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Mag7
21-11-2009, 02:52 PM
http://sport.scotsman.com/hibernianfc/Chic-Charnley-slams-old-boss.5846218.jp

Sorry Chic but that was Duffy's team who went down. Duffy only just avoided relegation the season before and despite a good start the next season the freefall was well under way before McLeish arrived. In fact McLeish made a reasonable stab at keeping us up but it was too late. If he'd come in at the start of the year he might just have managed it, but mid February was too late.

Overall, McLeish did a great job at Hibs, cruising the First Division, bringing in some wonderful players, taking us to third spot, a Scottish Cup final, a European spot and.....a certain win over our city neighbours. Things were looking iffy when he left, but who's to say he wouldn't have turned it around?

Phil D. Rolls
21-11-2009, 02:55 PM
http://sport.scotsman.com/hibernianfc/Chic-Charnley-slams-old-boss.5846218.jp

Sorry Chic but that was Duffy's team who went down. Duffy only just avoided relegation the season before and despite a good start the next season the freefall was well under way before McLeish arrived. In fact McLeish made a reasonable stab at keeping us up but it was too late. If he'd come in at the start of the year he might just have managed it, but mid February was too late.

Overall, McLeish did a great job at Hibs, cruising the First Division, bringing in some wonderful players, taking us to third spot, a Scottish Cup final, a European spot and.....a certain win over our city neighbours. Things were looking iffy when he left, but who's to say he wouldn't have turned it around?

Is McLeish lucky, or does he have the sense to make the right moves at the right time? I think he is nothing like as good a boss as he makes out.

At the same time Chico may have an axe to grind as one of McLeish's first acts as Hibs boss was to sack Charnley. A player who (IMO) epitomised how low we had sunk under Duffy, unprofessional and inconsistent. (Can I add, he was actually a very nice guy and was lovely towards the kids on the FF at the time).

Keith_M
21-11-2009, 06:03 PM
His comments are no surprise, as Duffy was his bestest mate.


FWIW, I still think McLeish's a decent manager.


But then what do I know, I thought Alex Miller wasn't that bad either :wink:


:duck:

ScottB
21-11-2009, 06:16 PM
Is McLeish lucky, or does he have the sense to make the right moves at the right time? I think he is nothing like as good a boss as he makes out.

At the same time Chico may have an axe to grind as one of McLeish's first acts as Hibs boss was to sack Charnley. A player who (IMO) epitomised how low we had sunk under Duffy, unprofessional and inconsistent. (Can I add, he was actually a very nice guy and was lovely towards the kids on the FF at the time).

I think he's pretty good, but for about 2 - 3 seasons max, then results go South and he runs out of answers, for example his last 2 half seasons with us we were utter dire in terms of wins, his Rangers side went South etc as well. However, he starts very well as said.

Phil D. Rolls
21-11-2009, 06:20 PM
I think he's pretty good, but for about 2 - 3 seasons max, then results go South and he runs out of answers, for example his last 2 half seasons with us we were utter dire in terms of wins, his Rangers side went South etc as well. However, he starts very well as said.

He's usually inherited someone else's squad.

--------
21-11-2009, 06:37 PM
He's usually inherited someone else's squad.


He built a decent squad at ER, after having to empty a huge amount of dross signed by Duff Jimmy - Elliot, McQuilken, Power, Tosh..... I won't go on - if I do, I'll just start to cry.

But - the trouble is that he only got the good signings by signing up a whole lot of rubbish as well, and he put us deep in the red to do it. I also think he released some good players too early - Lovell was one, Yogi?

Eck does OK as long as he has a nice thick wallet to spread the readies around. I couldn't see him doing what Mowbray did in HIS first season, or what Yogi's done this year. I'm not sure of his judgement of a footballer, and as said already I feel he runs out of ideas and impetus after a couple of years.

But it WAS Duff Jimmy's team that went down - credit to Eck for keeping the issue alive as long as he did.

Chic needs to look at himself before he starts on other people. :bitchy:

Gregor
21-11-2009, 06:41 PM
He's usually inherited someone else's squad.

