Should Drugs Be Legalised?

[Dashing Bob S]

I'm not sure about this one. Basically drugs nowadays are pretty poor quality (anybody who would buy what they call 'ecstasy' or 'cocaine' nowadays is clearly stupid in my book. They are in the hands of a criminal underclass who don't care about quality, safety etc (at least the hippies sold decent drugs) and the drug trade is probably now the sole way for an ambitious but poor and undereducated young man to make his way in the world. It has introduced a degree of ruthlessness into criminal (and therefore social life) hiherto unseen.

All those problems could be solved if other intoxicants were treated in the same way as alcohol.

The problem is that we seem to have created a society that cannot meet the economic, social and spiritual needs of the majority of its citizens, so drugs/alcohol/painkillers/sleeping tablets seem to fill the gap. I can see a point coming when we're pretty much all medicated by the state. That doesn't sound too good.

Thoughts?

[Phil D. Rolls]

I'm not sure about this one. Basically drugs nowadays are pretty poor quality (anybody who would buy what they call 'ecstasy' or 'cocaine' nowadays is clearly stupid in my book. They are in the hands of a criminal underclass who don't care about quality, safety etc (at least the hippies sold decent drugs) and the drug trade is probably now the sole way for an ambitious but poor and undereducated young man to make his way in the world. It has introduced a degree of ruthlessness into criminal (and therefore social life) hiherto unseen.

All those problems could be solved if other intoxicants were treated in the same way as alcohol.

The problem is that we seem to have created a society that cannot meet the economic, social and spiritual needs of the majority of its citizens, so drugs/alcohol/painkillers/sleeping tablets seem to fill the gap. I can see a point coming when we're pretty much all medicated by the state. That doesn't sound too good.

Thoughts?

You mean they're illegal? Oh b*gger. :hide:

[steakbake]

id like it to be legal to grow your own plants for personal consumption. not that i do that just now, just for the record.

[sleeping giant]

id like it to be legal to grow your own plants for personal consumption. not that i do that just now, just for the record.

I'm with you on that one too.!

Own plants for own use. Hurting nobody !

[Judas Iscariot]

I'm with you on that one too.!

Own plants for own use. Hurting nobody !

Own crack for own use?

[lEXO]

Dunno about this one.A few people have died recently from the legal highs on sale.This stuff passes a quality control system and still kills.Dunno if this is down to the quantity they have taken or reaction to it.It,s a funny one because the same can be said for bevvy and fags.Canny really see any government having the balls to pass it.Look at what happened when they re-classified dope.As soon as everybody started to smoke superskunk they came up with some stats to say it contributed to mental health problems.They changed it back pretty sharpish.Pros and cons to both sides.If they do you can be sure of one thing, we will get hammered in tax for it.

[Killiehibbie]

It would take a brave government to do this. Think of all the criminals virtually out of business overnight, millions saved on the war on drugs, much less petty crime and more space in prisons for real crooks like MP's.

[sleeping giant]

Own crack for own use?

Whatever floats your boat mate :confused:

[Sir David Gray]

I'm with you on that one too.!

Own plants for own use. Hurting nobody !

I assume you're talking about cannabis?

If so, cannabis use has been shown to increase the likelihood of being affected by anxiety, psychosis and depression.

If you get any of the above, it's likely that you will require medical attention on the NHS, which affects the taxpayer and the user's loved ones.

[ancient hibee]

I assume you're talking about cannabis?

If so, cannabis use has been shown to increase the likelihood of being affected by anxiety, psychosis and depression.

If you get any of the above, it's likely that you will require medical attention on the NHS, which affects the taxpayer and the user's loved ones.
Cannabis use-supporting Hibs-what's the difference?

[Killiehibbie]

Cannabis use-supporting Hibs-what's the difference?
It actually helps to use lots before going to see Hibs.

[Mibbes Aye]

I'm not sure about this one. Basically drugs nowadays are pretty poor quality (anybody who would buy what they call 'ecstasy' or 'cocaine' nowadays is clearly stupid in my book. They are in the hands of a criminal underclass who don't care about quality, safety etc (at least the hippies sold decent drugs) and the drug trade is probably now the sole way for an ambitious but poor and undereducated young man to make his way in the world. It has introduced a degree of ruthlessness into criminal (and therefore social life) hiherto unseen.

