Hutchison Vale

[sunshine1875]

Really enjoyed listening to the Hutchison Vale piece on BBC Alba last night and did not know that there was tie up between Hibs and HV in the final year of Alex Miller's time at Hibs. They said this even meant the HV teams playing in the Hibs purple strip.

Also, I thought Tam spoke very well about HV's approach to coaching the boys teams. They believe in educating the boys and giving them empowerment on the pitch so that they decide what action to take - so no shouting from the sidelines (parents and coaches).

I did not know that so many of our recent and current stars came from HV, such as Brebner, Caldwell, Riordan, O'Conner, Whitty, Thomson, Nish, Hanlon, Murray and Galbraith. Full list below:

http://hutchisonvale.intheteam.com/modules/page/Page.aspx?pc=1940&mid=21254&pmid=0

So well done HV.

[PaulSmith]

Really enjoyed listening to the Hutchison Vale piece on BBC Alba last night and did not know that there was tie up between Hibs and HV in the final year of Alex Miller's time at Hibs. They said this even meant the HV teams playing in the Hibs purple strip.

Also, I thought Tam spoke very well about HV's approach to coaching the boys teams. They believe in educating the boys and giving them empowerment on the pitch so that they decide what action to take - so no shouting from the sidelines (parents and coaches).

I did not know that so many of our recent and current stars came from HV, such as Brebner, Caldwell, Riordan, O'Conner, Whitty, Thomson, Nish, Hanlon, Murray and Galbraith. Full list below:

http://hutchisonvale.intheteam.com/modules/page/Page.aspx?pc=1940&mid=21254&pmid=0

So well done HV.

This is a thing of the past now as I'm not sure if everyone is aware that you no longer get Boys club teams like HV, Salveson, Tynecastle etc having Hibs or Hearts 'S' form players playing for them every Sunday.

Basically now all the SPL teams play against each other and are only coached by coaches from the SPL clubs, the standard of player now playing boys club football has obviously fallen but the pro of the initiative is that the cream of the top have access to the best facilities and coaches week in and week out.

[hibbie02]

Really enjoyed listening to the Hutchison Vale piece on BBC Alba last night and did not know that there was tie up between Hibs and HV in the final year of Alex Miller's time at Hibs. They said this even meant the HV teams playing in the Hibs purple strip.

Also, I thought Tam spoke very well about HV's approach to coaching the boys teams. They believe in educating the boys and giving them empowerment on the pitch so that they decide what action to take - so no shouting from the sidelines (parents and coaches).

I did not know that so many of our recent and current stars came from HV, such as Brebner, Caldwell, Riordan, O'Conner, Whitty, Thomson, Nish, Hanlon, Murray and Galbraith. Full list below:

http://hutchisonvale.intheteam.com/modules/page/Page.aspx?pc=1940&mid=21254&pmid=0

So well done HV.

Thought it was a good piece and they cam across well. A stunning array of talent have come from there and they deserve all due credit. :top marks

[Hibby Bairn]

But what everyone forgets is that all the players need to start somewhere and that is either school or boys' club football. It is from that pool that the pro clubs some sniffing.....unfortunately for the wee ones.

[Hibby Bairn]

Thought it was a good piece and they cam across well. A stunning array of talent have come from there and they deserve all due credit. :top marks

Or do the better players get taken by dad to the bigger' well known clubs? Or maybe it is just a cut and throat 'numbers' game. I think we all know it is a combination of these factors and nothing much to do with HV and others coaching capabilities.

[madgoalie87]

Garry oconor came from salveson not hutchie vale, getin far too much credit imo, I remembr they had a tie up with coventry too, also remember they got kickd out the gothenberg tourny for playin overaged players. 2 sides to every story and all that.

[blackpoolhibs]

Is this programme repeated again?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Is this programme repeated again?

430 this afternoon.

[blackpoolhibs]

430 this afternoon.

Cheers.:top marks

[lumbo_hfc]

Garry oconor came from salveson not hutchie vale, getin far too much credit imo, I remembr they had a tie up with coventry too, also remember they got kickd out the gothenberg tourny for playin overaged players. 2 sides to every story and all that.

How are they getting far too much credit? not enough credit if anything, there should be more teams that teach youngsters how to play the game the right way from a young age. they are easily the most succesful boys club in edinburgh and the fact they have produced so many professionals prooves how good the coaching there actually is!

[sunshine1875]

Garry oconor came from salveson not hutchie vale, getin far too much credit imo, I remembr they had a tie up with coventry too, also remember they got kickd out the gothenberg tourny for playin overaged players. 2 sides to every story and all that.

FFS:grr: why do people always have to drag up negatives.

Well done Salvie if you did unearth GOC. I am sure that Salvie, Edinburgh City, Spartans and all the other boys teams have similar motivated and unpaid coaches. I would certainly not knock any of them.

My OP was not to praise one over the other. I just thought that the HV Alba piece was worthy of praise on Hibs.net particularly as a few Hibs players have come from that route.

[Frazerbob]

I wonder how many of those players mentioned started out at Hutchie and how many moved there from other clubs?

Credit to ALL who give up their time to run these boys club. I've done it and it's not easy and takes up a lot of your time. Too many people in the press are quick to blame these people for the state of the game in Scotland.

[CropleyWasGod]

Garry oconor came from salveson not hutchie vale, getin far too much credit imo, I remembr they had a tie up with coventry too, also remember they got kickd out the gothenberg tourny for playin overaged players. 2 sides to every story and all that.

