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blackpoolhibs
18-02-2010, 01:57 PM
While we dont expect to be beaten 5-1 at St Johnstone, i cant help feeling the over reaction to every bad result, or players mistakes are due to how well we actually have been doing, and expectations have risen since last year.

I have heard we have been lucky, the leagues sheight, all manner of reasons why we are 3rd, apart from doing better than the rest. :confused: We can only beat who are put in front of us, we cant be the only team who are getting luck, what happened to you make your own luck, and it evens itself out over the season?

People have to remember, we are only 8 months into the new mans tenure, and without going over the top, we are well ahead of what i expected this season. Perhaps i'm wrong, but surely nobody thought we'd be doing this well?:confused:

HFC 0-7
18-02-2010, 02:06 PM
While we dont expect to be beaten 5-1 at St Johnstone, i cant help feeling the over reaction to every bad result, or players mistakes are due to how well we actually have been doing, and expectations have risen since last year.

I have heard we have been lucky, the leagues sheight, all manner of reasons why we are 3rd, apart from doing better than the rest. :confused: We can only beat who are put in front of us, we cant be the only team who are getting luck, what happened to you make your own luck, and it evens itself out over the season?

People have to remember, we are only 8 months into the new mans tenure, and without going over the top, we are well ahead of what i expected this season. Perhaps i'm wrong, but surely nobody thought we'd be doing this well?:confused:

The first part is usually used by fans or teams who are lucky but wont face that and claim you make your own luck. The second part fans use when they have been lucky and dont want to admit it.(Rangers and Celtic fans use this often in the light of a penalty after a dive or the opposition goal being chopped off for offside when clearly they are on side)

blackpoolhibs
18-02-2010, 02:07 PM
The first part is usually used by fans or teams who are lucky but wont face that and claim you make your own luck. The second part fans use when they have been lucky and dont want to admit it.(Rangers and Celtic fans use this often in the light of a penalty after a dive or the opposition goal being chopped off for offside when clearly they are on side)

Are we 3rd on merit or not?

lEXO
18-02-2010, 02:15 PM
While we dont expect to be beaten 5-1 at St Johnstone, i cant help feeling the over reaction to every bad result, or players mistakes are due to how well we actually have been doing, and expectations have risen since last year.

I have heard we have been lucky, the leagues sheight, all manner of reasons why we are 3rd, apart from doing better than the rest. :confused: We can only beat who are put in front of us, we cant be the only team who are getting luck, what happened to you make your own luck, and it evens itself out over the season?

People have to remember, we are only 8 months into the new mans tenure, and without going over the top, we are well ahead of what i expected this season. Perhaps i'm wrong, but surely nobody thought we'd be doing this well?:confused:
Agreed.I hoped for an improvement and better performances than last season.Overall it has been much better, and results like last nights should,nt happen, but they do sometimes.Over reaction to our results are always going to happen.I did,nt think we were world beaters when we were on our unbeaten run,but some did.We are building a team, and sometimes they learn more from defeat than victory.

HFC 0-7
18-02-2010, 02:23 PM
Are we 3rd on merit or not?

I would say both to be honest. i think we have had a lot of luck this season but at the same time I think we are a much better team than last season. In terms of expectations, defeat last night is not what has annoyed fans so much, its the way we were defeated. Beaten everywhere all over the park and the players seemed very un interested in it all. fans expect decent performances, last night I think was the worst in a long time, but recent performances (first half of rangers excluded) have been well below par. even against Montrose and Irvine Meadow I thought we have been poor. Most of the season it has been bad or average performances peppered with good ones, when it should be the other way round.

blackpoolhibs
18-02-2010, 02:25 PM
Agreed.I hoped for an improvement and better performances than last season.Overall it has been much better, and results like last nights should,nt happen, but they do sometimes.Over reaction to our results are always going to happen.I did,nt think we were world beaters when we were on our unbeaten run,but some did.We are building a team, and sometimes they learn more from defeat than victory.

I too hoped for improvement, but never expected as much as we have got. I think we have 4 maybe even 5 players who are not quite up to the job, although they have been doing well as a team. We never have been world beaters, but are nowhere near as bad as some people are making out. As you say, we are building a team, we need to remember that sometimes.

blackpoolhibs
18-02-2010, 02:28 PM
I would say both to be honest. i think we have had a lot of luck this season but at the same time I think we are a much better team than last season. In terms of expectations, defeat last night is not what has annoyed fans so much, its the way we were defeated. Beaten everywhere all over the park and the players seemed very un interested in it all. fans expect decent performances, last night I think was the worst in a long time, but recent performances (first half of rangers excluded) have been well below par. even against Montrose and Irvine Meadow I thought we have been poor. Most of the season it has been bad or average performances peppered with good ones, when it should be the other way round.

Why would you think that after the way we had been playing prior to Yogi arriving?

CallumLaidlaw
18-02-2010, 02:28 PM
kinda what I was trying to say the other day http://www.hibs.net/message/showpost.php?p=2354973&postcount=24

Aubenas
18-02-2010, 02:42 PM
Yeh - we have carried some luck this season and got results out of below par performances, but beyond any doubt the club is going places with the infrastructure, the quality of play, albeit inconsistent, and the type of player signed. We have players who are with us because, though talented, they can't turn it on every week.

You could look at the squad and say Hoggy is whole hearted but sometimes makes errors, Sol is a bit up and down though brilliant when on his game, Hanlon is learning, as is Spoon, MIller, according to those who have watched him in the past, veers from class to inconsequential, Benji and Zouma are hugely talented but don't always know how to impose themselves on the game, Deek is an enigma and vanishes for long periods before scoring ace goals, Stokes has learning to do and isn't adaptable enough, or quick enough to play well when the system doesn't suit him - but still has scored a hatful, Nishy is clumsy but sometimes effective, Rankin is energetic and forceful but often tries the impossible instead of the simple. McBride, Murray and Smith are good effective players for top 3 SPL.

