Have Hibs Ever Released A Player Who Has Gone On To Better Things?

[Speedway]

I was thinking about players on the verge of the first team that we've decided to let go, and wondered if any had given us a GIRUY with their career thereafter.

This doesn't include players released at 14 nor those that walked under freedom of contract. Rather it's those tipped to make their breakthrough, who never did and didn't match Hibs level anywhere else either.

So are there any exceptions to the rule?

In recent years (15-20-ish), players I can think of that were tipped for the top at Hibs but were emptied are the likes of:

Jay Shields
Ross Campbell
Ross Chisholm
Lofty McNeill
Sean Lynch
Dermot McCaffrey
Jamie McCluskey
Lee Bailley
Scott Bannerman
Emilio Bottylergy
Alan Reid
Mark Dempsie
Paul Hilland
David Huggins
Kevin Nicol
Davie Nicholls (Always thought that boy was going to make it)
Eric Paton
Graeme Love
Graeme Miller
Greg Miller
Graham Donald

Did we let anyone go who came back to haunt us?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Did we release Kirk Broadfoot or did he leave us?

[Barney McGrew]

Not so much haunt us, but Kirk Broadband has done OK.

Though I'm not sure if that was a case where we punted him or he chose to leave.

[Captain Trips]

Justlaughing you here about clubs letting Andy Cole go as think wont make it or Shearer, we have Broadfoot :faf:

It does say though we get it pretty accurate when we move players on.

[Speedway]

Not so much haunt us, but Kirk Broadband has done OK.

Though I'm not sure if that was a case where we punted him or he chose to leave.

Clubfoot didn't make a first team appearance nor the bench IIRC.

[Barney McGrew]

Clubfoot didn't make a first team appearance nor the bench IIRC.

I'm sure you're spot on with that. He left us when he was about 17 or 18.

I think he was around in the same youth team as Katie and Broony though.

[1two]

:tin hat:

Paul Hartley

[MoantheCabbage]

Not sure how you would class him but Paul Hartley was murder for us and defo came back to haunt us on more than one occasion

[Ritchie]

possibly Dobbie???

[cockneymike]

Paul Wright, scored bucketloads against us for St J, and Killie - particularly one game in the cup where he scored a hat trick at ER I seem to remember.

Also Andy Dow - another cup semi revenge.

[--------]

John Robertson.

On our books as a youngster. Punted by Tom Hart because he and his family wouldn't be bullied (Hart's preferred management option in all his business dealings). Did not too badly at some other club whose name escapes me just right now.

Willie Pettigrew.

On our books as a youngster. Punted as 'not Hibs class'. Scored a fair number of goals for Motherwell and some other smaller club whose name escapes me just right now.

We also released Gordon Smith after a serious knee-injury. We reckoned he was done. He went on to win League Championships and other honours with Dundee and a wee team of no importance. (Though he doesn't really come within the parameters of the OP.)

I also seem to recall a wing-half Derek Whiteford - poor lad was competing with Pat Stanton for the right-half berth in the late 1960's. Went to Airdrieonians and gave us no end of trouble over the next few years - especially in Cup ties.

And we released (or sold for a derisory fee) Ronnie Simpson to Celtic (OK, the deal stank to high heaven in retrospect, but still) and HE went on to win a European Cup and lots of other medals....

[hibsbollah]

Depends on how you define 'better things' I suppose...you mean bigger club?

[Killiehibbie]

John Robertson.

On our books as a youngster. Punted by Tom Hart because he and his family wouldn't be bullied (Hart's preferred management option in all his business dealings). Did not too badly at some other club whose name escapes me just right now.

Willie Pettigrew.

On our books as a youngster. Punted as 'not Hibs class'. Scored a fair number of goals for Motherwell and some other smaller club whose name escapes me just right now.

We also released Gordon Smith after a serious knee-injury. We reckoned he was done. He went on to win League Championships and other honours with Dundee and a wee team of no importance. (Though he doesn't really come within the parameters of the OP.)

I also seem to recall a wing-half Derek Whiteford - poor lad was competing with Pat Stanton for the right-half berth in the late 1960's. Went to Airdrieonians and gave us no end of trouble over the next few years - especially in Cup ties.

And we released (or sold for a derisory fee) Ronnie Simpson to Celtic (OK, the deal stank to high heaven in retrospect, but still) and HE went on to win a European Cup and lots of other medals....

Did Stein not follow Simson 3 weeks later?

Gordon Strachan walked out and signed for Dundee the next day.

[JoJo_07]

Kirk Broadfoot I suppose (as has been mentioned by others):wink:. He was with Hibs for a year as a youth. Has won league twice with Rangers.

An older player of note, Alen Orman (Champions League with FC Thun)

[--------]

Did Stein not follow Simson 3 weeks later?

Gordon Strachan walked out and signed for Dundee the next day.



I confidently expect Jack 'RhentaBhoy' Regan to be on here momentarily to deny this, but it is a matter of history that Stein sold Simpson to Celtic for a fee of about £5,000 - derisory even in the 1960's. Simpson was officially going to Celtic to 'help out' with the younger players in their reserves. (At least that's what Stein said at the time.)

I'm not sure just how long after Simpson's departure it was that Stein moved on, but he was no sooner at Parkhead than he had this blinding revelation that Simpson was actually a MUCH better keeper at Parkhead than he had been at Easter Road, and started playing him in the Celtic first team. (Sort of Gordon Strachan/Deek in reverse, if you see what I mean....)

It wasn't long after THAT that the Scotland manager (one Bobby Brown, a former Rangers goalkeeper) also realised how good Simpson was. Which is why he played at Wembley in the 3-2 victory in 1967.

Strachan was another, of course - we let him slip out of our hands, and lived to regret it.

Although Joe T did get a wee bit back for us that evening in 1988....

[Speedway]

Orman, Dobbie, Wright etc all made numerous appearances for the first team as first team regulars who were all well into their 20s when they did.

I'm thinking an example here might be Jason Gardiner or Stevie Woods.

[--------]

Orman, Dobbie, Wright etc all made numerous appearances for the first team as first team regulars who were all well into their 20s when they did.

I'm thinking an example here might be Jason Gardiner or Stevie Woods.


Woods did OK at Motherwell. I've forgotten - where did Gardiner go?

[TRC]

Well Shelton Martis went on to play in the epl for West Brom, sure he went 'cause he wasn't wanted by Collins?

[Holmesdale Hibs]

:tin hat:

Paul Hartley

Yes, he was the first one I thought of. Improved alot since his Hibs days.

[--------]

Orman, Dobbie, Wright etc all made numerous appearances for the first team as first team regulars who were all well into their 20s when they did.

I'm thinking an example here might be Jason Gardiner or Stevie Woods.


:agree:

I wouldn't count the likes of Ronnie Simpson, Paul Wright, or Gordon Smith as coming within the scope of your OP. Nor Alen Orman or Hartley or Dow - those guys moved on as normal transfers - not fitting in at ER, or transferred to make way (and cash) for other players, or just freakin plundered by bandits like Simpson was.

Dobbie was released by Mowbray as surplus to requirements and as not good enough (well, he probably wasn't at the time), but has gone on to demonstrate that with a wee bit of imaginative and sympathetic managment he could have become quite an asset to us. So IMO he's borderline.

Whiteford was simply released so he could come through to Airdrie (his family's from round here). Robbo and Pettigrew were major goalscorers in their day and Hearts-supporting acquaintances never lost an opportunity of pointing out to me what Hibs had lost by releasing them. Broadfoot's done OK, to be fair. It'd be handy enough to have him at the club now - free Witherspoon for the midfield?

[Speedway]

:agree:

I wouldn't count the likes of Ronnie Simpson, Paul Wright, or Gordon Smith as coming within the scope of your OP. Nor Alen Orman or Hartley or Dow - those guys moved on as normal transfers - not fitting in at ER, or transferred to make way (and cash) for other players, or just freakin plundered by bandits like Simpson was.

Dobbie was released by Mowbray as surplus to requirements and as not good enough (well, he probably wasn't at the time), but has gone on to demonstrate that with a wee bit of imaginative and sympathetic managment he could have become quite an asset to us. So IMO he's borderline.

Whiteford was simply released so he could come through to Airdrie (his family's from round here). Robbo and Pettigrew were major goalscorers in their day and Hearts-supporting acquaintances never lost an opportunity of pointing out to me what Hibs had lost by releasing them. Broadfoot's done OK, to be fair. It'd be handy enough to have him at the club now - free Witherspoon for the midfield?

:agree:

Martis is another example of someone who was well into their career at the time.

The reason for asking is that in my time on .net there was been a fair bit of teeth gnashing when we've released the latest wunderkind. The reasons are:

1. Insecurity through not knowing who is coming in and
2. An imagined opinion that somehow this player will 'do a job' if given longer.

Hibs have also taken a fair bit of stick for certain players released (Jinky and Shields come to mind, one because he was a trickytrickster and the other because he halved Hartley in a derby) but their record for getting it right seems remarkable.

[ShanksSaidNo]

possibly Dobbie???
Yeah Dobbie was the one that sprung to my mind. Although he went down the divisions in Scotland, he scored barrel loads of goals at each club and got his move down south!

I honestly think if he had lost the 2 stone that he lost when at QoS when he was at us he could of had a good career at ER.

I'll always remember that night at Hampden against the Huns!

[--------]

:agree:

Martis is another example of someone who was well into their career at the time.

The reason for asking is that in my time on .net there was been a fair bit of teeth gnashing when we've released the latest wunderkind. The reasons are:

1. Insecurity through not knowing who is coming in and
2. An imagined opinion that somehow this player will 'do a job' if given longer.

Hibs have also taken a fair bit of stick for certain players released (Jinky and Shields come to mind, one because he was a trickytrickster and the other because he halved Hartley in a derby) but their record for getting it right seems remarkable.


We haven't done at all badly in this recently, actually. The obvious example is John Robertson, but that's down to Tom Hart and is now ancient history.

Looking at your list -

Jay Shields
Ross Campbell
Ross Chisholm
Lofty McNeill
Sean Lynch
Dermot McCaffrey
Jamie McCluskey
Lee Bailley
Scott Bannerman
Emilio Bottylergy
Alan Reid
Mark Dempsie
Paul Hilland
David Huggins
Kevin Nicol
Davie Nicholls (Always thought that boy was going to make it)
Eric Paton
Graeme Love
Graeme Miller
Greg Miller
Graham Donald

- there are a few players there who looked as though they were capable of doing the business early on but who reached their level and didn't develop further. It shows just how competitive it is at the top level of professional football. (Or even in the SPL.)

And of course, one or two were fairly obviously gash. (Graeme and Greg Miller, anyone? No, thought not.) :devil:

[big-mo]

Not so much haunt us, but Kirk Broadband has done OK.

Though I'm not sure if that was a case where we punted him or he chose to leave.

Broadfoot was from Paisley and was on the Hibs books for about a year but he did not settle living away from home and Hibs allowed him to move back home to St Mirren in 2002.
So it was a case of him requesting a move rather than Hibs punting him.

[Bad Martini]

As I recall Stevie Crawford and Brewster both come back to haunt us a few times, in rapid succession....

To be fair, I know its not quite in line with the question and they didnt go to better things BUT, they did both haunt us to a point (:greengrin)

[TRC]

As I recall Stevie Crawford and Brewster both come back to haunt us a few times, in rapid succession....

To be fair, I know its not quite in line with the question and they didnt go to better things BUT, they did both haunt us to a point (:greengrin)


More like tony Craig haunted us

[Frogga]

Craig Brewster. Scored a few against us after he left...

[ancient hibee]

John Robertson and Gordon Strachan are the all time slip through the fingers losses.

Other transfers not mentioned who went on to great things-Des Bremner,Peter Cormack,Neil Martin,Bobby Johnston and Joe Baker.

[--------]

John Robertson and Gordon Strachan are the all time slip through the fingers losses.

Other transfers not mentioned who went on to great things-Des Bremner,Peter Cormack,Neil Martin,Bobby Johnston and Joe Baker.


You bet. Just imagine..... :rolleyes:


And just to REALLY depress us all - around about the ame time, we failed to sign up Jim Duffy and Craig Levein for our central defence.

All because we couldn't find another £10,000 apiece ....

[JimBHibees]

You bet. Just imagine..... :rolleyes:


And just to REALLY depress us all - around about the ame time, we failed to sign up Jim Duffy and Craig Levein for our central defence.

All because we couldn't find another £10,000 apiece ....

What about David Platt? Were we not quibbling with Crewe about 50k or so. In the next 5 years or so moved about 4 times for transfers totalling approx £20m.

[hibbybrian]

I confidently expect Jack 'RhentaBhoy' Regan to be on here momentarily to deny this, but it is a matter of history that Stein sold Simpson to Celtic for a fee of about £5,000 - derisory even in the 1960's. Simpson was officially going to Celtic to 'help out' with the younger players in their reserves. (At least that's what Stein said at the time.)

I'm not sure just how long after Simpson's departure it was that Stein moved on, but he was no sooner at Parkhead than he had this blinding revelation that Simpson was actually a MUCH better keeper at Parkhead than he had been at Easter Road, and started playing him in the Celtic first team. (Sort of Gordon Strachan/Deek in reverse, if you see what I mean....)

Walter Galbraith resigned on 11th Mar 1964 and Jock Stein officially took over as Manager on 1st April 1964.

Ronnie Simpson's last game was on 28th March 1964 in a 3-1 loss away to Aberdeen (Ernie Winchester scored 1 of the don's goals - reason enough to drop the goalie :greengrin ). Willie Wilson took over as first team goalie and either Jack Reilly or Sandy Keay played in goals for the reserves. So Stein never picked Ronnie Simpson to play any games whilst he was Manager.

According to the League records, Ronnie Simpson signed for Celtc on 3rd September 1964.

Jock resigned on 9th March 1965 with Hibs well placed for a League and Scottish Cup double :grr: :grr:

[CapitalHibs]

Walter Galbraith resigned on 11th Mar 1964 and Jock Stein officially took over as Manager on 1st April 1964.

Ronnie Simpson's last game was on 28th March 1964 in a 3-1 loss away to Aberdeen (Ernie Winchester scored 1 of the don's goals - reason enough to drop the goalie :greengrin ). Willie Wilson took over as first team goalie and either Jack Reilly or Sandy Keay played in goals for the reserves. So Stein never picked Ronnie Simpson to play any games whilst he was Manager.

According to the League records, Ronnie Simpson signed for Celtc on 3rd September 1964.

Jock resigned on 9th March 1965 with Hibs well placed for a League and Scottish Cup double :grr: :grr:



Brian, I've been around a wee bit longer than you but would you agree with me, (although a lot may be down to my youthful optimisim at the time:dunno: )that Hibs under Stein were an absolute stick-on for the double at that time?

[jgl07]

Paul Wright, scored bucketloads against us for St J, and Killie - particularly one game in the cup where he scored a hat trick at ER I seem to remember.

Also Andy Dow - another cup semi revenge.
Paul Wright was sold rather than released if I recall. The cash went towards signing Keith of that ilk. I think that Hibs got the best out of that deal.

Did not Hibs release Craig Dargo as a youngster?

[RickyS]

Paul Wright was sold rather than released if I recall. The cash went towards signing Keith of that ilk. I think that Hibs got the best out of that deal.

Did not Hibs release Craig Dargo as a youngster?

I seem to remember a story about alex miller releasing him to make space for his laddie?:grr:

[hibbybrian]

Brian, I've been around a wee bit longer than you but would you agree with me, (although a lot may be down to my youthful optimisim at the time:dunno: )that Hibs under Stein were an absolute stick-on for the double at that time?

absolute stick-on may be youthful optimism (it is Hibs after all :greengrin) but there is no doubt that it was very achievable :agree:

Wednesday 27th March we lost the cup semi 2-0 at the Pars then beat them in the League 1-0 at ER on the saturday :grr:

At the end of March, we were 2nd in the league, 3 points behind Hearts with a game in hand and with Hearts to play Killie (3rd) on the last day....however

5390 :grr:

the last 4 league matches ended

Dundee 2 Hibs 1
Hibs 0 Celtc 4
Hibs 5 Airdrie 1
Partick 4 Hibs 2

and we finished 4 points off Killie who won the League :grr: :boo hoo: :bitchy:

[CapitalHibs]

absolute stick-on may be youthful optimism (it is Hibs after all :greengrin) but there is no doubt that it was very achievable :agree:

Wednesday 27th March we lost the cup semi 2-0 at the Pars then beat them in the League 1-0 at ER on the saturday :grr:

At the end of March, we were 2nd in the league, 3 points behind Hearts with a game in hand and with Hearts to play Killie (3rd) on the last day....however

5390 :grr:

the last 4 league matches ended

Dundee 2 Hibs 1
Hibs 0 Celtc 4


Hibs 5 Airdrie 1
Partick 4 Hibs 2

and we finished 4 points off Killie who won the League :grr: :boo hoo: :bitchy:

Yeah, it's Hibs - but I've never been more optimistic than at any time in supporting Hibs.

I was at the 0-4 celtc game and they were absolutely unstoppable that night and could have scored double figures. Shankley just couldn't motivate the same players as Stein had and I think the players lost heart in the manner that Stein left:boo hoo::boo hoo:

[O'Rourke3]

Saw the thread and was going for Robbo and Stachan. One player we did release that did not too bad afterwards, Danny Lennon - European glory with Raith Rovers. He did them a decent turn and in a good competative side.

[hibbybrian]

Yeah, it's Hibs - but I've never been more optimistic than at any time in supporting Hibs.

I was at the 0-4 celtc game and they were absolutely unstoppable that night and could have scored double figures. Shankley just couldn't motivate the same players as Stein had and I think the players lost heart in the manner that Stein left:boo hoo::boo hoo:

only 2 weeks earlier, in what was I think was Stein's first home game in charge of Celtc, Hibs beat them 4-2

I was at the 4-0 match with my Grandfather and IIRC Hibs were doing ok - Neil Martin had a penalty saved - and trudging out the ground my Grandfather put the defeat down to Fallon having a brilliant game before Celtc took over - maybe auld age talking there :greengrin

[CapitalHibs]

only 2 weeks earlier, in what was I think was Stein's first home game in charge of Celtc, Hibs beat them 4-2

I was at the 4-0 match with my Grandfather and IIRC Hibs were doing ok - Neil Martin had a penalty saved - and trudging out the ground my Grandfather put the defeat down to Fallon having a brilliant game before Celtc took over - maybe auld age talking there :greengrin

Was hoping you might have a news clipping of the game?

I seem to remember it was pissing down that night and can remember the likes of Murdoch, Lennox, Chalmers, Gemmel and Hughes ripping the Hib's defence a new one!

Of course, that celtc team was the nucleus of the Lisbon Lions which imo was undoubtedly one of the best teams in Scottish Football history.


ps sorry for thread hijack

[GreenPJ]

Surely the Baker Boy has to be the biggest travesty.

[hibbybrian]

Surely the Baker Boy has to be the biggest travesty.

He was wanting an extra fiver a week in wages FFS :grr: :greengrin

[hibbybrian]

Was hoping you might have a news clipping of the game?

Unfortunately I don't, however I have a copy of the report on the 4-2 win at parkhead :greengrin

[--------]

Walter Galbraith resigned on 11th Mar 1964 and Jock Stein officially took over as Manager on 1st April 1964.

Ronnie Simpson's last game was on 28th March 1964 in a 3-1 loss away to Aberdeen (Ernie Winchester scored 1 of the don's goals - reason enough to drop the goalie :greengrin ). Willie Wilson took over as first team goalie and either Jack Reilly or Sandy Keay played in goals for the reserves. So Stein never picked Ronnie Simpson to play any games whilst he was Manager.

According to the League records, Ronnie Simpson signed for Celtc on 3rd September 1964.

Jock resigned on 9th March 1965 with Hibs well placed for a League and Scottish Cup double :grr:


Brian, I've been around a wee bit longer than you but would you agree with me, (although a lot may be down to my youthful optimisim at the time:dunno: )that Hibs under Stein were an absolute stick-on for the double at that time?


absolute stick-on may be youthful optimism (it is Hibs after all :greengrin) but there is no doubt that it was very achievable :agree:

Wednesday 27th March we lost the cup semi 2-0 at the Pars then beat them in the League 1-0 at ER on the saturday :grr:

At the end of March, we were 2nd in the league, 3 points behind Hearts with a game in hand and with Hearts to play Killie (3rd) on the last day....however

5390 :grr:

the last 4 league matches ended

Dundee 2 Hibs 1
Hibs 0 Celtc 4
Hibs 5 Airdrie 1
Partick 4 Hibs 2

and we finished 4 points off Killie who won the League :grr: :boo hoo: :bitchy:


If Stein had stayed, we'd have won one of them at least, probably both.

Not my youthful enthusiasm speaking, but my pessimistic, chronically embittered father's opinion. He knew what he was talking about - he'd seen the Famous Five, Joe Baker and the rest. Rangers and Celtic were comparatively weak that season. We had a more than decent team, with a manager who (until the ****bag upped and left) could do no wrong.

IIRC: Wilson; Simpson and Davis; Stanton, McNamee and Baxter; Scott, Hamilton, Martin, Cormack and Stevenson.

There are no words bad enough to express my opinion of Jock Stein.

[hibbybrian]

If Stein had stayed, we'd have won one of them at least, probably both.

Not my youthful enthusiasm speaking, but my pessimistic, chronically embittered father's opinion. He knew what he was talking about - he'd seen the Famous Five, Joe Baker and the rest. Rangers and Celtic were comparatively weak that season. We had a more than decent team, with a manager who (until the ****bag upped and left) could do no wrong.

IIRC: Wilson; Simpson and Davis; Stanton, McNamee and Baxter; Scott, Hamilton, Martin, Cormack and Stevenson.

There are no words bad enough to express my opinion of Jock Stein.

started the season with John Parke at LB before he was transferred to Sunderland - the front line was a variation of the players you mention plus Pat Quinn

Squad

5393

Many supporters rate Stein as one of the best ever Hibs Managers - and there is no doubting his quality, however the way Celtc sacked Jimmy McGrory their then "legendary" Manager since 1945 (they were 9th in the League at that time) and Stein moved to the Tic so near the end of the season was obviously a contrived move and Stein lost my respect for that. :grr:

Apparently in latter years he lamented leaving Hibs and wondered what he could have achieved by staying to the end of the season :blah:

[CapitalHibs]

started the season with John Parke at LB before he was transferred to Sunderland - the front line was a variation of the players you mention plus Pat Quinn

Squad

5393

Many supporters rate Stein as one of the best ever Hibs Managers - and there is no doubting his quality, however the way Celtc sacked Jimmy McGrory their then "legendary" Manager since 1945 (they were 9th in the League at that time) and Stein moved to the Tic so near the end of the season was obviously a contrived move and Stein lost my respect for that. :grr:

Apparently in latter years he lamented leaving Hibs and wondered what he could have achieved by staying to the end of the season :blah:


Just another example of the OF weakening the opposition:grr:

[hibbybrian]

re-sized attachment

5394

[--------]

started the season with John Parke at LB before he was transferred to Sunderland - the front line was a variation of the players you mention plus Pat Quinn

Squad

5393

Many supporters rate Stein as one of the best ever Hibs Managers - and there is no doubting his quality, however the way Celtc sacked Jimmy McGrory their then "legendary" Manager since 1945 (they were 9th in the League at that time) and Stein moved to the Tic so near the end of the season was obviously a contrived move and Stein lost my respect for that. :grr:

Apparently in latter years he lamented leaving Hibs and wondered what he could have achieved by staying to the end of the season :blah:


Hypocrite. :grr:


(Stein, not you, mate.)