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View Full Version : NHC Wolves fined over team selection



HibeeUnderwood
18-02-2010, 11:01 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/w/wolverhampton_wanderers/8521603.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/w/wolverhampton_wanderers/8521603.stm)

Has the footballing world gone mad! :confused:

Hibercelona
18-02-2010, 11:05 AM
Apparently you have to play the strongest side you can play in a game.

Stupid rule if you ask me.

Surely the manager will know the strongest team to field in certain games better than the football associations. :confused:

Peevemor
18-02-2010, 11:08 AM
[/URL][url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/w/wolverhampton_wanderers/8521603.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/w/wolverhampton_wanderers/8521603.stm)

Has the footballing world gone mad! :confused:

I see that the fine is "suspended", which I assume means they will pay it only if they do the same thing again.

However should Wolves appeal, and despite the obvious reason for what McCarthy did, the League officials will have to prove that they are better placed to pick the team than the manager who works with the players every day. That won't be easy.

TonyStokeprano
18-02-2010, 11:09 AM
Maybe the F.A should start picking the startin 11 for each game. idiots.

CropleyWasGod
18-02-2010, 11:18 AM
Will the SFA fine Yogi for last night?

HibeeUnderwood
18-02-2010, 12:08 PM
Will the SFA fine Yogi for last night?

Probably :grr:

Ell_Chrisso
18-02-2010, 12:35 PM
Another aspect you can also look at tho, is it's almost Match fixing.

And il expect some bookies took a right good hammering from people with plenty money to lump on Man U, at v short odds.

So in that aspect, im not suprised the fine is there. As im sure some bookmakers weren't too happy.

But at the same time, McCarthy should maybe have made this publicly clear a few days before, or even a few weeks. Then his own fans might not have even wasted the money they did to travel and go to the game in the first place.

IWasThere2016
18-02-2010, 12:39 PM
They've made a rod for their own back .. will they fine ALL others for weakened teams from now on?

CropleyWasGod
18-02-2010, 12:40 PM
They've made a rod for their own back .. will they fine ALL others for weakened teams from now on?

iirc, this used to be quite common in the 70's and 80's.

Green_one
18-02-2010, 12:53 PM
What will happen is that no-one ever says anything directly about it again.

So if you are going to play a weakened team stay quiet and perhaps alude to injuries or tactical changes.

I have got to believe this is one law for the small teams and another for the big boys. Man United often do not play their 'best team' and although it is impossible to prove with them they often state they are resting someone for a bigger game. They (and the likes of Chelsea etc) do usually win in any case (e.g. the League Cup final against Spurs) but their FA cup semi team was below strength and they lost.

Many teams in the League cup could be fined for playing understrength but its a great forum for the younger players to state a claim. OK, in cups you are only damaging yourself but if Chelsea were playing a team in the relegation zone prior to a Euro final say, would they play their best team - no

MWHIBBIES
18-02-2010, 12:59 PM
This is a joke imo. They are fineing a manager for picking a team witch is within his right(unless its the hearts manager).

Phil MaGlass
18-02-2010, 02:42 PM
IMO its ripping the fans off,hard earned cash for tix and ST,s,I can see the point of it,but I would not be a happy chappy if Hibs done it,mind you after laast nite I wouldnae be surprised if Yogi is investigated:greengrin

J-C
18-02-2010, 02:50 PM
Apparently you have to play the strongest side you can play in a game.

Stupid rule if you ask me.

Surely the manager will know the strongest team to field in certain games better than the football associations. :confused:


Football at this level needs a biggish squad to rotate and keep players fresh because of the amount of games being played. Surely it's not Wolves fault that the rest of the squad aren't in the same league as say Man U, Arsenal, chelsea etc.

boomtownhibby
18-02-2010, 04:24 PM
this is disgraceful in my opinion, if this is the ruling surley the vast majority of teams are guilty of fielding 'weakened' teams on occassions. And surely a manager has the right to play whatever team he wishes. Wolves are more likely to take points of teams around them and would prefer a stronger eleven in theses games. on top of all this isn't a strongest eleven a matter of opinion ?

green.and.white
18-02-2010, 05:09 PM
It must be quite demotivating for the fringe players in the team then if the FA see them as 'weaker' players compared to the first team, seems quite disrespectful from the FA and they are pretty much saying that when Wolves make changes to their team they are pash :greengrin

ballengeich
18-02-2010, 11:04 PM
It's important for the integrity of competitions that teams field their best players. Severe punishments should be available.

What would you consider an appropriate punishment in the hypothetical situation that a side omitted its best defender because he wanted to leave at the end of the season when his contract expires?

blackpoolhibs
18-02-2010, 11:58 PM
I bet they wouldn't fine chelsea or arsenal or man united for doing this.

Speedy
19-02-2010, 12:20 AM
What will happen is that no-one ever says anything directly about it again.

So if you are going to play a weakened team stay quiet and perhaps alude to injuries or tactical changes.

I have got to believe this is one law for the small teams and another for the big boys. Man United often do not play their 'best team' and although it is impossible to prove with them they often state they are resting someone for a bigger game. They (and the likes of Chelsea etc) do usually win in any case (e.g. the League Cup final against Spurs) but their FA cup semi team was below strength and they lost.

Many teams in the League cup could be fined for playing understrength but its a great forum for the younger players to state a claim. OK, in cups you are only damaging yourself but if Chelsea were playing a team in the relegation zone prior to a Euro final say, would they play their best team - no

The link says it was a premier league fine not an FA fine. Not sure if there is a similar FA rule though.

number 27
19-02-2010, 08:55 AM
I think this is fair enough. there needs to be some integrity to the competition with all teams facing the same opposition.

How would we feel if, on the final day of the season, Hearts sent an u-19 team to Tannadice and we ended up missing a euro place on goal difference :dunno:

Danderhall Hibs
19-02-2010, 08:58 AM
When was the last time Man U or Chelsea changed all 10 outfield players for a game? McCarthy then went on to say something like "well we can't win anyway so I may as well rest my 1st team for the big game against Hull at the weekend" I wouldn't imagine actually admitting that he's not going to try and win a game will help his case!

Peevemor
19-02-2010, 09:15 AM
I think this is fair enough. there needs to be some integrity to the competition with all teams facing the same opposition.

How would we feel if, on the final day of the season, Hearts sent an u-19 team to Tannadice and we ended up missing a euro place on goal difference :dunno:

At the end of every season most teams who have 'meaningless' (for them) matches use the opportunity to give a few youngsters a run out. Should they be fined for doing so?

number 27
19-02-2010, 09:23 AM
At the end of every season most teams who have 'meaningless' (for them) matches use the opportunity to give a few youngsters a run out. Should they be fined for doing so?


In most cases though, they do this in games where the result as a whole is fairly meaningless. Most teams will still play a strong team in a game where the opposition are in the middle of a title or relegation battle.

Peevemor
19-02-2010, 09:28 AM
In most cases though, they do this in games where the result as a whole is fairly meaningless. Most teams will still play a strong team in a game where the opposition are in the middle of a title or relegation battle.

I'm not sure that's the case.

number 27
19-02-2010, 09:38 AM
I'm not sure that's the case.


In my opinion it generally is, but if we accept what you say then I will answer your original question by saying that if a team is playing against opponents whose title, relegation or euro hopes are directly influenced by the result, then if they pick a team full of untried youngsters they should risk a fine.

eezyrider
19-02-2010, 11:21 AM
When Arsenal etc put out weakened sides the team they put out is still one capable of winning the match. In this respect the 'Strongest Team' is taken to mean the 'strongest team needed to win the match'.

What McCarthy did was tantamount to throwing the game - and it was compounded when he admitted as much to the press. He got let off lightly in my opinion.

EZ

Andy74
19-02-2010, 12:33 PM
It's a dangerous one, players would have every right to complain that the FA are effectively saying they are not first team material.

Teams have a squad and it should be up to the manager to play the players from that squad that he sees fit.

Maybe the difference is the manager should just stay quiet or just simply say that he's the manager and will pick the team as he sees it.

Franck is God
19-02-2010, 12:53 PM
there was a lot made of it at the time but any manager should have the ability to pick any team he wants for any game.

United played a mixture of a youth/reserve side away against Hull on the last day of last season because the Champions League final was the following Wednesday, they actuall won on the day but surely that shouldn't negate any fine as it would still have been perceived as a weakened side in what could have been a very important game.

Football associations are within their rights to hand out fines for this sort of thing but they can't wait for the result to do it or they should fine every team every time they lose because clearly they are fielding a weakened side.

blackpoolhibs
19-02-2010, 01:19 PM
In most cases though, they do this in games where the result as a whole is fairly meaningless. Most teams will still play a strong team in a game where the opposition are in the middle of a title or relegation battle.

Man United fielded 10 changes in the last game of the season against Hull, just before the Champions league final. Hull were in a relegation battle of their own, and needed to match or better Newcastles result to stay up. I dont remember Man United being fined? :confused:

bawheid
19-02-2010, 01:25 PM
In most cases though, they do this in games where the result as a whole is fairly meaningless. Most teams will still play a strong team in a game where the opposition are in the middle of a title or relegation battle.


I'm not sure that's the case.

My memory may be playing tricks on me but did the Yams not send out a pretty inexperienced team for the last game of their season at Pittodrie a few years ago? Aberdeen needed to win big and hope Hibs lost heavily against Rangers at Easter Road to get into Europe.

If not the Merricks were certainly hoping they would.

Danderhall Hibs
19-02-2010, 01:27 PM
I dont remember Man United being fined? :confused:

Didn't they win that match? Kind of proves that the team fielded were a capable EPL team doesn't it?

blackpoolhibs
19-02-2010, 01:28 PM
Didn't they win that match? Kind of proves that the team fielded were a capable EPL team doesn't it?

Yes they won it 1-0, but they never fielded their strongest team available. I thought that was why Wolves were fined?:confused:

Edit
It was, this is the rule.

The League's E20 rule stipulates that clubs must field a full-strength side in all top-flight games

heretoday
19-02-2010, 01:31 PM
They're just trying to protect the "brand" that is called Premiership Football.

blackpoolhibs
19-02-2010, 01:33 PM
They're just trying to protect the "brand" that is called Premiership Football.

Yip, and thats why i dont think they will allow Portsmouth to go under this season. If it happens once they are relegated, they wont give a toss.

Andy74
19-02-2010, 02:32 PM
Yes they won it 1-0, but they never fielded their strongest team available. I thought that was why Wolves were fined?:confused:

Edit
It was, this is the rule.

The League's E20 rule stipulates that clubs must field a full-strength side in all top-flight games

So, if not the manager, who decides what a full strength side is? Do the FA rank players in the squad, know what the manager is trying to do tactics wise?

If say Man U rest Rooney for one week whe he is actually fit and play Owen instead that is not a full strength side - would that bring about a fine? What's the cut off?

Danderhall Hibs
19-02-2010, 02:33 PM
Yes they won it 1-0, but they never fielded their strongest team available. I thought that was why Wolves were fined?:confused:

Edit
It was, this is the rule.

The League's E20 rule stipulates that clubs must field a full-strength side in all top-flight games

Well that's the end of squad rotation then! Back to the days of 14 man squads.

number 27
19-02-2010, 02:36 PM
My memory may be playing tricks on me but did the Yams not send out a pretty inexperienced team for the last game of their season at Pittodrie a few years ago? Aberdeen needed to win big and hope Hibs lost heavily against Rangers at Easter Road to get into Europe.

If not the Merricks were certainly hoping they would.


To be fair I dont think they did send out that weak a team that day.

I do remember JC putting out a really young team at Pittodrie which had Radio Scotland hacks fuming pre-match but the youngsters did well, If I recall correctly it finished 2-2 despite two Hibbies being sent off.

blackpoolhibs
19-02-2010, 02:36 PM
So, if not the manager, who decides what a full strength side is? Do the FA rank players in the squad, know what the manager is trying to do tactics wise?

