Nicola sturgeon, excuse of a politician

[poolman]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2010/02/11/nicola-sturgeon-under-fire-for-providing-character-reference-for-convicted-fraudster-facing-jail-term-86908-22034364/


I suppose now it will be OK for anyone living in her constituency to be a regular benefit fraudster especially if they're not feeling well and have some kids :bitchy:

[Woody1985]

<insert most politicians name here>, excuse of a politician.

You could say the above for most of them.

Did anyone read the Margo McDonald piece in the EEN yesterday regarding here 'right to die' bill?

I thought the points she made were quite good. Despite all the speculation surrounding the bill and reporting in mainstream media she has had next to no contact from them directly to ask any of the questions they are posing in their papers/websites etc.

She also made a good point about a question posed by an audience member who said 'Only a few people die horrible deaths each year so what's the point'. Her response is 'that is the purpose of the bill!' It's not to allow mass suicide.

No doubt the bill has an element of self interest for her but at least she is looking at controversial issues that matter.

[hibsbollah]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2010/02/11/nicola-sturgeon-under-fire-for-providing-character-reference-for-convicted-fraudster-facing-jail-term-86908-22034364/ (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2010/02/11/nicola-sturgeon-under-fire-for-providing-character-reference-for-convicted-fraudster-facing-jail-term-86908-22034364/)


I suppose now it will be OK for anyone living in her constituency to be a regular benefit fraudster especially if they're not feeling well and have some kids :bitchy:

Eh, no, shes not saying "its OK", shes written a letter of mitigation to the court:confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

It's a character reference. Can't see the problem with that, if she is doing it in good faith and in her capacity as the guy's MSP.

[IndieHibby]

She asked the court not to jail him


That's not a character reference

[CropleyWasGod]

That's not a character reference

According The Scotsman, she "pointed out that Raul had heart problems, had young children and was heavily involved in community work."

[IndieHibby]

If he had stolen money from your church/community facility twice, would you be happy for a member of the Government two write to the judge, not merely pointing out his circumstances (which would have been obvious to the Judge anyway) but asking for him not to be jailed?

[CropleyWasGod]

If he had stolen money from your church/community facility twice, would you be happy for a member of the Government two write to the judge, not merely pointing out his circumstances (which would have been obvious to the Judge anyway) but asking for him not to be jailed?

As far as I can make out, she is writing as his constituency MSP, his elected representative in Parliament. In that respect, I would expect her to her job as she sees fit. And clearly, as part of her job, she will be party to more information on the case and the man than you or i.

However, if she is writing as Deputy First Minister, then she deserves a booting.

[lyonhibs]

According The Scotsman, she "pointed out that Raul had heart problems, had young children and was heavily involved in community work."

And should try to seek an "alternative measure to a custodial sentence" I believe was in there.

Heart problems or not, the man is a conman who should receive the appropriate sentence.

[CropleyWasGod]

And should try to seek an "alternative measure to a custodial sentence" I believe was in there.

Heart problems or not, the man is a conman who should receive the appropriate sentence.

And he will, I am sure. The Sheriff has already said that there is likely to be a custodial sentence.

FWIW, I think he should be jailed, too; he has previous. However, it's the sanctimony coming from the Opposition that I am P'd off at. If it were a back-bench MSP or MP doing their constituency job, as NS apparently is, there wouldn't be a sound.

[Hainan Hibs]

The Daily Record can be relied on for providing the facts and definitely not writing anything against the SNP.

Scotsman too, what an unbias newspaper which definitely does not have attacks on the SNP every single day.

[hibsbollah]

And he will, I am sure. The Sheriff has already said that there likely to be a custodial sentence.

FWIW, I think he should be jailed, too; he has previous. However, it's the sanctimony coming from the Opposition that I am P'd off at. If it were a back-bench MSP or MP doing their constituency job, as NS apparently is, there wouldn't be a sound.

:agree:

[ancienthibby]

And he will, I am sure. The Sheriff has already said that there is likely to be a custodial sentence.

FWIW, I think he should be jailed, too; he has previous. However, it's the sanctimony coming from the Opposition that I am P'd off at. If it were a back-bench MSP or MP doing their constituency job, as NS apparently is, there wouldn't be a sound.

It's known as an election coming and Labour are already desparate.:greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;2349217]

It's known as an election coming and Labour are already desparate.:greengrin

Oh, really? :rolleyes:

You really are a great big cynical old Hector. :wink:

[hibsbollah]

Living down South now I cant follow what happens at Holyrood all that closely, but when ive seen Sturgeon on TV or on radio she seems very articulate and statesmanlike and can carry a good argument. Which im sure will piss off Ian Gray and the rest of Scottish Labour no end:greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Living down South now I cant follow what happens at Holyrood all that closely, but when ive seen Sturgeon on TV or on radio she seems very articulate and statesmanlike and can carry a good argument. Which im sure will piss off Ian Gray and the rest of Scottish Labour no end:greengrin

I had a drink with one of her advisors last year, someone who is Civil Service and not tied to one party or another.

She told me that NS is very sharp, wants to know everything about everything, and grasps the heart of a topic very quickly.

[ancient hibee]

As far as I can make out, she is writing as his constituency MSP, his elected representative in Parliament. In that respect, I would expect her to her job as she sees fit. And clearly, as part of her job, she will be party to more information on the case and the man than you or i.

However, if she is writing as Deputy First Minister, then she deserves a booting.
She has done the job as she sees fit-isn't that the problem-that her judgement is suspect?At what level of crime does it cease to be OK to write to the court to try and get someone off from a custodial sentence?Benefit fraud seems to be a big problem-when this guy was in charge at a post office he forged signatures on over 700 cheques causing a lot of misery-for that he got 4 years.To try and get a reduced sentence for further offences is outrageous.

[poolman]

I had a drink with one of her advisors last year, someone who is Civil Service and not tied to one party or another.

She told me that NS is very sharp, wants to know everything about everything, and grasps the heart of a topic very quickly.


Maybe she just has a bad memory after saying recently there should be zero tolerance to benefit fraud.........unless you live in her constituency perhaps

[CropleyWasGod]

She has done the job as she sees fit-isn't that the problem-that her judgement is suspect?At what level of crime does it cease to be OK to write to the court to try and get someone off from a custodial sentence?Benefit fraud seems to be a big problem-when this guy was in charge at a post office he forged signatures on over 700 cheques causing a lot of misery-for that he got 4 years.To try and get a reduced sentence for further offences is outrageous.

On the face of it, I would agree.

But, as I said, she will have more knowledge and information than you or i do.

[ginger_rice]

It would be nice to be able to find out how many Labour MSPs have done exactly the same thing, from what I'm led to believe it's a fairly common occurrence.

