Gay Sportsmen

[McHibby]

Gareth Thomas, the Welsh rugby player, has come out of the closet. Do you think that it's about time other sportmen came out too?

I think in a ideal world they should be able to, but you could imagine the grief they would get - especially in 'masculine' sports like football and rugby.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/8421956.stm

[Leicester Fan]

.

[Woody1985]

Surely it's personal choice?!

I don't go around telling everyone I'm hetro. No need for it IMO.

There's lots of legislation that ensures that people are now treated as equal regardless of their sexuality and most of society now have no issue with it. There will be people who will always view gays as wrong, no amount of publicity etc will change that.

[MSK]

Surely it's personal choice?!

I don't go around telling everyone I'm hetro. No need for it IMO.

There's lots of legislation that ensures that people are now treated as equal regardless of their sexuality and most of society now have no issue with it. There will be people who will always view gays as wrong, no amount of publicity etc will change that.:agree:

[ancient hibee]

I can never understand it when someone well known comes out(and I realise it is a big thing for them)but in this day and age does anyone honestly care.

[McHibby]

Surely it's personal choice?!

I don't go around telling everyone I'm hetro. No need for it IMO.



I'm not suggesting they come mincing out of the tunnel!
Straight folk dont go around anouncing they're hetro, but they can go out places with their girlfriend/boyfriend, take them out and meet their mates/family, and get married or whatever.

If it was known that, say Boyd, was gay - maybe he'd introduced his boyfriend to some team mates and then the papers puplished that. He's not announced anything, just done what you or I would do if we were going out with someone. I would imagine he'd get it tight from both players and fans.

I was just thinking that even now, in this day and age, it wouldn't be an easy life for a playing footballer/rubgy player to be openly gay.

[duncs]

Surely it's personal choice?!

I don't go around telling everyone I'm hetro. No need for it IMO.

There's lots of legislation that ensures that people are now treated as equal regardless of their sexuality and most of society now have no issue with it. There will be people who will always view gays as wrong, no amount of publicity etc will change that.

It's very well having the legislation etc, but there is definitely something fishy going on in sport if the number of 'out' gays can be counted on one hand. Roughly 1 in 10 of the population is gay, yet there isn't a single professional footballer who's gay since Justin Fashanu (and look how that ended).

There's a massive difference between having the legislation that people are treated equally and the atmosphere that permeates sports clubs, especially football clubs. Look at how anyone 'different' is persecuted in a football - Graeme Le Saux read The Guardian so was assumed to be a homosexual, Pat Nevin was fined by John Alridge when he was at Tranmere Rovers for going to the local art cinema in Dublin instead of drinking with the rest of the squad. Even Brian Clough's man managements skills failed him when dealing with the aforementioned Fashanu.

It seems slightly more acceptable in individual sports to live a different lifestyle, and the only openly gay sportsmen tend to be near the end of their career before they come out, when they are financially secure and usually more content in themselves. I really can't see how football is at all welcoming for a young gay man and that's just in the clubs themselves - the reaction they would be greeted with by fans is I think we would all agree not something we would want to endure.

Football, and sport generally need to do a lot more with this issue.

[Killiehibbie]

Maybe there just isn't that many gays playing football or rugby? Someone says on average 1 in 10 males are gay, maybe they just choose a different career.

[Leicester Fan]

.

[steakbake]

Interior designers or ladies hairdressers for instance?

You beat me to it. :agree:

[CropleyWasGod]

Interior designers or ladies hairdressers for instance?

In a nutshell, you sum up the issue. :rolleyes:

And you wonder why people find it so difficult to come out?

[Woody1985]

It's very well having the legislation etc, but there is definitely something fishy going on in sport if the number of 'out' gays can be counted on one hand. Roughly 1 in 10 of the population is gay, yet there isn't a single professional footballer who's gay since Justin Fashanu (and look how that ended).

There's a massive difference between having the legislation that people are treated equally and the atmosphere that permeates sports clubs, especially football clubs. Look at how anyone 'different' is persecuted in a football - Graeme Le Saux read The Guardian so was assumed to be a homosexual, Pat Nevin was fined by John Alridge when he was at Tranmere Rovers for going to the local art cinema in Dublin instead of drinking with the rest of the squad. Even Brian Clough's man managements skills failed him when dealing with the aforementioned Fashanu.