All those problems could be solved if other intoxicants were treated in the same way as alcohol.

The problem is that we seem to have created a society that cannot meet the economic, social and spiritual needs of the majority of its citizens, so drugs/alcohol/painkillers/sleeping tablets seem to fill the gap. I can see a point coming when we're pretty much all medicated by the state. That doesn't sound too good.

Thoughts?

It's one of those good questions that captures where someone sits on the spectrum of state intervention I suppose.

One's views on whether it should be allowed are bound to be informed by whether one believes personal choice outweighs societal responsibility, given an assumption that 'drug use' isn't generally conducive to a "good society". Lots of subjectivity going on there, I acknowledge.

If we go down the path that people should be trusted to make decisions about using drugs then I would think we do need some sort of change to the taxation/insurance system to cover the future costs. Suppose it would be akin to what has happened with tobacco and alcohol, where the proportion of tax has steadily creeped up in order to balance out the fact that the long-term consequences of their mass usage cost a fortune to the state. It's hard to see this not becoming inequitable though - it's unlikely to ever be less than needed and is more likely to be punitive, as a means of increasing income or as a very blunt tool aimed to decrease usage, rather than a like-for-like recouping of the impact of people's lifestyle choices.

As for your closing paragraph about our unmet need, it's hard not to disagree. Easy to argue there's a gaping, empty void in people's lives created by our inability to sate our perceived need to consume. That'll be capitalism for you :greengrin.

[sleeping giant]

I assume you're talking about cannabis?

If so, cannabis use has been shown to increase the likelihood of being affected by anxiety, psychosis and depression.

If you get any of the above, it's likely that you will require medical attention on the NHS, which affects the taxpayer and the user's loved ones.

What is it you are trying to say FH ?

I know the health risks associated with using Cannabis .

[libernian]

anyone read "high society" by ben elton, real good read even if you dont like the author (most folk dont) bout politics, drugs, prostitution etc but not in irvine welsh kinda way.

anyway, that mephedrone legal high goin around the now everyone taking it, imagine if cocaine was legalised! everybody n their dug would be doing it!

[Arch Stanton]

I assume you're talking about cannabis?

If so, cannabis use has been shown to increase the likelihood of being affected by anxiety, psychosis and depression.

If you get any of the above, it's likely that you will require medical attention on the NHS, which affects the taxpayer and the user's loved ones.

Maybe so but it hasn't shown which is the cause and which is the effect. Anxious and depressed people who are using cannabis to self-medicate are actually saving the taxpayer money.

And yes, I know that cannabis can induce a psychotic reaction in those people who have a high risk of developing schizophrenia,however, it is arguably better to have early warning of such a debilitating illness for the relatively small number of people affected.

[steakbake]

What is it you are trying to say FH ?

I know the health risks associated with using Cannabis .

Have you ever seen "reefer madness"?

[GhostofBolivar]

I assume you're talking about cannabis?

If so, cannabis use has been shown to increase the likelihood of being affected by anxiety, psychosis and depression.

If you get any of the above, it's likely that you will require medical attention on the NHS, which affects the taxpayer and the user's loved ones.

But it's still less dangerous than either smoking or alcohol.

Cannabis is illegal, the other's aren't. Surely the tax revenue can't have anything to do with it?

[Woody1985]

anyone read "high society" by ben elton, real good read even if you dont like the author (most folk dont) bout politics, drugs, prostitution etc but not in irvine welsh kinda way.

anyway, that mephedrone legal high goin around the now everyone taking it, imagine if cocaine was legalised! everybody n their dug would be doing it!

That stuff is dangerous.

It's already banned in the US and Australia IIRC and should be high on the list to be banned asap.

[Phil D. Rolls]

That stuff is dangerous.

It's already banned in the US and Australia IIRC and should be high on the list to be banned asap.

All they have to do is alter the molecule by one atom and it's legal again. People want to get high, and the law is what is driving them to unsafe drugs.

Wouldn't it be great if the laws were designed to protect people from harm, rather than stop them doing something that others (who I'm not sure) consider immoral.

Wouldn't it be great if the money that is spent on the pointless war on drugs (40 odd years and counting) was redirected to mental health research/care, education or some other positive cause?

