What a stupid selfish woman

[poolman]

OK it's obviously not nice to have a disabled child but this is just plain selfish

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/8427762.stm

[Speedy]

I agree. I also feel sorry for the child involved because she will probably, wrongly, be viewed as spoiling it for everyone else.

[lapsedhibee]

I once heard a profoundly deaf couple on the tellybox say that they hoped their child would be born deaf.

Talk about small minds.

[Twa Cairpets]

I saw this on the news last night.

The woman is militantly defensive of her kid, which is fair enough, but in this case, she's just wrong. Her action is going to set back real action against discrimination - eventually this will be remembered as Daily Mail/Express/Sun "political correctness gone mad" story, although in fairness to the MP he was saying the school should think again.

[Jack]

I think that selfish cow is still riddled with guilt about having given birth to a child that’s disabled and is having problems coping with the fact her child cannot do the same as the able bodied children.

Will the school netball team be disbanded because she cannot play?

Should all football be cancelled because she is not ‘gifted’ with the ability to take part?

Should the Olympics be cancelled for the same reason?

Her daughter will be able to contribute to society and society already does lots to help and appreciate what disabled people can give. Unfortunately [maybe, maybe not] her daughter and tens of thousands of others will never be decent footballers; or Olympians or in fact able to take part in school activities.

Heart breaking, maybe, but she’d better get used to it.

[Hibs Class]

I saw her on the news also - riddled with hate and resentment, it seemed to me. I suspect she's a very lonely and sad person.

[Woody1985]

I think that selfish cow is still riddled with guilt about having given birth to a child that’s disabled and is having problems coping with the fact her child cannot do the same as the able bodied children.

Will the school netball team be disbanded because she cannot play?

Should all football be cancelled because she is not ‘gifted’ with the ability to take part?

Should the Olympics be cancelled for the same reason?

Her daughter will be able to contribute to society and society already does lots to help and appreciate what disabled people can give. Unfortunately [maybe, maybe not] her daughter and tens of thousands of others will never be decent footballers; or Olympians or in fact able to take part in school activities.

Heart breaking, maybe, but she’d better get used to it.

:agree:

The school should tell her to GTF and the trip is going ahead.

Her doctor should have a word with her and the school could arrange another trip for the child on the same day and/or arrange something that they can all take part in a later date.

People should not be prevented from realising their potential due to it being greater than anothers, regardless of circumstance.

Pedant alert, should the Paralympics be cancelled because I can't take part?

Some people need to join the real world.

[col02]

I think that selfish cow is still riddled with guilt about having given birth to a child that’s disabled and is having problems coping with the fact her child cannot do the same as the able bodied children.

Will the school netball team be disbanded because she cannot play?

Should all football be cancelled because she is not ‘gifted’ with the ability to take part?

Should the Olympics be cancelled for the same reason?

Her daughter will be able to contribute to society and society already does lots to help and appreciate what disabled people can give. Unfortunately [maybe, maybe not] her daughter and tens of thousands of others will never be decent footballers; or Olympians or in fact able to take part in school activities.

Heart breaking, maybe, but she’d better get used to it.


:agree:

The school should tell her to GTF and the trip is going ahead.

Her doctor should have a word with her and the school could arrange another trip for the child on the same day and/or arrange something that they can all take part in a later date.

People should not be prevented from realising their potential due to it being greater than anothers, regardless of circumstance.

Pedant alert, should the Paralympics be cancelled because I can't take part?

Some people need to join the real world.

:agree: Sadly I have come to expect this sort of stance from local councils. They are there to serve the community as a whole not just one person as in this case. In this case they have let down 70 children for the sake of one child who is not able to participate due to her disability. Bit like the nonsense in Edinburgh where you need a 100% reply rate to be allowed to take pictures of your own kid at their nativity play.

It is not a case of PC gone mad just some baffling decisions that have taken common sense out of the equation.

[heretoday]

She runs the risk of making her daughter the most unpopular girl in the school. Is it worth it?

[Phil D. Rolls]

You just have to wonder how this got to this stage. Without knowing the personalities involved, it is difficult to guage who is at fault. It seems to me though, that the school did not use common sense here, as well as ignoring clear legal rules about inclusion.

What caring teacher would want to organise a trip where one of their pupils couldn't go along. What mother would not try to see sense about what can be provided.

