Some Sobering Things We Probably Know About This Season.

[Dashing Bob S]

* We are not going to keep up with the OF. Draws at places like Paisley and Kilmarnock mean that we will fall further behind them.

* But it's not necessarily a bad thing. I think Johnny Hun will fill his underpants with excrement when he's hauled off the beach in June to play half-a-dozen CL qualifiers against shaven-headed East European soldiers.

* It looks like us versus Potter for third, unless the SFA do us a favour and appoint him to the poisoned chalice that is the national team job.

* The Yams, even with a firesale in January, will probably escape relegation.

* However, I can see them being Donald Ducked by their off-field crisis. I really think Vlad will jump/be pushed in 2010.

[Don Giovanni]

Yep. As much as we would like to finish in the top 2 & see the Yams suffer relegation I think your predictions are fair, Bob. Most of us would have been happy enough with your assessments before a ball was kicked this season.
The Scottish Cup would be nice though (& cant think of a better man to lift it than John Hughes).

GGTTH

[PeeJay]

Lot of truth and experience in there I know Dashing Bob S :agree: – but I honestly think winning things is about believing that things can be won, in having the confidence to do so, and surely fans should be part of that?? What you are advocating by your "We are not going to keep up with the OF" is what will utimately break us down. If you ask me that’s the Scottish sickness: 'Oh, we’ve no chance really, we’ll just turn up and hope for the best!"
I know that's the way it usually is or has been but, if we’re ever to achieve anything: we have to believe from the fan base upwards; that’s part of the parcel in actually getting to the stage where things can be won, surely?
No need to give up, no need to lower our sights, no need at all, not yet, after all, if not now when? :flag:

[Hibby 2005]

In a couple of weeks Rangers could conceivably lie in 4th spot. They are most certainly there for the taking and an injury to Boyd would be interesting :greengrin

Celtic, IMHO, will probably pull away from the rest.

[YehButNoBut]

In a couple of weeks Rangers could conceivably lie in 4th spot. They are most certainly there for the taking and an injury to Boyd would be interesting :greengrin

Celtic, IMHO, will probably pull away from the rest.

Or if he was sold in January. :wink:

[Cabbage East]

How depressing.

[Hibbie0762]

I honestly think winning things is about believing that things can be won, in having the confidence to do soI sort of agree with this too - unless a club has ambitions, it will obviously not achieve those ambitions.

But those ambitions both have to be realistic and to take a longer-term view. Perhaps what keeps Hibs fans different from the slavering Believers across the other side of town is that (a) we have more sense than to indulge ourselves in the early gloat - the time to boast about being Champions of Europe and having a team stuffed with World Cup stars, for example, is when that has actually happened, not while it is still just a figment of your flaky owner's imagination; and (b) we are also level headed enough to recognise that keeping one's club alive - especially in such hard economic times for Scottish football - maybe matters a wee bit more than, say, hocking the club's future for two Scottish Cups in 13 years and a chance to be humped serially in the qualifying rounds of Europe for a couple of seasons.

However (and sorry to go a bit off thread here), we do all need to be aware that over on FifteeenPointsBack, the team which is now on a whole different level to us is arguing that because they can allegedly turn out 16K fans every week and Hibs, DU and Aberdeen can't, they remain the Third Force in Scotland and the rest of us are all diddy teams.

It has always puzzled me why the Yams make such a big deal of their slightly larger (if artificially inflated by including all ST holders regardless of actual attendance and offering STs at knock down prices) fan base. It is certainly true that if points were awarded for big crowds, the Yams would regularly finish 3rd. But there are no leagues for crowd size, their modestly larger crowds aren't exactly doing much for their balance of payments, and most Hibbies I know just stifle a yawn at their boasts, which are just a variation on the old eat s***e - 10 billion flies can't be wrong argument - or like a guy with a really ugly wife boasting about the size of his willy.

[Jim44]

We certainly don't have to lower our sights, but for me, one thing is certain and that is that we will have to rely on help from other teams to take points from our rivals like D Utd. That is why, and I repeat, we should all have been rooting for the Jambos to win on Saturday. We're big boys now and surely our relative position in the league is vastly more important than a fleeting wave of pleasure at the lack of success of the Jambos. I'll also, albeit alone judging by comments on other threads, be desperate for a Rangers win in the forthcoming replay against D Utd.

[Hibby 2005]

Or if he was sold in January. :wink:

I'd like to think so, but doubt it'll happen. Boyd is pretty much the only player who is keeping Rangers in contention at the moment. Take away his goals and both Hibs and Utd. would be ahead of them.

