Football Rumours says they're going bust (again)

[CorrieHibs]

Hearts will be placed into administration within the next week. Romanov has decided to cut his losses as he is unable to break the old firm in Scotland. No buyers as of yet however this will put hearts bottom of the league after the 10 points penalty grim times for the jam tarts!

Imagine if this is true. :thumbsup:

[blackpoolhibs]

Hearts will be placed into administration within the next week. Romanov has decided to cut his losses as he is unable to break the old firm in Scotland. No buyers as of yet however this will put hearts bottom of the league after the 10 points penalty grim times for the jam tarts!

Imagine if this is true. :thumbsup:

I dont believe a word that comes out of that site, but on this occasion i will make an exception.:wink:

[CMac1988]

If only...

:jamboak:

[MB62]

Hearts will be placed into administration within the next week. Romanov has decided to cut his losses as he is unable to break the old firm in Scotland. No buyers as of yet however this will put hearts bottom of the league after the 10 points penalty grim times for the jam tarts!

Imagine if this is true. :thumbsup:

The mole that released this extremely reliable info had better watch out because Mad Vlad will be after him :wink: :greengrin

[MacBean]

:pray: :pray: :pray: :pray:

[Andy74]

I dont believe a word that comes out of that site, but on this occasion i will make an exception.:wink:

The fact is they ain't trading out of this mess. They must be, each year, creeping further to the point where no more extensions are possible, no more debt for equity swaps can be done and no more £12m of player sales.

One day soon then this much anticipated event will happen. Why not this week?

[blackpoolhibs]

The fact is they ain't trading out of this mess. They must be, each year, creeping further to the point where no more extensions are possible, no more debt for equity swaps can be done and no more £12m of player sales.

One day soon then this much anticipated event will happen. Why not this week?

Maybe because they owe it to themselves? :greengrin

[zemmagic07]

The mole that released this extremely reliable info had better watch out because Mad Vlad will be after him :wink: :greengrin

Jamie? :greengrin

[jonty]

Jamie? :greengrin

Adrian? :greengrin

[matty_f]

The fact is they ain't trading out of this mess. They must be, each year, creeping further to the point where no more extensions are possible, no more debt for equity swaps can be done and no more £12m of player sales.

One day soon then this much anticipated event will happen. Why not this week?

How long have the administration rumours been doing the rounds though? So far, they've had a 0% success rate in predicting the date of the demise of the bloodied-turd ones.

You're right with the first paragraph, but I think there'd be significantly more signs that they were close to hitting the wall than there are now, IMHO.

[Killiehibbie]

One of these times the rumour will be true. They can't go on losing money at the rate they are.

[dangermouse]

The fact is they ain't trading out of this mess. They must be, each year, creeping further to the point where no more extensions are possible, no more debt for equity swaps can be done and no more £12m of player sales.

One day soon then this much anticipated event will happen. Why not this week?

The £17M due in February to UKIO probably means the title deeds to Tynecastle will be winging their way to Lithuania in the near future.

[bingo70]

The fact is they ain't trading out of this mess. They must be, each year, creeping further to the point where no more extensions are possible, no more debt for equity swaps can be done and no more £12m of player sales.

One day soon then this much anticipated event will happen. Why not this week?

Because it was predicted to happen on that nonsense football rumours website :wink:

Not a dig at the OP but i've absolutely no idea why people look at that site let alone lift stories from there and put them up here, it's just people making up things.

[LancsHibs]

If Carlsberg made Christmas's.........:thumbsup::bye::jamboak:

[Dr Jimmy]

Hearts will be placed into administration within the next week. Romanov has decided to cut his losses as he is unable to break the old firm in Scotland. No buyers as of yet however this will put hearts bottom of the league after the 10 points penalty grim times for the jam tarts!

Imagine if this is true. :thumbsup:

It would have been leaked throughout Edinburgh before this "rumours" site got it. The bottom line is they only owe money to themselves therefore the debt is the same as borrowing from your granny or your ..... blah, blah, blah :blah:

[If Only]

If only...

:jamboak:


Hey thats my name!!!!"!

[Andy74]

Because it was predicted to happen on that nonsense football rumours website :wink:

Not a dig at the OP but i've absolutely no idea why people look at that site let alone lift stories from there and put them up here, it's just people making up things.

Broken clocks are wrong twice a day and all that.

It will happen, so one day one of those stories we write off will be correct and it will all end.:greengrin

[Killiehibbie]

It would have been leaked throughout Edinburgh before this "rumours" site got it. The bottom line is they only owe money to themselves therefore the debt is the same as borrowing from your granny or your ..... blah, blah, blah :blah:

If your Granny gets you to sign an IOU and you can't pay her back when she needs or wants it you're in trouble.

[1950's hibbie]

Broken clocks are wrong twice a day and all that.

It will happen, so one day one of those stories we write off will be correct and it will all end.:greengrin
Actually broken clocks are right twice a day.:thumbsup:

[1875godsgift]

Actually broken clocks are right twice a day.:thumbsup:
Well my clock's broken and it's wrong at least twice a day.......

[bingo70]

Broken clocks are wrong twice a day and all that.

