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View Full Version : Is it time for Yogi to get stuck into the players?



HFC 0-7
23-11-2009, 10:24 AM
Just reading some of the comments made by Yogi after the game and read this one in the Record http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/hibernian/2009/11/23/irish-hangover-affected-hibs-chances-claims-hughes-86908-21843117/ where he claims that Ireland losing out in the playoff to a handball has affected hibs.

I like Yogi, but I think he needs to say that the players just were not good enough on Saturday and not make weak excuses. He seems to protect certain players at times like Stokes and Riordan and slate others, rightly IMO, like Nish.

Thoughts?

Steve20
23-11-2009, 10:26 AM
I think so.

Although, I do actually believe that some of our players are just not as good as we think they are.

MacBean
23-11-2009, 10:33 AM
I think John Rankin needs to wake up and smell the coffee!

he is p*sh!

flash
23-11-2009, 11:03 AM
I think John Rankin needs to wake up and smell the coffee!

he is p*sh!

He is hardly the worst.

MacBean
23-11-2009, 11:14 AM
He is hardly the worst.


not the worst yeah, but he says in that report that he was disapointed not to start after the derby, yet he was only in due to injury, and i think Cregg is a bette player than he and should have came on for McBride rather than Rankin

Part/Time Supporter
23-11-2009, 11:27 AM
Rankin thinks he played well in the derby?

Okey-dokey.

:rolleyes:

--------
23-11-2009, 11:54 AM
I think the Irish contingent could well have been affected by the rumpus over the French game. Natural enough, especially since Stack, Miller and Stokes all had a more than decent chance of being in the squad next summer. hard for them not to be down, given the circumstances.

But Yogi should have focussed on that and sorted it with them before the game kicked off - not advanced it as an excuse afterwards.

However, if Yogi continues working with them the way he has been, I'm sure the team will win more than they lose.... :devil:

Phil D. Rolls
23-11-2009, 12:01 PM
Is it too early to bring Rod Petrie into this?

Hibbyradge
23-11-2009, 12:08 PM
Just reading some of the comments made by Yogi after the game and read this one in the Record http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/hibernian/2009/11/23/irish-hangover-affected-hibs-chances-claims-hughes-86908-21843117/ where he claims that Ireland losing out in the playoff to a handball has affected hibs.

I like Yogi, but I think he needs to say that the players just were not good enough on Saturday and not make weak excuses. He seems to protect certain players at times like Stokes and Riordan and slate others, rightly IMO, like Nish.

Thoughts?

Please explain to me the benefits of critisisng someone in public.

CorrieHibs
23-11-2009, 12:14 PM
Stokes was rubbish against hearts also so he can't blame it on the French game. I don't care about Ireland i want him playing well for hibs. I don't think he has been playing well recently. I do feel for him as i don't think he is match fit yet and i think he should be dropped for sat and have deek up front.

TheMentalHibees
23-11-2009, 12:17 PM
Think we have a couple of players resting on their laurels who need a wake up call. Stokes for example has been relatively gash on the whole, but hasn't been dropped. Benji has been similarly under-par, but he's starting every week. I am by no means a fan of Nish, but there are others in the squad who are just as deserving of a game or so on the bench.

HFC 0-7
23-11-2009, 12:24 PM
Please explain to me the benefits of critisisng someone in public.

I dont see a problem with highlighting the players that are not performing in public. If Yogi was to come out and say he is expecting more from Stokes etc, I dont see a problem with it.

You seem to have looked at this in a negative way, and look to pick faults in my reasoning. I never said Yogi should get stuck into them publicly by saying certain players are rubbish etc. I mean get stuck in by dropping players. I think Stokes could do with being dropped for example.

Phil D. Rolls
23-11-2009, 12:31 PM
What position are we in the league again? It's just that, if the players were as bad as people are suggesting, then we would surely be a lot lower down the table.

Or is it frustration that a couple of better performances could have seen us in an even stronger position? There do seem to be a lot of half empty glasses around here.

HFC 0-7
23-11-2009, 12:38 PM
What position are we in the league again? It's just that, if the players were as bad as people are suggesting, then we would surely be a lot lower down the table.

Or is it frustration that a couple of better performances could have seen us in an even stronger position? There do seem to be a lot of half empty glasses around here.


If you want your team to be the best they can then we shouldnt just brush bad performances under the carpet as they could haunt us come the end of the season. St Mirrens, Hamilton and St Johnstones are the games that we need to win if we want silverware or into europe. At times hibs look like they think alll they need to win is turn up. Hibs are already starting to get injuries, we have a lot of yellow cards already so suspensions will kick, we need every player playing well. I admit that there will be off days for every player, but there shouldnt be off days for the whole team. I am delighted we are third, but I want to stay there, and simply sitting back wont keep us there, Yogi needs to keep driving ahead making sure the team is playing well. I dont think it would be a very good manager to go into the dressing room and say it doesnt matter that we played terrible today as we are still high up the league and doing better than last season.

1875 NO 1
23-11-2009, 12:50 PM
Just reading some of the comments made by Yogi after the game and read this one in the Record http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/hibernian/2009/11/23/irish-hangover-affected-hibs-chances-claims-hughes-86908-21843117/ where he claims that Ireland losing out in the playoff to a handball has affected hibs.

I like Yogi, but I think he needs to say that the players just were not good enough on Saturday and not make weak excuses. He seems to protect certain players at times like Stokes and Riordan and slate others, rightly IMO, like Nish.

Thoughts?

That comment was up there with some of the rubbish that Mixu would come out with. Yogi shoudlbe having a word with himself:

Stokes isolated upfront on his own with Benji aboy 20 yards behind him. For me he doesnt look like he can play the lone striker role. Poor 1st touch and link up play.

After the preston game he said Hibs wouldnt get bullied again when he was the boss............we didnt cope very well with St Mirren's two big forwards and they werent shy in getting stuck into us in midfield. We didnt have anybody in there up for that battle. Similar story when we played St Johnstone and Hamilton

1875 NO 1
23-11-2009, 12:54 PM
What position are we in the league again? It's just that, if the players were as bad as people are suggesting, then we would surely be a lot lower down the table.

Or is it frustration that a couple of better performances could have seen us in an even stronger position? There do seem to be a lot of half empty glasses around here.

We havent had that many good performanes this season, our best ws probbaly against Dundee Utd but just coudl take our chances. I think our league position reflects on the poor standard of the SPL.

Its great to be 3rd but looking for better entertainment............ we dont create many chances and there is little goal mouth action. The difference between Yogi's Falkirk and Yogi's Hibs............ we've got Riordan who can come up with wonder goals

Hibbyradge
23-11-2009, 01:10 PM
I dont see a problem with highlighting the players that are not performing in public. If Yogi was to come out and say he is expecting more from Stokes etc, I dont see a problem with it.

You seem to have looked at this in a negative way, and look to pick faults in my reasoning. I never said Yogi should get stuck into them publicly by saying certain players are rubbish etc. I mean get stuck in by dropping players. I think Stokes could do with being dropped for example.

I was refering to your comment that
Just reading some of the comments made by Yogi after the game and read this one in the Record http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-21843117/ where he claims that Ireland losing out in the playoff to a handball has affected hibs.

I like Yogi, but I think he needs to say that the players just were not good enough on Saturday and not make weak excuses. He seems to protect certain players at times like Stokes and Riordan and slate others, rightly IMO, like Nish.

Thoughts?

That suggests critisisng them in public to me, not dropping them.

You may not have a problem with that, but I was trying to find out what you thought the benefits of doing it would be.

IWasThere2016
23-11-2009, 01:12 PM
We havent had that many good performanes this season, our best ws probbaly against Dundee Utd but just coudl take our chances. I think our league position reflects on the poor standard of the SPL.

Its great to be 3rd but looking for better entertainment............ we dont create many chances and there is little goal mouth action. The difference between Yogi's Falkirk and Yogi's Hibs............ we've got Riordan who can come up with wonder goals

:agree: Seems that way to me too

Speedway
23-11-2009, 01:15 PM
Please explain to me the benefits of critisisng someone in public.

It lets the player know they're in trouble and it reassures the fans that you've seen what they've seen and are dealing with it. This convinces said fans to carry on paying their money and thus funding the replacement of the player that you're having a go at or strengthening the squad by providing competition for the pish player's place.

Andy74
23-11-2009, 01:21 PM
Its great to be 3rd but looking for better entertainment............ we dont create many chances and there is little goal mouth action. The difference between Yogi's Falkirk and Yogi's Hibs............ we've got Riordan who can come up with wonder goals

Then there's Stokes who scored a wonder goal at Ibrox and a cracker from nothing against St Johnstone and then Benji who has conjured up a couple of late winners. You've also got Zemmama who was on fire before injury.

Falkirk were probably the best footballing team in the league last season with virtually nothing though in the final third. We seem to have plenty in the fial third even if we're not totally hitting top form yet.

Doesn't seem a bad position to be in to me.

November is meant to be where we fall apart and yet we're into an 8 game unbeaten run with two home games coming up.

4 months or so into taking over a team who were dire for the last two years or so. That will do me for progress.

Part/Time Supporter
23-11-2009, 01:26 PM
We havent had that many good performanes this season, our best ws probbaly against Dundee Utd but just coudl take our chances. I think our league position reflects on the poor standard of the SPL.

Its great to be 3rd but looking for better entertainment............ we dont create many chances and there is little goal mouth action. The difference between Yogi's Falkirk and Yogi's Hibs............ we've got Riordan who can come up with wonder goals

When did Falkirk ever have a goals against record better than 1 per game?

2005/06 conceded 64 (1.68 per game)
2006/07 conceded 47 (1.23 per game)
2007/08 conceded 49 (1.29 per game)
2008/09 conceded 52 (1.37 per game)

Apart from that first season when they were newly promoted, they were reasonable(ish) defensively under him, but not as good as Hibs have been so far. Hibs would need to concede about 40 goals in the remaining 26 games (>1.5 per game) to concede that sort of number this season overall.

PaulSmith
23-11-2009, 01:32 PM
We havent had that many good performanes this season, our best ws probbaly against Dundee Utd but just coudl take our chances. I think our league position reflects on the poor standard of the SPL.

Its great to be 3rd but looking for better entertainment............ we dont create many chances and there is little goal mouth action. The difference between Yogi's Falkirk and Yogi's Hibs............ we've got Riordan who can come up with wonder goals

We're 3rd because we deserve to be 3rd rather than anything else. I'd argue that Motherwell, Dundee Utd and ourselves are much better this year for many a season.

Mentally and physically we're better equiped to deal with teams who will scrap and kick for every point, we don't fall apart when the conditions are awful like we once did. These were two of the biggest gripes on here week in and week out when Mowbray and Collins were managers, it's been addressed yet here we are 20 weeks into Hughes tenure as manager and some folk are still not happy.

I for one am totally content with where we are at present, fine well in the knowledge that even when it doesn't click we're strong and hard to beat. When it does click we're up there with the very best and as class is permanent then I expect it to happen more often than not. We will also strengthen again in January.

Hibbyradge
23-11-2009, 01:38 PM
It lets the player know they're in trouble and it reassures the fans that you've seen what they've seen and are dealing with it. This convinces said fans to carry on paying their money and thus funding the replacement of the player that you're having a go at or strengthening the squad by providing competition for the pish player's place.

The player will know he's "in trouble" when Yogi tells him in private.

Getting "stuck in to the players" in public, as the OP suggests, only serves to humiliate them and threaten their respect for the manager.

I'm not convinced that slagging players off in public would in anyway, encourage supporters to keep coming to matches.

What's more likely is the boo boys will take encouragement from the manager's comments and get stuck into their chosen whipping boy with extra gusto, now that their negativity has been justified by the manager.

I can hear them now. "Hey, Nish/Rankin/Benji, you're pish. Even your manager says you are. F off and don't come back."

Love the Green
23-11-2009, 01:40 PM
Poor all round show at Paisley and some players have not reached the hoped for standards.......

Both full backs provided nothing going forward..Murray never won a ball in the air.......rankin posted missing again...stokes shocking..nish waste of time...lucky to get a point but it keeps us up there and our unbeaten run extends...we need new players or an upturn in players performance is they can...

"keep the faith":wink:

Speedway
23-11-2009, 01:40 PM
The player will know he's "in trouble" when Yogi tells him in private.

Getting "stuck in to the players" in public, as the OP suggests, only serves to humiliate them and threaten their respect for the manager.

i'm not convinced that slagging players off in public would in anyway, encourage supporters to keep coming to matches.

What's more likely is the boo boys will take encouragement from the manager's comments and get stuck into their chosen whipping boy with extra gusto, now that their negativity has been justified by the manager.

I can hear them now. "Hey, Nish/Rankin/Benji, you're pish. Even your manager says you are. F off and don't come back."

Hard to argue with them if they cite the bit in bold.

Hibbyradge
23-11-2009, 01:45 PM
[
Hard to argue with them if they cite the bit in bold.

It's not about agreeing or not. Given that we're supposed to be supporters, should we not be encouraging our players?

Screaming abuse at them is entirely self defeating.

As is critisisng them in public.