[CheesyHibby]

I do think it somewhat bizaare that both fags and bevvy can do more damage than some 'illegal' drugs. FWIW, people will always try and get high or become addicted to things. Its a fact of life and the government must make a fortune on taxes on cigarettes and alcohol. It is true that part of the attraction of illegal drugs is that they are illegal, illicit. I don't think any government would ever have the balls to legalise ecstasy or even cannabis completely, certainly not in Britain. Can you imagine the front page of the Daily Mail or the Express if someone put this forward as a serious proposal?

[Marabou Stork]

Legalised?

They should be compulsory.

This about sums up my views.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFHU1X1PED4)

[Woody1985]

All they have to do is alter the molecule by one atom and it's legal again. People want to get high, and the law is what is driving them to unsafe drugs.

Wouldn't it be great if the laws were designed to protect people from harm, rather than stop them doing something that others (who I'm not sure) consider immoral.

Wouldn't it be great if the money that is spent on the pointless war on drugs (40 odd years and counting) was redirected to mental health research/care, education or some other positive cause?

I agree and understand what you are saying.

Given that the stuff is a legal chemical why the hell does it need to be sold as 'bath salts' and 'Plant Feeder'?

Do they do that so it is more discreet for users?

I'd go as far as saying that methodrome is more dangerous than cocaine. Search for Ivory Wave online and you'll get some people's experiences. Not nice.

[steakbake]

Legalised?

They should be compulsory.

This about sums up my views.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFHU1X1PED4)

I was going to say that earlier on.

Everyone should do a trip at least once in their life and I reckon if they put weed in the water supply, the world would be a bit more chilled out.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I agree and understand what you are saying.

Given that the stuff is a legal chemical why the hell does it need to be sold as 'bath salts' and 'Plant Feeder'?

Do they do that so it is more discreet for users?

I'd go as far as saying that methodrome is more dangerous than cocaine. Search for Ivory Wave online and you'll get some people's experiences. Not nice.

Loved this one:


i got 3 grams of this just over a week ago now, ive not got much left, and ive not slept since i got it. great times, but dont give it to your dog, i gave mine some and he went ****ing mental for what must have been a whole day (not sure exactly how long, had curtains closed and lost all perception of time for a lot of the week) (Posted on 24/11/2009)

Can you buy this stuff in Edinburgh? Eh, I've got this mate who, eh, has a dug he disnae like.

[sleeping giant]

Have you ever seen "reefer madness"?

I have not.

Can i just clarify that i am not some hippy activist .:greengrin

[steakbake]

I have not.

Can i just clarify that i am not some hippy activist .:greengrin

Neither am I.

Reefer Madness was a film made in the 60s about the dangers of weed. Sufficed to say, its ill informed, panic merchant content is hilarious.

[duncs]

I've only read Nick Davies' book about the media, though he briefly mentioned the 'heroin lie', which more can be read of here:

http://25by4.channel4.com/chapter_6/article_2

Pretty interesting stuff really.

For my part, I think bringing drugs legally into society would do a lot more good than exists right now.

[Killiehibbie]

I've only read Nick Davies' book about the media, though he briefly mentioned the 'heroin lie', which more can be read of here:

http://25by4.channel4.com/chapter_6/article_2

Pretty interesting stuff really.

For my part, I think bringing drugs legally into society would do a lot more good than exists right now.

I remember reading much the same thing written by 2 addicted Doctors about 25 years ago. The gist of what they said was controlled clean supplies and nobody would even knew they were addicts.

[sleeping giant]

Neither am I.

Reefer Madness was a film made in the 60s about the dangers of weed. Sufficed to say, its ill informed, panic merchant content is hilarious.

You only need to read the words "Super Skunk" :rolleyes:in an article to quickly dismiss it as ill informed.
Infact , its been mentioned on this thread already.

I'm not for promoting it in any way but if you want to grow weed for personal use , i don't see the problem.


Just to add before someone corrects me :greengrin
I know you can get excellent Super Skunk but thats not what the politicians are talking about in the media.
They're meaning that " wackybacky" stuff:greengrin

[sleeping giant]

I watched a superb documentary about LSD and Albert Hofmann !

I can't find it just now as its on my other laptop !


He tested it on himself and talks about his findings. They were talking about it being the new wonder drug to change the world.

[steakbake]

I watched a superb documentary about LSD and Albert Hofmann !

I can't find it just now as its on my other laptop !


He tested it on himself and talks about his findings. They were talking about it being the new wonder drug to change the world.

Yep, very interesting it was too. Terence McKenna is also worth reading.

http://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/mckenna_terence/mckenna_terence.shtml

"Food of the Gods" is very interesting indeed.

[sleeping giant]

Hoffmans Potion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFfblVjCwOU)

[IWasThere2016]

Yes - the war against them is long lost IMHO

[HibsMax]

id like it to be legal to grow your own plants for personal consumption. not that i do that just now, just for the record.

:agree:

[HibsMax]

I assume you're talking about cannabis?

If so, cannabis use has been shown to increase the likelihood of being affected by anxiety, psychosis and depression.

If you get any of the above, it's likely that you will require medical attention on the NHS, which affects the taxpayer and the user's loved ones.
Smoking cigarettes causes more problems than smoking weed....but they're legal.

Drinking alcohol causes more problems than smoking weed....but it's still legal.

Now I am not suggesting that THREE wrongs make a right but we have to have a level playing field here in my opinion.

I think you're reaching a little with your argument above. I know a lot of people who smoke pot yet I don't know any who exhibit any of the traits you talk about above.

It's a plant that grows naturally. Imagine being told you're not allowed to grow tomatoes any more just because someone doesn't want you to.

My vote goes to whomever stands up and says that each individual has the right to grow for personal consumption. Apart from anything else, if you know what you're doing the quality is better than what you buy on the street.......so I've been told.

[Woody1985]

Smoking cigarettes causes more problems than smoking weed....but they're legal.

Drinking alcohol causes more problems than smoking weed....but it's still legal.

Now I am not suggesting that THREE wrongs make a right but we have to have a level playing field here in my opinion.

I think you're reaching a little with your argument above. I know a lot of people who smoke pot yet I don't know any who exhibit any of the traits you talk about above.

It's a plant that grows naturally. Imagine being told you're not allowed to grow tomatoes any more just because someone doesn't want you to.

My vote goes to whomever stands up and says that each individual has the right to grow for personal consumption. Apart from anything else, if you know what you're doing the quality is better than what you buy on the street.......so I've been told.

Whilst I agree with you in the main it's more complicated that than.

Banning alcohol and fags would create a massive black market just now.

Personally I do know people who display the negative signs of hash/weed smoking (+5/10 joints a day).

You could argue that opium is also natural and should be okay etc. Just because it's natural doesn't mean it won't **** you up!

[HibsMax]

Whilst I agree with you in the main it's more complicated that than.

Banning alcohol and fags would create a massive black market just now.

Personally I do know people who display the negative signs of hash/weed smoking (+5/10 joints a day).

You could argue that opium is also natural and should be okay etc. Just because it's natural doesn't mean it won't **** you up!

Yeah, I agree but you could also grow poisonous mushrooms and eat them if you so desired. Not sure if there is any regulation against that.

I don't claim to know anything about opium but does it not need some processing to become a drug? With pot all you need to do is clip it off the plant, cure it and smoke it. I know that cocaine has to go through a process.

I also know some people who smoke way more than they probably should but then I know people who smoke more and drink more than they should. I didn't say that I didn't know people who smoke too much pot (which is subjective anyway), I just said that I don't know of anyone who requires medical attention because of their habits. As another poster said above, some people use cannabis for medicinal reasons.

I think it's a tough argument when all drugs are lumped together....mainly because they're so vastly different as are their affects.

But the world is changing. Recently Massachusetts State law was changed so that if you are caught with up to 1oz of pot, you get it confiscated and a $100 rather than having to go to court, etc. That speaks volumes in my opinion.


I'm sticking my neck out here but the fact of the matter is this....if smoking weed was THAT bad for you then there would be far more evidence proliferating the internet and in the media telling us just that. But I don't see that anywhere. Some people will react differently than others, and it depends on how much / often you smoke, how you smoke, etc.

[Woody1985]

Yeah, I agree but you could also grow poisonous mushrooms and eat them if you so desired. Not sure if there is any regulation against that.