[Hibbie0762]

We certainly don't have to lower our sights, but for me, one thing is certain and that is that we will have to rely on help from other teams to take points from our rivals like D Utd. That is why, and I repeat, we should all have been rooting for the Jambos to win on Saturday. We're big boys now and surely our relative position in the league is vastly more important than a fleeting wave of pleasure at the lack of success of the Jambos. I'll also, albeit alone judging by comments on other threads, be desperate for a Rangers win in the forthcoming replay against D Utd.It is always helpful when a bottom six team which presents no threat to your own team's ambitions takes points off a serious challenger. So a draw at the PBS on Saturday was a pretty good outcome - it damaged DU and didn't help the Yams much.

A similar result at Ibrox wouldn't be the worst outcome either.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think the weekend's results were significant. While both the OF won, none of the chasing pack were able to get a victory. Trips to bottom six clubs like Kilmarnock and Hearts should ALWAYS result in three points if you are chasing a title.

I feel that if we were chasing promotion out of the first division, we would be far from happy with our league position. To win titles you just can't accept dropped points. That's why Celtic and Rangers will start to grind out victories in the next few weeks, they are not allowed to contemplate a second place finish.

[jacomo]

Hmm.

I agree that Hearts won't go down... they've surely got enough in the squad to achieve that.

As for us, it would always need the stars to align for us to finish above 3rd. If Killie, for example, continue to improve, they could take points off the OF, and help us out.

If not, then we simply won't have the consistency to stay with them.

[Hibbie0762]

I think the weekend's results were significant. While both the OF won, none of the chasing pack were able to get a victory. Trips to bottom six clubs like Kilmarnock and Hearts should ALWAYS result in three points if you are chasing a title.

I feel that if we were chasing promotion out of the first division, we would be far from happy with our league position. To win titles you just can't accept dropped points. That's why Celtic and Rangers will start to grind out victories in the next few weeks, they are not allowed to contemplate a second place finish.I don't disagree. Unfortunately, both of the Ugly Sisters look to be finding a bit of form after pretty poor starts, and their greater resources as we approach the dirty end of the season will as usual help them to grind out results while other teams get mired in the mud.

Given all of their natural and unnatural advantages, it has always been fiendishly hard to split the OF, far less to finish above both of them, so (and without wanting to sound in any way defeatist) a 3rd place finish does begin to look like a more realistic objective for Hibs this season. Assuming that we can maintain a decent standard of form from here on in (and I have to say that Hibs and consistency are not terms seen in the same sentence too often), and that we can see off DU - who look like the only serious threat and are also prone to off days - that might not be too shabby an achievement after the mess which was last season.

[aberhibsfc]

I'd like to think so, but doubt it'll happen. Boyd is pretty much the only player who is keeping Rangers in contention at the moment. Take away his goals and both Hibs and Utd. would be ahead of them.

I hope someone relieves Boyd from Rangers in the window. Like to see how they would hold onto 2nd after that.

Mon the Hibees.

[jacomo]

I hope someone relieves Boyd from Rangers in the window. Like to see how they would hold onto 2nd after that.

Mon the Hibees.

Don't think it will happen, unfortunately. Boyd will get a fatter pay-packet if another club signs him without having to pay a fee to Rangers.

I imagine he'll be signing a pre-contract and then moving on in the summer.

[Baw187]

Remember we're still a work in progress. We're learning to win consistantly at home and are hard to beat at away.

As the season progresses, I'm confident we'll improve our away form and will start to pick up more wins on the road. Putting aside performances, only the loss of 2 silly goals cost us wins in Paisly and and Killie. Cut them out and we win more games.

As someone said on another thread, an average of 2 points per game, if continued until the split will see us with 66 points which should be good enough for 3rd and, keeps pressure on the OF to perform, which on evidence so far, may not happen as it has in previous years.

[TheBall'sRound]

If we can avert crisis and vast player exits, this could be just the "platform season" that we need to try and become the bridge between the ugly sisters and the rest.

There is a basis there to develop a side that will go to places like Killie and Paisley and get results as I think we finally have the blend of experience and youth that we were crying out for under Mowbray and Collins.

The defence has been solid, the midfield has been creative and hard-working and I can't remember the last time we had a +12 goal difference at this stage in the season so the forwards are doing something right!

The old cliché of turning Easter Road into a fortress is slowly but surely happening and with the half season tickets coming into force at the next home game and big matches over Christmas and New Year I can see the crowds swelling in the future as a result.

All in all, as far as "development" seasons go, this has been a brilliant start and dare I say it's the most progress we've made towards becoming the club we all desire?

And as for Jonny Jumbo, I would be bricking it next season with a very strong Dundee side coming up. It will be a straight fist fight :wink: between them and Accies for relegation next year - and the way the LAST fist fight went I can only see one winner!