He did play for Hutchie, as well as Granton.

[ano hibby]

Id like see that - at what point of the program was it.. before, half time or end of the match..?
Ta

I flicked over and saw the Grant Stott interview which was also quite good.

[ano hibby]

He did play for Hutchie, as well as Granton.

Not really sure of GOCs background but when he got his big transfer away to Russia, Salvie got a cut..think it was 10/15k. GOC also came down to Salvie for pics at the time as i think he sponsored one of the teams, U-14/U-15 i think it was..bought them tracksuits with his name on it etc..

[greenlex]

Id like see that - at what point of the program was it.. before, half time or end of the match..?
Ta

I flicked over and saw the Grant Stott interview which was also quite good.
Half time just before Stotty.

[jodjam]

JC and Eddie May were in same HV side. My mate played up front and scored a few being set up by the pair of them.

[DirtyDeeds]

Hutchie indeed had a link with Hibs and later Coventry, which was during my time there, still have a couple of Coventry freebies lying around my flat!! Thats the link to Kevin Thomson spending a year down there before coming back up the road.

Hutchie went to the Gothia Cup in Gothenburg, Sweden a number of times. This was previously regarded as the unofficial World Cup for youth teams, the calibre of teams that took part was stunning and some incredibly famous players have played there. Hutchie won the tournament a number of teams and are the most successful UK side in its history. There was, however, the infamous occasion where Hutchie fielded players at incorrect age groups to gain an advantage, leading to expulsion from the competition and all coaches involved being banned by the SFA. This was when my dad decided to pull me out of the club, not the environment he wanted me in. One year, a young guy called Smart i believe was named player of the tournament at his age group, pretty stunning accolade for a 14/15 year old.

Many people dislike Hutchie for the way the managed to pick up everyone elses best players, but theres no doubt they developed players impressively, and deserve all recognition that comes their way.

[Gregor]

I think the point that was trying to be put across was that HV was the stepping stone from Boys Clubs to S-Form or moving onto a professional club. Even JC raised this when stating that he never regreted moving to HV from Gala as it made all the difference to him joining the Hibs ; same for KT moving from Peebles. I seem to remember Darren Fletcher also turned out in a few games for HV to put him in the shop window.

The relationship between Hibs and HV ended when Jim Duffy came along and severed links ; in turn taking up the Celtic BC and renaming them Hibs BC - Gordon Strachan was straight in there, linking up Coventry City with HV in the same manner that BF (with Parkie) did in his final year at ER.

Things are a bit different now and this is why HV could struggle ; players who show promise are now already affiliated with professional clubs as well as the boys clubs. The guys at Hibs now are benefiting from Yogi's very astute views on professional development and sports science ; they are spending a long time working on fitness and the academic understanding of how they are responsible for their bodies thanks to strong relationship with the very clever people in the Sports Studies dept at Telford (invoked by Mixu) ; much in the same way as he did with Falkirk 1st team and Stirling Uni.

Give them a couple of years and our youth product (current U19s and below) we'll be light years ahead of the rest of the country.

[CropleyWasGod]

Not really sure of GOCs background but when he got his big transfer away to Russia, Salvie got a cut..think it was 10/15k. GOC also came down to Salvie for pics at the time as i think he sponsored one of the teams, U-14/U-15 i think it was..bought them tracksuits with his name on it etc..

Not denying the Salvie thing. My boy played against him when he was there and at Granton. I was replying to the earlier poster who implied he hadn't played for Hutchie.

[Hibby Bairn]

I think the point that was trying to be put across was that HV was the stepping stone from Boys Clubs to S-Form or moving onto a professional club. Even JC raised this when stating that he never regreted moving to HV from Gala as it made all the difference to him joining the Hibs ; same for KT moving from Peebles. I seem to remember Darren Fletcher also turned out in a few games for HV to put him in the shop window.

The relationship between Hibs and HV ended when Jim Duffy came along and severed links ; in turn taking up the Celtic BC and renaming them Hibs BC - Gordon Strachan was straight in there, linking up Coventry City with HV in the same manner that BF (with Parkie) did in his final year at ER.

Things are a bit different now and this is why HV could struggle ; players who show promise are now already affiliated with professional clubs as well as the boys clubs. The guys at Hibs now are benefiting from Yogi's very astute views on professional development and sports science ; they are spending a long time working on fitness and the academic understanding of how they are responsible for their bodies thanks to strong relationship with the very clever people in the Sports Studies dept at Telford (invoked by Mixu) ; much in the same way as he did with Falkirk 1st team and Stirling Uni.

Give them a couple of years and our youth product (current U19s and below) we'll be light years ahead of the rest of the country.

Agree with all of this. The "niche" that the schools and boys' clubs now fill is for boys from age of 5 to about 10 or 11 when they can introduce them, nurture and provide a platform that the pro clubs will never provide.

A few still "come through" after this but it is largely recreational football for the masses that are not quite good enough - which is also a hugely important role that never gets recognised by government.

The scouts at top clubs know that the better players (mostly) gravitate towards the bigger boys' clubs and therefore it is there that they start their search for the talent pool at the younger ages.

Whether you agree with that is another matter. Either way there is a clear argument to be made for the SPL and SFA to be providing proper funding for clubs working at the "nursery" end. Rather than them scrambling about each week for money to provide venues for coaching.

[madgoalie87]

Not denying the Salvie thing. My boy played against him when he was there and at Granton. I was replying to the earlier poster who implied he hadn't played for Hutchie.