It will happen, so one day one of those stories we write off will be correct and it will all end.:greengrin

Think i'll wait till I hear what Bawheids source has to say about it :cool2:

Seriously though, i'm normally all over these rumours getting more excited than most about there demise as like you i just think it's got to happen one day, it's just a matter of time, it's just the fact it was on that website immediately says to me it's a lot of pish.

I would be absolutely delighted to come on here and eat some humble pie if i'm wrong though :agree:

[Andy74]

Actually broken clocks are right twice a day.:thumbsup:

That's true as well. :greengrin

[sixtwo]

I don't think administration is likely. Why would vlad allow his cash cow to die?

He has allowed the debt to rise to £35-£45m. His other companies UKIO & Ubig will be charging at least 2% arrangement fee annually to keep this facility. They will also be charging a hefty interest margin. Almost every penny generated from jambos will go to servicing the debt. Player sales, Season ticket sales, merchandising etc, every penny will go to vlad.
He will reduce the club to signing amateaur players and he will let every player of value go when their contracts expire and replace them with nobodies. The club will run on a budget akin to a 1st or 2nd division team.

He will squeeze every penny out of the club for the next few years and then, when the property market has recovered, he will sell hearts for the value of tynecastle!

Hearts annual turnover is approx £10m. After taking almost every penny for the next few years, he will leave. He bought hearts for approx £17m iirc, if he sells them for say £25m the value of the stadium in, say, 5 years. It would have been quite profitible for him. He may claim that he is writing of the remaining debt, however, the debt has been artificially inflated anyway. There are numerous entries in the accounts which raise suspicions. Especially the millions that have gone to ''registration fees''!

Ofcourse, I am speculating. I have no idea how this man works. I have merely put across a simple alternative to administration.

Either scenario suits me. Sudden death or death by a thousand cuts. The future is bleak for the 'big' team!:greengrin

[.Sean.]

:pray: Please please please.

It would seem something on the site may finally have an element of truth :faf:

[Aldo]

Wot a lot o Single fish.....however wouldnt just be a 10 point deduction it would mean Div 3 footie would it not.......look at Livi.


Why are they in debt though????? If all 400000000,0000000,0000000 put a pound in for a whip round they would be the richest club in the world. :devil:

[jacomo]

Wot a lot o Single fish.....however wouldnt just be a 10 point deduction it would mean Div 3 footie would it not.......look at Livi.

Why are they in debt though????? If all 400000000,0000000,0000000 put a pound in for a whip round they would be the richest club in the world. :devil:

Yup, the precedent has been set... I think the SPL would really have to expel Hearts, though that would cause unparalleled fixture chaos.

[blackpoolhibs]

Yup, the precedent has been set... I think the SPL would really have to expel Hearts, though that would cause unparalleled fixture chaos.

I'm sure we'd manage.:wink:

[Dibben]

If Carlsberg made Christmas's.........:thumbsup::bye::jamboak:

:agree:

:thumbsup:

BH.

[The_Todd]

Football Rumours would have you believe today's date was January 3rd 2086 if it thought it could get away with that.

[Dashing Bob S]

Yup, the precedent has been set... I think the SPL would really have to expel Hearts, though that would cause unparalleled fixture chaos.

I think we all have to be prepared to make sacrifices. Just give every side a 7-0 win against them.

[iwasthere1972]

Actually broken clocks are right twice a day.:thumbsup:

Not if one of the hands are missing. :wink:

[oldbiker]

Because it was predicted to happen on that nonsense football rumours website :wink:

Not a dig at the OP but i've absolutely no idea why people look at that site let alone lift stories from there and put them up here, it's just people making up things.

But I like reading fantasy stuff

[Moulin Yarns]

Football Rumours would have you believe today's date was January 3rd 2086 if it thought it could get away with that.

Oh no!! I missed my retirement do :wink:

[BSEJVT]

I wouldnt want Hearts to go into Admin just yet .

Once the Wallace's Drivers, Conglaves etc have gone fine.

Just not now please.

I would want them to suffer more, have more complaints about how badly they were shafted by Vlad to ****** on, further years of pitiful football and humiliation and have no player of any ability left on the books before they went.

I would want to sicken thousands more of their supporters permanently before I offered them any chance of redemption.

[bawheid]

Think i'll wait till I hear what Bawheids source has to say about it :cool2:


My source was in a meeting and his Blackberry wasn't working...errr...or something.

One snippit I did hear today was that Steven Fletcher will be sold in January to pay for the new stand. Wait...that's not right...

Ummm...

Aye, Hearts are oot the game. If only they'd listened to Chris Robinson eh?

[BEEJ]

I wouldnt want Hearts to go into Admin just yet .

Once the Wallace's Drivers, Conglaves etc have gone fine.

Just not now please.

I would want them to suffer more, have more complaints about how badly they were shafted by Vlad to ****** on, further years of pitiful football and humiliation and have no player of any ability left on the books before they went.

I would want to sicken thousands more of their supporters permanently before I offered them any chance of redemption.
I was so much in agreement with that post until the last bit in bold. :greengrin

Redemption? What on earth for? :confused:

[Mibbes Aye]

I don't think administration is likely. Why would vlad allow his cash cow to die?

He has allowed the debt to rise to £35-£45m. His other companies UKIO & Ubig will be charging at least 2% arrangement fee annually to keep this facility. They will also be charging a hefty interest margin. Almost every penny generated from jambos will go to servicing the debt. Player sales, Season ticket sales, merchandising etc, every penny will go to vlad.
He will reduce the club to signing amateaur players and he will let every player of value go when their contracts expire and replace them with nobodies. The club will run on a budget akin to a 1st or 2nd division team.

He will squeeze every penny out of the club for the next few years and then, when the property market has recovered, he will sell hearts for the value of tynecastle!

Hearts annual turnover is approx £10m. After taking almost every penny for the next few years, he will leave. He bought hearts for approx £17m iirc, if he sells them for say £25m the value of the stadium in, say, 5 years. It would have been quite profitible for him. He may claim that he is writing of the remaining debt, however, the debt has been artificially inflated anyway. There are numerous entries in the accounts which raise suspicions. Especially the millions that have gone to ''registration fees''!

Ofcourse, I am speculating. I have no idea how this man works. I have merely put across a simple alternative to administration.

Either scenario suits me. Sudden death or death by a thousand cuts. The future is bleak for the 'big' team!:greengrin

I think it's right to highlight that Homfc will look to avoid administration. It's a situation where Vlad loses a lot of control, although he would still be the main creditor. He'll avoid it if he can and either continue to wring them dry and then cash in, to a buyer, when he's squeezed every last drop.... OR he'll pull the plug and liquidate, if he's unable to keep all the plates spinning.

Taking the long-term view, he's almost certainly played it utterly right, if "right" means taking a football club with some assets and a decent-size support and systematically exploiting them for every last penny :agree:

The variable in this has always been the Homfc support. If they had had the nous to suss what was going on early enough, they might have been able to do something. Even then, they would have had to have found the collective spirit, courage, mettle, call it what you will, to mobilise and stand up to the Admiral.

Sadly that bravery, that willingness to fight for the team you claim to love, seems to be lacking in Johnny Yam. Which is why their future involves a swift descent down the pan.

Och well, never mind...:greengrin

[degenerated]

according to one of the plums on kickback, who always pretends to be in the know, their non playing staff were only paid half wages this week :cool2:

[EH6 Hibby]

What's the deal with their accounts? Was their year end not the same as ours and ours were done in October were they not? I seem to remember them being fined or something for not getting them done in time with last years accounts, so when is the latest they can publish them? :confused:

[BEEJ]

What's the deal with their accounts? Was their year end not the same as ours and ours were done in October were they not? I seem to remember them being fined or something for not getting them done in time with last years accounts, so when is the latest they can publish them? :confused:
Nine months from our year-end takes you to April 2010 as the deadline for submitting accounts for 08/09 to Companies House. So if they are the same then there is still some time to wait. :I'm waiti

[HFC 0-7]

I don't think administration is likely. Why would vlad allow his cash cow to die?

He has allowed the debt to rise to £35-£45m. His other companies UKIO & Ubig will be charging at least 2% arrangement fee annually to keep this facility. They will also be charging a hefty interest margin. Almost every penny generated from jambos will go to servicing the debt. Player sales, Season ticket sales, merchandising etc, every penny will go to vlad.
He will reduce the club to signing amateaur players and he will let every player of value go when their contracts expire and replace them with nobodies. The club will run on a budget akin to a 1st or 2nd division team.

He will squeeze every penny out of the club for the next few years and then, when the property market has recovered, he will sell hearts for the value of tynecastle!

Hearts annual turnover is approx £10m. After taking almost every penny for the next few years, he will leave. He bought hearts for approx £17m iirc, if he sells them for say £25m the value of the stadium in, say, 5 years. It would have been quite profitible for him. He may claim that he is writing of the remaining debt, however, the debt has been artificially inflated anyway. There are numerous entries in the accounts which raise suspicions. Especially the millions that have gone to ''registration fees''!

Ofcourse, I am speculating. I have no idea how this man works. I have merely put across a simple alternative to administration.

Either scenario suits me. Sudden death or death by a thousand cuts. The future is bleak for the 'big' team!:greengrin

It can only be a cash cow for so long. I think it must be approaching the point where Vlad is thinking at what point can I leave without making a loss. Vlad will make sure eveything goes to his bank without him making a loss. UNIG that he set up own a lot of other bits and pieces and UBIG apparently owes money to other banks, not just Ukio. Mads plan will be to fold UBIG, by that time UBIG will have handed anything they have already to Ukio and any money UBIG still owe wont need paid as they will be bust and all their assets will be with Ukio. vlads not stupid, he probably planned it from the begining.

[Peevemor]

I'm not suggesting that this latest rumour is true, but it wouldn't surpise me if it happened now. The season ticket money they got in during the summer will be used up by now. There is no imaginable way that they can trade themselves out of the financial mess they're in, so what does Vlad do? Continue to subsidise them via UBIG (more money down the drain) or pull the plug and cut his losses?

[Mibbes Aye]

I'm not suggesting that this latest rumour is true, but it wouldn't surpise me if it happened now. The season ticket money they got in during the summer will be used up by now. There is no imaginable way that they can trade themselves out of the financial mess they're in, so what does Vlad do? Continue to subsidise them via UBIG (more money down the drain) or pull the plug and cut his losses?

I say put it to the vote :agree:

And I'm voting "Pull the Plug":thumbsup:

Do I text or just push the red button? :greengrin

[greenginger]

Vlad won't let them fold until he's tried the 5 year season ticket trick.

The Yams would queue up to hand over 5 years season ticket money to "invest" in the Club's future only for Vlad to shaft them once again!

[EH6 Hibby]

Nine months from our year-end takes you to April 2010 as the deadline for submitting accounts for 08/09 to Companies House. So if they are the same then there is still some time to wait. :I'm waiti

Ah shame, although the fact that we published ours months ago would suggest that they are having problems getting the auditors to sign off on their's again I'd say. I remember it being discussed that because Hearts are worth less than their debt, that UBIG's accounts needed to be submitted along with Hearts, is this the case?

[Danderhall Hibs]

My source was in a meeting and his Blackberry wasn't working...errr...or something.

One snippit I did hear today was that Steven Fletcher will be sold in January to pay for the new stand. Wait...that's not right...

Ummm...

Aye, Hearts are oot the game. If only they'd listened to Chris Robinson eh?

:greengrin You heard anything about the new stand? I heard something last week that something might be happening very soon. No more info than that (that I can post on here) but if anything does happen soon I'll be on here to refer you to this post, claiming it as an exclusive. :cool2:

[AugustaHibs]

Hearts F.C Someone has offered to buy out Romanov. he's not selling, as the offer is way less than he paid for the club.:confused::rolleyes:

[bawheid]

:greengrin You heard anything about the new stand? I heard something last week that something might be happening very soon. No more info than that (that I can post on here) but if anything does happen soon I'll be on here to refer you to this post, claiming it as an exclusive. :cool2:

Good work there DH. :agree:

There's a thread on the PM board about the new stand. I might just rip it off and post it on here as my own exclusive.

:stirrer: :devil:

[BEEJ]

I remember it being discussed that because Hearts are worth less than their debt, that UBIG's accounts needed to be submitted along with Hearts, is this the case?
Could be. :dunno:

You may need to refer that question to Sergey or Caversham Green.

[Nailrod]

It can only be a cash cow for so long. <snip>.
It's not a cash cow at all. A business can only be a cash cow if it's generating a significant operating profit in readily realisable assets that the owner can milk.

Hearts are making huge operating losses and have been for years. Vlad/UKIO have managed to extract small amounts of money from one-off deals like the Gordon transfer, but nothing like the amount of money they have put in. UKIO charging Hearts 'interest' that can't be paid is a meaningless paper exercise. All it does is add to the debt mountain, which already far exceeds the value of all Hearts remaining realisable assets (ie Tynie, the deeds of which will have made their way to Lithuania years ago). The only way Hearts could conceivably pay off the debt is to suddenly discover about three 10 million quid-rated players.

We'll know the end is coming when Hearts start to default on their operating debts - eg staff wages. But before that expect to see the Season Tickets go on sale in a 'never to be repeated offer' (ie a last deperate attempt to bring in some ready cash).

To be honest, I was kind of expecting them to go on sale about Christmas time this year, as they'll have to be brought forward every year to plug the operating income gap. If they don't go on sale early in the New Year it will suggest that Vlad has found some much-needed alternative source of finance.

[BSEJVT]

I was so much in agreement with that post until the last bit in bold. :greengrin

Redemption? What on earth for? :confused:

To suffer further arsing around the 3rd division for a few years before they finally give up the ghost forever.

We would soon see how many of the 400.000 diehards wanted to follow the big team through all that.

Anything that prolongs their suffering for as long as possible works for me.
:greengrin

[Steve-O]

Boring.

Please come back when such rumours are no longer rumours but FACT :agree:

[M8UDB]

The site has to get something right soon so :pray::pray::pray::pray: let this be the time :thumbsup:

[Dashing Bob S]

I think it's right to highlight that Homfc will look to avoid administration. It's a situation where Vlad loses a lot of control, although he would still be the main creditor. He'll avoid it if he can and either continue to wring them dry and then cash in, to a buyer, when he's squeezed every last drop.... OR he'll pull the plug and liquidate, if he's unable to keep all the plates spinning.

Taking the long-term view, he's almost certainly played it utterly right, if "right" means taking a football club with some assets and a decent-size support and systematically exploiting them for every last penny :agree:

The variable in this has always been the Homfc support. If they had had the nous to suss what was going on early enough, they might have been able to do something. Even then, they would have had to have found the collective spirit, courage, mettle, call it what you will, to mobilise and stand up to the Admiral.

Sadly that bravery, that willingness to fight for the team you claim to love, seems to be lacking in Johnny Yam. Which is why their future involves a swift descent down the pan.

Och well, never mind...:greengrin

Sad indeed. When you think of how they single-handedly won two World Wars, it goes to show the decrease in the quality of your average Yam since those halcyon days. I blame the SFA, they're obviously putting something into the West Edinburgh water supply.

[HFC 0-7]

It's not a cash cow at all. A business can only be a cash cow if it's generating a significant operating profit in readily realisable assets that the owner can milk.

Hearts are making huge operating losses and have been for years. Vlad/UKIO have managed to extract small amounts of money from one-off deals like the Gordon transfer, but nothing like the amount of money they have put in. UKIO charging Hearts 'interest' that can't be paid is a meaningless paper exercise. All it does is add to the debt mountain, which already far exceeds the value of all Hearts remaining realisable assets (ie Tynie, the deeds of which will have made their way to Lithuania years ago). The only way Hearts could conceivably pay off the debt is to suddenly discover about three 10 million quid-rated players.

We'll know the end is coming when Hearts start to default on their operating debts - eg staff wages. But before that expect to see the Season Tickets go on sale in a 'never to be repeated offer' (ie a last deperate attempt to bring in some ready cash).

To be honest, I was kind of expecting them to go on sale about Christmas time this year, as they'll have to be brought forward every year to plug the operating income gap. If they don't go on sale early in the New Year it will suggest that Vlad has found some much-needed alternative source of finance.

Not true im afraid. Vlad set up this company, UBIG, so that Ukio wont becompletely exposed. Hearts owe money to Ukio and that is the money that is due in February, which can be almost cleared with the deeds to Tynie. Ukio have been making money through transfer sales and throught the servicing costs for the debt. When you look at this whole thing you need to see what Vlad has put in, he has only really put in the 17 mill that is owed in Feb. UBIG have put money in, which has borrowed andsecured from various banks including Ukio, but these debts are also secured because of the other companies assets that UBIG own. Vlad can put UBIG and Hearts to the wall tomorrow. Selling Tynie will pay for the 17 mil loan, Ukio will cover UBIG debts by taking all the rest of the assetts UBIG have, so all debts to Ukio are paid meaning Vlad has made a profit all this time through Hearts paying the servicing costs of their debt.

[MyJo]

It's not a cash cow at all. A business can only be a cash cow if it's generating a significant operating profit in readily realisable assets that the owner can milk.

Hearts are making huge operating losses and have been for years. Vlad/UKIO have managed to extract small amounts of money from one-off deals like the Gordon transfer, but nothing like the amount of money they have put in. UKIO charging Hearts 'interest' that can't be paid is a meaningless paper exercise. All it does is add to the debt mountain, which already far exceeds the value of all Hearts remaining realisable assets (ie Tynie, the deeds of which will have made their way to Lithuania years ago). The only way Hearts could conceivably pay off the debt is to suddenly discover about three 10 million quid-rated players.

We'll know the end is coming when Hearts start to default on their operating debts - eg staff wages. But before that expect to see the Season Tickets go on sale in a 'never to be repeated offer' (ie a last deperate attempt to bring in some ready cash).

To be honest, I was kind of expecting them to go on sale about Christmas time this year, as they'll have to be brought forward every year to plug the operating income gap. If they don't go on sale early in the New Year it will suggest that Vlad has found some much-needed alternative source of finance.

If building up massive levels of debt with interest payable to a bank that you owe over 5 years isn't milking it then i don't know what is......that's not to mention the "registration fees" to Kaunas for the 843 lithuanian's they have had on loan and other such accounting "irregularities" like taking in £13m in player sales yet only reducing the debt by £6m that year.

Assuming Vlads "investment" in buying the club was about £4m (robinson sold 19.6% to him for £867k and he owns about 85% of the shares iirc) and he has just increased the debt year on year rather than spending his personal wealth i think it would be fair to say that he will have recouped his £4m through various means.

[Caversham Green]

Nine months from our year-end takes you to April 2010 as the deadline for submitting accounts for 08/09 to Companies House. So if they are the same then there is still some time to wait. :I'm waiti

Hearts are still a plc which means their accounts are due within six months of the year end. That makes the deadline 31 January - a week before a 17.6m debt falls due for payment. They have disregarded the filing deadlines in the past few years (incurring fines in the process), but if ever there was a time to get the accounts submitted on time it's this year. They could then use the AGM to address the problem of that debt by increasing the share capital if that is their intention. An interesting January coming up for our pink chums...


Ah shame, although the fact that we published ours months ago would suggest that they are having problems getting the auditors to sign off on their's again I'd say. I remember it being discussed that because Hearts are worth less than their debt, that UBIG's accounts needed to be submitted along with Hearts, is this the case?

HOMFC are insolvent (profoundly so IMHO) so they depend on another company to meet their debts as they fall due. One of the auditor's duties is to satisfy himself that they will be able to do so for a period of 12 months from the date he signs the audit report. To do this he needs to see the lending company's accounts to ensure that they have the wherewithal to support HOMFC. UBIG refused to provide these accounts to the auditor last year so he had no alternative but to qualify his report.

[Caversham Green]

Not true im afraid. Vlad set up this company, UBIG, so that Ukio wont becompletely exposed. Hearts owe money to Ukio and that is the money that is due in February, which can be almost cleared with the deeds to Tynie. Ukio have been making money through transfer sales and throught the servicing costs for the debt. When you look at this whole thing you need to see what Vlad has put in, he has only really put in the 17 mill that is owed in Feb. UBIG have put money in, which has borrowed andsecured from various banks including Ukio, but these debts are also secured because of the other companies assets that UBIG own. Vlad can put UBIG and Hearts to the wall tomorrow. Selling Tynie will pay for the 17 mil loan, Ukio will cover UBIG debts by taking all the rest of the assetts UBIG have, so all debts to Ukio are paid meaning Vlad has made a profit all this time through Hearts paying the servicing costs of their debt.

I agree with Nailrod here. to take the 2008 accounts as an illustration, UBIG pumped £12m into HOMFC by way of the share issue/debt write off, but the amount due to them and UKIO only decreased by £6m. They charged £2m interest, but the remaining £4m went out of the group of companies completely. Thus, in a year when they brought in a windfall of £10m from player sales, HOMFC contrived to lose UBIG £4m - it has been much higher in previous years. All this supposes that none of the £4m that was lost found its way back to Vlad - that could be construed as money-laundering.

As far as administration goes, besides the source of the rumour being crap, I don't think the timing would be right if Vlad had any control over it. The January transfer window is coming up and nobody would pay any serious money for players from a club in administration - the players would likely be released from their contracts at the end of January in any case, so interested clubs would just wait until then to pick them up for nothing.

[Saorsa]

If Carlsberg made Christmas's.........:thumbsup::bye::jamboak::green grin


:faf: :partyhibb :partyhibb :faf:


:flag:


:bye:

[Nailrod]

If building up massive levels of debt with interest payable to a bank that you owe over 5 years isn't milking it then i don't know what is...

Then let me explain:

Joe Hertz is a bull****ter who runs a dogfighting business in Edinburgh. Even though he's only won two dogfights in the last fifty years, he loves to swank around the place pretending that he's some kind of 'big-time Johnny'. His only assets are a half-blind chewed-out Pit Bull called 'Mikey' and a fighting-pen called 'The Slum'. His dogfighting business earns 8 quid a year, but it costs 10 quid to run. Every year, Joe gets the other two quid off a credit card he has with UKIO Bank.

UKIO Bank are a bunch of sharks, and they charge him a quid in interest on his two quid debt. But Joe never has any money to pay off the credit card, apart from the occasional quid or two when Mikey somehow manages to sire some squab-faced pup that Joe sells, so the debt keeps growing and growing. After five years he owes UKIO about 20 quid on his credit card.

Now UKIO can pretend to themselves and to the world that they have been 'milking' Joe all these years with the interest that they're adding to his loan, and that they have an 'asset' in all the money he owes them, but the truth of the matter is that Joe can never pay the money back because he never earns any. The only thing he owns of any value is The Slum, which is worth about three quid. So the reality is that the 20 quid 'asset' that UKIO own in the shape of all the money that Joe owns them is actually worth the 3 quid they could realise on The Slum.

Eventually, of course, UKIO will have to face up to reality, acknowledge that Joe can't pay back the money he owes them, force him to sell The Slum for three quid, take that money, write off the rest of the loan, take away his credit card, and stop giving him money.

At that point he won't have any source of money to plug the two quid gap between what he earns and what he spends, and he won't have a fighting-pen any more. His business will go bust and he'll have to tie Mikey in a sack and chuck him in the canal.

And UKIO, far from having 'milked' him over the years, will have lost about seventeen quid on the deal.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Then let me explain:

Joe Hertz is a crap businessman and a bull****ter who wants to make out he's big time. He has a business that earns 8 quid a year, but it costs 10 quid to run. Every year, Joe gets the other two quid off a credit card he has with UKIO Bank.

UKIO Bank are a bunch of sharks, and they charge him a quid in interest on his two quid debt. But Joe never has any money to pay off the credit card, apart from the occasional quid or two when he has a win on a dogfight, so the debt keeps growing and growing. After five years he owes UKIO about 20 quid on his credit card.

Now UKIO can pretend to themselves and to the world that they have been 'milking' Joe all these years with the interest that they're adding to his loan, and that they have an 'asset' in all the money he owes them, but the truth of the matter is that Joe can never pay the money back because he never earns any. The only thing he owns of any value is a Pit Bull that's worth about three quid. So the reality is that the 20 quid 'asset' that UKIO own in the shape of all the money that Joe owns them is actually worth the 3 quid they could realise on his Pit Bull.

Eventually, of course, UKIO will have to face up to reality, acknowledge that Joe can't pay back the money he owes them, force him to sell his Pit Bull for three quid, take that money, write off the rest of the loan, take away his credit card, and stop giving him money.

At that point he won't have any source of money to plug the two quid gap between what he earns and what he spends, so his business will go bust.

:hilarious :top marks

[Rory89]

People have been talking like it's going to be within a week for the last 3 years. It will probably happen one day but it's getting a bit boring.

Lets just concentrate on being Edinburgh's finest, we shouldn't be giving them the attention they're getting considering we're doing well and they are absolute gash.

[Nailrod]

As far as administration goes, besides the source of the rumour being crap, I don't think the timing would be right if Vlad had any control over it.
You're right CG. There's no way Vlad would let Hertz go under so close to the transfer window.

If the End is Nigh, it's more likely to go something like this:

Seasos go on sale around the start of January. Players go on sale closer to the end of January. UBIG take whatever cash is raised and put the club into administration.

While obviously unethical on the part of a PLC, Vlad isn't actually a Director so he is in the clear on both the civil and criminal side.

Then UKIO have to raise as much as they can from the rest of Hertz assets (ie Tiny) and try to hold on to as much of it as they can - not too difficult given that in such cases Banks generally have a preferential place in the pecking order after government agencies like Tax and VAT, and ahead of all other creditors.

[HFC 0-7]

I agree with Nailrod here. to take the 2008 accounts as an illustration, UBIG pumped £12m into HOMFC by way of the share issue/debt write off, but the amount due to them and UKIO only decreased by £6m. They charged £2m interest, but the remaining £4m went out of the group of companies completely. Thus, in a year when they brought in a windfall of £10m from player sales, HOMFC contrived to lose UBIG £4m - it has been much higher in previous years. All this supposes that none of the £4m that was lost found its way back to Vlad - that could be construed as money-laundering.

As far as administration goes, besides the source of the rumour being crap, I don't think the timing would be right if Vlad had any control over it. The January transfer window is coming up and nobody would pay any serious money for players from a club in administration - the players would likely be released from their contracts at the end of January in any case, so interested clubs would just wait until then to pick them up for nothing.

I get what you are saying but UBIG are set up to take the fall so Vlads bank doesnt take a hit. UBIG owe money to other banks, so, once vlad calls in Februarys payment, Ukio will receive the deeds to tynie, then he can put Hearts to the wall. UBIG will in turn fold but have no assetts and they wont have to pay the moeny back to the banks they owe it to. Vlad is also careful in his share dealings, putting shares into his mothers name so that when UBIG goes bust they cant tell them to sell many shares for the money back he owes to other banks.

I agree that the rumour is crap, however, I still think this was Romanovs plan all along and he will not lose money out of it. He has had the servicings costs of hearts debt going into his bank all this time (A tidy little profit), Deeds to tiny will be following shortly, nice 15 Mill profit, then hearts go to the wall and he walks away.

[Peevemor]

I think people are forgetting that UBIG and not the bank is Vlad's main company. Ukio, the bank, is nothing in comparison.

[Cropley10]

I get what you are saying but UBIG are set up to take the fall so Vlads bank doesnt take a hit. UBIG owe money to other banks, so, once vlad calls in Februarys payment, Ukio will receive the deeds to tynie, then he can put Hearts to the wall. UBIG will in turn fold but have no assetts and they wont have to pay the moeny back to the banks they owe it to. Vlad is also careful in his share dealings, putting shares into his mothers name so that when UBIG goes bust they cant tell them to sell many shares for the money back he owes to other banks.

I agree that the rumour is crap, however, I still think this was Romanovs plan all along and he will not lose money out of it. He has had the servicings costs of hearts debt going into his bank all this time (A tidy little profit), Deeds to tiny will be following shortly, nice 15 Mill profit, then hearts go to the wall and he walks away.

Right, I'm confused.

Where does the £17m come from to repay the loan due in Feb 2010.

If Vlad has the deeds to Tiny - he needs to liquidate this asset in order to make a profit, surely? Meaning he needs to find someone with £15m to give him, in return for the land.

Now I'd be very surprised if he gives up this asset for £15m and even if he did - it doesn't sound like an enormous sum of money for some group of Yams to find.

[Nailrod]

:hilarious :top marks
You might enjoy the edited version, DH :wink:

[WarringtonHibee]

http://www.facebook.com/pages/HeartofMidlothianFC/234342874761?v=wall#/video/video.php?v=100938499934144&ref=mf

:faf::faf::faf:

[Nailrod]

Right, I'm confused.

Where does the £17m come from to repay the loan due in Feb 2010.
It doesn't 'come from' anywhere, Cropley. Hearts don't have the money. The only options are:
1. UKIO agree to extend the term of the loan (most likely)
2. They do another 'debt for equity ' swap. Essentially this means swapping debt that's never going to be paid pack in exchange for shares in a company that aren't worth anything (less likely)
3. They cut their losses, wind up Hearts, and make what they can on the remaining assets - taking a huge hit in the process (least likely, but who knows?)

[Nailrod]

I get what you are saying but UBIG are set up to take the fall so Vlads bank doesnt take a hit. <snip> I still think this was Romanovs plan all along and he will not lose money out of it. He has had the servicings costs of hearts debt going into his bank all this time (A tidy little profit), Deeds to tiny will be following shortly, nice 15 Mill profit, then hearts go to the wall and he walks away.
13681, since you appear unshakable in your belief that Vlad is making money by lending money to a business that doesn't have any money, I have a proposal for you:

You are welcome to lend me as much money as you want, and charge me whatever interest you want. I may on occasion pay back very small amounts of the money you have lent me, but since I don't have any money, as a general principle you will never see your money again.

You are welcome to 'milk' me in this way for as long as you please. When do you want to start?

[Sergey]

An announcement from Ukio made earlier today after trading was closed.

A 50,000,000 Lithuanian Lita loan has been agreed (about £13m in real money).

Ukio Skint (http://www.nasdaqomxbaltic.com/market/?pg=details&instrument=LT0000102352&list=2&tab=news&news_id=238463)

[hibbie02]

An announcement from Ukio made earlier today after trading was closed.

A 50,000,000 Lithuanian Lita loan has been agreed (about £13m in real money).

Ukio Skint (http://www.nasdaqomxbaltic.com/market/?pg=details&instrument=LT0000102352&list=2&tab=news&news_id=238463)

So what are your perceptions on this development then? Why do they need the money? Is it BAU type stuff? Is it a significant amount of money to a "major European Bank"? Are they planning to invest more with the Maroon Mongs? C'mon G spill the beans son!!! :greengrin

[Sergey]

So what are your perceptions on this development then? Why do they need the money? Is it BAU type stuff? Is it a significant amount of money to a "major European Bank"? Are they planning to invest more with the Maroon Mongs? C'mon G spill the beans son!!! :greengrin

Surprise, surprise. The Yams have just released this statement:


World Exclusive: In safe hands

In an exclusive interview, director Sergejus Fedotovas reveals he is confident that Hearts is well positioned to manage the economic storm affecting Scottish football.

Sergejus spoke exclusively to Hearts News at Tynecastle and emphasised that Hearts is cushioned from the external financial pressures faced by other clubs.

The debt carried by many football clubs is headline news at present, how exposed is Hearts to its existing debt?

The key fact, that sets Hearts apart from many other clubs, is that our debt is in the form of funding from our own parent company Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe (UBIG). We are not exposed to the external debt levels of other highly geared businesses.

Our positive funding arrangement means that it is our own Group that finances Hearts and not external financial institutions. We therefore do not consider this as "real" debt - in simple terms, we owe the money to ourselves as Hearts is owned by UBIG. This positive funding arrangement provides security of funding for the club and, in turn, this allows us to both weather the current challenging economic conditions but, most importantly, develop the business for the future.

The club does not pay the interest on the debt, just accumulates it - it shows that the owners are not profiting from the club.

While UBIG is a well resourced and financed multi-national organisation our positive funding arrangement does not mean that we are ambivalent in our management of Hearts. The onus is to ensure Hearts is run efficiently and is maximising its revenue generating opportunities.

UBIG offered a 'funding-for-equity' deal previously to reduce the club's debt by £12m in July 2007, do you think this would be an option again in the future?

Yes. At present we are considering and assessing plans for a further funding-for-equity deal which is realistic.

Is UBIG still fully committed to Hearts?

It is 'fact' that UBIG is 100% behind the club and its future development plans. UBIG has been an essential backer and partner of Hearts since the outright purchase of the club in February 2005. In the five years we have been at the club and we have achieved some success and at some times were deprived of success, but at all times we remain committed to the club. If you look at the board of the club, closest representatives of the owner are there and it shows the level of importance and commitment.

Since we came in the financial situation has been solid. All payments are ok at the club. The players are paid for five years since we have bought the club and the bonuses are paid when the team deserves a bonus.

UBIG provides funding for the club along with a range of other resources such as business expertise, connections to other football organisations and business contacts. This is evidenced in our ongoing planning for the Tynecastle stadium redevelopment, our bank development and other projects and business opportunities in Edinburgh.

Hearts enjoys an excellent relationship with UBIG and as long as Hearts maintains a focus on operational efficiencies and progressing the club in business development terms then we can look forward to many more years of support from the organisation.

And what about Ukio Bankas, the club's bankers, how do you view that relationship in light of the pressures being faced by financial institutions?

Ukio Bankas maintains ambitious development plans and the bank remains profitable unlike most others in UK and elsewhere in Europe. Ukio Bankas is a very supportive partner of the club. For example, our banking relationship ensures that Hearts receives first class quality and timely service.

Does the economic climate prohibit Hearts from securing further investment funding for projects such as the stadium redevelopment?

We are working to deliver an investment solution that will allow us to generate a profit for the club from an enhanced stadium which provides the best spectator experience.

We continue to envisage a redeveloped stadium at Tynecastle which provides great benefits to the club and its supporters. External funding is not a necessary element of our future strategy but we remain open minded about partnership opportunities that will help develop the club. We are currently assessing certain investment options and we believe that we are making good progress in this area.

What can we expect from the forthcoming Annual Results?

We will be issuing our annual results in the early part of next year and they are in line with expectations. We expect to demonstrate significant savings in key operational areas.

Seems like apt timing to me.

[Nailrod]

Surprise, surprise. The Yams have just released this statement: <snip>
The club does not pay the interest on the debt, just accumulates it - it shows that the owners are not profiting from the club.
<snip) Seems like apt timing to me.
But the accumulating debt and the unpaid interest will show in UBIG's own accounts as an 'asset'. I wonder if there is a note to the accounts indicating that there is no prospect of this money ever being paid back?

My guess is no.

[Cropley10]

Surprise, surprise. The Yams have just released this statement:



Seems like apt timing to me.

Now I really am confused. So they do owe the money to themselves, so it's not real debt.

Which surely is a bit like my son spending on my credit card. He's spending money he doesn't have and doesn't have any cash to pay me back or pay the interest. So we 'accumulate the debt'...

So one fine day unless I can earn enough to pay it all off it's going to get painful?

[Nailrod]

Now I really am confused. So they do owe the money to themselves, so it's not real debt.

Which surely is a bit like my son spending on my credit card. He's spending money he doesn't have and doesn't have any cash to pay me back or pay the interest. So we 'accumulate the debt'...

So one fine day unless I can earn enough to pay it all off it's going to get painful?
Yes. Absolutely spot on. That is exactly what is happening.

Which is why the question of how it appears in UBIG's accounts is relevant. Because if the money owed appears in UBIG's accounts as an asset, without any annotation, that represents a formal declaration on the part of UBIG's Directors that they have a genuine expectation that the money will be repaid at some point in the foreseeable future.

Which it won't.

I wonder if Lithuania's financial regulators are as pusillanimous as the ones in the UK.