Perhaps - but in the case of Duffy's players - not really the sort of squad of players you'd care to inherit. Although Eck still managed to get 12 points out of 12 games, it sadly wasn't enough as Duffy had only got 18 points out of the other 24 ; 12 of which he got in the first 7 games before it all fell apart following the 3-4 game at home to the Orcs. That amounts to 6 points in 17 games. Can't really understand why the Board didn't act sooner ; that's a shocking trend of results. He should have gone in November after 7 defeats in a row.

I mind the first thing Eck did was hoik the Icelandic buffoon (who'd subsequently been reinstalled at the expense of Chris Reid) and replace him with a proper goalie. Sadly, while Gunn's efforts kept us within a baw-hair of staying up, we struggled in front of goal - not surprising with only the likes of Lavety, Tosh (ha!) and Crawford to call upon.

Gregor
21-11-2009, 06:44 PM
Lovell was one, Yogi?

Archie decided to move on. I think there were issues with his knee and such we only offerred him a single year. Livi gave him more. Eck wanted to keep him, but the club didn't feel inclined to splash the cash.

Yogi, I think was also looking for security in the terms of a longer deal. He got that at Ayr. Same for Pat as well.

woodythehibee
21-11-2009, 07:46 PM
McLeish done well for us. Just because we had a bigger budget than other Div 1 teams we still needed a manager to get the best out of the squad. Just look at Real Madrid to see that you can have a great squad without getting silverware...

Chic certainly does not hold back in the article

AFKA5814_Hibs
21-11-2009, 07:48 PM
Chico's been on the buckie. :faf:

I think WE (the fans) all know who was responsible for Hibs being relegated that season.

--------
21-11-2009, 08:08 PM
Archie decided to move on. I think there were issues with his knee and such we only offerred him a single year. Livi gave him more. Eck wanted to keep him, but the club didn't feel inclined to splash the cash.

Yogi, I think was also looking for security in the terms of a longer deal. He got that at Ayr. Same for Pat as well.


Ah. Ta. :wink:

renato
21-11-2009, 09:21 PM
Archie decided to move on. I think there were issues with his knee and such we only offerred him a single year. Livi gave him more. Eck wanted to keep him, but the club didn't feel inclined to splash the cash.

Yogi, I think was also looking for security in the terms of a longer deal. He got that at Ayr. Same for Pat as well.

Perhaps the reason Archie left was because McLeish didn't rate him.

Alex did not see eye to eye with Stuart and gave him a hard time of it. Which is a shame, as he was a very good player who went on to play really well for Livi, most notably a few times against us!

Back on topic, Alex was a decent manager for us as he had a fair amount of cash to spend. Time will tell but I'm sure Yogi will prove to be a better manager than him. Imagine Yogi managing a team with the likes of Laursen, Sauzee, Latapy, Zitelli et all..... :drool:

Steve-O
22-11-2009, 12:06 AM
Nonsense from Charnley.

He maybe has a point McLeish has got a bit lucky as he is generally a 1-2 season wonder at every club, but he had very little chance of keeping us up that season with pish squad at his disposal. By that point Charnely was garbage. In fact after about 6 weeks Charnley was garbage, all he did was chip the ball down in the corners and nothing else, barely moved out of the centre circle!

What was McLeish's record in that last part of that season? All I remember is an unlucky defeat to Rangers, the win against Hearts, a draw at Dunfermline and that game v Dundee Utd...?

rainman
22-11-2009, 08:11 AM
Utter dross from an idiot of a man.

A cheeky chappy who the fans love but let's be honest, he's a moron.

He didn't help his cause by not turning up for McLeish's first 2 training sessions?

Thinking back to how we all felt when McLeish took over, we were in deep doo doo and needed everybody at the club to be pulling in the right direction. He wasn't turning up for training and had been anonymous for months. Now he's got the cheek to blame McLeish for us going down.

The comments underneath the article are interesting.

"Big Eck, the player, 77 Caps,1 Cup winners Cup, 3 League Titles, 5 Scottish Cups, 2 Scottish League Cups.

Big Eck, the manager,1 First Division, 2 SPL, 2 Scottish Cups, 3 League Cups.

Chic Charnley, the player, sod all."

Dibben
22-11-2009, 08:42 AM
What was McLeish's record in that last part of that season? All I remember is an unlucky defeat to Rangers, the win against Hearts, a draw at Dunfermline and that game v Dundee Utd...?

Kilmarnock 1 Hibernian 1
MAY 9: Bell's Scottish Premier at Rugby Park. (More)

Hibernian 1 Dundee United 2
MAY 2: Bell's Scottish Premier at Easter Road. (More)

Celtic 0 Hibernian 0
APRIL 25: Bell's Scottish Premier at Parkhead. (More)

Dunfermline 1 Hibs 1
APRIL 18: Bell's Scottish Premier at East End Park. (More)

Hibernian 2 Hearts 1
APRIL 11: Bell's Scottish Premier at Easter Road. (More)

Rangers 3 Hibernian 0
APRIL 1: Bell's Scottish Premier at Ibrox. (More)

Hibernian 1 Aberdeen 1.
MARCH 28: Bell's Scottish Premier at Easter Road. (More)

Hibernian 1 Motherwell 0
MARCH 21: Bell's Scottish Premier at Easter Road. (More)

St Johnstone 1 Hibernian 1
MARCH 14: Bell's Scottish Premier at McDiarmid Park. (More)

Hibernian 0 Celtic 1
FEBRUARY 28: Bell's Scottish Premier at Easter Road. (More)

Dundee Utd 1 Hibernian 1
FEBRUARY 24: Bell's Scottish Premier at Tannadice Park. (More)

Hibernian 1 Rangers 2
FEBRUARY 21: Bell's Scottish Premier at Easter Road


6 draws
2 wins
4 defeats

BH.

Phil D. Rolls
22-11-2009, 12:53 PM
He built a decent squad at ER, after having to empty a huge amount of dross signed by Duff Jimmy - Elliot, McQuilken, Power, Tosh..... I won't go on - if I do, I'll just start to cry.

But - the trouble is that he only got the good signings by signing up a whole lot of rubbish as well, and he put us deep in the red to do it. I also think he released some good players too early - Lovell was one, Yogi?

Eck does OK as long as he has a nice thick wallet to spread the readies around. I couldn't see him doing what Mowbray did in HIS first season, or what Yogi's done this year. I'm not sure of his judgement of a footballer, and as said already I feel he runs out of ideas and impetus after a couple of years.

But it WAS Duff Jimmy's team that went down - credit to Eck for keeping the issue alive as long as he did.

Chic needs to look at himself before he starts on other people. :bitchy:

The classic piece of evidence to demonstrate Eck's luck is the Sauzee/Latapy scenario. Both players were recommended to him by other players McLeish had in his squad (Marinkov/Rougier). Fair play, at least he listened - but once those two were at ER, Eck didn't have to do much to sort out tactics or anything else, you just go along with geniuses like those.

NORTHERNHIBBY
22-11-2009, 05:57 PM
The whole Duff Jimmy era makes me cringe to be honest. Right from the start when he was flown in by helicopter, those torturous play-off trapdoor games with Airdrie, and most of all, the list of journeymen hackers and ex-Dundee misfits that he brought to ER. I guess that in the same way as Craig Burley last week, if you are on the fringes of the game and need to make a media splash you need to let rip, whether the argument stands up to scrutiny or not. What I find most laughable however, is that Cheeky-Chico is portraying McLeish as a Manager with little talent who in his opionion, has gone on to make that little talent go a long with albeit with the good fortune of being very lucky. I for one, would argue that Charnley is better placed to comment on the talented individual, that did nothing with it. The truly gifted footballer that lacked the application and courage to let his abilities take him to the top. The washed-up could have been that rather than sitting comfy with a chest full of medals and career full of memories, is hawking paper-back tat.

The Baldmans Comb
22-11-2009, 09:32 PM
The story is little to do with Mcleish or Duffy or even Charnley but everything to do with trying to get a wee desperate bit of publicity by mentioning someone with a Rangers connection in order to get a cheap headline.

'Celtic supporter accuses ex Ranger manager of being plain lucky'.

Even Charnley can't believe such tripe especially concerning Duffy.

Arch Stanton
22-11-2009, 09:59 PM
Perhaps the reason Archie left was because McLeish didn't rate him.

Alex did not see eye to eye with Stuart and gave him a hard time of it. Which is a shame, as he was a very good player who went on to play really well for Livi, most notably a few times against us!


I never understood why Eck persevered with Lovell as a wingback since he was clearly rubbish at it. It was quite surprising when he turned into a such a good CM with Livi.

I always wondered how come Eck couldn't have recognised his talent however - that would seem to be a pretty core requirement for the job I mean, evaluating talent.

jodjam
22-11-2009, 10:14 PM
Kilmarnock 1 Hibernian 1
MAY 9: Bell's Scottish Premier at Rugby Park. (More)

Hibernian 1 Dundee United 2
MAY 2: Bell's Scottish Premier at Easter Road. (More)

Celtic 0 Hibernian 0
APRIL 25: Bell's Scottish Premier at Parkhead. (More)

Dunfermline 1 Hibs 1
APRIL 18: Bell's Scottish Premier at East End Park. (More)

Hibernian 2 Hearts 1
APRIL 11: Bell's Scottish Premier at Easter Road. (More)

Rangers 3 Hibernian 0
APRIL 1: Bell's Scottish Premier at Ibrox. (More)

Hibernian 1 Aberdeen 1.
MARCH 28: Bell's Scottish Premier at Easter Road. (More)

Hibernian 1 Motherwell 0
MARCH 21: Bell's Scottish Premier at Easter Road. (More)

St Johnstone 1 Hibernian 1
MARCH 14: Bell's Scottish Premier at McDiarmid Park. (More)

Hibernian 0 Celtic 1
FEBRUARY 28: Bell's Scottish Premier at Easter Road. (More)

Dundee Utd 1 Hibernian 1
FEBRUARY 24: Bell's Scottish Premier at Tannadice Park. (More)

Hibernian 1 Rangers 2
FEBRUARY 21: Bell's Scottish Premier at Easter Road


6 draws
2 wins
4 defeats

BH.

I remember a quote in paper not long after McLeish left in November and we had won about 5 games the whole calendar year. Not really the form that gets you a move to the Huns.

Mate is a season ticket holder at Well and he was delighted when we "took him of their hands"

Steve-O
23-11-2009, 06:49 AM
I remember a quote in paper not long after McLeish left in November and we had won about 5 games the whole calendar year. Not really the form that gets you a move to the Huns.

Mate is a season ticket holder at Well and he was delighted when we "took him of their hands"

We were going downhill when he left, no doubt. As soon as the AEK game was over, we really lost the plot, probably until Mowbray showed up nearly 3 years later!

That record posted above wasn't that bad considering we were getting pished all over before he came. Other than the 3-0 defeat at Ibrox never lost a game by more than 1 goal and beat Hearts and drew with Celtic away.

Probably a good thing in the long run that we went down though to be fair.

Peevemor
23-11-2009, 06:54 AM
We were going downhill when he left, no doubt. As soon as the AEK game was over, we really lost the plot, probably until Mowbray showed up nearly 3 years later!

That record posted above wasn't that bad considering we were getting pished all over before he came. Other than the 3-0 defeat at Ibrox never lost a game by more than 1 goal and beat Hearts and drew with Celtic away.

Probably a good thing in the long run that we went down though to be fair.

I would say well before.

Steve-O
23-11-2009, 07:01 AM
I would say well before.

Well maybe, but we played pretty well that night.

rainman
23-11-2009, 07:07 AM
I remember a quote in paper not long after McLeish left in November and we had won about 5 games the whole calendar year. Not really the form that gets you a move to the Huns.

Mate is a season ticket holder at Well and he was delighted when we "took him of their hands"

Not sure why they'd be delighted about it.

I don't know when the last time was they finished second and split the old firm before McLeish did it with them and very much doubt it'll ever happen again.

Mcleish is a good manager. What he did at hibs was impressive and gave us the best team i had ever seen in my lifetime. Our derby record in that time was great.

Taking Motherwell to second, qualifying for Europe and splitting the old firm was no mean feat.

His record at Rangers is impressive because Martin O'Neill's Celtic were an excellent team at the time and could've won all trophies available if Rangers hadn't put up a good fight. His derby record here was also excellent.

He got Scotland playing again, won some decent matches and was ultimately unlucky to have been drawn in such a hard group.

He's now taken Birmingham straight back into the Premiership which is not an easy thing to do.