PDA

View Full Version : NHC Is a victory for Arsenal a victory for football?



Pete
23-01-2010, 12:56 AM
Arsenal are now top of the league...and behind them lie clubs with false or ridiculous finances or lots of debt...that's my way of looking at it.

Clubs like Man U and Liverpool are now cheating considering the debt they are now saddled with. It's not their fault but they have sold their souls to the devil and should suffer the consequences...not much to spend and constant worrying about finances.

Spurs have spent and spent but thats what they had to do to be considered a top four club considering their position a few years ago.

However, Arsenal have done things differently over the last five years. They have won nothing but the managers true philosophies are starting to shine through. He stuck by his principles of playing youngsters whenever he could and now these same players have matured and are becoming men. Even if they're not the same players he brings players in and they fit into the mould as if they've always been there! This team are top of the league yet they've had no "strikers" for months! The football has been the best I've seen from any team English for a long time.

I hope this "project" of Wengers prevails because it is all about pure football...the sort you would really pay to watch...and the amazing thing is that it's all on a relative shoestring.

Forget the actual club I'm talking about if you have certain English alliegences and just look at the way the football is being served up at the emirates.

This is "pure" football.

iwasthere1972
23-01-2010, 01:05 AM
If I had a choice of going to the Emirates and watching Arsenal or Old Trafford to see Manchester United there would only be one winner.

Arsenal are a joy to watch with their superb passing skills and guaranteed goalfest. Whereas Man U are pretty boring and predictable.

Would like to see Arsenal lifting the Premier League trophy although I would still expect Wenger to have a moan in his after match interview. :greengrin

Cameron1875
23-01-2010, 01:07 AM
gallas challenge which led to equaliser v bolton on wed wasnt really fair play or pure though was it:wink:

I get what your saying about 'cheating'. Man united are my 2nd team but i'm disgusted at the debt the glazers have got the club in even if there have been a few glory years recently.

The way arsenal play is great and if they win the league so be it. I'm not sure if wenger is working on a shoestring through choice though. Since they have moved to emirates apparantely they have to sell 25 million worth of talent every summer. 2009 toure and adebayor for example (good deals though)

I still don't think they will win the league as they dont have a good enough goalie or quality forward but if united dont win it then they would be my second choice.

David_D
23-01-2010, 01:10 AM
they are by far the best team to watch in The Premiership, and I would love to see them win but I can see the fact that they are relying on youngsters week in week out being there down fall as in the big games they seem to crumble under the pressure. chelsea defeat 3-0 at emirates, 2-1 defeat at man utd after being in the lead, defeat at man city despite playing some brill stuff.

I would like to see them get the title that there play deserves but youth will probably be there down fall

heretoday
23-01-2010, 01:12 AM
Excuse me but I don't see any mention of a certain Chelsea FC here?

Cameron1875
23-01-2010, 01:13 AM
Excuse me but I don't see any mention of a certain Chelsea FC here?

Cheating with debt? Or silky passing football:confused:

3pm
23-01-2010, 01:20 AM
The next 4 league games will - probably - f00k Arsenal. Close but no cigar.

Pete
23-01-2010, 01:27 AM
they are by far the best team to watch in The Premiership, and I would love to see them win but I can see the fact that they are relying on youngsters week in week out being there down fall as in the big games they seem to crumble under the pressure. chelsea defeat 3-0 at emirates, 2-1 defeat at man utd after being in the lead, defeat at man city despite playing some brill stuff.

I would like to see them get the title that there play deserves but youth will probably be there down fall


Arsenal played these two teams off their own park on these days. How they managed to lose is anyones guess.

If there's any justice they will lose and lose heavily at the emirates.

Big Frank
23-01-2010, 01:36 AM
A win for football? Not for me. They cheat same as chelsea man u liverpool.

heretoday
23-01-2010, 04:15 AM
Arsenal will implode as they do. Chelsea will prevail especially when Drog comes back.

ZippytheHibee
23-01-2010, 08:12 AM
Absolutely! Arsenal are dedicated to signing promising young players, attractive football and maintaining the balance sheet every year.

Much rather see them win than Man U and Chelsea.

Beefster
23-01-2010, 08:18 AM
Arsenal are now top of the league...and behind them lie clubs with false or ridiculous finances or lots of debt...that's my way of looking at it.

Clubs like Man U and Liverpool are now cheating considering the debt they are now saddled with. It's not their fault but they have sold their souls to the devil and should suffer the consequences...not much to spend and constant worrying about finances.

Spurs have spent and spent but thats what they had to do to be considered a top four club considering their position a few years ago.

However, Arsenal have done things differently over the last five years. They have won nothing but the managers true philosophies are starting to shine through. He stuck by his principles of playing youngsters whenever he could and now these same players have matured and are becoming men. Even if they're not the same players he brings players in and they fit into the mould as if they've always been there! This team are top of the league yet they've had no "strikers" for months! The football has been the best I've seen from any team English for a long time.

I hope this "project" of Wengers prevails because it is all about pure football...the sort you would really pay to watch...and the amazing thing is that it's all on a relative shoestring.

Forget the actual club I'm talking about if you have certain English alliegences and just look at the way the football is being served up at the emirates.

This is "pure" football.

I like Arsenal as I married a Gooner but they're around £300 million in debt.

hibsbollah
23-01-2010, 08:23 AM
I like Arsenal as I married a Gooner but they're around £300 million in debt.

..which they used to build the stadium, an actual asset that they built. Its not like the ludicrous debts built up by the Glazers, which was due to them taking funds out of the club to pay for their hedge fund losses.

I think the OP makes a good point. (BTW ive got no English allegiances either way, its all about Hibs:greengrin)

Hakim Sar
23-01-2010, 08:41 AM
gallas challenge which led to equaliser v bolton on wed wasnt really fair play or pure though was it:wink:

I get what your saying about 'cheating'. Man united are my 2nd team but i'm disgusted at the debt the glazers have got the club in even if there have been a few glory years recently.

The way arsenal play is great and if they win the league so be it. I'm not sure if wenger is working on a shoestring through choice though. Since they have moved to emirates apparantely they have to sell 25 million worth of talent every summer. 2009 toure and adebayor for example (good deals though)

I still don't think they will win the league as they dont have a good enough goalie or quality forward but if united dont win it then they would be my second choice.

arsenal don't have to sell 25 million pounds worth of players every summer. A lot of the clubs value is held in illiquid assets (such as the highbury square properties) that the club is refusing to sell at knock down price in a recession. if anything this proves the are financially robust enough to ride out a downturn and not be forced in a Market that is unstable.

Any cash required for new players is there but wenger has said for ages that it's dangerous to disrupt the harmony of a settled team.

Add that to alisher usmanov, stan kroenke, david dein and red and White holdings absolutly falling over themselves to invest and they look in good shape!!!

toure - past it
Adebayor - trouble maker
Hleb - past it

doesn't really sound like they were forced to sell really does it?

Bostonhibby
23-01-2010, 10:19 AM
A win for football? Not for me. They cheat same as chelsea man u liverpool.

Watch them a lot and they are one of the dirtiest sides in the league season after season, Their whole psyche is that they never do any wrong, fostered by a cynical manager who does football no favours by what he fails to see or how he interprets events. His handling of Gallas in general and against Bolton in particular sums it up.

He seems to think that less well equipped or talented teams shoud just sit back and let Arsenal play, its a pity the good stuff going forward isn't matched by a better culture and attitude, personally I think it will be 5th year of winning nothing.Chelsea are not my favourite team but I think they have been better than Arsenal in every respect for a while, especially this season.

Stats part wrong - retracted - will check rather than rely on hung over "third party adviser"

lapsedhibee
23-01-2010, 10:35 AM
Watch them a lot and they are one of the dirtiest sides in the league season after season,the stats don't lie.
Link for this, please? I've seen one or two of their players (Eboue, Van Persie) commit bad fouls, but others (Sagna, Clichy) hardly any fouls at all.

Beefster
23-01-2010, 10:56 AM
Watch them a lot and they are one of the dirtiest sides in the league season after season,the stats don't lie.

The stats show that they've been one of the better behaved sides in the EPL over the last decade and are only second to Fulham this season.

Antifa Hibs
23-01-2010, 11:02 AM
Dunno how you can add Man Utd to the cheating list. They are/where the biggest and most successful club in the world and debt free until the Glazers came. :confused:

Most EPL clubs are in massive debt, West Ham £100m, Bolton £70m, Pompey £40m, Liverpool £200m, Chelsea £300m (Until the Russian stepped in and paid it off), Man City £200m, Everton £30m, the list is endless.

I just can't wait for the bubble to burst in England football. BSkyB goes bust, fans are fed up with payinf the £60 ticket prices and they are all ****ed.

robinp
23-01-2010, 11:06 AM
..which they used to build the stadium, an actual asset that they built. Its not like the ludicrous debts built up by the Glazers, which was due to them taking funds out of the club to pay for their hedge fund losses.

I think the OP makes a good point. (BTW ive got no English allegiances either way, its all about Hibs:greengrin)

I thought Man Utd's debts are so high because the Glaziers didn't have the cash to pay the 700m asking price for the club and therefore borrowed the cash from the banks and secured it against asset they were buying....Man Utd. I'm happy to be corrected however!

TheMentalHibees
23-01-2010, 11:33 AM
I thought Man Utd's debts are so high because the Glaziers didn't have the cash to pay the 700m asking price for the club and therefore borrowed the cash from the banks and secured it against asset they were buying....Man Utd. I'm happy to be corrected however!

Thats exactly it. There was strong opposition against the Glazers taking over for a reason.

hibsbollah
23-01-2010, 11:43 AM
I thought Man Utd's debts are so high because the Glaziers didn't have the cash to pay the 700m asking price for the club and therefore borrowed the cash from the banks and secured it against asset they were buying....Man Utd. I'm happy to be corrected however!

Thats correct, when the Glazers first bought Utd. But more recently theyve been increasing the debt to pay for their personal losses, see link
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jan/19/manchester-united-finance-the-glazers (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jan/19/manchester-united-finance-the-glazers)

"It has become increasingly clear since the prospectus was launched last week that its principal purpose is to allow the Glazers to take cash out of United to reduce the amounts they owe in "payments in kind" to hedge funds, which are running at a punitive £14.25% interest. Standing at £175m in the year to 30 June, 2008, the "payments" accrued £25m interest in the year to 30 June, 2009, and so stand now at over £200m."

David Conn

easty
23-01-2010, 11:43 AM
I cant stand Arsenal, its the whole "everyone else is cheating" thing that really bothers me...Arsene Wenger, as good a tactitian as he is, is such a whiney bar steward. I cant stand his attitude, its sometimes pathetic. And its rubbing off on the players, Fabregas especially I think. That incident at Hull where he wasnt even playing but ran on the park at the end like a little brat was what I think of when someone says Arsenal are the true football side.

And they are plenty in debt. So what if it was for a new stadium? money is money wherever it is spent.

As for them bringing through all these youth players...thats cos they have about a billion players on thier books, its more than likely some of them turn into world class players. How would we like it if Arsenal were taking our best young players at 16 and we were getting nothing for them? Cos thats where the majority of these youngsters come from..smaller sides who can't fight off the alure of going to play for Arsenal.

hibsbollah
23-01-2010, 11:47 AM
And they are plenty in debt. So what if it was for a new stadium? money is money wherever it is spent.



It makes a big difference. Getting into (more) debt to build a 60,000 seat stadium which increases your income week in and week out (Arsenal) is very different to getting into (more) debt to pay off debts of your American owners (Man U). Thats obvious.

easty
23-01-2010, 11:52 AM
It makes a big difference. Getting into (more) debt to build a 60,000 seat stadium which increases your income week in and week out (Arsenal) is very different to getting into (more) debt to pay off debts of your American owners (Man U). Thats obvious.

Debt is Debt. Man Utd already have a huge stadium to boost thier matchday income.

But I do have to add......I do really dislike Arsenal.....so my opinions might be a bit bias!

HibbyAndy
23-01-2010, 12:32 PM
There's not a single team in the world id watch before Arsenal , breathtaking jawdropping football.

Obviously except Hibernain ofcourse.

Hibernating (Im a stoopid yam tramp)
23-01-2010, 12:46 PM
I'm annoyed I didn't back them at 6/1 at the start. Looked an obvious enough bet with Man U minus Ronaldo, Liverpool minus Alonso and unable to field Stevie G and Torres regularly, and Chelsea with their managerial upheavels.

Dashing Bob S
23-01-2010, 12:54 PM
Yes, obviously.

jdships
23-01-2010, 01:25 PM
Got to go along with most of the positives written on this thread .
The one BIG thing that puts me off is Arsen "Wasn'y me it was the big boy and he ran away" Wenger.
Just gets up my nose almost as much Alex Ferguson !

:bitchy:

blackhibee
23-01-2010, 08:12 PM
Dunno how you can add Man Utd to the cheating list. They are/where the biggest and most successful club in the world and debt free until the Glazers came. :confused:

Most EPL clubs are in massive debt, West Ham £100m, Bolton £70m, Pompey £40m, Liverpool £200m, Chelsea £300m (Until the Russian stepped in and paid it off), Man City £200m, Everton £30m, the list is endless.

I just can't wait for the bubble to burst in England football. BSkyB goes bust, fans are fed up with payinf the £60 ticket prices and they are all ****ed.

Biggest yes, but most successful? Certainly not in European terms. They're not even the most successful English club in Europe.

blackhibee
23-01-2010, 08:22 PM
I cant stand Arsenal, its the whole "everyone else is cheating" thing that really bothers me...Arsene Wenger, as good a tactitian as he is, is such a whiney bar steward. I cant stand his attitude, its sometimes pathetic. And its rubbing off on the players, Fabregas especially I think. That incident at Hull where he wasnt even playing but ran on the park at the end like a little brat was what I think of when someone says Arsenal are the true football side.

And they are plenty in debt. So what if it was for a new stadium? money is money wherever it is spent.

As for them bringing through all these youth players...thats cos they have about a billion players on thier books, its more than likely some of them turn into world class players. How would we like it if Arsenal were taking our best young players at 16 and we were getting nothing for them? Cos thats where the majority of these youngsters come from..smaller sides who can't fight off the alure of going to play for Arsenal.

Your comments in the first sentence could just as easily apply to Man U and Ferguson who moans and complains about every team they play against if they have the cheek to beat them. Despite their dominance domestically Man U have never gone through a whole season unbeaten,unlike Arsenal. Hope that really grates on them, to me they're far more arrogant than Arsenal have ever been.

HibbyAndy
23-01-2010, 09:04 PM
Your comments in the first sentence could just as easily apply to Man U and Ferguson who moans and complains about every team they play against if they have the cheek to beat them. Despite their dominance domestically Man U have never gone through a whole season unbeaten,unlike Arsenal. Hope that really grates on them, to me they're far more arrogant than Arsenal have ever been.

Oh you can bet that pisses of Ferguson allright :agree:

They will never (anytime soon) do what Arsenal did and go an entire season unbeaten, so take that Fergie ya winkstane.

WeAreHibs
24-01-2010, 05:25 PM
Who's top now?

judas
24-01-2010, 05:54 PM
Arsenal are now top of the league...and behind them lie clubs with false or ridiculous finances or lots of debt...that's my way of looking at it.

Clubs like Man U and Liverpool are now cheating considering the debt they are now saddled with. It's not their fault but they have sold their souls to the devil and should suffer the consequences...not much to spend and constant worrying about finances.

Spurs have spent and spent but thats what they had to do to be considered a top four club considering their position a few years ago.

However, Arsenal have done things differently over the last five years. They have won nothing but the managers true philosophies are starting to shine through. He stuck by his principles of playing youngsters whenever he could and now these same players have matured and are becoming men. Even if they're not the same players he brings players in and they fit into the mould as if they've always been there! This team are top of the league yet they've had no "strikers" for months! The football has been the best I've seen from any team English for a long time.

I hope this "project" of Wengers prevails because it is all about pure football...the sort you would really pay to watch...and the amazing thing is that it's all on a relative shoestring.

Forget the actual club I'm talking about if you have certain English alliegences and just look at the way the football is being served up at the emirates.

This is "pure" football.

Have to say,that is an interesting question.

It would certainly be a victory for entertaining football.

Ultimately though, I go with the old maxim 'Win, win well and win with flair, but always in that order'.

HibeeBigFly
24-01-2010, 06:12 PM
A win for Barcelona is a win for footbal!!!

Rest just copy imo, Fabregas is miles above anyone in that league.

Enjoy watching Arsenal more than anyone else in that league though. Does anyone else rate Bendtner? :confused:

lapsedhibee
24-01-2010, 06:43 PM
Does anyone else rate Bendtner? :confused:
Huddy. Missed 641363930144313715473857 sitters last season (which was 4 more than Adebayor).

Austinho
24-01-2010, 07:00 PM
Oh you can bet that pisses of Ferguson allright :agree:

They will never (anytime soon) do what Arsenal did and go an entire season unbeaten, so take that Fergie ya winkstane.:confused:

Can't see that playing on his mind too much - I'm sure he probably consoles himself with his 11 league titles, 5 FA Cups and 2 Champions League trophies.