I get the impression there is a clash of personalities as much as anything else, and heads should be knocked together. The kids can't be happy with the situation. The whole thing seems like a very nasty business IMO.

Then again, maybe she is just a nob, who is trying to change the world round her child, rather than helping her child adapt to the world.

[Golden Bear]

And to take things to ridiculous extremes - should the paralympic games be open to all athletes on the grounds that it will be discrimatory not to include everyone?

[lapsedhibee]

Will the school netball team be disbanded because she cannot play?

Should all football be cancelled because she is not ‘gifted’ with the ability to take part?

Should the Olympics be cancelled for the same reason?

Her daughter will be able to contribute to society and society already does lots to help and appreciate what disabled people can give. Unfortunately [maybe, maybe not] her daughter and tens of thousands of others will never be decent footballers; or Olympians or in fact able to take part in school activities.

Heart breaking, maybe, but she’d better get used to it.

No exams should ever be set unless everyone can pass them with equal ease. :agree:

[ancient hibee]

Some absolutely nauseating comments on here.The school has accepted the child as a pupil but only wants to allow her to participate on the school's terms-so she will be an outsider.Why is the girl not going to the centre with help?All children welcome except the disabled?Is that how we should live?As for those on here calling the mother names and besmirching her character -you should be ashamed.

[Leicester Fan]

Some absolutely nauseating comments on here.The school has accepted the child as a pupil but only wants to allow her to participate on the school's terms-so she will be an outsider.Why is the girl not going to the centre with help?All children welcome except the disabled?Is that how we should live?As for those on here calling the mother names and besmirching her character -you should be ashamed.
A bit OTT don't you think. When I has at school I was crap at sport, I didn't sue the school because I wasn't in the football team.
Are you suggesting that all the pupils in the school should be confined to chairs all day for the sake of equality?

[Dashing Bob S]

The woman in question came over as very hateful and bitter, and a bit of a nutcase. I feel sorry for her child.

But the council shouldn't be caving into the spiteful, self-centred behaviour of the local headbanger.

I hate to say it, but it literally is poli...no I can't bring myself to finish.

[J-C]

The only way ruind this as far as I can see is to take the disabled girl along to the trip and then tell her she's doing the same as all the other kids, rock climging, kayaking, etc. Then tell the mum, " well we did involve your child as much as we could but unfortunately due to her disablity, she was naff at most things and struggled."

[Phil D. Rolls]

A bit OTT don't you think. When I has at school I was crap at sport, I didn't sue the school because I wasn't in the football team.
Are you suggesting that all the pupils in the school should be confined to chairs all day for the sake of equality?

I think it's a wee bit different being disabled and being crap at sport.

[ancient hibee]

A bit OTT don't you think. When I has at school I was crap at sport, I didn't sue the school because I wasn't in the football team.
Are you suggesting that all the pupils in the school should be confined to chairs all day for the sake of equality?

This is a kid who will have a short painful life and you are suggesting it's the same as you not being able to kick a ball-you should take a look at yourself.

[Leicester Fan]

This is a kid who will have a short painful life and you are suggesting it's the same as you not being able to kick a ball-you should take a look at yourself.
And that's a terrible thing but it's nobody's fault.Why should everybody else have to suffer as well?

[Jack]

Some absolutely nauseating comments on here.The school has accepted the child as a pupil but only wants to allow her to participate on the school's terms-so she will be an outsider.Why is the girl not going to the centre with help?All children welcome except the disabled?Is that how we should live?As for those on here calling the mother names and besmirching her character -you should be ashamed.

I think you're a bit OTT too.

The school has accepted her*, basically local authorities / schools have no option. But there has to be a line though where reasonableness takes over, as there is in disability legislation.

The school has arranged a trip to, probably Laganlea and they probably do it every year. Its an outdoor centre where, as others have said, some pretty strenuous physical activities take place. My own 3 kids, all able bodied, found it hard going but loved it. It gave them the opportunity to try new things in a different environment.

I have every sympathy that this girl who cannot, through no fault of her own, take part in these activities but it shouldn’t stop the other kids who are capable of going along. There are some things some people just cannot do, the mother in this case has just got to used to it.


* in our day this wouldn’t have come about as anyone with even moderate disabilities would have been in their own ‘special school’. I think its better for them to have the ‘right’ to be in mainstream schools but with this ‘right’ comes the responsibility of accepting not everything can be the same for all pupils.


I don’t think you could have seen the mother on the telly last night but that’s exactly how she’s came across.

[Phil D. Rolls]

And that's a terrible thing but it's nobody's fault.Why should everybody else have to suffer as well?

Is the disabled child worth less than the rest? The class is a group, and part of her learning is to feel that she has some validity in the group.

Surely the ideal solution is one in which the whole class - of which the kid is a member can take part? I find it hard to believe the kid couldn't have gone along, and not taken part in the physical activities, but that the programme was tailored so that she could at least feel included.

As I said earlier, I think a wee bit of common sense from all parties has been lacking in this whole situation.

[IndieHibby]

I saw this on the news also, and we commented along the lines of most other posters here.

The mother's argument, imo, can be simplified into:

"If my child can't have it, no child can have it"

The school probably spends, rightly, a great deal of money integrating this girl into the mainstream environment. So it is erroneous to say that the school should ONLY do something that includes all the children at once.

There are many, many advatages to able-bodied children of a trip like this. Why should they miss out?

As long as the needs of the disabled child are met and there are other similar opportunities for her, what's the problem?:confused:

[To blame the council for this is way off the mark. They cannot risk their meagre budgets challenging court cases like this]

[IndieHibby]

Is the disabled child worth less than the rest? The class is a group, and part of her learning is to feel that she has some validity in the group.

Surely the ideal solution is one in which the whole class - of which the kid is a member can take part? I find it hard to believe the kid couldn't have gone along, and not taken part in the physical activities, but that the programme was tailored so that she could at least feel included.

As I said earlier, I think a wee bit of common sense from all parties has been lacking in this whole situation.

What have 'feelings of worth' got to do with anything? I would sincerely doubt the strength of character of someone who spent the entire year being 'included', at considerable expense, who would then let that entire year of inclusion be destroyed because she couldn't attend a trip that she was fundementally incapable of partaking in.

The analogy that draws out the subtext here is if we compare it to P.E. lessons - should everyone at the school miss out on P.E. because she can't do it?

How is this different from the trip?

[J-C]

Is the disabled child worth less than the rest? The class is a group, and part of her learning is to feel that she has some validity in the group.

Surely the ideal solution is one in which the whole class - of which the kid is a member can take part? I find it hard to believe the kid couldn't have gone along, and not taken part in the physical activities, but that the programme was tailored so that she could at least feel included.

As I said earlier, I think a wee bit of common sense from all parties has been lacking in this whole situation.


FR, I think the child was being taken and activities to suit her were made avaliable but the mother in her wisdom thought they were all discriminating against her.


This trip has been going on annually it says, and usually kids have to be a certain age before going on it, so it's not as if the school deliberately arranged it to p1ss off the mother and child.

[Phil D. Rolls]

What have 'feelings of worth' got to do with anything? I would sincerely doubt the strength of character of someone who spent the entire year being 'included', at considerable expense, who would then let that entire year of inclusion be destroyed because she couldn't attend a trip that she was fundementally incapable of partaking in.

The analogy that draws out the subtext here is if we compare it to P.E. lessons - should everyone at the school miss out on P.E. because she can't do it?

How is this different from the trip?

Very good point there. There is a common sense solution, and it seems the mother wasn't having it. I hope she is condemned by anti discrimination campaigners, as she has not done anyone any good.


FR, I think the child was being taken and activities to suit her were made avaliable but the mother in her wisdom thought they were all discriminating against her.


This trip has been going on annually it says, and usually kids have to be a certain age before going on it, so it's not as if the school deliberately arranged it to p1ss off the mother and child.

Thanks for clarifying that. Sounds like the mother is a damaged woman.

[Jack]

Is the disabled child worth less than the rest? The class is a group, and part of her learning is to feel that she has some validity in the group.

Surely the ideal solution is one in which the whole class - of which the kid is a member can take part? I find it hard to believe the kid couldn't have gone along, and not taken part in the physical activities, but that the programme was tailored so that she could at least feel included.

As I said earlier, I think a wee bit of common sense from all parties has been lacking in this whole situation.

Sounds as though everyone’s having a go at you here :wink:

If you’ve been to the place I think you'd realise that it not wheelchair friendly; its up mountains; hillside tracks, canoes, aerial runways and the like.

If it had been a trip to the local swimming baths or somewhere like Dynamic Earth then I’m sure the girl would be included but unless we’re going to make walking around the country / hillsides / mountainsides wheelchair friendly then its always going to be the case people in wheelchairs will, for the most part, not be able to take part in such activities. Its just not possible to make everything available for everyone.

[Killiehibbie]

What happens to normal PE in this school every week when the wheelchair bound child can't take part?

[ArabHibee]

I think you're a bit OTT too.

The school has accepted her*, basically local authorities / schools have no option. But there has to be a line though where reasonableness takes over, as there is in disability legislation.

The school has arranged a trip to, probably Laganlea and they probably do it every year. Its an outdoor centre where, as others have said, some pretty strenuous physical activities take place. My own 3 kids, all able bodied, found it hard going but loved it. It gave them the opportunity to try new things in a different environment.

I have every sympathy that this girl who cannot, through no fault of her own, take part in these activities but it shouldn’t stop the other kids who are capable of going along. There are some things some people just cannot do, the mother in this case has just got to used to it.


* in our day this wouldn’t have come about as anyone with even moderate disabilities would have been in their own ‘special school’. I think its better for them to have the ‘right’ to be in mainstream schools but with this ‘right’ comes the responsibility of accepting not everything can be the same for all pupils.

I don’t think you could have seen the mother on the telly last night but that’s exactly how she’s came across.

:top marksI was going to post along the same lines as the bit in bold but Jack's said it a lot more eloquently than I can!

[NaeTechnoHibby]

Are these trips not paid for?

If so, then why did the mother pay for a trip that trip, which would have been fully detailed :agree:

She would have known that these wre out of her child's range of activities and aking her to film them was a huge responsibilty :agree:

I feel sorry for the kid :agree:

[Don-hibee]

Ok, As the mother of a child with disabilities (as I like to phrase it), My child will be going on a week long trip with his primary school (mainstream), there WILL be activities in which he cannot participate (myself and his dad have explained this to him) also will have to eat soya free foods. Are we stopping him or complaining that he will not be able to do the same activities as his friends NO, We feel this is a great opportunity for him mentally and socially and to have fun with his mates.

Thats all I wanted to say.

Merry Christmas to all.




Oh and I will be anxious as any other parent would be for their childs first time away from home alone.

[hibsdaft]

But the council shouldn't be caving into the spiteful, self-centred behaviour of the local headbanger.

and risk wasting thousands of pounds of Council Tax on stupid legal fees if their decision gets challenged?

between a rock and a hard place imo

complicated issue. i wouldn't be too quick to judge the woman even if she is wrong and possibly misdirecting her anger/ frustration.

well meaning but possibly simplistic legislators are probably the cheif villains here, but thats change for you - there will always be complications that need to be overcome...

[NaeTechnoHibby]

Ok, As the mother of a child with disabilities (as I like to phrase it), My child will be going on a week long trip with his primary school (mainstream), there WILL be activities in which he cannot participate (myself and his dad have explained this to him) also will have to eat soya free foods. Are we stopping him or complaining that he will not be able to do the same activities as his friends NO, We feel this is a great opportunity for him mentally and socially and to have fun with his mates.

Thats all I wanted to say.

Merry Christmas to all.




Oh and I will be anxious as any other parent would be for their childs first time away from home alone.

Thank you :thumbsup:

And a Merry Christmas to you too :greengrin

Hope it all goes well :agree:

[IndieHibby]

Very good point there. There is a common sense solution, and it seems the mother wasn't having it. I hope she is condemned by anti discrimination campaigners, as she has not done anyone any good.


That's exactly what I was thinking at the end of the bulletin.

[P.S. I wasn't 'having a go', by the way :wink:]

[--------]

Is the disabled child worth less than the rest? The class is a group, and part of her learning is to feel that she has some validity in the group.

Surely the ideal solution is one in which the whole class - of which the kid is a member can take part? I find it hard to believe the kid couldn't have gone along, and not taken part in the physical activities, but that the programme was tailored so that she could at least feel included.

As I said earlier, I think a wee bit of common sense from all parties has been lacking in this whole situation.


Reading the report, the child WAS going to go along, and she was being given the task of providing the filmed record of the trip. Handled correctly, as I'm sure it would have been, that could - would - have been an entirely positive experience for the girl.