It seems slightly more acceptable in individual sports to live a different lifestyle, and the only openly gay sportsmen tend to be near the end of their career before they come out, when they are financially secure and usually more content in themselves. I really can't see how football is at all welcoming for a young gay man and that's just in the clubs themselves - the reaction they would be greeted with by fans is I think we would all agree not something we would want to endure.

Football, and sport generally need to do a lot more with this issue.

I agree about the legislation part but there is only so much people can do. IMO you will never rid the world of homophobia or dislike of gays. I think in the main now it is generally accepted but it doesn't need to be put out to the world.

I agree there probably is more that can be done to ensure that more people accept it but there's a lot of intertwined issues with this. i.e. you can say that everyone has a right to a religion but if that religion denounces gays then who's right and who's wrong? Do you tell the religious people that their views are vile and wrong but could then be put in a position where you are being bigoted?

I'm sure gay people are probably aware of others thoughts around them and how they may be perceived by other players in their team for example. Some guys won't be comfortable jumping into the showers with a gay man after a football match on the flip side others won't care and not give it a second thought. That's just the way people are and you won't change that.

It's purely through personal choice, if the guys don't want to declare it to the world then that's up to them. If they feel comfortable doing it and want to then we should ensure that they aren't persecuted for it. I think it's a bit patronising to say 'come on gays, tell us who you are so we can show you that we accept you'.

[--------]

Ronnie Kray was homosexual, and he used to take his new friends to meetings with his East End criminal associates.

None of them ever made any funny remarks about Ronnie when he introduced them to his new partners. :rolleyes:


It seems very sad that dear sweet Ronnie Kray could find that sort of understanding and toleration among his criminal associates, while other folks have to agonise over whether to tell their friends and associates. :devil:

[The_Horde]

Tbh if you're Welsh you're half way there already.

:grr: :bye:

[blackpoolhibs]

1 in 10 people are gay. :confused: I doubt those numbers. Although if true, it means there are more gay Hearts fans than Hibbys.:wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

1 in 10 people are gay. :confused: I doubt those numbers. Although if true, it means there are more gay Hearts fans than Hibbys.:wink:

1. why would you doubt it?

2. even if it's 1 in 50, it still means there are more.

[blackpoolhibs]

1. why would you doubt it?

Well 1 in 10 just seems a lot. I know lots of people, but only know a couple who are gay

2. even if it's 1 in 50, it still means there are more.

More that what?

[Leicester Fan]

.

[CropleyWasGod]

Lighten up mate it's only a bit of fun. I haven't got anything against gay people.(I nearly said sausage jockeys there but thought better of it.)

The "only a bit of fun" defence doesn't wash, I'm afraid. It's a major reason for men and women not coming out, the fear of "being made fun of".

[CropleyWasGod]

More than what?

You said that if it's 1 in 10, then there are more gay Hearts supporters than Hibs. I was just being a smartass and saying that, even if it's 1 in 50, there will be more.

As for the 1 in 10, I would have thought it more than that, maybe 1 in 6 or7, but then that's, like you, purely on personal experience.

Incidentally, you probably do know more gay folk than you think. They just choose not to let it be known to you.

[Leicester Fan]

The "only a bit of fun" defence doesn't wash, I'm afraid. It's a major reason for men and women not coming out, the fear of "being made fun of".
In that case I'm sorry you feel that way, I don't mean to offend anyone.I don't think a bit of harmless banter hurts but so be it.

[Woody1985]

In that case I'm sorry you feel that way, I don't mean to offend anyone.I don't think a bit of harmless banter hurts but so be it.

I wouldn't worry about it, I'm sure lots of Welsh and gays have encountered pains in the ass like you and it will be like water off a ducks back. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

In that case I'm sorry you feel that way, I don't mean to offend anyone.I don't think a bit of harmless banter hurts but so be it.

Using terms like "sausage jockey" and making assumptions about hairdressers are akin to attitudes towards black men 50 years ago. You wouldn't say that "sambo" and "all black men are stupid" were just harmless banter, would you?

Apology accepted.:agree:

[Leicester Fan]

Using terms like "sausage jockey" and making assumptions about hairdressers are akin to attitudes towards black men 50 years ago. You wouldn't say that "sambo" and "all black men are stupid" were just harmless banter, would you?

Apology accepted.:agree:

It was actually meant in a post modern ironic way but I'm not going to argue with you. we'll just call it quits.

[Peevemor]

It's very well having the legislation etc, but there is definitely something fishy going on in sport if the number of 'out' gays can be counted on one hand. Roughly 1 in 10 of the population is gay, yet there isn't a single professional footballer who's gay since Justin Fashanu (and look how that ended).

There's a massive difference between having the legislation that people are treated equally and the atmosphere that permeates sports clubs, especially football clubs. Look at how anyone 'different' is persecuted in a football - Graeme Le Saux read The Guardian so was assumed to be a homosexual, Pat Nevin was fined by John Alridge when he was at Tranmere Rovers for going to the local art cinema in Dublin instead of drinking with the rest of the squad. Even Brian Clough's man managements skills failed him when dealing with the aforementioned Fashanu.

It seems slightly more acceptable in individual sports to live a different lifestyle, and the only openly gay sportsmen tend to be near the end of their career before they come out, when they are financially secure and usually more content in themselves. I really can't see how football is at all welcoming for a young gay man and that's just in the clubs themselves - the reaction they would be greeted with by fans is I think we would all agree not something we would want to endure.

Football, and sport generally need to do a lot more with this issue.

Why and what?

[blackpoolhibs]

You said that if it's 1 in 10, then there are more gay Hearts supporters than Hibs. I was just being a smartass and saying that, even if it's 1 in 50, there will be more.

As for the 1 in 10, I would have thought it more than that, maybe 1 in 6 or7, but then that's, like you, purely on personal experience.

Incidentally, you probably do know more gay folk than you think. They just choose not to let it be known to you.

Again i have to doubt the numbers. for every 6 or 7 people you know, 1 is gay, is that right?

[Woody1985]

You said that if it's 1 in 10, then there are more gay Hearts supporters than Hibs. I was just being a smartass and saying that, even if it's 1 in 50, there will be more.

As for the 1 in 10, I would have thought it more than that, maybe 1 in 6 or7, but then that's, like you, purely on personal experience.

Incidentally, you probably do know more gay folk than you think. They just choose not to let it be known to you.

I very much doubt that approximately 1 billion people on the planet right now are gay.

[Beefster]

Again i have to doubt the numbers. for every 6 or 7 people you know, 1 is gay, is that right?

It's generally accepted by sociologists that 5% of the population is gay.

[Woody1985]

Do any of you know any male/female, mixed, twins?

From the couple (2 sets) that I do know they are gay like their wires have somehow been crossed. I find it bizarre.

[CropleyWasGod]

Again i have to doubt the numbers. for every 6 or 7 people you know, 1 is gay, is that right?

I'm saying it wouldn't surprise me. In some environments I am in, it's definitely higher, maybe 1 in 4. In most, though, it would be impossible to tell, for the reason I mentioned above.

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm saying it wouldn't surprise me. In some environments I am in, it's definitely higher, maybe 1 in 4. In most, though, it would be impossible to tell, for the reason I mentioned above.

I will take your word for that. (limp wristed smiley):greengrin

[ArabHibee]

I'm saying it wouldn't surprise me. In some environments I am in, it's definitely higher, maybe 1 in 4. In most, though, it would be impossible to tell, for the reason I mentioned above.

Stop going to gay bars then. :duck::greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

I will take your word for that. (limp wristed smiley):greengrin

Not rising to the bait smiley. :greengrin

---------- Post added at 10:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 PM ----------


Stop going to gay bars then. :duck::greengrin

Why? :confused:

[Removed]

Maybe there just isn't that many gays playing football or rugby? Someone says on average 1 in 10 males are gay, maybe they just choose a different career.

Maybe they prefer tennis :dunno:

[CropleyWasGod]

Maybe they prefer tennis :dunno:

Nah.... all the gays are Hibees, remember.

[Woody1985]

I'm saying it wouldn't surprise me. In some environments I am in, it's definitely higher, maybe 1 in 4. In most, though, it would be impossible to tell, for the reason I mentioned above.

False logic, I find the posts about numbers completely bizarre as I normally find your posts an interesting read and you make some great points but that's like me saying I'm off to Alabama and that there are no gays in the world.

[CropleyWasGod]

False logic, I find the posts about numbers completely bizarre as I find your posts and interesting read and you make some great points but that's like me saying I'm off to Alabama and that there are no gays in the world.

