Mountain climbing in the highlands in this weather

[poolman]

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2789129/The-killer-thaw.html

Bloody madness and totally irresponsible if you ask me

Why anybody would want to do this at this time of year especially when they know the conditions and then risk the lives of the rescue services who come to their aid is criminal if you ask me

[Phil D. Rolls]

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2789129/The-killer-thaw.html

Bloody madness and totally irresponsible if you ask me

Why anybody would want to do this at this time of year especially when they know the conditions and then risk the lives of the rescue services who come to their aid is criminal if you ask me

I suppose it wouldn't be fun if it wasn't dangerous. From what I've heard the rescue teams are mountaineers themselves and don't make judgements.

I get frightened climbing the Waverley steps myself.

[weecounty hibby]

I hae no problems with guys climbing in any weather and have a couple of mates who do it and one who is in the mountain rescue. What they should be made to do is take out some kind of insurance policy to pay for the use of helicopters, 4x4s, and the time taken off work by the volunteers. This can run to tens of thousands of pounds for one rescue.

[hibiedude]

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2789129/The-killer-thaw.html

Bloody madness and totally irresponsible if you ask me

Why anybody would want to do this at this time of year especially when they know the conditions and then risk the lives of the rescue services who come to their aid is criminal if you ask me

They were all well equipped, highly experienced and European accredited climbers.

The words Deadly Thaw was the reason for the avalanche.

These are the type of guys that we depend on when we get stuck so your comments are unfair in my opinion

The Lochaber Mountain Rescue Team are all highly experienced and European accredited climbers that's why they do the job that they do, how do you think they got to this level ?

This wasn't 3 numpty's on a mountain scenario

[Scouse Hibee]

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2789129/The-killer-thaw.html

Bloody madness and totally irresponsible if you ask me

Why anybody would want to do this at this time of year especially when they know the conditions and then risk the lives of the rescue services who come to their aid is criminal if you ask me

I can see where you're coming from but the mountain rescue teams are experienced climbers who volunteer their services. They don't judge similar experienced well equipped climbers as being stupid for continuing their endeavours in such conditions. The team normally based from Leuchars even spent their christmas in the mountains to be ready for such rescues.
What is irresponsible is the ill equipped and inexperienced idiots who venture out in such conditions where rescue becomes inevitable, just like the two idiots who were rescued over Christmas dressed in tracksuits and trainers with no equipment what so ever.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I can see where you're coming from but the mountain rescue teams are experienced climbers who volunteer their services. They don't judge similar experienced well equipped climbers as being stupid for continuing their endeavours in such conditions. The team normally based from Leuchars even spent their christmas in the mountains to be ready for such rescues.
What is irresponsible is the ill equipped and inexperienced idiots who venture out in such conditions where rescue becomes inevitable, just like the two idiots who were rescued over Christmas dressed in tracksuits and trainers with no equipment what so ever.

:agree:

[Twa Cairpets]

I hae no problems with guys climbing in any weather and have a couple of mates who do it and one who is in the mountain rescue. What they should be made to do is take out some kind of insurance policy to pay for the use of helicopters, 4x4s, and the time taken off work by the volunteers. This can run to tens of thousands of pounds for one rescue.

The insurance angle is one that the Mountain Rescue Service vehemently oppose.

Reasons:

1) If people take out insurance, they will potentially be more willing to use it rather than ensure they are equipped properly/look after themselves etc. I have recently read a book called Cairngorm John by John Allen of Cairngorm Mountain Rescue - the example he gives is if someone, say, breaks an arm on the hills at the minute - painful and uncomfortable but probably not life threatening, they will walk out. If theyre insured, they'll think "well, ive paid for it", and call in a 'copter.
2) People will go onto the hills if they are uninsured. If they get into difficulties or have an accident, they may be reluctant to call it in due to the potential cost involved - almost certainly increasing fatalities on the mountains.
3) Imposing an insurance requirement will discourage people from going to the hills. Would kayakers need insurance? Potholers? Ramblers? Could an insured parent take an uninsured kid out for a taste?

I've been going hillwalking in the highlands for years. I usually go solo, am well equipped and know what I'm doing. I do however have a healthy respect for the mountains and how conditions can change. I think yesterdays tragedies happened to guys who know what they are doing, and they were terrible accidents. But that is what they were - accidents. I hope there are no political knee-jerk reactions demanding limited access, insurance etc from politicians, as that would be a very inappropriate legacy for these poor guys to leave.

[Wembley67]

very very good post twocarpets

[s.a.m]

I once heard an interview with a mountain rescue person on the subject, and he said that they regarded it as important on-going training / skills work. :dunno:


Incidentally, I once did a fly-fishing lesson up North with a ghillie (?) who claimed to have helped establish the military Mountain Rescue team while he was doing his National Service. Interesting stories to tell.

[ginger_rice]

The insurance angle is one that the Mountain Rescue Service vehemently oppose.

Reasons:

1) If people take out insurance, they will potentially be more willing to use it rather than ensure they are equipped properly/look after themselves etc. I have recently read a book called Cairngorm John by John Allen of Cairngorm Mountain Rescue - the example he gives is if someone, say, breaks an arm on the hills at the minute - painful and uncomfortable but probably not life threatening, they will walk out. If theyre insured, they'll think "well, ive paid for it", and call in a 'copter.
2) People will go onto the hills if they are uninsured. If they get into difficulties or have an accident, they may be reluctant to call it in due to the potential cost involved - almost certainly increasing fatalities on the mountains.
3) Imposing an insurance requirement will discourage people from going to the hills. Would kayakers need insurance? Potholers? Ramblers? Could an insured parent take an uninsured kid out for a taste?

I've been going hillwalking in the highlands for years. I usually go solo, am well equipped and know what I'm doing. I do however have a healthy respect for the mountains and how conditions can change. I think yesterdays tragedies happened to guys who know what they are doing, and they were terrible accidents. But that is what they were - accidents. I hope there are no political knee-jerk reactions demanding limited access, insurance etc from politicians, as that would be a very inappropriate legacy for these poor guys to leave.

:agree::agree:

Just caught up with this thread...I do a lot of hillwalking both summer and winter, I have many many years experience, I hold qualifications which allow me to lead expeditions in the hills, when I go out on the hills I am always properly equipped, I plan my routes and escape routes properly, I understand the risks and the potential dangers.

In order to get to a certain level of competency you need to face the conditions at some time which could be troublesome, this can on occasions lead to problems I've been caught in whiteouts on several occasions, and as was seen in Glencoe last year, as well as the recent tragedy, sometimes lives can be lost.


The RN and RAF search and rescue flights prime purpose in life is to rescue downed pilots either on land or at sea, and operating in their secondary role as civilian rescue services gives them constant training for this role and as has been stated before one which they gratefully take on.

Every time there is loss of life in the hills we get the same outcry cw quotes such as "Bloody madness and totally irresponsible if you ask me" and "they should be made to take out insurance"

Now lets get things in perspective, out of the huge number of people out (both walkers and climbers), on our hills every week very very few need to be rescued, contrast this with the number of people killed on our roads each week, or the number of people hospitalised after a visit to their local for a "wee swally" the cost to the NHS and Emergency services for these two examples far outweighs the costs annually for the mountain rescue services.

[ginger_rice]

I once heard an interview with a mountain rescue person on the subject, and he said that they regarded it as important on-going training / skills work. :dunno:
.

It's true when I served in the Royal Navy on one ship my mate was a winchman on the SAR helicopters, IIRC the only RN winchman ever to be awarded two Queens Gallantry Medals for rescues he took part in, he always looked upon mountain rescue work as an opportunity to keep his hand in.

[Dashing Bob S]

:agree::agree:

Just caught up with this thread...I do a lot of hillwalking both summer and winter, I have many many years experience, I hold qualifications which allow me to lead expeditions in the hills, when I go out on the hills I am always properly equipped, I plan my routes and escape routes properly, I understand the risks and the potential dangers.

In order to get to a certain level of competency you need to face the conditions at some time which could be troublesome, this can on occasions lead to problems I've been caught in whiteouts on several occasions, and as was seen in Glencoe last year, as well as the recent tragedy, sometimes lives can be lost.


The RN and RAF search and rescue flights prime purpose in life is to rescue downed pilots either on land or at sea, and operating in their secondary role as civilian rescue services gives them constant training for this role and as has been stated before one which they gratefully take on.

Every time there is loss of life in the hills we get the same outcry cw quotes such as "Bloody madness and totally irresponsible if you ask me" and "they should be made to take out insurance"

Now lets get things in perspective, out of the huge number of people out (both walkers and climbers), on our hills every week very very few need to be rescued, contrast this with the number of people killed on our roads each week, or the number of people hospitalised after a visit to their local for a "wee swally" the cost to the NHS and Emergency services for these two examples far outweighs the costs annually for the mountain rescue services.

Nutshell.:top marks

[--------]

The insurance angle is one that the Mountain Rescue Service vehemently oppose.

Reasons:

1) If people take out insurance, they will potentially be more willing to use it rather than ensure they are equipped properly/look after themselves etc. I have recently read a book called Cairngorm John by John Allen of Cairngorm Mountain Rescue - the example he gives is if someone, say, breaks an arm on the hills at the minute - painful and uncomfortable but probably not life threatening, they will walk out. If theyre insured, they'll think "well, ive paid for it", and call in a 'copter.
2) People will go onto the hills if they are uninsured. If they get into difficulties or have an accident, they may be reluctant to call it in due to the potential cost involved - almost certainly increasing fatalities on the mountains.
3) Imposing an insurance requirement will discourage people from going to the hills. Would kayakers need insurance? Potholers? Ramblers? Could an insured parent take an uninsured kid out for a taste?

I've been going hillwalking in the highlands for years. I usually go solo, am well equipped and know what I'm doing. I do however have a healthy respect for the mountains and how conditions can change. I think yesterdays tragedies happened to guys who know what they are doing, and they were terrible accidents. But that is what they were - accidents. I hope there are no political knee-jerk reactions demanding limited access, insurance etc from politicians, as that would be a very inappropriate legacy for these poor guys to leave.


:top marks

The son of a former colleague was a chopper pilot flying Sea Kings on SAR operations and he was very clear that nothing could train him and his crew as well as a mountain rescue. I'm not a mountaineer but I understand that the conditions just now are very unpredictable; these guys clearly equipped themselves properly and knew where they were and what they were doing.

IMO we need to preserve people's freedom to do what they're drawn to without nannying them. At what point does a simple walk in the hills (properly equipped and planned and all) become a mountaineering expedition demanding full insurance and notification of the authorities and all?

Maybe everyone should just have a GPS computer chip implanted at birth, and then Bib Brither and Supernanny'll know where we are and what we're doing all the time - and be able to stop us as soon as we take the tiniest risk or begin to enjoy ourselves even the teeniest, weeniest bit?

[lapsedhibee]

Maybe everyone should just have a GPS computer chip implanted at birth, and then Bib Brither and Supernanny'll know where we are and what we're doing all the time - and be able to stop us as soon as we take the tiniest risk or begin to enjoy ourselves even the teeniest, weeniest bit?
Fair enough going mountaineering in mid winter in the Cairngorms - but some people get their jollies going to fitba matches when the pavements are a bit slippy! Where will this reckless thrill-seeking end? :grr:

[Jonnyboy]

I suppose it wouldn't be fun if it wasn't dangerous. From what I've heard the rescue teams are mountaineers themselves and don't make judgements.

I get frightened climbing the Waverley steps myself.

Well take someone with you next time :wink::greengrin