If say Man U rest Rooney for one week whe he is actually fit and play Owen instead that is not a full strength side - would that bring about a fine? What's the cut off?

Yip i see what you are saying, what is the cut off line? It seems it must be different the better team you have? It does seem to me one rule for one, and one for another.

number 27
19-02-2010, 02:39 PM
Well that's the end of squad rotation then! Back to the days of 14 man squads.


Surely there is a difference between squad rotation and blatantly surrendering the 3 points though :dunno:

Danderhall Hibs
19-02-2010, 02:41 PM
Surely there is a difference between squad rotation and blatantly surrendering the 3 points though :dunno:

I think so but Blackpool's just posted the rule and it says teams must field their full-strength team.

blackpoolhibs
19-02-2010, 02:45 PM
I think so but Blackpool's just posted the rule and it says teams must field their full-strength team.

I posted the rule, but dont understand what Wolves did differently to Man United? Man United made 10 changes are were not fined, Wolves do the same and are. Thats not playing by the same rules in my book, whatever the score was.:confused:

number 27
19-02-2010, 02:49 PM
I posted the rule, but dont understand what Wolves did differently to Man United? Man United made 10 changes are were not fined, Wolves do the same and are. Thats not playing by the same rules in my book, whatever the score was.:confused:


:agree: I agree with the decision as regards WW but it is also definitely the kind of rule which will only be applied to "smaller" clubs.

Hibs On Tour
19-02-2010, 11:30 PM
I bet they wouldn't fine chelsea or arsenal or man united for doing this.

Well they clearly haven't, Arsenal have been doing it for years in the League Cup, more recently copied by Man U...

[just realised it was a PL fine not an FA fine...!]

Hibs On Tour
19-02-2010, 11:35 PM
When Arsenal etc put out weakened sides the team they put out is still one capable of winning the match. In this respect the 'Strongest Team' is taken to mean the 'strongest team needed to win the match'.

What McCarthy did was tantamount to throwing the game - and it was compounded when he admitted as much to the press. He got let off lightly in my opinion.

EZ

Dangerous ground IMO. Should be up to the Manager and the Manager alone. League, FA, etc should have bugger all to do with it. Manager's job isn't to deliver in that [or any other] one-off game, its to deliver over a season. If in his opinion he can win points with his strongest team the following weekend and rests them for this reason with the idea that any points gained are a bonus, I say that's up to him. In fact, he was borne out because that's exactly what happened so for me he has done his job by his club. They employ him, not the PL after all.
Think that the real reason so many are up in arms is that MM actually did what we harp on about wanting from managers - he was honest about it. Can't have it all ways folks. He told it straight he gets it in the neck? SAF and AW have been doing it for years but they're just 'rotating' or 'blooding youngsters' - same rules need to apply across the board and because your squad isn't of the same quality [lets be honest] that doesn't mean you shouldn't have the same options as a manager IMO.

Few people need to get off their high horses about this...

Speedy
20-02-2010, 11:13 PM
Arsenal make 6 changes for today :devil:

blackpoolhibs
20-02-2010, 11:21 PM
Arsenal make 6 changes for today :devil:

Why was Fabianski (sp) dropped? :devil:

Holmesdale Hibs
21-02-2010, 01:14 AM
A really stupid decision IMO. Teams should be able to pick who they want.

The big 4 rest players all the time as do teams in Champions League and international qualifiers. I'd like to see where the FA draw the line although I doubt they'd have the b0ll0cks to fine the bigger teams.

Removed
21-02-2010, 01:17 AM
A really stupid decision IMO. Teams should be able to pick who they want.

The big 4 rest players all the time as do teams in Champions League and international qualifiers. I'd like to see where the FA draw the line although I doubt they'd have the b0ll0cks to fine the bigger teams.

:agree:

But since the rule is applied in England the SFA should fine Hearts for not playing Goncalves :greengrin

erskine-hibby
21-02-2010, 01:23 AM
I think Yogi should be fined for his team selections lately:greengrin