I never said he never playd for hutchie I said he never came(signd) from hutchie. The thread I thot was about players signing s forms when at hutchie.

[duffers]

I won the scottish cup at 13's with Hutchie, most of the players we had in that team started of with hutchie from the age of 4. A couple of the players are now begining to make their breakthrough with senior clubs.

Better players come to hutchie / Leith / Tynecastle etc as they are playing in the best leagues in Scotland with the best players, this is what will make the players better, and thats wheir the scouts will look for players they believe can make it further in the game.

I now run a u7's team with Hutchie, we have around 18 laddies who are all of a very high standard, so it is unfair to say we arn't producing any young talent ourselfs.If you look on the above website you will see some of the players which have now made it senior, started their career early with hutchieand some have had 5 year service awards.

[sleeping giant]

Not really sure of GOCs background but when he got his big transfer away to Russia, Salvie got a cut..think it was 10/15k. GOC also came down to Salvie for pics at the time as i think he sponsored one of the teams, U-14/U-15 i think it was..bought them tracksuits with his name on it etc..

Nice one :agree:

Do any other players do this ?

[Cropley10]

I won the scottish cup at 13's with Hutchie, most of the players we had in that team started of with hutchie from the age of 4. A couple of the players are now begining to make their breakthrough with senior clubs.

Better players come to hutchie / Leith / Tynecastle etc as they are playing in the best leagues in Scotland with the best players, this is what will make the players better, and thats wheir the scouts will look for players they believe can make it further in the game.

I now run a u7's team with Hutchie, we have around 18 laddies who are all of a very high standard, so it is unfair to say we arn't producing any young talent ourselfs.If you look on the above website you will see some of the players which have now made it senior, started their career early with hutchieand some have had 5 year service awards.

Interesting. How do you manage to find 18 bright laddies of a high standard who are 6? Is it by 'passing' on the ones who don't fit the criteria?

I agree with you that there are plenty of talented boys playing 7 a side at Boys Clubs, but I cannot understand how they can go from 4.9m x 1.8m goals at U12 (Primary 7) to FULL size goals and FULL size pitches with 11 players at U13 (S1). It makes no sense and simply favours 'bigger' more physically developed boys. In Holland they play 9 a side until U16 on 3/4 size pitches...

Apologies for thread hijack:greengrin

[Hibby Bairn]

Interesting. How do you manage to find 18 bright laddies of a high standard who are 6? Is it by 'passing' on the ones who don't fit the criteria?


Correct. These players haven't been produced by anyone. They get taken to HV and others because they are good. And in the next few years there is a gradual filtering through numbers to arrive at the best 11 at U13. Very little'production' goes on unless we are to believe HV has a team of super coaches.

[duffers]

Interesting. How do you manage to find 18 bright laddies of a high standard who are 6? Is it by 'passing' on the ones who don't fit the criteria?


These laddies have been here since the age of 3. This gives them a head start by starting their career early.Yeah some players are better than others but at that age, playing with your team twice a week, your going to progress massivly during the season. If you go down to Saughton on a sunday morning, youl see how so many youngsters are doing well for their age!! Not just Hutchie.

[andyhibs]

Nice one :agree:

Do any other players do this ?
plooky gordon gave a massive amount if i recall to the tynecastle club after his move to sunderland:top marks

[Hibby Bairn]

plooky gordon gave a massive amount if i recall to the tynecastle club after his move to sunderland:top marks

I think it was about £50k that Tynecastle got but that was a legal requirement as opposed to a voluntary payment by Gordon.

Be good if there was a % of all annual transfers or contract values that went into a pot and was distributed throughout grassroots football. Keep fertilising the field, feeding the golden goose. etc :greengrin

[andyhibs]

I think it was about £50k that Tynecastle got but that was a legal requirement as opposed to a voluntary payment by Gordon.

Be good if there was a % of all annual transfers or contract values that went into a pot and was distributed throughout grassroots football. Keep fertilising the field, feeding the golden goose. etc :greengrin
thought a great gesture by him:top marksto acknowledge his grass roots and yes it was a legal requirement as he and his agent had written it in his contract if he had moved on:wink:

[Calvin]

I agree with you that there are plenty of talented boys playing 7 a side at Boys Clubs, but I cannot understand how they can go from 4.9m x 1.8m goals at U12 (Primary 7) to FULL size goals and FULL size pitches with 11 players at U13 (S1). It makes no sense and simply favours 'bigger' more physically developed boys. In Holland they play 9 a side until U16 on 3/4 size pitches..

:agree:

I played every Saturday for 4 years at 7 a side, then went up to 11s and played about 4 games before retiring from football. Was far too slight to be playing against massive centre halves whereas in 7s there were usually two or three defenders allowing you to find space and be a bit more delicate in your play.

[stevensons-fan]

My little brother plays for HV U11s and he loves it! :thumbsup:

[PaulSmith]

thought a great gesture by him:top marksto acknowledge his grass roots and yes it was a legal requirement as he and his agent had written it in his contract if he had moved on:wink:

I'm sure you'll find that it's actually a UEFA/FIFA requirement rather than anything that Gordon or his agent done of their own back.

The figure I was told was nearer £120k.

edit below.

http://www.tynecastlefc.co.uk/modules/news/News.aspx?NewsId=155880&page=0&sortField=Entered&sortOrder=DESC&itemCount=20

[andyhibs]

I'm sure you'll find that it's actually a UEFA/FIFA requirement rather than anything that Gordon or his agent done of their own back.