"My daughter would have been excluded in that she would have had to stay in the centre while all the kids went off to do the activities. When she wasn't in the centre she would have been asked to film them kayaking and doing the things she would love to do but she cannot do and I thought that was psychologically a pretty cruel thing to ask a child to do."

The mother needs to make her mind up - either her daughter was to be confined to the centre, or she was going to go out with the rest of the class and do the filming. One or other. Having been involved in taking kids on activity weekends in the past, I can assure you that there's a lot more to the time away than just the activities - there's a lot of socialising after hours and informal fun in the evenings. It's not about everyone doing the same as everyone else - it's about everyone discovering what he or she CAN do, then doing it as well as he/she can.

Being the class 'camera-person' with responsibility for recording the trip would have been both enjoyable and character-building and educative. The film would have been shown back at the school - credits to director and camera-tech etc - and probably to all the parents as well. So this mother has deprived her daughter of that too. Suggesting that asking her to do this was 'psychlogical cruelty' is just plain stupid - and totally unjust to the teachers and staff at Craggan.

Sure, disabled children benefit from being included in mainstream schools and school activities, but IMHO we need to remember that not all kids can do everything and that one person's disability shouldn't deprive other children of THEIR education.

I think of one wee boy with a fairly acute case of hyperactivity/attention deficiency - he can't sit still for more than a few moments, can't keep quiet, can't concentrate for more than a few moments. He's being taught in a mainstream school organised along open-plan lines as one of a mainstream class. His presence is positive in certain ways - the rest of the kids are learning to cope with someone who's 'different' - but totally disruptive in all others. His teacher's at her wits' end and the parents of the other children are worried - with complete justification, btw - that THEIR kids' education is suffering.

The sad thing is that knowing Craggan and the staff there, I suspect that they would have managed somehow before the end of the visit to have had that wee girl doing some stuff she'd never expected or dreamed of.

Perhaps it's a case of the mother harbouring guilt at having brought a disabled child into the world, combined with an over-possessive attitude towards her daughter, and an unwillingness to trust the staff of the school and the centre to care for her daughter while she was away from home?

Sometimes the worst disablement has its roots in a parent's unwillingness or inability (same thing, actually) to let go and allow the disabled child to find his or her own place in the world? Sometimes we hold on to our kids too long even when they're NOT disabled....

[Peevemor]

The sad thing is that knowing Craggan and the staff there, I suspect that they would have managed somehow before the end of the visit to have had that wee girl doing some stuff she'd never expected or dreamed of.

Sorry - off topic but is it the BB place and if so, is it no longer a BB place?

[Dashing Bob S]

and risk wasting thousands of pounds of Council Tax on stupid legal fees if their decision gets challenged?

between a rock and a hard place imo

complicated issue. i wouldn't be too quick to judge the woman even if she is wrong and possibly misdirecting her anger/ frustration.

well meaning but possibly simplistic legislators are probably the cheif villains here, but thats change for you - there will always be complications that need to be overcome...

Actually, reading your post I agree with every word. It's far more generous, insightful and better informed than mine. I can only state, in mitigating circumstances for my truculence, that I've had the in-laws here for four days now.

[--------]

and risk wasting thousands of pounds of Council Tax on stupid legal fees if their decision gets challenged?

between a rock and a hard place imo

complicated issue. i wouldn't be too quick to judge the woman even if she is wrong and possibly misdirecting her anger/ frustration.

well meaning but possibly simplistic legislators are probably the cheif villains here, but thats change for you - there will always be complications that need to be overcome...


Indeed - and having the life and work of the school disrupted as well.

You're more generous than I was, and you're right - we shouldn't judge the woman too harshly.

However, it does seem sad that an entire class has been deprived of a good experience because of the way the law can now be interpreted.

That goes for Donna Williamson's daughter as well, of course.

But I'm also rather bemused that Ms Williamson allowed her name to be mentioned in the press - surely it would have been much better for her daughter if she had remained anonymous?

[500miles]

Sorry - off topic but is it the BB place and if so, is it no longer a BB place?

It's still a BB place, and has just been refurbished - in 2006. I think it's let out for Schools as well though.

[hibsdaft]

But I'm also rather bemused that Ms Williamson allowed her name to be mentioned in the press - surely it would have been much better for her daughter if she had remained anonymous?

indeed - the biggest loser in all this is probably the poor kid caught in the middle of this mess...