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blackpoolhibs
20-02-2010, 08:04 PM
That's a game we did not deserve to lose. I will have to wait and see the sending off again, but it looked harsh to me. We played for roughly an hour with 10 men, and were very unlucky at the end to lose the goal. We competed well all over the park, defended well, and I'm sure had we had 11 men on the park, we would not have lost that game.

Jonnyboy
20-02-2010, 08:05 PM
That's a game we did not deserve to lose. I will have to wait and see the sending off again, but it looked harsh to me. We played for roughly an hour with 10 men, and were very unlucky at the end to lose the goal. We competed well all over the park, defended well, and I'm sure had we had 11 men on the park, we would not have lost that game.

:agree:

Shrekko
20-02-2010, 08:07 PM
That's a game we did not deserve to lose. I will have to wait and see the sending off again, but it looked harsh to me. We played for roughly an hour with 10 men, and were very unlucky at the end to lose the goal. We competed well all over the park, defended well, and I'm sure had we had 11 men on the park, we would not have lost that game.

Do you think we could actually have won it or scored a goal with 11?

Does competed all over the park mean lots of hacking and hoofing?

I know you're wanting to back Yogi, and so do I, but sometimes things arent right, and today was one of those days. Awful team line up and awful performance- the kind of thing I'd have expected under Mixu or Bobby Williamson.

PC Stamp
20-02-2010, 08:11 PM
It wasn't a flair performance but compared to St Johnstone, everyone rolled up their sleeves and worked their collective erses off. 11 v 11 we may still not have won though it may have allowed Hughes different options from the bench. 11 v 10 for almost an hour was always going to be hard and like BH I thought the effort was worthy of a point.

Jonnyboy
20-02-2010, 08:11 PM
Do you think we could actually have won it or scored a goal with 11?

Does competed all over the park mean lots of hacking and hoofing?

I know you're wanting to back Yogi, and so do I, but sometimes things arent right, and today was one of those days. Awful team line up and awful performance- the kind of thing I'd have expected under Mixu or Bobby Williamson.

The thing is Rich you can't play football on that surface so Yogi picked a side that could deal with that and yet some posters on here are complaining! I do think we could have taken something from the game had the ref either restricted Miller's red to a yellow because that's all he merited OR shown O'Brien a red for retaliation. If both sides had had ten men or eleven I think Hibs would have at the least earned a draw

Shrekko
20-02-2010, 08:17 PM
The thing is Rich you can't play football on that surface so Yogi picked a side that could deal with that and yet some posters on here are complaining! I do think we could have taken something from the game had the ref either restricted Miller's red to a yellow because that's all he merited OR shown O'Brien a red for retaliation. If both sides had had ten men or eleven I think Hibs would have at the least earned a draw

I know the argument is that he picked a side for a poor pitch but in my opinion he just picked a poor team.

If anyone can explain to me why Cregg and Stevenson are more suited to a bad pitch than Zemmama and McBride then I'm all ears. Did they make great tackles or anything like that? I certainly didnt see it- lots of hoofing and being brushed aside from Lewis, and Cregg just couldnt seem to get close to anyone.

Neither Gow nor Stokes could make anything of high balls so what was the point in playing a midfield who couldnt hold the ball?

I'm not overly demanding of Hibs but I hate watching us play horrible hoofball with skillful players available to play.

Sir David Gray
20-02-2010, 08:18 PM
I thought today was awful. The first half felt as though it had lasted for about two hours and the second half wasn't much better. I know the sending off didn't help and the pitch doesn't allow for good football to be played on it but I don't think that we ever really looked like scoring today and it was just an instantly forgettable afternoon.

I can't compare today's performance with Wednesday night as I wasn't there but I'm assuming that the workrate and commitment was a lot better than it was in Perth but there was still a lack of quality up front. The only time where I thought we had a decent chance to score was a couple of minutes from the end with Zemmama's free kick that just went past the post. Other than that, John Ruddy had practically nothing to worry about all afternoon.

Alfred E Newman
20-02-2010, 08:21 PM
Do you think we could actually have won it or scored a goal with 11?

Does competed all over the park mean lots of hacking and hoofing?

I know you're wanting to back Yogi, and so do I, but sometimes things arent right, and today was one of those days. Awful team line up and awful performance- the kind of thing I'd have expected under Mixu or Bobby Williamson.

It us unfair to criticise todays line up. It was no pitch to try and play a passing game . The ref cost us any chance of 3 points with his bizzare sending off and even with10 men we almost escaped with a point. I would question the substitution as the game opened up when Zemmama came on. Up to then we were comfortably heading for a draw. Gow is not match fit and seemed the obvious player to take off . Taking Cregg off left holes in midfield.

Jonnyboy
20-02-2010, 08:21 PM
I know the argument is that he picked a side for a poor pitch but in my opinion he just picked a poor team.

If anyone can explain to me why Cregg and Stevenson are more suited to a bad pitch than Zemmama and McBride then I'm all ears. Did they make great tackles or anything like that? I certainly didnt see it- lots of hoofing and being brushed aside from Lewis, and Cregg just couldnt seem to get close to anyone.

Neither Gow nor Stokes could make anything of high balls so what was the point in playing a midfield who couldnt hold the ball?

I'm not overly demanding of Hibs but I hate watching us play horrible hoofball with skillful players available to play.

I gues that's the point Rich. I'd wager McBride is not fully fit and so Yogi may not have wanted to use him unless he had to. Zouma is brill going forward but when we needed workers to close space down after Liam went off I felt Lewis and Paddy gave their all.

It's not the eleven I would have picked but I think I know why Yogi did it

blackpoolhibs
20-02-2010, 08:21 PM
Do you think we could actually have won it or scored a goal with 11?

Does competed all over the park mean lots of hacking and hoofing?

I know you're wanting to back Yogi, and so do I, but sometimes things arent right, and today was one of those days. Awful team line up and awful performance- the kind of thing I'd have expected under Mixu or Bobby Williamson.

The games on now on alaba, watch it if you can. As johnnyboy says, that pitch is awful, much worse than ours. If we had played Riordan, or Benji today, imho it would have reduced us to 9 men. Yogi picked a side to compete today, they did that and more. We were down to 10 men for an hour, on that pitch it would sap the energy of the fittest. If you think you can play any type of football there, and play the footballers we have, then i dont believe you know much about football. Yogi got the tactics right today, he just got a little unlucky with the sending off.

davym7062
20-02-2010, 08:30 PM
The games on now on alaba, watch it if you can. As johnnyboy says, that pitch is awful, much worse than ours. If we had played Riordan, or Benji today, imho it would have reduced us to 9 men. Yogi picked a side to compete today, they did that and more. We were down to 10 men for an hour, on that pitch it would sap the energy of the fittest. If you think you can play any type of football there, and play the footballers we have, then i dont believe you know much about football. Yogi got the tactics right today, he just got a little unlucky with the sending off.

:agree::agree::agree:

BEEJ
20-02-2010, 08:38 PM
There were a few posters on .net recently saying that our rise to third place in the SPL this season had nothing at all to do with luck. Fortune just didn't enter into the equation in any way, shape or form. We were there 100% on merit.

Perhaps now they'll see that good luck always plays a part in a run of good form. Because the opposite is also true, as was demonstrated today.

Crab apple
20-02-2010, 08:40 PM
It us unfair to criticise todays line up. It was no pitch to try and play a passing game . The ref cost us any chance of 3 points with his bizzare sending off and even with10 men we almost escaped with a point. I would question the substitution as the game opened up when Zemmama came on. Up to then we were comfortably heading for a draw. Gow is not match fit and seemed the obvious player to take off . Taking Cregg off left holes in midfield.

Agreed MB. Thought the starting formation was right for the pitch and to tighten things up after Wednesday. I personally would have kept Cregg on and gone for the draw. Taking Gow off would have meant Deeks coming on and not sure if he wuld have tightened things up more than Zouma.