The figure I was told was nearer £120k.

edit below.

http://www.tynecastlefc.co.uk/modules/news/News.aspx?NewsId=155880&page=0&sortField=Entered&sortOrder=DESC&itemCount=20
stand corrected, have not heard of anyone else donating money to grass roots football on moving though:confused:

[Hibby Bairn]

Also why Tam Smith and others are trying to persuade mums and dads to wait until 12 until their wee ones switch away from HV.

Be even better if the age was lowered to say 10 and it was ALL fees and not just cross border. What a boost for grassroots football.

Could the SPL and SFA not set this up for within Scotland? Or does that deprive the teams at the top with all of the cream. Blinkered if that was the attitude.

Fletcher for example must have started playing football somewhere other than hibs.

[Love the Green]

Hutchie Vale...............bully boys..just like the old firm..pilaging lesser clubs who take time to give young boys astart in the game and coach them no matter their ability......HV only take the cream and nas soon as young boy signs for them thay are already looking for someone better...
I know a guy whose son was there for 2/3 seasons u10 to u12 who won medals but strted about 5 games in this time..how is that helping to develop young boys.....mind you most of the boys move cause their fathers try to live their failed soccer lif thro their sons...pathetic...

"keep the faith":wink:

[Cropley10]

Hutchie Vale...............bully boys..just like the old firm..pilaging lesser clubs who take time to give young boys astart in the game and coach them no matter their ability......HV only take the cream and nas soon as young boy signs for them thay are already looking for someone better...
I know a guy whose son was there for 2/3 seasons u10 to u12 who won medals but strted about 5 games in this time..how is that helping to develop young boys.....mind you most of the boys move cause their fathers try to live their failed soccer lif thro their sons...pathetic...

"keep the faith":wink:

i don't understand, how did he only play 5 games during this time??:confused:

Are you saying he trained every week and didn't get picked. If so, what's the point in that? Every kid wants to play surely...?

[Scotthibs1875]

All they do is take teams best players, yeah that is great like.
Okay they try to good football but all they are intrested is winning and if they aren't doing well then they go taking more players. Unbelievable:bitchy:

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Interesting. How do you manage to find 18 bright laddies of a high standard who are 6? Is it by 'passing' on the ones who don't fit the criteria?

I agree with you that there are plenty of talented boys playing 7 a side at Boys Clubs, but I cannot understand how they can go from 4.9m x 1.8m goals at U12 (Primary 7) to FULL size goals and FULL size pitches with 11 players at U13 (S1). It makes no sense and simply favours 'bigger' more physically developed boys. In Holland they play 9 a side until U16 on 3/4 size pitches...

Apologies for thread hijack:greengrin

Completely agree. Switching to full size pitches halfway through the U12 season's way too early. I can understand there would be an issue providing space at some facilities for a dedicated 9's pitch but you could still use the 7's goals at the edge of the 18yd box.

[mim]

Hibs players signed directly from HV:

BANNERMAN Scott
COLLINS John
DODS Darren
FELLINGER Dave
HARPER Kevin
HUTCHINSON Bobby
LENNON Danny
MILLER Greg
MILLER Kenny
PATON Eric
RAYNES Steve
REID Chris
RENWICK Michael
RILEY Paul
RIORDAN Derek
TWEED Steven
WHITTAKER Steven
YOUNGER Tommy

Not a bad bunch, eh? :wink:

[Brizo]

I dont know what the situations like nowadays but years back HV were one of a couple of teams who hoovered up all the best young players from miles around which lessened all the competition and gave them a monopoly on winning the leagues and Cups. Comparisons with the OF arent too adrift .... also as they had the habit of signing laddies from other clubs to weaken the oppostion and then leaving them on the bench. You cant argue with HVs role of honour but ive seen enough of how they used to operate not to join the love in.

As for the general state of youth fitba I dont know if its still the same but the pro clubs including Hibs wouldnt allow laddies as young as 10 and 11 to play with their pals in the school or local boys club teams. Imo it ruined what at that age should have been a pressure free , fun and social activity. When the vast bulk of those laddies were unceremoniously binned a couple of years later the experience had put a lot of them off the game for good.

[sadtom]

Hutchy have always had a bit of a rep for poaching other clubs players. Now may of the boys who are released from the pro youth initiative are being 'placed' with the usual well known clubs like Hutchy, Tynie, Edina etc.
This means that while maybe some lads have been trying their luck with the pro clubs other kids who have been playing for hutchy suddenly get emptied for the lads 'returning' or being 'placed' by the pro initiative.

Spoke to a few parents who have been less than happy about the ruthless nature of the hutchy 'factory'. They will butter up the parents/kids to get them to sign then if they suddenly find someone , even marginally better, the original kid is dumped with barely a backward glance. With that approach its no wonder they are succesful. This is a symptom of the must win mentality that ruins the game in scotland.
I think it would be better that they develop the lads as much as they can and if it means being succesful then so be it. (obviously some wont progress enough to be able to even compete at that standard and i understand the clubs want to do well but when the differences are marginal it seems very clinical and cruel). Acting like some professional club that 'cherry picks' from other clubs often at their own long standing kids expense, in order to fill the trophy cabinate, is plain wrong in my eyes.

Anyway my lads play for Mussy windsor U10 and they had a good win against hutchy this morning.:greengrin
Next year at U11 is when the pro youth initiative sides 'commit' to the kids, meaning they are no longer allowed to play youth club football. This will prevent a lot of the other talented kids who have not been taken on by the pro clubs (who usually have a squad of about 20 odd players) from playing against and with the kids who have been 'taken'. 2 maybe 3 of my lads teammates will be 'comitted' next year, most of the well known clubs will lose a couple of players.
Generically i dont think this will be good for the long term future of football in Scotland. Kids grow and develop at a different speed, preventing the ones who are just short of the pro clubs standard from playing against the ones who are deemed to be at that level will make it harder for the ones who fall just short from progressing IMHO.
Its understandable that the pro clubs will want to instill their 'values' on the kids but i dont see why they cant continue the system they use from U8 to U10. ie taking the boys for coaching, playing and developing them but still allowing them to play club and school football.
You could end up letting quite a few potential stars slipping through the net.
Some of the kids could be released by the pro youth clubs after a year or 2. I dont think its right that you could break a kids heart or completely ruin their confidence before they are 13!!
Some coaches have sugested to me that when they move to 11 a sides kids who look world beaters at 7's just cant cope with the change. They have also suggested that they new sytem is turning the pro clubs into glorified boys clubs. One coach even stated that he could 'guarantee' that of the 20 or so kids first commited at U11's they will be lucky if 2 remain by the time they are U16.

I'm all for the clubs helping the kids develop at an early age. However creating an 'elite' exclusive, tier structure at such an early age is counter productive IMHO.

Personally i would like to see the pro clubs engage more with the youth clubs, providing assistance and encouragement. By all means take the kids they like the look of under their wings and train and play them in their own set ups. However removing the kids who are excelling at U11 level from their comtemporaries who may not be far behind them is a foolish enterprise.

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

I dont know what the situations like nowadays but years back HV were one of a couple of teams who hoovered up all the best young players from miles around which lessened all the competition and gave them a monopoly on winning the leagues and Cups. Comparisons with the OF arent too adrift .... also as they had the habit of signing laddies from other clubs to weaken the oppostion and then leaving them on the bench. You cant argue with HVs role of honour but ive seen enough of how they used to operate not to join the love in.

As for the general state of youth fitba I dont know if its still the same but the pro clubs including Hibs wouldnt allow laddies as young as 10 and 11 to play with their pals in the school or local boys club teams. Imo it ruined what at that age should have been a pressure free , fun and social activity. When the vast bulk of those laddies were unceremoniously binned a couple of years later the experience had put a lot of them off the game for good.

It might be a generalisation but Hutchy seemed to hoover up all the big laddies as well.

The rule was that signed players couldn't play for their schools, but Hibs were/are? a bit more lenient than most:wink:

It is ludicrous to stop kids at that age playing fitba.

[fatbloke]

Hutchie Vale...............bully boys..just like the old firm..pilaging lesser clubs who take time to give young boys astart in the game and coach them no matter their ability......HV only take the cream and nas soon as young boy signs for them thay are already looking for someone better...
I know a guy whose son was there for 2/3 seasons u10 to u12 who won medals but strted about 5 games in this time..how is that helping to develop young boys.....mind you most of the boys move cause their fathers try to live their failed soccer lif thro their sons...pathetic...

"keep the faith":wink:

Absolutely correct, through family experience know of a family member and others who were signed to HV who had no intention of playing them but their signing was designed to weaken others. HV Had some coaches in the past that I would not have wanted within a million miles of my son - in a football sense.

[BSEJVT]

Thank goodness a few folk have pitched in to the debate to set folk right about HV's blatant poaching of other clubs players.

Exactly the same as the OF in my view.

Sign anyone who was a threat and then plonk them on the bench / sidelines when something better came along.

Taking that anology further and using Cltc FC's poaching of Hibs players as an example, I can promise you that for every "John Collins" produced by HV there are 10 "Derek Riordan's", whose career stalled and stagnated there.

Unfortunately not nearly all of whom returned to other teams and blossomed.

It also stands to reason that if you work with better raw materials you will produce better quality goods more often than someone working with poorer raw materials.

Its no accident that the boys playing for other clubs, some of whom have been through the meat grinder, hate HV with a vengance and love nothing better than beating them.

As for Saint Tam, dont get me started, IMO a ruthless arrogant blaw bag more interested in reflected personal glory than with any sense of compassion or real interest in boys other than the "John Collins" of this world who can enhance his overblown reputation.

Take them in, spit them out and either let them be lost to the game or let other teams pick up the pieces should be the HV motto.

[James Connolly]

Hutchie were the juvenile version of Dundee Utd in my time; I happily played for Edina at U12 & U13 until Gordon Neilly (sp) asked me along to Hutchie; in my eyes it was a no brainer, but I was wrong! I left after only one season, totally disallusioned with football; realising that the mighty Hutchie Vale signed all the half decent players in Edinburgh, only to be left with a squad of 30 odd young boys, most of whom never got a game.

In the season I was there, I played 7 or 8 games; at 14 all I wanted to do was play football, this was not the case at HV, unless you were thought of as a special player.

I really wish I'd stayed at Edina; at least there you were all treated fairly.

[Mickey Edwards]

I dont know what the situations like nowadays but years back HV were one of a couple of teams who hoovered up all the best young players from miles around which lessened all the competition and gave them a monopoly on winning the leagues and Cups. Comparisons with the OF arent too adrift .... also as they had the habit of signing laddies from other clubs to weaken the oppostion and then leaving them on the bench. You cant argue with HVs role of honour but ive seen enough of how they used to operate not to join the love in.