I don't claim to know anything about opium but does it not need some processing to become a drug? With pot all you need to do is clip it off the plant, cure it and smoke it. I know that cocaine has to go through a process.

I also know some people who smoke way more than they probably should but then I know people who smoke more and drink more than they should. I didn't say that I didn't know people who smoke too much pot (which is subjective anyway), I just said that I don't know of anyone who requires medical attention because of their habits. As another poster said above, some people use cannabis for medicinal reasons.

I think it's a tough argument when all drugs are lumped together....mainly because they're so vastly different as are their affects.

But the world is changing. Recently Massachusetts State law was changed so that if you are caught with up to 1oz of pot, you get it confiscated and a $100 rather than having to go to court, etc. That speaks volumes in my opinion.

I'm sticking my neck out here but the fact of the matter is this....if smoking weed was THAT bad for you then there would be far more evidence proliferating the internet and in the media telling us just that. But I don't see that anywhere. Some people will react differently than others, and it depends on how much / often you smoke, how you smoke, etc.

I suspect you could grow them but you're not going to sell them to your mate after you have grown them. The government get pissed off when they miss out on tax revenue. If they could get away with it politically they'd legalise everything and tax it to the hilt.

Not sure of the process but suspect it is the same as coke.

I think the difference with weed is that you are unlikely to realise you need medical attention. With the drink you can get pissed, fall over, hurt yourself, get into fights, get violent etc and it is immediately obvious to a lot of people. Smoking weed is different, people sit around their house getting melted.

Re the fines, I suspect that could be similar to here where it became out of control and too much time was being spent on it in courts for small bits etc although I've not looked.

I think more time is needed to confirm the precise issues but I could comfortably say that it will give people varying degrees of paranoia!

I should add that I have no objections to it being legalised. I've been to the dam 5 times and thoroughly enjoyed everytime :greengrin

[Sumner]

no.

[Woody1985]

I just realised that my post was the first to be removed. I suspect it was in relation to referring people to look on the internet for symptoms of previously mentioned (legal) substance.

It wasn't my intention to advertise, I was actually pointing out the dangerous symptoms of the substance in question.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I just realised that my post was the first to be removed. I suspect it was in relation to referring people to look on the internet for symptoms of previously mentioned (legal) substance.

It wasn't my intention to advertise, I was actually pointing out the dangerous symptoms of the substance in question.

I think the information was very useful Woody, it certainly doesn't sound like something I'd want to try after the way you described it.

[SlickShoes]

anyone read "high society" by ben elton, real good read even if you dont like the author (most folk dont) bout politics, drugs, prostitution etc but not in irvine welsh kinda way.

anyway, that mephedrone legal high goin around the now everyone taking it, imagine if cocaine was legalised! everybody n their dug would be doing it!

Not everyone would though, some people choose not to smoke or drink. I dont know anyone at all that buys legal highs either.

I dont really want to take anything that will impair my judgement and stop me from doing the things i enjoy. I know after ive been out drinking im not much use for anything which is one of the reasons i hardly ever go out drinking anymore as it just stops me doing other things.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Not everyone would though, some people choose not to smoke or drink. I dont know anyone at all that buys legal highs either.

I dont really want to take anything that will impair my judgement and stop me from doing the things i enjoy. I know after ive been out drinking im not much use for anything which is one of the reasons i hardly ever go out drinking anymore as it just stops me doing other things.

I think that most people would choose not to be out of their heads on drugs, for the same reason that they chose not to spend their lives in an alcoholic stupor. They have other things to get on with.

[Woody1985]

I think the information was very useful Woody, it certainly doesn't sound like something I'd want to try after the way you described it.

How did that dog get on? :faf:

[Phil D. Rolls]

How did that dog get on? :faf:

Managed to get a game for Hearts on Sunday, got involved in an altercation with the ref, and ended up flat on it's arse after it mistook a water bottle for it's basket. A sad sad example of the dangers of drugs.

[Woody1985]

Managed to get a game for Hearts on Sunday, got involved in an altercation with the ref, and ended up flat on it's arse after it mistook a water bottle for it's basket. A sad sad example of the dangers of drugs.

:greengrin

I think he needs some performancing enhancing x1,000,000 ones!