Shrekko
20-02-2010, 08:41 PM
The games on now on alaba, watch it if you can. As johnnyboy says, that pitch is awful, much worse than ours. If we had played Riordan, or Benji today, imho it would have reduced us to 9 men. Yogi picked a side to compete today, they did that and more. We were down to 10 men for an hour, on that pitch it would sap the energy of the fittest. If you think you can play any type of football there, and play the footballers we have, then i dont believe you know much about football. Yogi got the tactics right today, he just got a little unlucky with the sending off.

Ok so I dont know much about football because I disagree with you.

Zemmama was our best player when he came on and started linking with the 2 front men who hadnt had a sniff before, and Motherwell played some very decent football at times- the likes of O'Brien still managed to look decent.

Guys like Rankin, Cregg, and Stevenson(to a lesser extent) can just about keep their heads above water at SPL level when playing as bit parts in a talented side- play them all together and you'll get what we got today and it wou.d have been the same on any pitch, i.e. we'd have created nowt.

Have other teams done the same at Fir Park?

Jonnyboy
20-02-2010, 08:47 PM
Ok so I dont know much about football because I disagree with you.

Zemmama was our best player when he came on and started linking with the 2 front men who hadnt had a sniff before, and Motherwell played some very decent football at times- the likes of O'Brien still managed to look decent.

Guys like Rankin, Cregg, and Stevenson(to a lesser extent) can just about keep their heads above water at SPL level when playing as bit parts in a talented side- play them all together and you'll get what we got today and it wou.d have been the same on any pitch, i.e. we'd have created nowt.

Have other teams done the same at Fir Park?

Indeed he was but he was also the player who gave away possession cheaply when Motherwell went up the park and scored. I honestly think he should have left Cregg on and settled for a point.

I agree about the lack of creation Rich. Maybe if Miller had stayed on we would have had that too

Booked4Being-Ugly
20-02-2010, 08:55 PM
Just saw the sending off on Alba - in real time looked bad, in slow mo was never a sending off. The reaction of the Well players ensured it was a red.

:grr:

On first half viewing - Hibs weren't nearly as bad as people were making out on the match thread.

A great shame that there were posters writing Hibs off for the rest of the season.

We'll bounce back from this.

:notworthy:

Jonnyboy
20-02-2010, 08:56 PM
Just saw the sending off on Alba - in real time looked bad, in slow mo was never a sending off. The reaction of the Well players ensured it was a red.

:grr:

On first half viewing - Hibs weren't nearly as bad as people were making out on the match thread.

A great shame that there were posters writing Hibs off for the rest of the season.

We'll bounce back from this.

:notworthy:

We were unlucky not to get a point. Didn't play all that well but still deserved a point

blackpoolhibs
20-02-2010, 08:57 PM
Ok so I dont know much about football because I disagree with you.

Zemmama was our best player when he came on and started linking with the 2 front men who hadnt had a sniff before, and Motherwell played some very decent football at times- the likes of O'Brien still managed to look decent.

Guys like Rankin, Cregg, and Stevenson(to a lesser extent) can just about keep their heads above water at SPL level when playing as bit parts in a talented side- play them all together and you'll get what we got today and it wou.d have been the same on any pitch, i.e. we'd have created nowt.

Have other teams done the same at Fir Park?

Sorry i shouldn't have said that. I agree Zemamma was our best player when he came on, although i dont agree playing our normal team today was the right thing to do, for a couple of reasons, mainly they were crap on wednesday, and some needed a kick up the arse, and the pitch. Riordan and benji imho would not have been keen on doing the ugly work of tracking back in the sand.

They are not at the top of the list of people you want in a battle, and make no mistake, that pitch makes it a battle. Couple that with going down to 10 men, we had imho the right players on the park. Zemamma might have won it for us, but had a bit of a hand in us losing the game. As i said, we were unlucky, the team and the manager.

Shrekko
20-02-2010, 09:21 PM
Sorry i shouldn't have said that. I agree Zemamma was our best player when he came on, although i dont agree playing our normal team today was the right thing to do, for a couple of reasons, mainly they were crap on wednesday, and some needed a kick up the arse, and the pitch. Riordan and benji imho would not have been keen on doing the ugly work of tracking back in the sand.