As for the general state of youth fitba I dont know if its still the same but the pro clubs including Hibs wouldnt allow laddies as young as 10 and 11 to play with their pals in the school or local boys club teams. Imo it ruined what at that age should have been a pressure free , fun and social activity. When the vast bulk of those laddies were unceremoniously binned a couple of years later the experience had put a lot of them off the game for good.


Bang on

In my day not a force for improving football, often a whole team on the sidelines not stripped....waste.

Played rt mid for Edina vs JC on their left a fair few times ; now THAT was an education {?humiliation}

Met JC and told him I used to play against him ; was gonna pretend it was PSG or Marseilles but couldn't keep a straight face long enough...thing is , a guy who bossed games at Wembley and Old Trafford could remember the ****tiest wee games at Seafield etc :not worth

[Hibby Bairn]

Hutchie were the juvenile version of Dundee Utd in my time; I happily played for Edina at U12 & U13 until Gordon Neilly (sp) asked me along to Hutchie; in my eyes it was a no brainer, but I was wrong! I left after only one season, totally disallusioned with football; realising that the mighty Hutchie Vale signed all the half decent players in Edinburgh, only to be left with a squad of 30 odd young boys, most of whom never got a game.

In the season I was there, I played 7 or 8 games; at 14 all I wanted to do was play football, this was not the case at HV, unless you were thought of as a special player.

I really wish I'd stayed at Edina; at least there you were all treated fairly.

Ditto but at U12 juvenile. Now aged 42. Stopped playing football for 13 years from 13 to 26 because of it.

[James Connolly]

Ditto but at U12 juvenile. Now aged 42. Stopped playing football for 13 years from 13 to 26 because of it.

I was the same, tried a comeback in the Maybury League at 27; slow as a week in the jail, but could tackle...well sort of!:greengrin

[Storar]

Scoring against Hutchie at under 10's was the best moment of my life:greengrin

[Hibby Bairn]

Scoring against Hutchie at under 10's was the best moment of my life:greengrin

How old were you? :wink:

[Storar]

How old were you? :wink:

17:wink:

[jakki]

My grandson was "signed " up to Man U at the age of 6 on the recommendation of his Health Visitor.My Son in law was delighted and spent a fortune travelling thoughout Manchester and Cheshire for training and games. Last year after 10 years and being offered a contract with Man U , he declined. He didn't want to play football again.

So much so , he didn't even want to go to the BoltonvHibs match that I had bought him a ticket for and my other grandson provided a replacement.

He is so now against football, he wants to get into the English Basketball team for the 2012 Olymipics, but if he does manage this I will remind him that he was born in St Johns, Livi and he is really a Scotsman :thumbsup:

[sauzee]

Hutchie indeed had a link with Hibs and later Coventry, which was during my time there, still have a couple of Coventry freebies lying around my flat!! Thats the link to Kevin Thomson spending a year down there before coming back up the road.

Hutchie went to the Gothia Cup in Gothenburg, Sweden a number of times. This was previously regarded as the unofficial World Cup for youth teams, the calibre of teams that took part was stunning and some incredibly famous players have played there. Hutchie won the tournament a number of teams and are the most successful UK side in its history. There was, however, the infamous occasion where Hutchie fielded players at incorrect age groups to gain an advantage, leading to expulsion from the competition and all coaches involved being banned by the SFA. This was when my dad decided to pull me out of the club, not the environment he wanted me in. One year, a young guy called Smart i believe was named player of the tournament at his age group, pretty stunning accolade for a 14/15 year old.

Many people dislike Hutchie for the way the managed to pick up everyone elses best players, but theres no doubt they developed players impressively, and deserve all recognition that comes their way.


it wasn't just a case of fielding overage players,travel documents were altered,which left all the boys involved with no valid travel insurance,tam smith,the club leader was in on it all, and covered his own back,in the aftermath the coaches involved,left the club and moved to royston boys club,i know 2 are at tynecastle,the lot should have been banned for life,but only a few were made scapegoats

[blackpoolhibs]

it wasn't just a case of fielding overage players,travel documents were altered,which left all the boys involved with no valid travel insurance,tam smith,the club leader was in on it all, and covered his own back,in the aftermath the coaches involved,left the club and moved to royston boys club,i know 2 are at tynecastle,the lot should have been banned for life,but only a few were made scapegoats

Thats shocking, and looks to me if true, they were not in it for the good of the kids, but the glory for themselves.

[Steve-O]

Scoring against Hutchie at under 10's was the best moment of my life:greengrin

I scored against Allan McGregor in a 5-1 defeat back in the day! :agree:

[ano hibby]

Ive seen HV from both sides. Had 8 fantastic years there including a Gothia trip & also now my sons teams play against them on a fairly regular basis as well as having family members there.

Whilst i acknowledge the negatives noted above the majority of parents are fully aware of this when they take their kid along to HV - they know it is more cut throat, the standards are typically higher but many parents decide for their own reasons to live with this in the hope their child gets a better foootballing education, gets involved in a winning team etc.

As for kids getting left on the touchline when they go U-13 & its competitive leagues etc - its the same for every team IMO not just HV. The reason my sons dont play at HV when i played there is they probably wouldnt start games every week and thats far important for me than being part of the HV thing. But as far as im aware there are plenty parents of kids at tynie, salvie, edina etc who are not happy as their kids dont get a game so this is not a problem exclusive to HV IMO.

Ive seen a range of HV teams play at differant age groups over the last 5/6 years and by some distance, IMO, the quality of football they play is consistently better than most of the other teams. Sure at each age group there is usually 1/2 other teams who are their equal but not as consistently as HV.

I do agree with the point made that taking kids at age 10/11 into the pro teams is sad for many kids as they cant play with their pals at school etc. However many parents who put their kids into these programs do it because the standard of facilities and coaching is better than the average at many of the local clubs even if it means they only get 6 months or a year out of it. If a kid comes out of the program after a year and gives up as he feels rejected surely the parent takes some responsibility for setting too high an expectation of what could happen, again IMHO.

[greenlex]

Hutchie were the juvenile version of Dundee Utd in my time; I happily played for Edina at U12 & U13 until Gordon Neilly (sp) asked me along to Hutchie; in my eyes it was a no brainer, but I was wrong! I left after only one season, totally disallusioned with football; realising that the mighty Hutchie Vale signed all the half decent players in Edinburgh, only to be left with a squad of 30 odd young boys, most of whom never got a game.

In the season I was there, I played 7 or 8 games; at 14 all I wanted to do was play football, this was not the case at HV, unless you were thought of as a special player.

I really wish I'd stayed at Edina; at least there you were all treated fairly.
The same Gordon Neilly did the same to me. It was with Edina Hibs though probably around 6 or 7 years earlier. After a year with Neilly at Edina I left. I had actually signed for the follwing year but didnt actually start that season but went out to Easthouses instead. Five games into that season Easthouses played Edina. The week before they were due to play I was banned for 6 months for "signing" for two clubs. double whammied by Neilly two seasons wasted. 15 years old FFS and hadnt even trained with Edina that season. Totally hacked off and drifted out the game for a further year until playing under 21's at the age of 17.

[oxymoron]

Garry oconor came from salveson not hutchie vale, getin far too much credit imo, I remembr they had a tie up with coventry too, also remember they got kickd out the gothenberg tourny for playin overaged players. 2 sides to every story and all that.

They did indeed! I was there - shocking cheating, including falsifying papers of young lads for the trip (on group passports in those days) which may have invalidated thier travel insurance.
To be fair on Tam, he didnt get involved in the Gothenberg trips, and when this came out he was as shocked as the rest of us and co-operated fully with the investigation and subsequent banning of coaches who had perpetrated this. Not a good time for him, or the credibility of the boys club. Fortunately, the tie-up at that time was a loose one with Coventry and Hibs were not involved in any of this.

[oxymoron]

it wasn't just a case of fielding overage players,travel documents were altered,which left all the boys involved with no valid travel insurance,tam smith,the club leader was in on it all, and covered his own back,in the aftermath the coaches involved,left the club and moved to royston boys club,i know 2 are at tynecastle,the lot should have been banned for life,but only a few were made scapegoats

...Just caught this bit. I seuggested in my last post that Tam wasnt involved. This seems to contradict that. I may be wrong, and if I am I stand corrected, but it was my recollection that Tam hadnt been involved in the trips at all, and nothing in the aftermath suggested that he had been involved or condoned the behaviour. My only evidence for that is that in the subsequent mud-slinging and frankly threats which emerged from those who were involved, none seemed to suggest that Tam was involved but accused him of not backing thir innocence. 'Sauzee' is correct that a few were scapegoated whilst others avoided it all and re-emerged at Royston. Some folk have no shame. My son travelled abroad and played football without valid travel insurance. I could say a lot more but dont want to identify myself.

[duffers]

Ive seen HV from both sides. Had 8 fantastic years there including a Gothia trip & also now my sons teams play against them on a fairly regular basis as well as having family members there.

Whilst i acknowledge the negatives noted above the majority of parents are fully aware of this when they take their kid along to HV - they know it is more cut throat, the standards are typically higher but many parents decide for their own reasons to live with this in the hope their child gets a better foootballing education, gets involved in a winning team etc.

As for kids getting left on the touchline when they go U-13 & its competitive leagues etc - its the same for every team IMO not just HV. The reason my sons dont play at HV when i played there is they probably wouldnt start games every week and thats far important for me than being part of the HV thing. But as far as im aware there are plenty parents of kids at tynie, salvie, edina etc who are not happy as their kids dont get a game so this is not a problem exclusive to HV IMO.

Ive seen a range of HV teams play at differant age groups over the last 5/6 years and by some distance, IMO, the quality of football they play is consistently better than most of the other teams. Sure at each age group there is usually 1/2 other teams who are their equal but not as consistently as HV.

I do agree with the point made that taking kids at age 10/11 into the pro teams is sad for many kids as they cant play with their pals at school etc. However many parents who put their kids into these programs do it because the standard of facilities and coaching is better than the average at many of the local clubs even if it means they only get 6 months or a year out of it. If a kid comes out of the program after a year and gives up as he feels rejected surely the parent takes some responsibility for setting too high an expectation of what could happen, again IMHO.

:top marks

[Danderhall Hibs]

My grandson was "signed " up to Man U at the age of 6 on the recommendation of his Health Visitor

A health visitor doubling up as a Man Utd scout?! Why was he/she still visiting anyway? I’m pretty sure we saw ours a couple of times after the birth and that was it - the boxes ticked and on to the next one!



He is so now against football, he wants to get into the English Basketball team for the 2012 Olymipics, but if he does manage this I will remind him that he was born in St Johns, Livi and he is really a Scotsman :thumbsup:

No need – it’ll be the British team he’ll be trialling for.

