOTH.)

[Dinkydoo]

Footballing hatred :confused:

WTF?

Aye, it sure is an illusatration of some peoples xenophobic and almost racist view of the English; about as much as Lyonhibs' avatar being xenophobic and a symbol of hatred towards the Yams IMO :faf:

Sorry Lyonhibs, it's nothing personal it's simply that nobody seems to have picked up on the fact that your avatar is 'just banter' yet ABE is racist :rolleyes:

FWIW, I don't think that wanting the opposition to lose has got anything to do with hatred - not from my perspective anyway. But then again I've always had xenophobic tendancies :greengrin

[Hibby D]

Footballing hatred :confused:

WTF?

Aye, it sure is an illusatration of some peoples xenophobic and almost racist view of the English; about as much as Lyonhibs' avatar being xenophobic and a symbol of hatred towards the Yams IMO :faf:

Sorry Lyonhibs, it's nothing personal it's simply that nobody seems to have picked up on the fact that your avatar is 'just banter' yet ABE is racist :rolleyes:

FWIW, I don't think that wanting the opposition to lose has got anything to do with hatred - not from my perspective anyway. But then again I've always had xenophobic tendancies :greengrin

I think the only one who hinted that the ABE t-shirts might be racist is the daft copper who took it upon himself to have a word with the shop owner.

Some of us just don't get the whole "anyone but england" thing :crazy:

As for Lyon's avatar - I couldn't tell you what it is so I'll go have a look and I'll come back and have a moan if I understand it and don't think it's acceptable:eyes: :greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

I've never really had the chance to be a discriminated against minority before, I'm milking this for all it's worth...

P.s. In all seriousness, you're a little bit mental if you think that 'anti-English racism' in Scotland is anything to be concerned with whatsoever.

You should pop into a busy hostelry when England are playing their World Cup games.

It's not pleasant.

My English wife is a gentle wee soul, really kind, caring and likeable. One time when England were on TV, I mistakenly took her for a drink in the Corstorphine Inn, which can hardly be described as a violent, no-go pub.

Grown men were shouting "F'n English ****" and "Getintae these F'n English Bastarts" at the TV top of their voice, without anyone in the pub seeming remotely concerned.

She was shocked, upset and genuinely frightened.

She still doesn't understand why folk that haven't even met her, have such hatred towards her and her country.

"Oh it's just football rivalry" doesn't quite work.

I don't think I'm mental to be concerned about it.

[lapsedhibee]

You should pop into a busy hostelry when England are playing their World Cup games.

It's not pleasant.

My English wife is a gentle wee soul, really kind, caring and likeable. One time when England were on TV, I mistakenly took her for a drink in the Corstorphine Inn, which can hardly be described as a violent, no-go pub.

Grown men were shouting "F'n English ****" and "Getintae these F'n English Bastarts" at the TV top of their voice, without anyone in the pub seeming remotely concerned.

She was shocked, upset and genuinely frightened.

She still doesn't understand why folk that haven't even met her, have such hatred towards her and her country.

"Oh it's just football rivalry" doesn't quite work.

I don't think I'm mental to be concerned about it.

It's not pleasant for anyone that's not interested in fitba to be in a pub with committed fitba fans. I wouldn't stay in a pub while an OFGTF game was being shown, and I'm a lot bigger and more Scottish than Mrs Radge. Describing the fitba fans as "hating" her is perhaps being a bit oversensitive/protective, non? :dunno:

[Hibbyradge]

Describing the fitba fans as "hating" her is perhaps being a bit oversensitive/protective, non? :dunno:

That was her description, not mine. It was how she felt.

Can you imagine being the only Scot in a pub full of angry looking English football fans who were screaming F'n Scottish **** at the top of the voices.

Even for an experienced football fan, it would be pretty difficult just to smile and call it rivalry and banter.

It would feel like hate to me.

[Calvin]

I definitely have some anti-English feeling in my head. I like English people perfectly fine, but I don't like 'Englishness' - I can't define what it is exactly but I'm sure people on here will know what I mean.

[LiverpoolHibs]

You should pop into a busy hostelry when England are playing their World Cup games.

It's not pleasant.

My English wife is a gentle wee soul, really kind, caring and likeable. One time when England were on TV, I mistakenly took her for a drink in the Corstorphine Inn, which can hardly be described as a violent, no-go pub.

Grown men were shouting "F'n English ****" and "Getintae these F'n English Bastarts" at the TV top of their voice, without anyone in the pub seeming remotely concerned.

She was shocked, upset and genuinely frightened.

She still doesn't understand why folk that haven't even met her, have such hatred towards her and her country.

"Oh it's just football rivalry" doesn't quite work.

I don't think I'm mental to be concerned about it.

I've watched any number of England games - despite having no interest in the result, I hasten to add - in pubs in Glasgow and I've never felt even remotely threatened.

Obviously I can't speak for you and your wife's experience (and that sounds unpleasant) but I don't think it's in any way the norm.

[Ireallywasthere]

I think it has a lot to do with the media coverage we are subjected to. The BBC is hardly impartial and they tend to forget that they are broadcasting to the nation. We might be different if we had scottish commentators and "experts" in the studio insead of Ian Wright.

There surely must be some old firm ex player out there that is currently unemployed and could do a job there :devil:

[sKipper]

There's football rivalry and there's downright hatred - wanting England to get thumped in the WC is more than just rivalry to some and downright hatred to many. I condone rivalry but not hatred; not in the true sense of the word.

Let's face it, if England do win the WC, and the chances of them doing that are not slim, it would be a massive achievement; the likes of which this wee nation of ours can only dream about. And if it were ever to happen, we'd never let anyone forget it and we'd ram it down everyone's throats for a lifetime and more (take 0-7 & 6-2 as an analogy)

I simply think it's time us Scots bit the bullet when it comes to English football and give up on this incessant need to see them gubbed at every available opportunity just because they're from England(shire) :greengrin


Why ???:cool2:

Do you also want us to support Hearts if they get further than us in Cup comps etc :rolleyes:

[ArabHibee]

You should pop into a busy hostelry when England are playing their World Cup games.

It's not pleasant.

My English wife is a gentle wee soul, really kind, caring and likeable. One time when England were on TV, I mistakenly took her for a drink in the Corstorphine Inn, which can hardly be described as a violent, no-go pub.

Grown men were shouting "F'n English ****" and "Getintae these F'n English Bastarts" at the TV top of their voice, without anyone in the pub seeming remotely concerned.

She was shocked, upset and genuinely frightened.

She still doesn't understand why folk that haven't even met her, have such hatred towards her and her country.

"Oh it's just football rivalry" doesn't quite work.

I don't think I'm mental to be concerned about it.

I sort of get where you are coming from. An ex-boyfriend of mine was a bit of a mixed bag. Scottish Dad, German Mum, born in Belgium and brought up in Southern England (so you can imagine the accent).

I remember being in a pub with him during a week night at a pub quiz. The pub wasn't very busy and we were having quite a laugh and maybe a bit noisy. I remember going to the bar and walking past 2 lads sitting near us and heard one of them calling my ex-bf an "english twat".

When we went to watch the second leg of the Euro 2000 qualifiers I made sure he was wearing a Scotland football top and told him 'best to not say too much'.

[lapsedhibee]

I remember being in a pub with him during a week night at a pub quiz. The pub wasn't very busy and we were having quite a laugh and maybe a bit noisy. I remember going to the bar and walking past 2 lads sitting near us and heard one of them calling my ex-bf an "english twat".

You don't say, though, whether he was a twat. If he was, what's yer point? :dunno:

[ArabHibee]

You don't say, though, whether he was a twat. If he was, what's yer point? :dunno:

Well, he wasn't when the incident occurred. :greengrin

[Pete]

I've watched any number of England games - despite having no interest in the result, I hasten to add - in pubs in Glasgow and I've never felt even remotely threatened.

Obviously I can't speak for you and your wife's experience (and that sounds unpleasant) but I don't think it's in any way the norm.

Maybe the pubs in Glasgow you were in were Rangers pubs.

Every high profile game I have seen in pubs in Edinburgh has had a similar atmosphere to the one Hibbyradge described. A general cheering of the opposition team is OK but there are always some idiots who take it too far creating an uncomfortable and edgy atmosphere. England is too close and our communities are too intertwined for these comments not to offend someone.