[hibsdaft]

i have to confess that NS has grown on me a lot since the SNP got voted in.

as for this character reference, everybody misjudges a character every now and again.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Living down South now I cant follow what happens at Holyrood all that closely, but when ive seen Sturgeon on TV or on radio she seems very articulate and statesmanlike and can carry a good argument. Which im sure will piss off Ian Gray and the rest of Scottish Labour no end:greengrin

:agree: She is one of the better politicians in that place, and lets be honest there aren't many in Holyrood, not least from the Labour Front Bench.


I had a drink with one of her advisors last year, someone who is Civil Service and not tied to one party or another.

She told me that NS is very sharp, wants to know everything about everything, and grasps the heart of a topic very quickly.

:agree: A friend of mine met her a few times through radio work, and she has always came across very well, and willing to take the time to listen to people.

I'd also add that NS asked the judge to consider an alternative to a jail sentence. She didn't ask for the guy to escape unpunished.

[Ed De Gramo]

She needs to be binned like....just like the rest of the SNP :agree:

[GlesgaeHibby]

She needs to be binned like....just like the rest of the SNP :agree:

And replaced by who?

Labour, with such amazing politicians as Iain Gray, Andy Kerr, Cathy Jamieson, Fatty Foulkes?

The Tories? The Lib Dems?

Any evidence/opinions to back up your stance?

[Ed De Gramo]

And replaced by who?

Labour, with such amazing politicians as Iain Gray, Andy Kerr, Cathy Jamieson, Fatty Foulkes?

The Tories? The Lib Dems?

Any evidence/opinions to back up your stance?

I'm sick to the back teeth of hearing the word 'Referendum' coming out of Salmond's gob...

It's not wanted and majority of the Scottish people will tell him that IMO

The minority should put away the kilts and blue & white face paint because we're gonna be part of Britain for quite a while.

[Hainan Hibs]

I'm sick to the back teeth of hearing the word 'Referendum' coming out of Salmond's gob...

It's not wanted and majority of the Scottish people will tell him that IMO

The referendum is wanted.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8125041.stm




The minority should put away the kilts and blue & white face paint because we're gonna be part of Britain for quite a while

If that is all Salmond and co are up against, crap insults, then they can certainly achieve independence.

[hibsdaft]

I'm sick to the back teeth of hearing the word 'Referendum' coming out of Salmond's gob...

It's not wanted and majority of the Scottish people will tell him that IMO

The minority should put away the kilts and blue & white face paint because we're gonna be part of Britain for quite a while.

or alternatively, get the referendum question answered for a generation and move on either way.

[Ed De Gramo]

or alternatively, get the referendum question answered for a generation and move on either way.

True...but if the answer isn't to Salmonds pleasing....will he back down? He's become obsessed with it!

[hibsdaft]

True...but if the answer isn't to Salmonds pleasing....will he back down? He's become obsessed with it!

well it wouldn't matter would it as he'd only appear a bad loser in that scenario (and theres nothing voters hate more).

that or we would be an independent country.

thats democracy for you :-)

[GlesgaeHibby]

I'm sick to the back teeth of hearing the word 'Referendum' coming out of Salmond's gob...

It's not wanted and majority of the Scottish people will tell him that IMO

The minority should put away the kilts and blue & white face paint because we're gonna be part of Britain for quite a while.

You wouldn't hear the word referendum constantly if the other parties in the house were prepared to give the Scottish electorate the chance to vote on the issue.

Instead they all sit there tying to scare us into believing we'd crash and burn as an independent country, and assuring us that the majority of Scot's do not want independence, but yet are too scared to allow the Scottish people to have their say?

If they are so sure that the majority will vote against independence, why are they so scared to give us the vote?

[hibee62]

You wouldn't hear the word referendum constantly if the other parties in the house were prepared to give the Scottish electorate the chance to vote on the issue.

Instead they all sit there tying to scare us into believing we'd crash and burn as an independent country, and assuring us that the majority of Scot's do not want independence, but yet are too scared to allow the Scottish people to have their say?

If they are so sure that the majority will vote against independence, why are they so scared to give us the vote?

All other parties ran at the last election with the stance that they were against an independent scotland. Any move to now back a referendum would be political suicide on that front, even though there have been rumours coming from the lib dems saying they may have thought about it.

IMO, there are far more important things to worry about than whether or not Scotland is independant of Britain, I don't think its broke so I don't think we should fix it. Maybe it would make sense to have a referendum and end the debate for a generation, I honetly, however, don't think any party is afraid of a referendum, except the SNP., for whom it would be political suicide not to push for one.

[poolman]

:hijack: My OP was not about a referendum

It was more about Sturgeon being a two-faced pious individual IMO

Rauf is a near serial benefit cheat who has already been convicted of stealing benefit cheques while running a post office and for her to write to the judge to "look" at a non-custodial sentence because of his circumstances is outrageous especially after her coming out with her "zero tolerance" on benefit fraud

Well where does her "zero tolerance" start and finish :dunno:

Does she have some sort of individual criteria of who and why gets her interference into the courts decisions of who gets banged up and who doesn't

She probably has set a precedence with the rest of her constituents now and everyone convicted of this will now expect a letter from the woman to wing its way to the judge's chambers to plead clemency, unless, that is they dont have kids and they're not well :rolleyes:

[ancienthibby]

:hijack: My OP was not about a referendum

It was more about Sturgeon being a two-faced pious individual IMO

Rauf is a near serial benefit cheat who has already been convicted of stealing benefit cheques while running a post office and for her to write to the judge to "look" at a non-custodial sentence because of his circumstances is outrageous especially after her coming out with her "zero tolerance" on benefit fraud

Well where does her "zero tolerance" start and finish :dunno:

Does she have some sort of individual criteria of who and why gets her interference into the courts decisions of who gets banged up and who doesn't

She probably has set a precedence with the rest of her constituents now and everyone convicted of this will now expect a letter from the woman to wing its way to the judge's chambers to plead clemency, unless, that is they dont have kids and they're not well :rolleyes:

No precedence has been set, since politicians from time immemorial have been doing exactly this! It is the duty of elected representatives to 'lobby' on behalf of their constituents - in case you had forgotten, once elected an MP/MSP/local councillor must take on issues from every voter in the constituency whether they won their vote or not.

Seems people have a very short memory!

Are you forgetting the activity of the WAGs less than two years ago when Labour MSPs were out and about with brown envelopes soliciting £995 donations from 'non-voters' for a leadershop race which turned out not to exist yet every penny raised was kept!!!

This furore will blow over - there is not the remotest chance that the Eckmeister will allow Nicola to be bullied out by a panicking Labour Party who know full well that this issue is only about the continuing drift of their Asian vote to the SNP.

[CropleyWasGod]

:
Does she have some sort of individual criteria of who and why gets her interference into the courts decisions of who gets banged up and who doesn't
She probably has set a precedence with the rest of her constituents now and everyone convicted of this will now expect a letter from the woman to wing its way to the judge's chambers to plead clemency, unless, that is they dont have kids and they're not well :rolleyes:

As has been pointed out more than once, it's not about interference. It's about doing her job as an elected representative.

[heretoday]

She is an MSP. It's what they do.

[ancient hibee]

No precedence has been set, since politicians from time immemorial have been doing exactly this! It is the duty of elected representatives to 'lobby' on behalf of their constituents - in case you had forgotten, once elected an MP/MSP/local councillor must take on issues from every voter in the constituency whether they won their vote or not.

Seems people have a very short memory!

Are you forgetting the activity of the WAGs less than two years ago when Labour MSPs were out and about with brown envelopes soliciting £995 donations from 'non-voters' for a leadershop race which turned out not to exist yet every penny raised was kept!!!

This furore will blow over - there is not the remotest chance that the Eckmeister will allow Nicola to be bullied out by a panicking Labour Party who know full well that this issue is only about the continuing drift of their Asian vote to the SNP.
What a load of complete tripe.All Nicola Sturgeon had to do was to say to Mr.Rauf that "I have listened to what you have to say but in my opinion your offences are serious enough to require a custodial sentence."It is absolute rubbish to say MSPs MUST take on issues from every voter.They can tell someone to get lost.What next-"I realise that Dr.Shipman is a mass murderer but I believe he is very nice with old ladies"?

---------- Post added at 07:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 PM ----------


As has been pointed out more than once, it's not about interference. It's about doing her job as an elected representative.
It's not -it's about exercising judgement.

[CropleyWasGod]

What a load of complete tripe.All Nicola Sturgeon had to do was to say to Mr.Rauf that "I have listened to what you have to say but in my opinion your offences are serious enough to require a custodial sentence."It is absolute rubbish to say MSPs MUST take on issues from every voter.They can tell someone to get lost.What next-"I realise that Dr.Shipman is a mass murderer but I believe he is very nice with old ladies"?

---------- Post added at 07:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 PM ----------


It's not -it's about exercising judgement.

Indeed it is, in carrying out her job as an MSP. And, as I said earlier, neither you nor I know what information she has that enabled her to come to the judgment she did.

[allmodcons]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2010/02/11/nicola-sturgeon-under-fire-for-providing-character-reference-for-convicted-fraudster-facing-jail-term-86908-22034364/ (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2010/02/11/nicola-sturgeon-under-fire-for-providing-character-reference-for-convicted-fraudster-facing-jail-term-86908-22034364/)


I suppose now it will be OK for anyone living in her constituency to be a regular benefit fraudster especially if they're not feeling well and have some kids :bitchy:

Definite error of judgement by NS but don't let's get carried away.

The fact you've got a link to the Daily Record sums it up really.

Don't suppose you know there's an election looming?

Absolute rag of a newspaper. Owned by a very very rich 'socialist' :faf:

It's political bias is are far worse than it's football bias and any self respecting individual wouldn't wipe their erse with it let alone read it,
and, worse still in your case, believe it.

[ancient hibee]

Indeed it is, in carrying out her job as an MSP. And, as I said earlier, neither you nor I know what information she has that enabled her to come to the judgment she did.
The only information she had that you and I don't have has been supplied by a twice convicted fraudster.Everything else is in the public domain.Mr Rauf is a serial criminal worth the best part of amillion quid who wants to make himself richer.He's not some desperate down on his uppers person who cheats the social to make ends meet.How can you recommend a non custodial sentence for someone who has done time and is a repeat offender.It's a staggering lack of judgement by someone whose performance in government is streets ahead of anyone else.

[ancienthibby]

What a load of complete tripe.All Nicola Sturgeon had to do was to say to Mr.Rauf that "I have listened to what you have to say but in my opinion your offences are serious enough to require a custodial sentence."It is absolute rubbish to say MSPs MUST take on issues from every voter.They can tell someone to get lost.What next-"I realise that Dr.Shipman is a mass murderer but I believe he is very nice with old ladies"?

---------- Post added at 07:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 PM ----------


It's not -it's about exercising judgement.

The utter tripe that exists in this case belongs exclusively to the Labour Party in Scotland and their pals at the Daily Rancid (adding in BBC Scotland as the complete mouthpiece of the Labour Party).

Since the SNP took office at Holyrood, the Labour Party have had one policy and one policy only - it's known as 'Get Salmond and get the SNP'. If you ever wanted the clearest example you could find, it came at the recent budget debate in Parliament when the Labour Party voted against - note that - voted against, not abstained - the budget that funded wages for the next year for every NHS and every council worker in the country.

Utter moral and political bankruptcy for weegreyman's party:greengrin.

Yesterday I listened to the Friday lunchtime debate on Beeb radio with Brian Taylor and his quests, David McCletchie of the Tories, Richard Baker of the morally bankrupt party, Pete Wishart of the SNP, Willie Rennie of the FibDems and the journalist Andy Nicol. For the record, the Tories supported the SNP in Holyrood on the vote on this matter, Willie Rennie supported the SNP in the debate on radio, and Andy Nicol come out against the MBP. When the hapless Baker spoke he was jeered and heckled by the audience.

The MBLabour Party now offer the people of Scotland a complete ZILCH.:bye:

[BEEJ]

when ive seen Sturgeon on TV or on radio she seems very articulate and statesmanlike and can carry a good argument. Which im sure will piss off Ian Gray and the rest of Scottish Labour no end:greengrin
Indeed. Although I seldom agree with her politics, she is one of the best parliamentarians / politicians we have at Holyrood.

Makes this outrageous error of judgement on her part all the more astonishing.

[jockodile]

admitedly its been 5 yrs since i lived in scotland but the snp govt seems a positive development to me - how many years did/do we see morons voting for morons just because of the colour of their ribbon.... rest of the world can't fathom our situ - me neither, just cant expect any newspaper to be positive until post referendum day.

imagine any dublin newspaper backing reunification - same **** in scotland

[ancient hibee]

The utter tripe that exists in this case belongs exclusively to the Labour Party in Scotland and their pals at the Daily Rancid (adding in BBC Scotland as the complete mouthpiece of the Labour Party).

Since the SNP took office at Holyrood, the Labour Party have had one policy and one policy only - it's known as 'Get Salmond and get the SNP'. If you ever wanted the clearest example you could find, it came at the recent budget debate in Parliament when the Labour Party voted against - note that - voted against, not abstained - the budget that funded wages for the next year for every NHS and every council worker in the country.

Utter moral and political bankruptcy for weegreyman's party:greengrin.

Yesterday I listened to the Friday lunchtime debate on Beeb radio with Brian Taylor and his quests, David McCletchie of the Tories, Richard Baker of the morally bankrupt party, Pete Wishart of the SNP, Willie Rennie of the FibDems and the journalist Andy Nicol. For the record, the Tories supported the SNP in Holyrood on the vote on this matter, Willie Rennie supported the SNP in the debate on radio, and Andy Nicol come out against the MBP. When the hapless Baker spoke he was jeered and heckled by the audience.

The MBLabour Party now offer the people of Scotland a complete ZILCH.:bye:
What has all this got to do with Nicola Sturgeon making a gross error of judgement?

[LeithWalkHibby]

Definite error of judgement by NS but don't let's get carried away.

The fact you've got a link to the Daily Record sums it up really.

Don't suppose you know there's an election looming?

Absolute rag of a newspaper. Owned by a very very rich 'socialist' :faf:

It's political bias is are far worse than it's football bias and any self respecting individual wouldn't wipe their erse with it let alone read it,
and, worse still in your case, believe it.

Who is this very very rich 'socialist'?

[steakbake]

Plan A for labour since day one of the SNP administration has been to disregard any serious political debate and focus almost entirely on the petty, partisan politics of bringing the administration down. Their pals in the media have been only too happy to oblige.

[Betty Boop]

Who is this very very rich 'socialist'?

I thought the Trinity Mirror Group owned the Daily Record.

[LeithWalkHibby]

I thought the Trinity Mirror Group owned the Daily Record.

I think you are correct.

[allmodcons]

Who is this very very rich 'socialist'?

Apologies LWH. This was a dig at Robert Maxwell (deceased) and should have read as 'Once owned by..'

For what's it's worth the DR editorial has not changed since Trinity Mirror Plc bought the paper following Maxwell's death. It's still 100% anti SNP as, unfortunately, are most publications - tabloid or broadsheet.

[ancient hibee]

Think you'll find the Record was owned at one time by Cap'n Bob who was thought to be a very rich socialist but unfortunately it turned out to be various pension funds who were funding his lifestyle.These Scotnats must get themselves up to date about their bogeymen.

[allmodcons]

Think you'll find the Record was owned at one time by Cap'n Bob who was thought to be a very rich socialist but unfortunately it turned out to be various pension funds who were funding his lifestyle.These Scotnats must get themselves up to date about their bogeymen.

Not a bogeyman for me. Thought the whole Maxwell episode was very amusing, what with him being a great Labour Party supporter. The guy was corrupt to the core but loved by the Labour heirarchy.:faf:

[ancient hibee]

Not a bogeyman for me. Thought the whole Maxwell episode was very amusing, what with him being a great Labour Party supporter. The guy was corrupt to the core but loved by the Labour heirarchy.:faf:
Not surprising considering he bought most of them.

[sKipper]

As an SNP supporter I reckon Sturgeon has made an error of judgement on this one.

An error of judgement not in the same league as the error of judgement Labour made in appointing Iain Gray as leader though. This guy has got to be the most ineffectual leader since Ian Duncan Smith.

When the next Holyrood election comes round when people see the debates between Salmond and Gray an SNP landslide will be on the cards :agree:

[ancient hibee]

As an SNP supporter I reckon Sturgeon has made an error of judgement on this one.

An error of judgement not in the same league as the error of judgement Labour made in appointing Iain Gray as leader though. This guy has got to be the most ineffectual leader since Ian Duncan Smith.

When the next Holyrood election comes round when people see the debates between Salmond and Gray an SNP landslide will be on the cards :agree:
Want a bet?Particularly as the voting system makes sure nobody can achieve a landslide:greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Want a bet?Particularly as the voting system makes sure nobody can achieve a landslide:greengrin

I agree. I like the Scottish system as it ensures there's a broad and representative mix in the Parliament.

[sKipper]

Want a bet?Particularly as the voting system makes sure nobody can achieve a landslide:greengrin

Awright. A gubbin then :greengrin

[steakbake]

When the next Holyrood election comes round when people see the debates between Salmond and Gray an SNP landslide will be on the cards :agree:

I would be surprised if Iain Gray was still Scottish Labour leader in 2011.

This General Election is going to see a number of senior Labour figures lose their Westminster seats. Jim Murphy is perhaps most notable of these, Alastair Darling stands a good chance of being unemployed and a few others. I would imagine that some of them fancy getting into Scottish politics.

I don't know if it is the people who brief him or it's his own decision but often, Iain Gray will focus on anything but substance in parliament. His speech writer gives him glib sort of phrases like his current favourite "Everybody knows...." without actually using any facts to back up his arguments, quoting newspaper articles as a factual basis to his positions or basically he-said-she-said sort of arguments.

Jim Murphy is also given to talking absolute rubbish at times as well, but at least he can use the stats and information he has at his disposal to shape a coherent argument. I really don't think Gray has that kind of intellectual prowess.

Murphy, Darling, Tom Harris - any number of folks who could be vulnerable in the UK General Election - have the sort of profile that Scottish Labour would do well to have up front. If Labour do that, then the SNP will really have to get their act together. I think a Salmond government seeking re-election against a much more intellectually competent and less petty opposition who actually have some policies beyond being contrary, would definitely struggle.

[ancienthibby]

As an SNP supporter I reckon Sturgeon has made an error of judgement on this one.

An error of judgement not in the same league as the error of judgement Labour made in appointing Iain Gray as leader though. This guy has got to be the most ineffectual leader since Ian Duncan Smith.

When the next Holyrood election comes round when people see the debates between Salmond and Gray an SNP landslide will be on the cards :agree:


No error of judgment at all!!

You want an error judgment by a noted MSP?

Try this one:

http://findarticles.com/p/news-articles/daily-mail-london-england-the/mi_8002/is_2003_Sept_23/letter-police-minister-nobble-thugs/ai_n37033590/

Labour Party in Scotland: RIP:devil:

[Hainan Hibs]

Jim Murphy would appeal greatly to the Labour masses.

His usual "Scotland cannae dae this", "Scotland cannae afford that", "Scotland needs the UK" put downs will have the doom and gloom merchant's chugging away to themselves.

I despise that man btw:grr::greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

No error of judgment at all!!

You want an error judgment by a noted MSP?

Try this one:

http://findarticles.com/p/news-articles/daily-mail-london-england-the/mi_8002/is_2003_Sept_23/letter-police-minister-nobble-thugs/ai_n37033590/

Labour Party in Scotland: RIP:devil:

So the SNP spin doctors come back to equalise against the Labour ones? :devil:

[steakbake]

Jim Murphy would appeal greatly to the Labour masses.

His usual "Scotland cannae dae this", "Scotland cannae afford that", "Scotland needs the UK" put downs will have the doom and gloom merchant's chugging away to themselves.

I despise that man btw:grr::greengrin

You betcha. He also has pals in the media. Not that he really needs them, to be honest - the media is relatively sympathetic to Scottish Labour already.

[AgentDaleCooper]

I'd also add that NS asked the judge to consider an alternative to a jail sentence. She didn't ask for the guy to escape unpunished.

exactly - prisons are too full as it is so what the hell would the point be of chucking this old chap away?

[ancient hibee]

exactly - prisons are too full as it is so what the hell would the point be of chucking this old chap away?
How about the fact that he spends his time defrauding needy people of their benefits?

[allmodcons]

How about the fact that he spends his time defrauding needy people of their benefits?

IMO this guy deserves a prison sentence, but I can see the merits in him getting community service, especially if it's to help the 'needy people' you
seem so concerned about AH.

[GlesgaeHibby]

I would be surprised if Iain Gray was still Scottish Labour leader in 2011.

This General Election is going to see a number of senior Labour figures lose their Westminster seats. Jim Murphy is perhaps most notable of these, Alastair Darling stands a good chance of being unemployed and a few others. I would imagine that some of them fancy getting into Scottish politics.

I don't know if it is the people who brief him or it's his own decision but often, Iain Gray will focus on anything but substance in parliament. His speech writer gives him glib sort of phrases like his current favourite "Everybody knows...." without actually using any facts to back up his arguments, quoting newspaper articles as a factual basis to his positions or basically he-said-she-said sort of arguments.

Jim Murphy is also given to talking absolute rubbish at times as well, but at least he can use the stats and information he has at his disposal to shape a coherent argument. I really don't think Gray has that kind of intellectual prowess.

Murphy, Darling, Tom Harris - any number of folks who could be vulnerable in the UK General Election - have the sort of profile that Scottish Labour would do well to have up front. If Labour do that, then the SNP will really have to get their act together. I think a Salmond government seeking re-election against a much more intellectually competent and less petty opposition who actually have some policies beyond being contrary, would definitely struggle.

That would be like a breath of fresh air for Scottish politics. Iain Gray, Andy Kerr and cronies are like a bunch of petty school kids without the ability to reason and argue coherently. They have absolutely no substance at all, and their constant refusal to back the minimum pricing for alcohol is ridiculously petty.

[poolman]

Half-hearted apology today obviously to try and save some face from Sturgeon

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8531189.stm

[ancienthibby]

Half-hearted apology today obviously to try and save some face from Sturgeon

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8531189.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8531189.stm)

Results from Holyrood today:

Labour Nil - SNP 2;

Result from Westminster today:

Labour Nil - All parties 1;

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[BEEJ]

No error of judgment at all!!


Results from Holyrood today:

Labour Nil - SNP 2;
The fact that Sturgeon felt the need to apologise to the Scottish Parliament today proves that she did in fact make an error of judgement. :wink:

[Calvin]

The fact that Sturgeon felt the need to apologise to the Scottish Parliament today proves that she did in fact make an error of judgement. :wink:

Not necessarily. It proves that a lot of people thought that she did.

[BEEJ]

Not necessarily. It proves that a lot of people thought that she did.
Politicians do not make apologies in the full glare of the public eye and general media unless they absolutely have to. :greengrin

And by going into detail as to where she felt she erred in the wording of her letter she demonstrated that, were similar circumstances to arise again, she would do things a bit differently.

[Calvin]

Politicians do not make apologies in the full glare of the public eye and general media unless they absolutely have to. :greengrin

And by going into detail as to where she felt she erred in the wording of her letter she demonstrated that, were similar circumstances to arise again, she would do things a bit differently.

Very true, in politics something is only what the public think it is!

[allmodcons]

Half-hearted apology today obviously to try and save some face from Sturgeon

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8531189.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8531189.stm)

Disnae half make your thread look silly though!

You should have known better than to you jump on the bandwagon set rolling by Ian Gray and that sad excuse for an newspaper, The Daily Record.

If you really want 'an excuse for a politician' look no further than Jim Murphy. He's spent the last few days trying to mix religion and politics only to be politely told to ****** off by his own church.

[allmodcons]

The fact that Sturgeon felt the need to apologise to the Scottish Parliament today proves that she did in fact make an error of judgement. :wink:

What's your point Beej. I think she'd probably agree with you, her error being the last paragraph of her letter where she asked for consideration to be given to a non custodial sentence.

Damned if she does, damned is she doesn't.

[BEEJ]

What's your point Beej. I think she'd probably agree with you, her error being the last paragraph of her letter where she asked for consideration to be given to a non custodial sentence.
Earlier in this thread some were insisting that Sturgeon had made no error of judgement at all. If that was indeed the case she would not have made the public apology that she did today about both the wording of parts of her letter and the 'ask' at the very end.

Politicians do not voluntarily step forward for that kind of exercise purely because the public have been whipped up to 'perceive' an action as misjudged. There has to be some substance to the case against them before they go as far as saying 'sorry'.

Not a question of 'damning'.

[Removed]

I'm watching her squirm on BBC2 just now. It's embarrasing. She wrote a letter for a benefits cheat who had previous convictions.

How on earth does that happen. She should resign.

[allmodcons]

I'm watching her squirm on BBC2 just now. It's embarrasing. She wrote a letter for a benefits cheat who had previous convictions.

How on earth does that happen. She should resign.

As you were enjoying 'watching her squirm' I can assume you don't like NS and don't like the SNP. Fair enough, everyone's entitled to an opinion, but just what has she done that makes you think she should resign.

Can I take you've never made an error of judgement?

IMO anybody who's calling for a resignation over this matter is either deluded or, more likely in the case of the Holyrood opposition, prefer to play around with character assassinations than debate the 'real' issues facing Scotland.

Meanwhile, as you 'watch her squirm' young kids are coming home from Afghanistan in body bags and the UK econmony is meltdown because of Gordon Brown massive debt.

[RyeSloan]

As you were enjoying 'watching her squirm' I can assume you don't like NS and don't like the SNP. Fair enough, everyone's entitled to an opinion, but just what has she done that makes you think she should resign.

Can I take you've never made an error of judgement?

IMO anybody who's calling for a resignation over this matter is either deluded or, more likely in the case of the Holyrood opposition, prefer to play around with character assassinations than debate the 'real' issues facing Scotland.

Meanwhile, as you 'watch her squirm' young kids are coming home from Afghanistan in body bags and the UK econmony is meltdown because of Gordon Brown massive debt.

Which of course has no relevance to Sturgeon or if her letter was a mistake or not.

Seems quite clear to me that she made a significant error in judgement, she herseld states that some of the letter should have written differently and that she overstepped the mark asking for a non custodial sentance.

It's seems quite odd to me that even although NS has addmitted making mistakes in an address to Parliament that there are some SNP supporters on here that can't do the same!!

I also find it odd that NS should have written any letter supporting someone who has defrauded the state for such a large sum whether she was their MSP or not and think that she should, on consideration, have withdrawn it.

[Removed]

As you were enjoying 'watching her squirm' I can assume you don't like NS and don't like the SNP. Fair enough, everyone's entitled to an opinion, but just what has she done that makes you think she should resign.

Can I take you've never made an error of judgement?

IMO anybody who's calling for a resignation over this matter is either deluded or, more likely in the case of the Holyrood opposition, prefer to play around with character assassinations than debate the 'real' issues facing Scotland.

Meanwhile, as you 'watch her squirm' young kids are coming home from Afghanistan in body bags and the UK econmony is meltdown because of Gordon Brown massive debt.

In addition to the post SiMar has already eloquently made, when did I say I was 'enjoying' watching her squirm? You just added that in to fit in with your position. I said I found it embarrasing, a bit different from enjoying it.

Re NS, I don't mind her and I have voted SNP before so another of your assumptions blown. Angela Constance has better legs though :greengrin

Have I made an error of judgment before? Yes, but I'm not Deputy First Minister and I have never tried to defend or plead for a benefits cheat and never would.

And your last paragraph, no need for that, has nothing to do with my post or this thread has it.

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm watching her squirm on BBC2 just now. It's embarrasing. She wrote a letter for a benefits cheat who had previous convictions.

How on earth does that happen. She should resign.

As what? She did "the thing" in her capacity as MSP. Badly, as she now accepts. It's up to her constituents to decide whether she did that badly that she no should longer represent them.

As Health Minister? No relevance, except for those who would use it as political capital.

[allmodcons]

Which of course has no relevance to Sturgeon or if her letter was a mistake or not.

Seems quite clear to me that she made a significant error in judgement, she herseld states that some of the letter should have written differently and that she overstepped the mark asking for a non custodial sentance.

It's seems quite odd to me that even although NS has addmitted making mistakes in an address to Parliament that there are some SNP supporters on here that can't do the same!!

I also find it odd that NS should have written any letter supporting someone who has defrauded the state for such a large sum whether she was their MSP or not and think that she should, on consideration, have withdrawn it.

Of course it's relevant. All the Labour Party in Scotland have done in opposition is disgaree with anything the SNP support and call for Ministers to be sacked - e.g. Salmond, Macaskill, Hyslop and now Sturgeon. No policies and nothing to say about the real issues just pettiness and political posturing. They're an absolute waste of space, and if you want confirmation of that look no further than 'Lord' Fowkes.

Not me! I said earlier on in thread that I thought she'd made a definite error of judgement. Just don't think it has anything to do with her resigning her post in the Government.

[BEEJ]

It's seems quite odd to me that even although NS has admitted making mistakes in an address to Parliament that there are some SNP supporters on here that can't do the same!!
:agree:

The implication being that they think she was being disingenuous (or sparing with the truth) in the act of giving her apology. Weird!

[allmodcons]

In addition to the post SiMar has already eloquently made, when did I say I was 'enjoying' watching her squirm? You just added that in to fit in with your position. I said I found it embarrasing, a bit different from enjoying it.

Re NS, I don't mind her and I have voted SNP before so another of your assumptions blown. Angela Constance has better legs though :greengrin

Have I made an error of judgment before? Yes, but I'm not Deputy First Minister and I have never tried to defend or plead for a benefits cheat and never would.

And your last paragraph, no need for that, has nothing to do with my post or this thread has it.

I'll take your word for it that you don't mind NS, but can't recall saying you'd never voted SNP, only that your post suggested you didn't like them.

With regard to my last paragraph, refer to my reply to the 'eloquent' SiMar.

[ancient hibee]

Seems to me that there wouldn't have been such a fuss if her blustering buffoon of a boss had let her apologise a fortnight ago instead of telling her that he would shout very loudly and that would make everything ok.

[Removed]

As what? She did "the thing" in her capacity as MSP. Badly, as she now accepts. It's up to her constituents to decide whether she did that badly that she no should longer represent them.

As Health Minister? No relevance, except for those who would use it as political capital.

As an MSP. She is defending crooks. Did she not think that would be perceived as a bit strange. I'm sure the he constituents will take this into consideration in May, but there again it is Glasgow Govan.


I'll take your word for it that you don't mind NS, but can't recall saying you'd never voted SNP, only that your post suggested you didn't like them.

You didn't, you said I didn't like them. Why would I vote for a candidate from a party I don't like. I offered that information to be clear that I don't have an agenda against the SNP. Just a shame the First Minister is a yam.

[allmodcons]

Seems to me that there wouldn't have been such a fuss if her blustering buffoon of a boss had let her apologise a fortnight ago instead of telling her that he would shout very loudly and that would make everything ok.

Natural thing for Salmond to do (lion protecting his cubs).

Can you imagine all the sh*te in the media and nonsense from the oppostion benches if he hadn't given her his whole hearted support.

'Salmond stabs Sturgoen in back' :blah::blah:

[allmodcons]

As an MSP. She is defending crooks. Did she not think that would be perceived as a bit strange. I'm sure the he constituents will take this into consideration in May, but there again it is Glasgow Govan.



You didn't, you said I didn't like them. Why would I vote for a candidate from a party I don't like. I offered that information to be clear that I don't have an agenda against the SNP. Just a shame the First Minister is a yam.

'Cos he or she, as an individual, is a good candidate or, under FPTP, in order to keep someone else out.

[Removed]

'Cos he or she, as an individual, is a good candidate or, under FPTP, in order to keep someone else out.

Suppose you are right then after all. I voted SNP to keep the labour candidate out.

Unfortunately it didn't work. We got Jim Devine :bitchy:

[Hainan Hibs]

Of course it's relevant. All the Labour Party in Scotland have done in opposition is disgaree with anything the SNP support and call for Ministers to be sacked - e.g. Salmond, Macaskill, Hyslop and now Sturgeon. No policies and nothing to say about the real issues just pettiness and political posturing. They're an absolute waste of space, and if you want confirmation of that look no further than 'Lord' Fowkes.


Here Here:thumbsup:

Completely agree with all of that. They have no aim whatsoever apart from blindly disagreeing with anything the SNP puts forward. Absolutely pathetic opposition.

[Calvin]

Completely agree with all of that. They have no aim whatsoever apart from blindly disagreeing with anything the SNP puts forward. Absolutely pathetic opposition.

Their unofficial strategy from within the party is exactly that. Their constant bad-mouthing and opposition of the SNP while putting forward no policies of their own is very much deliberate.

[allmodcons]

Suppose you are right then after all. I voted SNP to keep the labour candidate out.

Unfortunately it didn't work. We got Jim Devine :bitchy:


You have my sympathy 65bd. Jim Devine would defo fit the bill for the thread title, for he truly is 'an excuse of a politician'.

[RyeSloan]

Of course it's relevant. All the Labour Party in Scotland have done in opposition is disgaree with anything the SNP support and call for Ministers to be sacked - e.g. Salmond, Macaskill, Hyslop and now Sturgeon. No policies and nothing to say about the real issues just pettiness and political posturing. They're an absolute waste of space, and if you want confirmation of that look no further than 'Lord' Fowkes.


Here Here:thumbsup:

Completely agree with all of that. They have no aim whatsoever apart from blindly disagreeing with anything the SNP puts forward. Absolutely pathetic opposition.

Fair enough, I have no love for Scottish Labour or Gordon Brown either but I still disagree that the national defecit or body bags from Afghanistan has any relevance what so ever to judging whether you think NS made an error in writing to a court of law supporting a serial benefit thief and one who stole £80k from the tax payer.

Are Scottish Labour effective and constructive in opposition, probably not...does that have any relevance to an MSP of whatever party trying to keep a benefit thief out of jail? Not in my book. You are saying that others peoples actions are lessening the effect of NS's error therefore you would have to say that if Labour in opposition in Scotland and in power in Britain were doing an excellent job that this would somehow make NS's error worse!?!

It's quite clear to me this is an isolated incident that should be treated as such, it was an individual operating as a constituent MSP outwith party boundaries so comparing this to a war in afghanistan or a national parties 13 years in power makes no sense.

[poolman]

Disnae half make your thread look silly though!

You should have known better than to you jump on the bandwagon set rolling by Ian Gray and that sad excuse for an newspaper, The Daily Record.
If you really want 'an excuse for a politician' look no further than Jim Murphy. He's spent the last few days trying to mix religion and politics only to be politely told to ****** off by his own church.


How the **** does it make the thread look silly:bitchy:

And if you had'nt noticed every newspaper in the land carried the story :rolleyes:

Sorry if i've upset your little nationalistic feelings because some egotistical politician made a trumpet of herself :dummytit:

[allmodcons]

How the **** does it make the thread look silly:bitchy:

And if you had'nt noticed every newspaper in the land carried the story :rolleyes:

Sorry if i've upset your little nationalistic feelings because some egotistical politician made a trumpet of herself :dummytit:

Your 3 points and funny faces in order:-

1) You only started the thread because she's an SNP MSP (i.e. - you let your own politics cloud the issue and then went on to condemn someone who many, including a large number of opposition MSPs, agree is a decent hard working MSP) and didn't think she'd have the guts to make a public apology for what, I agree, was an error of judgement on her part.

2) Your thread carried a link direct to the Daily Record's 'unbiased' report.

3) Not at all upset, but happy for you that you got to use the third of your funny wee faces. Good for you Poolman, fair point well made!

[allmodcons]

You are saying that others peoples actions are lessening the effect of NS's error therefore you would have to say that if Labour in opposition in Scotland and in power in Britain were doing an excellent job that this would somehow make NS's error worse!?!

It's quite clear to me this is an isolated incident that should be treated as such, it was an individual operating as a constituent MSP outwith party boundaries so comparing this to a war in afghanistan or a national parties 13 years in power makes no sense.

Sorry SiMar but you're missing the point here! You say yourself that this is about an 'individual operating as a constituency MSP' yet, instead of raising serious political issues in the Scottish Parliament, the leader of the Labour Group decides to use FM's questions to call for NS's resignation over this issue.

As I've said already, she made an error of judgement, but there is wider issue here regarding the conduct of the Labour Party in Holyrood.

If we can't discuss the wider issue, the OP would have been aswell just setting up a yes/no poll to the 'question' - NS an excuse of a politician.

[poolman]

Your 3 points and funny faces in order:-

1) You only started the thread because she's an SNP MSP (i.e. - you let your own politics cloud the issue and then went on to condemn someone who many, including a large number of opposition MSPs, agree is a decent hard working MSP) and didn't think she'd have the guts to make a public apology for what, I agree, was an error of judgement on her part.

2) Your thread carried a link direct to the Daily Record's 'unbiased' report.

3) Not at all upset, but happy for you that you got to use the third of your funny wee faces. Good for you Poolman, fair point well made!



For somebody that thinks that this is a "silly thread" you have 14 posts on it :confused:

[RyeSloan]

Sorry SiMar but you're missing the point here! You say yourself that this is about an 'individual operating as a constituency MSP' yet, instead of raising serious political issues in the Scottish Parliament, the leader of the Labour Group decides to use FM's questions to call for NS's resignation over this issue.

As I've said already, she made an error of judgement, but there is wider issue here regarding the conduct of the Labour Party in Holyrood.

If we can't discuss the wider issue, the OP would have been aswell just setting up a yes/no poll to the 'question' - NS an excuse of a politician.


Me missing the point? Hmmm.

You seem to think that there is a wider point, you have widened it yourself by insinuating that this is somehow dispicable Labour tactics, usual Nat bashing from the DR and going on about Labour failings, economies in meltdown and body bags from Afghanistan.

My point is that this was clearly an error of judgement, that surely such individual actions should be raised in Parliament (where else should MSP actions be discussed?) and that you and others are raising the points above to try and deflect critisism or lessen the folly of NS's actions.

Sure there is plenty 'wider' points to discuss regarding whether she should have written the letter in the first place, whether Salmond should have poo pood the initial questions, why a MSP was trying to protect such an idividual etc but there are RELATED to the the OP and NS's actions, what I am asking is do you really think that soldiers being blown up in Afghanistan has ANY relevance to Sturgeons actions and if so in what way?

[allmodcons]

For somebody that thinks that this is a "silly thread" you have 14 posts on it :confused:

I'm impressed you're counting, that'll be 15 now. Sometimes the worst threads generate the most responses.

Let just agree to disagree.

I wouldn't hold your politics against you. Mind you if you were anti SNP and a Jambo I might have to reconsider my position.

[poolman]

Your 3 points and funny faces in order:-

1) You only started the thread because she's an SNP MSP (i.e. - you let your own politics cloud the issue and then went on to condemn someone who many, including a large number of opposition MSPs, agree is a decent hard working MSP) and didn't think she'd have the guts to make a public apology for what, I agree, was an error of judgement on her part.

2) Your thread carried a link direct to the Daily Record's 'unbiased' report.

3) Not at all upset, but happy for you that you got to use the third of your funny wee faces. Good for you Poolman, fair point well made!



#1 Absolute drivel, you have no idea where my political allegiances lie and I have not mentioned once on this thread what they are. It's a sorry day if you think that you have to agree on every subject that the party you follow comes out with

#2 Show me any other report from any other source that differs from the DR. For your information I do not buy the DR, I merely put up a link from it

#3 Smilies are there for the use of the posters to use anyway they wish in the context of their post...............it's why they are there :agree:

[allmodcons]

Me missing the point? Hmmm.

You seem to think that there is a wider point, you have widened it yourself by insinuating that this is somehow dispicable Labour tactics, usual Nat bashing from the DR and going on about Labour failings, economies in meltdown and body bags from Afghanistan.

My point is that this was clearly an error of judgement, that surely such individual actions should be raised in Parliament (where else should MSP actions be discussed?) and that you and others are raising the points above to try and deflect critisism or lessen the folly of NS's actions.

Sure there is plenty 'wider' points to discuss regarding whether she should have written the letter in the first place, whether Salmond should have poo pood the initial questions, why a MSP was trying to protect such an idividual etc but there are RELATED to the the OP and NS's actions, what I am asking is do you really think that soldiers being blown up in Afghanistan has ANY relevance to Sturgeons actions and if so in what way?

As I said earlier on in the thread, I to think it was an error of judgement on her part.

I also agree with the portion of your post in bold in that I don't think it had any relevance to her actions, however, I still don't think it was an issue for FM's questions and, as soon as Labour asked her to consider her position as deputy FM that's when the whole debate lends itself to the wider issue of how the 'main' oppostion at Holyrood conduct themselves.

As I've already said if we can't discuss the wider issue why not just have a poll with a yes/no answer.

[allmodcons]

#1 Absolute drivel, you have no idea where my political allegiances lie and I have not mentioned once on this thread what they are. It's a sorry day if you think that you have to agree on every subject that the party you follow comes out with

#2 Show me any other report from any other source that differs from the DR. For your information I do not buy the DR, I merely put up a link from it

#3 Smilies are there for the use of the posters to use anyway they wish in the context of their post...............it's why they are there :agree:


Your thread and tone throughout tells me (and anybody else who's posted here) that you're not a SNP supporter, so whilst I agree I don't know where your political allegiances lie, I DO know where they don't lie - if you get my drift.

Not so much drivel afterall. Unless of course you're going to come back at me and tell me I'm wrong about you not being an SNP supporter.

[allmodcons]

Putting our disagreement aside Poolman, you must be impressed that I'm keeping your thread at the top of the HG board.

Maybe it was wrong of me to call it a silly thread:wink:

[poolman]

Putting our disagreement aside Poolman, you must be impressed that I'm keeping your thread at the top of the HG board.

Maybe it was wrong of me to call it a silly thread:wink:


Nae probs mate :thumbsup:

[RyeSloan]

As I said earlier on in the thread, I to think it was an error of judgement on her part.

Yup fair enough I'm glad you confirmed that because it certainly was!! :greengrin


I also agree with the portion of your post in bold in that I don't think it had any relevance to her actions

OK strange then that you posted "Meanwhile, as you 'watch her squirm' young kids are coming home from Afghanistan in body bags and the UK econmony is meltdown because of Gordon Brown massive debt." but I am glad that you have agreed that this had no relevance to the OP at all.


however, I still don't think it was an issue for FM's questions and, as soon as Labour asked her to consider her position as deputy FM that's when the whole debate lends itself to the wider issue of how the 'main' oppostion at Holyrood conduct themselves.

Possibly. I presume the question was raised at FM's questions as it was related to a leading member to the FM's administration, I don't see this as totally outrageous or out of order.

I think it could also be argued that if NS's judgement could be so off kilter on this subject then what is the quality of her judgement in other areas. I agree that demanding a resignation would be taking it too far but I don't think that asking the question is really some sort of killer example on Labour's conduct.

Don't get me wrong I think Labour in opposition in Scotland have been absolutely useless and Iain Gray an excuse of a politician. I just think that in this case the questions were justified, the error in judgement real and that none of this should ever have been linked to Afghanistan or even used to somehow imply that there was nothing to see here now move along, just Labour and the DR at their old tricks....

[allmodcons]

but I am glad that you have agreed that this had no relevance to the OP at all.

Possibly. I presume the question was raised at FM's questions as it was related to a leading member to the FM's administration, I don't see this as totally outrageous or out of order.

I think it could also be argued that if NS's judgement could be so off kilter on this subject then what is the quality of her judgement in other areas. I agree that demanding a resignation would be taking it too far but I don't think that asking the question is really some sort of killer example on Labour's conduct.

Don't get me wrong I think Labour in opposition in Scotland have been absolutely useless and Iain Gray an excuse of a politician. I just think that in this case the questions were justified, the error in judgement real and that none of this should ever have been linked to Afghanistan or even used to somehow imply that there was nothing to see here now move along, just Labour and the DR at their old tricks....


You're completely misreading me (and funnily enough, for that matter, your very own quote).

What I agreed with was that these issues had nothing to do with NS's decision to write a letter in support of this guy. Not once did I say it had no relevance to the OP.

If you'd actually taken the time to read my posts you'll see that I have consistently said, throughout the thread, that the conduct of the Labour opposition at Holyrood opened the debate up to much wider issues like why are they continually making personal attacks in the Scottish Parliament and calling for resignations every few months when they should be dealing with the 'real' issues that our country faces.

For the last time, if we can't debate the wider issues arising from the OP, why don't we all just post a yes/no answer to every thread?

[RyeSloan]

You're completely misreading me (and funnily enough, for that matter, your very own quote).

What I agreed with was that these issues had nothing to do with NS's decision to write a letter in support of this guy. Not once did I say it had no relevance to the OP.

Eh? The OP is about NS's letter is it not?!?



If you'd actually taken the time to read my posts

Oh so I just happen to quote you without reading what you have written??? :bitchy:


you'll see that I have consistently said, throughout the thread, that the conduct of the Labour opposition at Holyrood opened the debate up to much wider issues like why are they continually making personal attacks in the Scottish Parliament and calling for resignations every few months when they should be dealing with the 'real' issues that our country faces.

And I happened to agree with you to a point so who is not reading what? However Scottish Labour have nothing to do with UK national debt and Afghanistan have they so your point is not entirely valid.


For the last time, if we can't debate the wider issues arising from the OP, why don't we all just post a yes/no answer to every thread?

And yet again I suggest that I have already agreed with you to a point that this was fair enough and also gave you reasons why your apparent indigination at Labour asking these questions in the first place was maybe slightly over the top....

Anyhoo we at least agree the NS made a error in judgement and Scottish Labour are pi** poor as an opposition so we should maybe just leave it there!!

[lucky]

I am Labour voter.


I actually think she is a very good politician. But on this occasion she has made an arse of it. If any minister at westminster had written to a judge stating what sentence should be given to a twice guilty fraudster every Tory and Nat would screaming about it.

Ministers should not try intervene in sentencing. end of.


But she is a very good health secretary shame about the blow bag of a boss she is landed with

[poolman]

Abdul Rauf jailed for two years

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/176800-fraudster-who-embroiled-nicola-sturgeon-in-court-row-jailed/

[The Harp Awakes]

I am Labour voter.


I actually think she is a very good politician. But on this occasion she has made an arse of it. If any minister at westminster had written to a judge stating what sentence should be given to a twice guilty fraudster every Tory and Nat would screaming about it.

Ministers should not try intervene in sentencing. end of.


But she is a very good health secretary shame about the blow bag of a boss she is landed with

Totally agree apart from your comment about Salmond. NS has been a good health secretary and did really well dealing with the media generated hysteria of the swine flu.

She is a very good politician who wins most of the TV debates she appears in.

[Sir David Gray]

This is yet another reason I have for not voting SNP.

I know this story originated a couple of months ago but I find it astonishing that a politician would even consider asking a court to consider alternatives to a custodial sentence for someone who has been convicted of fraud on that kind of scale.