They are not at the top of the list of people you want in a battle, and make no mistake, that pitch makes it a battle. Couple that with going down to 10 men, we had imho the right players on the park. Zemamma might have won it for us, but had a bit of a hand in us losing the game. As i said, we were unlucky, the team and the manager.

I know Zouma gave the ball away cheaply but it definitely wasnt the first time a midfielder had done that- they all did it at various times and it was way up the park when he did so the goal should still have been prevented .

To an extent I do know what you and Johnny are saying and in the main I trust Yogi- he's a good manager, just IMO not a good enough manager to be making such wholesale changes all the time.

The players did work their socks off I dont deny that. I just want to see us being a progressive team who win games in a positive manner and to me that was just 'eye bleed' stuff today.

blackpoolhibs
20-02-2010, 09:29 PM
I know Zouma gave the ball away cheaply but it definitely wasnt the first time a midfielder had done that- they all did it at various times and it was way up the park when he did so the goal should still have been prevented .

To an extent I do know what you and Johnny are saying and in the main I trust Yogi- he's a good manager, just IMO not a good enough manager to be making such wholesale changes all the time.

The players did work their socks off I dont deny that. I just want to see us being a progressive team who win games in a positive manner and to me that was just 'eye bleed' stuff today.
We all want that, but surely you must concede that the pitch and only having 10 men contributed to the eye bleed stuff. I'm just watching it again, and Motherwell are hardly playing like Barcalona.:confused:

Jonnyboy
20-02-2010, 09:30 PM
I know Zouma gave the ball away cheaply but it definitely wasnt the first time a midfielder had done that- they all did it at various times and it was way up the park when he did so the goal should still have been prevented .

To an extent I do know what you and Johnny are saying and in the main I trust Yogi- he's a good manager, just IMO not a good enough manager to be making such wholesale changes all the time.

The players did work their socks off I dont deny that. I just want to see us being a progressive team who win games in a positive manner and to me that was just 'eye bleed' stuff today.

I'm with you there Rich but it was horses for courses today which is pretty apt as that pitch looked like horses had been trampling all over it :greengrin

Darth Hibbie
20-02-2010, 09:34 PM
Absolutely agree with you on this one Blackpool. Was nowhere near as bad as Wednesday and the sending of made all the difference come the last ten minutes.

greenlex
20-02-2010, 09:34 PM
I know Zouma gave the ball away cheaply but it definitely wasnt the first time a midfielder had done that- they all did it at various times and it was way up the park when he did so the goal should still have been prevented .

To an extent I do know what you and Johnny are saying and in the main I trust Yogi- he's a good manager, just IMO not a good enough manager to be making such wholesale changes all the time.

The players did work their socks off I dont deny that. I just want to see us being a progressive team who win games in a positive manner and to me that was just 'eye bleed' stuff today.

I would have settled for a point today eyes bleeding or not. 2 points clear in third and eight points clear of Well in fourth is so much better than the current 1 point and 5 points respectively.

silverhibee
20-02-2010, 09:55 PM
The games on now on alaba, watch it if you can. As johnnyboy says, that pitch is awful, much worse than ours. If we had played Riordan, or Benji today, imho it would have reduced us to 9 men. Yogi picked a side to compete today, they did that and more. We were down to 10 men for an hour, on that pitch it would sap the energy of the fittest. If you think you can play any type of football there, and play the footballers we have, then i dont believe you know much about football. Yogi got the tactics right today, he just got a little unlucky with the sending off.

BH, was at the game today but not got Alba, let me know if Motherwell deserved a penalty from a tackle from i think Rankin, looked a stonewaller at the time, and if the camera's caught it, a kick out from LS while tracking back on a Motherwell player, could have seen red for it if the ref seen it.
The ref was poor today, but i think he was poor for both sides.
The team that Yogi put out today, wasn't my choice, no creativity, wee never looked like scoring a goal today, imo i thought Well deserved the win today, they won every thing, and for the pitch being so bad Well played some good passing football on that swamp, beach like pitch.
Another bad day for Hibs and Yogi, by the way Rankin on the left midfield today never went past his man all game.:wink::greengrin

greenlex
20-02-2010, 09:59 PM
BH, was at the game today but not got Alba, let me know if Motherwell deserved a penalty from a tackle from i think Rankin, looked a stonewaller at the time, and if the camera's caught it, a kick out from LS while tracking back on a Motherwell player, could have seen red for it if the ref seen it.
The ref was poor today, but i think he was poor for both sides.
The team that Yogi put out today, wasn't my choice, no creativity, wee never looked like scoring a goal today, imo i thought Well deserved the win today, they won every thing, and for the pitch being so bad Well played some good passing football on that swamp, beach like pitch.
Another bad day for Hibs and Yogi, by the way Rankin on the left midfield today never went past his man all game.:wink::greengrin
Just like watching Deeks. :wink: :greengrin

jgl07
20-02-2010, 10:00 PM
Do you think we could actually have won it or scored a goal with 11?

Does competed all over the park mean lots of hacking and hoofing?

I know you're wanting to back Yogi, and so do I, but sometimes things arent right, and today was one of those days. Awful team line up and awful performance- the kind of thing I'd have expected under Mixu or Bobby Williamson.
What else is possible playing on a plougued field?

blackpoolhibs
20-02-2010, 10:02 PM
BH, was at the game today but not got Alba, let me know if Motherwell deserved a penalty from a tackle from i think Rankin, looked a stonewaller at the time, and if the camera's caught it, a kick out from LS while tracking back on a Motherwell player, could have seen red for it if the ref seen it.
The ref was poor today, but i think he was poor for both sides.
The team that Yogi put out today, wasn't my choice, no creativity, wee never looked like scoring a goal today, imo i thought Well deserved the win today, they won every thing, and for the pitch being so bad Well played some good passing football on that swamp, beach like pitch.
Another bad day for Hibs and Yogi, by the way Rankin on the left midfield today never went past his man all game.:wink::greengrin

If you mean the one with rankin that was on the bye line in the 2nd half, i dont think it was a penalty. The stevenson one i never saw, the camera never showed anything either. As for well deserving their win, i disagree, and concidering they had 1 more for over an hour, hardly made any chances at all.

silverhibee
20-02-2010, 10:04 PM
Just like watching Deeks. :wink: :greengrin

So Rankin should be the scapegoat then , if its good for Deeks then its good for Ranks.:wink::greengrin

greenlex
20-02-2010, 10:06 PM
So Rankin should be the scapegoat then , if its good for Deeks then its good for Ranks.:wink::greengrin
Nah its Miller this week . :greengrin

silverhibee
20-02-2010, 10:07 PM
If you mean the one with rankin that was on the bye line in the 2nd half, i dont think it was a penalty. The stevenson one i never saw, the camera never showed anything either. As for well deserving their win, i disagree, and concidering they had 1 more for over an hour, hardly made any chances at all.

Cheers BH, specsavers on Monday.:thumbsup:

Shrekko
21-02-2010, 12:34 AM
We all want that, but surely you must concede that the pitch and only having 10 men contributed to the eye bleed stuff. I'm just watching it again, and Motherwell are hardly playing like Barcalona.:confused:

The pitch was diabolical- only point I'm making is that Motherwell play their strongest team and dont just send out the journeyman types.

You're braver than me watching it again :wink:

Steve20
21-02-2010, 12:34 AM
11 v 11, we were secong best. Even worse when we went to ten men. It was a red card.

We got what we deserved.

Removed
21-02-2010, 12:37 AM
11 v 11, we were secong best. Even worse when we went to ten men. It was a red card.

We got what we deserved.

Have you been drinking? That's bollocks.

matty_f
21-02-2010, 12:41 AM
Absolutely agree with you on this one Blackpool. Was nowhere near as bad as Wednesday and the sending of made all the difference come the last ten minutes.

:agree: Have to agree with that too.

shamo9
21-02-2010, 12:44 AM
There were a few posters on .net recently saying that our rise to third place in the SPL this season had nothing at all to do with luck. Fortune just didn't enter into the equation in any way, shape or form. We were there 100% on merit.

Perhaps now they'll see that good luck always plays a part in a run of good form. Because the opposite is also true, as was demonstrated today.

I don't believe that for a second, you can't bring luck into an argument, it's not quantifiable or even falsifiable.

Our bad run started against Rangers. We were outdone by a moment of brilliance from Whittaker, no bad luck there, we know all too well that he has that in his locker. Bamba then proceeds to recklessly dive in to hand Rangers a penalty: stupidity not luck. Mcbride's slip for the third goes with the territory of playing a player that is clearly struggling with a chronic ankle injury.

Then we had St Johnstone... don't even try to bring luck into that - we were pish, plain and simple.

And finally Motherwell, well, the state of the pitch ruled out any possibility of free flowing football, which left us with no option but to get stuck in and hope for a defensive lapse. Miller's lunge was stupid - much like Bamba's penalty lunge - and born out of the frustration at the run we're currently having. Yes, the red card was harsh but we wouldn't of even found ourselves in that position had we been playing with the confidence of before this run. Motherwell's goal had been coming for a while, and it was due solely to tiring legs as a result of playing with ten men for over an hour.

Bringing luck into any equation is just due to being too lazy to fully analyse the situation. The fact that it has become so common in everyday language leads people to swallow it as more than just a turn of phrase without actually thinking.

BEEJ
21-02-2010, 12:51 AM
Bringing luck into any equation is just due to being too lazy to fully analyse the situation. The fact that it has become so common in everyday language leads people to swallow it as more than just a turn of phrase without actually thinking.
You'd better take that up with the OP then. He thought up the thread title.

And others appear to have agreed with him.

But you have to be consistent. There can't be an absence of good fortune (even just here and there) on the way up, but then a truckload of bad karma on the way back down. :wink:

Steve20
21-02-2010, 12:52 AM
Have you been drinking? That's bollocks.

What's bollocks about it like? You seriously saying we deserved anything today? We were poor again and never even looked like scoring.

If anyone has been drinking, it's anyone who thinks we were unlucky today.

shamo9
21-02-2010, 01:00 AM
You'd better take that up with the OP then. He thought up the thread title.

And others appear to have agreed with him.

But you have to be consistent. There can't be an absence of good fortune (even just here and there) on the way up, but then a truckload of bad karma on the way back down. :wink:

Oh, I'm certainly consistent. I remember bitching about it after the St Mirren game (own goal) where everyone put it down to luck.

That's not to say I have a problem with people using the word lucky, I just see it as an expression. It's when people start talking about this mystical force that determines whether you succeed or not that really irritates me.

Luck is for losers looking for an excuse, or winners trying pitifully to be humble:wink:

Removed
21-02-2010, 01:07 AM
What's bollocks about it like? You seriously saying we deserved anything today? We were poor again and never even looked like scoring.

If anyone has been drinking, it's anyone who thinks we were unlucky today.

Yes, I think we deserved a draw.

You said "11 v 11, we were second best" On what basis do you work work that out. I only remember 1 save Stack had to make.

The "Even worse when we went to ten men" I'd expect us to be second best then but I still don't think we were.

"It was a red card" well from what I saw it wasn't. Not seen it on tv though but texts I got said radio pundits thought it was harsh.

BEEJ
21-02-2010, 01:09 AM
Luck is for losers looking for an excuse, or winners trying pitifully to be humble:wink:
It invariably plays a part - every sporting professional will tell you.

From your opponent failing properly to exploit your own mistakes (eg missing an open goal) to referees being unusually charitable in their split-second decisions. It can appear in all manner of forms.

It might only account for 5% of the reason why a team is where it is in the league - the other 95% being down to skill, fitness, tactics etc etc - but it is a factor nonetheless.

Another referee might only have booked Miller today and we might then have gone on and got something from the game. On such decisions are matches won and lost.

erskine-hibby
21-02-2010, 01:14 AM
We lost, full stop.

Had we been all over them like a rash, hit the post, bar, their keeper played a blinder and still came away with nothing, that, would have been unlucky, but as has been said many times 'you make your own luck', we didn't.