It's about a dozen pubs in the west and south of Edinburgh I'm basing this on.

[Hibby D]

Why ???:cool2:

Do you also want us to support Hearts if they get further than us in Cup comps etc :rolleyes:

No no no :no way: as I've already indicated, there's nothing wrong with good old fashioned football rivalry. However referring to someone as "English Sc*m" (ala Radge's experience in the Corrie Inn) is more than football rivalry. I'd suggest that when it's said with such venom, it goes far deeper than that.

And I'd wager that in amongst all those folk who buy and wear an ABE t-shirt as a bit of fun/footballing rivarly, there will be some who wear it like a badge of honour to show just how much he/she hates the 'F'n English Sc*m'.

When my sister-in-law first came to live in Scotland, albeit nearly 25 years ago, she was often reduced to tears by some of the anti-English stuff she witnessed. It took her a long time to settle as a result. I'd hate to think one of my sons would be subjected to that should either of them ever decide to go live in England or any other country for that matter.

Anyway I digress - the answer to your question is a resounding no :greengrin

[danhibees1875]

Dont plan to buy a t-shirt, but that's my mentality as with any sporting event that involves England.

My local game station had the flags up of the 3 other countries for the last world cup England were in... T&T, sweden?, .... :confused: I don't recall any complaints from anyone then.


:hnet:

[LiverpoolHibs]

Maybe the pubs in Glasgow you were in were Rangers pubs.

Every high profile game I have seen in pubs in Edinburgh has had a similar atmosphere to the one Hibbyradge described. A general cheering of the opposition team is OK but there are always some idiots who take it too far creating an uncomfortable and edgy atmosphere. England is too close and our communities are too intertwined for these comments not to offend someone.

It's about a dozen pubs in the west and south of Edinburgh I'm basing this on.

Nope, not at all.

I'm not suggesting there was polite applause and congratulation of England goals, quite the opposite. Just that I've never felt uncomfortable, thought it best to hide my accent or anything like that.

[majorhibs]

I think it has a lot to do with the media coverage we are subjected to. The BBC is hardly impartial and they tend to forget that they are broadcasting to the nation. We might be different if we had scottish commentators and "experts" in the studio insead of Ian Wright.

There surely must be some old firm ex player out there that is currently unemployed and could do a job there :devil:

As a schoolkid it was the media that set me off, just getting into football as a child, Hibs & Scotland, then every couple of years the big international tourneys came around, I support Scotland but the TV I am watching is giving it engurland this that & the next, soon as I started thinking independently my sense of injustice is up & running cos I dont want "us" or think of as "we" the team in white on my parents telly, into adulthood & working away a bit & encountering these engerlunders, good workmates as they may be when it comes to sport they are in the main obnoxious big heeded condescending to an inferior nation individuals who while knowledgeable about their own team were about as realistic as the possibility of a Scottish referee who was good at his job, anyways the gist is no other nation outside the UK would have to put up with their national TV supporting their neighbours, and all the other numerous factors which go into a lifetime of living here, and especially when you travel into the big bad world & constantly get referred to as english before you have to correct whomever that you are indeed "Scottish". Then working with engerlunders when they win a game in the world cup- you have to be far from home to experience the dread of knowing its 5 or 6 days before the possibility of them getting knocked out comes along again, but believe me, once that inevitable penalty shootout comes around, whichever round it is in, the scenes of angst & soul searching, the post mortems, tears & tantrums, make me personally feel like wearing about 10 of them t-shirts at once, glorious moments them which almost, ALMOST take me back to '86, the best of them all! (ps for the pedantic- I dont like usin paragraphs, this would be an apology if I could see what you were gettin all upset about)

[Steve-O]

Absolute nonsense to suggest (for the most part, there will always be some nutters out there) that wanting England to get beat means that you HATE England.

I want England to lose at all sports, however I have no problem with English people whatsoever and when meeting any it doesn't cross my mind that I 'hate' them or anything like that! I have English friends, have had English work colleagues.

A few people getting a bit oversensitive I would suggest.

As for the t-shirt, not that funny, but nothing to suggest it's the Scottish equivalent of a KKK uniform!

[PeeJay]

When I was a young lad and England actually did win the World cup I remember me and all my mates down in Craigmillar celebrating. We loved every minute of that World Cup! There was no English hatred at all. What changed all that?

Naturally, I always want Scotland to beat England, but I've never wanted a team outwith the UK to beat a British team. I've lived in Germany for 30+ years, but I still want UK teams to beat Germany, be they Wales, N. Ireland, England or us. I know many English people who have 'supported' Scotland in tournaments (BBC included!). I have never understood the willingness of the "Scottish" to support any old foreigner (Argentina, I ask you...) as long as they beat the English.

If you ask me, it does not reflect well on the Scottish mentality outside the UK that is. Most people think it is peculiar or strange; a sign of a nation riddled with an inferiority complex, a sign of a nation that can only define itself through hatred of another nation. It's a bit like Hearts fans going on about us never winning the Scottish Cup, in truth it's all they've got going for them, and if we ever do win it, then they might as well cease to exist.

I wonder what it will take for Scotland to grow up and stop embarrassing itself on the international stage? Maybe we need to have a better footballing team, win the World Cup - actually DO SOMETHING, instead of railing at the English? It seems that that is all Scotland has: laughing or celebrating English defeat at a tournament that WE NEVER QUALIFIED for - is that it :cool2:??? Is it England's fault that we achieve nothing?

The Scottish "racist" attitude towards the English does not endear us to anyone, it's highly embarrassing and no-one apart from partying Scotsmen thinks it's clever. Perhaps people could consider looking at Scotland from the outside, and ask themselves is that how Scotland as a nation wants to be viewed? Then again, maybe it's easier just to point the finger at the English, because then Scotland doesn't have to look too closely at its own failings ... heads in the sand and all that!

Me, I'm looking forward to the World Cup and I hope England win, (failing that Germany) but then my great grandmother and grandfather were born over the border... unlike most Scottish people, I guess.

[Danderhall Hibs]

When I was a young lad and England actually did win the World cup I remember me and all my mates down in Craigmillar celebrating. We loved every minute of that World Cup! There was no English hatred at all. What changed all that?

Naturally, I always want Scotland to beat England, but I've never wanted a team outwith the UK to beat a British team. I've lived in Germany for 30+ years, but I still want UK teams to beat Germany, be they Wales, N. Ireland, England or us. I know many English people who have 'supported' Scotland in tournaments (BBC included!). I have never understood the willingness of the "Scottish" to support any old foreigner (Argentina, I ask you...) as long as they beat the English.

If you ask me, it does not reflect well on the Scottish mentality outside the UK that is. Most people think it is peculiar or strange; a sign of a nation riddled with an inferiority complex, a sign of a nation that can only define itself through hatred of another nation. It's a bit like Hearts fans going on about us never winning the Scottish Cup, in truth it's all they've got going for them, and if we ever do win it, then they might as well cease to exist.

I wonder what it will take for Scotland to grow up and stop embarrassing itself on the international stage? Maybe we need to have a better footballing team, win the World Cup - actually DO SOMETHING, instead of railing at the English? It seems that that is all Scotland has: laughing or celebrating English defeat at a tournament that WE NEVER QUALIFIED for - is that it :cool2:??? Is it England's fault that we achieve nothing?

The Scottish "racist" attitude towards the English does not endear us to anyone, it's highly embarrassing and no-one apart from partying Scotsmen thinks it's clever. Perhaps people could consider looking at Scotland from the outside, and ask themselves is that how Scotland as a nation wants to be viewed? Then again, maybe it's easier just to point the finger at the English, because then Scotland doesn't have to look too closely at its own failings ... heads in the sand and all that!

Me, I'm looking forward to the World Cup and I hope England win, (failing that Germany) but then my great grandmother and grandfather were born over the border... unlike most Scottish people, I guess.


Good post PeeJay - I get embarrassed at all the anti-English stuff as well. Most folk don't even know what it is that they "hate" - sometimes it's the media, other times it's to do with the 256th verse of God Save the Queen when they say something about slaying Scots or something.

[--------]

You should pop into a busy hostelry when England are playing their World Cup games.

It's not pleasant.