Not sure I understand what you;re saying.

BH was querying the 1 in 10 comment, because that's more than he has experienced. My experience is different. Two different experiences; that is all.

Or am I missing summat? It's old, and I;m late... I think

[Woody1985]

Not sure I understand what you;re saying.

BH was querying the 1 in 10 comment, because that's more than he has experienced. My experience is different. Two different experiences; that is all.

Or am I missing summat? It's old, and I;m late... I think

Apologies, I thought you were saying that you thought that the likelyhood of gay people was 1 in 6/7 and found that it was more in your circle of friends etc which is why you thought it was around 1 in 6/7.

[CropleyWasGod]

Apologies, I thought you were saying that you thought that the likelyhood of gay people was 1 in 6/7 and found that it was more in your circle of friends etc which is why you thought it was around 1 in 6/7.

No worries. :greengrin

Stay the F away from Alabama :greengrin

[GhostofBolivar]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=buccigross_john&id=4685761


Before you open your mouth to sneer at Brendan’s story, just think there probably is someone close to you who would like to say they are gay, but are afraid of your reaction. Batting about the words queer, pussy and faggot are hurtful and demeaning. Move beyond that. You want to talk some trash? Be witty about it. Go in from a different angle. But don’t you ever attack someone for their sexuality. Or any other preferences of theirs for that matter.

Because she says it better than I can (http://wraparoundcurl.wordpress.com/2009/11/29/on-love-and-hockey/)

[Dashing Bob S]

Personally, I doubt that there are loads of top gay sportsmen in the closet. This is because the 'dressing room culture' in team sports would make it very difficult for them.

Kids start playing team sports in their pre-sexual years, and for more sensitive youngsters the dressing room can be quite an awkward place to come to terms with any adolescent sexuality (hetero or homo), so I'd assume that many simply opt out of sports.

However, the larger issue is one of homophobia in society in general, rather than specifically in sports.

[calumhibee1]

Judging from the gay people i've met, sport isn't really there thing, so i'd be surprised if it's even as high as 1 in 30 sports people are gay. That's just the ones i've met though.

[Peevemor]

Okay it's not sport, but here's a wee 'real life' example.

I'm part of a group who do Breton music and dance. I play pipes with what's called a 'bagad' - basically a Breton pipe band. There are approx. 50 of us out of which there is one guy who is openly (but discretely) gay.

As for the dancers, there are 16-20 blokes who dance at the top level and out of those there are only 3 or 4 who are straight - the rest I have to say are what you could call 'screaming'.

There's a superb ambiance between us all (there are also dozens of yummy girlie dancers) - we do after all share a common cultural interest, but it's clear that the gays/bis are drawn to certain activities more than others.

Given the example I have given involves music and not football or rugby, I would guess that a ratio of 1 in 50 would probably be on the high side for these sports.

[blackpoolhibs]

Okay it's not sport, but here's a wee 'real life' example.

I'm part of a group who do Breton music and dance. I play pipes with what's called a 'bagad' - basically a Breton pipe band. There are approx. 50 of us out of which there is one guy who is openly (but discretely) gay.

As for the dancers, there are 16-20 blokes who dance at the top level and out of those there are only 3 or 4 who are straight - the rest I have to say are what you could call 'screaming'.

There's a superb ambiance between us all (there are also dozens of yummy girlie dancers) - we do after all share a common cultural interest, but it's clear that the gays/bis are drawn to certain activities more than others.

Given the example I have given involves music and not football or rugby, I would guess that a ratio of 1 in 50 would probably be on the high side for these sports.

:faf::faf::devil:

[J-C]

I played American football with the Glasgow Tigers about 12 years ago, we were linked to the Glasgow university team and a few of the university guys played for us during thr season. One of them was gay, nice guy, played offensive lineman and wasn't scared to go in for a full heavy hitting tackle. Gay means nowt, it's sport, doesn't make a damn difference what your sexuality is.

[Phil D. Rolls]

EEch to they-re oan, bit if one of these poofter's touche's my boy, I'll do time, I swear it!!!!

[Speedy]

I wouldn't worry about it, I'm sure lots of Welsh and gays have encountered pains in the ass like you and it will be like water off a ducks back. :greengrin

:duck:

[Woody1985]

:duck:

:greengrin

[joe breezy]

What about Paul Hartley :guesswho: