World Tour Finals

[Sir David Gray]

Starts today from the O2 Arena in London.

First up is Andy Murray against Juan Martin Del Potro.

Fantastic start by Murray as he went into a 5-0 lead but Del Potro has just got one of the breaks back and it's now 5-2 on Del Potro's serve.

Roger Federer plays Fernando Verdasco later tonight.

Tomorrow, Rafael Nadal plays Robin Soderling, who came into the event after Andy Roddick withdrew. Then tomorrow night, Novak Djokovic plays Nikolay Davydenko.

[Sir David Gray]

Murray wins the first set 6-3. :thumbsup:

[Sir David Gray]

Murray won it in three sets. :thumbsup:

Del Potro levelled things up by taking the second set 6-3 but Murray stepped it up a gear and won the final set 6-2.

Great start to the tournament for him.

[Sir David Gray]

Roger Federer got off to a good start by defeating Fernando Verdasco in three sets.

Verdasco won the opening set 6-4 and was two points away from serving for the match in the second set, however Federer eventually came through and levelled it up by winning the second set 7-5.

The decider was a huge disappointment, at least from the point of view of Verdasco and his fans. Federer stormed through and eventually won 4-6 7-5 6-1.

He now sits top of Group A alongside Andy Murray and the two of them meet on Tuesday night.

[Sir David Gray]

Biggest shock of the tournament so far with Robin Soderling defeating Rafael Nadal 6-4 6-4 today.

If I'm being honest, it didn't surprise me all that much as Soderling has been in very impressive form this year and also became the first man to beat Nadal at the French Open in May.

Nikolay Davydenko won the first set, 6-3, against Novak Djokovic and it's current 5-4 to the Serbian in the second set.

[Sir David Gray]

Novak Djokovic eventually won last night, defeating Nikolay Davydenko 3-6 6-4 7-5.

In today's action, Juan Martin Del Potro won his first match of the tournament by beating Fernando Verdasco 6-4 3-6 7-6. Verdasco must now beat Andy Murray in the final group match, to have any chance of qualifying for the semi finals.

Andy Murray lost to Roger Federer tonight, despite winning the first set. Federer recovered by playing some fantastic tennis and eventually won 3-6 6-3 6-1.

Murray must now beat Verdasco and hope that Federer beats Del Potro in the last round of group matches to guarantee his qualification.

[Ed De Gramo]

Novak Djokovic eventually won last night, defeating Nikolay Davydenko 3-6 6-4 7-5.

In today's action, Juan Martin Del Potro won his first match of the tournament by beating Fernando Verdasco 6-4 3-6 7-6. Verdasco must now beat Andy Murray in the final group match, to have any chance of qualifying for the semi finals.

Andy Murray lost to Roger Federer tonight, despite winning the first set. Federer recovered by playing some fantastic tennis and eventually won 3-6 6-3 6-1.

Murray must now beat Verdasco and hope that Federer beats Del Potro in the last round of group matches to guarantee his qualification.

Maybe it's just me but I find this style of Tennis much better....imagine Wimbledon with group stages...whilst it would be weird to get used to...it would be fantastic IMO

[Wilson]

Murray must now beat Verdasco and hope that Federer beats Del Potro in the last round of group matches to guarantee his qualification.

What happens if Murray beats Verdasco and Del Potro beats Fed? Does Murray go through because he beat Del Potro in their match?

[Sir David Gray]

What happens if Murray beats Verdasco and Del Potro beats Fed? Does Murray go through because he beat Del Potro in their match?

As things stand just now the group is;

1-Federer W-2 L-0 SETS WON-4 SETS LOST-2 GAMES DIFFERENCE:+10
2-Murray W-1 L-1 SETS WON-3 SETS LOST-3 GAMES DIFFERENCE:-1
3-Del Potro W-1 L-1 SETS WON-3 SETS LOST-3 GAMES DIFFERENCE:-4
4-Verdasco W-0 L-2 SETS WON-2 SETS LOST-4 GAMES DIFFERENCE:-5

If your set of results actually happen then it would mean that Federer, Murray and Del Potro would all have won two matches and lost one. By looking at the rules page on the tournament, it looks as if it would first of all be decided by who had won the highest percentage of sets and then by who had won the highest percentage of games.

It would be hard to tell at this stage as to what might happen as it really all depends on how much Murray beats Verdasco by and how much Del Potro beats Federer by.

However, I think it's almost safe to say that if Murray beats Verdasco tomorrow, he will almost certainly qualify.

Famous last words... :greengrin

[Sir David Gray]

one set all between Murray and Verdasco.

Even if Murray wins the final set and subsequently wins the match, he is no longer guaranteed a place in the semi finals.

If Del Potro goes on to beat Federer in straight sets tonight, Murray will be out.

[Golden Bear]

one set all between Murray and Verdasco.

Even if Murray wins the final set and subsequently wins the match, he is no longer guaranteed a place in the semi finals.

If Del Potro goes on to beat Federer in straight sets tonight, Murray will be out.


Is it not the case that if Del Potro beats Federer in straight sets then Federer will go out, so Del Potro and Murray will progress to the semis?

However if Del Potro beats Federer by two sets to one then there will be a good chance that Murray will go out. (I think!)

I get the impression that Murray doesn't have the same fire power as his opponents and his style of play is often reliant on the other guys making mistakes.

I'm not a huge tennis fan but the arena seems to have created a fantastic atmosphere and I'm thoroughly enjoying this particular tournament.

[Sir David Gray]

Is it not the case that if Del Potro beats Federer in straight sets then Federer will go out, so Del Potro and Murray will progress to the semis?

However if Del Potro beats Federer by two sets to one then there will be a good chance that Murray will go out. (I think!)

I get the impression that Murray doesn't have the same fire power as his opponents and his style of play is often reliant on the other guys making mistakes.

I'm not a huge tennis fan but the arena seems to have created a fantastic atmosphere and I'm thoroughly enjoying this particular tournament.

:agree: I'm talking nonsense.

Now that it's 6-2 6-7 4-3 to Del Potro, the only way that Murray won't qualify is if Del Potro wins the final set 6-3. If Federer wins one more game, even if he ends up losing the set and match, Federer and Murray will go through.

[Sir David Gray]

5-3 to Del Potro.

If Del Potro holds his serve in the next game, Murray is out.

[Sir David Gray]

6-3 Del Potro

Murray is out of the tournament. :boo hoo:

['Mon the Hibs]

I really think Federer has something against Murray.

How much did he throw away these last two games.

I have no doubt that the players knew what was needed etc. I'm sure if the commentators, or even you or I, can work it out, then i'm pretty sure it will have clicked in the crowd and the coaches, as well as the players.

Del Potro's weeknesses were exposed yet again- he's just not fit enough at this stage in his career. And he's a lucky git :greengrin

Murray's was exposed again- doesn't have the bottle sometimes. Once he wins a grandslam (or has the belief to win one) next year, he'll win multiple titles.

Murray should have put Verdasco to bed early. Verdasco is a good player but so inconsistant- as is everyone outside the top 4 or 5.

Next year is Murrays year :thumbsup: (spoken like a true Hibee :wink: )

[PC Stamp]

What a bollox way to decide who goes through. Why not keep it simple and decide it on the much simpler head to head result between Murray & Del Potro when they ended up tied on points?

[H18sry]

Federer is a cheating bassa :agree: that 2nd last game when he served 2 double faults in a row proves it :grr:

['Mon the Hibs]

What a bollox way to decide who goes through. Why not keep it simple and decide it on the much simpler head to head result between Murray & Del Potro when they ended up tied on points?

Murray, Federer and De Potro all ended up with the same points- all won 2 and lost 1. AM beat JMDP, RF beat AM and JMDP beat RF.

The all had won 5 sets and lost 5 sets, so it came down to games difference (like goal difference).

RF- 44-40 = +4 games
JMDP - 45-43 = +2 games
AM- 44-43 = +1 game

Had JMDP lost 1 extra game with his match with RF last night, AM would have gone through as both would have been on +1 game, but AM with better head-to-head with JMDP.

:wink:

Murray pi$$ed his chips against Verdasco. He had 6 or 7 break points, including a couple of match points iirc against Verdasco in the 2nd set, but he played some silly shots :grr:

Murray was also up 5-0 against Del Potro in the 1st set and serving for it at 5-1, but won 6-3. In a competition like this, where every game counts, AM had his chances, but blew it (again)

[Danderhall Hibs]

Federer is a cheating bassa :agree: that 2nd last game when he served 2 double faults in a row proves it :grr:

Gillette should drop him and Henry from their advertising.

Can the Scottish Government ask for a re-match?

[Wilson]

6-3 Del Potro

Murray is out of the tournament. :boo hoo:

He has been disappointing since coming back from his wrist injury. He didn't quite reach the performance levels he was hitting earlier in the season.

I think there is something going on mentally with him as well. He seemed to have more joy against Federer when he had no right to. Now he is expected to match up better with him, and is defending a winning head to head record, he doesn't seem to be able to raise his game enough. Go figure.

I hope this tournament has taught Murray that he will need to be more aggressive next year. Counter-punching against top players and waiting for their mistakes is doing things the hard way.

[JimBHibees]

I really think Federer has something against Murray.

How much did he throw away these last two games.

I have no doubt that the players knew what was needed etc. I'm sure if the commentators, or even you or I, can work it out, then i'm pretty sure it will have clicked in the crowd and the coaches, as well as the players.

Del Potro's weeknesses were exposed yet again- he's just not fit enough at this stage in his career. And he's a lucky git :greengrin

Murray's was exposed again- doesn't have the bottle sometimes. Once he wins a grandslam (or has the belief to win one) next year, he'll win multiple titles.

Murray should have put Verdasco to bed early. Verdasco is a good player but so inconsistant- as is everyone outside the top 4 or 5.

Next year is Murrays year :thumbsup: (spoken like a true Hibee :wink: )

Totally agree thought Federer deliberately blew that service game. Absolute certain the players knew exactly what was required though the commentators seemed to indicate they didnt more to do IMO with how dodgy it looked. Head to head would have made much more sense.

Not sure how you can say Del Potro has a physical weakness after beating Federer in US open in 5 sets.

Murray isnt playing that well at the moment but still competitive however overall an excellent season bar a couple of disappointments at Aus and US and hopefully he can get his 1st major.

[PC Stamp]

Murray, Federer and De Potro all ended up with the same points- all won 2 and lost 1. AM beat JMDP, RF beat AM and JMDP beat RF.

The all had won 5 sets and lost 5 sets, so it came down to games difference (like goal difference).

RF- 44-40 = +4 games
JMDP - 45-43 = +2 games
AM- 44-43 = +1 game

Had JMDP lost 1 extra game with his match with RF last night, AM would have gone through as both would have been on +1 game, but AM with better head-to-head with JMDP.

:wink:

Murray pi$$ed his chips against Verdasco. He had 6 or 7 break points, including a couple of match points iirc against Verdasco in the 2nd set, but he played some silly shots :grr:

Murray was also up 5-0 against Del Potro in the 1st set and serving for it at 5-1, but won 6-3. In a competition like this, where every game counts, AM had his chances, but blew it (again)


Accept all that BUT the straight head to head as the first deciding factor would have left no avenues open for any potential or alleged shinky shenanigans such as Federer double faulting twice in a row. :wink:

['Mon the Hibs]

Not sure how you can say Del Potro has a physical weakness after beating Federer in US open in 5 sets.

Murray isnt playing that well at the moment but still competitive however overall an excellent season bar a couple of disappointments at Aus and US and hopefully he can get his 1st major.

The run he had in US Open was excellent, but the tournament after, he was completely nackered. In some tournaments, he does look out at see in a 3rd set- though this maybe his demenour when he knows he's going to lose. He will be some player in the next couple of years :agree:

And, yes, Murray has had a very good, and underrated, year. Reaching no 2, winning 6 events, including 2 masters titles (and 1 runner up), 4 other titles (including Queens), SF of Wimbledon, QF of French (and improvemnets on Clay altogether), 4R of other two majors (He carried an injury for the US Open).

Next year, we'll see further improvements.


Accept all that BUT the straight head to head as the first deciding factor would have left no avenues open for any potential or alleged shinky shenanigans such as Federer double faulting twice in a row. :wink:

The head to head thing confuses me as they either beat or lost to each other. JMDP beat RF, so should top the group. BUT, AM beat JMDP, so he should top the group, BUT, RF beat AM, so RF should top the group.... :faint:

Maybe, the should have done alphabetically with their 1st name :greengrin

One things' for sure.... the men's gamne is in great hands.... Murray, Federer, Del Potro, Nadal, Djokovic, Roddick, Davydenko and others there or there abouts... :thumbsup:

[Sir David Gray]

What a farce that turned out to be last night.

I've just seen this morning that it took TEN minutes, after Del Potro had won, for the tournament officials to confirm that he and Federer were through and Murray was out.

I had it all worked out, as had the commentators on Sky, about midway throught the third set. I knew that Federer had to win at least four games in that set for Murray to qualify, any less than that and Murray was out.

Murray won 44 of his 87 games throughout his three matches. A simple bit of arithmetic would tell you that is a games won percentage of 50.57%.

Del Potro won 45 of his 88 games throughout his three matches. Again, a simple bit of arithmetic would tell you that is a games won percentage of 51.13%.

In terms of how the placings were worked out, if it had only been two players who were tied, then they would have decided it on the head-to-head result between them. However it was three players who had won two and lost one so that's why it was sorted out by the percentage of games won.

I agree that Murray had chances to do better than he did. For a start, he should have won the first set against Del Potro by more than 6-3 as he was 5-0 up.

It's been a good year for Murray but it could have been better, particularly in the Majors. He was well beaten by Roddick at Wimbledon and was absolutely hammered by Marin Cilic at the US Open. I think he needs to develop a more attacking style as his defensive game has been his downfall on quite a few occasions this year, when he's played in the big matches. He also must improve his serve. His first serve percentage is not good enough and his second serve is so weak that it's easily dealt with by the top players.

Hopefully he will go away now and have a bit of a rest for a few weeks before resuming his training in time for the start of next season, in January.

[JimBHibees]

What a farce that turned out to be last night.

I've just seen this morning that it took TEN minutes, after Del Potro had won, for the tournament officials to confirm that he and Federer were through and Murray was out.

I had it all worked out, as had the commentators on Sky, about midway throught the third set. I knew that Federer had to win at least four games in that set for Murray to qualify, any less than that and Murray was out.

Murray won 44 of his 87 games throughout his three matches. A simple bit of arithmetic would tell you that is a games won percentage of 50.57%.

Del Potro won 45 of his 88 games throughout his three matches. Again, a simple bit of arithmetic would tell you that is a games won percentage of 51.13%.

In terms of how the placings were worked out, if it had only been two players who were tied, then they would have decided it on the head-to-head result between them. However it was three players who had won two and lost one so that's why it was sorted out by the percentage of games won.

I agree that Murray had chances to do better than he did. For a start, he should have won the first set against Del Potro by more than 6-3 as he was 5-0 up.

It's been a good year for Murray but it could have been better, particularly in the Majors. He was well beaten by Roddick at Wimbledon and was absolutely hammered by Marin Cilic at the US Open. I think he needs to develop a more attacking style as his defensive game has been his downfall on quite a few occasions this year, when he's played in the big matches. He also must improve his serve. His first serve percentage is not good enough and his second serve is so weak that it's easily dealt with by the top players.

Hopefully he will go away now and have a bit of a rest for a few weeks before resuming his training in time for the start of next season, in January.

He wasnt well beaten by Roddick, very tight game which came down to 1 or 2points overall. Against Cilic he was clearly injured as you could see he was having problems with his wrist. Wouldnt disagree with your other points about his game however even with that he is still one of the best in the world. Small improvements in the areas you suggest would IMO see him win a coveted major next year.

[Sir David Gray]

He wasnt well beaten by Roddick, very tight game which came down to 1 or 2points overall. Against Cilic he was clearly injured as you could see he was having problems with his wrist. Wouldnt disagree with your other points about his game however even with that he is still one of the best in the world. Small improvements in the areas you suggest would IMO see him win a coveted major next year.

I was probably a bit unfair with regards to the Cilic match, you're right in that he was struggling with a wrist injury. However I thought that against Roddick at Wimbledon, he was far too passive and Roddick got his tactics spot on as he knew how Murray was going to approach the match.

In saying all that, I think it's right that I also point out that I accept it must be hard to be at the centre of attention for two whole weeks, like he is at Wimbledon, with no other British player there to share some of the pressure.