[Allant1981]

Do HV still play at the teacher training college? i played for Tall oaks years ago and when we played them im pretty sure it was down that way. The pitches were pretty good and the teams we played against were always miles better than us

[Love the Green]

Was involved with tall oaks about 1992 gubbed Hutchie 4-2 at their place oln vic loco park at carrick knowe golf course within 2 week they had poached our captain............dont like it up them :top marks
we had a very good team including mickey stewart
"keep the faith"

[sauzee]

...Just caught this bit. I seuggested in my last post that Tam wasnt involved. This seems to contradict that. I may be wrong, and if I am I stand corrected, but it was my recollection that Tam hadnt been involved in the trips at all, and nothing in the aftermath suggested that he had been involved or condoned the behaviour. My only evidence for that is that in the subsequent mud-slinging and frankly threats which emerged from those who were involved, none seemed to suggest that Tam was involved but accused him of not backing thir innocence. 'Sauzee' is correct that a few were scapegoated whilst others avoided it all and re-emerged at Royston. Some folk have no shame. My son travelled abroad and played football without valid travel insurance. I could say a lot more but dont want to identify myself.


i know tam smith was involved based on two fact,if anyone knows tam,they know that nothing and i mean nothing goes on at any age group at hutchie,that he doesn't know about,secondly i'm sure he has to counter sign all documents,his full time club leader and is on a full time healthy wage,but then again the team photos were a bit of a give away !

[hibbill2002]

Was involved with tall oaks about 1992 gubbed Hutchie 4-2 at their place oln vic loco park at carrick knowe golf course within 2 week they had poached our captain............dont like it up them :top marks
we had a very good team including mickey stewart
"keep the faith"
we beat them and tynie and won the league in i think 1992,
mikey stewart played in our team ,Liberton
i think your mibbes meaning 91.
and as another poster has stated above, tam smith knew everything that went on, he just managed to make the authorities think he didnae:rolleyes:

[ap_mccoy]

hutchie vale are finished these days.

leith athletic have only been going 13 years but are the most successful club in edinburgh over the past 10 years.

heres afew of the top of my head that leith have produced...

marco pelosi (hearts)
darren mcgregor (cowdenbeath)
paul currie (berwick)
danny swanson (dundee utd)
steven radzinski (berwick)
leigh griffiths (dundee)
blair thomlie (celtic)
jordan cropley (hibs)
lee currie (hibs)
sean welsh (hibs)
john grant (alloa)

[SmithyHibee]

Hutchie seem to be getting worse. I play under-19's now and they are no force in the first division and are struggling in cups against second division sides. When I was younger aye, loads of laddies who played half decent or scored against them swiftly moved to them, but now it seems much different. Tynie and Salvesen are supposedly the two teams at the younger age groups now.

Edinburgh United 19's last 16 of Scottish Cup! :thumbsup:

[1875 NO 1]

The same Gordon Neilly did the same to me. It was with Edina Hibs though probably around 6 or 7 years earlier. After a year with Neilly at Edina I left. I had actually signed for the follwing year but didnt actually start that season but went out to Easthouses instead. Five games into that season Easthouses played Edina. The week before they were due to play I was banned for 6 months for "signing" for two clubs. double whammied by Neilly two seasons wasted. 15 years old FFS and hadnt even trained with Edina that season. Totally hacked off and drifted out the game for a further year until playing under 21's at the age of 17.

Gordon Neilly - we gave him is chance to head up youth development.......he jumped ship very quickly to the huns

[Peevemor]

Gordon Neilly - we gave him is chance to head up youth development.......he jumped ship very quickly to the huns

I thought he came to us from Dundee Utd. :confused:

[greenlex]

Gordon Neilly - we gave him is chance to head up youth development.......he jumped ship very quickly to the huns
Never liked the Bassa. I could smell them even at 14 years of age. :greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

Does anyone remember Neilly at links boys club, or is my mind playing tricks?:confused:

[Love the Green]

we beat them and tynie and won the league in i think 1992,
mikey stewart played in our team ,Liberton
i think your mibbes meaning 91.
and as another poster has stated above, tam smith knew everything that went on, he just managed to make the authorities think he didnae:rolleyes:


Sorry maybe got the year wrong...but it would be the year Liberton boys club poached Mickey stewart and david mccole from tall oaks....their parents actually feigned their illness to save them being scottish cup tied..pathetic ..........

"keep the faith":devil:

[Raymond]

hutchie vale are finished these days.




Ah well i better start looking for another club for my boy then:confused:
Just to let you know his Hutchie Team managed to fluke a 5/6 goal winning margin against a Leith Athletic 1st team this Season:rolleyes:

[oxymoron]

i know tam smith was involved based on two fact,if anyone knows tam,they know that nothing and i mean nothing goes on at any age group at hutchie,that he doesn't know about,secondly i'm sure he has to counter sign all documents,his full time club leader and is on a full time healthy wage,but then again the team photos were a bit of a give away !

Hi Sauzee - You may well be right about your general contention - I may have been naive to think otherwise. The thing about the team photos though, if you mean the trip ones, is that they were done before the trip at an evening sponsors event which Tam attended. You could well be correct though about him knowing everything that went on. And there goes my one consoling thought that at least one person at that f£Ck1n club had some integrity at that point. ho hum...

[zelda]

I dinnae like Hutchie Vale at ma age group-Always a hard team to play against.