Ferguson doesn't do it. Nor Wenger.

euro Hibby
23-11-2009, 01:55 PM
We are probably punching above our weight but lets not forget the last 2 or 3 games have been without zemmena who is our most gifted player.

Stokes did not play much for a couple of years but he has the ability but from time to time some minutes on the bench would maybe help.

We don't have the drive needed from the full back slots unless wetherspoon is in there but as we know he comes up short as a pure defender.

The weather was really crap which makes teams more equal. Maybe St mirren are also better than we think so a draw was OK and we remain on a good run.

As fans I think we press the panic button too often - we are third just and its early in the season and yes we still need to play better but that will come with perhaps a few changes in personnel over the league games. its a pity we don't have the reserve league as it would give others more of a chance to state their claim.

Good weekend all told - unbeaten, celtic losts as did Hearts and aberdeen got another player sent off. Scotland beat Australia at Rugby, we were slaughtered but the result counts and Andy Murray won at Tennis.

Shaba did not walk and long may he stay at swine castle.

I can't remember a better weekend for a while ?

Speedway
23-11-2009, 01:57 PM
It's not about agreeing or not. Given that we're supposed to be supporters, should we not be encouraging our players?

Screaming abuse at them is entirely self defeating.

As is critisisng them in public.

Ferguson doesn't do it. Nor Wenger.

Nope, I raised that exact same point after the cup exit against St Johnstone and was told that we do not support anything, we berate and moan and whinge because it's our money they're wasting and we are the club of the people. Any player who doesn't like it is a girl and shouldn't be in football.

It was at least a three pager and I lost the argument. Abuse and freedom to take out self loathing on the team, rules.

Hibbyradge
23-11-2009, 01:58 PM
Maybe St mirren are also better than we think so a draw was OK and we remain on a good run.



:agree:

Yogi rates them very highly and thinks they will be top 6 at the end of the season.

Hibercelona
23-11-2009, 02:18 PM
What position are we in the league again? It's just that, if the players were as bad as people are suggesting, then we would surely be a lot lower down the table.

Or is it frustration that a couple of better performances could have seen us in an even stronger position? There do seem to be a lot of half empty glasses around here.

I understand where you are coming from FR.

But with the quality we have in the squad, I truly believe we would be at the top of the table right now if we were at our very best.

We are only 3 points off top, and thats with us playing poorly.

I think some fans are just frustrated that players aren't fully pulling their weight, especially with the OF being so weak.

With the way this season is going, we should be pushing for the top IMO. (Even if it doesn't seem like a realistic possibility)

PaulSmith
23-11-2009, 02:34 PM
I understand where you are coming from FR.

But with the quality we have in the squad, I truly believe we would be at the top of the table right now if we were at our very best.

We are only 3 points off top, and thats with us playing poorly.

I think some fans are just frustrated that players aren't fully pulling their weight, especially with the OF being so weak.

With the way this season is going, we should be pushing for the top IMO. (Even if it doesn't seem like a realistic possibility)

Rubbish, if Rangers and Celtic played to their full potential they'd already be 10-12 points ahead of the pack.

Hermit Crab
23-11-2009, 02:53 PM
Yes he does need to get ripped into the players as there are still a few passengers in that team that just turn up and dont bother ther erse

Phil D. Rolls
23-11-2009, 02:55 PM
I understand where you are coming from FR.

But with the quality we have in the squad, I truly believe we would be at the top of the table right now if we were at our very best.

We are only 3 points off top, and thats with us playing poorly.

I think some fans are just frustrated that players aren't fully pulling their weight, especially with the OF being so weak.

With the way this season is going, we should be pushing for the top IMO. (Even if it doesn't seem like a realistic possibility)

The way I see it, it's about consistency. If our players were as good as we think they are they would produce good performances week in week out. It might be hard to take when see how good they can be.

Dashing Bob S
23-11-2009, 02:55 PM
He's the boss - he should be wielding the big stick, purely for the sadistic enjoyment it should give him.

Mmmm hmmm.

HFC 0-7
23-11-2009, 06:17 PM
The player will know he's "in trouble" when Yogi tells him in private.

Getting "stuck in to the players" in public, as the OP suggests, only serves to humiliate them and threaten their respect for the manager.

I'm not convinced that slagging players off in public would in anyway, encourage supporters to keep coming to matches.

What's more likely is the boo boys will take encouragement from the manager's comments and get stuck into their chosen whipping boy with extra gusto, now that their negativity has been justified by the manager.

I can hear them now. "Hey, Nish/Rankin/Benji, you're pish. Even your manager says you are. F off and don't come back."

When I say get stuck into them in public, I didnt mean single them out as I did say that he should be saying that the team didnt play well, not blaiming it on Irelands loss. The point I was making about him going off at Nish was that he did it to Nish but he has his favourites that he doesnt do it to, like Stokes.

I never said he should single anyone out, I was saying that he should be saying that the team didnt perform and make a deal out of it, make them team know that he isnt happy, and doing that in public is not out of place IMO, again, just to clarify, I was trying to make a point that when certain players dont perform he singles them out, but when others dont perform he blames it on other things. OK Stokes might be feeling it because of the way Ireland went out, but that doesnt explain his other performances.

PC Stamp
24-11-2009, 12:35 AM
When I say get stuck into them in public, I didnt mean single them out as I did say that he should be saying that the team didnt play well, not blaiming it on Irelands loss. The point I was making about him going off at Nish was that he did it to Nish but he has his favourites that he doesnt do it to, like Stokes.

I never said he should single anyone out, I was saying that he should be saying that the team didnt perform and make a deal out of it, make them team know that he isnt happy, and doing that in public is not out of place IMO, again, just to clarify, I was trying to make a point that when certain players dont perform he singles them out, but when others dont perform he blames it on other things. OK Stokes might be feeling it because of the way Ireland went out, but that doesnt explain his other performances.

Read the article and the quotes from Hughes as opposed to just taking in the attention seeking dramatic Daily ****** headline which rarely relates to the story. I see him saying he had to lift Miller & Stokes before the game, just as he'd had to do with Benji & Zouma the week before when Morocco went out.

I don't see him saying anywhere that it was to blame for our or their performance.

1875 NO 1
24-11-2009, 12:40 PM
We're 3rd because we deserve to be 3rd rather than anything else. I'd argue that Motherwell, Dundee Utd and ourselves are much better this year for many a season.

Mentally and physically we're better equiped to deal with teams who will scrap and kick for every point, we don't fall apart when the conditions are awful like we once did. These were two of the biggest gripes on here week in and week out when Mowbray and Collins were managers, it's been addressed yet here we are 20 weeks into Hughes tenure as manager and some folk are still not happy.

I for one am totally content with where we are at present, fine well in the knowledge that even when it doesn't click we're strong and hard to beat. When it does click we're up there with the very best and as class is permanent then I expect it to happen more often than not. We will also strengthen again in January.

It was poor finishing by St Mirren that cost them the game and the ref missing a blatant hand ball. Their 2 big centre forwards bullied Bamba and Murray and Thomson in the middle of the park was getting stuck into out midfield and we didnt have anybody in there to combat that.

Similar to the Hamilton and St Johnstone game where we filled to deal with their big forward and their agression in the middle of the park.

So, for me that issue of dealing with physical teams is still an issue. In SPL you cant always play silky fitba and have to be able to fight for the points.

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24-11-2009, 12:56 PM
Think we have a couple of players resting on their laurels who need a wake up call. Stokes for example has been relatively gash on the whole, but hasn't been dropped. Benji has been similarly under-par, but he's starting every week. I am by no means a fan of Nish, but there are others in the squad who are just as deserving of a game or so on the bench.


It's not about agreeing or not. Given that we're supposed to be supporters, should we not be encouraging our players?

Screaming abuse at them is entirely self defeating.

As is critisisng them in public.

Ferguson doesn't do it. Nor Wenger.


No sensible manager does.

Listening to Andy Robinson at Murrayfield after the Scotland-Fiji Rugby international, I noticed he very carefully accentuated all the positives, criticised no one, and expressed pleasure that the team had won their first game under his charge. No mention of anything negative (of which there was quite a lot) in the performance.

Then the director took us back to Inverdale and the summarisers, and the first thing Jerry Guscott said was, "It'll be a different story once he gets them back in the dressing-room."

That's how good coaches work - no adverse comments in public; of someone needs a rollicking, it's done man-to-man in private. Robinson got the payback against the Aussies; we will, too, in future games.

TWIW, I agree Yogi needs to gee some of the palyers up - I'm sure he's aware of this. I'd drop Stokes (though he can score from nothing) because I don't think he's fully fit; benji looks a bit lackadaisical (but then Zouma's hopefully back ion Saturday, and that'll probably cheer him up); Nish blows hot and cold, kind of...

So maybe it's time for Deek and Kurtis up front from the start?