[JackRegan]

One weekend of results not going your way, does not mean its all over.

The huns have a pretty tough run of games between now and January - they have to go to yourselves, United and to Celtic Park. If they take less than 6 points for the 9 available, they will be back to 3rd or 4th. This is before January where they may have to sell 1 or 2 of their first team squad, plus rumour has it players are not getting played because they will trigger appearance payments.

Celtic have a couple of tricky fixtures (Hearts away next weekend) and of course our home fixture versus der hun. Having said that, we have some "stick on" games we should win - Killie away (30/12), Accies at home (26/12) and Falkirk at home (16/1). From my persepective I reckon if Celtic can beat the Jambos next week and beat the huns, we will be in great position for your midweek visit toCP at the end of January (which will end in 1-1 draw). If we're top of teh table at the endo f January, I reckon we'll win the league.

Much will depend though on how the huns fare in the three games I mention, as well as who they punt in January.

[Baw187]

One weekend of results not going your way, does not mean its all over.

The huns have a pretty tough run of games between now and January - they have to go to yourselves, United and to Celtic Park. If they take less than 6 points for the 9 available, they will be back to 3rd or 4th. This is before January where they may have to sell 1 or 2 of their first team squad, plus rumour has it players are not getting played because they will trigger appearance payments.

Celtic have a couple of tricky fixtures (Hearts away next weekend) and of course our home fixture versus der hun. Having said that, we have some "stick on" games we should win - Killie away (30/12), Accies at home (26/12) and Falkirk at home (16/1). From my persepective I reckon if Celtic can beat the Jambos next week and beat the huns, we will be in great position for your midweek visit toCP at the end of January (which will end in 1-1 draw). If we're top of teh table at the endo f January, I reckon we'll win the league.

Much will depend though on how the huns fare in the three games I mention, as well as who they punt in January.


Exactly - there's hard games for the OF as well. We just need to concentrate on picking up points at the rate we are, and trying to improve slightly on that if we can by winning a few away games, and let the OF play out their own battles. If we do that, I'll be happy whether that's good enough for 2nd or not. No need to put unecessary pressure on the team trying to keep up with the OF and I'm sure Yogi will just have us concentrating on our own game.

[Steve20]

One weekend of results not going your way, does not mean its all over.

The huns have a pretty tough run of games between now and January - they have to go to yourselves, United and to Celtic Park. If they take less than 6 points for the 9 available, they will be back to 3rd or 4th. .



They have a tough run yes. However, we have quite a tough run ourselves. Aberdeen away this Saturday, Home games against Rangers and Hearts, with a midweek trip to St Johnstone in the middle of those two games.

I think your lot will probably move away from the pack a bit now. Hibs and Dundee Utd simply don't win enough away games to stay up the top for the long haul.

[JackRegan]

They have a tough run yes. However, we have quite a tough run ourselves. Aberdeen away this Saturday, Home games against Rangers and Hearts, with a midweek trip to St Johnstone in the middle of those two games.

I think your lot will probably move away from the pack a bit now. Hibs and Dundee Utd simply don't win enough away games to stay up the top for the long haul.

Aberdeen losing to the Accies :greengrin was probably a bad thing for Hibs as tehy will be fired up more than ever - although will they be able to handle the pressure?? who knows, but its a game that Hibs can win, in fact all the games you mention are winable. On their game Ir eckon Hibs can win ANY fixture - and I include Celtic Park in that as well, despite it being a venue that, if we're honest, has been pretty fallow for Hibs over the years.

Its a good season this year and that's 4 games now we've put in a good performance.

[Woody1985]

Don't think it will happen, unfortunately. Boyd will get a fatter pay-packet if another club signs him without having to pay a fee to Rangers.

I imagine he'll be signing a pre-contract and then moving on in the summer.

I think the fact that he doesn't want to leave will have be a major factor in this aswell. I think he'll be here all season.

He'll be looking to become the top SPL goal scorer and hope for title/cup before he goes as well.

[JackRegan]

I think the fact that he doesn't want to leave will have be a major factor in this aswell. I think he'll be here all season.

He'll be looking to become the top SPL goal scorer and hope for title/cup before he goes as well.

Boyd will play for Rangers for peanuts. He's living the hun dream and is having a new house built in Mauchline and has his pick on burds in places like Tarbolton, Auchinleck and Cumnock.

[Cabbage East]

Boyd will play for Rangers for peanuts. He's living the hun dream and is having a new house built in Mauchline and has his pick on burds in places like Tarbolton, Auchinleck and Cumnock.

Lucky him :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

Boyd will play for Rangers for peanuts. He's living the hun dream and is having a new house built in Mauchline and has his pick on burds in places like Tarbolton, Auchinleck and Cumnock.

The most succinct summing up of that small town big shot I have read. :top marks

[Keith_M]

I broadly agree with the points of the OP, it IS unlikely that we'll split the OF this season. However, Hibs should at least have that as a target.

If you don't set your sights high, then you achieve nothing. It's OK being realistic but there's no point having a defeatist view.

Don't get me wrong, I think that Yogi is handling the expectation levels of the support and the media really well with his comments but I don't expect for a minute that they have already resigned themselves to having no chance of anythng higher than 3rd.

[flood]

Just to get the stats right.....Rangers drew at Rugby park this season.:wink:

[allmodcons]

The next 3 games will tell you whether or not we are in with a chance of splitting the OF. They are huge for us!!

If we can take 7 points (must beat Rangers) from 9, we could well be above above Rangers before they meet Celtic and we meet on Hearts
on 3/1/10.

A big ask I know, but Aberdeen are struggling and Saints home form is very poor.

[Phil D. Rolls]

The next 3 games will tell you whether or not we are in with a chance of splitting the OF. They are huge for us!!

If we can take 7 points (must beat Rangers) from 9, we could well be above above Rangers before they meet Celtic and we meet on Hearts
on 3/1/10.

A big ask I know, but Aberdeen are struggling and Saints home form is very poor.

I feel that every game is huge if you want to challenge.

[Hibby Bairn]

Yogi and Rice could do worse than organise a pizza or two with Jim McLean and Alex Ferguson in the next week or so. Belief was central to their cause. Alex MacDonald used the same thing in 1985/86....but ultimately failed.

This Hibs team should have similar aspirations to those sides in the 80's.

[basehibby]

We certainly don't have to lower our sights, but for me, one thing is certain and that is that we will have to rely on help from other teams to take points from our rivals like D Utd. That is why, and I repeat, we should all have been rooting for the Jambos to win on Saturday. We're big boys now and surely our relative position in the league is vastly more important than a fleeting wave of pleasure at the lack of success of the Jambos. I'll also, albeit alone judging by comments on other threads, be desperate for a Rangers win in the forthcoming replay against D Utd.

:bitchy: What concievable difference will it make to the Yams/Huns and their opponents who the Hibs support wants to come out on top :confused:

Besides, a draw would probably be the best result to hope for - certainly for the Arabs vs Huns match anyway. It may be entirely unlikely that Hibs (or Utd) will split the OF but there IS a chance - even if it's a small one - so why on earth should we be rooting for our nearest rivals - especially if one of them is that well known institution known individually and collectively as filthy hun bassas :grr::grr::grr:

[Jim44]

:bitchy: What concievable difference will it make to the Yams/Huns and their opponents who the Hibs support wants to come out on top :confused:

Besides, a draw would probably be the best result to hope for - certainly for the Arabs vs Huns match anyway. It may be entirely unlikely that Hibs (or Utd) will split the OF but there IS a chance - even if it's a small one - so why on earth should we be rooting for our nearest rivals - especially if one of them is that well known institution known individually and collectively as filthy hun bassas :grr::grr::grr:

:confused::confused:I'm more confused than you as I've not got a clue what you're on about with your first point. As far as the second point goes, we are not going to split the Old Firm and the fewer points D Utd. pick up, the better, as far as I am concerned. If D Utd. had beaten the Jambos and go on to beat the Huns in the replay, and we end up being pipped by D Utd at the end of the season , the folk who wanted to see the Jambos and Huns defeated because of who they are, would probably change their tune and regret their previous desires.

[HIBERNIAN 1875]

Hibs lying 3rd and Hearts scrapping away in the bottom six will do me. :agree:

[Hibee_Rab]

I think the weekend's results were significant. While both the OF won, none of the chasing pack were able to get a victory. Trips to bottom six clubs like Kilmarnock and Hearts should ALWAYS result in three points if you are chasing a title.

I feel that if we were chasing promotion out of the first division, we would be far from happy with our league position. To win titles you just can't accept dropped points. That's why Celtic and Rangers will start to grind out victories in the next few weeks, they are not allowed to contemplate a second place finish.

Celtic and rangers have failed to win at both those clubs grounds this season

[Spike Mandela]

Hmm.

I agree that Hearts won't go down... they've surely got enough in the squad to achieve that.
As for us, it would always need the stars to align for us to finish above 3rd. If Killie, for example, continue to improve, they could take points off the OF, and help us out.

If not, then we simply won't have the consistency to stay with them.

A 10 point deduction for administration wouldn't have them looking too clever:devil: