Could second place change the face of Scottish football?

[matty_f]

I was talking to a guy at work today (Raith fan) who reckoned it would be great if Hibs managed to finish second this season.

I think that because of the nick of Rangers, and the financial problems they are facing, if they fail to get second place and a bite at the Champions League money, then they're scunnered.

If we were to get second and even get a decent tie in the CL qualifiers, it puts us in a great position financially, which in turn puts us in a great position to strengthen to help secure a top 2 finish for the following season.

It's a long shot, but if we hit it two years on the bounce at the expense of the Huns, the whole face of Scottish football could change. Same goes if Dundee Utd got second this season, btw -though they probably aren't in as good a place to capitalise on the extra income.

I really hope we strengthen in January and try and push on for second place (I think Celtc will strengthen, and probably finish the season out of sight of the rest of the SPL). I've never been a big advocate of the speculate to accumulate chain of thought, however there's a decent chance we'll get a sizeable wedge for Bamba, so there could be value in really going for it in January.

[Irish_Steve]

Just say No, kids

[vahibbie]

I was talking to a guy at work today (Raith fan) who reckoned it would be great if Hibs managed to finish second this season.

I think that because of the nick of Rangers, and the financial problems they are facing, if they fail to get second place and a bite at the Champions League money, then they're scunnered.

If we were to get second and even get a decent tie in the CL qualifiers, it puts us in a great position financially, which in turn puts us in a great position to strengthen to help secure a top 2 finish for the following season.

It's a long shot, but if we hit it two years on the bounce at the expense of the Huns, the whole face of Scottish football could change. Same goes if Dundee Utd got second this season, btw -though they probably aren't in as good a place to capitalise on the extra income.

I really hope we strengthen in January and try and push on for second place (I think Celtc will strengthen, and probably finish the season out of sight of the rest of the SPL). I've never been a big advocate of the speculate to accumulate chain of thought, however there's a decent chance we'll get a sizeable wedge for Bamba, so there could be value in really going for it in January.
Totally agree Matty:agree: Was just talking to my mate on the phone about the very same thing.
CL money would make a huge difference to a team like Hibs and if we could do it 2 years in a row at the expense of the HUNS it could well change Scottish fitba for a good wee while.
Mind you, the "Lodge" would likely bail them out before it came to that:devil:

[aazza91]

Can see where you are coming from but I personally think it'll be a lot more than 2 years to change it that much.
Rangers will always have a greater income than Hibs, purely because of gate receipts and sponsership, so they will always be able to pay higher wages and attract better players than us. It all depends on how quickly they replace the players they are forced to sell and If/when Walter Smith leaves they get a good replacement.

[Leithenhibby]

I was talking to a guy at work today (Raith fan) who reckoned it would be great if Hibs managed to finish second this season.

I think that because of the nick of Rangers, and the financial problems they are facing, if they fail to get second place and a bite at the Champions League money, then they're scunnered.

If we were to get second and even get a decent tie in the CL qualifiers, it puts us in a great position financially, which in turn puts us in a great position to strengthen to help secure a top 2 finish for the following season.

It's a long shot, but if we hit it two years on the bounce at the expense of the Huns, the whole face of Scottish football could change. Same goes if Dundee Utd got second this season, btw -though they probably aren't in as good a place to capitalise on the extra income.

I really hope we strengthen in January and try and push on for second place (I think Celtc will strengthen, and probably finish the season out of sight of the rest of the SPL). I've never been a big advocate of the speculate to accumulate chain of thought, however there's a decent chance we'll get a sizeable wedge for Bamba, so there could be value in really going for it in January.


To have any chance for this to happen, it's imperative that we strengthen our squad come January, if only to cement third place.

Dun Utd don't have the money to get anyone in, so I feel it is up to us to start pushing the Ugly Sisters like never before. :pray:

[Westie1875]

Pfffft, second :bitchy:, I want first. :greengrin:wink::devil:

[Mike777]

It will also be intresting to see who leaves at either of the OF, Boyd? Mcgeady,Brown?
This is the best chance for any team to compete for 2nd place and a crack at the big teams not to mention some of the cash to come with it.
How much will be available to Yogi in the next transfer window?

[Spike Mandela]

Calm it doon a bit boys. You're starting to sound like beLIEvers:wink:

When Hearts split the OF they won their first 12 games and still only managed to scrape in to second.

Finishing third or fourth would be an acheivement.

[matty_f]

Can see where you are coming from but I personally think it'll be a lot more than 2 years to change it that much.
Rangers will always have a greater income than Hibs, purely because of gate receipts and sponsership, so they will always be able to pay higher wages and attract better players than us. It all depends on how quickly they replace the players they are forced to sell and If/when Walter Smith leaves they get a good replacement.

Think you're right, actually. The thing is whether or not a team could sustain a second place finish over a few seasons. Bear in mind that the Huns advertising revenue would drop significantly with no CL exposure, the same as the other team's would increase, but even still, I think you're right about two seasons not being enough.

Can I point out that I'm not saying we'll get second this season, but just hypothesising on what could potentially happen if a team other than Rangers got it.

[ANDY McGEECHAN]

Calm it doon a bit boys. You're starting to sound like beLIEvers:wink:

When Hearts split the OF they won their first 12 games and still only managed to scrape in to second.

Finishing third or fourth would be an acheivement.


Spot on

[Russian Hibs Fan]

Dreaming.... Dreaming... :blah: If only it will be a part of th truth.

[matty_f]

Calm it doon a bit boys. You're starting to sound like beLIEvers:wink:

When Hearts split the OF they won their first 12 games and still only managed to scrape in to second.

Finishing third or fourth would be an acheivement.


Spot on

Disagree guys - nobody's saying that we'll get second - it's a hypothetical thread about what could happen if Hibs (or say, Dundee Utd as I said in the opening post) got second.

The only difference between us and Utd getting it is we're in a better position to capitalise on the extra revenue.

This isn't a prediction thread, I'm merely suggesting that due to the financial plight of Rangers, that second place has the potential to be hugely significant for a few years to come if it's taken advantage of properly.

[Leithenhibby]

It will also be intresting to see who leaves at either of the OF, Boyd? Mcgeady,Brown?
This is the best chance for any team to compete for 2nd place and a crack at the big teams not to mention some of the cash to come with it.
How much will be available to Yogi in the next transfer window?



Should stick in a cheeky wee offer before the west coast media start their wee games by trying to unsettle us...:greengrin

[Antifa Hibs]

The bubble has burst, you better believe it. Celtic and Rangers fans couldn't get tickets for love nor money 10 years ago, Sold Out signs up every game, these days though..? They are averaging 40000 a week, ticket sales down, jersey sales down. Celtic are more secure than the Gers but they are still ****ed. No-one will ever invest as there is next to no return.

I can see the SPL being like the Dutch league. Hopefully the OF crowds continue to drop and Hibs, Hertz, Aberdeen, Dundee Utd etc rise. Check Feynoord and Ajax of years back compared to now..?

[CorrieHibs]

Calm it doon a bit boys. You're starting to sound like beLIEvers:wink:

When Hearts split the OF they won their first 12 games and still only managed to scrape in to second.

Finishing third or fourth would be an acheivement.

Exactly mate a few folk getting carried away.We're beginning to sound like yams. We need to take every game as it comes. I'll be delighted to finish 3rd/4th. Rangers and celtic will finish 1st/2nd.

[truehibernian]

Got to be realistic here and say that we are a million miles away from the Europa League, let alone the Champions League. Hibs are playing okay, but not great. We deserve to be where we are, down to the work ethic of the players and team spirit that is in place, and having a good manager. The football could be a whole lot better if we are honest. And we have not seen how this team reacts to injuries to key players. We have been lucky that it's been only one player out at a time, but what will the team be like if say Bamba (who leaves for the ANC in January), Riordan and Miller were out injured at the same time for a period of games ? Say Stack doesn't recover fully from his back injury ? What if we actually sell a couple of players in January due to offers being too good to be true ? The next 4 games IMO are the ones which will reveal a lot about the side this season, given our lofty position. Wins away to bogey grounds like Todders and Rugby Park, and wins versus Rangers (surely we are due one) and the Yams would naturally give us all increased expectations (and rightfully so). But we are Hibernian, and we do like to do things the hard way. The OF have depth of squad (even if they are poor) and will fight out the top spots. Third and the chance of Europe (and a good cup run) will suit me fine this year (and is altogether more achievable), as it will be a marked improvement all round on the last 4 years. Poor as their finances are, Rangers can sadly service their debt levels, and still remain competitive in Scotland. It's our neighbours that cannot and will struggle to survive.

[Earl o'Montrose]

I was talking to a guy at work today (Raith fan) who reckoned it would be great if Hibs managed to finish second this season.

I think that because of the nick of Rangers, and the financial problems they are facing, if they fail to get second place and a bite at the Champions League money, then they're scunnered.

If we were to get second and even get a decent tie in the CL qualifiers, it puts us in a great position financially, which in turn puts us in a great position to strengthen to help secure a top 2 finish for the following season.

It's a long shot, but if we hit it two years on the bounce at the expense of the Huns, the whole face of Scottish football could change. Same goes if Dundee Utd got second this season, btw -though they probably aren't in as good a place to capitalise on the extra income.

I really hope we strengthen in January and try and push on for second place (I think Celtc will strengthen, and probably finish the season out of sight of the rest of the SPL). I've never been a big advocate of the speculate to accumulate chain of thought, however there's a decent chance we'll get a sizeable wedge for Bamba, so there could be value in really going for it in January.

And therein lies the problem, Matty. We're still talking and acting like a selling club, and until such times when we can keep a good squad together for 2 or 3 years we're never going to realistically challenge for a CL place.
And another thing, if we were still genuinely challenging for 2nd come the new year, the west coast media would panic, and try to undermine Hibs in any way possible (Daily ****** being the main culprit). There will be scurrilous rumours about dressing room unrest, transfer requests etc etc. I'll never forget - or forgive - the gutter media (Real Radio included) for the way in which they spent several weeks hysterically trying to sell off Thomson and Brown to one half or the other of Rantic. Pathetic I know,but no non old filth club will ever be allowed to hold on to a title challenging team. :grr:

[matty_f]

Exactly mate a few folk getting carried away.We're beginning to sound like yams. We need to take every game as it comes. I'll be delighted to finish 3rd/4th. Rangers and celtic will finish 1st/2nd.

Who's getting carried away?:confused:

[sambajustice]

To get Champions League money you have to get into the Champions LEague. From what i've been told, even finishing first this season doesnt guarantee the Champions League.

I reckon to finish 2nd we're going to need about 4 players all better than what we have. I dont think that will happen. A couple of Defenders and a couple of Midfielders...

[matty_f]

And therein lies the problem, Matty. We're still talking and acting like a selling club, and until such times when we can keep a good squad together for 2 or 3 years we're never going to realistically challenge for a CL place.
And another thing, if we were still genuinely challenging for 2nd come the new year, the west coast media would panic, and try to undermine Hibs inany way possible (Daily ****** being the main culprit). There will be scurrilous rumours about dressing room unrest, transfer requests etc etc. I'll never forget - or forgive - the gutter media (Real Radio included) for the way in which they spent several weeks hysterically trying to sell off Thomson and Brown to one half or the other of Rantic. Pathetic I know,but no non old filth club will ever be allowed to hold on to a title challenging team. :grr:

I take your point about sounding like a selling club, however every club trades to improve the squad - IMHO Bamba will go for good money - there's little we can do to prevent that. What's vital is that we use the money to strengthen the squad.

We showed with the departure of Jones (and the arrival at a very, very low price of Bamba) that you can lose a key player and still strengthen the team. In fact, having Fletcher and Jones leave in pre-season should have been devastating for us, however look how we're playing because we used the money to good effect.

As for the West coast media - I actually think they'd be delighted if Hibs or another side split the OF, especially if it was at the expense of Rangers. Sports-wise, nothing shifts papers in Scotland more than the OF in crisis. If Rangers were on their knees the papers would be loving it.

[matty_f]

To get Champions League money you have to get into the Champions LEague. From what i've been told, even finishing first this season doesnt guarantee the Champions League.

I reckon to finish 2nd we're going to need about 4 players all better than what we have. I dont think that will happen. A couple of Defenders and a couple of Midfielders...

The point isn't just about the CL money, though it's a big part of it - the key thing is starving Rangers of that revenue. That is what could potentially be key in shifting the balance of power from the OF duopoly that has prevailed for however many years.

[bingo70]

The bubble has burst, you better believe it. Celtic and Rangers fans couldn't get tickets for love nor money 10 years ago, Sold Out signs up every game, these days though..? They are averaging 40000 a week, ticket sales down, jersey sales down. Celtic are more secure than the Gers but they are still ****ed. No-one will ever invest as there is next to no return.

I can see the SPL being like the Dutch league. Hopefully the OF crowds continue to drop and Hibs, Hertz, Aberdeen, Dundee Utd etc rise. Check Feynoord and Ajax of years back compared to now..?

Not just holland, face of football has changed in Romania and think it was a smaller club that won the Russian league last season as well was it not?

Don't know enough about these countries but could it not be that throughout Europe clubs have been overspending trying to get into European competitions when in actual fact there's not that much money to be made in it unless your consistantly doing well, couple of bad seasons and they're in the ****.

[Arch Stanton]

Disagree guys - nobody's saying that we'll get second - it's a hypothetical thread about what could happen if Hibs (or say, Dundee Utd as I said in the opening post) got second.

The only difference between us and Utd getting it is we're in a better position to capitalise on the extra revenue.

This isn't a prediction thread, I'm merely suggesting that due to the financial plight of Rangers, that second place has the potential to be hugely significant for a few years to come if it's taken advantage of properly.

We'd be in a much better position to capitalise on extra revenue if the new East Stand was built next summer - that is possibly more of a priority for that reason.

[Part/Time Supporter]

2nd (or 1st if there is no automatic entry) means naff all if the team concerned doesn't make the Champions League proper. How much did Hearts make out of getting rumped by AEK and Sparta Prague?

[matty_f]

2nd (or 1st if there is no automatic entry) means naff all if the team concerned doesn't make the Champions League proper. How much did Hearts make out of getting rumped by AEK and Sparta Prague?

Fair point - you'd need a kind draw and a huge slice of luck to even get to the group stages, however you would parachute to the Europa League and get a crack at that - so even then it would bring in money that we could use that Rangers couldn't. Maybe not enough to be able to sustain a European challenge, but enough to put you down as favourites for second in the SPL.

Then it's a case of building on that season after season.

[Woody1985]

The face of Scottish football would have changed has Celtic not gifted the league to Rangers last season, giving them much needed revenue to keep their heads near the surface of the water.

If they never made the CL this season their debt would have been another 5-10 million on top of what it is now.

What you've said about funds to a club like us is everything that is wrong with the CL and I think that some of the so called smaller league could be ruined by the CL.

If one team in a fairly poor league qualify for the group stages it gives them the foundations to dominate that league for years to come and ultimately nullifies the competition.

[Woody1985]

The point isn't just about the CL money, though it's a big part of it - the key thing is starving Rangers of that revenue. That is what could potentially be key in shifting the balance of power from the OF duopoly that has prevailed for however many years.

By changing it to a monopoly.

That's my main concern. If Celtic or Rangers fall away (which neither of them will let happen) then the remaining team should be in a stronger position to capitalise as they'd theoretically win the league every season. Was it not Rosenberg who qualified for the CL for something like 11 seasons in a row by winning the league?

[matty_f]

By changing it to a monopoly.

That's my main concern. If Celtic or Rangers fall away (which neither of them will let happen) then the remaining team should be in a stronger position to capitalise as they'd theoretically win the league every season. Was it not Rosenberg who qualified for the CL for something like 11 seasons in a row by winning the league?

Celtc would more than likely be the biggest winners in it all.:agree:

[Part/Time Supporter]

By changing it to a monopoly.

That's my main concern. If Celtic or Rangers fall away (which neither of them will let happen) then the remaining team should be in a stronger position to capitalise as they'd theoretically win the league every season. Was it not Rosenberg who qualified for the CL for something like 11 seasons in a row by winning the league?

Their fans are getting bored as it is, history (ie 1970-74) suggests they would get incredibly bored by a one horse race.

Huns would turn up like clockwork to watch their mob thump Dukla Pumpherston, Edinburgh City and Dunbar United.

[The_Todd]

Anyone except Rangers finishing in the top two will have a massive impact on Der Hun. So financially vulnerable at the moment, and it's pretty well known that the OF fans desert in droves when titles and cups aren't guaranteed. Loyal? Welcome the chase? My erchie.

Hibs or United finishing second would be financial ruin for them.

[Hibs On Tour]

Think a big part of it wouldn't just be the financial side [massive though that would undoubtedly be] but that if they didn't qualify for the CL or EL that the bulk of their better players would look to be off sharpish! They would be left with only their Scottish players as the rest wouldn't be hanging around with purely the 'glory' [as they would see it] of the SPL to play for...

As another poster pointed out however, the real key would be getting our own club to a level whereby we could maintain such a challenge for a few years on the bounce. Without that no long term change would ultimately happen...

[majorhibs]

I take your point about sounding like a selling club, however every club trades to improve the squad - IMHO Bamba will go for good money - there's little we can do to prevent that. What's vital is that we use the money to strengthen the squad.

We showed with the departure of Jones (and the arrival at a very, very low price of Bamba) that you can lose a key player and still strengthen the team. In fact, having Fletcher and Jones leave in pre-season should have been devastating for us, however look how we're playing because we used the money to good effect.

As for the West coast media - I actually think they'd be delighted if Hibs or another side split the OF, especially if it was at the expense of Rangers. Sports-wise, nothing shifts papers in Scotland more than the OF in crisis. If Rangers were on their knees the papers would be loving it.

Think youve gone too far on the theorising there. The west coast media as individuals, it is all too obvious, support one side or another of the gruesome twosome, the west coast media want NO-ONE intruding on that, and do everything they can in their trashy columns to prevent ANY chance of that happening.

[matty_f]

Think youve gone too far on the theorising there. The west coast media as individuals, it is all too obvious, support one side or another of the gruesome twosome, the west coast media want NO-ONE intruding on that, and do everything they can in their trashy columns to prevent ANY chance of that happening.

I dunno about that, when the news broke about Lloyds running Rangers the papers were creaming themselves about it. These guys care more about shifting papers than they do stopping someone finishing 2nd place.

I'm not saying that nobody would try and throw a spanner in the works, I just don't think that there's this desire to see the OF finish 1st and 2nd every year that they would go to the extent of deliberately trying to de-rail Hibs' season.

IIRC, up to the point where Burley walked, did the Yams not enjoy some fairly good press?

[(((Fergus)))]

Not just holland, face of football has changed in Romania and think it was a smaller club that won the Russian league last season as well was it not?

Don't know enough about these countries but could it not be that throughout Europe clubs have been overspending trying to get into European competitions when in actual fact there's not that much money to be made in it unless your consistantly doing well, couple of bad seasons and they're in the ****.

Not just football either, look at F1. Not even just in sport. The "credit crunch" revolution is changing the old order in lots of fields.

[holyrood hibbie]

Ok lets think seriously here.

Can Hibs finish second? Well yes but by March we need oto be withn a couple of points of top spot and take points away from Celtic park when were next through.

What if we lose palyers? Well Bamba's off to ACN in January so it wil be Hogg and Murray most likely at the back and either Hanlon or Stevenson on the left. Midfield wise if we lose Riordan we slot in Galbraith and if we lose Miller we slot in Cregg. Upfront if we lose Stokes we slot in Bryne. And if Stack ain't fit well Makalamby looks like a solid back up.

What about contracts? Lets starts from best to last. Zemamma needs a further 3 years, Riordan deserves a better deal, then tie Makalamby up. Put Wotherspoon and Hanlon on new deals with huge release clauses. Give Murray a new deal aswell as Hogg, god knows well need them. Give Rankin a little sweatner.

What about strenghening the team? Well Barr is coming in January I heard so there's RB filled, lets free Wotherspoon into RM. And next summer if Dundee are still in first division, which I highly doubt bring in Leigh Grithhs, hes the future of Scottish football and all shaped up to be the next Riordan.

Well theres my view but the team needs a cash boost, ie the Group Stage of the Champions League, but I can dream. Scottish cup this year maybe.

[Barney McGrew]

I take your point about sounding like a selling club, however every club trades to improve the squad - IMHO Bamba will go for good money - there's little we can do to prevent that. What's vital is that we use the money to strengthen the squad.

We showed with the departure of Jones (and the arrival at a very, very low price of Bamba) that you can lose a key player and still strengthen the team. In fact, having Fletcher and Jones leave in pre-season should have been devastating for us, however look how we're playing because we used the money to good effect.

The difficulty we'll have if we keep the results coming is that it won't just be one or two players we'll be in danger of losing. The vultures are already circling Bamba and Zouma, Murray is out of contract at the end of the season, and the likes of Miller and McBride will start to get attention if they keep playing the way they are. The wages these guys will be able to command elsewhere will turn their heads, there's no doubt in that.

The proof will comein seeing how we deal with that situation, and if it upsets the squad to any great degree.


As for the West coast media - I actually think they'd be delighted if Hibs or another side split the OF, especially if it was at the expense of Rangers. Sports-wise, nothing shifts papers in Scotland more than the OF in crisis. If Rangers were on their knees the papers would be loving it.

They'll only put up with an OF crisis for so long though. If United or Hibs or anyone else looked like they'd endanger the long term prospects of Rangers, then they'd start putting the boot in. Less huns at games means less interested huns means less papers sold for a hun 'exclusive'

[--------]

Calm it doon a bit boys. You're starting to sound like beLIEvers. :wink:

When Hearts split the OF they won their first 12 games and still only managed to scrape in to second. Finishing third or fourth would be an achievement.


The difficulty we'll have if we keep the results coming is that it won't just be one or two players we'll be in danger of losing. The vultures are already circling Bamba and Zouma, Murray is out of contract at the end of the season, and the likes of Miller and McBride will start to get attention if they keep playing the way they are. The wages these guys will be able to command elsewhere will turn their heads, there's no doubt in that.

The proof will comein seeing how we deal with that situation, and if it upsets the squad to any great degree.

They'll only put up with an OF crisis for so long though. If United or Hibs or anyone else looked like they'd endanger the long term prospects of Rangers, then they'd start putting the boot in. Less huns at games means less interested huns means less papers sold for a hun 'exclusive'.

These would be my thoughts exactly.

[ahibby]

Although things seem to be somewhat easy to us at the moment there is still a long way to go and we should be talking about whether we can still be in third spot or fourth by the end of the season. For me talk of finishing second is like talking about what we would do if we won the lottery. So it's fantasy and if that's what this thread is about then fairynuff.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I would be a lot happier discussing how we are going to spend the CL money if we were actually in 2nd place right now. Instead we are in third place, with the possibility that an Arabs win over der Hun would see us drop to fourth.

I think we are making the classic wee team mistake of counting our chickens before the egg has been laid.

[--------]

I would be a lot happier discussing how we are going to spend the CL money if we were actually in 2nd place right now. Instead we are in third place, with the possibility that an Arabs win over der Hun would see us drop to fourth.

I think we are making the classic wee team mistake of counting our chickens before the egg has been laid.


:top marks

[cockneymike]

I do understand where you're coming from Matty, and potentially you're right, but it's bit like talking about what the world will be like if we cut carbon emissions by 80% by 2050, we're a long way away from that.

Defeats at Killie away, followed by Aberdeen away and we could be a long way off 2nd.

I think it's time for the old football cliche: 'Let's just take one game at a time'.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I dunno about that, when the news broke about Lloyds running Rangers the papers were creaming themselves about it. These guys care more about shifting papers than they do stopping someone finishing 2nd place.

I'm not saying that nobody would try and throw a spanner in the works, I just don't think that there's this desire to see the OF finish 1st and 2nd every year that they would go to the extent of deliberately trying to de-rail Hibs' season.

IIRC, up to the point where Burley walked, did the Yams not enjoy some fairly good press?

They did indeed. Look at the number of folk that have been brainwashed by the “weegie media” thing though. There’s a minimum of a post a day on here when those words are mentioned - I’ve no idea why the paranoia exists.

[bingo70]

They did indeed. Look at the number of folk that have been brainwashed by the “weegie media” thing though. There’s a minimum of a post a day on here when those words are mentioned - I’ve no idea why the paranoia exists.

:agree:

Rangers and Celtic normally finish about 30 points ahead of us, why anyone would believe the old firm needed the 'weegie media' to unstable us i've no idea, we're an irrelevance to them.

The facts of the matter are in the past the old firm have always been interested in our players if they do well for us, they normally get them as well so more often than not the weejie media have been right. Different now though, rangers are skint so can't afford our players and if Mowbray wanted any of our players he would have made moves by now, possibly with the exception of Zemmama but if he's linked with celtic it'll probably because they're genuinely interested in him.

[Houchy]

Calm it doon a bit boys. You're starting to sound like beLIEvers:wink:

When Hearts split the OF they won their first 12 games and still only managed to scrape in to second.

Finishing third or fourth would be an acheivement.

:agree: But the old firm were no where near as bad as what they are at the moment back then. Rankers are dropping points on a far more frequent basis than they have ever done in the past. I just think that if we are ever going to get 2nd, this is the year to do it.

:notworthy:

[matty_f]

These would be my thoughts exactly.


Although things seem to be somewhat easy to us at the moment there is still a long way to go and we should be talking about whether we can still be in third spot or fourth by the end of the season. For me talk of finishing second is like talking about what we would do if we won the lottery. So it's fantasy and if that's what this thread is about then fairynuff.


I would be a lot happier discussing how we are going to spend the CL money if we were actually in 2nd place right now. Instead we are in third place, with the possibility that an Arabs win over der Hun would see us drop to fourth.

I think we are making the classic wee team mistake of counting our chickens before the egg has been laid.


:top marks


No offence folks, but did you actually read the thread?

I am not talking about predicting we'll finish second, i was talking about the potential importance of any team (but particularly us) finishing second given the dire straits that Rangers are in.

[Phil D. Rolls]

No offence folks, but did you actually read the thread?

I am not talking about predicting we'll finish second, i was talking about the potential importance of any team (but particularly us) finishing second given the dire straits that Rangers are in.

There is a big prize to play for, not only in terms of the Scottish League but future European franchises. It would be nice to think that Hibs can take advantage of the realignment of clubs throughout Europe.

Sorry if I hijacked your thread there, because I can see that is what you were saying, and I went off at a tangent.

[Cropley10]

Got to be realistic here and say that we are a million miles away from the Europa League, let alone the Champions League. Hibs are playing okay, but not great. We deserve to be where we are, down to the work ethic of the players and team spirit that is in place, and having a good manager. The football could be a whole lot better if we are honest. And we have not seen how this team reacts to injuries to key players. We have been lucky that it's been only one player out at a time, but what will the team be like if say Bamba (who leaves for the ANC in January), Riordan and Miller were out injured at the same time for a period of games ? Say Stack doesn't recover fully from his back injury ? What if we actually sell a couple of players in January due to offers being too good to be true ? The next 4 games IMO are the ones which will reveal a lot about the side this season, given our lofty position. Wins away to bogey grounds like Todders and Rugby Park, and wins versus Rangers (surely we are due one) and the Yams would naturally give us all increased expectations (and rightfully so). But we are Hibernian, and we do like to do things the hard way. The OF have depth of squad (even if they are poor) and will fight out the top spots. Third and the chance of Europe (and a good cup run) will suit me fine this year (and is altogether more achievable), as it will be a marked improvement all round on the last 4 years. Poor as their finances are, Rangers can sadly service their debt levels, and still remain competitive in Scotland. It's our neighbours that cannot and will struggle to survive.#

Spot on :agree:

If we get past the Derby still in touch or even ahead of the Gers then I would HOPE we'll do the right thing in terms of the squad - Murray a new, better, longer contract, a CH and even a striker. But I'm also aware that Bamba may well go for a decent fee in January.

Even if we or Utd did finish 2nd I don't think, Matty, that it will change Scottish football. But, do you know what, it's a hell of a lot more interesting than it has been for years.

Mon the Cabbage!

[Hakim Sar]

Calm it doon a bit boys. You're starting to sound like beLIEvers:wink:

When Hearts split the OF they won their first 12 games and still only managed to scrape in to second.

Finishing third or fourth would be an acheivement.

Exactly. Let's allow ourselves to dream for ambitions sake but also maintain clarity that to finish 3rd is a remarkable achievement. hard work and a slice of luck and it could be possible but I think it is just vital to lay some foundations in the league at the moment. a favourable draw in Europa league, for example, could give us access to vital revenue the we could go for it a bit.

How nice is it to be talking about this stuff tho??? very happy hibee!

[modsquad]

The reality for Scottish football now is that to finish second is unlikely to get you into the Chamions League now.

With the way the draw is now, as Celtic found out, the draw is now split into Champions & Non Champions.

I'm not sure where Scotland now fit in the co-efficiants so the team who finishes second may have to play in the second round. If not, they will go into the third qualifying round (Non Champions pot). Celtic were seeded and drew Dynamo Moscow. Among the seeded teams were Sporting Lisbon. Going out there would mean no parachute into the Europa League. If the second team gets through they then are likely to face a team like Arsenal.

Its a tough ask for anyone.

Theres never been a better opportunity for the OF to be split because both of them are pesh poor. Personally, I hope someone does split the OF but if we look at the performances of Scottish football teams in Europe this season against 'lesser' teams, Vaduz, Hapoel, Unirea, Bohemians Prague, there a long way for Scottish teams to go to be competing rather than playing in Europe

[wee 162]

If you can finish second, you can finish first in this league afaic. Absolutely no point in aiming for second when the league has been won by not a lot of points in most of the last few years.

Just on the CL thing. Scotland does not have an automatic place next year, but whoever wins the SPL this season will not have a ridicilously hard game. You go through the "champions route" which is the way the likes of FC Zurich (beat Ventspils) and Maccabi Haifa (beat Salzburg) got in.

[Dashing Bob S]

I actually think that finishing 3rd would be better for us than finishing second. We would have two preseason CL qualifiers (at least) and I very much doubt that any Scottish club who finish second will play in the CL groups for a long, long time. (In fact, I can't see the first place team making it easily.)

I'd be more than happy with a two-legged tie in August to give us a tilt at the Europa groups. I really believe that the Huns might actually strategicaly hold back and aim to finish 3rd, once they recognise that 2nd place in the SPL, as far as Europe goes, is a poisoned challice.

[ballengeich]

Just on the CL thing. Scotland does not have an automatic place next year, but whoever wins the SPL this season will not have a ridicilously hard game. You go through the "champions route" which is the way the likes of FC Zurich (beat Ventspils) and Maccabi Haifa (beat Salzburg) got in.

It's likely that the champions will get direct access to the group phase. If the CL winners also qualify through their domestic league an extra automatic place is made available to the 13th placed country's champions. It's how Standard Liege got in this season and it would be the Scottish champions next year.

[ballengeich]

I'm not sure where Scotland now fit in the co-efficiants so the team who finishes second may have to play in the second round. If not, they will go into the third qualifying round (Non Champions pot). Celtic were seeded and drew Dynamo Moscow. Among the seeded teams were Sporting Lisbon. Going out there would mean no parachute into the Europa League. If the second team gets through they then are likely to face a team like Arsenal.


None of the non-champions play until the third qualifying round. The losers in that go into the Europa fourth qualifying round. Scotland's second team will have the same path next season as Celtic this year.

[Horse]

Now before I begin I would like to make it clear that I am only talking theoretically and do not believe this will happen but:

If Utd beat the Huns in the game in hand they'll go second (1 point behind Celtic). Imagine the Huns continue their downward spiral and Mogga descends into a John Barnes/Paul Le Guen style quagmire over the next few months. Add to this Hibs and Utd continuing to grind out results. An unthinkable scenario would then be on the cards that Hibs and Utd could take the first two spots leaving the OF in 3rd and 4th. Next season the OF would both have no champions league, the glory hunters would disappear back into the gutter and Hibs and Utd would be in a far stronger position financially that either have been in the recent past.

The door would then be open for Aberdeen to begin to challenge (if they ever manage to appoint a manager who has the slightest idea about football) along with Hibs and Utd again next season. Eventually the sectarian franchise would regain their stranglehold on the game but it could open up an opportunity to have a renaissance in our game akin to that of the early '80's where Utd and Aberdeen were the main forces for a few years, even the big pink circus almost managed to challenge in '86 but I think they were thwarted by some wee moustached dude at Dens Park or something! Between him and Rod I'm beginning to think that moustached guys are some sort of super humans!

As I said, the above scenario is unlikely but you never know. One thing's for sure, if Scottish Football does enjoy a renaissance with other teams challenging for the title then the massive club from Gorgie will be in with a shout of challenging for the title next year.... the first division title that is! They'll be unbearable if they win the Challenge Cup next year, it's bad enough listening to their Scottish Cup jibes but at least we've won that cup a couple of times, imagine how bad the Jambos would be if they won a cup that we've never won in our history!

[ancient hibee]

It's almost certain thet the SPL winner will go straight into the group stages.According to what I was reading today that will be worth about £15million because of the way the TV money is calculated-that will make a huge difference to whoever wins.

[Woody1985]

I actually think that finishing 3rd would be better for us than finishing second. We would have two preseason CL qualifiers (at least) and I very much doubt that any Scottish club who finish second will play in the CL groups for a long, long time. (In fact, I can't see the first place team making it easily.)

I'd be more than happy with a two-legged tie in August to give us a tilt at the Europa groups. I really believe that the Huns might actually strategicaly hold back and aim to finish 3rd, once they recognise that 2nd place in the SPL, as far as Europe goes, is a poisoned challice.

You make a very good point but is going through a 2nd CL qualifier much harder than the round prior to the EL?

Even still though, if we got through the 2nd qualifier then we would parachute into the EL anyway from the 3rd, wouldn't we? Or is that changing from the start of next season?

I don't think the Rangers fans would accept 3rd TBH!

[Woody1985]

Now before I begin I would like to make it clear that I am only talking theoretically and do not believe this will happen but:

If Utd beat the Huns in the game in hand they'll go second (1 point behind Celtic). Imagine the Huns continue their downward spiral and Mogga descends into a John Barnes/Paul Le Guen style quagmire over the next few months. Add to this Hibs and Utd continuing to grind out results. An unthinkable scenario would then be on the cards that Hibs and Utd could take the first two spots leaving the OF in 3rd and 4th. Next season the OF would both have no champions league, the glory hunters would disappear back into the gutter and Hibs and Utd would be in a far stronger position financially that either have been in the recent past.

The door would then be open for Aberdeen to begin to challenge (if they ever manage to appoint a manager who has the slightest idea about football) along with Hibs and Utd again next season. Eventually the sectarian franchise would regain their stranglehold on the game but it could open up an opportunity to have a renaissance in our game akin to that of the early '80's where Utd and Aberdeen were the main forces for a few years, even the big pink circus almost managed to challenge in '86 but I think they were thwarted by some wee moustached dude at Dens Park or something! Between him and Rod I'm beginning to think that moustached guys are some sort of super humans!

As I said, the above scenario is unlikely but you never know. One thing's for sure, if Scottish Football does enjoy a renaissance with other teams challenging for the title then the massive club from Gorgie will be in with a shout of challenging for the title next year.... the first division title that is! They'll be unbearable if they win the Challenge Cup next year, it's bad enough listening to their Scottish Cup jibes but at least we've won that cup a couple of times, imagine how bad the Jambos would be if they won a cup that we've never won in our history!

Imagine if a big pink elephant fell out of the sky. :rolleyes: I heard that straight from the Horses mouth, it could happen.

[mjhibby]

Calm it doon a bit boys. You're starting to sound like beLIEvers:wink:

When Hearts split the OF they won their first 12 games and still only managed to scrape in to second.

Finishing third or fourth would be an acheivement.

We cant let ourselves get drawn into the hype in the press about finishing in the top two.Yogis target must now be no lower than 4th and 3rd realistically.We seem to be avioding sendings off and too many injuries or at least muddling through with not fully fit players as happened at the pbs.To use the old cliche just take one game at a time and come february we can readjust our targets if necessary.The press seem to be trying to heap pressure on ourselves and the arabs to finish above rangers and they and celtic still have a must better squad than ours.
If we are lucky with injuries,loss of form and referees giving us fair decisions then we can hope to stay up there for a good while yet.We can fantasise all we want about champions league but the odds are greatly stacked against us not least because the non old firm teams now see us as the big scalp to take.
3 points at killie is all yogi and the boys will be thinking about before a wee a sweetie of a game against that mild mannered dons team.:thumbsup:

[Hibrandenburg]

Whoops, sorry guys, thought I'd logged onto Hibs Net there for a moment.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Whoops, sorry guys, thought I'd logged onto Hibs Net there for a moment.

Can someone list all the posts where someone has claimed we’ll finish 2nd?

[big-mo]

There is a lot of talk here about the media not wanting us to succeed, I am not sure how many of you listened to Paper Talk on Monday evening, (fortunately without that idiot Traynor) but they were saying just the opposite, but they are journalist and you normally can tell they are lying because their lips are moving or they are using a keyboard. Worth a listen about 15 mins in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00pqdv4/Paper_Talk_with_Jim_Traynor_07_12_2009/ (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00pqdv4/Paper_Talk_with_Jim_Traynor_07_12_2009/)

As for us selling players you have to remember that there many of our players who have been at the ‘Big Clubs’ and either joined us or have returned to ER. Many of them will know the grass is not always greener. We have many players would have been with EPL clubs including, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd as well as the old firm so they might not be so keen to leave.

We are also the only SPL club aside from Celtic who are still a buying club, and that was the reason that Scott Lindsay put out that message yesterday, just in case any agents thought we would be an easy touch. And as for strengthen the team next month, I don’t think that we will be trawling the likes of half decent players in the SPL but I think there will be a few more surprises to come.

[Sunny1875]

I want Hibs to finish First
I hope we finish top
would not just like to split the OF but would like to see them behind us

same as every season since i started supporting Hibs (early 70's) Thats what all supporters should want for thier team.

Do I really think we will do it - 3rd would be great to be honest anything above that great.

[mjhibby]

And therein lies the problem, Matty. We're still talking and acting like a selling club, and until such times when we can keep a good squad together for 2 or 3 years we're never going to realistically challenge for a CL place.
And another thing, if we were still genuinely challenging for 2nd come the new year, the west coast media would panic, and try to undermine Hibs in any way possible (Daily ****** being the main culprit). There will be scurrilous rumours about dressing room unrest, transfer requests etc etc. I'll never forget - or forgive - the gutter media (Real Radio included) for the way in which they spent several weeks hysterically trying to sell off Thomson and Brown to one half or the other of Rantic. Pathetic I know,but no non old filth club will ever be allowed to hold on to a title challenging team. :grr:

But if say a bid of £2.5m came in for bamba surely with barr waiting in the wings and yogi with another couple of targets then we could well be much stronger.Players like bamba will leave eventually so we need to make sure its on our terms and which helps yogi make the team stronger.

[7Hero]

just got the feeling that despite this being the best ever chance, we will not push the boat out in january to try and get 2nd or 1st. If by some chance that we did get 2nd, i can't see the board then doing anything with that CL cash on the playing side.

Just not ambitous / stupid enough are they ?

[soupy]

:thumbsup::thumbsup:
Just say No, kids

[Sir David Gray]

just got the feeling that despite this being the best ever chance, we will not push the boat out in january to try and get 2nd or 1st. If by some chance that we did get 2nd, i can't see the board then doing anything with that CL cash on the playing side.

Just not ambitous / stupid enough are they ?

Granted the money that we would receive for finishing 2nd would be much greater than any kind of money that we are used to getting for finishes in 3rd, 4th, 5th etc but making the qualifying stages of the Champions League really doesn't make the club a fortune.

We would really need to get to the group stages before any kind of serious money would come our way.

As it happens, if we did just get to the qualifying rounds of the Champions League, I believe that the board would release funds for John Hughes to go out and bring in a few players. I'm not saying he would have £5-6 million to spend but I do think they would back him financially.

[7Hero]

Granted the money that we would receive for finishing 2nd would be much greater than any kind of money that we are used to getting for finishes in 3rd, 4th, 5th etc but making the qualifying stages of the Champions League really doesn't make the club a fortune.

We would really need to get to the group stages before any kind of serious money would come our way.

As it happens, if we did just get to the qualifying rounds of the Champions League, I believe that the board would release funds for John Hughes to go out and bring in a few players. I'm not saying he would have £5-6 million to spend but I do think they would back him financially.

sorry for not being clear, i meant if we were given the group money (5-6 say)i feel the club wouldn't invest it as a lot of you think, ie into the team..

[Sir David Gray]

sorry for not being clear, i meant if we were given the group money (5-6 say)i feel the club wouldn't invest it as a lot of you think, ie into the team..

I honestly think that if Hibs were to ever make the group stages of the Champions League :pray:, the board would provide Hughes with quite a substantial amount of money.

Again, it's not going to be in the same league as the kind of money that teams who are regularly competing in the latter stages of the Champions League are paying out on transfer fees and salaries, since they generate far more income from other sources than we do but I do think we would see a much higher standard of player coming to Easter Road as a result.

[Andy74]

sorry for not being clear, i meant if we were given the group money (5-6 say)i feel the club wouldn't invest it as a lot of you think, ie into the team..

Where would it go? The stand would be an obvious one but after that?

[Dashing Bob S]

There is a lot of talk here about the media not wanting us to succeed, I am not sure how many of you listened to Paper Talk on Monday evening, (fortunately without that idiot Traynor) but they were saying just the opposite, but they are journalist and you normally can tell they are lying because their lips are moving or they are using a keyboard. Worth a listen about 15 mins in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00pqdv4/Paper_Talk_with_Jim_Traynor_07_12_2009/ (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00pqdv4/Paper_Talk_with_Jim_Traynor_07_12_2009/)

As for us selling players you have to remember that there many of our players who have been at the ‘Big Clubs’ and either joined us or have returned to ER. Many of them will know the grass is not always greener. We have many players would have been with EPL clubs including, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd as well as the old firm so they might not be so keen to leave.

We are also the only SPL club aside from Celtic who are still a buying club, and that was the reason that Scott Lindsay put out that message yesterday, just in case any agents thought we would be an easy touch. And as for strengthen the team next month, I don’t think that we will be trawling the likes of half decent players in the SPL but I think there will be a few more surprises to come.

I agree that everybody should ignore the garbage spouted in our moribund, self-important newspapers. The sooner those things vanish of the face of the Earth, the better for us all. They'll try to hype up and then undermine Hibs and United and its all irrelevant bluster and bull****, what happens is what Yogi and the boys do on the park. The boring dictum of 'each game as it comes' has to apply.