The "step up" to joining the Old Firm

[Captain Trips]

A phrase that we here so often when a player from a SPL club outwith the OF is about to be signed by them, can he "step up".

I ask is there a true footballing step up and is there improvement in the player, I will argue no on both counts.

What is without doubt in this "step up" is the wages, that for me is the only step up and if that floats a players boat then so be it. Over the past 5 years Hibs in particular have lost key players to the OF wether for free or for good money. Having looked at all the players none have looked any better than they had been before in fact I would argue some have got worse.

Brown, Thomson, Killen etc etc are still or were playing against the same players as before nothing new, all they have now is perhaps different players to pass too whom are of better standard than before therefore possibly making things easier as a pose to testing. They then bring in Europe, and I again question lessons learned in that.

A CL group with OF may contain an AC Milan or a Barcelona, it will also contain apart from the OF team another team of same standard. IMO that is not enough or even close to improve you and it appears it hasnt.

Playing for OF brings more coverage and that can be mistaken for playing better, it may appear Kris Boyd is better but IMO he now gets more chances doesnt make him better than before.

Any Hibs player who wants a challenge and has shown they may have what it takes take a wee look at Flethcher at Burnley. Tough League easy to fail in but he took it on and so far IMO is improving as a player he needs to make better runs than before and show more guile, if he went to Celtic he would not have to have done much on his game. He gets a nice wage too I am sure.

Out of everyone who has left Hibs I would say Fletcher has taken the only true step up. Yes players may go to OF and improve but I think in general better to move away, Garry O'Connor maybe has jury out but I think was right moves for him.

So any Hibbies who are playing now and are threatining greatness, try and fulfill all you can here and then take a true step up against new teams.

[Betty Boop]

A phrase that we here so often when a player from a SPL club outwith the OF is about to be signed by them, can he "step up".

I ask is there a true footballing step up and is there improvement in the player, I will argue no on both counts.

What is without doubt in this "step up" is the wages, that for me is the only step up and if that floats a players boat then so be it. Over the past 5 years Hibs in particular have lost key players to the OF wether for free or for good money. Having looked at all the players none have looked any better than they had been before in fact I would argue some have got worse.

Brown, Thomson, Killen etc etc are still or were playing against the same players as before nothing new, all they have now is perhaps different players to pass too whom are of better standard than before therefore possibly making things easier as a pose to testing. They then bring in Europe, and I again question lessons learned in that.

A CL group with OF may contain an AC Milan or a Barcelona, it will also contain apart from the OF team another team of same standard. IMO that is not enough or even close to improve you and it appears it hasnt.

Playing for OF brings more coverage and that can be mistaken for playing better, it may appear Kris Boyd is better but IMO he now gets more chances doesnt make him better than before.

Any Hibs player who wants a challenge and has shown they may have what it takes take a wee look at Flethcher at Burnley. Tough League easy to fail in but he took it on and so far IMO is improving as a player he needs to make better runs than before and show more guile, if he went to Celtic he would not have to have done much on his game. He gets a nice wage too I am sure.

Out of everyone who has left Hibs I would say Fletcher has taken the only true step up. Yes players may go to OF and improve but I think in general better to move away, Garry O'Connor maybe has jury out but I think was right moves for him.

So any Hibbies who are playing now and are threatining greatness, try and fulfill all you can here and then take a true step up against new teams.

What about Caldwell? He is now a regular for Scotland and has got a move to the Premiership. :greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

Agree about the playing side, but would add that there probably is a need to step up in dealing with 'pressure'. As St T has found, having 40,000 moaning bassas to deal with in the SPL every week is a bit different from the 4,000 he had at Hibs. It's a much louder groan if you make a mistake on the park, and a lot more GTF vitriol if you wander on to 'fans' ' messageboards.

[Captain Trips]

What about Caldwell? He is now a regular for Scotland and has got a move to the Premiership. :greengrin

I question his ability along with lots of others, he for me is still as dodgy as before and for me has not improved much if any. he now though has that chance to improve.

[Captain Trips]

Agree about the playing side, but would add that there probably is a need to step up in dealing with 'pressure'. As St T has found, having 40,000 moaning bassas to deal with in the SPL every week is a bit different from the 4,000 he had at Hibs. It's a much louder groan if you make a mistake on the park, and a lot more GTF vitriol if you wander on to 'fans' ' messageboards.

Yes I had thought of that factor but I dont think it really is that important in terms of becoming a better player, letting down 10,000 or 50,000 kind of all one for me its a pressure that is there at Hibs.

[Captain Trips]

Agree about the playing side, but would add that there probably is a need to step up in dealing with 'pressure'. As St T has found, having 40,000 moaning bassas to deal with in the SPL every week is a bit different from the 4,000 he had at Hibs. It's a much louder groan if you make a mistake on the park, and a lot more GTF vitriol if you wander on to 'fans' ' messageboards.

I will add that lets say that every player we have sold to OF has improved there ability to handle pressure, I dont think its a key element that we can measure, its not clear in any of their play IMO. I am saying have the players improved or do they I think they dont, we at hibs might have players who can handle 100,000 people at them pressure I just dont think it can be measured before actual playing abilty.

[davemcbain]

Using their own argument it is if anything a step down. Any player joining the old firm will only have 2 league games a season against the other weedgie ****, whereas those players who remain in the "minor" league sides will face 4 games a season against the old firm. As the old firm are the peak of the league, halving the number of times you face them halves the challenge.

Equally having all those other fantastic players around you means it is far easier to have an average display lost in the glory of those around you.

The big fish in the small pond will however always be visible and every mistake will be noted and slated.

So to summarise, no-one joins the old phlem to "step up" a level. They join because they are mercenary **** and they have been enticed by 30 pieces of silver.

[Woody1985]

I agree that it actually becomes easier for a player in the SPL moving to one of those two due to the better quality of player.

The biggest pressure IMO is therefore on the manager and board to ensure they maintain that quality, both of which are currently being scrutinised at the OF just now.

What I would say is that if I were a Hibs player on 800/1000 p/w and only the OF came in for me I'd be off in a shot, lack of ambition/patience for a better move? Maybe. Would I give a **** what anyone else thought? No chance.

If I had the chance as a player to go to somewhere else where the challenge would be bigger and help improve I'd be inclined to move there.

What we need to remember is that players don't always have the luxury of waiting around. Their peformances might dip, have a bad injury that means they would have been better moving. Some won't risk that to stay.

[Franck is God]

the step up required is not ability it is workrate and consistency.

The majority of our players and a good number around the SPL would at their best get into either Old Firm team, unfortunately they do not produce this best form/effort every game.

Kenny Miller is the perfect example of this, he is certainly not more talented than Derek Riordan but he realised that if he wants to play at the top level then his application has to match and/or excede his ability.

If our players put in as much effort as he does in every game then that 'step up' wouldn't be nearly as big.

[Dr What If?]

I am no OF lover by any means but I would have to say that I agree that moving to one of these ******ing sores is indeed a 'step up' for any player from any other SPL team.
Some of the reason have been mentioned, pay, size of audience, etc. OF players also play in much more high profile games, finals, Europe, etc.
I also remember an article on IM when he moved to Rangers. He spoke of the infrastructure at Rangers, he spoke of the size of the club, the difference in the medical and training supports. IIRC he referred to Rangers as being much more professional.
Since that article however, we have sold a lot of players and used the money to invest in our own infrastructure and I now like to think the gap is not as big as once was but there is still a gargantuan difference between our turnover and that of the OF, that effects facilities at all levels, pay, conditions, perception and does unfortunately mean a trip along the M8 is still, in the career of a player, a step up.

[heretoday]

I'd be interested to see if the OF can continue to pay the elevated wages for too much longer.

[ancient hibee]

Anyone who thinks that playing a European match against Barcelona is not a step up from an SPL game against -well anybody really-has been following a different sport than me.

[Captain Trips]

Anyone who thinks that playing a European match against Barcelona is not a step up from an SPL game against -well anybody really-has been following a different sport than me.

Of course it is but its 1 game that is by no means a cert, Hibs could get a spot in Europe and get to play a good team. I am saying playing in the odd big game will not improve the player.

[hfc rd]

I think players from outside the OF only move to the OF because of wages and potential big CL matches against Barcelona, Man United, Real Madrid, Chelsea etc. I think players from outside the OF should move to the EPL because there are much better players in that league that they can play against or play alongside them, rather than joining the OF and playing against the same old teams & players every week.

[ancient hibee]

I think players from outside the OF only move to the OF because of wages and potential big CL matches against Barcelona, Man United, Real Madrid, Chelsea etc. I think players from outside the OF should move to the EPL because there are much better players in that league that they can play against or play alongside them, rather than joining the OF and playing against the same old teams & players every week.
But it's much easier to play for the OF and the money is not all that much less than the EPL and that's what players are after.

[Andy74]

But it's much easier to play for the OF and the money is not all that much less than the EPL and that's what players are after.

I also don't think we should apply different standards to footballers than other people in everday jobs.

In my line of work there is more money to be made and certainly much bigger opportunities in London but I don't come from there and have never really fancied it, other than visiting.

What I've done is try to move to the biggest company locally and for me it's a good balance. This is my home, the hibs are close by, the family is close by and so are most of my mates.

Why would footballers be any different?

[Twa Cairpets]

What about Caldwell? He is now a regular for Scotland and has got a move to the Premiership. :greengrin

Gary Caldwell has not stepped up to the Premiership. It is the Premiership that must step up to Gary Caldwell

(with apologies the the Gary Caldwell twitter page)

[Captain Trips]

I also don't think we should apply different standards to footballers than other people in everday jobs.

In my line of work there is more money to be made and certainly much bigger opportunities in London but I don't come from there and have never really fancied it, other than visiting.

What I've done is try to move to the biggest company locally and for me it's a good balance. This is my home, the hibs are close by, the family is close by and so are most of my mates.

Why would footballers be any different?

They are different because you cant compare our 9-5 Jobs to theirs. With this post I was discussing do players improve, what players say is that they are hoping to improve etc. I have not heard a player join the OF saying its local and its more money, they toe the line its a great opportunity etc nothing really to do with location though I am sure its a factor.

My point is if players are genuine in wanting to become better and have attracted interest from EPL, IMO that is where they should go.

[Andy74]

They are different because you cant compare our 9-5 Jobs to theirs. With this post I was discussing do players improve, what players say is that they are hoping to improve etc. I have not heard a player join the OF saying its local and its more money, they toe the line its a great opportunity etc nothing really to do with location though I am sure its a factor.

My point is if players are genuine in wanting to become better and have attracted interest from EPL, IMO that is where they should go.

Sorry, but why can't you compare it?

I'd get far better experience working in London and would probably improve my skills and certainly my CV. Moving when I did to the company I have was a great opportunity as well and from where I was I am working with top people and but it doesn't match overall what I could have got by leaving the country.

I'm attached to where I live though and can enjoy that and being with a good company working with good people.

I don't see any reason why footballers are a different breed that would all feel inclined to go away from home. Some of us are like that, some aren't.

[Captain Trips]

Sorry, but why can't you compare it?

I'd get far better experience working in London and would probably improve my skills and certainly my CV. Moving when I did to the company I have was a great opportunity as well and from where I was I am working with top people and but it doesn't match overall what I could have got by leaving the country.

I'm attached to where I live though and can enjoy that and being with a good company working with good people.

I don't see any reason why footballers are a different breed that would all feel inclined to go away from home. Some of us are like that, some aren't.

That is based on your thoughts on what you want, I am generalising footballers as maybe are you, I am generalising into a manner that I think is right and mindset I think is right, you are doing the same perhaps.

I 100% do not think a footballers job compares to a 9-5 job at all.

[Andy74]

That is based on your thoughts on what you want, I am generalising footballers as maybe are you, I am generalising into a manner that I think is right and mindset I think is right, you are doing the same perhaps.

I 100% do not think a footballers job compares to a 9-5 job at all.

Yes, and what I am saying is many people think like me, many don't, there's no point in us saying to footballers that to be ambitious or to test yourself you need to go to England.

Plenty will feel that a big club still close to home, their family and their mates will do them just fine.

You could say it's just not right that I don't have the midset to go and live and work in London so for me footballers are human the same as the rest of us and take in a large number of factors where they decide to live and work.

Can you give me any reasons that a footballer should be different to anyone else in this regard?

[Captain Trips]

Yes, and what I am saying is many people think like me, many don't, there's no point in us saying to footballers that to be ambitious or to test yourself you need to go to England.

Plenty will feel that a big club still close to home, their family and their mates will do them just fine.

You could say it's just not right that I don't have the midset to go and live and work in London so for me footballers are human the same as the rest of us and take in a large number of factors where they decide to live and work.

Can you give me any reasons that a footballer should be different to anyone else in this regard?

Yes its irrelevant though what they actually think though IMO you need to play in a different league to improve is what I think. Scot Brown could say to me he thinks Celtic could make him better I would disagree with him.

I didnt say footballers felt different but IMO most make decisions based on things the 9-5 does not have.