This is not slagging anyone off but pointing out that most of our players are short of complete and yet have still being playing well enough as a team to be in 3rd place. And let's remember we have Byrne, Galbraith and a few others still to break through.

It's a good season for Hibs and, in any rebuilding process, there will be hiccups. Last night was hard to take but, equally, I can think of 5 or 6 times this season when we've sneaked a win or a draw when last year we would have lost.
Finally, Yogi is also learning about top 3 football and I reckon he knows he has 3 or 4 pieces to add to the jigsaw so we become less predictable and more adaptable.
Keep the Faith!
GGTTH:thumbsup:

HFC 0-7
18-02-2010, 02:55 PM
Why would you think that after the way we had been playing prior to Yogi arriving?

Because this season, with the players we have, and the few good performances we have put in we are underperforming. The players we have should be doing better IMO and thats why I think at present, fans expectations are not being met. I would never have expected Hibs to get beat 5 - 1 to a team like St johnstone even under Mixu, or any other previous manager. Yogi's expectations are that we should be aiming for 3rd this spot, but the last few games, even in his eyes are not up to expectations. Yogi this season, even when we have been winning has still said he expects and wants more, so his expectations were higher than we were playing. If fans and managers expectations are to do as well as the team does then the team will never move forward. Expectations need to continually increase for a team to improve, if they dont why would a team improve?

erskine-hibby
18-02-2010, 02:59 PM
Because this season, with the players we have, and the few good performances we have put in we are underperforming. The players we have should be doing better IMO and thats why I think at present, fans expectations are not being met. I would never have expected Hibs to get beat 5 - 1 to a team like St johnstone even under Mixu, or any other previous manager. Yogi's expectations are that we should be aiming for 3rd this spot, but the last few games, even in his eyes are not up to expectations. Yogi this season, even when we have been winning has still said he expects and wants more, so his expectations were higher than we were playing. If fans and managers expectations are to do as well as the team does then the team will never move forward. Expectations need to continually increase for a team to improve, if they dont why would a team improve?

:agree:
Would love to be the position of say celtic or rangers fans and expect good performances every week.
That said I would hate to be as complacent as them:greengrin

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having high expectations...shoot for the moon is what i say:agree:

blackpoolhibs
18-02-2010, 03:10 PM
Because this season, with the players we have, and the few good performances we have put in we are underperforming. The players we have should be doing better IMO and thats why I think at present, fans expectations are not being met. I would never have expected Hibs to get beat 5 - 1 to a team like St johnstone even under Mixu, or any other previous manager. Yogi's expectations are that we should be aiming for 3rd this spot, but the last few games, even in his eyes are not up to expectations. Yogi this season, even when we have been winning has still said he expects and wants more, so his expectations were higher than we were playing. If fans and managers expectations are to do as well as the team does then the team will never move forward. Expectations need to continually increase for a team to improve, if they dont why would a team improve?

You say we are under performing, others say we are over performing, and have been lucky.:confused: Me personally, i just think we have done well, and to be in contention albeit a small chance of 2nd, and 3rd place by a point is fantastic :thumbsup:
imho As yogi has said, 3rd spot is his aim, and it looks to me that he's on target, a target we could never have imagined only 7 months ago. :top marks

Viva_Palmeiras
18-02-2010, 03:14 PM
Interesting points raised.

I think the frustration/reaction is in the realisation that we have some cracking players - but they are not for keeps. They will move on - its a bloody tantilising (sp?) prospect to think what might happen if this team is allowed to mature. Therefore perhaps greater eagerness to see our remarkable charge result in something tangible.

We didn't really have our traditional slump and many will be hoping its not been merely delayed.

:notworthy:

HFC 0-7
18-02-2010, 03:26 PM
You say we are under performing, others say we are over performing, and have been lucky.:confused: Me personally, i just think we have done well, and to be in contention albeit a small chance of 2nd, and 3rd place by a point is fantastic :thumbsup:
imho As yogi has said, 3rd spot is his aim, and it looks to me that he's on target, a target we could never have imagined only 7 months ago. :top marks

I get what you are saying and i think yogi and the team have done a great job so far. The problem is that everyones expectations at the start of the season were probably to make the top 6, however, expectations change through the season and even yogi has amended his expectations. Last nights reaction, IMO, by many is not over the top. judging by the way Yogi has been talking I dont think he would say anyone reaction is over the top. The thing is, hibs recently have been poor, and even yogi has said this. Even under Mixu, I think if we got beat 5 - 1 by the team that had just been promoted and got a player and manager sent off in the same game, the reaction would be pretty similar. Last night was a shocker and I think to brush it under the carpet by saying that its not that bad because we are in 3rd and have done better than expected is a bit of a cop out. Expectations need to remain high to push players on, and I think players have higher expectations of themselves recently and perhaps have thought all they need to do against the wee teams is show up. Right now, hibs are a victim of their own success. IMO of course

PC Stamp
18-02-2010, 04:17 PM
Thing here is Gary, you were in the recent past someone who IMHO over reacted to poor results and performances when we had a team that was probably performing at a level akin to the sum of it's parts. You arguably expected that team to over achieve and were pretty negative that they didn't or weren't. Yet now you've turned 360 degrees and are saying that others are being negative for being critical of a very poor performance from a team that IS capable of much better than it showed last night (again when looking at the sum of it's parts).

The manager has said himself that we've been lucky at times this season. Maybe, but I do agree with you that you make your own luck.

Is the league poorer or are we better than we were in previous seasons and as a result we've overtaken other teams? I subscribe to the fact our club has been so well run it's enabled us to attract better quality players and as a result we have surpassed other teams. Nothing to do with the quality of the league. We are where we are because outwith the OF we have been the most consistent team in the SPL.

Don't forget though that in suggesting that others have been over critical of last night's performance, that in days not long gone by you yourself were the complete opposite of what you appear to be now. You are in fact almost the shining example of doom & gloomer to happy clapper in one easy step! :wink:

HFC 0-7
18-02-2010, 04:18 PM
Thing here is Gary, you were in the recent past someone who IMHO over reacted to poor results and performances when we had a team that was probably performing at a level akin to the sum of it's parts. You arguably expected that team to over achieve and were pretty negative that they didn't or weren't. Yet now you've turned 360 degrees and are saying that others are being negative for being critical of a very poor performance from a team that IS capable of much better than it showed last night (again when looking at the sum of it's parts).

The manager has said himself that we've been lucky at times this season. Maybe, but I do agree with you that you make your own luck.

Is the league poorer or are we better than we were in previous seasons and as a result we've overtaken other teams? I subscribe to the fact our club has been so well run it's enabled us to attract better quality players and as a result we have surpassed other teams. Nothing to do with the quality of the league. We are where we are because outwith the OF we have been the most consistent team in the SPL.

Don't forget though that in suggesting that others have been over critical of last night's performance, that in days not long gone by you yourself were the complete opposite of what you appear to be now. You are in fact almost the shining example of doom & gloomer to happy clapper in one easy step! :wink:

Do you mean 180? (Sorry, couldnt resist!)

erskine-hibby
18-02-2010, 04:20 PM
Thing here is Gary, you were in the recent past someone who IMHO over reacted to poor results and performances when we had a team that was probably performing at a level akin to the sum of it's parts. You arguably expected that team to over achieve and were pretty negative that they didn't or weren't. Yet now you've turned 360 degrees and are saying that others are being negative for being critical of a very poor performance from a team that IS capable of much better than it showed last night (again when looking at the sum of it's parts).

The manager has said himself that we've been lucky at times this season. Maybe, but I do agree with you that you make your own luck.

Is the league poorer or are we better than we were in previous seasons and as a result we've overtaken other teams? I subscribe to the fact our club has been so well run it's enabled us to attract better quality players and as a result we have surpassed other teams. Nothing to do with the quality of the league. We are where we are because outwith the OF we have been the most consistent team in the SPL.

Don't forget though that in suggesting that others have been over critical of last night's performance, that in days not long gone by you yourself were the complete opposite of what you appear to be now. You are in fact almost the shining example of doom & gloomer to happy clapper in one easy step! :wink:

The very same thing crossed my mind on going to pick my wee one up from school:agree:

PC Stamp
18-02-2010, 04:24 PM
Do you mean 180? (Sorry, couldnt resist!)

:greengrin ..... Yes and no. I should have said he's gone "full circle" from ultimate D&G to ultimate HC in Olympic record time :tee hee:

BH could see no good in Mixu's team even when there were positives. Anyone who tried to point out such positives were labelled as being a happy clapper (a term he may have invented) who was too ready to accept under achievement or mediocrity. Yet now it seems he can see no flaws in the present team despite the manager himself telling us there are still many and anyone who criticises is seemingly over reacting or knee jerking.

matty_f
18-02-2010, 04:27 PM
While we dont expect to be beaten 5-1 at St Johnstone, i cant help feeling the over reaction to every bad result, or players mistakes are due to how well we actually have been doing, and expectations have risen since last year.

I have heard we have been lucky, the leagues sheight, all manner of reasons why we are 3rd, apart from doing better than the rest. :confused: We can only beat who are put in front of us, we cant be the only team who are getting luck, what happened to you make your own luck, and it evens itself out over the season?

People have to remember, we are only 8 months into the new mans tenure, and without going over the top, we are well ahead of what i expected this season. Perhaps i'm wrong, but surely nobody thought we'd be doing this well?:confused:

Agree with that, BH.:agree:

Last night's was a sore one, but we're not the only team to have taken a doing when few people saw it coming, and we'll not be the last either.

It was a bad night in an otherwise good season so far. I can live with that so long as the progress continues and we keep the undoubted overall improvement going.

blackpoolhibs
18-02-2010, 04:30 PM
Thing here is Gary, you were in the recent past someone who IMHO over reacted to poor results and performances when we had a team that was probably performing at a level akin to the sum of it's parts. You arguably expected that team to over achieve and were pretty negative that they didn't or weren't. Yet now you've turned 360 degrees and are saying that others are being negative for being critical of a very poor performance from a team that IS capable of much better than it showed last night (again when looking at the sum of it's parts).

The manager has said himself that we've been lucky at times this season. Maybe, but I do agree with you that you make your own luck.

Is the league poorer or are we better than we were in previous seasons and as a result we've overtaken other teams? I subscribe to the fact our club has been so well run it's enabled us to attract better quality players and as a result we have surpassed other teams. Nothing to do with the quality of the league. We are where we are because outwith the OF we have been the most consistent team in the SPL.

Don't forget though that in suggesting that others have been over critical of last night's performance, that in days not long gone by you yourself were the complete opposite of what you appear to be now. You are in fact almost the shining example of doom & gloomer to happy clapper in one easy step! :wink:

You wont be surprised to know i disagree. In the past in fact only last season we were under performing as a team, the manager hadn't a scooby, and we were turning in performances and results that were unacceptable for a club of our stature in the game. I have no problem with folk being upset over last night, or indeed any loss. What i find ridiculous is how its all being taken way out of context. We seem to be only one win away from a tragedy on here

When i was having a pop at the manager and his team last season, it was because we were setting out the team in a way it would never win many games, he was sacked for that, what i was saying must have been near the truth. Yes we had a bad result last night, but they have been down to a minimum since yogi took over, and i find the blind panic some are giving out today laughable.

PC Stamp
18-02-2010, 04:30 PM
Agree with that, BH.:agree:

Last night's was a sore one, but we're not the only team to have taken a doing when few people saw it coming, and we'll not be the last either.

It was a bad night in an otherwise good season so far. I can live with that so long as the progress continues and we keep the undoubted overall improvement going.

I agree with most of it it as well Matty. It's just the radical transformation in BH that I've got trouble understanding!

matty_f
18-02-2010, 04:33 PM
I agree with most of it it as well Matty. It's just the radical transformation in BH that I've got trouble understanding!

I'm going to stick my neck out here, Cliff, and say that over the time I've been posting on .net, BH turns out to be right about 99% of the time.

The only thing I think he got wrong was when the initial D&G v Happy Clappers thing kicked off with the club selling Brown, Thomson etc and not spending wads on the team. IIRC, BH was very much in the D&G camp at the time.

erskine-hibby
18-02-2010, 04:34 PM
You wont be surprised to know i disagree. In the past in fact only last season we were under performing as a team, the manager hadn't a scooby, and we were turning in performances and results that were unacceptable for a club of our stature in the game. I have no problem with folk being upset over last night, or indeed any loss. What i find ridiculous is how its all being taken way out of context. We seem to be only one win away from a tragedy on here

When i was having a pop at the manager and his team last season, it was because we were setting out the team in a way it would never win many games, he was sacked for that, what i was saying must have been near the truth. Yes we had a bad result last night, but they have been down to a minimum since yogi took over, and i find the blind panic some are giving out today laughable.

And last nights or Sundays team would???

PC Stamp
18-02-2010, 04:36 PM
You wont be surprised to know i disagree. In the past in fact only last season we were under performing as a team, the manager hadn't a scooby, and we were turning in performances and results that were unacceptable for a club of our stature in the game. I have no problem with folk being upset over last night, or indeed any lose. What i find ridiculous is how its all being taken way out of context. We seem to be only one win away from a tragedy on here

When i was having a pop at the manager and his team last season, it was because we were setting out the team in a way it would never win many games, he was sacked for that, what i was saying must have been near the truth. Yes we had a bad result last night, but they have been down to a minimum since yogi took over, and i find the blind panic some are giving out today laughable.

The manager then was a component in the sum of the parts of said team. He also didn't have players such as Miller, Stokes, McBride , Zemmama, Benji. Hence when put together the team achieved what it was capable of. Even the manager himself refused to put last night down to a bad day at the office for fear of the team and himself being he took the blame getting off lightly. To not expect criticism is being unrealistic. A 2-0 or 2-1 defeat might have been a bad day at the office and attracted a "one of those games" response from most. A 5-1 thrashing will get a little more attention when turned in by a team capable of so much better..

PC Stamp
18-02-2010, 04:38 PM
I'm going to stick my neck out here, Cliff, and say that over the time I've been posting on .net, BH turns out to be right about 99% of the time.

The only thing I think he got wrong was when the initial D&G v Happy Clappers thing kicked off with the club selling Brown, Thomson etc and not spending wads on the team. IIRC, BH was very much in the D&G camp at the time.

Which would at the time have been catastrophic and would likely never have given us the platform we now have to build on. That counts as much more than just 1% wrong IMHO.

hibsbollah
18-02-2010, 04:38 PM
The comments about being 'lucky' cropped up regularly during the mowbray era and during Collins 10 match unbeaten start as well. As soon as a blip comes the knives are out, and the manager goes from hero to zero:grr:

Same old story:yawn:

lEXO
18-02-2010, 04:39 PM
Agree with that, BH.:agree:

Last night's was a sore one, but we're not the only team to have taken a doing when few people saw it coming, and we'll not be the last either.

It was a bad night in an otherwise good season so far. I can live with that so long as the progress continues and we keep the undoubted overall improvement going.
Me to dude. We sometimes lose sight of the bigger picture after a defeat.Aye people have the right to moan after a defeat like last nights, but it,s about the next game now and how the team react.Would we rather be in the position of the yams or aberdeen?Out of the cup, and at best a top six place fight.Thats what we had last year.So progress is happening, and hopefully it will continue.

erskine-hibby
18-02-2010, 04:44 PM
Me to dude. We sometimes lose sight of the bigger picture after a defeat.Aye people have the right to moan after a defeat like last nights, but it,s about the next game now and how the team react.Would we rather be in the position of the yams or aberdeen?Out of the cup, and at best a top six place fight.Thats what we had last year.So progress is happening, and hopefully it will continue.

That is not in question.

HFC 0-7
18-02-2010, 04:45 PM
Me to dude. We sometimes lose sight of the bigger picture after a defeat.Aye people have the right to moan after a defeat like last nights, but it,s about the next game now and how the team react.Would we rather be in the position of the yams or aberdeen?Out of the cup, and at best a top six place fight.Thats what we had last year.So progress is happening, and hopefully it will continue.

People probably said the same thing after the Rangers match, I expected a big effort from hibs against St johnstone after the second half at ibrox but was severely let down. I think a lot of the reactions are based on the last few games where we have shipped 11 goals in 4 games rather than just last nights defeat. Remember this thread is about expectations, well Hibs have set our expectations high as up until about 4 games ago in the league we had only conceeded about 18 goals in 20 odd games.

matty_f
18-02-2010, 04:46 PM
Which would at the time have been catastrophic and would likely never have given us the platform we now have to build on. That counts as much more than just 1% wrong IMHO.

Aye, fair point.:agree: If only because it makes my correct % higher by default!:thumbsup:

lEXO
18-02-2010, 04:51 PM
That is not in question.
Glad to hear it.Just a wee reminder,as some might want to have a look back at the last couple of years.Progress takes time, and there will be bad days along the way.As it always has at Hibs

blackpoolhibs
18-02-2010, 04:54 PM
I'm going to stick my neck out here, Cliff, and say that over the time I've been posting on .net, BH turns out to be right about 99% of the time.

The only thing I think he got wrong was when the initial D&G v Happy Clappers thing kicked off with the club selling Brown, Thomson etc and not spending wads on the team. IIRC, BH was very much in the D&G camp at the time.

I dont want to get in the way of what you were saying matty, but i never said that. I did think we should have spent more than we did, i did think collins and to a lesser extent Mixu wasted a lot of money, but i never demanded the club spend wads of cash on new players. What i find funny is how i was told to be patient when we were pish, now we are doing so much better, suddenly we are pish again.:devil:

erskine-hibby
18-02-2010, 05:06 PM
I dont want to get in the way of what you were saying matty, but i never said that. I did think we should have spent more than we did, i did think collins and to a lesser extent Mixu wasted a lot of money, but i never demanded the club spend wads of cash on new players. What i find funny is how i was told to be patient when we were pish, now we are doing so much better, suddenly we are pish again.:devil:

I will back you on that one BH as i was in the same camp.

matty_f
18-02-2010, 05:07 PM
I dont want to get in the way of what you were saying matty, but i never said that. I did think we should have spent more than we did, i did think collins and to a lesser extent Mixu wasted a lot of money, but i never demanded the club spend wads of cash on new players. What i find funny is how i was told to be patient when we were pish, now we are doing so much better, suddenly we are pish again.:devil:

Fair enough, G.:thumbsup:

edit:
I think 'wads' was the wrong word, btw - I was exaggerating.

lEXO
18-02-2010, 05:09 PM
People probably said the same thing after the Rangers match, I expected a big effort from hibs against St johnstone after the second half at ibrox but was severely let down. I think a lot of the reactions are based on the last few games where we have shipped 11 goals in 4 games rather than just last nights defeat. Remember this thread is about expectations, well Hibs have set our expectations high as up until about 4 games ago in the league we had only conceeded about 18 goals in 20 odd games.
Well saturday will tell then.If the reaction is,nt there we do have problems.But my expectations when we were unbeaten in 12, werent sky high.My thinking was it would help when we have a poor run to have plenty points on the board.I expect us to bounce back.Some peoples expectations are higher than others,i can,t do anything about that.I can however be realistic and temper my own expectations with the progress we are making.

blackpoolhibs
18-02-2010, 05:24 PM
Well saturday will tell then.If the reaction is,nt there we do have problems.But my expectations when we were unbeaten in 12, werent sky high.My thinking was it would help when we have a poor run to have plenty points on the board.I expect us to bounce back.Some peoples expectations are higher than others,i can,t do anything about that.I can however be realistic and temper my own expectations with the progress we are making.

:agree: You would have to be rather stupid, if you thought we would not have a sticky spell this season.

HFC 0-7
18-02-2010, 05:38 PM
Well saturday will tell then.If the reaction is,nt there we do have problems.But my expectations when we were unbeaten in 12, werent sky high.My thinking was it would help when we have a poor run to have plenty points on the board.I expect us to bounce back.Some peoples expectations are higher than others,i can,t do anything about that.I can however be realistic and temper my own expectations with the progress we are making.

I too was waiting for the dip in form, however, the manner of the defeat last night is what has done it for me. We got beat all over the pitch last night and with Nish and Yogi getting sent off just rounded off a truely bad performance. Expectations would have needed to have been very very low to not react angrily to yesterdays performance. Saturday is a big game for us, and for me, its not whether we play good football or not, its whether the players show a bit of passion and drive.

lEXO
18-02-2010, 05:47 PM
I too was waiting for the dip in form, however, the manner of the defeat last night is what has done it for me. We got beat all over the pitch last night and with Nish and Yogi getting sent off just rounded off a truely bad performance. Expectations would have needed to have been very very low to not react angrily to yesterdays performance. Saturday is a big game for us, and for me, its not whether we play good football or not, its whether the players show a bit of passion and drive.
I never said at any point that people should,nt be angry with last nights performance.But as you said the thread is about expectations, and mine arent as sky high as some.Results like last night hurt,but i remember the threads after the Hamilton and Dundee Utd games.The reaction after these games from the team gives me faith in the team to bounce back.The progress we have made should not be ignored either.Still 3rd in the league, and quarters of the cup.How many expected that after last year?
Not a lot i would guess.

HFC 0-7
18-02-2010, 06:35 PM
I never said at any point that people should,nt be angry with last nights performance.But as you said the thread is about expectations, and mine arent as sky high as some.Results like last night hurt,but i remember the threads after the Hamilton and Dundee Utd games.The reaction after these games from the team gives me faith in the team to bounce back.The progress we have made should not be ignored either.Still 3rd in the league, and quarters of the cup.How many expected that after last year?
Not a lot i would guess.

I am talking about expectations at last nights game alone as well, surely last night didnt meet your expectations of result or performance from manager or players? This is what I dont understand, people say that our expectations are too high, but surely they are not too high if you expect Hibs not to get pumped 5 - 1 off 9th place in the table when we are sitting 3rd about 19 points clear of them. Yes I expected hibs to get beat along the way against teams like St johnstone but not in that manner. If St johnstone got beat 5 - 1 off of hibs last night they would be just as angry as us. Last night was one of the worst performances I have seen from Hibs.

lEXO
18-02-2010, 07:07 PM
I am talking about expectations at last nights game alone as well, surely last night didnt meet your expectations of result or performance from manager or players? This is what I dont understand, people say that our expectations are too high, but surely they are not too high if you expect Hibs not to get pumped 5 - 1 off 9th place in the table when we are sitting 3rd about 19 points clear of them. Yes I expected hibs to get beat along the way against teams like St johnstone but not in that manner. If St johnstone got beat 5 - 1 off of hibs last night they would be just as angry as us. Last night was one of the worst performances I have seen from Hibs.
Ok, you are obviously still angry about last night.I,m sorry but i never said that last night met my expectations did i?I might not be as angry as you are, but a defeat hurts us all.We have no god given right to beat any team,and yes maybe our players thought that last night.I very much doubt that it will happen again in a hurry,but cant say i can say the same about the over-optimism of a section of our support.We are not as good as some would have us think,or as bad either.Having seen us knocked out the cup at Methil,hammered 7-0 at Ibrox,6-2 at killie,5-1 at swinie etc, i have seen my fair share of doings.Of course they hurt, but i see more progress in this team than i did in any of the others.So your expectations might be higher than mine,but i,m realistic enough to know it happens.

HFC 0-7
18-02-2010, 07:31 PM
Ok, you are obviously still angry about last night.I,m sorry but i never said that last night met my expectations did i?I might not be as angry as you are, but a defeat hurts us all.We have no god given right to beat any team,and yes maybe our players thought that last night.I very much doubt that it will happen again in a hurry,but cant say i can say the same about the over-optimism of a section of our support.We are not as good as some would have us think,or as bad either.Having seen us knocked out the cup at Methil,hammered 7-0 at Ibrox,6-2 at killie,5-1 at swinie etc, i have seen my fair share of doings.Of course they hurt, but i see more progress in this team than i did in any of the others.So your expectations might be higher than mine,but i,m realistic enough to know it happens.

The OP is on about the expectations as of now and the reaction to last nights game. he is right in that no one would have expected we would be here right now, however, the team has set expectations and the manager has backed this up through the press and all that is happening here is the fans sharing the expectations of the team and manager. The OP is talking about remembering that we are only 8 months into a new managers tenure, but even that manager has set his expectations and according to him we are not playing well. Yes we have been bad in recent seasons and yes we are prone to fading in the second half of the season, however, this I dont think this is something we should expect or accept. The fans are the driving force at the football clubs, without fans, clubs would cease to exist as we know it. we should be the ones setting expectations, if Rod got a whiff that we expected to fade in the latter half of every season and that we would continue putting money into the club what would make him want to loosen the purse strings. If the fans have reasonable high expectations that are not met the club will be forced to act by putting money in etc, this is why Hibs fans should have high expectations, especially now when the old firm are not as strong and we, financially, are. This is the time where the fans should be making it clear we want more, we want to compete every week and we want to win things.

Captain Trips
18-02-2010, 07:32 PM
My expectations are built on what has gone before and my judgements on players, my expectations change a lot watching football they are not known at start of season, they are hope which then turns to expectations.

Very easy to come on here and slate a player whom I dont rate, that player being Rankin, I do not rate him at all really and last night did nothing to change that or cement my thoughts further. This is not about that this is about players who you think are capable, letting you down thats whats unacceptable, Rankin is no more at fault than any other player, im not going to slate him he as I said played his part along with most of the others. Im sure there are folk who dont rate Hogg etc etc.

My expectations are of a team thats in the main pretty good, yeah we cant like all 11 starters all the time but in general its a good side, for it to lose 5-1 to St johnstone is not in my expectations at all it wasnt even close.

lEXO
18-02-2010, 09:41 PM
The OP is on about the expectations as of now and the reaction to last nights game. he is right in that no one would have expected we would be here right now, however, the team has set expectations and the manager has backed this up through the press and all that is happening here is the fans sharing the expectations of the team and manager. The OP is talking about remembering that we are only 8 months into a new managers tenure, but even that manager has set his expectations and according to him we are not playing well. Yes we have been bad in recent seasons and yes we are prone to fading in the second half of the season, however, this I dont think this is something we should expect or accept. The fans are the driving force at the football clubs, without fans, clubs would cease to exist as we know it. we should be the ones setting expectations, if Rod got a whiff that we expected to fade in the latter half of every season and that we would continue putting money into the club what would make him want to loosen the purse strings. If the fans have reasonable high expectations that are not met the club will be forced to act by putting money in etc, this is why Hibs fans should have high expectations, especially now when the old firm are not as strong and we, financially, are. This is the time where the fans should be making it clear we want more, we want to compete every week and we want to win things.
This is why people rant every week about their own expectations.We havent shot our bolt for the season yet, we have plenty to play for.What started as passionate posts, now appears to be turning into a rant.We are perfectly aware that football fans are the driving force at a club.But if you think that the board are going to put money they dont have, into the team because we moan that it does,nt meet "our" expectations, you are wrong.
Moan about the team being rubbish last night, you will be well right on that, but please dont tell me what my expectations should be.I want us to compete every week, i want and have seen us win things, and i am sure we will again soon.What i wont do is overlook the fact that we are building a team at the moment.As for the OF not being as strong and we financialy are, they always have and always will afford to pay a lot more in wages than us.The yams tried that route and it done them a lot of good eh! I,m over last night,and ready for saturday.I expect us to win.

HFC 0-7
18-02-2010, 10:04 PM
This is why people rant every week about their own expectations.We havent shot our bolt for the season yet, we have plenty to play for.What started as passionate posts, now appears to be turning into a rant.We are perfectly aware that football fans are the driving force at a club.But if you think that the board are going to put money they dont have, into the team because we moan that it does,nt meet "our" expectations, you are wrong.
Moan about the team being rubbish last night, you will be well right on that, but please dont tell me what my expectations should be.I want us to compete every week, i want and have seen us win things, and i am sure we will again soon.What i wont do is overlook the fact that we are building a team at the moment.As for the OF not being as strong and we financialy are, they always have and always will afford to pay a lot more in wages than us.The yams tried that route and it done them a lot of good eh! I,m over last night,and ready for saturday.I expect us to win.

I wasnt having a pop at you personally here, so I am sorry if it seemed that way. I wasnt talking about spending money we dont have either. th point I was trying to make was if the team were not in danger of going down, and the fans were happy with mid table all the time, Rod wouldnt put his hand in his pocket. We finished mid table last time with Mixu which we have done other seasons and new managers havent been given much money. This time was different, Rod seen the fans reducing and when Yogi has come in he has made funds available ( I am not talking about transfer fees I am talking about wages) to make sure the fans come back. We have seen how the fans expectations make the board think, and what I am getting at is that the fans rightly should have high expectations as this will be seen by the board, and where they will not spend millions, they will keep the purse open on a budget.

Rasta_Hibs
18-02-2010, 10:14 PM
I would say both to be honest. i think we have had a lot of luck this season but at the same time I think we are a much better team than last season. In terms of expectations, defeat last night is not what has annoyed fans so much, its the way we were defeated. Beaten everywhere all over the park and the players seemed very un interested in it all. fans expect decent performances, last night I think was the worst in a long time, but recent performances (first half of rangers excluded) have been well below par. even against Montrose and Irvine Meadow I thought we have been poor. Most of the season it has been bad or average performances peppered with good ones, when it should be the other way round.

Do you think it takes just 8 months into Yogis time here that we should be showing that level of performance consistantly? Surely that is what Yogi is working towards and has not yet acheived?

I didnt think we would be sitting third at the moement its more than i expected. I also do not think this is the peak of Yogi's time at Hibs and we are working towards better performances.

So do we have to be so critical at this stage?

HFC 0-7
18-02-2010, 10:32 PM
Do you think it takes just 8 months into Yogis time here that we should be showing that level of performance consistantly? Surely that is what Yogi is working towards and has not yet acheived?

I didnt think we would be sitting third at the moement its more than i expected. I also do not think this is the peak of Yogi's time at Hibs and we are working towards better performances.

So do we have to be so critical at this stage?

Yes!

Expectations change, if our expectations were the same as at the start of the season I would say that Hibs have exceeded, however, hibs have shown how they can perform, so they and the managers own words have set our expectations. recent performances and strange team tactics are questionable and this is why currently hibs are below expectations. If someone said that hibs would play the first 21 league games and conceed only 18 goals and score 34, would you expect the same team in the next 4 games to conceed 11 and score 4?

blackpoolhibs
18-02-2010, 10:55 PM
Yes!

Expectations change, if our expectations were the same as at the start of the season I would say that Hibs have exceeded, however, hibs have shown how they can perform, so they and the managers own words have set our expectations. recent performances and strange team tactics are questionable and this is why currently hibs are below expectations. If someone said that hibs would play the first 21 league games and conceed only 18 goals and score 34, would you expect the same team in the next 4 games to conceed 11 and score 4?

I'd say i would not expect anything. Football is not an exact science, you have to allow for all sorts of things, loss of form, injuries, other teams playing well and the likes. I know one thing though, i never expected us to be doing so well this season.

Rasta_Hibs
18-02-2010, 11:11 PM
Yes!

Expectations change, if our expectations were the same as at the start of the season I would say that Hibs have exceeded, however, hibs have shown how they can perform, so they and the managers own words have set our expectations. recent performances and strange team tactics are questionable and this is why currently hibs are below expectations. If someone said that hibs would play the first 21 league games and conceed only 18 goals and score 34, would you expect the same team in the next 4 games to conceed 11 and score 4?

Yes. Ok well maybe not expect it but my point is that i understand that results like this may happen along the way as yogi continues his work towards consistantly high levels of performance from his team.

Gerard
18-02-2010, 11:29 PM
I too hoped for improvement, but never expected as much as we have got. I think we have 4 maybe even 5 players who are not quite up to the job, although they have been doing well as a team. We never have been world beaters, but are nowhere near as bad as some people are making out. As you say, we are building a team, we need to remember that sometimes.

:top marks
G

HFC 0-7
21-02-2010, 06:14 PM
So what does everyone thing about fans expectations now? People were talking about how the team would react after the rangers game, and the reaction was getting gubbed by St johnstone and having a player and manager sent off. The talk then shifted to the reaction of the team after the St Johnstone game and we end up getting beat and having a man sent off. Hibs exceeded the expectations I had at the start of the season, however expectations change through the season and now hibs arent meeting expectations. IMO the reason for this is that the squad isnt as great as people think and perhaps Yogi, being still fairly new to management is having to deal with a different pressure on himself and the team because of how well we have done previously. I was gutted with the result yesterday and the St johnstone one, and IMO if we dont win against St johnstone at home I think Yogi will have his hands full trying to raise players confidence.

blackpoolhibs
21-02-2010, 06:22 PM
Well the team are having a season way better than i expected, that's fine by me.:thumbsup:

BEEJ
21-02-2010, 06:32 PM
I'd say i would not expect anything. Football is not an exact science, you have to allow for all sorts of things, loss of form, injuries, other teams playing well and the likes.
But you are 'expecting' us to win against St Johnstone next week?

blackpoolhibs
21-02-2010, 11:53 PM
But you are 'expecting' us to win against St Johnstone next week?

I hope we do, but don't expect anything except progress under the new manager.

HFC 0-7
22-02-2010, 08:14 AM
I hope we do, but don't expect anything except progress under the new manager.

Fair enough, my expectations at the begining of the season was progress as well, but after the purchases made and the first half of the season most people raised their expectations, I certainly did. I do think that your expectations are quite low as we have the team to get performances better than we have shown in recent weeks. I would say that the performances of late have been more like that of under Mixu, and even although I think Yogi is the right man for the job, he is showing inexperience with team selection and tactics lately.

jacomo
22-02-2010, 10:26 AM
While we dont expect to be beaten 5-1 at St Johnstone, i cant help feeling the over reaction to every bad result, or players mistakes are due to how well we actually have been doing, and expectations have risen since last year.

I have heard we have been lucky, the leagues sheight, all manner of reasons why we are 3rd, apart from doing better than the rest. :confused: We can only beat who are put in front of us, we cant be the only team who are getting luck, what happened to you make your own luck, and it evens itself out over the season?

People have to remember, we are only 8 months into the new mans tenure, and without going over the top, we are well ahead of what i expected this season. Perhaps i'm wrong, but surely nobody thought we'd be doing this well?:confused:

Sorry, but your post is nonsense.

Firstly, losing 5-1 to anybody is terrible. I wasn't at St Johnstone, but I wouldn't blame anyone who was to still be venting their spleen about it a month from now.

Secondly, the season has gone well, but we are not "well ahead" of where I expected. I expected that Hughes would see Hibs pushing for Europe and competing in the latter stages of the Cups - which we are.

You yourself have endlessly said that you expect Hibs to compete for 3rd every season. So how are we "well ahead" of where you expect us to be? :confused:

Joe Baker II
22-02-2010, 10:51 AM
You wont be surprised to know i disagree. In the past in fact only last season we were under performing as a team, the manager hadn't a scooby, and we were turning in performances and results that were unacceptable for a club of our stature in the game. I have no problem with folk being upset over last night, or indeed any loss. What i find ridiculous is how its all being taken way out of context. We seem to be only one win away from a tragedy on here

When i was having a pop at the manager and his team last season, it was because we were setting out the team in a way it would never win many games, he was sacked for that, what i was saying must have been near the truth. Yes we had a bad result last night, but they have been down to a minimum since yogi took over, and i find the blind panic some are giving out today laughable.

I agree entirely and recall your posts in Paatelanien year and a half at ER which I was in agreement with too. There were mitigations for Mixu - came in at a bad time after Collins was not backed by Board, and he is obviously a good guy - but he was never going to be a success.

Difference is we have BOTH a good manager now (mistake with Gow at Ibrox one-off I hope) and importantly ALSO one who seems to have influence and standing to attract players of the calibre we should always be demanding.

Have to remember in assessing improvement made by Hughes we would have been much worse last season had Murray and Riordan not returned and these signings were nothing do to with the manager.

HFC 0-7
27-02-2010, 08:43 PM
Whats everyones expectations after todays performance then? IMO that has been the worst performance at ER this season! We have been waiting for a performance for a few games now and its never came, shocking way to give a send off to the east.

5 points from the last 6 games! W1, D2, L3 Goals for: 6, Goals Against: 13

We are third bottom of the current form league (Last 6 games).

Love the Green
27-02-2010, 09:57 PM
While we dont expect to be beaten 5-1 at St Johnstone, i cant help feeling the over reaction to every bad result, or players mistakes are due to how well we actually have been doing, and expectations have risen since last year.

I have heard we have been lucky, the leagues sheight, all manner of reasons why we are 3rd, apart from doing better than the rest. :confused: We can only beat who are put in front of us, we cant be the only team who are getting luck, what happened to you make your own luck, and it evens itself out over the season?

People have to remember, we are only 8 months into the new mans tenure, and without going over the top, we are well ahead of what i expected this season. Perhaps i'm wrong, but surely nobody thought we'd


be doing this well?:confused:


BLACKPOOL STOP IT!!!!!
After every game you are on here slagging people for having and opinion on the PATHETIC team and individual performances.....recently they have been miserable...

The only consistant plus I can see since Yogi arrived is in the goalkeeper stakes...add miller and spoony to taht and it is all we have improved this
season....
Bamba bombscare lid ielf all over the place with no height or strenghth add to that not a decent tackler in ant area..

As for the front 3 Billy Smart would die to have them in the big top..
pathetic lazy, slow ans skillless to mention just a few of their failings....keep hearing work in progress well frankly the way we are going the 3rd forth bridge will be finished and we will still be "work in progress"

"keep the faith":wink:

fatbloke
27-02-2010, 10:27 PM
BLACKPOOL STOP IT!!!!!
After every game you are on here slagging people for having and opinion on the PATHETIC team and individual performances.....recently they have been miserable...

The only consistant plus I can see since Yogi arrived is in the goalkeeper stakes...add miller and spoony to taht and it is all we have improved this
season....
Bamba bombscare lid ielf all over the place with no height or strenghth add to that not a decent tackler in ant area..

As for the front 3 Billy Smart would die to have them in the big top..
pathetic lazy, slow ans skillless to mention just a few of their failings....keep hearing work in progress well frankly the way we are going the 3rd forth bridge will be finished and we will still be "work in progress"

100% agree with your post. I am now into my 50th year of watching Hibs and quite frankly performances this season rank with some of the worst ever (IMO). Yes results are good more often than not but that is papering over the cracks. I reckon we have only really played in about 8-10 games since winning the CIS cup. In many others we have got a result and if we are honest we should be asking how we managed it.

No doubt I will get crucified for this but FFS I expect Hibs to win every game no matter what the opposition. I certainly expect to finish way ahead of St J, Murderwell etc given our crowds, resources etc. We have played St J 4 times this season and all 4 times they have played us off the park - even in the 3-0 game! Mr Hughes is rapidly losing the goodwill of many - given the abuse etc dished out regularly where I sit in the FF upper.

As I have said already in other posts if we had played at all this season we would have been ahead of the Smellies and right up the ar5e if not in front of the Unwashed from Govan. It is not coincidence that despite signing better players than in previous years our crowds are still poor. Many more weeks like the past couple and instead of raising the capacity of one stand a better idea may have been to reduce the capacity of the other 3.

However I live in eternal hope - or is it blind faith - that we might still finish second - not looking good - or we may well win the Scottish Cup this year a feat which I reckon we could quite easily pull off.

Moan over I am going to watch Match of the Day the go to bed and dream of the day to end all days at Hampden in May.

Born a Hibby
Live a Hibby
Die a Hibby

Forever GGTTH.
"keep the faith"