Is being thick now considered an admirable quality?

[Rory89]

I must say I've met a few people who when in big groups of people just seem to come out with ridiculous statements or questions, like asking who George W. Bush is or what country Europe is in. The general response from people seems to be to laugh and then say something like "ah you're so funny, what are you like".

Now maybe some people are genuinely very, very stupid. However, I do think sometimes people pretend to be more thick than they actually are, which confuses me as I wouldn't consider being really stupid as something you'd want everyone to think of you.

I'm thinking of Jade Goody, who went on Big Brother and said a load of daft things which everyone loved her for, before people realised she was a horrible racist, and then she died and everyone realised she was actually a princess from the wrong side of the tracks. Now if you watch all these programmes there's always someone who thinks Cameroon is a coconut treat, and they always do well.

If this is what people watch and learn from, I'm guessing that if you were a bit insecure about your lack of intelligence, instead of worrying people will laugh at you for it behind your back, you'd be better to just make a load of stupid remarks as apparently Big Brother teaches us all that it's funny to be thick and you'll get rewarded for it. Am I being harsh or is quite depressing that people think this way? I'm not claiming to be a genius and I don't think being brainy is the most important thing, but if people are growing up trying to be stupid it surely isn't a good thing.

[Peevemor]

... if people are growing up trying to be stupid it surely isn't a good thing.

Unless you're a yam. :agree:

[Rory89]

Unless you're a yam. :agree:

Tbh you'd have to be a bit of a dafty not to support Hibs. That's how I know that 99.99999% of the world are complete idiots.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think it's a defence mechanism for some, like that Stacy on the X Factor. She lacked confidence so she hammed up with the "duh-uh-uh huh huh huh" stuff. It worked fine until people got fed up of it, because - at the end of the day, if you're thick you're no use to anyone.

I also think it is a form of inverted snobbery. People don't want to alienate themselves from their peers, so they will deliberately pretend to be more ignorant than they are. If all your pals are being racist, it takes a lot of confidence to stand up and challenge their thinking, it's a lot easier just to go along with it.

I think that there is a culture of "everybody wins" in the UK these days though. The talentless - Cheryl Cole, Katie Price et al are revered for the fact that they are "ordinary people" rather than for being extraordinary.

At the same time fat wee bimbos from schemes go holidays to exotic destinations and get hurls around the town in stretch limos and pretend they are stars.

There is a blurring of the edges between the mundane and celebrity that is quite sad to see. When everyone wins, everyone also loses.

[ArabHibee]

I think it's a defence mechanism for some, like that Stacy on the X Factor. She lacked confidence so she hammed up with the "duh-uh-uh huh huh huh" stuff. It worked fine until people got fed up of it, because - at the end of the day, if you're thick you're no use to anyone.

I also think it is a form of inverted snobbery. People don't want to alienate themselves from their peers, so they will deliberately pretend to be more ignorant than they are. If all your pals are being racist, it takes a lot of confidence to stand up and challenge their thinking, it's a lot easier just to go along with it.

I think that there is a culture of "everybody wins" in the UK these days though. The talentless - Cheryl Cole, Katie Price et al are revered for the fact that they are "ordinary people" rather than for being extraordinary.

At the same time fat wee bimbos from schemes go holidays to exotic destinations and get hurls around the town in stretch limos and pretend they are stars.

There is a blurring of the edges between the mundane and celebrity that is quite sad to see. When everyone wins, everyone also loses.

Same could be said when all your pals are being 'PC'. :greengrin

[Woody1985]

I used to find this at school and still do with people's 'I can't do it' or 'I'm too stupid attitude'.

A few guys were smart but they never tried and just ****ed around to fit in with all their mates who genuinely were stupid.

I never went with that route although those guys were my mates, I was in the top classes and used to get the piss taken sometimes but gave as good as I got. I wasn't interested in being mates with all of the swots as I just didn't have anything in common with them.

I found that I was never as good mates with some of the guys in the lower classes than I would have if I had ****ed around as well. It sort of left me stuck in the middle which is probably why I couldn't be arsed with high school.

One or two have since said that they wished they did try now to get a decent job because they knew they could.

[J-C]

I suppose the oposite to all this is people like Boris Johnson, who appears as thick as **** but is in fact a very clever man who has lasted a lot longer in politics than expected.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Same could be said when all your pals are being 'PC'. :greengrin

You have to admire anyone who has the courage to speak their mind.:greengrin


I used to find this at school and still do with people's 'I can't do it' or 'I'm too stupid attitude'.

A few guys were smart but they never tried and just ****ed around to fit in with all their mates who genuinely were stupid.

I never went with that route although those guys were my mates, I was in the top classes and used to get the piss taken sometimes but gave as good as I got. I wasn't interested in being mates with all of the swots as I just didn't have anything in common with them.

I found that I was never as good mates with some of the guys in the lower classes than I would have if I had ****ed around as well. It sort of left me stuck in the middle which is probably why I couldn't be arsed with high school.

One or two have since said that they wished they did try now to get a decent job because they knew they could.

On the subject of people not trying. I constantly come across senior people who think it is funny that they can't even switch a PC on. Yeah it's hilarious.

I can't see anyone else smiling though.

---------- Post added at 12:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 PM ----------


I suppose the oposite to all this is people like Boris Johnson, who appears as thick as **** but is in fact a very clever man who has lasted a lot longer in politics than expected.

He always reminds me of Colombo for some reason. Apparently bumbling through life but - as if by magic - coming up with the right answer.

[Woody1985]

You have to admire anyone who has the courage to speak their mind.:greengrin



On the subject of people not trying. I constantly come across senior people who think it is funny that they can't even switch a PC on. Yeah it's hilarious.

I can't see anyone else smiling though.

---------- Post added at 12:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 PM ----------



He always reminds me of Colombo for some reason. Apparently bumbling through life but - as if by magic - coming up with the right answer.

That really does my nut in, working as a support analyst I need to help people out quite a lot.

It's fine when someone doesn't know how to do something and are willing to learn but it really does my head in when you get 'I don't have the first idea about computers'. 'You don't need to, you just need to follow my instructions one step at a time and your problem will be resolved' :grr:

There seems to be a complete lack of willingness for alot of people to do anything out of their comfort zone although at times people are just plain ignorant.

I walked past one of our former exectives offices one day, the computer was on but the screen wasn't locked (I had been past 5 minutes earlier), so I asked the exec secretary to go and lock the PC as the user obviously has access to sensitive information and should be taking extra care. I was told 'They don't like doing that because they need to type their password in again'. No ****ing **** sherlock. :grr:

[SlickShoes]

That really does my nut in, working as a support analyst I need to help people out quite a lot.

It's fine when someone doesn't know how to do something and are willing to learn but it really does my head in when you get 'I don't have the first idea about computers'. 'You don't need to, you just need to follow my instructions one step at a time and your problem will be resolved' :grr:

There seems to be a complete lack of willingness for alot of people to do anything out of their comfort zone although at times people are just plain ignorant.

I walked past one of our former exectives offices one day, the computer was on but the screen wasn't locked (I had been past 5 minutes earlier), so I asked the exec secretary to go and lock the PC as the user obviously has access to sensitive information and should be taking extra care. I was told 'They don't like doing that because they need to type their password in again'. No ****ing **** sherlock. :grr:

YES!

I have sent the simplest STEP BY STEP instructions to users here, they even use computers every day, but they still just write back or phone you to say its too complicated and they need you to do it. Or they dont have time to deal with it, which really means they cant and wont admit it or learn how to do it.

The best way to learn is by doing but i think a lot of people are too scared to move out of there comfort zone and try and do something different.

[Woody1985]

YES!

I have sent the simplest STEP BY STEP instructions to users here, they even use computers every day, but they still just write back or phone you to say its too complicated and they need you to do it. Or they dont have time to deal with it, which really means they cant and wont admit it or learn how to do it.

The best way to learn is by doing but i think a lot of people are too scared to move out of there comfort zone and try and do something different.

I do that all the time and still people **** it up.

A lot of the time there are data errors which need to have a specific workaround put in place to get it to work. If the process isn't followed it won't work or it could make the problem worse causing additional work.

I can check the database at the back end and no action will have been taken or a different value appears from what I've just tested. I'll call them and query what they have done and it will deviate completely from what I've said and they 'just tried something' they thought would work. Well guess what, the instructions I sent you do work so how about trying that. :grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

[SlickShoes]

I do that all the time and still people **** it up.

A lot of the time there are data errors which need to have a specific workaround put in place to get it to work. If the process isn't followed it won't work or it could make the problem worse causing additional work.

I can check the database at the back end and no action will have been taken or a different value appears from what I've just tested. I'll call them and query what they have done and it will deviate completely from what I've said and they 'just tried something' they thought would work. Well guess what, the instructions I sent you do work so how about trying that. :grr:

My personal favourite is whilst on the phone:

Me:Click on START
Them: OK
Me: Click on RUN
Them: OK
Me: Type in CMD and hit enter
Them: OK
Me: A black window has appeared, type in ipconfig/all and hit enter
Them: OK
Me: Right what do you see on the screen now? One of the sections should say "Ethernet Adapter Local Area Connection"
Them: NO
Me: Right OK........Did you click on start when i told you to?
Them: NO, did you want me to click on start?


:brickwall:brickwall:brickwall:brickwall:brickwall :brickwall:brickwall

[--------]

That really does my nut in, working as a support analyst I need to help people out quite a lot.

It's fine when someone doesn't know how to do something and are willing to learn but it really does my head in when you get 'I don't have the first idea about computers'. 'You don't need to, you just need to follow my instructions one step at a time and your problem will be resolved' :grr:

There seems to be a complete lack of willingness for alot of people to do anything out of their comfort zone although at times people are just plain ignorant.

I walked past one of our former exectives offices one day, the computer was on but the screen wasn't locked (I had been past 5 minutes earlier), so I asked the exec secretary to go and lock the PC as the user obviously has access to sensitive information and should be taking extra care. I was told 'They don't like doing that because they need to type their password in again'. No ****ing **** sherlock. :grr:


YES!

I have sent the simplest STEP BY STEP instructions to users here, they even use computers every day, but they still just write back or phone you to say its too complicated and they need you to do it. Or they dont have time to deal with it, which really means they cant and wont admit it or learn how to do it.

The best way to learn is by doing but i think a lot of people are too scared to move out of there comfort zone and try and do something different.


Not long after we moved to our present Broadband provider, the service went down. I called the techie guys for help.

The guy asked me straight away, "Is your hub plugged in and switched on?"

I said, "Of course it is - d'you think I'm totally stupid?"

And he said, "I'm not being funny - 40% of calls like this one I can resolve by asking that one question."

Which means 40% of broadband users are too thick to plug in/ switch on their hubs before they try to log on....

IMO there has been a general dumbing-down in our culture. It may be in part a reaction against snobbery, but I also think a lot of people are afraid to fail, so they just don't try. And a lot of people are just too lazy to exert themselves to understand anything that isn't completely clear to them as soon as they read/ hear/ see it.

What annoys me is that popular culture - TV, movies, music, etc - is now largely aimed at an audience whose attention-span is less than that of mentally-subnormal gerbils. It's culture for the morons, by the morons, about morons. "Big Brother Exclusive - Tracey the Bimbo picks her nose and walks AT THE SAME TIME!"

And 4.5 million people tune in the following night to see if she can do it again without what passes for her brain exploding. :grr: :grr: :grr:


But then the thickos have always tended to resent the bright kids - they certainly did at my school. :devil:

[SlickShoes]

Not long after we moved to our present Broadband provider, the service went down. I called the techie guys for help.

The guy asked me straight away, "Is your hub plugged in and switched on?"

I said, "Of course it is - d'you think I'm totally stupid?"

And he said, "I'm nopt being funny - 40% of calls like this one I can resolve by asking that one question."

Which means 40% of broadband users are too thick to plug in/ switch on their hubs before they try to log on....

IMO there has been a general dumbing-down in our culture. It may be in part a reaction against snobbery, but I also think a lot of people are afraid to fail, so they just don't try. And a lot of people are just too lazy to exert themselves to understand anything that isn't completely clear to them as soon as they read/ hear/ see it.

What annoys me is that popular culture - TV, movies, music, etc - is now largely aimed at an audience whose attention-span is less than that of mentally-subnormal gerbils. It's culture for the morons, by the morons, about morons. "Big Brother Exclusive - Tracey the Bimbo picks her nose and walks AT THE SAME TIME!"

And 4.5 million people tune in the following night to see if she can do it again without what passes for her brain exploding. :grr: :grr: :grr:


But then the thickos have always tended to resent the bright kids - they certainly did at my school. :devil:

Haha amazing, people laugh at IT folk for asking them to turn it off and back on again. But there are things that will FIX!

Also the amount of times ive had calls from people telling me the computers broken and all i have done to resolve it is get them to either turn on the monitor or turn it on at the wall is unbelievable!

[--------]

Haha amazing, people laugh at IT folk for asking them to turn it off and back on again. But there are things that will FIX!

Also the amount of times ive had calls from people telling me the computers broken and all i have done to resolve it is get them to either turn on the monitor or turn it on at the wall is unbelievable!


It's not just about being stupid - although daily I meet with people who really should NOT be out in public without a minder - it's a total refusal even to try to learn.

"I don't know how to do this - therefore it is impossible."

"I've never heard of that - therefore it doesn't exist."

"You're telling me something I've never been told before. You must be wrong."

A while back I was trying to explain to Neddie the Soapdodger in the Caldera why I follow Hibs and not either the Yams or one of the Gruesome Twosome.

I told him I'd grown up in East Lothian, that ER was the nearest senior ground to my home, that my family were all Hibees, that I didn't want to get involved in all the sectarian Rangers-Celtic nonsense, etc ...

Then I remarked that, after all, Hibs had been around long before Celtic were thought of.

"Naw they wurnae," says Neddie.

"Aye they wur," says I.

"Naw they wurnae."

"Aye, they WUR - Hibs were founded in 1875. Celtic didn't come along until 1888 - and even then you stole all our players."

"Naw we didnae."

So I killed him and buried him under the car park of the new station they're building in the Caldera.... :devil:

[Jonnyboy]

I think it's a defence mechanism for some, like that Stacy on the X Factor. She lacked confidence so she hammed up with the "duh-uh-uh huh huh huh" stuff. It worked fine until people got fed up of it, because - at the end of the day, if you're thick you're no use to anyone.

I also think it is a form of inverted snobbery. People don't want to alienate themselves from their peers, so they will deliberately pretend to be more ignorant than they are. If all your pals are being racist, it takes a lot of confidence to stand up and challenge their thinking, it's a lot easier just to go along with it.

I think that there is a culture of "everybody wins" in the UK these days though. The talentless - Cheryl Cole, Katie Price et al are revered for the fact that they are "ordinary people" rather than for being extraordinary.

At the same time fat wee bimbos from schemes go holidays to exotic destinations and get hurls around the town in stretch limos and pretend they are stars.

There is a blurring of the edges between the mundane and celebrity that is quite sad to see. When everyone wins, everyone also loses.

Sorry FR but I find that sentiment offensive in the extreme. I know you're referring to adults but many of those self same adults were once children and from my experience of working with kids who have learning difficulties they are always going to struggle to come across as anything but 'thick.' It's not because the education system let them down or that thet are just plain lazy it's because for whatever reason they just don't have the mental capacity to take in and retain information.

I worked with first year pupils in a high school and pretty much every day I encountered that situation. For example, in maths I'd spend time with kids trying to help them to do the most simple arithmetical exercises and each day I thought 'bingo, they've got it' only to find 24 hours later that I needed to start all over again.

So you'll have to forgive me but I can't agree with your sentiments in any way, shape or form

[heretoday]

I NEVER, repeat, NEVER receive a letter from any agency be it lawyers, the council or even banks that doesn't contain at least one spelling mistake or grammatical howler.

Seriously, when people get it into their heads that "it doesn't really matter" if they get the English language wrong we are lost.

Texting and emailese have been blamed for this problem. I think, however, that kids just don't read books any more and thus have no feel for how the language is spoken. The short attention syndrome has something to do with that but really it's parents who are to blame.

When was the last time you heard a parent correcting their child for using poor speech? About 1975? Yup, I thought so.

It's nothing to do with snobbery by the way. It's to do with preserving a beautiful language.

[Woody1985]

I NEVER, repeat, NEVER receive a letter from any agency be it lawyers, the council or even banks that doesn't contain at least one spelling mistake or grammatical howler.

Seriously, when people get it into their heads that "it doesn't really matter" if they get the English language wrong we are lost.

Texting and emailese have been blamed for this problem. I think, however, that kids just don't read books any more and thus have no feel for how the language is spoken. The short attention syndrome has something to do with that but really it's parents who are to blame.

When was the last time you heard a parent correcting their child for using poor speech? About 1975? Yup, I thought so.

It's nothing to do with snobbery by the way. It's to do with preserving a beautiful language.

I would agree that texting plays a major role. Going back and reading some of my e-mails are like double dutch. Wrong tense, descriptions, things like their/there/they're (which really annoy me when others get it wrong).

fk txtin. :grr:

[--------]

Sorry FR but I find that sentiment offensive in the extreme. I know you're referring to adults but many of those self same adults were once children and from my experience of working with kids who have learning difficulties they are always going to struggle to come across as anything but 'thick.' It's not because the education system let them down or that thet are just plain lazy it's because for whatever reason they just don't have the mental capacity to take in and retain information.

I worked with first year pupils in a high school and pretty much every day I encountered that situation. For example, in maths I'd spend time with kids trying to help them to do the most simple arithmetical exercises and each day I thought 'bingo, they've got it' only to find 24 hours later that I needed to start all over again.

So you'll have to forgive me but I can't agree with your sentiments in any way, shape or form


I think what's sad is when people accept less from themselves than they're capable of achieving, which I think was the point the original poster was making. I was an English teacher for a while (before I came to my senses :wink:) and the kids who annoyed me were the ones who put work in that they clearly reckoned was 'good enough', when there were other kids in other classes who'd have given their eye teeth to have had the opportunity to try for the qualifications and courses the 'bright-but-couldn't-care-less' kids were offered.

There's another side to it, of course, John. When I look at the usual English Standard Grade/ Higher Grade reading lists in my own subject (English), I could weep. All those books - funny, heart-breaking, exciting, challenging, mind-blowing books in the world, and we're still making kids read 'Sunset Song' and 'Rebecca' and freakin Pillop Lurkin. That is no incentive to reach for the best that's in you, mate....:grr:

And how many kids pass right through the system without anyone ever asking themselves what those kids could do, would do, might want to do if they were once given a chance?

[LiverpoolHibs]

I think what's sad is when people accept less from themselves than they're capable of achieving, which I think was the point the original poster was making. I was an English teacher for a while (before I came to my senses :wink:) and the kids who annoyed me were the ones who put work in that they clearly reckoned was 'good enough', when there were other kids in other classes who'd have given their eye teeth to have had the opportunity to try for the qualifications and courses the 'bright-but-couldn't-care-less' kids were offered.

There's another side to it, of course, John. When I look at the usual English Standard Grade/ Higher Grade reading lists in my own subject (English), I could weep. All those books - funny, heart-breaking, exciting, challenging, mind-blowing books in the world, and we're still making kids read 'Sunset Song' and 'Rebecca' and freakin Pillop Lurkin. That is no incentive to reach for the best that's in you, mate....:grr:

Whoooaa, what's wrong with Larkin?

[--------]

I would agree that texting plays a major role. Going back and reading some of my e-mails are like double dutch. Wrong tense, descriptions, things like their/there/they're (which really annoy me when others get it wrong).

fk txtin. :grr:


Texting, Woody, is a perfectly reasonable language in which to communicate in certain circumstances. It's a language that people understand, and it has its own rules and spellings and vocabulary. The problem is when someone uses textspeak in a context where the person he/she's trying to communicate with doesn't understand.

I can't communicate in texting. It doesn't make me stupid - it's just something I haven't learned. But if I try to send a text in the same language I use in my posts on here, I'm the one who's being inappropriate - I'm the one using the 'foreign' language.

There's a huge difference between stupidity and ignorance. Stupidity is when I don't WANT to learn. Ignorance is when I come up against something I don't know - but if I'm willing to learn, I can learn - even a little, and be less ignorant than I was before.

[Jamesie]

As Morrissey once sang:

"So scared to show intelligence, it might harm their lovely careers, this world, I am afraid, is designed for crashing bores".

[Phil D. Rolls]

Sorry FR but I find that sentiment offensive in the extreme. I know you're referring to adults but many of those self same adults were once children and from my experience of working with kids who have learning difficulties they are always going to struggle to come across as anything but 'thick.' It's not because the education system let them down or that thet are just plain lazy it's because for whatever reason they just don't have the mental capacity to take in and retain information.

I worked with first year pupils in a high school and pretty much every day I encountered that situation. For example, in maths I'd spend time with kids trying to help them to do the most simple arithmetical exercises and each day I thought 'bingo, they've got it' only to find 24 hours later that I needed to start all over again.

So you'll have to forgive me but I can't agree with your sentiments in any way, shape or form

I apologise - it was a stupid thing to say.I was really getting at those who glorify ignorance. Some of the most intelligent people I have met have been poor academics for many reasons - which I am sure you will have a greater knowledge of than me.

I am sorry if anyone was hurt by the comment.

[--------]

Whoooaa, what's wrong with Larkin?


I don't like him. :wink:

[Pete]

Texting, Woody, is a perfectly reasonable language in which to communicate in certain circumstances. It's a language that people understand, and it has its own rules and spellings and vocabulary. The problem is when someone uses textspeak in a context where the person he/she's trying to communicate with doesn't understand.


The problem is that it hasn't stuck to it's own parameters. It's becoming more and more common and therefore more accepted in everyday life.

Like it or not these abbreviations have become easier to use than the formal counterparts...so have creeped into the everyday use by all levels of society.

I don't like it myself but I think we're looking at a radical change in our written language in the next few decades. It will be unrecognisable.

If the spoken word stays the same does the spelling really matter? In the past have the English, and indeed other languages, simply not evolved through time and relevant culture?

[Speedy]

I NEVER, repeat, NEVER receive a letter from any agency be it lawyers, the council or even banks that doesn't contain at least one spelling mistake or grammatical howler.

Seriously, when people get it into their heads that "it doesn't really matter" if they get the English language wrong we are lost.
Texting and emailese have been blamed for this problem. I think, however, that kids just don't read books any more and thus have no feel for how the language is spoken. The short attention syndrome has something to do with that but really it's parents who are to blame.

When was the last time you heard a parent correcting their child for using poor speech? About 1975? Yup, I thought so.

It's nothing to do with snobbery by the way. It's to do with preserving a beautiful language.

Excuse me if I am a young, uneducated idiot but I think there is an element of irony surrounding this post.

[Steve-O]

I'm a bit of a pedantic barsteward when it comes to spelling and the likes and am constantly amazed by the way people go on the total defensive when you point out an error. One of my mates in particular is like this. I point out a piece of poor spelling / grammar...response is "stop being a d!ck" when it's just a simple correction!

I'm also constantly surprised by how much of a bubble some of the young people here in New Zealand appear to live in. Not even necessarily with academic things but even apparent 'popular' culture. Never been in a nation where no female can identify any song or band that is not Lady Ga-Ga or Beyonce!

"I know the song, I just don't know the band or the name of the song" :grr:

[steakbake]

I don't think that making grammatical errors necessarily means someone is thick. In some areas it is important, but writing littered with grammatical and punctuation mistakes does not negate someone's point of view. I'd always consider the first poster to picks another persons argument apart on the basis of punctuation and grammar to have probably lost that argument. The important thing is what we say or are trying to say.

In answer to the original question in some parts of the population, I don't think it is being thick as such but more ignorance itself which is seen as being the acceptable norm. Equally, there are those who think that being knowledgeable is an undesirable quality. No-one wants to be seen to know things which would gain disapproval from their friends - we must all be equally ignorant in case someone starts to have ideas about themselves which are above their 'station'.

It also extends into a social requirement to be self depricating and modest about skills/abilities - who here would say they are 'good' at something? If you said you were 'good' at something, what would other people say or think?

Just some thoughts like, but what would I know? :paranoid: :dunno:

[Steve-O]

I don't think that making grammatical errors necessarily means someone is thick. In some areas it is important, but writing littered with grammatical and punctuation mistakes does not negate someone's point of view. I'd always consider the first poster to picks another persons argument apart on the basis of punctuation and grammar to have probably lost that argument. The important thing is what we say or are trying to say.

In answer to the original question in some parts of the population, I don't think it is being thick as such but more ignorance itself which is seen as being the acceptable norm. Equally, there are those who think that being knowledgeable is an undesirable quality. No-one wants to be seen to know things which would gain disapproval from their friends - we must all be equally ignorant in case someone starts to have ideas about themselves which are above their 'station'.

It also extends into a social requirement to be self depricating and modest about skills/abilities - who here would say they are 'good' at something? If you said you were 'good' at something, what would other people say or think?

Just some thoughts like, but what would I know? :paranoid: :dunno:

Yeah I wasn't meaning spelling and grammar errors equate to stupidity, but the attitude when it's pointed out is "so what?" as if it doesn't matter. Of course it may not be a big deal depending on the context but if these errors are later made on CV's or official documents, then it becomes a problem.

I'm good at picking out the mistakes of others :greengrin

[s.a.m]

The problem is that it hasn't stuck to it's own parameters. It's becoming more and more common and therefore more accepted in everyday life.

Like it or not these abbreviations have become easier to use than the formal counterparts...so have creeped into the everyday use by all levels of society.

I don't like it myself but I think we're looking at a radical change in our written language in the next few decades. It will be unrecognisable.

If the spoken word stays the same does the spelling really matter? In the past have the English, and indeed other languages, simply not evolved through time and relevant culture?

I think it probably does. Spoken language throughout the English speaking world varies does vary quite dramatically (and continues to evolve), whereas the received spelling and grammar are (within reason) standard. Should we lose standard written English, there's a strong possibility that, over time, the various versions would diverge to the point that they would become different languages. I'm not saying that this is right or wrong, but it would be very different to the status quo.

I see it being a bit like the difference between written Chinese and it's different spoken languages (admittedly more different than the different forms of English), in that (AFAIK) their written material and written language is universally accessible across China, but different regions have their own languages and dialects.

[Bishop Hibee]

I NEVER, repeat, NEVER receive a letter from any agency be it lawyers, the council or even banks that doesn't contain at least one spelling mistake or grammatical howler.

Seriously, when people get it into their heads that "it doesn't really matter" if they get the English language wrong we are lost.

Texting and emailese have been blamed for this problem. I think, however, that kids just don't read books any more and thus have no feel for how the language is spoken. The short attention syndrome has something to do with that but really it's parents who are to blame.

When was the last time you heard a parent correcting their child for using poor speech? About 1975? Yup, I thought so.

It's nothing to do with snobbery by the way. It's to do with preserving a beautiful language.

Aye, we're all going to hell in a handcart :rolleyes:

I corrected my children when they said for example "badest" instead of "worst".

Some of the threads on here condemning all young people and/or parents as being thick, stupid or lazy are quite incredible.

My experience of young people today is that they are far more confident and better mannered than most of the bampots I had the misfortune to be educated alongside at high school. Most of my classmates laughed when the neds reduced a teacher to a wreck and she left the classroom in tears :bitchy: Commonplace behavior in my school 1978-84.

The idea that this generation admires stupidity is simply wrong. In my humble opinion of course :greengrin

[Dashing Bob S]

Whoooaa, what's wrong with Larkin?

Reactionary? Misogynistic?

[Woody1985]

Texting, Woody, is a perfectly reasonable language in which to communicate in certain circumstances. It's a language that people understand, and it has its own rules and spellings and vocabulary. The problem is when someone uses textspeak in a context where the person he/she's trying to communicate with doesn't understand.

I can't communicate in texting. It doesn't make me stupid - it's just something I haven't learned. But if I try to send a text in the same language I use in my posts on here, I'm the one who's being inappropriate - I'm the one using the 'foreign' language.

There's a huge difference between stupidity and ignorance. Stupidity is when I don't WANT to learn. Ignorance is when I come up against something I don't know - but if I'm willing to learn, I can learn - even a little, and be less ignorant than I was before.

Sorry, that wasn't meant to be my point, my point was that I find that increasingly when communicating in written format such as on here, in e-mails or documents, I find that my written text is starting to become blurred causing me to make stupid mistakes.

When texting I tend to write your and you're as your all of the time (partly because my ' is broken and writing youre looks stupid!). I then automatically do it when writing due to the frequency of doing it in text. Sort of like drumming it into myself. I've now started writing everything out as it should when texting, even without the '.

[LiverpoolHibs]

I don't like him. :wink:

For shame.


Reactionary? Misogynistic?

No, I don't think that's actually true - though it tends to be the accepted position now - not it wouldn't have much of a bearing on his brilliance as a poet even if it were. In fact I think he's actually considerably more politically radical than he's ever given credit for and than is suggested in his letters (of which Martin Amis has written a pretty sturdy if not entirely convincing defence). See 'Here' (http://www.philiplarkin.com/poems/here.htm).

[Jonnyboy]

I apologise - it was a stupid thing to say.I was really getting at those who glorify ignorance. Some of the most intelligent people I have met have been poor academics for many reasons - which I am sure you will have a greater knowledge of than me.

I am sorry if anyone was hurt by the comment.

No worries FR. As you probably guessed it's a subject close to my heart :greengrin

[--------]

Whoooaa, what's wrong with Larkin?


As I say, I don't like him. He bores me.

And I wonder why he stays on the reading lists year after year when there are so many other modern poets in English who deserve a reading.

And then I remember some of my colleagues all those years ago, whose worst nightmare was to have to read and teach something new, instead of the same old reading list from 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980.....

And I know why he's still on the list....

[Dashing Bob S]

For shame.



No, I don't think that's actually true - though it tends to be the accepted position now - not it wouldn't have much of a bearing on his brilliance as a poet even if it were. In fact I think he's actually considerably more politically radical than he's ever given credit for and than is suggested in his letters (of which Martin Amis has written a pretty sturdy if not entirely convincing defence). See 'Here' (http://www.philiplarkin.com/poems/here.htm).

As he's given no credit whatsoever for political radicalism, I can't really refute that contention. But because you like his poetry (as do I) doesn't mean that you have to try to appropriate him politically. A very good poet, yes, but also with a pronounced tendency to be a crashing right-wing bore, particularly in his latter alcohol-sodden years.

[LiverpoolHibs]

As I say, I don't like him. He bores me.

And I wonder why he stays on the reading lists year after year when there are so many other modern poets in English who deserve a reading.

And then I remember some of my colleagues all those years ago, whose worst nightmare was to have to read and teach something new, instead of the same old reading list from 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980.....

And I know why he's still on the list....

I'm struggling to think of a single British poet since the Second World War more deserving of inclusion on a school reading list.


As he's given no credit whatsoever for political radicalism, I can't really refute that contention. But because you like his poetry (as do I) doesn't mean that you have to try to appropriate him politically.

Oh, I'm not trying to do that. That's why I said, 'not that it would have any bearing on his brilliance as a poet even if it were true'.

Although there's been some critical reappraisal (Stephen Cooper and S.K. Chatterjee notably) of his politics so the first sentence isn't really fair either.

[Dashing Bob S]

I'm struggling to think of a single British poet since the Second World War more deserving of inclusion on a school reading list.



Oh, I'm not trying to do that. That's why I said, 'not that it would have any bearing on his brilliance as a poet even if it were true'.


Although there's been some critical reappraisal (Stephen Cooper and S.K. Chatterjee notably) of his politics so the first sentence isn't really fair either.

1. Yes you did, and apos from me. Came over more snippy here than I intended, as I always found him thoroughly reactionary.

2. Really? Wasn't aware of this, will check it out. Thanks for the refs.

[Hibbyradge]

I must say I've met a few people who when in big groups of people just seem to come out with ridiculous statements or questions, like asking who George W. Bush is or what country Europe is in. The general response from people seems to be to laugh and then say something like "ah you're so funny, what are you like".

Now maybe some people are genuinely very, very stupid. However, I do think sometimes people pretend to be more thick than they actually are, which confuses me as I wouldn't consider being really stupid as something you'd want everyone to think of you.

I'm thinking of Jade Goody, who went on Big Brother and said a load of daft things which everyone loved her for, before people realised she was a horrible racist, and then she died and everyone realised she was actually a princess from the wrong side of the tracks. Now if you watch all these programmes there's always someone who thinks Cameroon is a coconut treat, and they always do well.

If this is what people watch and learn from, I'm guessing that if you were a bit insecure about your lack of intelligence, instead of worrying people will laugh at you for it behind your back, you'd be better to just make a load of stupid remarks as apparently Big Brother teaches us all that it's funny to be thick and you'll get rewarded for it. Am I being harsh or is quite depressing that people think this way? I'm not claiming to be a genius and I don't think being brainy is the most important thing, but if people are growing up trying to be stupid it surely isn't a good thing.

You'd have to be a bit thick to watch Big Brother, no? :wink:

[Dinkydoo]

I used to find this at school and still do with people's 'I can't do it' or 'I'm too stupid attitude'.

A few guys were smart but they never tried and just ****ed around to fit in with all their mates who genuinely were stupid.

I never went with that route although those guys were my mates, I was in the top classes and used to get the piss taken sometimes but gave as good as I got. I wasn't interested in being mates with all of the swots as I just didn't have anything in common with them.

I found that I was never as good mates with some of the guys in the lower classes than I would have if I had ****ed around as well. It sort of left me stuck in the middle which is probably why I couldn't be arsed with high school.

One or two have since said that they wished they did try now to get a decent job because they knew they could.


Same here mate. I used to always get the "but you're clever." or "You're a swot." to which I used to always reply, No, I just tried :faf:

Some people seem to think that intelligence is something that occurs naturally - it does to a certain extent, but if you don't nuture it then you just become one of those twits that use lots of buzzwords to make themselves sound clever :rolleyes:, than actually knowing what your talking about.

In ref to the OP, I used to hang about with a group of lads that one or two of them would constantly ask really daft questions. Or in turn do really daft things (usually illegal) to which the majority of the group would say in response "Oh aye, but he's a character.". :blah:

Needless to say, I only actually speak with a few of the genuinely decent guys out of my old circle of friends as many of them have never grown up.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think one of the things that is worth considering is that some people are conditioned to fail from an early age. When presented with the opportunity to succeed, they can find it overwhelming and deliberately fail through self defeating behaviour.

Faced with the possibility that the world could be different from the way they have always had it explained to them, many kids will stick with what they know.

[1875godsgift]

Sorry, that wasn't meant to be my point, my point was that I find that increasingly when communicating in written format such as on here, in e-mails or documents, I find that my written text is starting to become blurred causing me to make stupid mistakes.

When texting I tend to write your and you're as your all of the time (partly because my ' is broken and writing youre looks stupid!). I then automatically do it when writing due to the frequency of doing it in text. Sort of like drumming it into myself. I've now started writing everything out as it should when texting, even without the '.
Try tapping " ur ", it's quicker!
:greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

try tapping " ur ", it's quicker!
:greengrin

lol!

[Betty Boop]

lol!

Pmsl!

[Phil D. Rolls]

Pmsl!

wtf?

[Betty Boop]

wtf?

Lmao, ttyl!

[zemmamarama]

I used to find this at school and still do with people's 'I can't do it' or 'I'm too stupid attitude'.

A few guys were smart but they never tried and just ****ed around to fit in with all their mates who genuinely were stupid.

I never went with that route although those guys were my mates, I was in the top classes and used to get the piss taken sometimes but gave as good as I got. I wasn't interested in being mates with all of the swots as I just didn't have anything in common with them.

I found that I was never as good mates with some of the guys in the lower classes than I would have if I had ****ed around as well. It sort of left me stuck in the middle which is probably why I couldn't be arsed with high school.

One or two have since said that they wished they did try now to get a decent job because they knew they could.

Are you me? [very confused smiley]

[ArabHibee]

Lmao, ttyl!

rotflmfao, if you please! :greengrin

[Rory89]

A girl I know has just updated her Facebook status to "Am going to try from know on to come accross as more intelegent". I know this isn't meant as an ironic joke as she simply doesn't have irony at her disposal.

Surely this shows that people pretend to be more daft then they are? I actually find it hard to believe anybody would come out with that entirely on purpose. Point proven I reckon.

[Removed]

A girl I know has just updated her Facebook status to "Am going to try from know on to come accross as more intelegent". I know this isn't meant as an ironic joke as she simply doesn't have irony at her disposal.

Surely this shows that people pretend to be more daft then they are? I actually find it hard to believe anybody would come out with that entirely on purpose. Point proven I reckon.

Is she from Dundee?

[Rory89]

Is she from Dundee?

No Largs, it's that way.

Don't know which way I'm pointing? Exactly. First night I met her somebody asked her where Largs was and instead of telling the person where it was in relation to other places in Scotland, she pointed and went "that way". :bitchy:

People say "literally" when they don't mean it, but some of the stuff she comes out with is literally unbelievable.

[Removed]

No Largs, it's that way.

Don't know which way I'm pointing? Exactly. First night I met her somebody asked her where Largs was and instead of telling the person where it was in relation to other places in Scotland, she pointed and went "that way". :bitchy:

People say "literally" when they don't mean it, but some of the stuff she comes out with is literally unbelievable.

Fair enough. Sounds like she's from Dundee though :agree: Never met anyone from Largs but I've taken a mental note to look out for one.

[PeeJay]

All those books - funny, heart-breaking, exciting, challenging, mind-blowing books in the world, and we're still making kids read 'Sunset Song' and 'Rebecca' and freakin Pillop Lurkin. That is no incentive to reach for the best that's in you, mate....

My old English teacher made me (along with everyone else!) read "Sunset Song" - it's certainly one of the best books I've ever read. Doddie it is, without doubt, "... funny, heart-breaking, exciting, challenging and mind-blowing". Indeed from a Scottish point-of-view it is unsurpassed (IMO) - but then what would you suggest in its stead then? Cue long list ....

Come to think of it, I still like Larkin too - so there!:bye:

[--------]

My old English teacher made me (along with everyone else!) read "Sunset Song" - it's certainly one of the best books I've ever read. Doddie it is, without doubt, "... funny, heart-breaking, exciting, challenging and mind-blowing". Indeed from a Scottish point-of-view it is unsurpassed (IMO) - but then what would you suggest in its stead then? Cue long list ....

Come to think of it, I still like Larkin too - so there!:bye:


I think you're trying too hard to cultivate "admirable qualities", PeeJay. :devil:

But everyone to his or her (or its) own taste, I always say.

Did you ever read the other two-thirds of the trilogy?

BTW, if you want a genuinely great Scottish novel of the 20th century - one that isn't Kailyard crossed with bad D H Lawrence - I'd strongly suggest you try Alasdair Gray's "Lanark".

[s.a.m]

Fair enough. Sounds like she's from Dundee though :agree: Never met anyone from Largs but I've taken a mental note to look out for one.

I'm from Largs. I would like to make absolutely clear that I am a different person from Largs to the one Rory89 knows. If you were to ask me where Largs is, I would not point and say,"Over there!"

[lapsedhibee]

if you want a genuinely great Scottish novel of the 20th century - one that isn't Kailyard crossed with bad D H Lawrence - I'd strongly suggest you try Alasdair Gray's "Lanark".
Amen to that. A fabulous thing.

[marinello59]

I'm from Largs. I would like to make absolutely clear that I am a different person from Largs to the one Rory89 knows. If you were to ask me where Largs is, I would not point and say,"Over there!"

So you are saying you don't even know where Largs is?:devil:

[PeeJay]

I think you're trying too hard to cultivate "admirable qualities", PeeJay. :devil::greengrin

But everyone to his or her (or its) own taste, I always say.
Not possible for everyone to have their own "taste" surely, but anyone may indeed like what they want!

Did you ever read the other two-thirds of the trilogy?
YES - I own up to it - "Sunset Song" was by far the more enjoyable read though.

BTW, if you want agenuinely great Scottish novel of the 20th century - one that isn't Kailyard crossed with bad D H Lawrence - I'd strongly suggest you try Alasdair Gray's "Lanark".

Thanks for the tip - will do!:thumbsup:

[--------]

I think you're trying too hard to cultivate "admirable qualities", PeeJay. :devil::greengrin

But everyone to his or her (or its) own taste, I always say.
Not possible for everyone to have their own "taste" surely, but anyone may indeed like what they want!

Did you ever read the other two-thirds of the trilogy?
YES - I own up to it - "Sunset Song" was by far the more enjoyable read though.

BTW, if you want agenuinely great Scottish novel of the 20th century - one that isn't Kailyard crossed with bad D H Lawrence - I'd strongly suggest you try Alasdair Gray's "Lanark".

Thanks for the tip - will do!:thumbsup:

I bow to you - I could only get through SS because I happened to be teaching it at the time. I REALLY don't like LGG.

Then I read CH and GG, because one of the kids in the class was reading them, and as I read them, I began to tire of life.

I then read some of LGG's short stories, and I came to the conclusion that LGG is a fiddle with only one string - everything he wrote seemed to merge into one enormous, ghastly blob of something I'd really rather forget. But that's as likely to be a demonstration of my own shortcomings as a reader as it is of LGG's shortcomings as a writer.

What really irks me isn't the folk who read SS and like it - it's the lazy boring English teachers who can't be bothered to read or teach anything new. Like it's ALWAYS "All Quiet on the Western Front" for war novels, and "Rebecca" (what a stupid woman that girl was), and "Cry, the Beloved Country", and "1984" - I taught those in 1975, and they're STILL on the freakin reading lists. They're all good novels - it's the teachers who can't shift themselves away from the TV to read something new and maybe prepare a teaching plan for it? GRR.

I hope you enjoy "Lanark". Be warned - it's different, but IMO it's the greatest Scots novel since James Hogg's "Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner".