Torture Attack Brothers Detained

[hibiedude]

Two brothers who tortured two boys in a "sadistic" attack have been sentenced to an indefinite period of detention.

Sheffield Crown Court heard how the pair, then aged 10 and 11, threatened to kill their nine and 11-year-old victims in Edlington, South Yorkshire.

The brothers, who admitted causing grievous bodily harm, were told they would serve a minimum five years.

During their 90-minute ordeal in April 2009 the victims were stamped on, forced to strip and hit with bricks.

Sentencing the brothers, the judge Mr Justice Keith described their behaviour as "appalling and terrible".

He added: "The fact is this was prolonged, sadistic violence for no reason other than that you got a real kick out of hurting and humiliating them.

The brothers showed no emotion as the sentences were passed. As they were led out of court the mother of their younger victim swore at them and called them "evil".

The elder brother told police he attacked the boys because he had been bored and "there were nowt to do".

The bottom line for the two of you is that I'm sure you both pose a very high risk of serious harm to others."

Yet again another Counci (Doncaster) has had to offer a profuse apology to the victims for deficiencies which left the brothers free to attack.

They will be out in less than 8 years better Educated and with new Identities

[IWasThere2016]

It would be unimaginable to be the parent of the victims .. if that was my child I'd be on a double murder charge.

[heretoday]

There's no mention of the parents of this pair. Same with the Bulger case all those years ago - no mention of the ****bags who brought up these kids.

The boys will probably be given special treatment and with luck will turn out to be decent members of society but that's because they drew attention to themselves by committing these appalling acts.

Is that what it takes?

[Pete]

The one thing that is really angering me about this whole thing is that the blame is now being shifted onto the social services.

They are now even admitting they were to blame in some regards and there were things they could have done to stop the whole thing happening. What sort of society are we living in?

What about personal responsibility?? Whatever happened to that??

The media focus will now be looking for scapegoats within the system and will probably look at the offending family as a product of the defective state system. They'll probably be blameless in a few weeks because they've been "failed by the system" that should have looked after them.

Well the "system" can only do so much. I'm sick of this blame culture we live in...it's always someone elses fault.

[hibiedude]

The one thing that is really angering me about this whole thing is that the blame is now being shifted onto the social services.

They are now even admitting they were to blame in some regards and there were things they could have done to stop the whole thing happening. What sort of society are we living in?

What about personal responsibility?? Whatever happened to that??

The media focus will now be looking for scapegoats within the system and will probably look at the offending family as a product of the defective state system. They'll probably be blameless in a few weeks because they've been "failed by the system" that should have looked after them.

Well the "system" can only do so much. I'm sick of this blame culture we live in...it's always someone elses fault.

I have to agree with your reply

The parents of this pair should be in Jail serving a 5 + year term for neglect, the coming days will show the parents has been scrounging of the system for years and they will have drink or drug issues.

But social services did play a part in this sorry episode from what I've read

[.Sean.]

The one thing that is really angering me about this whole thing is that the blame is now being shifted onto the social services.

They are now even admitting they were to blame in some regards and there were things they could have done to stop the whole thing happening. What sort of society are we living in?

What about personal responsibility?? Whatever happened to that??

The media focus will now be looking for scapegoats within the system and will probably look at the offending family as a product of the defective state system. They'll probably be blameless in a few weeks because they've been "failed by the system" that should have looked after them.

Well the "system" can only do so much. I'm sick of this blame culture we live in...it's always someone elses fault.
Couldn't agree more mate :agree:

[Jack]

Could it be that fault lies with the council because its all very clear in law and guidance what they should and should not do?
Whereas, as we have seen, there are no such laws regarding parenting.
So the media will be able to attack the council knowing it can do so with immunity where if they went for the parents they could get their assess sued.

[oconnors_strip]

There's no mention of the parents of this pair. Same with the Bulger case all those years ago - no mention of the ****bags who brought up these kids.

The boys will probably be given special treatment and with luck will turn out to be decent members of society but that's because they drew attention to themselves by committing these appalling acts.

Is that what it takes?

parents could face prosecution http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/8476363.stm

i hope they do!

[Hibrandenburg]

There's no mention of the parents of this pair. Same with the Bulger case all those years ago - no mention of the ****bags who brought up these kids.
The boys will probably be given special treatment and with luck will turn out to be decent members of society but that's because they drew attention to themselves by committing these appalling acts.

Is that what it takes?

There's 4 real victims in this case and these *******s are the real perps.

[Ed De Gramo]

The pathetic thing is that they'll get new identities and live a cushy life (just like Jamie Bulger's killers did)

Think it's about time they were named & shamed like....

Noticed the Tories will bring back naming & shaming if they get into power (typical political BS)...

[Phil D. Rolls]

I hate to see Social Services getting it in the neck again. But, I think Doncaster SS have already been shown to be unfit for purpose on other cases in the last few years. Given the state of local government in Donny this sort of tragedy was bound to happen.

As for the boys, I think they are evil little ****s. I think the world would be a better place without them.

The parents should be horse whipped IMO.

[Steve-O]

The pathetic thing is that they'll get new identities and live a cushy life (just like Jamie Bulger's killers did)

Think it's about time they were named & shamed like....

Noticed the Tories will bring back naming & shaming if they get into power (typical political BS)...

Only because there are so many people who would want to use violence against them, which is ironic since the reason for that is because these kids have been violent :confused:

[hibsitis]

The pathetic thing is that they'll get new identities and live a cushy life (just like Jamie Bulger's killers did)

Think it's about time they were named & shamed like....

Noticed the Tories will bring back naming & shaming if they get into power (typical political BS)...

So let's get this straight. Because these kids have had a miserable, violent upbringing by people who weren't able to give them the love and direction that makes most of us good human beings, we should condemn them for the rest of their lives?

What they did was despicable but they're products of ****less parenting.

[Ed De Gramo]

So let's get this straight. Because these kids have had a miserable, violent upbringing by people who weren't able to give them the love and direction that makes most of us good human beings, we should condemn them for the rest of their lives?

What they did was despicable but they're products of ****less parenting.

The parents should also be charged, but it'll be tax payers money thats making sure the little ******** live a free, happy life...

the REAL victims may never lead a normal lives again and yet were supposed to have sympathy for the ****....errr nope! Here's hoping someone leaks their names :pray:

[CropleyWasGod]

The parents should also be charged, but it'll be tax payers money thats making sure the little ******** live a free, happy life...

the REAL victims may never lead a normal lives again and yet were supposed to have sympathy for the ****....errr nope! Here's hoping someone leaks their names :pray:

Why?

[Ed De Gramo]

Why?

Why should they be given a fresh start when their victims are suffering, one of them even wishing he had died...:confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

Why should they be given a fresh start when their victims are suffering, one of them even wishing he had died...:confused:

Sorry, you didn't answer the question. Why do you hope their names are leaked?

[hibsitis]

The parents should also be charged, but it'll be tax payers money thats making sure the little ******** live a free, happy life...

the REAL victims may never lead a normal lives again and yet were supposed to have sympathy for the ****....errr nope! Here's hoping someone leaks their names :pray:

So you think that they are completely responsible for their actions and we should take no account of their appalling upbringing? They are just kids who were never loved or taught how to behave. You seem to have a very black and white view of a world which is made up of all sorts of shades of grey.

[RyeSloan]

So let's get this straight. Because these kids have had a miserable, violent upbringing by people who weren't able to give them the love and direction that makes most of us good human beings, we should condemn them for the rest of their lives?

What they did was despicable but they're products of ****less parenting.

So true...having read a wee bit on this it is clear the kids that carried out this attack have been subject to a miserable life themsleves. There is plenty evidence to show that kids from a violent and unloving home that are then put into 'care' and moved around are multiple times more likely to be trouble makers themselves....it's a sad sad case but if all you show kids is hate and violence then why are we surprised when they themselves replicate this??

I agree that the desire to apportion blame is a strong one that soemtimes overrides the fact that people should be responsible for their actions but in this case it is clear these kids were deeply troubled and the Social Services were more than aware of this yet failed to properly monitor or deal with the situation. Caring for individuals in a system is always a hard ask but I think there is definate cause for concern on how the system operated here and just why steps were not taken sooner to intervene to stop these boys doing what they seemed to be on an inevitable course to do.....

[Ed De Gramo]

So you think that they are completely responsible for their actions and we should take no account of their appalling upbringing? They are just kids who were never loved or taught how to behave. You seem to have a very black and white view of a world which is made up of all sorts of shades of grey.

Compared to what? having a view where we can sit back and watch 3 bairns (all younger than the accused) beaten to within an inch of their life, forced to commit sexual acts on each other?

If they had murdered, would you still be saying 'they are just kids'?

[CropleyWasGod]

Compared to what? having a view where we can sit back and watch 3 bairns (all younger than the accused) beaten to within an inch of their life, forced to commit sexual acts on each other?

If they had murdered, would you still be saying 'they are just kids'?

I, for one, would be feeling the same emotions. Utter pity for the parents of the victims, anger towards the parents of the perpetrators AND a measure of sympathy for the perpetrators themselves.

It's a mark of a caring and decent society that we try to rehabilitate those who break the law... whilst punishing them at the same time. This is particularly true when it's kids who do it. Otherwise, we are writing them off to a life where they will be useless citizens, and very likely to offend again and again.

And.. you still haven't answered my question. :wink:

[hibsitis]

Compared to what? having a view where we can sit back and watch 3 bairns (all younger than the accused) beaten to within an inch of their life, forced to commit sexual acts on each other?

If they had murdered, would you still be saying 'they are just kids'?

Yes. Because they would be. Read the reasoning outlined above to explain why these kids are the way they are until you understand it.

[Ed De Gramo]

I, for one, would be feeling the same emotions. Utter pity for the parents of the victims, anger towards the parents of the perpetrators AND a measure of sympathy for the perpetrators themselves.

It's a mark of a caring and decent society that we try to rehabilitate those who break the law... whilst punishing them at the same time. This is particularly true when it's kids who do it. Otherwise, we are writing them off to a life where they will be useless citizens, and very likely to offend again and again.

And.. you still haven't answered my question. :wink:

oh aye yer question....

Get the names leaked so people can take note and make sure they're children are safe (assuming any attempts at rehab have failed)

[CropleyWasGod]

oh aye yer question....

Get the names leaked so people can take note and make sure they're children are safe (assuming any attempts at rehab have failed)

uh huh... and lay them open to every vigilante out there.

[Ed De Gramo]

uh huh... and lay them open to every vigilante out there.

aye but if it happens, it happens....also think they local authorities should have a lot to answer for....the eldest has committed numerous amounts of crimes and all he's had is a slap on the wrist....poor show like

[CropleyWasGod]

aye but if it happens, it happens....also think they local authorities should have a lot to answer for....the eldest has committed numerous amounts of crimes and all he's had is a slap on the wrist....poor show like

On the first point.... no way. Remember the guy in England who had his house attacked by a mob because he was a paediatrician.

Agreed on the second point, though. They have been failed by all those people who should have been helping to shape them. Their parents, the social services, the justice system.

[Steve-O]

The parents should also be charged, but it'll be tax payers money thats making sure the little ******** live a free, happy life...

the REAL victims may never lead a normal lives again and yet were supposed to have sympathy for the ****....errr nope! Here's hoping someone leaks their names :pray:

And whose money would be it be that kept them inside, or paid for the vigilantes that would attack them to be jailed also?

I'm a fan of reading the The Sun, but perhaps you should stop reading it until you gain some perspective on these things.

[hibsitis]

aye but if it happens, it happens....also think they local authorities should have a lot to answer for....the eldest has committed numerous amounts of crimes and all he's had is a slap on the wrist....poor show like

So the taxpayer spends years rehabilitating them and undoing all the awful things they went through as children to the extent that they could become functional members of society and you would be ok with them being murdered?

Just checking.

[hibsbollah]

Interesting report published today suggesting that our children are safer from violence than they have ever been before. (England and Wales only, would imagine Scotland is similar). It only seems like these things happen more regularly now, because the media gets access to the stories and reports them in gruesome detail these days.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8497277.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8497277.stm)
The number of violent deaths among children in England and Wales has fallen by almost 40% since 1974, research has suggested. The Bournemouth University study says the death rate is the fourth lowest in the Western world.

Better monitoring by social workers and improved liaison between health visitors, paediatricians, GPs and police had led to the drop, it said.
The US and Germany had the highest violent death rates, the study found.
The research was shown to the BBC ahead of publication in the British Journal of Social Work later this year.

Researchers examined the number of killings and other - unexplained - violent deaths of children aged 14 and under.
In England and Wales, between 1974 and 2006, the annual number of such deaths fell by 38% from 136 to 84.

As a proportion of the child population, violent death rates almost halved from 32 to 17 per million children.
Prof Colin Pritchard, from the university's school of health and social care, said the findings showed violent death rates among children "had never been lower" and were a "relative success story".
He told BBC News: "Thirty years ago England and Wales were the third or fourth highest child killers in the Western world, but we're now fourth lowest.

"There's been a gradual decline in these terrible events," he said.
The death of 17-month-old Peter Connelly, who suffered more than 50 injuries including a broken back before his death in Haringey in 2007, thrust the role of social workers into the spotlight.

He had been seen by various health and care professionals 60 times before he died.
However, Prof Pritchard said improvements in social care systems, along with a greater focus on child poverty, had helped improve the death rate.
"When these things go wrong it is because very often because the usual good working-together has actually broken down," he said.

Recruitment drive
Last year, the government launched a drive to recruit more social workers.
Ministers feared criticism in the wake of the Baby P case - and another involving the torture of two boys by brothers aged 10 and 11 in Edlington, South Yorkshire - was turning people away from the profession.

The campaign was backed by stars such as actress Samantha Morton and musician Goldie.
The Bournemouth University study examined nine other major developed countries, with most showing similar reductions in child violent death rates.
Spain was the lowest, at four deaths per million children, with Italy on five.

The United States' figure was 47 deaths per million, a 2% rise since the mid 1970s, while Germany's was 21.

Data from Scotland and Northern Ireland was not analysed for the study.

[Phil D. Rolls]

On the first point.... no way. Remember the guy in England who had his house attacked by a mob because he was a paediatrician.

Agreed on the second point, though. They have been failed by all those people who should have been helping to shape them. Their parents, the social services, the justice system.

Did this actually happen? I'm not saying it didn't, and I can believe it could, but it seems really really mad.

[EH6 Hibby]

Did this actually happen? I'm not saying it didn't, and I can believe it could, but it seems really really mad.

Not exactly!


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4719364.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4719364.stm)

[CropleyWasGod]

Not exactly!


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4719364.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4719364.stm)

Thanks for that. That makes sense.

My point, though, is that this is how vigilantes... no matter how emotional they are and driven to "do the right thing".... have the potential to cause even greater tragedy than that which they are trying to avenge.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Thanks for that. That makes sense.

My point, though, is that this is how vigilantes... no matter how emotional they are and driven to "do the right thing".... have the potential to cause even greater tragedy than that which they are trying to avenge.

In fairness, the same could be said of those extremists who force political correctness as a dogma rather than an ideal. (Some do exist).

Just trying to be balanced which is something the right can never be accused of IMHO.


Not exactly!


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4719364.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4719364.stm)

So it's about as true as the guy who walked into a Glasgow job centre and the counter staff misheard him and offered him a job as a tobacconist, when in fact he really wanted to be a tobogannist?

Seems like the PC Brigade can sometimes be happy to believe urban myths too. But at least ours could be true.

The majority of the reactionaries (on the other hand), are nothing more than lick spittle running dogs who will say anything to make a point, and hijack the age of change for simplistic and bigoted reasons. They are the type that froth at the mouth every time they perceive a slight to their warped and sick beliefs.