My English wife is a gentle wee soul, really kind, caring and likeable. One time when England were on TV, I mistakenly took her for a drink in the Corstorphine Inn, which can hardly be described as a violent, no-go pub.

Grown men were shouting "F'n English ****" and "Getintae these F'n English Bastarts" at the TV top of their voice, without anyone in the pub seeming remotely concerned.

She was shocked, upset and genuinely frightened.

She still doesn't understand why folk that haven't even met her, have such hatred towards her and her country.

"Oh it's just football rivalry" doesn't quite work.

I don't think I'm mental to be concerned about it.


It's not pleasant for anyone that's not interested in fitba to be in a pub with committed fitba fans. I wouldn't stay in a pub while an OFGTF game was being shown, and I'm a lot bigger and more Scottish than Mrs Radge. Describing the fitba fans as "hating" her is perhaps being a bit oversensitive/protective, non? :dunno:


I've often thought that if Scots generally, and Scottish sporting organisations in particular, could get past the Anyone But England thing, we might JUST have a chance of improving our sporting performances and the general health of the people.

But then, when one considers the amount of hatred flying around generally in Scotland, maybe we should just apply to the IOC for 'hating people' to be made an Olympic Sport? (Mind you, I have a nasty feeling that our near neighbours in Norn Irn would pip us for the gold medal....)

I can fully understand Mrs Radge's feelings. And I have to admit that to my shame, I've behaved just as those guys in the pub were behaving, until one evening my son walked out of the living room and refused to watch an England World Cup tie with me because of my attitude and behaviour.

THAT was a wake-up call. I've not been as bad since - I think. :rolleyes:

And I withdraw post 36 unreservedly - although I was thinking much more of the agonised squawking that would emanate from Messrs Tyldesley, Pleat, Motson, etc than anything else. I THINK that was 'banter' - but then the trouble is that 'banter' escalates to 'abuse' to 'hateful abuse' very, very easily.

I think PeeJay says it best:

"When I was a young lad and England actually did win the World cup I remember me and all my mates down in Craigmillar celebrating. We loved every minute of that World Cup! There was no English hatred at all. What changed all that?

Naturally, I always want Scotland to beat England, but I've never wanted a team outwith the UK to beat a British team. I've lived in Germany for 30+ years, but I still want UK teams to beat Germany, be they Wales, N. Ireland, England or us. I know many English people who have 'supported' Scotland in tournaments (BBC included!). I have never understood the willingness of the "Scottish" to support any old foreigner (Argentina, I ask you...) as long as they beat the English.

If you ask me, it does not reflect well on the Scottish mentality outside the UK that is. Most people think it is peculiar or strange; a sign of a nation riddled with an inferiority complex, a sign of a nation that can only define itself through hatred of another nation. It's a bit like Hearts fans going on about us never winning the Scottish Cup, in truth it's all they've got going for them, and if we ever do win it, then they might as well cease to exist.

I wonder what it will take for Scotland to grow up and stop embarrassing itself on the international stage? Maybe we need to have a better footballing team, win the World Cup - actually DO SOMETHING, instead of railing at the English? It seems that that is all Scotland has: laughing or celebrating English defeat at a tournament that WE NEVER QUALIFIED for - is that it :cool2:??? Is it England's fault that we achieve nothing?

The Scottish "racist" attitude towards the English does not endear us to anyone, it's highly embarrassing and no-one apart from partying Scotsmen thinks it's clever. Perhaps people could consider looking at Scotland from the outside, and ask themselves is that how Scotland as a nation wants to be viewed? Then again, maybe it's easier just to point the finger at the English, because then Scotland doesn't have to look too closely at its own failings ... heads in the sand and all that!"

Top post, young man.

Now - how many of us Scots posting here would be prepared to do a Danny Baker and wear an England shirt for charity? or a Hearts shirt?

[Phil D. Rolls]

I've watched any number of England games - despite having no interest in the result, I hasten to add - in pubs in Glasgow and I've never felt even remotely threatened.

Obviously I can't speak for you and your wife's experience (and that sounds unpleasant) but I don't think it's in any way the norm.

Hansen :dunno:.........oh come to think of it, we need Scottish pundits, they are a national broadcaster.:agree: